sumtingwong

Fucking parasites

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Late to this party regarding boat owner expectations, took me a while to find my sock puppet login (and enough booze to make me write this) because I sure as fuck am not posting this under my normal account.  But this shit has been on my mind for years and there are a few other posts recently that triggered me and I know for a fact many other boat owners feel the same but no one wants to say it.

For a weekend warrior program without professionals onboard the fact that traditionally (at least in the U.S.) a boat owner is expected to cover all costs for the crew, including travel, food, beer, dinner afterwards,  shackles, winch handles and all the other shit that some fucking idiot lost overboard or breaks because they were careless is bullshit, plain and simple.  Tell me what other amateur team sport expects this? 

Not talking about pro teams or millionaire boat owners here, just weekend warrior guys who are blessed with a job that pays enough to buy a boat and all the expenses that go along with it.  If you drop a winch handle overboard or a shackle because you were just careless and I'm buying dinners, booze, sails, new lines, updating the electronics and oh yeah almost forgot THE ENTIRE COST OF THE FUCKING BOAT ITSELF to begin with would it really kill you to spend 30 fucking dollars as a show of appreciation for the shit you carelessly lost?

I do it because it's traditionally what's expected and for the most part I enjoy buying the crew dinner, drinks and maintaining the boat.  Although you would never guess it from this drunken rant of a post, I actually do enjoy spending time with the crew.  As a matter of fact the crew is probably the biggest reason why I do it, love hanging out with those fucking parasites.  Well, there's that one guy that drives me fucking crazy but that's a story for the next drunk post.  But just because I can afford a boat doesn't mean I can afford to pay for an entire boat of fucking parasites leeching off my bank account.  I have no problem spending more time than anyone who doesn't own a boat would ever understand just to get the fucking boat ready, paying for the sails, getting the bottom cleaned and all the other shit that goes along with owning the boat.  My boat, my responsibility, I get it and I'm ok with that.  But if I'm providing a very nice boat that's very well equipped and maintained in top shape to race it seems like the least the crew of parasites can do is buy the owner a fucking dinner or bring some fucking booze so I don't have to buy it for you. A crew of 4 to 8, what would that cost?  $6 each to buy the owner a measly fucking dinner instead of the owner spending around $200-$300 for dinner and drinks?   Yeah yeah yeah, I get all the "glory" of the fucking pickle dish and my name on the internet for a weekend if we win.  What-fucking-ever, if you pay the fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars for the boat maintenance I'll gladly put your name down as the owner and give you the fucking pickle dish even if I'm still paying for the boat.

Again, this is about normal guys with a decent income who can afford a race boat but don't have money to burn.  Not talking about professional boats or multimillionaire boat owners who can afford to piss money into the wind. Also, love my crew, love sailing with them and I don't blame them for the bullshit traditions and expectations that have been in place for years, even if they are a bunch of fucking parasites.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Treat this corrosive feeling of frustration you have as a sign you should replace your crew.

IMG_20191109_170438.jpg

Lol.  Problem is as much as they piss me off somehow I've grown attached to them.  Except for that one asshole who shows up late, never responds to emails and gives me attitude.  But holy shit that fucker can get a kite down in any conditions.  Maybe it would be easier to just start a tennis team.

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4 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

You must sail on some really shit boat if winch handles only cost $30 to replace.

Hey man, stop bringing the truth into the conversation!  Late entry edit:  $30 for a fucking shackle and $100 for a god damn winch handle. 

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You seem upset... Seriously though, I don’t get that you have to stump up for booze and dinners as well as the rest. 

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from your post you sound like you're from the USA. I am not and feel your pain, but for slightly different reasons.

You guys certainly have a weird 'tradition' of what the owner should pay for.

In any case, why didn't you post in the pay for play thread ?

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31 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

from your post you sound like you're from the USA. I am not and feel your pain, but for slightly different reasons.

If crew from the US maybe they get easily bemuddled and confused?

IMG_20191109_053526.jpg.a1ad293062b606a84af27e9d2a916c68.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

You guys certainly have a weird 'tradition' of what the owner should pay for.

That's what jumps out at me as well.

As background - I've raced my 37 ft family crusier around the cans a few times, but mainly crew on other peoples boats - because theirs are faster than mine.

As an owner, finding crew is a pain in the arse. Boat I crewed for the most had a crew manager who did this (but we won lots of shit, so people liked coming out with us).

As crew, we had it as a point of pride to be first to the bar to stand a round for the crew. It was rare for the owner to pay - when he did it was to celebrate winning something of note. Owner picked up all the boat bills, to the point that as crew we could put stuff on his account if we figured it was needed.

The core crew had areas of maintainance they were responsible for - I rebuilt all the jammers, and replaced a couple out of my pocket -bowman stripped the sheets and rinsed them - nav looked after computer and software etc. (The owner would have paid if I asked). We wanted to win, so the boat was normally in pretty good condition. I scrubbed the hull (on a 52' boat) a couple of times before events. Crew kept the boat clean.

No one would leave the boat until all jobs were done and boat was sponged out.

For major events we would chip in for the entry and insurance costs - generally the crew boss would organise accomadation for us and tell us what we owned. So that all worked well for the most part. The owner occasionally let us do events by ourselves - on one occasions we broke a lot of stuff, and all that was asked was how we did. (luckily we won that one). All worked pretty well.

BUT

I was fordeck / mast, and there was a definate divide between owner, tactitian, main trimmer and the rest of us. As one of the trimmers was want to say, the only time we were allowed behind the wheel was to take a piss. As crew, it would have been nice if the owner had said that we swapped around a bit more for weekly races. Give others a chance to drive (other than on deliveries), get someone else on tactics, swap trimming duties etc. In our normal roles we were a good team (beat teams with paid rockstars regularly) but sometimes it felt like work.

As an owner, what are your crew getting out of it other than the reflected glory of watching you collect silverware? 

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I see both sides, I own and race a boat twice a week. Smaller 30ft so my care and feeding is peanuts compared with somebody trying to run a 40-50ft program. And i also do guest spots on other boats. I see both sides, but generally my crew brings beer, I make sandwiches for day events and stuff that breaks is on my dime. I like working on the boat, and find spending a sunday morning therapeutic.  I hear horror stories about guys that just keep pulling on stuff when its caught/stuck and hatches being stepped on, but thats boat racing with amatuers sometimes. 

And i dont like golf.

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Proper winches are hydraulically driven. Proper crew expense everything. Proper boat owners aren't drinks, they employ drunks.

The real problem here is that you're playing a game you can't afford and then blaming your playmates for your financial missteps.

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5 hours ago, PaulinVictoria said:

Can you race without the parasites turning up?

Can they race if someone doesnt provide the boat?

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4 hours ago, Se7en said:

That's what jumps out at me as well.

As background - I've raced my 37 ft family crusier around the cans a few times, but mainly crew on other peoples boats - because theirs are faster than mine.

As an owner, finding crew is a pain in the arse. Boat I crewed for the most had a crew manager who did this (but we won lots of shit, so people liked coming out with us).

As crew, we had it as a point of pride to be first to the bar to stand a round for the crew. It was rare for the owner to pay - when he did it was to celebrate winning something of note. Owner picked up all the boat bills, to the point that as crew we could put stuff on his account if we figured it was needed.

The core crew had areas of maintainance they were responsible for - I rebuilt all the jammers, and replaced a couple out of my pocket -bowman stripped the sheets and rinsed them - nav looked after computer and software etc. (The owner would have paid if I asked). We wanted to win, so the boat was normally in pretty good condition. I scrubbed the hull (on a 52' boat) a couple of times before events. Crew kept the boat clean.

No one would leave the boat until all jobs were done and boat was sponged out.

For major events we would chip in for the entry and insurance costs - generally the crew boss would organise accomadation for us and tell us what we owned. So that all worked well for the most part. The owner occasionally let us do events by ourselves - on one occasions we broke a lot of stuff, and all that was asked was how we did. (luckily we won that one). All worked pretty well.

BUT

I was fordeck / mast, and there was a definate divide between owner, tactitian, main trimmer and the rest of us. As one of the trimmers was want to say, the only time we were allowed behind the wheel was to take a piss. As crew, it would have been nice if the owner had said that we swapped around a bit more for weekly races. Give others a chance to drive (other than on deliveries), get someone else on tactics, swap trimming duties etc. In our normal roles we were a good team (beat teams with paid rockstars regularly) but sometimes it felt like work.

As an owner, what are your crew getting out of it other than the reflected glory of watching you collect silverware? 

I would much rather sail on this boat.....while I agree I think everyone should get a spell behind the mast......you clearly felt like a team, and it worked.

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OPer, need crew? Your situation sounds really good from my perspective. 

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7 hours ago, sumtingwong said:

Hey man, stop bringing the truth into the conversation!  Late entry edit:  $30 for a fucking shackle and $100 for a god damn winch handle. 

Sea-Dog, Winch Handle, Floating, Locking, Fiberglass / Nylon

Mfr: Sea-Dog Line (Div. Of Sea-Dog Corp)
$18.47 to $20.16
shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0IeiCHYKJS9FTI5lcC

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6 hours ago, The Main Man said:

You seem upset... Seriously though, I don’t get that you have to stump up for booze and dinners as well as the rest. 

Take them to a vegan restaurant that does not have a liquor license.  

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There is a reason solo racing is a growing thing.....only one dickhead to yell at when everything turns pear shaped and the dinners are cheaper.....

 

 

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Wow! If I buy you a winch handle, will you promise to retire from sailboat racing?

People wonder why it's hard to recruit crew and new sailors. You buy a boat and make a decision to race. At this point you no longer own a boat, you own a team. If you feel that having a well equipped boat, a well fed and entertained crew, and a highly motivated positive team environment is a key to your success, than you go online Monday morning and order a new f-ing winch handle!

Without the crew, you don't race. Without the boat, the crew finds someone else to sail with. Most clubs have at least a half dozen boats struggling to find enough people to make it to the starting line, let alone enough skilled sailors to be competitive once they get there. Wanna bet these boats wouldn't expect that crew to pay for a $100 winch handle if it accidently falls overboard? Even worse, without the boat to sail on, the crew finds something else to go do with their weekend that doesn't involve a drunk ass skipper yelling at them for tossing a winch handle overboard.

Have a fun hangover! 

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If it bugs you enough to create a sock, get inebriated and bitch, how about sitting down and have an honest heart-to-heart talk with your crew. I find it unusual that a "weekend warrior" skipper would cover all expenses. As crew, we typically pay our own way, except for that occasional crew dinner or drink at the bar.

One of the skippers I sailed with was not able to do our favorite race week because of family coming to town and finances. A buddy and I sailed with him there the previous two years and had a blast. When we all talked, it turns out family was there the week before race week, so no time to prep the boat, and he was a bit strapped financially. My buddy and I ended up taking his truck and boat, drove to the venue a couple days ahead of time, and prepared, launched and tuned the boat. Skip only had to drive one of our cars over the night before. We agreed ahead of time to evenly split all expenses. It was great. We all had an excellent time, way more fun than having to have to stay home. All this because he simply sat down and explained the situation to us.

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I would not crew on a boat that wanted to hold me financially liable for problems. We collectively can't get crew NOW as it is.

Think about the unlimited downside to this. Any big boat gives you the opportunity to do thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in a heartbeat. What kind of idiot would volunteer to take on that liability for FUN :huh:

 

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^^^ insurance companies would love it as crew would now need to buy their own insurance to race somebody's else's boat.

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Totally agree. I don't race but I cruise the islands on a friends boat - usually three of us - He provides the boat and we bring the food and intoxicants as well as pay for the fuel, any dockage etc.

Any small stuff needed is handled ad hoc - last time I stripped & lubed the winches and bought a handful of S/S fasteners to remount the anchor roller - like that.

No-one has dropped a handle or ripped up a sail but we'd fix our own fuckups.

Considering that a boat like that would cost $4K/week bareboat it's the least we can do.

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As for "parasites" I would not invite them back, it's the prerogative of the owner to choose who is aboard. 

As skipper it's my job to pay attention, orient and supervise new crew. If they are not aware of problems, and damage something through ignorant enthusiasm, it's my problem. 

If they are clumsy and drop winch handles or other gear, it's more common that they volunteer to replace it than not, and still my problem.

If they are unreliable, abusive or otherwise problematic, they get dropped from the crew list, and that's generally end of the problem. I dropped out of the "come sail" apps that generated a lot of email traffic and not much in the way of useful crew. Sort of like online dating, it's not as good as the real thing. People who know enough to come to the club, ask the RC who is likely to take crew out are the ones I want. 

 

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I’m crew.  Can’t afford the boat and don’t want to.  I bring food and beverage and a good attitude.  (Honey badger doesn’t give a shit).  I do some maintenance on the boat, paint, varnish, whatever.  If I am stupid and break something I’ll make it good.  Not everybody can afford the whole shit list, but for the sake of us boat builders, maintainers, sellers, surveyors, and other boat bums I am glad that some can.  And thanks!  It’s supposed to be fun and if it isn’t get off the bus.

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58 minutes ago, Varan said:

 

One of the skippers I sailed with was not able to do our favorite race week because of family coming to town and finances. A buddy and I sailed with him there the previous two years and had a blast. When we all talked, it turns out family was there the week before race week, so no time to prep the boat, and he was a bit strapped financially. My buddy and I ended up taking his truck and boat, drove to the venue a couple days ahead of time, and prepared, launched and tuned the boat. Skip only had to drive one of our cars over the night before. We agreed ahead of time to evenly split all expenses. It was great. We all had an excellent time, way more fun than having to have to stay home. All this because he simply sat down and explained the situation to us.

This ! True friends racing together. True Team!

I dont know where you live, but if I heard about a team like this and they needed an additional crew for a weekend, I want jump aboard in a heart beat ........and I would ask "Hey I hear its a kinda team thing here on this boat, as your guest this weekend, what can I bring or do to contribute?"

I would MUCH rather sail with Varan's skipper and team than show up for an all-expenses paid crew job where I get a free shirt.

I get that the college kid on the boat gets a free ride.......but I have been gainfully employed for a number of years......and I don't need free stuff. I like to contribute and I dont feel "entitled" to just show up.  Varans team sounds like a great bunch of sailors who have such a good relationship that they can take their skipper aside, have a heart to heart and discover that as a team they could afford to do this race.  

 

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I dunno. When the Lewmar OneTouch winch handles first came out for the first season of so I made it clear that if you lost one of those you can damn well buy your own, but it had to be on my boat ever Wed at 4pm or any weekend we might be on the line. It was 1/2 in jest and I luckily never had anyone lose one.

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slightly off topic. I was an unpaid (by choice) BN for an out of town couple for many years. They covered expenses for the boat and if I delivered it somewhere covered my travel costs. I had use of it when available. Many years later when they no longer sailed or owned a boat I was in a tight spot and out of the blue I got a large check from them with a note thanking me for everything and that they did not expect to be repaid.

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14 hours ago, sumtingwong said:

Lol.  Problem is as much as they piss me off somehow I've grown attached to them.  Except for that one asshole who shows up late, never responds to emails and gives me attitude.  But holy shit that fucker can get a kite down in any conditions.  Maybe it would be easier to just start a tennis team.

Have you spoken with the Foredeck Union?

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3 hours ago, Proneshooter said:

slightly off topic. I was an unpaid (by choice) BN for an out of town couple for many years. They covered expenses for the boat and if I delivered it somewhere covered my travel costs. I had use of it when available. Many years later when they no longer sailed or owned a boat I was in a tight spot and out of the blue I got a large check from them with a note thanking me for everything and that they did not expect to be repaid.

Karma.

I'm a long way from spiritual but I do believe in Karma - what goes around comes around, you make your own luck - however you want to describe it.

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The policy on my boat is that the person who looses a winch handle overboard gives a blow job to each of the others on the boat or replaces the gear lost overboard.  I have yet to get a blow job in the last 25 years.  This rule makes the gear that much more valuable to the crew.

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Simply put - when I was crew I didn’t have to pay for anything and when I became an owner the same applied to my crew. From this thread there are some who EXPECT a free ride and others tired of the freeloaders. 
I remember around 20 years ago we were leading the series. I had to go in for surgery and was not available for the final race. So I chucked the boat keys to my young crew - we were a team. What else would you do?

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Okay, here's the deal.  If an owner wants to fund a program that performs, they pay a premium.  If you are a crew that causes unexpected costs, whether performance or financial expect to come under a strict cost benifit analysis. It's a market thing. There are only so many talented crew and there have traditionally been enough owners that want to win to drive up the demand for talent you can get along with.

It's all about bringing a desirable asset to the market. If it's tainted by unexpected costs. It gets cut.

 

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17 hours ago, sumtingwong said:

Late to this party regarding boat owner expectations, took me a while to find my sock puppet login (and enough booze to make me write this) because I sure as fuck am not posting this under my normal account.  But this shit has been on my mind for years and there are a few other posts recently that triggered me and I know for a fact many other boat owners feel the same but no one wants to say it.

For a weekend warrior program without professionals onboard the fact that traditionally (at least in the U.S.) a boat owner is expected to cover all costs for the crew, including travel, food, beer, dinner afterwards,  shackles, winch handles and all the other shit that some fucking idiot lost overboard or breaks because they were careless is bullshit, plain and simple.  Tell me what other amateur team sport expects this? 

Not talking about pro teams or millionaire boat owners here, just weekend warrior guys who are blessed with a job that pays enough to buy a boat and all the expenses that go along with it.  If you drop a winch handle overboard or a shackle because you were just careless and I'm buying dinners, booze, sails, new lines, updating the electronics and oh yeah almost forgot THE ENTIRE COST OF THE FUCKING BOAT ITSELF to begin with would it really kill you to spend 30 fucking dollars as a show of appreciation for the shit you carelessly lost?

I do it because it's traditionally what's expected and for the most part I enjoy buying the crew dinner, drinks and maintaining the boat.  Although you would never guess it from this drunken rant of a post, I actually do enjoy spending time with the crew.  As a matter of fact the crew is probably the biggest reason why I do it, love hanging out with those fucking parasites.  Well, there's that one guy that drives me fucking crazy but that's a story for the next drunk post.  But just because I can afford a boat doesn't mean I can afford to pay for an entire boat of fucking parasites leeching off my bank account.  I have no problem spending more time than anyone who doesn't own a boat would ever understand just to get the fucking boat ready, paying for the sails, getting the bottom cleaned and all the other shit that goes along with owning the boat.  My boat, my responsibility, I get it and I'm ok with that.  But if I'm providing a very nice boat that's very well equipped and maintained in top shape to race it seems like the least the crew of parasites can do is buy the owner a fucking dinner or bring some fucking booze so I don't have to buy it for you. A crew of 4 to 8, what would that cost?  $6 each to buy the owner a measly fucking dinner instead of the owner spending around $200-$300 for dinner and drinks?   Yeah yeah yeah, I get all the "glory" of the fucking pickle dish and my name on the internet for a weekend if we win.  What-fucking-ever, if you pay the fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars for the boat maintenance I'll gladly put your name down as the owner and give you the fucking pickle dish even if I'm still paying for the boat.

Again, this is about normal guys with a decent income who can afford a race boat but don't have money to burn.  Not talking about professional boats or multimillionaire boat owners who can afford to piss money into the wind. Also, love my crew, love sailing with them and I don't blame them for the bullshit traditions and expectations that have been in place for years, even if they are a bunch of fucking parasites.

You are doing it all wrong. I make them pay to come along and buy me dinner. 

But seriously though your crew sound like a bunch of entitled dickwads having some pro sailor wannbie fantasy - You need to have a quiet word with then.

Try this - 'Listen you pack of freeloading cunts, do I look like a fucking Kennedy? No? Well from now on you can pay for your own fucking drinks and meals and if you don't like it you can fuck off'.

Or words to that effect. 

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This is not a man I would sail with even for an evening cruise.  To call the people who volunteer their free time parasites, shows no respect. 

I would have been happier after wasting my time to read his rant if he finished the narrative with a classified advertisement for his obviously neglected boat that would be better served by a real owner who respects the people who volunteer to go sailing with him. 

Its pathetic that he posted, and harbors these emotions. He should be ashamed. I hope his crew recognizes how much of a low life he is and jump ship. 

Period.

 

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LB 15,

In wealthy circles, the Kennedys don't really cut it because they don't have that much so you might want to consider updating your reference lol!!

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44 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Fuck racing.

I always like taking it slow - fuck racing sounds like a virgin teenager getting his first.

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

I always like taking it slow - fuck racing sounds like a virgin teenager getting his fist.

fixte                                     :)

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

If crew from the US maybe they get easily bemuddled and confused?

IMG_20191109_053526.jpg.a1ad293062b606a84af27e9d2a916c68.jpg

Ran into a big, older,  albino African American at the local auto parts store this afternoon. Thought of this thread as I talked to him. He was the loudest and most liked guy in the store, everyone knew him, whiter than these oldies and wore the same cap as the guy above. 
 

Only in America

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Sounds like a failure to communicate, to me:

 

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Have sailed on a pro setup and was disgusted at how the expectation was the owner not only paid for everything but when they had the crew dinner they would order with abandon knowing they would never drink wines like that if they had to pay for them themselves.  Most would have had a hamburger and a six pack if it was on their own dime.

On my boats I would pay for everything on the boat, entry fees etc.  We would share travel, food and accomodation costs.  Crew would always offer to work on the boat which was always rewarded with a few beers after.

Don't think I could sail on a boat where the owner asks for contributions to the boat.  

Can't understand the american model

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Hangover is wearing off and I'm slowly coming to my senses after my drunken rant.  Looking back, Jesus fuckin christ on a popsicle stick I swear a lot and sound angry when I'm drunk posting.  Never thought of myself as an angry drunk, maybe need to rethink that, or maybe I need to drink more till I get happy.  I still stand behind the main message of my OP that it's ridiculous in this part of the world traditionally the owner pays for everything.  But I certainly don't hold it against the crew or even really mind doing it necessarily.  It's more of a "hate the game not the player situation".  Even though I don't mind paying for a bunch of really nice and fun free loaders I'd be lying if I didn't say sometimes it's impossible to not feel a little like some of the guys occasionally are taking advantage of the situation.  Especially the ones who don't think twice about running up the bar tab at the club after the race.  I swear some of them take on the bar tab as a challenge to max it out.  It's not often and not many of them, but it definitely happens occasionally.

All the replies are really interesting, some really funny, some that bring up some interesting perspectives and some that are just ridiculous.  Even though there's no right or wrong opinion, you're still wrong :D  Carry on flaming away, I'll be waiting over here while I lubricating my keyboard with my favorite adult beverage.  I'm shooting for a happy drunk state tonight but ya never know, sometimes it's hard to predict.

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15 hours ago, Jubblies said:

Wow! If I buy you a winch handle, will you promise to retire from sailboat racing?

People wonder why it's hard to recruit crew and new sailors. You buy a boat and make a decision to race. At this point you no longer own a boat, you own a team. If you feel that having a well equipped boat, a well fed and entertained crew, and a highly motivated positive team environment is a key to your success, than you go online Monday morning and order a new f-ing winch handle!

Without the crew, you don't race. Without the boat, the crew finds someone else to sail with. Most clubs have at least a half dozen boats struggling to find enough people to make it to the starting line, let alone enough skilled sailors to be competitive once they get there. Wanna bet these boats wouldn't expect that crew to pay for a $100 winch handle if it accidently falls overboard? Even worse, without the boat to sail on, the crew finds something else to go do with their weekend that doesn't involve a drunk ass skipper yelling at them for tossing a winch handle overboard.

Have a fun hangover! 

this thread needs to be broken up into different countries. Vast, vast different shit going on outside of yours.

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3 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Have sailed on a pro setup and was disgusted at how the expectation was the owner not only paid for everything but when they had the crew dinner they would order with abandon knowing they would never drink wines like that if they had to pay for them themselves.  Most would have had a hamburger and a six pack if it was on their own dime.

On my boats I would pay for everything on the boat, entry fees etc.  We would share travel, food and accomodation costs.  Crew would always offer to work on the boat which was always rewarded with a few beers after.

Don't think I could sail on a boat where the owner asks for contributions to the boat.  

Can't understand the american model

This.

I provide boat. And pay for the mooring fees, insurance, most race fees, and general maintenance of boat. For a 35ft shoestring 'campaign' it costs me around 20k / year.

That is $400 per week. Every. Fucking. Week.

So if we ask for a voluntary $10 contribution, which is not enforced, for the 'serious' club races, no-one has an issue. $10 is a fucking beer at the bar. Crew help out when they can, chip in some time and effort every 15 mths or so when we come outta the piss for the antifoul etc.

If we do something like a regatta, or an offshore race - there are a lot of one-off costs for those events. And the cost of those one-off costs are divided equally amongst the whole team. Everyone pays their own accomodation, meals, booze, etc. It is literally like heading off for a road trip with mates, and you all share the costs of the trip. The only difference is I am paying for the boat, and the ongoing maintenance of it.

The crew appreciate this, cos they are not stupid, and are more than willing to do whatever they can to help.

Yanks are fucking strange, or have lots of really rich boat owners begging for mates.

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On 11/9/2019 at 6:12 PM, sumtingwong said:

Lol.  Problem is as much as they piss me off somehow I've grown attached to them.  Except for that one asshole who shows up late, never responds to emails and gives me attitude.  But holy shit that fucker can get a kite down in any conditions.  Maybe it would be easier to just start a tennis team.

1. Your boat, your rules. The guy who’s always late, doesn’t respond to emails and gives you attitude? “Where’s Jerry? Oh yeah, I cut him. He’s always late, doesn’t respond to emails and gives me attitude.”

 

2. “New rule guys. It’s $10 per race, per person into the boat’s beer fund. Don’t like that idea? You guys work out a roster, and someone different brings a case each week. I’m not on the roster.”

 

3. “Seeing as how I pay for travel costs, I’m importing this guy called Jason AUS from Sydney, Australia. I met him on Sailing Anarchy. He’s replacing Jerry.”

 

Honestly, we do things differently down here. If you don’t ever offer to buy the owner a beer after racing, you may be a cunt. If you never group together to buy the owner dinner, you may be a pack of cunts.

 

I’d also expect to replace a winch handle if I lost one, organise food for long races (with costs split amongst everyone EXCEPT the owner and an extra $20 a head to chip in for boat gas and a bottle or two of rum), plus pay for my own accomodation and travel. In 25 years I’ve been on two boats where I haven’t had to pay, and I still made sure I was at least organising a post race dinner venue, making a meal or contributing somehow. And I was VERY polite to both owners. ALL the time. They’re funding my hobby.

 

In fact, last weekend I was an invited guest for a short race and the navigator wanted to argue with the owner about him choosing the number 4 jib. I didn’t mind telling the sailing master I thought that was poor form. “His boat, his bills, his choice. If he wants the storm jib in 15 knots, you don’t argue. You do.”

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8 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Have sailed on a pro setup and was disgusted at how the expectation was the owner not only paid for everything but when they had the crew dinner they would order with abandon knowing they would never drink wines like that if they had to pay for them themselves.  Most would have had a hamburger and a six pack if it was on their own dime.

This. Except that a lot of shitty amateur sailors seem to assume that just bc an average guy owns a race boat, that he should also cover their meals, hotels, airfare, and bar tab.

Guess what, he isnt DeVos and you aren’t on a TP-52, (or good enough to make one of those teams).  And thats fine, but just try to be gracious  & recognize that for the cost of sailing gloves and boat shoes you’re out on the water playing a sport that would otherwise cost you thousands a month.

So buy your own fucking beer asshole.  I mean really, Is there any other social activity where it’s acceptable to freeload the drinks and meal? Get a fucking round and pickup the owners tab once in while. And then when he throws a crew dinner itll be because he likes you, and not as an obligation.

and you might just win more if he’s spending his cash on a new j1 rather than your freeloading ass.

 

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8 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Have sailed on a pro setup and was disgusted at how the expectation was the owner not only paid for everything but when they had the crew dinner they would order with abandon knowing they would never drink wines like that if they had to pay for them themselves.  Most would have had a hamburger and a six pack if it was on their own dime.

On my boats I would pay for everything on the boat, entry fees etc.  We would share travel, food and accomodation costs.  Crew would always offer to work on the boat which was always rewarded with a few beers after.

Don't think I could sail on a boat where the owner asks for contributions to the boat.  

Can't understand the american model

What model? The one where crew pays to be on the boat is illegal in America. I think that is the Norwegian model.
In the USA we have:

1. Paid crew. That is your actual job. You get up in the morning and go to work - on the boat.

2. Paid crew by the race. You probably have a day job too, this is a part time gig. Your full time job is probably related to boats too.

3. Volunteer crew. This is not a job, it is a hobby. No one is paying you to be on the boat.

 3a - Low budget boat, everyone brings some food and beer and might chip in for gas/entry fees and other direct costs for the day.

 3b - Medium budget boat, where you get fed and beer-ed, you just bring yourself.

 3c - Big budget boat, you'll get food, beer, some team uniform stuff, and travel expenses.

What we don't have legally is a fee for racing system unless it actually is a commercial program with a licensed captain and a COI for over 6 people.

We do have clubs that collectively own a fleet and have various ways of doling out the boats for races.

We do occasionally have group projects where some (usually young) guys scrape up some cash to get together and get an old boat out on the course.

What we REALLY have in the USA in any area with active racing is a demand for crew. There are boats begging for people here, not vice versa.

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, VWAP said:

Sea-Dog, Winch Handle, Floating, Locking, Fiberglass / Nylon

Mfr: Sea-Dog Line (Div. Of Sea-Dog Corp)
$18.47 to $20.16
shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0IeiCHYKJS9FTI5lcC

Your in a race and the winch handle goes over the side ( never happens) A $100 metal one sinks and you keep racing,

A floating one , you do your 360 ( penalty turn ) and pick it up , right!

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When I was racing OD, we had the boat owner who bought the boat, sails, equipment, maintenance, entry fees, lodging for routine “away games” and a few thousand other things. As a crew, we brought beer and ice and lunch/snacks for day races. We generally managed to forget the college kid when it came to buying stuff or asked him to bring ice. For long distance travel regattas (nationals), we talked through expenses and came to an agreement on if we would go and what the expenses were and how they were shared.  

We had 2 other boat owners and an airplane owner in the crew and we had a pretty good idea of the costs that the owner was covering. Each spring, we had a crew meeting/commissioning work party and we never left the boat dirty or needing routine daily maintenance. At the end of the season, we had a crew Christmas party, usually at the owner’s house. As a crew, we would provide a “boat gift” and a token gift to the owner. One year, it was new halyards. Another was a custom 1/2 model. Owner usually passed out crew gifts.  At the bar, it was often a race to grab the first round and the skippers glass was never empty. 
 

Owner put out a “sailing contract” that spelled out what he would provide (competitive boat and sails in good condition, entries, etc) and what was expected from crew (commitment to show up ready to race with personal safety gear, occasional practice sails, tuning events, basic maintenance and participating in supplying drinks and food).  
 

Worked  out pretty well.

Not every crew is sucking off the owner’s wallet.  Not every owner is independently wealthy.  Seems the best local fleets are made up of like minded friends sailing together. 

 

 

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I had the “honor” of racing a J-24 twice. Once in Maryland and once in Cape May. Both multi day events. I had to pay for transportation, room, foos and booze each time. I actually drove home from Cape May both nights because I couldn’t afford the hotels there. The owner was a dickhead, cocky jerk who barely even thanked me or anyone else for the time and effort to help him come in 7th and 12th place. I never took him up on an offer to sail with him again. And he is a millionaire.
 

When I sailed Wednesday nights out of Atlantic Highlands on the J-24 Stone Soup, the owner would supply beer for the races and buy dinner after at the club. It was a very nice way to show appreciation for the crew driving an hour each way to get there and help him win races, which we were good at. I had my own boat and could have sailed out of my club 5 minutes away, but the guy was so darned nice that I couldn’t bail on him!

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On 11/9/2019 at 1:41 AM, sumtingwong said:

But if I'm providing a very nice boat that's very well equipped and maintained in top shape to race it seems like the least the crew of parasites can do is buy the owner a fucking dinner or bring some fucking booze so I don't have to buy it for you. A crew of 4 to 8, what would that cost?  $6 each to buy the owner a measly fucking dinner instead of the owner spending around $200-$300 for dinner and drinks?

Could be you have the wrong crew?

When I was racing, I bought the dinners. But I rarely bought my own drinks or had to stock the boat with beer. When we did big events like BIRW I rented the house and bought dinner one night out, the crew handled the rest of the food and we call kicked in shares for booze.

My reasons for stopping racing had nothing to do with feeling put upon by my crew, they were great.

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21 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

If they are clumsy and drop winch handles or other gear, it's more common that they volunteer to replace it than not, and still my problem.

Yup. I had this stuff happen. The offer to replace it is sufficient, I never asked for payment. Not even the time one guy dropped a mad expensive winch handle I bought just for him on like the second tack of the race we first used it in...

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I forgot

to add that the first skipper crewed on our OD boat for a number of years as tactician and was always a dock jumper. He’d meet us on the way to the race with his powerboat. He’s anchor and we’d have to pick him up and drop him off. He never lifted a finger to help, made bad calls that I would have to aggressively protest to avoid losing races and always made it to the bar before us (we had to put the boat away clean before hitting the bar). He would drink Mt. Gay and tonic like water on our skipper’s charge account. I remember ordering the same when I crewed for him in Maryland to see his reaction. You would have thought that I raped his wife and dog. I had the money to pay for the drink, of course, and when he protested that I wasn’t drinking the free beer from the keg, his fellow J-24 sailors started abusing him for being the ultimate cheapeskate. I did pay for the drink as he refused to pay as expected.

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1 hour ago, garuda3 said:

Your in a race and the winch handle goes over the side ( never happens) A $100 metal one sinks and you keep racing,

A floating one , you do your 360 ( penalty turn ) and pick it up , right!

since you loose so many winch handles, buy them by the dozen and keep them in the drawer  below where you keep the protest flag.

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39 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I forgot

to add that the first skipper crewed on our OD boat for a number of years as tactician and was always a dock jumper. He’d meet us on the way to the race with his powerboat. He’s anchor and we’d have to pick him up and drop him off. He never lifted a finger to help, made bad calls that I would have to aggressively protest to avoid losing races and always made it to the bar before us (we had to put the boat away clean before hitting the bar). He would drink Mt. Gay and tonic like water on our skipper’s charge account. I remember ordering the same when I crewed for him in Maryland to see his reaction. You would have thought that I raped his wife and dog. I had the money to pay for the drink, of course, and when he protested that I wasn’t drinking the free beer from the keg, his fellow J-24 sailors started abusing him for being the ultimate cheapeskate. I did pay for the drink as he refused to pay as expected.

dats fucked up. when i race the commodores boat the twins pay for everything, hotel room, dinners  fizz coolers etc etc  with the commodores credit card, 

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There is a misapprehension that cost sharing in the US or asking the crew to contribute to costs would make a boat subject to operating with passengers for hire. 

I am a lawyer but with limited knowledge in this field. However I know someone who is and I asked him. 

Federal law (Title 46 U.S. Code, sec. 2101) defines a passenger for hire as ‘a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel,’  However "consideration" does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage by monetary contribution or donation of food, fuel, beverage, or other supplies.  In particular, the US Coast guard will be unlikely to deem someone a passenger for hire who makes a voluntary contribution to the expenses of the voyage AND shares responsibilities relating to the operation of the boat.

Thus, in his informal opinion, if the core crew of a racing yacht agree with the owner that they would each contribute $800 towards the expenses of their program , they would not create a vessel operating with passengers for hire, but he would advocate spending a few bucks on a lawyer and a waiver that owner and crew sign..   The specific advice would depend on circumstances, so for example having a fixed per diem rate for anyone who wanted to sail on the boat would not go down well, nor any kind of advertising.

This might be helpful:

https://www.luxyachts.com/resources/USCG-Charter-Brochure.pdf

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53 minutes ago, VWAP said:

since you loose so many winch handles, buy them by the dozen and keep them in the drawer  below where you keep the protest flag.

Funny you should say that , but I'm presently boatless but still have 2 Lewmar winch handles in my shed, and always carry one in my duffel bag when crewing.

Also reminds me of a story of one of my (mid 70"s)first races , A paceship 23, we were in second place till the first place boat lose there only winch handle , so we won!

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On 11/9/2019 at 1:41 AM, sumtingwong said:

Late to this party regarding boat owner expectations, took me a while to find my sock puppet login (and enough booze to make me write this) because I sure as fuck am not posting this under my normal account.  But this shit has been on my mind for years and there are a few other posts recently that triggered me and I know for a fact many other boat owners feel the same but no one wants to say it.

For a weekend warrior program without professionals onboard the fact that traditionally (at least in the U.S.) a boat owner is expected to cover all costs for the crew, including travel, food, beer, dinner afterwards,  shackles, winch handles and all the other shit that some fucking idiot lost overboard or breaks because they were careless is bullshit, plain and simple.  Tell me what other amateur team sport expects this? 

Not talking about pro teams or millionaire boat owners here, just weekend warrior guys who are blessed with a job that pays enough to buy a boat and all the expenses that go along with it.  If you drop a winch handle overboard or a shackle because you were just careless and I'm buying dinners, booze, sails, new lines, updating the electronics and oh yeah almost forgot THE ENTIRE COST OF THE FUCKING BOAT ITSELF to begin with would it really kill you to spend 30 fucking dollars as a show of appreciation for the shit you carelessly lost?

I do it because it's traditionally what's expected and for the most part I enjoy buying the crew dinner, drinks and maintaining the boat.  Although you would never guess it from this drunken rant of a post, I actually do enjoy spending time with the crew.  As a matter of fact the crew is probably the biggest reason why I do it, love hanging out with those fucking parasites.  Well, there's that one guy that drives me fucking crazy but that's a story for the next drunk post.  But just because I can afford a boat doesn't mean I can afford to pay for an entire boat of fucking parasites leeching off my bank account.  I have no problem spending more time than anyone who doesn't own a boat would ever understand just to get the fucking boat ready, paying for the sails, getting the bottom cleaned and all the other shit that goes along with owning the boat.  My boat, my responsibility, I get it and I'm ok with that.  But if I'm providing a very nice boat that's very well equipped and maintained in top shape to race it seems like the least the crew of parasites can do is buy the owner a fucking dinner or bring some fucking booze so I don't have to buy it for you. A crew of 4 to 8, what would that cost?  $6 each to buy the owner a measly fucking dinner instead of the owner spending around $200-$300 for dinner and drinks?   Yeah yeah yeah, I get all the "glory" of the fucking pickle dish and my name on the internet for a weekend if we win.  What-fucking-ever, if you pay the fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars for the boat maintenance I'll gladly put your name down as the owner and give you the fucking pickle dish even if I'm still paying for the boat.

Again, this is about normal guys with a decent income who can afford a race boat but don't have money to burn.  Not talking about professional boats or multimillionaire boat owners who can afford to piss money into the wind. Also, love my crew, love sailing with them and I don't blame them for the bullshit traditions and expectations that have been in place for years, even if they are a bunch of fucking parasites.

You have a point that carelessly lost, minor expense gear should be replaced if only as a gesture of goodwill, but that 6k spinnaker that just turned into confetti? That's on you chief. I've got not problem buying dinner and drinks for myself after racing but we're going to the local burger joint, not a steak house. 

As for the rest of it, if you're asking me to chip in on general expenses I'll take a pass and go race my dinghy for the weekend. If i'm paying i might as well be driving and get my name on the pickle dish. ;)

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20 hours ago, mookiesurfs said:

Have you spoken with the Foredeck Union?

I wouldn't recommend that to a boat owner, last time I brought up a grievance with the FU I ended up having to pay for and install cup holders and a set of stereo speakers on the bow of my boat.   What next?  A clean, dry and safe working environment???

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31 minutes ago, Psycho Tiller said:

I wouldn't recommend that to a boat owner, last time I brought up a grievance with the FU I ended up having to pay for and install cup holders and a set of stereo speakers on the bow of my boat.   What next?  A clean, dry and safe working environment???

It's a hard lesson to learn.  To loosely paraphrase Marx, while the owner controls the means of production, the FU controls the samurai douse.

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Genuinely, feel your pain sumtingwong.  I have a solution, do a double handed race, so you see how much free volunteer work you are benefiting from each week.

It may feel like a richer or poorer experience, but at least you'll be clearer on why you do it.

As a sometime crew hack who sometimes gets up stupidly early on days of poor weather to go and find the most uncomfortable spot to perch on while being shouted at and earning a hernia, in order to make some other sucker look good, I salute you for not asking me to help with your torch battery and sail repair bill, thanks a bunch.  If you buy the first round, I'll forgive you most of the other stuff too.

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2 hours ago, Psycho Tiller said:

(...)   What next?  A clean, dry and safe working environment???

I don't think that's very high on the FU's prority list.

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On 11/9/2019 at 11:01 AM, Varan said:

If it bugs you enough to create a sock, get inebriated and bitch, how about sitting down and have an honest heart-to-heart talk with your crew. I find it unusual that a "weekend warrior" skipper would cover all expenses. As crew, we typically pay our own way, except for that occasional crew dinner or drink at the bar.

One of the skippers I sailed with was not able to do our favorite race week because of family coming to town and finances. A buddy and I sailed with him there the previous two years and had a blast. When we all talked, it turns out family was there the week before race week, so no time to prep the boat, and he was a bit strapped financially. My buddy and I ended up taking his truck and boat, drove to the venue a couple days ahead of time, and prepared, launched and tuned the boat. Skip only had to drive one of our cars over the night before. We agreed ahead of time to evenly split all expenses. It was great. We all had an excellent time, way more fun than having to have to stay home. All this because he simply sat down and explained the situation to us.

This.

I've never -- ever -- sailed on a boat where the owner was paying for everything. Sounds and feels wrong. Must vary with local customs so I'll say: in Argentina, NZ, and USA, as crew I always brought food and drink to share, paid for small bits I broke or lost (yes, I did drop a winch-handle, yes, I did pay for it), and always invited the captain drinks and food at the bar. I've prepared boats -- not huge jobs, half day the week before a big race.

We'd sometimes also pool money together for some expenses -- marina fees for a race series in a distant harbor, that kind of thing. We wanted our capt'n to feel good about it all, and to be able to afford it. If it got too expensive, he'd fold and we'd be out of a boat to sail on.

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After moving to Auckland in 2011 I decided to find a keel boat to sail on after many years away from the scene.

Being unsure of how the system worked, I had a quiet word with the skipper after the first race.

Me... "Is there a boat fund for each race?"

Skipper... "No, I have it covered, without crew I can't go sailing"

The crew took it in turns to buy the drinks (box of beer, bottle of rum) and ice which stayed on the dock until after the race

The crew turned up each week, helped with boat maintenance etc and we ended up winning some pickle dishes

... There was one occasion after multiple winch handles had been lost overboard that the skipper asked for $$$ to replace them and the crew contributed. Having to pay for the handles made the monkeys in adventure land more careful and no more handles were lost while I was on the boat!

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From my early days... Sailors were "amateurs" in the SU. Sure there were BN's who go a car repainted of first and last month's rent, but for the most part it was a rare sport where amateurs could go on the line with the likes of Blackaller and Cayard in SF Bay knowing they were the 'pro' amateurs and sometimes beat then and then on the drive home think "we just beat fucking Mario Andretti with out Chevy!"

Then ten world changed and to do top ranked stuff, it was like horse racing. Py the price or don't enter.

I have been blessed to be on the trailing edge of an owner who always picked up the tabs but never left the "friends and family" model of crew. We'd always come by when it was time to do a bottom, or buy a case of Saint James Rum for Capitan, but the rule was always : "Safe, fun, Fast".Always. After about 45 years, the crew i still tight and we would go anywhere on earth for Capitan.

The sport changes.

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When I had a boat I paid for everything related to the boat.  If I had a track car I would not ask my volunteer pit crew to chip in for tires and fuel.

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This 'we help the owner win so he should pay for our beers' attitude is as fucked up as it is dishonest. Yes out of the goodness of their little hearts they are giving up their Saturday hanging around at home like a tea towel, purely to help out the owner. It is like these fuckwits who want their dick sucked because they are 'sailing to Hobart to raise awareness for .................' (insert cause). How fucking selfless of them. 

These ungrateful cunts who think the owner owes them something are the first to leave when they get a better offer. Buy your own food and drinks and shout the owner as well. Because without them you would be sitting at home posting on some stupid sailing forum.

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30 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

When I had a boat I paid for everything related to the boat.  If I had a track car I would not ask my volunteer pit crew to chip in for tires and fuel.

Dumb analogy, unless your pit crew also get to drive the car

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And how come so many of you useless cunts throw the winch hammers over the side? When one of my crew do that I don't ask them to pay, nor do I ask them back. Dropping handles over the side is what newbies who haven't been trained properly do. Over the past 25 years my school has taken around 10,000 people sailing and in all that time I think we have lost 3 winch handles over the side. Fuck! Buy the ones with a lock and just leave the fucking things in the winch where they belong.

Cunts!

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We've only lost 1 in 20 years, and it was due to a crew mistake. That crew had a new one on the boat before the next race, we didn't even ask.

Oh - and handles must be different in the US if they are only $20

image.png.d1a2c0a120e6fc39f19eb645d29f2ca5.png

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On 11/9/2019 at 10:49 AM, DrewR said:

I dunno. When the Lewmar OneTouch winch handles first came out for the first season of so I made it clear that if you lost one of those you can damn well buy your own, but it had to be on my boat ever Wed at 4pm or any weekend we might be on the line. It was 1/2 in jest and I luckily never had anyone lose one.

Brilliant.  Would love to see a trimmer or two turn up with their own winch handles!

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31 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

We've only lost 1 in 20 years, and it was due to a crew mistake. That crew had a new one on the boat before the next race, we didn't even ask.

Oh - and handles must be different in the US if they are only $20

image.png.d1a2c0a120e6fc39f19eb645d29f2ca5.png

Who the fuck would pay over $200 for a winch handle?

Other than someone with more money than brains.

The recycler in Lynden has crates of them for a few bucks each. Lots are crappy aluminium ones but there are dozens of good ones to choose from.

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Thanks Sloop, I'll pop in to Lyndens on my way to the boat next weekend

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Real easy, race doublehanded class.  And if there isn't one where you are, get one started.  Wife and I like dblhanding.  Don't have to find crew, don't have to trrain crew, don't have to coordinate all the logistics and when we lived 85 miles away it was a lot easier to just go to the boat and head out.

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Oz dollars are only .69c in US money.  So that handle is $143.95 in US. Still a bit steep.

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56 minutes ago, sailordave said:

Real easy, race doublehanded class.  And if there isn't one where you are, get one started.  Wife and I like dblhanding.  Don't have to find crew, don't have to trrain crew, don't have to coordinate all the logistics and when we lived 85 miles away it was a lot easier to just go to the boat and head out.

And no one gets upset when the bowman bangs the owners wife. But without a blow job first obviously...

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And another fucking thing, I'm calling BS on the whole "you're a cunt because you don't pay your crew in food, booze, travel and hotel expenses for the hard work they are doing for you."  If anyone sees their experience crewing on a boat as a job and not something you do for fun you're a fucking idiot. Seriously, that's just stupid.  Do you hate your kids and wife that much that being wet and cold all day and doing something you see as a job is more fun than staying home with your family?  Just for a free dinner and some booze?  If it's a 2nd job you're looking for you could get a far better return on your investment cooking burgers at mcdonalds and you'd be a hell of a lot warmer and dry.  I don't want anyone crewing for me if they don't want to be there or aren't enjoying it. This doesn't mean I'm not incredibly grateful for good crew who work hard though.

In a perfect world this should be a symbiotic relationship right?  I work hard to have a nice boat you can race on for free and you work hard to race the boat.  I'm supposed to enjoy the work it takes to keep the boat up and you're supposed to enjoy sailing on a nice boat for free. And maybe that sometimes means being an adult and responsible for paying your own way for food, booze and hotels. This is also the reason yelling and being a cunt to your crew as a boat owner is fucked up.  The guys on the crew are out there to have fun, it's not a job.  No matter how bad they fucked up that sail change ya gotta find a way to let it go. A dinner or drinks isn't the same as a paycheck and doesn't give permission to be screamed and yelled at for stupid shit.  If that's how they want to spend their weekend they would have stayed home with the wife who typically has years of experience yelling at you for stupid shit.

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Me - ‘Come on guys get your shit together for this next drop. You are making me look like a cunt’

Bowman- When was the last time you looked in a mirror, cuntface? 

I find crew banter is all about the timing.

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1 hour ago, sumtingwong said:

 If that's how they want to spend their weekend they would have stayed home with the wife who typically has years of experience yelling at you for stupid shit.

Not a truer word spoken

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

This 'we help the owner win so he should pay for our beers' attitude is as fucked up as it is dishonest. Yes out of the goodness of their little hearts they are giving up their Saturday hanging around at home like a tea towel, purely to help out the owner. It is like these fuckwits who want their dick sucked because they are 'sailing to Hobart to raise awareness for .................' (insert cause). How fucking selfless of them. 

These ungrateful cunts who think the owner owes them something are the first to leave when they get a better offer. Buy your own food and drinks and shout the owner as well. Because without them you would be sitting at home posting on some stupid sailing forum.

It balances out in the end.  Depends who is more easily replaced. The boat or the crew.  Same topic is going on in a powerboat forum. 

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3 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Dumb analogy, unless your pit crew also get to drive the car

And you let the foredeck take the helm.  

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26 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

And you let the foredeck take the helm.  

Most of our crew can do different jobs on the boat. A lot of them get to drive. They can also take the boat out for a race or a cruise if we're away.

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3 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Thanks Sloop, I'll pop in to Lyndens on my way to the boat next weekend

They don't scrap boats where you are?

No consignment shops?

No Craigslist type websites?

Then I guess you're fucked.

But that's what a cunt deserves anyway.

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As a kid it was a privilege to receive the invite to race by the owners , sail for them and help out with all of the painting, wet sanding, diving and racing. As a  corinthian it was even better on the big boats. During the progression to ownership I had all of the experience and understanding that silly and dangerous things will happen and there is a cost that should be averaged into participation in this sport. Group ownership is one way to share the costs if you get along with with the partners. Sailors that care have a strong opinion on the direction of the sport. There are takers and givers. If your hand is out, watch out....the economy is not going to roll on forever and your supporters could be gone tomorrow. (Unless you live in France) 

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4 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Thanks Sloop, I'll pop in to Lyndens on my way to the boat next weekend

It that a boat junk yard?

 

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