Editor

whatcha think?

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it ain't an ullman ad, because if it was, it wouldn't be here. ullman has deemed us unfit to advertise with. 

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i think it is a pretty slick video with good information and tools for a number of programs looking to improve.

i'm always surprised however, that most programs are not already heading in this direction or practicing this sort of style onboard.

too many boats and sailors or teams seem to try to reinvent the wheel in lieu of following the already proven techniques, strategies and skills.

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1 hour ago, full circle said:

i think it is a pretty slick video with good information and tools for a number of programs looking to improve.

i'm always surprised however, that most programs are not already heading in this direction or practicing this sort of style onboard.

too many boats and sailors or teams seem to try to reinvent the wheel in lieu of following the already proven techniques, strategies and skills.

Everyone needs to learn sometime. I will also mostly use it as a coaching aid.

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I sailed with Fast Wally one day at ILYA Bay Week 25 years ago an  IOR 36 footer.  I still remember how  the mood on the boat changed with one person simply calling the shots, no questions, no debates, no dissent.   Upwind, not much of a difference in performance.   Downwind, like night and day.      



 

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Good shit, Scooter.  Beats the dick off 99% crap posted here (mine included).  Reason to return.  More.  We want more.

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nobody has ever been accused of being too prepared, too organized, or spending too much time prepping.  That series will be full of good useful stuff

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28 minutes ago, crankcall said:

nobody has ever been accused of being too prepared, too organized, or spending too much time prepping.  That series will be full of good useful stuff

And the price is right.

MS

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Oh man... this just reminds me why I don't like racing so much.  I totally get how useful this all is, but it really just seems like work to me.  

To each their own!  I need to get paid if I'm optimizing and maximizing shit.  

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I think it is work, being really good at something for most folks doesn't come naturally, golfers hit thousands of balls, skiiers do hundreds of runs to get ready for that 'moment' . One of our more winning racers did a talk at our club one night about how he manages to be consistently fast. He starts his race about 2 hrs before the gun, checks weather, incoming weather, currents, does he have the inventory on board they will need, is there food/water/weed to keep everybody happy for the time they will be out there.

Its work alright, but that 10x14" nylon flag is priceless.

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Could be an excellent program. It probably puts things we should all think about in one place. As mentioned before, we can all learn. 

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

I'm 75% there, but no bolt or wire cutters?

Don't confuse safety with race performance. One is a requirement, the other is an option.

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On 11/20/2019 at 3:31 PM, Editor said:

it ain't an ullman ad, because if it was, it wouldn't be here. ullman has deemed us unfit to advertise with. 

That's a shame.  But its good stuff whatever they want to call it!  Thanks for highlighting it.

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Same shit Wally has been spewing for years. When he was with North, quantum and now ullman. Yeah still getting paid there captain obvious?

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That is a lot of extra bullshit to determine if your rig is symmetrical(use your main halyard sir to side at the chainplates) and anyone worth a shit for the past 40 years has taken a magic marker to indicate important measurements on their lines-not ropes as he states. 

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On 11/21/2019 at 11:43 PM, crankcall said:

One of our more winning racers did a talk at our club one night about how he manages to be consistently fast. He starts his race about 2 hrs before the gun, checks weather, incoming weather, currents, does he have the inventory on board they will need, is there food/water/weed to keep everybody happy for the time they will be out there.

So just basic shit then?

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

That is a lot of extra bullshit to determine if your rig is symmetrical(use your main halyard sir to side at the chainplates) and anyone worth a shit for the past 40 years has taken a magic marker to indicate important measurements on their lines-not ropes as he states. 

I dunno, I feel that the important thing is to have a good idea of what your sails & rig look like when they are working best.

Marking lines has always been a system to have stuff set wrong IMHO. Unless one truly brings a systematic calibration approach to every measurement, and how each adjustment affects every other adjustment, you can't adjust to a mark. No single number is "fast."

FB- Doug

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I hear you on that. I don’t have a magic marker on board. Too many boats I crewed on in the day had marks for everything and we still lost. If the sails are trimmed properly the boat will fast and tactics make the difference.

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno, I feel that the important thing is to have a good idea of what your sails & rig look like when they are working best.

Marking lines has always been a system to have stuff set wrong IMHO. Unless one truly brings a systematic calibration approach to every measurement, and how each adjustment affects every other adjustment, you can't adjust to a mark. No single number is "fast."

FB- Doug

I didn't watch the whole video or the series but I think that is what he is espousing.  And for sure its a lot of work to set it all up.  But even with our cruising trimaran we have done this and re-do it with each new sail.  Sail by the numbers and find the best setting for upwind and downwind Max VMG in all kinds of different conditions.  Have a foot and pinch mode and have all the lines marked for it.  For cruising it helps us with crew knowing what to do to make the boat perform if we are not on watch or in the cockpit.  For racing it means you can get your head out of the boat because the boat is set up right to go fast.

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On 11/25/2019 at 4:41 AM, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno, I feel that the important thing is to have a good idea of what your sails & rig look like when they are working best.

Marking lines has always been a system to have stuff set wrong IMHO. Unless one truly brings a systematic calibration approach to every measurement, and how each adjustment affects every other adjustment, you can't adjust to a mark. No single number is "fast."

FB- Doug

Thanks for speaking out man!

I always felt a little embarrassed because all the cool guys have dozens of marker stripes everywhere on every line while I never mark anything except maybe standing rigging. OTOH, I like to have telltales and black stripes everywhere in the sails so I can actually see their shape and get a feel of what is going on. 

Good to know I am not the only one. :D 

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On 11/25/2019 at 9:02 AM, Wess said:

I didn't watch the whole video or the series but I think that is what he is espousing.  And for sure its a lot of work to set it all up.  But even with our cruising trimaran we have done this and re-do it with each new sail.  Sail by the numbers and find the best setting for upwind and downwind Max VMG in all kinds of different conditions.  Have a foot and pinch mode and have all the lines marked for it.  For cruising it helps us with crew knowing what to do to make the boat perform if we are not on watch or in the cockpit.  For racing it means you can get your head out of the boat because the boat is set up right to go fast.

In the past I kept a tuning notebook, with all the measurements for the rig and dates and how it performed (or didn't); along with adjustments and the settings for different sails. It was a good bit of work keeping it up; some folks could do it in their head but in the absence of meticulous notes I'd be suspicious there was a lot of "Kentucky windage" going on.

 

54 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

Thanks for speaking out man!

I always felt a little embarrassed because all the cool guys have dozens of marker stripes everywhere on every line while I never mark anything except maybe standing rigging. OTOH, I like to have telltales and black stripes everywhere in the sails so I can actually see their shape and get a feel of what is going on. 

Good to know I am not the only one. :D 

If it would make you feel better, you can make fun of them for not having a scale instead of just marks. But IMHO knowing the sail shape for given conditions and how to work the controls to get that shape is far superior to having a cookbook list of numbers on the scale for the controls. I'd much rather say "crank on a little more halyard tension" than say "make sure the genoa halyard mark is on 3.2" for example. On the last boat I raced, a small simple frac rig, I did not keep a notebook but I took a lot of pics looking straight up at the sails; after a while we had a sort of "target shape" in mind.

That boat (a Schock) also had some asymmetricality in the tracks and standing rigging. The numbers needed to be slightly different or it pointed better on port.

Wess is 110% right, above, the skipper needs to keep his head out of the boat. Aside from being more fun to watch the big picture, it saves arguing over adjustment when you need to tack anyway.

FB- Doug

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For  most recreational sailors, they don't have enough time to statistically quatify the variables and their interaction to make "system sailing" feasible.  It's hard enough to quantify known variables, even harder to discern unkown ones and errors in measurement.  

The premise of focusing on the system instead of people goes against my grain as a sailor.  I want to sail with friends and discuss not just sailing, but enjoy company and talk about the minutia of lives etc.  Having fun in the short time on the water I can carve out is what I want. Finishing place is not the only measure of success. I sure as hell don't want to go back to school and learn some yuks system so he can make a buck.

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Sounds a lot like Dr. Walker’s prescriptions for positive results. (Stuart H., from MD; that one.)

 

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On 11/21/2019 at 10:43 PM, crankcall said:

 He starts his race about 2 hrs before the gun,

One way of getting clear air I guess.

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On 11/29/2019 at 10:07 AM, Steam Flyer said:

[  .  .  .  ]  That boat (a Schock) also had some asymmetricality in the tracks and standing rigging. The numbers needed to be slightly different or it pointed better on port. [  .  .  .  ]

Even with a perfectly symmetrical boat,  in significant directional wind shear conditions the trim will be different for each tack.  Similarly if significant waves are not aligned with wind direction there'll be a good tack and a bad tack, which also requires different trim for each tack.

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On 11/21/2019 at 4:43 AM, crankcall said:

One of our more winning racers did a talk at our club one night about how he manages to be consistently fast. He starts his race about 2 hrs before the gun, checks weather, incoming weather, currents,   [  .  .  .  ]

Would be a waste of time in my venue when closed course racing, assuming you mean he's out on the course two hours before the start.  Typically the wind doesn't fill until 10:00-12:00am with typical start times being around 11:00am.  The "weather" situation is completely different 2 hours before the start.  OTOH gathering predictive weather, sea state & current data before leaving the dock should be on everyone's punch list.  Maybe you don't need to carry your #3 jib and can use your light air main, for example, or predict a big righty circa 1:30pm.

I've raced in many other venues where the wind/weather 'sitch is typically developed and stable hours before the start;  there it's wise to show up an hour or so early and actually practice race the first beat, hitting the corners to detect the favored side, observe header and lift oscillation timing (if any), optimizing your trim tack to tack if needed, and generally hitting the start line with as much (near) real time conditions info as possible.  That's an edge over those who show up 20 minutes before the start, hoist and do a few tacks near the start line and think they're good to go. 

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On 12/1/2019 at 9:17 PM, LB 15 said:

One way of getting clear air I guess.

Well played, sir.

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