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Saugus High School Shooting: One Dead, Two Critical, Three Others Wounded

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One person was killed and two others are in critical condition today after a shooting at Saugus High School, in a community roughly 30 miles north of Hollywood. At least one victim is in critical condition at Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital.

https://deadline.com/2019/11/saugus-high-school-active-shooter-s-1202785957/

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Ho Hum image.png.a794696582745b6390696c7959b85e1a.png

T&P from the NRA & gun nutters.

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16 Y.O. boy on his birthday 

waiting for a motive and how he got hold of the gun...

 

Sad day as i sit here with my students in an after school music club and HOPE that this NEVER happens here

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25 minutes ago, dacapo said:

HOPE that this NEVER happens here

sadly Oz is but a decade in arrears :(

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And 250,000,000 guns

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At least the families of the victims will be able to sue the gun manufacturer much like other companies such as Monsanto (Roundup) JnJ (baby powder) and Juul who also knowingly make and manufacture products that are public health hazards.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

And 250,000,000 guns

that too 

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The saddest moment when I heard about this was when I found myself barely emotionally affected.  Christ, that woke me up.  What have we become?

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45ish miles from Thousand Oaks.  Home of the Borderline Bar.  Remember that place?

They're starting to happen closer together.  

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22 minutes ago, Mike G said:

45ish miles from Thousand Oaks.  Home of the Borderline Bar.  Remember that place?

They're starting to happen closer together. everywhere.

FTFY

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Was at the 126 and 5 this morning and noticed first responders hauling ass.   Didn't know the reason at the time.

Getting closer.

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One good thing about the impending DemocRAT take back of the house is that the CDC will be allowed to research and report in a scientific manner on this public health menace.

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6 hours ago, Fakenews said:

One good thing about the impending DemocRAT take back of the house is that the CDC will be allowed to research and report in a scientific manner on this public health menace.

That's good, since nothing has ever stopped them before.  Obama ordered them to do a gun study back in 2012 and no one made a peep about it at the time.  

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I wonder how a 16 year old got a gun in the strictest gun control state in the nation?  If the parents were negligent about storage and access, I hope they are arrested and charged with murder as well.  

And yet not a single one of the inevitable flurry of laws that will be proposed in the wake of this will address that fundamental problem that I've been talking about for years here.  

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48 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I wonder how a 16 year old got a gun in the strictest gun control state in the nation?  If the parents were negligent about storage and access, I hope they are arrested and charged with murder as well.  

And yet not a single one of the inevitable flurry of laws that will be proposed in the wake of this will address that fundamental problem that I've been talking about for years here.  

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this

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10 hours ago, Fakenews said:

At least the families of the victims will be able to sue the gun manufacturer much like other companies such as Monsanto (Roundup) JnJ (baby powder) and Juul who also knowingly make and manufacture products that are public health hazards.

That's the "negligent entrustment" argument that was expressly rejected by the CT Supreme Court in the case you're referencing, Bull Gator.

Here's what they said:

Quote

The only plausible way to construe that claim—and we do not understand the plaintiffs to deny this—is that any commercial sale of assault weapons to civilian users constitutes negligent entrustment because the social costs of such sales outweigh the perceived benefits. Other courts have rejected such a theory, as do we.

 

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Major police presence at school, this morning.  "Wanding" kids as they head to class.  Welcome to the new "normal".

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I wonder how a 16 year old got a gun in the strictest gun control state in the nation?  If the parents were negligent about storage and access, I hope they are arrested and charged with murder as well.  

And yet not a single one of the inevitable flurry of laws that will be proposed in the wake of this will address that fundamental problem that I've been talking about for years here.  

There should be strict liability for such a scenario. Rights come with responsibilities.  

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2 hours ago, learningJ24 said:

The price of "freedom".

Yeah, what's a few dead schoolchildren compared to the really important stuff like AR 15's?

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29 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah, what's a few dead schoolchildren compared to the really important stuff like AR 15's?

But there are places where these snowflakes can feel all warm and fuzzy with their toys.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2019/11/14/rural-wisconsin-county-designates-itself-2nd-amendment-sanctuary/4194164002/

Forest County, WI has declared itself a 2nd Amendment sanctuary.  It joins counties in Va, Fla, and Tenn in declaring themselves to be gun sanctuaries.  Some profoundly crazy folks out there and many hold elective office.

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Are they going to set up armories where private citizens can store backup weapons in case the Dem's take over?

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16 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Are they going to set up armories where private citizens can store backup weapons in case the Dem's take over?

We'll probably just act like Canadians are acting and have "boating accidents" involving our previously-legal property.

Isn't anyone who is not a Presidential candidate going to point out the need to DO SOMETHING?

I mean other than Bill Clinton, of course.
 

Quote

 

Former President Bill Clinton and current presidential candidate Kamala Harris both went on CNN to call for a ban on "assault weapons." But the shooter used a .45 semi-automatic pistol, a weapon unlikely to be covered by even the broadest assault weapons ban.

A Los Angles Times editorial noted that the killer is 16 and then declared that "it's not a leap to say that no 16-year-old should have ready access to a firearm outside the immediate supervision of an adult." The fact that the minimum age to purchase a handgun in California is 21 didn't warrant a mention.

...

Others noted that some schools have reacted to mass shootings by performing traumatizing shooter drills—and cited that bad policy to justify yet more bad policies. "Every politician paid to defend the status quo by the gun lobby needs to answer whether they are comfortable with live shooter drills becoming routine, students running terrified from their classrooms, and entire communities being locked down," former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords told The New York Times.

It needn't be repeated that school shootings are a terrible and tragic thing. It does need to be repeated that these are also rare, and that the long-term trend has been for them to happen less often, not more often.

 

Sorry for the interruption. The chorus can now get back to the main point of this thread.

DiFiScreenshotTruth.jpg

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Can't you all concentrate on more than one of these episodes at a time? or are they so frequent now that one washes out another

The boy is dead.

Sad.

This one doesn't fit

 http://www.startribune.com/california-school-shooter-dies-with-motive-a-mystery/565030502/

 

Authorities said it's not yet clear why Berhow carried out the deadly assault, which occurred on his sixteenth birthday. He did not leave behind a diary or a manifesto, and he has not been linked to any violent ideology or group. 

They do, however, believe the attack was planned, citing the fact that Berhow used the last bullet in the gun to shoot himself. It's not clear how Berhow obtained the gun — authorities said it was not one of the six guns in his home registered to his deceased father, although they noted that there were also several unregistered firearms in the home. 

 

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Can't you all concentrate on more than one of these episodes at a time? or are they so frequent now that one washes out another

They are so common in the USA now that they are just background noise. They are about as newsworthy as fatal car accidents.

Incidents that would be national news for weeks here don't even get a mention if they are in the USA.

More than one per day this year.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-mass-shootings-than-days-so-far-this-year/

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On 11/15/2019 at 1:18 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

I wonder how a 16 year old got a gun in the strictest gun control state in the nation?  If the parents were negligent about storage and access, I hope they are arrested and charged with murder as well. 

 

Why should the parents be held responsible? Since when is not locking up your tools a crime?

Heck, I leave a rusty cable winch, a crowbar, a cheap torque wrench and assorted screwdrivers in the back of my open-bed pickup truck. Is that a crime on me if someone steals my cable winch to beat someone senseless?

Unless ... what if guns aren't really "tools"? Or maybe, the gun is the tool to shoot the bullet, so is the bullet a tool too? 

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The gun nutterz are the tools in this discussion.

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48 minutes ago, BrickTopHarry said:

Probably will get its own thread, but:

 

Quote

Probably will get its own thread

yep

 

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0mNhX_JlXdjkHtYqBHpU

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australians-then-what-happened-australia

cba74e45dbbc629d7f7f79a1f1d53563.jpg

I just thought I'd post about someone else's country's politics that don't affect me in the slightest.  It seems like the new thing around here....

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Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

I just thought I'd post about someone else's country's politics that don't affect me in the slightest.

Are you really such a dimwit that you don't comprehend that the politics in the USA affect the whole world?

Really?

That's pretty fuckin' dim.

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insular twat , we all live on the same planet .

 

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7 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
10 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I just thought I'd post about someone else's country's politics that don't affect me in the slightest.

Are you really such a dimwit that you don't comprehend that the politics in the USA affect the whole world?

Really?

That's pretty fuckin' dim.

FP yes.  How does our domestic policy, this one in particular, affect the WHOLE world?

Dim indeed.

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Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

Dim indeed.

Self awareness is a good thing. Keep working on it.

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8 minutes ago, Mid said:

insular twat , we all live on the same planet .

 

Speaking of insular twats, here's a gem from one of your mates. 

20140818-fb-page-id-327442417394528-abo-

Rocks, glass houses......  Just saying.

 

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Self awareness is a good thing. Keep working on it.

So again, you studiously avoid the question.  How does US domestic policy affect the entire world, writ large?

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Damn, I thought you had made a little progress but you stumble yet again.

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4 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

How does US domestic policy affect the entire world,

yep that is a direct quote from jeff :rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Mid said:
6 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

How does US domestic policy affect the entire world,

yep that is a direct quote from jeff :rolleyes:

Well goody for you, you can sorta read.  Now can you answer the question?  C'mon give it a try.......  I know you can do it.  You too sloopy, jump on in there.

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sad to see that an 'merican thinks killiing his nations children is a domestic issue .................................

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13 minutes ago, Mid said:

sad to see that an 'merican thinks killiing his nations children is a domestic issue .................................

It's 'Murican.  Please get it right in future postings.  Thanks.

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On 11/18/2019 at 11:12 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

So again, you studiously avoid the question.  How does US domestic policy affect the entire world, writ large?

How about "easy access to guns in the US mean that illegal guns are smuggled into Mexico and  Canada by criminals and used in commission of crimes"

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22 minutes ago, Zonker said:
On 11/19/2019 at 11:12 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

So again, you studiously avoid the question.  How does US domestic policy affect the entire world, writ large?

How about "easy access to guns in the US mean that illegal guns are smuggled into Mexico and  Canada by criminals and used in commission of crimes"

Well, first of all - I was not aware that Mexico and Canuckistan were "the whole world" that @Mid was talking about.  That's a very myopic view, but I digress.

2ndly - I don't think all those full-auto AK-47s and M-16s the Cartels in Mexico are typically using are coming from the Bass Pro Shop in Phoenix or El Paso.  Furthermore, If you have any evadents that there is a big illicit trade of US gunz into Canada that accounts for most of your violent gun crime, I'd be interested to see it.

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19 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Furthermore, If you have any evadents that there is a big illicit trade of US gunz into Canada that accounts for most of your violent gun crime, I'd be interested to see it.

The answer seems to be that about half of guns used in Canadian crimes come from the US.

You can buy an assault weapon at Cabela's in Canada. Like the US, they have a problem with "boating accidents" claiming previously-legal guns, which might explain why they can't solve their half of the problem that Zonker noted.

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's a very myopic view, but I digress.

That's O/K - it's what we expect from you.

WTF do you think the illegal guns in Canada come from?

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Until recently (one news story says 2012) 75% of illegal guns were sourced from the US. In recent years, more straw buyers in Canada have overtaken that. It's still a substantial % of guns getting into criminal hands.  (CTV news is a pretty middle of the road new source BTW)

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/number-of-illegal-guns-in-canada-surged-in-recent-years-1.4025231

 

TORONTO - The number of guns obtained legally in Canada but are then sold to people who use them for criminal purposes has surged dramatically in recent years compared to firearms smuggled from the United States, Toronto police say. In recent years, they say, investigators have noticed a stark shift in where guns used to commit crimes are coming from.

Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said.

 

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Could it be because we now have an adequate supply of American guns?

Do the ones sourced there prior to '12 now count as "domestic sources"?

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5 hours ago, Zonker said:

Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said.

The source I found had a chart that only went back to 2014 but it looks like "about half" has been true since then.

 
Quote

 

Source of crime guns seized by the Toronto Police Service
For firearms that could be traced

 

Year Domestically sourced U.S. sourced
2014 49 51
2015 56 44
2016 50 50
2017 45 55
2018 30 70

Source of crime guns seized by the Toronto Police Service

Toronto Police attribute the increase in foreign sourcing in 2018 to two large seizures by the guns-and-gangs unit.)

 

 
 

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And yet, still no one has said how US domestic policy affects the entire world - given I think we all universally agree that Canuckistan and Mexico are not the entire world.  

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4 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And yet, still no one has said how US domestic policy affects the entire world - given I think we all universally agree that Canuckistan and Mexico are not the entire world.  

Yes we are.

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12 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Yes we are.

OK Boomer

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if you are older than 30 please stop making yourself sound even more out of touch than you are just 'cause you saw this insult on Twitter last week.  

21 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

OK Boomer

 

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

if you are older than 30 please stop making yourself sound even more out of touch than you are just 'cause you saw this insult on Twitter last week.  

 

Ok Boomer. 

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Turns out the school shooter used a “ghost” assault weapon.  Assembled from a kit with no serial #’s it’s untraceable, unregistered, uninsured and the owner never passed a background check.

My reasonable proposal is that such guns be banned, anyone found with one sentenced to mandatory 5 year in federal prison and that those supplying the kit parts at gun shows be similarly imprisoned.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/us/saugus-shooting-ghost-gun/index.html

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9 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Turns out the school shooter used a “ghost” assault weapon.  Assembled from a kit with no serial #’s it’s untraceable, unregistered, uninsured and the owner never passed a background check.

My reasonable proposal is that such guns be banned, anyone found with one sentenced to mandatory 5 year in federal prison and that those supplying the kit parts at gun shows be similarly imprisoned.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/us/saugus-shooting-ghost-gun/index.html

Last I checked, it was already illegal to possess an unregistered weapon in Kali.  What does your "reasonable proposal" actually change?

Let's get one thing clear for the uninitiated here....  What they refer to as "Ghost gun" parts is actually ONE part - the receiver.  It is perfectly legal (at least in most states) to buy what is called an "80% Lower" in the case of an AR-15 where it is a machined blank and then you finish it by drilling the holes out and other minor finishing things.  Once you do that, the Lower (receiver) then becomes a firearm in the eyes of the BATF.  The barrel, the trigger, bolt and all the little parts like springs and such are not considered  any part of the controlled item.  Only the receiver is the ATF item.  In the case of a handgun, it is the frame - not the barrel or slide.  Although I think unlike rifles, most handguns commercially sold have a matching SN# on the barrel as well as the frame.  But those can legally be switched out at will. 

Anywho, back to the 80% Lower.  I've never done one, but I think once you complete it - you are supposed to then engrave a SN# and then keep a record of that gun.  It can be anything you want it to be....  from 00001 to "The ATF can Tongue My Brown Starfish".  As I said, I would suspect its still highly illegal in Kali to not only possess one of these much less make one.  So not sure what an additional law is going to do.  It also illustrates the difficulty in using bans/prohibition as a means to attempt to control this sort of behavior.  With modern tech, its exceedingly easy to make that 80% lower in your garage.  With a basic CNC machine, you can make an AR-15 from a block of aluminum billet.  Are we now going to outlaw aluminum?  

MilSpec_Forged_Right__50115.1560877918.j

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Last I checked, it was already illegal to possess an unregistered weapon in Kali.  What does your "reasonable proposal" actually change?

I see that Bull Gator has hidden his post claiming that the weapon used was an AR. It was a .45 handgun and a 16 year old bringing one to school breaks a list of California laws.

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On 11/21/2019 at 3:08 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

Ok Boomer. 

Ten Pinocchio's ^^^.  Jeffie goes freestyle with the facts pretty regularly.

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4 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

I see that Bull Gator has hidden his post claiming that the weapon used was an AR. It was a .45 handgun and a 16 year old bringing one to school breaks a list of California laws.

What a wonky presentation, more dogballs.

Sounds like @Fakenews might have corrected an inadvertant flub (which shows more honor than your sustained presentation if the basics of Miller case law). Then "BG" offered a scoop?

(CNN)The 16-year-old who killed two students and injured three others in a shooting at a California high school last week used a "ghost gun," Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva told CNN affiliate KABC

 

WTF? A fucking ghost gun, a typical gunshow item, is a player on the front pages? And in a school shooting, to boot? 

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9 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

With a basic CNC machine, you can make an AR-15 from a block of aluminum billet.  Are we now going to outlaw aluminum?  

MilSpec_Forged_Right__50115.1560877918.j

Even for a registered gun nutter that is an exceptionally stupid comment.

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Quote

With a basic CNC machine, you can make an AR-15 from a block of aluminum billet.  Are we now going to outlaw aluminum? 

 

With just a little gasoline, some oil, a beer bottle and a rag you can make a molotov cocktail.  Are we now going to outlaw gas, oil, bottles, and rags?

Sounds logical

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8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

 

With just a little gasoline, some oil, a beer bottle and a rag you can make a molotov cocktail.  Are we now going to outlaw gas, oil, bottles, and rags?

Sounds logical

Exactly.  Glad you get it finally.

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16 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Even for a registered gun nutter that is an exceptionally stupid comment.

Which part? Are you denying that you can make a lower from a block of AL?  

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The part that is what passes for your brain.

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17 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Exactly.  Glad you get it finally.

Totally.   And it's definitely illegal for the government to require people to give their ID to the clerk when they buy sudafed, right?

 

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10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

With a basic CNC machine, you can make an AR-15 from a block of aluminum billet.  Are we now going to outlaw aluminum?  

The favored approach seems to be to attempt to censor the needed computer code. Which, of course, causes people like me to spread it even further around cyberspace than it was already spread, as mentioned in the 14th most dangerous person in the world thread.

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59 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

The favored approach seems to be to attempt to censor the needed computer code. Which, of course, causes people like me to spread it even further around cyberspace than it was already spread, as mentioned in the 14th most dangerous person in the world thread.

If you and your elk want to be outlaws, so be it, but so much for your claims that your elk are squeaky clean types. Let's see how "unlawful use at the time" works out in the courts. Even your mama (and her elk) went after gun perps.

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