sumtingwong

Fucking parasites

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I've got 30ft cruising boat in the northeast US where we bang around the buoys on weds nights and do some of the local weekend races and the like.  I typically bring beer and snacks, but the crew usually brings (more) beer as well on weds nights.  We get drunk and its fun.  For weekend stuff where we need lunch I typically bring lunch, snacks, drinks, beer.  If I asked any of the crew to bring something they would and they have even when not asked.  For bigger events we'll figure it out but I typically cover entry fee and if folks want to do crew gear then we just split that cost.  For bigger events sometimes I'll ask the people doing it to throw in a few bucks to help cover dockage if its going to be expensive.  My crew knows im just a regular guy making regular guy money.

My program is about having fun and getting around the buoys efficiently.  My crew have fun and we rotate folks around to cross train, Ill get a hotshot i know  to come out and work different positions with my regular guys to teach them new techniques or help figure out the best way to a maneuver, etc. Some of the crew were pretty green but we've worked them up to being pretty solid.

I used to be too proud to ask for help with projects in the springtime or whenever, but I've learned 1)  things go way faster with a few extra hands and 2) most of guys who volunteer to come out and help do projects genuinely  enjoy the work and are happy to contribute some sweat so the boat gets in the water on schedule and we can go out and play again.  I appreciate the help but would never expect anyone show up as thats my responsibility as the owner.  But they do and Ill continue to buy the beer and sandwiches, etc.  Buying a 30 rack of beer for my friends is cheaper than paying someone strip my toe rails and it allows the crew to get their hands dirty in a satisfying way for them.

It comes down to how you want to run your program.  Its nice to get on a boat where there is plenty of beer and some decent snacks, free gear, paid travel, etc.  I don't personally mind it if Im asked to bring some of those beers or snacks when I am showing up as crew because i respect what the owner has to deal with.  

 

 

 

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OP must know his crew read SA, thus the sock

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I never knew the “tradition” was for the owner to pay for everything – silly me. 

Started sailing as a kid on a homemade sunfish built by my buddy’s dad from Popular Mechanics plans.  Later, we both bought catamarans and sailed against one another.  Then he decided to buy a new Oday 27 and we began doing Wednesday night races.  After a few years he outgrew the Oday and bought a used Chance 32/28.  With that boat we were doing Wednesday races weekend races and BYC-Mackinac race.  Finally, he moved up to a Morgan 42 and had that boat for 25+ years. 

My buddy was a schoolteacher and everything was done on budget.  We never expected him t buy everything.  It was understood, up front, that we shared in bringing food, beer, soda pop, whatever for the races.  For the Mac race we all kicked in for the entry fee, dockage, food, fuel, etc.  I always thought this was fair and cheap way for me to go sailing on a bigger boat.  I sold my Hobie 16 when I realized I had done more sailing on his boat in two weeks than I sailed my own boat in a year. 

We even shared the cost of new sails - my buddy would put in 50% of the cost and each of the crew (8 or 9) would ante up the other 50%.  Cannot recall anyone bitching about it and we never had a crewman backout.  Every so often I (or someone else) would buy the boat a gift of some needed piece of equipment at Christmastime. 

In the fall, we came together as a crew to haul out the boat and winterize her.  In the spring, we rubbed out, waxed the boat and got her ready for the season.  Always had a fun time doing this. 

Maybe we had it all wrong, but I don’t regret a dollar or a minute of it.  Good times.

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3 hours ago, Raven NW said:

Owning a Canadian boat, my crew always apologizes when they drop something overboard.

 

Sorry eh.

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A good owner pays for the hookers as well.

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9 hours ago, LB 15 said:

A good owner pays for the hookers as well.

800px-Stephen_Moore_(Australian_rugby_un

I didn't know Stephen Moore was a professional sailor.

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Man you guys are some cheap assholes. Buy your damn crews' lunch and beer, fuck. Usually crew shows up with some beer and food but provision the damn boat, its just good manners. Its your boat, you're the host.

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This whole topic is ridiculous

anyone who thinks:

-An owner who doesn't buy beer and dinner  for the crew is a cheap fuck, or

-A crew who expects to have beer and dinner purchased is a parasite

Probably needs to review their expectations.

As a crew when a boat owner gets me out racing I'm grateful that he's putting a boat on the start line so that WE can race, anything else is a bonus.

As an owner when crew show up regularly to race with me I'm grateful that they are helping me get my boat on the start line so WE can race, anything else is a bonus.

There are lost of different ways this is done, and a wide variety of different expectations, we can all find a model that works for us, but its probably better if we don't say that any other model is unacceptable the only possible result is fewer boats racing.

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if you show up to someone elses boat without beer or food, you're a cheap fuck.

if you invite people to sail with you and dont have some beer and food, you're a cheap fuck.

If you lose someone else's winch handle over the side, replace it with one stolen from a boat on another pier. This is just good manners.

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On 11/11/2019 at 11:06 AM, The Dark Knight said:

I had two of those on my old boat. A great winch. During a race my uncle who was a regular crew lost on overboard. Bugger.

When I sold the boat I kept the remaining Lewmar. The new owner got the normal style.

 

EUR 80 - never had a better one

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Just got the ultimate revenge and proverbial last laugh on my own set of fucking parasites. Sold the boat, sent it packing other side of country.  Message. Delivered.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JimBowie said:

Just got the ultimate revenge and proverbial last laugh on my own set of fucking parasites. Sold the boat, sent it packing other side of country.  Message. Delivered.

 

 

I sold my boat just as 4 crew became club members :)

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On 11/9/2019 at 1:41 AM, sumtingwong said:

Late to this party regarding boat owner expectations, took me a while to find my sock puppet login (and enough booze to make me write this) because I sure as fuck am not posting this under my normal account.  But this shit has been on my mind for years and there are a few other posts recently that triggered me and I know for a fact many other boat owners feel the same but no one wants to say it.

For a weekend warrior program without professionals onboard the fact that traditionally (at least in the U.S.) a boat owner is expected to cover all costs for the crew, including travel, food, beer, dinner afterwards,  shackles, winch handles and all the other shit that some fucking idiot lost overboard or breaks because they were careless is bullshit, plain and simple.  Tell me what other amateur team sport expects this? 

Not talking about pro teams or millionaire boat owners here, just weekend warrior guys who are blessed with a job that pays enough to buy a boat and all the expenses that go along with it.  If you drop a winch handle overboard or a shackle because you were just careless and I'm buying dinners, booze, sails, new lines, updating the electronics and oh yeah almost forgot THE ENTIRE COST OF THE FUCKING BOAT ITSELF to begin with would it really kill you to spend 30 fucking dollars as a show of appreciation for the shit you carelessly lost?

I do it because it's traditionally what's expected and for the most part I enjoy buying the crew dinner, drinks and maintaining the boat.  Although you would never guess it from this drunken rant of a post, I actually do enjoy spending time with the crew.  As a matter of fact the crew is probably the biggest reason why I do it, love hanging out with those fucking parasites.  Well, there's that one guy that drives me fucking crazy but that's a story for the next drunk post.  But just because I can afford a boat doesn't mean I can afford to pay for an entire boat of fucking parasites leeching off my bank account.  I have no problem spending more time than anyone who doesn't own a boat would ever understand just to get the fucking boat ready, paying for the sails, getting the bottom cleaned and all the other shit that goes along with owning the boat.  My boat, my responsibility, I get it and I'm ok with that.  But if I'm providing a very nice boat that's very well equipped and maintained in top shape to race it seems like the least the crew of parasites can do is buy the owner a fucking dinner or bring some fucking booze so I don't have to buy it for you. A crew of 4 to 8, what would that cost?  $6 each to buy the owner a measly fucking dinner instead of the owner spending around $200-$300 for dinner and drinks?   Yeah yeah yeah, I get all the "glory" of the fucking pickle dish and my name on the internet for a weekend if we win.  What-fucking-ever, if you pay the fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars for the boat maintenance I'll gladly put your name down as the owner and give you the fucking pickle dish even if I'm still paying for the boat.

Again, this is about normal guys with a decent income who can afford a race boat but don't have money to burn.  Not talking about professional boats or multimillionaire boat owners who can afford to piss money into the wind. Also, love my crew, love sailing with them and I don't blame them for the bullshit traditions and expectations that have been in place for years, even if they are a bunch of fucking parasites.

Your boat, your show, your wallet comes to mind first but what you should do is a reset and start fresh really or simply have a sit down with your current "parasites" as you call them.

Tell 'em you have to change things in order to continue and put it out there.

The ones who stay will be the ones you want most aside from the one asshole who you really should pay, if you want to win.

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On 11/9/2019 at 12:41 AM, sumtingwong said:

Late to this party regarding boat owner expectations, took me a while to find my sock puppet login (and enough booze to make me write this) because I sure as fuck am not posting this under my normal account.  But this shit has been on my mind for years and there are a few other posts recently that triggered me and I know for a fact many other boat owners feel the same but no one wants to say it.

For a weekend warrior program without professionals onboard the fact that traditionally (at least in the U.S.) a boat owner is expected to cover all costs for the crew, including travel, food, beer, dinner afterwards,  shackles, winch handles and all the other shit that some fucking idiot lost overboard or breaks because they were careless is bullshit, plain and simple.  Tell me what other amateur team sport expects this? 

Not talking about pro teams or millionaire boat owners here, just weekend warrior guys who are blessed with a job that pays enough to buy a boat and all the expenses that go along with it.  If you drop a winch handle overboard or a shackle because you were just careless and I'm buying dinners, booze, sails, new lines, updating the electronics and oh yeah almost forgot THE ENTIRE COST OF THE FUCKING BOAT ITSELF to begin with would it really kill you to spend 30 fucking dollars as a show of appreciation for the shit you carelessly lost?

I do it because it's traditionally what's expected and for the most part I enjoy buying the crew dinner, drinks and maintaining the boat.  Although you would never guess it from this drunken rant of a post, I actually do enjoy spending time with the crew.  As a matter of fact the crew is probably the biggest reason why I do it, love hanging out with those fucking parasites.  Well, there's that one guy that drives me fucking crazy but that's a story for the next drunk post.  But just because I can afford a boat doesn't mean I can afford to pay for an entire boat of fucking parasites leeching off my bank account.  I have no problem spending more time than anyone who doesn't own a boat would ever understand just to get the fucking boat ready, paying for the sails, getting the bottom cleaned and all the other shit that goes along with owning the boat.  My boat, my responsibility, I get it and I'm ok with that.  But if I'm providing a very nice boat that's very well equipped and maintained in top shape to race it seems like the least the crew of parasites can do is buy the owner a fucking dinner or bring some fucking booze so I don't have to buy it for you. A crew of 4 to 8, what would that cost?  $6 each to buy the owner a measly fucking dinner instead of the owner spending around $200-$300 for dinner and drinks?   Yeah yeah yeah, I get all the "glory" of the fucking pickle dish and my name on the internet for a weekend if we win.  What-fucking-ever, if you pay the fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars for the boat maintenance I'll gladly put your name down as the owner and give you the fucking pickle dish even if I'm still paying for the boat.

Again, this is about normal guys with a decent income who can afford a race boat but don't have money to burn.  Not talking about professional boats or multimillionaire boat owners who can afford to piss money into the wind. Also, love my crew, love sailing with them and I don't blame them for the bullshit traditions and expectations that have been in place for years, even if they are a bunch of fucking parasites.

I’ve sailed with owners like you, but not for very long. Most of us that respect the boat owner are happy to spring for dinner and drinks, volunteer labor, etc. 

Asshole owners are a different story though. 

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Seems "Crew Rants about Owners" is a touchy subject.......thread has disappeared completely!!!

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11 minutes ago, Couta said:

Seems "Crew Rants about Owners" is a touchy subject.......thread has disappeared completely!!!

Yeah...what the hell??

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7 hours ago, Monkey said:

I’ve sailed with owners like you, but not for very long. Most of us that respect the boat owner are happy to spring for dinner and drinks, volunteer labor, etc. 

Asshole owners are a different story though. 

I know, total asshole.  What kind of boat owner thinks adults with good jobs should be able to take care of themselves and pay for their own food and booze.  It's the same when I stay at someones house for free and they don't pay for my meals, booze and everything else. They should be kissing my ass because I came to visit them.  What a cheap asshole boat owner,  he never once asked the crew to pay for anything or help with any work on the boat.  Ever.  He'd probably decline if they ever offered but they never have. (Correction, once a guy on the crew asked if I wanted help buffing and polishing the boat.  I said "yeah sure if you have time and don't mind.  I'll be starting at 11am tomorrow."  Tomorrow comes and he's a no show.) This boat owner is so cheap he paid $125,000 for the boat, $35,000 for sails, slip fees, insurance, annual taxes, new bottom paint every couple years, entry fees for the races, keep the electronics and boat updated and in excellent shape because he knows no one wants to race a shitty boat, keep the boat well stocked with food and booze, lunches and dinners afterwards, life raft rental for offshore races, paying for delivery crew for long races when no one feels like helping with deliveries back and making sure there are enough extra PFD's for everyone who doesn't feel like buying one for themselves.  Why the fuck shouldn't he also pay $300 every race for the crew's food and booze?  Does he really expect them to each pay $30 or $40 to feed themselves too?  Does he really expect that maybe every once in a while the crew offer to pick up the tab at the club after the race for the owners portion of booze and food? He'll probably even decline the offer because he doesn't mind paying for the crew but it's the thought that counts regarding the crew offering once in a while.  Yeah, this guy is just a selfish and cheap asshole.

I've had crew like you on my boat for one day but they never get invited back.

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I am both an owner and often a crew. I am a arsehole regardless of my role. Buy me dinner you cunts!

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Some of the weird dynamics in particularly well funded big boat programs includes:

1. winch hugging when new/short term crew come on for a race. Normal position holders gravitate to their spot on the boat and cling to it. Tenaciously. 

2. New owners being chased by sharks - this can be both the industry pros seeking/needing to establish their position, as well as the occasional entire gypsy crew from another program either looking for a new ride or re-grouping from a recently retired owner casting them adrift

3. Borderline obscene fealty to owner (see #7)

4. Crew who only know how to do one position. They often do that position well, but wow, they always lack a full boat, race, regatta, world perspective

5. Program sailors. Even more narrowly, those who only know how to do one position on one boat. 

6. Inability to deal with changes in crew. This is usually due to too many #4 and #5 type sailors who can't stretch to accomplish a larger or different set of roles when the situation requires it

7. Boat politics. Not to be confused with actual politics. The amount of ass kissing, jockeying for position, back-stabbing, and alliance building can be staggering

 

With the right owner and crew, it is one of the best experiences in life that you can have; regardless of who is paying for what part of the check. Sailed on both owner pay everything boats and a blended models with crew buying food, lodging, travel, drinks, and even sails. Both can be great as long as you ferret out the d-bags and posers. I wouldn't trade experiences, memories, and friendships created on any of those boats for anything. The good news is that if you are an owner with a bad crew, you can work through changing that. If you are a crew in what feels like a bad setup, leave and find another ride. If every ride you find is like that, take a close look in the mirror. 

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13 hours ago, sumtingwong said:

I know, total asshole.  What kind of boat owner thinks adults with good jobs should be able to take care of themselves and pay for their own food and booze.  It's the same when I stay at someones house for free and they don't pay for my meals, booze and everything else. They should be kissing my ass because I came to visit them.  What a cheap asshole boat owner,  he never once asked the crew to pay for anything or help with any work on the boat.  Ever.  He'd probably decline if they ever offered but they never have. (Correction, once a guy on the crew asked if I wanted help buffing and polishing the boat.  I said "yeah sure if you have time and don't mind.  I'll be starting at 11am tomorrow."  Tomorrow comes and he's a no show.) This boat owner is so cheap he paid $125,000 for the boat, $35,000 for sails, slip fees, insurance, annual taxes, new bottom paint every couple years, entry fees for the races, keep the electronics and boat updated and in excellent shape because he knows no one wants to race a shitty boat, keep the boat well stocked with food and booze, lunches and dinners afterwards, life raft rental for offshore races, paying for delivery crew for long races when no one feels like helping with deliveries back and making sure there are enough extra PFD's for everyone who doesn't feel like buying one for themselves.  Why the fuck shouldn't he also pay $300 every race for the crew's food and booze?  Does he really expect them to each pay $30 or $40 to feed themselves too?  Does he really expect that maybe every once in a while the crew offer to pick up the tab at the club after the race for the owners portion of booze and food? He'll probably even decline the offer because he doesn't mind paying for the crew but it's the thought that counts regarding the crew offering once in a while.  Yeah, this guy is just a selfish and cheap asshole.

I've had crew like you on my boat for one day but they never get invited back.

Dude.   Get something you can singlehand already.

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On 11/10/2019 at 10:07 AM, sail2win said:

LB 15,

In wealthy circles, the Kennedys don't really cut it because they don't have that much so you might want to consider updating your reference lol!!

I’m glad I am not a Kennedy.

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On 11/10/2019 at 12:46 AM, sumtingwong said:

Hangover is wearing off and I'm slowly coming to my senses after my drunken rant.  Looking back, Jesus fuckin christ on a popsicle stick I swear a lot and sound angry when I'm drunk posting.  Never thought of myself as an angry drunk, maybe need to rethink that, or maybe I need to drink more till I get happy.  I still stand behind the main message of my OP that it's ridiculous in this part of the world traditionally the owner pays for everything.  But I certainly don't hold it against the crew or even really mind doing it necessarily.  It's more of a "hate the game not the player situation".  Even though I don't mind paying for a bunch of really nice and fun free loaders I'd be lying if I didn't say sometimes it's impossible to not feel a little like some of the guys occasionally are taking advantage of the situation.  Especially the ones who don't think twice about running up the bar tab at the club after the race.  I swear some of them take on the bar tab as a challenge to max it out.  It's not often and not many of them, but it definitely happens occasionally.

All the replies are really interesting, some really funny, some that bring up some interesting perspectives and some that are just ridiculous.  Even though there's no right or wrong opinion, you're still wrong :D  Carry on flaming away, I'll be waiting over here while I lubricating my keyboard with my favorite adult beverage.  I'm shooting for a happy drunk state tonight but ya never know, sometimes it's hard to predict.

Your post amazingly well organized, spelling is quite good, and you have generated a lot of interest. Keep drinking and typing!

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

Your post amazingly well organized, spelling is quite good, and you have generated a lot of interest. Keep drinking and typing!

He's our next Hunter S. Thompson or Charles Bukowski.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

He's our next Hunter S. Thompson or Charles Bukowski.

I wase thjicking Lesbinon Robotte .................                       :)

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6 hours ago, Bull City said:

Your post amazingly well organized, spelling is quite good, and you have generated a lot of interest. Keep drinking and typing!

 

3 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

He's our next Hunter S. Thompson or Charles Bukowski.

I'm not worthy.  Stop it, you guys are making me blush.  I must say though this whole sock puppet thing is quite liberating.  I think I've discovered a new hobby while the boat is on the hard for the winter. 

 

3 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

I wase thjicking Lesbinon Robotte .................                       :)

I'm not a Lesbinon Robotte but my wife is.

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Bukowski wouldn’t give a fuck either way. He wore socks, don’t think he wrote any poems about them...

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11 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Bukowski wouldn’t give a fuck either way. He wore socks, don’t think he wrote any poems about them...

If it weren't for alcohol and women, Bukowski probably would have gone postal!   

 

11 hours ago, sumtingwong said:

 

I'm not worthy.  Stop it, you guys are making me blush.  I must say though this whole sock puppet thing is quite liberating.  I think I've discovered a new hobby while the boat is on the hard for the winter. 

 

I'm not a Lesbinon Robotte but my wife is.

Please, don't get a swelled head over it.  While your prose is a cut above many here, and your work is several orders of magnitude above Wofsey's drunken, incoherent ramblings, you still have a long way to go to play on the same field as the icons mentioned above. 

Your wife does sound interesting though, is she single?  Asking for a friend.

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2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:
2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:
14 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

 

If it weren't for alcohol and women, Bukowski probably would have gone postal!   

Don’t forget, he loved to light up a joint when he had to a reading. He hates doing them.

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:07 AM, sumtingwong said:

I know, total asshole.  What kind of boat owner thinks adults with good jobs should be able to take care of themselves and pay for their own food and booze.  It's the same when I stay at someones house for free and they don't pay for my meals, booze and everything else. They should be kissing my ass because I came to visit them.  What a cheap asshole boat owner,  he never once asked the crew to pay for anything or help with any work on the boat.  Ever.  He'd probably decline if they ever offered but they never have. (Correction, once a guy on the crew asked if I wanted help buffing and polishing the boat.  I said "yeah sure if you have time and don't mind.  I'll be starting at 11am tomorrow."  Tomorrow comes and he's a no show.) This boat owner is so cheap he paid $125,000 for the boat, $35,000 for sails, slip fees, insurance, annual taxes, new bottom paint every couple years, entry fees for the races, keep the electronics and boat updated and in excellent shape because he knows no one wants to race a shitty boat, keep the boat well stocked with food and booze, lunches and dinners afterwards, life raft rental for offshore races, paying for delivery crew for long races when no one feels like helping with deliveries back and making sure there are enough extra PFD's for everyone who doesn't feel like buying one for themselves.  Why the fuck shouldn't he also pay $300 every race for the crew's food and booze?  Does he really expect them to each pay $30 or $40 to feed themselves too?  Does he really expect that maybe every once in a while the crew offer to pick up the tab at the club after the race for the owners portion of booze and food? He'll probably even decline the offer because he doesn't mind paying for the crew but it's the thought that counts regarding the crew offering once in a while.  Yeah, this guy is just a selfish and cheap asshole.

I've had crew like you on my boat for one day but they never get invited back.

Somehow, unless you’ve managed to accumulate the greatest collection of shitty people out there, the odds say you’re a classic asshole owner. There’s a reason good people won’t sail with you. 

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Somehow, unless you’ve managed to accumulate the greatest collection of shitty people out there, the odds say you’re a classic asshole owner. There’s a reason good people won’t sail with you. 

Well now you've gone and hurt my feelings. I feel so ashamed.

 

57 minutes ago, mookiesurfs said:

In vino veritas

Et tu brute? ;)

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