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impeachment hearing play by play

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/graham-launches-probe-into-bidens-burisma-and-ukraine/2019/11/21/5a5675b4-0ca5-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

Graham launches probe of Bidens, Burisma and Ukraine

Excerpt -

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey O. Graham sent a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday requesting documents related to former vice president Joe Biden and his communications with Ukrainian officials, a step seen as a GOP effort to counter the House impeachment investigation of President Trump.

The inquiry by Graham (R-S.C.) is focused on any calls Biden may have had with Petro Poroshenko, then the Ukrainian president, regarding the firing of the country’s top prosecutor, as well as any that referenced an investigation of Burisma, the Ukrainian natural-gas company that employed Biden’s son Hunter Biden.

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8 minutes ago, jzk said:

Even "made up" testimony is admissible in that hearing.  

What was the circumstantial evidence?

Do you need a link to the video? I do not have time to go and make a list.  I am writing an annoying Addendum to Account Agreement for MRB and Hemp Businesses and it's taking me hours.

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4 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Circumstantial?  Josh Peterson was convicted of his wife's murder.  No one saw him do it.  He told everyone he didn't do it.  They called all kinds of people to the stand.  Not one to of them saw him do it.  But they did give motive and context.  There was a receipt that placed him near the Bay.  But all of the evidence was circumstantial.  He's in prison.

The stupidity of Republicans is astonishing.

The cupidity of Republicans is mesmerizing.

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2 minutes ago, Sean said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/graham-launches-probe-into-bidens-burisma-and-ukraine/2019/11/21/5a5675b4-0ca5-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

Graham launches probe of Bidens, Burisma and Ukraine

Excerpt -

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey O. Graham sent a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday requesting documents related to former vice president Joe Biden and his communications with Ukrainian officials, a step seen as a GOP effort to counter the House impeachment investigation of President Trump.

The inquiry by Graham (R-S.C.) is focused on any calls Biden may have had with Petro Poroshenko, then the Ukrainian president, regarding the firing of the country’s top prosecutor, as well as any that referenced an investigation of Burisma, the Ukrainian natural-gas company that employed Biden’s son Hunter Biden.

Didn't all this happen with Congressional approval?

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of course it did.  let's not pretend anything the republicans are doing right now has any legitimacy beyond distraction. 

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

Don't know anything about it.

You can say that about pretty much anything.

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37 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Do you need a link to the video? I do not have time to go and make a list.  I am writing an annoying Addendum to Account Agreement for MRB and Hemp Businesses and it's taking me hours.

No problem.  We can just keep it a secret like all of the other "evidence" discussed in this thread.

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Trump had to pay $25 million for a fake university, had to pay $2 million for stealing from a charity, pay $130k to keep an affair quiet, let Cohen go to jail for him, took credit for a factory opening 6 years ago, routinely bullies private citizens on social media...but yeah, he's the only one in this telling the truth.  

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It's sad how @Dog chooses to remain ignorant.  The info was provided him, and he turned up his nose.

Why the need to remain loyal to a man who uses people like toilet paper.  Has Dog no self-respect?

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It's sad how @Dog chooses to remain ignorant.  The info was provided him, and he turned up his nose.

Why the need to remain loyal to a man who uses people like toilet paper.  Has Dog no self-respect?

It's that Doggie need to sniff butts and eat random piles of shit.

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It's sad how @Dog chooses to remain ignorant.  The info was provided him, and he turned up his nose.

Why the need to remain loyal to a man who uses people like toilet paper.  Has Dog no self-respect?

Would you?

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Would you?

I know I've been wrong, in the past.  It's know I'll be wrong, in the future.

I also know I have the balls to admit when I am wrong and learn from my mistakes.

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It appears that the ranking minority member on the Intelligence Committee has a conflict of interest that he failed to disclose before he took a central role in these investigatory hearings, substantial amounts having taken place behind closed doors for security reasons. It seems Leo Parnas was helping Nunes set up meetings and spread disinformation casting doubt on the Mueller investigation.

So, one of the prime suspects in Giuliani's web of intrigue and shadow foreign policy has been cavorting with Nunes and three aides, including Derek Harvey, who charged American taxpayers for a $63K European fact-finding adventure last year, some of which was dedicated to undermining the investigation into our president's dealings with Russia which assisted with his 2016 election. 

Seems that lying isn't restricted to the POTUS... or is he the POUTUS these days?

BTW, Fruman and Parnas' lawyer used to be John Dowd, who also represents Trump. But both fired Dows after Trump denied knowing the men, and hired a new lawyer who has indicated that his clients are considering testifying to what they know.

@Dog and @warbird please feel free to wait until you've received your talking points on these issues. The principals involved seem to be undermining all your "principled" attempts to defend them, so you may well need some time to gather "your" thoughts. We are all sure they will entail whining about process and insisting that corrupt Republicans are innocent until proven guilty.

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Philly,

I just love it when a case comes together.

 

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8 minutes ago, hasher said:

Philly,

I just love it when a case comes together.

I actually feel sorry for millions of innocent Republicans these days. Their world is come crashing down, and they have to realize they have been conned, or else betray American ideals. I hope and pray enough will reject the cult of personality which has infested their leadership and spark a rise of true patriotism and newfound respect for the traditions and pains of democracy.

We need a healthy, vibrant debate to inform our country's progress, and the GOP has too long assumed they can distract their electorate and minimize the impact of the diverse citizens of our nation. Winning elections without the popular vote has become their brand. Ignoring fiscal and scientific realities has become their speciality. They need to fucking wake up and a pail of water dumped over their fat, lazy carcasses is the shock our country needs right now. 

Get up, bitches, and get back to work. Stop your rent seeking and quit living off the labors of others. Ours is a nation of a multitude of citizens and you can no longer abrogate responsibility for our future by only governing for a select few.

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11 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

It appears that the ranking minority member on the Intelligence Committee has a conflict of interest that he failed to disclose before he took a central role in these investigatory hearings, substantial amounts having taken place behind closed doors for security reasons. It seems Leo Parnas was helping Nunes set up meetings and spread disinformation casting doubt on the Mueller investigation.

So, one of the prime suspects in Giuliani's web of intrigue and shadow foreign policy has been cavorting with Nunes and three aides, including Derek Harvey, who charged American taxpayers for a $63K European fact-finding adventure last year, some of which was dedicated to undermining the investigation into our president's dealings with Russia which assisted with his 2016 election. 

Seems that lying isn't restricted to the POTUS... or is he the POUTUS these days?

BTW, Fruman and Parnas' lawyer used to be John Dowd, who also represents Trump. But both fired Dows after Trump denied knowing the men, and hired a new lawyer who has indicated that his clients are considering testifying to what they know.

@Dog and @warbird please feel free to wait until you've received your talking points on these issues. The principals involved seem to be undermining all your "principled" attempts to defend them, so you may well need some time to gather "your" thoughts. We are all sure they will entail whining about process and insisting that corrupt Republicans are innocent until proven guilty.

How does he not get kicked off the intelligence committee over this?

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5 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

I actually feel sorry for millions of innocent Republicans these days. Their world is come crashing down, and they have to realize they have been conned, or else betray American ideals. I hope and pray enough will reject the cult of personality which has infested their leadership and spark a rise of true patriotism and newfound respect for the traditions and pains of democracy.

We need a healthy, vibrant debate to inform our country's progress, and the GOP has too long assumed they can distract their electorate and minimize the impact of the rest of the nation. Winning elections without the popular vote has become their brand. Ignoring fiscal and scientific realities has become their speciality. They need to fucking wake up and a pail of water dumped over their fat, lazy carcasses is the shock our country needs right now. 

Get up, bitches, and get back to work. Stop your rent seeking and quit living off the labors of others. There is a nation of citizens and you can no longer abrogate responsibility for our future.

I have no idea why you can't just come out with it.  Prevaricating...

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33 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

How does he not get kicked off the intelligence committee over this?

Highlighted for your edification.

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2 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Circumstantial?  Josh Peterson was convicted of his wife's murder.  No one saw him do it.  He told everyone he didn't do it.  They called all kinds of people to the stand.  Not one to of them saw him do it.  But they did give motive and context.  There was a receipt that placed him near the Bay.  But all of the evidence was circumstantial.  He's in prison.

The stupidity of Republicans is astonishing.

Did you mean Scott Peterson?  Lacy's husband.

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Hill's testimony today makes it very clear, Bolton was telling his people one thing and Trump was telling his something else. Trump told Sondland and the other two Pendejos to follow Rudy's lead, but he never told John Bolton to do so, and it appears likely Trump didn't tell Pompeo to follow Rudy's lead either...but I suspect that is moot...Pompeo is unlikely to be allowed to testify. Trump can't stop Bolton from testifying though.

Clearly John Bolton is now key. I think he will probably be making an appearance before the Senate. 

  Should be entertaining. 

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8 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Hill's testimony today makes it very clear, Bolton was telling his people one thing and Trump was telling his something else. Trump told Sondland and the other two Pendejos to follow Rudy's lead, but he never told John Bolton to do so, and it appears likely Trump didn't tell Pompeo to follow Rudy's lead either...but I suspect that is moot...Pompeo is unlikely to be allowed to testify. Trump can't stop Bolton from testifying though.

Clearly John Bolton is now key. I think he will probably be making an appearance before the Senate. 

  Should be entertaining. 

It will be interesting to see who peels away from Trump in an effort to salvage something from the wreckage. It's not going to get any better for him.

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43 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

It will be interesting to see who peels away from Trump in an effort to salvage something from the wreckage. It's not going to get any better for him.

That would make the Senators at the meal with Trump today an interesting lot.  Sort of an et tu, Brutus sort of coffee klatch in the making.  I wonder what sort of feeling Our Beautiful President got in his gut as he gazed over that gathering of vicious and desperate vultures.  Smile!  Eat! 

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Did he feed them something better than hamberders?

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53 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Did he feed them something better than hamberders?

I recall reading somewhere that the Pres gets billed for the food served at the White House which makes us understand what a miserable tight assed bastard he really is.

Cold  Maccas you gotta be shitting me!

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9 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

256832BD-817A-4CC9-8CAB-8B79683A9689.jpeg

That's an interesting point.

Trump has been allowed to get away with this sort of nepotistic (perhaps corrupt?)  bullshit ever since he was sworn in..appointing donors and "friends" to powerful positions..one can hardly wonder if he himself actually can't see the difference between this and what he's done with the Ukraine president..Republicans only have themselves to blame for not sitting on him hard sooner .

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18 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Republicans only have themselves to blame for not sitting on him hard sooner .

Hard to sit on a tantrum filled toddler, jus sayin

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12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

No he doesn't. Dog doesn't know anything bad about Trump and never will. It's a funny thing about particle physics, as the fundamental particles of a valid statement or "factons" approaches the right-wing brain, time slows and the factons becomes transparent and go right over their head.

- DSK

Good hate.

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12 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-texas-apple-plant_n_5dd5d2d0e4b010f3f1d23b41

 

Trump Boasted About A 'New' Apple Plant In Texas. It Opened In 2013.

POLITICS

11/20/2019 09:07 pm ET

Trump Boasted About A ‘New’ Apple Plant In Texas. It Opened In 2013.

The president was touring a facility in Austin, Texas, with Apple CEO Tim Cook.

The New York Times’ Jack Nicas noted shortly after the event that Apple has not, in fact, built any new plants in the U.S. since Trump’s election and that the vast majority of its products are still made overseas.

 

Well now you do :lol:

 

Thanks...Dumb thing to say.

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11 hours ago, Sean said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/graham-launches-probe-into-bidens-burisma-and-ukraine/2019/11/21/5a5675b4-0ca5-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

Graham launches probe of Bidens, Burisma and Ukraine

Excerpt -

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey O. Graham sent a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday requesting documents related to former vice president Joe Biden and his communications with Ukrainian officials, a step seen as a GOP effort to counter the House impeachment investigation of President Trump.

The inquiry by Graham (R-S.C.) is focused on any calls Biden may have had with Petro Poroshenko, then the Ukrainian president, regarding the firing of the country’s top prosecutor, as well as any that referenced an investigation of Burisma, the Ukrainian natural-gas company that employed Biden’s son Hunter Biden.

Yeah....I think Biden is going to be collateral damage in this impeachment effort.

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

Yeah....I think Biden is going to be collateral damage in this impeachment effort.

Probably, but a clean slate is needed. New younger blood. so it may be sad but not bad.

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Seems pretty smart to me. Keep the Bullshit Machine focused on someone who isn’t going to be the nominee until it is to late to gin up a bullshit narrative for the bullshitters to spread around. 

Biden isn’t going to be a casualty of the impeachment process. The bullshitters were going to take him apart anyway. Rudy was working on it before the impeachment process, during it, and he’ll be doing it after the Senate double checks the party affiliation. 

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1 hour ago, Dog said:
13 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-texas-apple-plant_n_5dd5d2d0e4b010f3f1d23b41

 

Trump Boasted About A 'New' Apple Plant In Texas. It Opened In 2013.

POLITICS

11/20/2019 09:07 pm ET

Trump Boasted About A ‘New’ Apple Plant In Texas. It Opened In 2013.

The president was touring a facility in Austin, Texas, with Apple CEO Tim Cook.

The New York Times’ Jack Nicas noted shortly after the event that Apple has not, in fact, built any new plants in the U.S. since Trump’s election and that the vast majority of its products are still made overseas.

 

Well now you do :lol:

 

Thanks...Dumb thing to say.

Oh, that was a vicious condemnation of his lie.  Careful with how strenuously criticize the words of your Dear Leader.

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13 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

No he doesn't. Dog doesn't know anything bad about Trump and never will. It's a funny thing about particle physics, as the fundamental particles of a valid statement or "factons" approaches the right-wing brain, time slows and the factons becomes transparent and go right over their head.

- DSK

Borrowing this.

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Is there a sequel in the works?

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/22/impeachment-robert-mueller-072698

Excerpt -

Right now, impeachment is all about Ukraine. But after Thanksgiving, prepare for a Robert Mueller reprise. 

Now that House Democrats have wrapped up public hearings on President Donald Trump’s pressure campaign to get Ukraine to launch politically advantageous investigations, there are plans to hold at least one public impeachment hearing on Trump’s misdeeds as alleged in the special counsel’s report.

It’s a gathering that could fuel articles of impeachment beyond those tied to the Ukraine controversy. Democrats say they have new Mueller-related fodder after Roger Stone’s recent trial raised questions about whether Trump provided false statements to the special counsel’s team. And the hearing could even feature a star witness — former White House counsel Don McGahn. A judge is set to rule in the coming days on whether McGahn must comply with a House subpoena.

“This is something that’s unbelievably serious and it’s happening right now, very fast,” House counsel Doug Letter, who consults closely with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, told a federal appeals court during a hearing in the Mueller evidence case.

House leadership signaled the plans in court filings and oral arguments this week, as the Democrats’ attorneys fought to get McGahn’s testimony, as well as access to more of the evidence Mueller used to write his final report.

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

That's an interesting point.

Trump has been allowed to get away with this sort of nepotistic (perhaps corrupt?)  bullshit ever since he was sworn in..appointing donors and "friends" to powerful positions..one can hardly wonder if he himself actually can't see the difference between this and what he's done with the Ukraine president..Republicans only have themselves to blame for not sitting on him hard sooner .

The GOP doesn’t sit on Trump, Trump sits on the GOP. The Trump GOP is now a cult. The only thing the Dear Leader could do to alienate the faithful is switch parties. 

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38 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Oh, that was a vicious condemnation of his lie.  Careful with how strenuously criticize the words of your Dear Leader.

Whatever

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

That's an interesting point.

Trump has been allowed to get away with this sort of nepotistic (perhaps corrupt?)  bullshit ever since he was sworn in..appointing donors and "friends" to powerful positions..one can hardly wonder if he himself actually can't see the difference between this and what he's done with the Ukraine president..Republicans only have themselves to blame for not sitting on him hard sooner .

The ambassador thing has been done for longer than I have been alive, so this little bit of corruption is not new.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The GOP doesn’t sit on Trump, Trump sits on the GOP. The Trump GOP is now a cult. The only thing the Dear Leader could do to alienate the faithful is switch parties. 

 

Since I read "Art of the Deal", probably 3 decades ago or more, I have known that Trump is a despicable human being, and now has proven to be the worst and most corrupt POTUS our country has ever had. 

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20 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The ambassador thing has been done for longer than I have been alive, so this little bit of corruption is not new.

yes. But obviously it's nuanced. 

"Back me and If I win I'll give you a job"

"Help me win or I'll  let your(actually endangered) house burn to the ground" 

Sadly some are completely blind to the difference.

 

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

yes. But obviously it's nuanced. 

"Back me and If I win I'll give you a job"

"Help me win or I'll  let your(actually endangered) house burn to the ground" 

Sadly some are completely blind to the difference.

 

What are you talking about? For all of Trumps crimes, threatening someone into being an ambassador is not one of them. These jobs are rewards for big donors, not punishments. The career people at State have been annoyed at unqualified rich people getting these jobs for probably at least 100 years or so.

Trump DID fire someone for NOT helping his bullshit scheme, which is a bit of a nuanced area. He legally can fire every single ambassador every other Friday for no reason at all. What he did to Ms. Yovanovitch is not illegal as a stand alone act, but it may be as part of the larger scheme. This would also be a time to note all kinds of people in government can do really horrible things and stay within the letter of the law, we just have a couple centuries of tradition and precedent that they don't. A president could order the Army to march into a volcano, but so far none of them have for one example :rolleyes:

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14 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Circumstantial?  Josh Peterson was convicted of his wife's murder.  No one saw him do it.  He told everyone he didn't do it.  They called all kinds of people to the stand.  Not one to of them saw him do it.  But they did give motive and context.  There was a receipt that placed him near the Bay.  But all of the evidence was circumstantial.  He's in prison.

The stupidity of Republicans is astonishing.

Charles Manson did him one better - he wasn't even there for the first 5 murders and still was found guilty.  But then again, the jury didn't include Manson Family members.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The GOP doesn’t sit on Trump, Trump sits on the GOP. The Trump GOP is now a cult. The only thing the Dear Leader could do to alienate the faithful is switch parties. 

No.  That wouldn't matter.  His cult would follow him.  Lemmings can't think for themselves.

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37 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:
4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

That's an interesting point.

Trump has been allowed to get away with this sort of nepotistic (perhaps corrupt?)  bullshit ever since he was sworn in..appointing donors and "friends" to powerful positions..one can hardly wonder if he himself actually can't see the difference between this and what he's done with the Ukraine president..Republicans only have themselves to blame for not sitting on him hard sooner .

The ambassador thing has been done for longer than I have been alive, so this little bit of corruption is not new.

It's not new, though usually the Pay-for-play ambassador gets shipped someplace comfortable with good food, pliant women, and zero political impact on global geopolitics - or to allies so friendly it's nearly impossible to fuck up.

Putting your pay-for-play ambassador in charge of something like the EU while tasking him as your political errand boy is outside the norm.

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

What are you talking about? For all of Trumps crimes, threatening someone into being an ambassador is not one of them. These jobs are rewards for big donors, not punishments. The career people at State have been annoyed at unqualified rich people getting these jobs for probably at least 100 years or so.

Trump DID fire someone for NOT helping his bullshit scheme, which is a bit of a nuanced area. He legally can fire every single ambassador every other Friday for no reason at all. What he did to Ms. Yovanovitch is not illegal as a stand alone act, but it may be as part of the larger scheme. This would also be a time to note all kinds of people in government can do really horrible things and stay within the letter of the law, we just have a couple centuries of tradition and precedent that they don't. A president could order the Army to march into a volcano, but so far none of them have for one example :rolleyes:

what? hmmm you don't get it either.

My first example is what any one can do..with degrees of reasonableness.

I can say to you.."help me harvest this field and I'll give you a job (I am testing your worth with a task) and the job is mine to gift.

A polly can say to a campaign worker..help me win an election (or to a donor) and I'll give you a job if I win. The job may be as a PA, where it's prolly mine to gift, handing our ambassadorships is a little murkier.

"Help me win an election or I will withhold help you need to survive..is coercion" putting an onerous burden on the donor of aid. and a crime. 

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38 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The ambassador thing has been done for longer than I have been alive, so this little bit of corruption is not new.

But Trump has found people who take appointed positions who haven't found a line in the sand they aren't willing cross so long as they benefit in some way. 

Sondland believed Trump made him Overlord of Europe, and beyond, and there was no way he was going to let that gig go until he realized his next gig could be jail.

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6 minutes ago, Jules said:

No.  That wouldn't matter.  His cult would follow him.  Lemmings can't think for themselves.

I don’t think so. The Faithful understand that democRATS are America’s real enemy. Case in point, the Good Patriots in the “I’d rather be Russian than democrat” shirts. Have you seen anyone here disclaiming that sentiment in any way?

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20 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Since I read "Art of the Deal", probably 3 decades ago or more, I have known that Trump is a despicable human being, and now has proven to be the worst and most corrupt POTUS our country has ever had. 

Which is quite the accomplishment given he is less than 3yrs into his first term where President's seeking reelection are on their best behavior.  I shudder to think of how he will behave with no more elections to win.  

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t think so. The Faithful understand that democRATS are America’s real enemy. Case in point, the Good Patriots in the “I’d rather be Russian than democrat” shirts. Have you seen anyone here disclaiming that sentiment in any way?

Trump is a master of crowd reading.  He'd spin them up and before you know it they would be wearing, "I'd Rather Be Russian Than Republican." 

Of course, right now, there is no difference between the two, other than the language barrier.

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5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

what? hmmm you don't get it either.

My first example is what any one can do..with degrees of reasonableness.

I can say to you.."help me harvest this field and I'll give you a job (I am testing your worth with a task) and the job is mine to gift.

A polly can say to a campaign worker..help me win an election (or to a donor) and I'll give you a job if I win. The job may be as a PA, where it's prolly mine to gift, handing our ambassadorships is a little murkier.

"Help me win an election or I will withhold help you need to survive..is coercion" putting an onerous burden on the donor of aid. and a crime. 

You are conflating giving jobs to friends to extortion of an entire country. It is a bit confusing to follow your post. Trump can give out ambassadorships as rewards for political/financial help and most presidents do this. Trump cannot extort campaign help from other countries legally, but that never stopped him before so why start now?

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4 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Which is quite the accomplishment given he is less than 3yrs into his first term where President's seeking reelection are on their best behavior.  I shudder to think of how he will behave with no more elections to win.  

History will talk of Trump the savior.  The man who wrested the country from socialism and brought it to the glorious state it is in today, where the citizens are safe under the kindness and caring of the Oligarchs. 

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9 minutes ago, Jules said:

History will talk of Trump the savior.  The man who wrested the country from socialism and brought it to the glorious state it is in today, where the citizens are safe under the kindness and caring of the Oligarchs. 

 

79D2D94C-DDA5-4012-8F75-9FDCCAD4FB91.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Whatever

And here is the crux of the actual problem and the reason why America is doomed.  Trump supporters actially see and hear his lies and corruption but don't care.  The downfall of the USA lies squarely on the should of the idiots like you.  Or maybe it isn't idiocy.  Maybe you and the rest of the Trumpaloos are just as dishonest and corrupt.

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2 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

And here is the crux of the actual problem and the reason why America is doomed.  Trump supporters actially see and hear his lies and corruption but don't care.  The downfall of the USA lies squarely on the should of the idiots like you.  Or maybe it isn't idiocy.  Maybe you and the rest of the Trumpaloos are just as dishonest and corrupt.

They excuse ANYTHING because "Democrats are worse".

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6 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

And here is the crux of the actual problem and the reason why America is doomed.  Trump supporters actially see and hear his lies and corruption but don't care.  The downfall of the USA lies squarely on the should of the idiots like you.  Or maybe it isn't idiocy.  Maybe you and the rest of the Trumpaloos are just as dishonest and corrupt.

Dishonest and corrupt or just flat out lazy and stupid?  Kind of folks who when you piss on them they are convinced it is raining.

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Count me as one who prefers to pretty much ignore anyone who vilifies and berates all those with whom they disagree. 
      I do not understand why any of you believe you will sway the opinions of others by calling them names. 
     (Note: I am not attempting to sway Gropenfuhrer. I as m trying to break his followers loose from his very effective mind control)

        I currently have great sympathy for my Republican friends. They are mostly very moral, by the book, no nonsense patriots. Many are retired military who prefer adherence to strict protocol. 
        Through whatever it was that happened in 2016, they now find themselves with Gropenfuhrer as their POTUS. The man has no sense whatsoever of truth, patriotism, duty, protocol, Christian values, and is in every way opposite of that which was Republican when Eisenhower or George HW Bush served as POTUS.

but.... at least we share our distain for the individual. My old Republican friends and I agree, that shithead pussy grabbing narcissist is not someone with whom any of us would spend personal time.

We still haven’t come together on whether he should ever have been allowed to move himself and his cronies into the White House or when he should be evicted  but we seem to agree the building needs to be thoroughly disinfected.

 

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13 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

....    ...

but.... at least we share our distain for the individual. My old Republican friends and I agree, that shithead pussy grabbing narcissist is not someone with whom any of us would spend personal time.

....

 

Personal time, hell

Would you leave him alone in a room with a child?

- DSK

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

They excuse ANYTHING because "Democrats are worse".

Worse than that, they are the enemy.  We even had a goofball here who said "liberals are my enemy."  And the libruls in the caricature painted by talking heads quite possibly ARE his enemy, irrespective of the relationship to reality between what the bullshit artists portray libruls as, and what libruls actually are.  Once you start to believe that people want to destroy your country, it's hard to talk to them to find out what they actually want. 

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22 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

  I currently have great sympathy for my Republican friends. They are mostly very moral, by the book, no nonsense patriots. Many are retired military who prefer adherence to strict protocol. 

If they were those things, they would not be supporting this President.  At some point one's actions are a reflection of their character, is it not?

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Liberal = Generous = Sharing = Giving

Conservative = Stingy = Taking = I've got mine, you can go fuck yourself......

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

And here is the crux of the actual problem and the reason why America is doomed.  Trump supporters actially see and hear his lies and corruption but don't care.  The downfall of the USA lies squarely on the should of the idiots like you.  Or maybe it isn't idiocy.  Maybe you and the rest of the Trumpaloos are just as dishonest and corrupt.

ofgs...The "whatever" applied to Bus Driver's tedious petty personal attacks. He's the gossipy old lady who lives across the street.. Read it again....slowly.

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

ofgs...The "whatever" applied to Bus Driver's tedious petty personal attacks. He's the gossipy old lady who lives across the street.. Read it again....slowly.

Does calling you out as a vociferous cheerleader of President Trump hurt your widdle feelings?

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

Does calling you out as a vociferous cheerleader of President Trump hurt your widdle feelings?

No

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12 minutes ago, Dog said:

ofgs...The "whatever" applied to Bus Driver's tedious petty personal attacks. He's the gossipy old lady who lives across the street.. Read it again....slowly.

Guess that makes you the senile bitch rambling with conspiracy theory next door. Of course any reply is useful to you; you don't give a fuck what we say as long as you can disrupt debate to keep your boy Shitstain in power spending billions on a comfort wall that doesn't do shit but salve your dumb racist fears.

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

 

Guess that makes you the senile bitch rambling with conspiracy theory next door. Of course any reply is useful to you; you don't give a fuck what we say as long as you can disrupt debate to keep your boy Shitstain in power spending billions on a comfort wall that doesn't do shit but salve your dumb racist fears.

Whatever.

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6 hours ago, Dog said:

Yeah....I think Biden is going to be collateral damage in this impeachment effort.

I don't mind tossing out the legal influence peddling, as well as long as we get rid of the blatantly illegal corruption as well.   Illegally using government apparatus and influence to attack ones political opponent for legally gaming our frustrating system is only good in the Republican Universe, and its look alike, Htrae.    

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I don't know how the democRATS can investigate this without hearing from Lev Parnas and John Bolton. Subpoena their asses. If there is a concern about sensitive testimony, there is a mechanism for deposing them privately, in the presence of both Americans and democRATS, regardless of what the bullshit artists would have us believe. Don't just go through the motions, get it right. Investigate. 

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Bolton has a book to sell, thus his recent tweets. 

Republicans have their job to protect, thus their blindness to the facts.

It's always about the money.

The Dems have the difficult position of being all that's left to protect the Republic and save our Democracy from further erosion.  If they uphold the Constitution and the Rule of Law, they might get to also keep their jobs.  But if the money wins, we all lose. 

 

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Since I read "Art of the Deal", probably 3 decades ago or more, I have known that Trump is a despicable human being, and now has proven to be the worst and most corrupt POTUS our country has ever had. 

Or ever will have.

So there's that - sort of like taking horrible tasting medicine.

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14 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don't know how the democRATS can investigate this without hearing from Lev Parnas and John Bolton. Subpoena their asses. If there is a concern about sensitive testimony, there is a mechanism for deposing them privately, in the presence of both Americans and democRATS, regardless of what the bullshit artists would have us believe. Don't just go through the motions, get it right. Investigate. 

+1000000000

 

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Count me as one who prefers to pretty much ignore anyone who vilifies and berates all those with whom they disagree. 
      I do not understand why any of you believe you will sway the opinions of others by calling them names. 
     (Note: I am not attempting to sway Gropenfuhrer. I as m trying to break his followers loose from his very effective mind control)

        I currently have great sympathy for my Republican friends. They are mostly very moral, by the book, no nonsense patriots. Many are retired military who prefer adherence to strict protocol. 
        Through whatever it was that happened in 2016, they now find themselves with Gropenfuhrer as their POTUS. The man has no sense whatsoever of truth, patriotism, duty, protocol, Christian values, and is in every way opposite of that which was Republican when Eisenhower or George HW Bush served as POTUS.

but.... at least we share our distain for the individual. My old Republican friends and I agree, that shithead pussy grabbing narcissist is not someone with whom any of us would spend personal time.

We still haven’t come together on whether he should ever have been allowed to move himself and his cronies into the White House or when he should be evicted  but we seem to agree the building needs to be thoroughly disinfected.

 

They probably loath him and they'll probably vote for him again.

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

They probably loath him and they'll probably vote for him again.

Although many would say R over USA, I think many R now believe the D are anti American. 
It  is mighty strange indeed

 

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25 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

They probably loath him and they'll probably vote for him again.

If the alternative is open borders, abolishing ICE and tax payer funded social services to anyone who walks across they will. If the alternative is a Green new Deal they will. If the alternative is Medicare for all and the elimination of the health insurance industry they will. If the alternative is no plan to grow the economy they will. If the alternative is a wealth tax they will. If the alternative is reparations they will....

 

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10 minutes ago, Dog said:

If the alternative is open borders, abolishing ICE and tax payer funded social services to anyone who walks across they will. If the alternative is a Green new Deal they will. If the alternative is Medicare for all and the elimination of the health insurance industry they will. If the alternative is no plan to grow the economy they will. If the alternative is a wealth tax they will. If the alternative is reparations they will....

 

Sold out gold!  And charmingly old school to boot.  A walk down memory lane.....

Go Mayor Pete!!

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19 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

I found this interesting as it relates to why Trumpaloos keep on Trumping...

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-appeals-men-fragile-masculinity-1236701

And I would bet that many of them compensate by wearing camo, having tats, driving big ass pickups that have never seen real work, and have an NRA sticker on the bumper.

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I fear the fever won’t break anytime soon -

WaPo opinion -

Trump’s GOP defenders cannot be shamed. It’s time to try this instead.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/22/trumps-gop-defenders-cannot-be-shamed-its-time-democrats-try-this-instead/

Excerpt -

It’s time to drop the posture that Trump’s defenders can be shamed into accepting what has been unearthed, or that they can be shamed into arguing from a baseline of shared democratic values, or into arguing over how to interpret a comprehensive set of shared facts.

Instead, let’s rhetorically treat Trump’s defenders as his criminal accomplices. Not just as “enablers” of Trump’s corruption but as active participants in it.

Once this is accepted, it becomes obvious why they can’t be “won over,” because they are actively engaged in keeping the corruption in question from getting fully uncovered, in the belief that they, too, benefit from it, and that they, too, lose out if it’s exposed.

The notion that Trump’s defenders can be shamed into facing up to what has happened here is all-pervasive. It includes the have-you-no-shame lectures delivered to Republicans who smeared Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman for supposed dual loyalties.

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