2airishuman

Best places to live between voyages

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Where are the best places for the cruising sailor to have a house on land?  Mainly interested in USA myself but other places worldwide would make interesting reading.

Things I would look for:

  • Marinas and boatyards nearby.
  • Access to good coastal cruising.
  • Access to the ocean for typical cruising-sized sailboats.  (Rules out some places like Pickwick Lake because the bridges are only 52')
  • Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs, and marina costs.
  • Reasonable regulatory environment for boating matters.
  • Weather, including the conflicting demands of hurricane safety and longer boating seasons.
  • Culture, amenities, etc.

I'm currently thinking of Duluth (or Green Bay, or somewhere else on the Great Lakes) and Bangor.  Bangor is warmer.

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Salish Sea (Pacific Northwest including British Columbia.)

Year round boating. Tons of services. Relatively mild weather.

We chose here for the boating in 1977 and have never looked back.

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12 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

Where are the best places for the cruising sailor to have a house on land?  Mainly interested in USA myself but other places worldwide would make interesting reading.

Things I would look for:

  • Access to the ocean for typical cruising-sized sailboats.  (Rules out some places like Pickwick Lake because the bridges are only 52')

I'm currently thinking of Duluth (or Green Bay, or somewhere else on the Great Lakes) and Bangor.  Bangor is warmer.

Duluth has (convenient?) ocean access?  

What seasons?  Where do you want to go?

We've been very happy with Mexico West Coast and Sea of Cortez for 10 years.  Winter on the Mexican Riviera (PV to Manzanillo), spring/fall in La Paz and the Sea.  Summer in the northern sea.  Great cruising, many consider this area to be among the best cruising grounds.  Good access to goods and services, boating friendly laws, permits and procedures.  Inexpensive living (albeit most marinas are not cheap, but lots of good anchorages.  Can get reasonably land housing for a few hundreds USD per month.

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58 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

Salish Sea (Pacific Northwest including British Columbia.)

Year round boating. Tons of services. Relatively mild weather.

We chose here for the boating in 1977 and have never looked back.

Hush. It rains all the time here and we get radioactive debris from Fukushima.

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1 hour ago, Cisco said:

Pto Montt, Chile

 

From what I can see, I'll second the vote for Puerto Montt, Chile.

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Ignore Kim. The killer whales eat swimmers. We try to keep it quiet so we don't affect tourism too much. 

 

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Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. Cheap housing, not affected by hurricanes very often,  can easily cruise to Maine,  Newfoundland,  Bras d'Or lakes,  PEI. The folks who run the Morgan's Cloud website keep their boat on a mooring in fron of their house which seems ideal  to me. I think they are in NS.  

 

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I had a pretty good laugh as I typed that and expected push back from my pal Ish!

But didn’t see Zonker coming......

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It's entirely possible that I could say Fuckitall and move to Poulsbo.  Or Port Hadlock. Or somewhere in between.

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Bay of Islands, Northland, New Zealand isn't too bad. The locals are mostly civilised, most of the time. 

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2 hours ago, jamhass said:

Duluth has (convenient?) ocean access?  

Yeah, just a hop, skip, and a jump out the St. Lawrence Seaway.

More convenient than where I am now.  I'm on the Mississippi.  In theory, you can get to the ocean from it, and maybe even back, at certain times of year, with like a month of motoring.  It's all relative, I guess.  Either that, or I should get out more.

 

2 hours ago, jamhass said:

What seasons?  Where do you want to go?

I like the Caribbean during the winter.  I like the Great Lakes during the summer.  But then again I can have fun scuba diving in a mud puddle or canoeing in a swamp.  I guess I haven't had very many bad days on the water.

 

2 hours ago, jamhass said:

We've been very happy with Mexico West Coast and Sea of Cortez for 10 years.  Winter on the Mexican Riviera (PV to Manzanillo), spring/fall in La Paz and the Sea.  Summer in the northern sea.  Great cruising, many consider this area to be among the best cruising grounds.  Good access to goods and services, boating friendly laws, permits and procedures.  Inexpensive living (albeit most marinas are not cheap, but lots of good anchorages.  Can get reasonably land housing for a few hundreds USD per month.

Hmm.  Not much hurricane risk that far west, then?  Forgive me, I've only been on the gulf coast of Mexico, and some of the inland cities.

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

The problems with BC and Mexico are the same you need to like Canadians.....

Depends on how they're cooked.

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4 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Salish Sea (Pacific Northwest including British Columbia.)

Year round boating. Tons of services. Relatively mild weather.

We chose here for the boating in 1977 and have never looked back.

Shush.

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Shush.

I spent a good bit of this summer in the PNW so I think I'm onto you guys.  San Juan islands don't get much more rain than we do here in San Diego, though they're a lot greener.  

Between that, the lower cost of living, the (mostly) flat water, almost free mooring balls everywhere, shorter cruising distances and abundant crab I'm pretty sure the whole "cold and rainy all the time" reputation is a ruse to keep us California types away.  

The Mexican food does legitimately suck though.  

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They actually get double what you get - Seattle gets 3 times and Vancouver gets almost 4 times what Dago gets.

I'd bet we have better Sushi than you too.

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8 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Move on, nothing to see here....

Jail?

3 squares a day, motivation to keep in shape  and a lot of the people in there are the same folks you find wandering aimlessly in the islands...

- Stumbling

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11 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Where are the best places for the cruising sailor to have a house on land?  Mainly interested in USA myself but other places worldwide would make interesting reading.

Things I would look for:

  • Marinas and boatyards nearby.
  • Access to good coastal cruising.
  • Access to the ocean for typical cruising-sized sailboats.  (Rules out some places like Pickwick Lake because the bridges are only 52')
  • Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs, and marina costs.
  • Reasonable regulatory environment for boating matters.
  • Weather, including the conflicting demands of hurricane safety and longer boating seasons.
  • Culture, amenities, etc.

I'm currently thinking of Duluth (or Green Bay, or somewhere else on the Great Lakes) and Bangor.  Bangor is warmer.

Coastal Maine ticks all these boxes. The usual caveat is weather but you're coming from Duluth which is colder I believe. Moving from Vermont to coastal Maine, I'm still amazed how much milder the winters are here. A 5 month season is assured. 

 

Cost is the next. While it's cheaper here than many places to keep a boat, housing varies wildly, expensive near the water, cheaper inland. 

 

Maine has a wide range of culture that changes as you move inland. The world comes by the sea, we're on the rim of the Atlantic. 

384424378_2ndAmmendment.thumb.jpg.1709999b21aad82f0fb47773d493abc1.jpg

 

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12 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Where are the best places for the cruising sailor to have a house on land?  Mainly interested in USA myself but other places worldwide would make interesting reading.

Things I would look for:

  • Marinas and boatyards nearby.
  • Access to good coastal cruising.
  • Access to the ocean for typical cruising-sized sailboats.  (Rules out some places like Pickwick Lake because the bridges are only 52')
  • Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs, and marina costs.
  • Reasonable regulatory environment for boating matters.
  • Weather, including the conflicting demands of hurricane safety and longer boating seasons.
  • Culture, amenities, etc.

I'm currently thinking of Duluth (or Green Bay, or somewhere else on the Great Lakes) and Bangor.  Bangor is warmer.

Just to offer a different perspective.

It sounds like for your place on land you are trying to replicate cruising without the benefit of travel and different cultures etc. Why not really get the benefit of cruising, while you are cruising, and in between get the benefit of something different, say maybe hardwater sports like skiing.

I’d look to break up globe girdling voyages with stays in places like Park City, or closer to the coast Whistler, or in the East maybe Stowe or Lake Placid. If you wanted a more interesting cultural mix Courmayeur, Chamonix, or my favourite quirky Alpine town, Chamois (you got to like a village only accessible by cable car)...or on the other side of the blue marble how about Hakuba in Japan.

Cruising is a great way to see and enjoy the world but kind of limits you to the coast line +/-. If you are taking a break from cruising why not really take a break and see enjoy what you can’t when your living on  a boat.

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Personally,  I'd check out the southern New England seacoast from Mystic, CT to the Cape Cod Canal. There was a reason the Robber Barons built their mansions in Newport.

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

Just to offer a different perspective.

I like your non-coast idea, but Whistler?!  I believe he said “Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs“.

Here’s what C$380K gets you in Whistler (and it goes up and up and up and up from there): https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/21228825/1-bedroom-condo-775-4090-whistler-way-whistler

suite 775 Westin Resort & Spa. Within the newly renovated, spacious 425 sf open concept plan...”

You could probably buy a few houses for that in Duluth and be a landlord collecting rent income :-)

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

Personally,  I'd check out the southern New England seacoast from Mystic, CT to the Cape Cod Canal. There was a reason the Robber Barons built their mansions in Newport.

Precisely.  I was about to recommend the western side of Narragansett Bay (Wickford, East Greenwich, Warwick, etc).  These towns can be surprisingly affordable, and though RI is not a low-tax state, it imposes neither a property nor a sales tax on boats.  The bay offers great sailing from May until October, and the offshore access of the Ocean State is second-to-none.  It is also one of the centers of the boat building and maintenance industry in the U.S., so you don't have to worry about quality work.  Finally, PVD airport under a 20 minute drive from all of these locations, and Boston's Logan International is under 90mins away.  Just don't tell anyone...

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3 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Coastal Maine ticks all these boxes. The usual caveat is weather but you're coming from Duluth which is colder I believe. Moving from Vermont to coastal Maine, I'm still amazed how much milder the winters are here. A 5 month season is assured. 

 

Cost is the next. While it's cheaper here than many places to keep a boat, housing varies wildly, expensive near the water, cheaper inland. 

 

Maine has a wide range of culture that changes as you move inland. The world comes by the sea, we're on the rim of the Atlantic. 

384424378_2ndAmmendment.thumb.jpg.1709999b21aad82f0fb47773d493abc1.jpg

 

Shhh! Mid-coast Maine is still relatively affordable, though prices in some of the nicer towns inland have increased significantly. 

My take on Maine is that there are 3 kinds of Maine: coastal Maine, which is the one most people know, the post-industrial historical Maine like L-A, Augusta, Waterville, Skowhegan and then you have potato farmers, and a billion pine-trees and black flies. Some towns like Gardener, while a bit far inn, have become quite cute. 

You pay the same or less for a first class yard in Maine than you pay for a self-employed hack in Rhode Island. At least that was my experience in East Greenwich. 

If you can stand the Winter - it's a great place.  

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I like your non-coast idea, but Whistler?!  I believe he said “Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs“.

Here’s what C$380K gets you in Whistler (and it goes up and up and up and up from there): https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/21228825/1-bedroom-condo-775-4090-whistler-way-whistler

suite 775 Westin Resort & Spa. Within the newly renovated, spacious 425 sf open concept plan...”

You could probably buy a few houses for that in Duluth and be a landlord collecting rent income :-)

Jud, my bad. I thought nearish coast and didn’t process further.

As my plan includes splitting time between snow covered mountains and time afloat, for years I’ve been developing a spreadsheet of potential ski towns (inches per year, skiable vertical, masters racing,  melt days a year, average open and close date, back country / groomer mix, cultural interest, real estate cost (studio, 5 bedroom, land) etc. This being a sailing site I won’t go further than to say Whistler Blackcomb does well UNTIL the affordability metrics and then it falls of the list. Some of the second tier European places – linked or close to major resorts do well across the list – think revamped shepherds hut above a taverna traversable distance to one of the piste in the three valleys linked by Monterosa...personally I’d go for La Grave in France but the rest of my family won’t come to visit if there is no corduroy...and as I age I might age out of La Grave.

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59 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I like your non-coast idea, but Whistler?!  I believe he said “Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs“.

Here’s what C$380K gets you in Whistler (and it goes up and up and up and up from there): https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/21228825/1-bedroom-condo-775-4090-whistler-way-whistler

suite 775 Westin Resort & Spa. Within the newly renovated, spacious 425 sf open concept plan...”

You could probably buy a few houses for that in Duluth and be a landlord collecting rent income :-)

And in my defence if you are willing to be 20 minutes from the Killington lift and half an hour to lake Champlain - which is the birth place of the US Navy and linked to the Hudson River and the St Lawrence Seaway - you can get this (9,000 sq feet) for under $300k - and its two blocks to an excellent library and on the Amtrack train line to NYC if you feel the need for a big city.

cee9ba186cc4f1ab7688ff52f0c0a555l-m0xd-w

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10 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I'd bet we have better Sushi than you too.

Oooh... those are fighting words... We've got a long fishing tradition out here and a substantial Japanese population; it's an argument I'd love to resolve conclusively through extensive testing.  Next time you're down here let's head to Sushi Ota and see what you think...

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12 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Oooh... those are fighting words... We've got a long fishing tradition out here and a substantial Japanese population; it's an argument I'd love to resolve conclusively through extensive testing.  Next time you're down here let's head to Sushi Ota and see what you think...

oooohhhh...slap fight!!!!

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

Just to offer a different perspective.

It sounds like for your place on land you are trying to replicate cruising without the benefit of travel and different cultures etc. Why not really get the benefit of cruising, while you are cruising, and in between get the benefit of something different, say maybe hardwater sports like skiing.

[...]

Cruising is a great way to see and enjoy the world but kind of limits you to the coast line +/-. If you are taking a break from cruising why not really take a break and see enjoy what you can’t when your living on  a boat.

Everyone's situation and goals are a little different.

The goal for me is to be somewhere that allows me to be close to the boat when I'm not on it.  Sure, there's some appeal to leaving the boat in, e.g. Aruba for the hurricane season and living in Aspen or the Black HIlls or somewhere else nice and rural but with a city nearby.  But that's an expensive lifestyle between airfare and having to trust a marina or yard to look after your boat while you're thousands of miles away.

The Duluth area is familiar to me, and I can see that it would work better.  The winters aren't quite as bad as Minneapolis, and it's financially feasible to buy a house that's either a short drive from one of the marinas or that's right on the harbor and has a dock suitable for a dinghy.  It makes for a lot less cost and a lot less risk overall.  But it's still cold, and a short season.  And while it's reportedly an enjoyable cruise on a sailboat from there to the coast, it still takes careful planning to assemble a cruising itinerary that involves summers in Duluth and winters in the Gulf. 

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58 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Jud, my bad. I thought nearish coast and didn’t process further.

As my plan includes splitting time between snow covered mountains and time afloat, for years I’ve been developing a spreadsheet of potential ski towns (inches per year, skiable vertical, masters racing,  melt days a year, average open and close date, back country / groomer mix, cultural interest, real estate cost (studio, 5 bedroom, land) etc. This being a sailing site I won’t go further than to say Whistler Blackcomb does well UNTIL the affordability metrics and then it falls of the list. Some of the second tier European places – linked or close to major resorts do well across the list – think revamped shepherds hut above a taverna traversable distance to one of the piste in the three valleys linked by Monterosa...personally I’d go for La Grave in France but the rest of my family won’t come to visit if there is no corduroy...and as I age I might age out of La Grave.

Check out the areas near Piancavallo - ( in the alps just above Aviano, Italy).  

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13 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Check out the areas near Piancavallo - ( in the alps just above Aviano, Italy).  

I will. What's not to like about an hour and a half to the gulf of trieste or to venice if you get tired of mountains.

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

Shhh! Mid-coast Maine is still relatively affordable, though prices in some of the nicer towns inland have increased significantly. 

My take on Maine is that there are 3 kinds of Maine: coastal Maine, which is the one most people know, the post-industrial historical Maine like L-A, Augusta, Waterville, Skowhegan and then you have potato farmers, and a billion pine-trees and black flies. Some towns like Gardener, while a bit far inn, have become quite cute. 

You pay the same or less for a first class yard in Maine than you pay for a self-employed hack in Rhode Island. At least that was my experience in East Greenwich. 

If you can stand the Winter - it's a great place.  

No. The first class yard in Maine is much cheaper than the hack in EG. 

The problem with many of the cheaper places to live is that they are cheaper for a reason - lack of good employment opportunities. Not a lot of good year round jobs downeast. In Nova Scotia, not much of an economy between Halifax and Cape Breton Is. 

Taos, NM is much the same. Incredible outdoor recreation, wonderful art community, but low wages for most jobs and no industrial base at all. 

The issue is whether or not you can make a living in your ideal place to live? If you can work online, the answer is yes.

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11 minutes ago, KC375 said:

I will. What's not to like about an hour and a half to the gulf of trieste or to venice if you get tired of mountains.

Every where ya turn looks like a postcard, folks are nice, good food is everywhere, and Pordenone is big enough to provide for any shopping needs.  I'd go back in a heartbeat. 

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Why I chose Squamish, with access to water, Whistler, Van and 5 rivers. Traffic getting worse though now, expect a parking lot on the s to s hwy sunday aft south. Course, it rains 8 feet here....coastal rainforest....also a dormant volcano just outside of town. You can see an old debris flow called the Cheekeye Fan, as you drive up to Whistler from the valley bottom. That is impressive when you realise what it is.

Did I mention Mt Baker is due for an eruption...might want to reconsider the PNWet

 

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1 hour ago, 2airishuman said:

Everyone's situation and goals are a little different.

The goal for me is to be somewhere that allows me to be close to the boat when I'm not on it.  Sure, there's some appeal to leaving the boat in, e.g. Aruba for the hurricane season and living in Aspen or the Black HIlls or somewhere else nice and rural but with a city nearby.  But that's an expensive lifestyle between airfare and having to trust a marina or yard to look after your boat while you're thousands of miles away.

The Duluth area is familiar to me, and I can see that it would work better.  The winters aren't quite as bad as Minneapolis, and it's financially feasible to buy a house that's either a short drive from one of the marinas or that's right on the harbor and has a dock suitable for a dinghy.  It makes for a lot less cost and a lot less risk overall.  But it's still cold, and a short season.  And while it's reportedly an enjoyable cruise on a sailboat from there to the coast, it still takes careful planning to assemble a cruising itinerary that involves summers in Duluth and winters in the Gulf. 

i don't know but it seems to me that this geography would mean that all you would be doing was moving the boat.  you said upthread:

Yeah, just a hop, skip, and a jump out the St. Lawrence Seaway.

More convenient than where I am now.  I'm on the Mississippi.  In theory, you can get to the ocean from it, and maybe even back, at certain times of year, with like a month of motoring.  

How long does it take to take to move a sailboat from Duluth out the seaway, down the east coast and around to the gulf?  That is a lot of fucking real estate buddy. why wouldn't that trip be 2 months each way?  wouldn't it be better to just move the boat to alabama once?  I totally get wanting to spend summers on superior, it's incredible but wholly molley i can't see commuting a boat between those locations on a yearly basis... unless it was on a truck. 

image.thumb.png.d08e02ac2ce5e69dc8944cb041a91bcf.png

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18 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Why I chose Squamish, with access to water, Whistler, Van and 5 rivers. Traffic getting worse though now, expect a parking lot on the s to s hwy sunday aft south. Course, it rains 8 feet here....coastal rainforest....also a dormant volcano just outside of town. You can see an old debris flow called the Cheekeye Fan, as you drive up to Whistler from the valley bottom. That is impressive when you realise what it is.

Did I mention Mt Baker is due for an eruption...might want to reconsider the PNWet

 

Baker hasn't even steamed for nearly 50 years.

Don't be an alarmist - we've got enough terrible things to scare them off with.

Cold, wet, currents, rocks, no wind, no sun, expensive homes, expensive gas.......

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

Baker hasn't even steamed for nearly 50 years.

Don't be an alarmist - we've got enough terrible things to scare them off with.

Cold, wet, currents, rocks, no wind, no sun, expensive homes, expensive gas.......

You're right, minor earthquakes, wildfires, bears and cougars are more de jour...

 

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And lots of eagles big enough to take your pets & small children

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Don't forget, it's all going to get wiped away when the The Big One hits.  Any. Minute. Now.  

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There is no snow on The Lions - usually there is some even in summer.

I suspect the ski hill people are sweating - I've seen them open by now but this year there's nothing but grass on the city hills.

Not even cold enough to fire up the snow machines.

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27 minutes ago, chester said:

i don't know but it seems to me that this geography would mean that all you would be doing was moving the boat.  you said upthread:

Yeah, just a hop, skip, and a jump out the St. Lawrence Seaway.

More convenient than where I am now.  I'm on the Mississippi.  In theory, you can get to the ocean from it, and maybe even back, at certain times of year, with like a month of motoring.  

How long does it take to take to move a sailboat from Duluth out the seaway, down the east coast and around to the gulf?  That is a lot of fucking real estate buddy. why wouldn't that trip be 2 months each way?  wouldn't it be better to just move the boat to alabama once?  I totally get wanting to spend summers on superior, it's incredible but wholly molley i can't see commuting a boat between those locations on a yearly basis... unless it was on a truck. 

Everything you say is true.  The thing is that it's an enjoyable 2 months.  Varied shoreline, lots to see, many different ways to do the trip, most of it can be sailed.  It's possible to put together a lifestyle that works.  Maybe spend some winters on the hard in Duluth.  Maybe spend some summers cruising the coast or in South America.  It's still a place to go back to that has local cruising and a place to keep the boat.

Now, if I were living in Maine, that would cut the trip in half.  If I were living in Mobile and took my chances on hurricanes, I wouldn't have to do it at all.

As for staying in Minneapolis and going down river, well, the bridges on the Tennessee River have 52' feet of clearance, and so most of the boats people think of as cruising boats can't make the trip with the mast stepped.  Nonetheless I've seen sailboats that have made the trip.

And in that same light, it's possible to truck a boat from Duluth to Stillwater, splash in the St. Croix River leaving the mast down, and motor to Mobile from there.  It's affordable because it's less than 200 miles over land and there are high-clearance non-freeway routes available (no overpasses).  So then you only go through the St. Lawrence Seaway on the way back.

But I'm increasingly thinking that there are better tradeoffs, which is why I started the thread.

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4 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I like your non-coast idea, but Whistler?!  I believe he said “Reasonable overall cost profile, considering tax burden, housing costs“.

Here’s what C$380K gets you in Whistler (and it goes up and up and up and up from there): https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/21228825/1-bedroom-condo-775-4090-whistler-way-whistler

suite 775 Westin Resort & Spa. Within the newly renovated, spacious 425 sf open concept plan...”

You could probably buy a few houses for that in Duluth and be a landlord collecting rent income :-)

Looks reasonably priced to me - even using Kiwi dollars.

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From what I've seen, very experienced offshore sailors very frequently choose New Zealand to move ashore.

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10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

There is no snow on The Lions - usually there is some even in summer.

I suspect the ski hill people are sweating - I've seen them open by now but this year there's nothing but grass on the city hills.

Not even cold enough to fire up the snow machines.

People have been skiing on the down-market local anthills when I drive by.  It snowed this morning.

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

Looks reasonably priced to me - even using Kiwi dollars.

AFAIK It was a hotel room in a previous life.

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

From what I've seen, very experienced offshore sailors very frequently choose New Zealand to move ashore.

I was under the impression that normal people generally can't get resident visas there.

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5 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Personally,  I'd check out the southern New England seacoast from Mystic, CT to the Cape Cod Canal. There was a reason the Robber Barons built their mansions in Newport.

What is like getting a slip there?  I understand it's nearly impossible from Norfolk to New York Harbor.

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Every where ya turn looks like a postcard, folks are nice, good food is everywhere, and Pordenone is big enough to provide for any shopping needs.  I'd go back in a heartbeat. 

I lookforward to checking it out. All my Italian skiing has been in the corner bounded by France and Switzerland - between Courmayeur and Cervina. Cortina is next on my list. I was planning to combine it with Venice (in winter the crowds might be less) so Pincavallo would not be more than an hour off the planned journey

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52 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Whistler off to a late start nov 28 with only the top white. Looks like rock skiing. https://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/the-mountain/mountain-conditions/mountain-cams.aspx

Whistler Cam

And you know if it were not for the American thanksgiving crowd they would push the opening off further

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4 minutes ago, KC375 said:

I lookforward to checking it out. All my Italian skiing has been in the corner bounded by France and Switzerland - between Courmayeur and Cervina. Cortina is next on my list. I was planning to combine it with Venice (in winter the crowds might be less) so Pincavallo would not be more than an hour off the planned journey

Cortina D'Ampezzo is gorgeous too!   I really enjoyed everything up there, and hope that ya have a ball! 

 

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18 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

Everything you say is true.  The thing is that it's an enjoyable 2 months.  Varied shoreline, lots to see, many different ways to do the trip, most of it can be sailed.  It's possible to put together a lifestyle that works.  Maybe spend some winters on the hard in Duluth.  Maybe spend some summers cruising the coast or in South America.  It's still a place to go back to that has local cruising and a place to keep the boat.

Now, if I were living in Maine, that would cut the trip in half.  If I were living in Mobile and took my chances on hurricanes, I wouldn't have to do it at all.

As for staying in Minneapolis and going down river, well, the bridges on the Tennessee River have 52' feet of clearance, and so most of the boats people think of as cruising boats can't make the trip with the mast stepped.  Nonetheless I've seen sailboats that have made the trip.

And in that same light, it's possible to truck a boat from Duluth to Stillwater, splash in the St. Croix River leaving the mast down, and motor to Mobile from there.  It's affordable because it's less than 200 miles over land and there are high-clearance non-freeway routes available (no overpasses).  So then you only go through the St. Lawrence Seaway on the way back.

But I'm increasingly thinking that there are better tradeoffs, which is why I started the thread.

 I'll make one more plug for VT - Lake Champlain has some decent fresh water sailing - over 100 miles long. Lots of pretty countryside on the NY and VT sides - slip up to the Canadian end for legal pot. Good (eastern) skiing at Whiteface, Jay, Smugglers Notch, Mt Mansfield, Killington....Lots of cute and cheap New England towns / farms...train access to the big apple.

When you want deeper waters - the Champlain canal to the Hudson river 25 miles and then about 200 miles down the Hudson you get to the W79th street boat basin in Manhattan...from there the world is your oyster..

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2 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

No. The first class yard in Maine is much cheaper than the hack in EG. 

The problem with many of the cheaper places to live is that they are cheaper for a reason - lack of good employment opportunities. Not a lot of good year round jobs downeast. In Nova Scotia, not much of an economy between Halifax and Cape Breton Is. 

Taos, NM is much the same. Incredible outdoor recreation, wonderful art community, but low wages for most jobs and no industrial base at all. 

The issue is whether or not you can make a living in your ideal place to live? If you can work online, the answer is yes.

Yeah....exactly why I can't live there yet.  

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29 minutes ago, KC375 said:

 I'll make one more plug for VT - Lake Champlain has some decent fresh water sailing - over 100 miles long. Lots of pretty countryside on the NY and VT sides - slip up to the Canadian end for legal pot and hot quebecois girls. Good (eastern) skiing at Whiteface, Jay, Smugglers Notch, Mt Mansfield, Killington....Lots of cute and cheap New England towns / farms...train access to the big apple.

When you want deeper waters - the Champlain canal to the Hudson river 25 miles and then about 200 miles down the Hudson you get to the W79th street boat basin in Manhattan...from there the world is your oyster..

:D

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19 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Yeah....exactly why I can't live there yet.  

Yes, you have to bring the job with you if you move to Maine, or not need one. 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

From what I've seen, very experienced offshore sailors very frequently choose New Zealand to move ashore.

Shut up. New Zealand is a nice place. It won't be improved by a bunch of people from rich Northern Hemisphere countries moving there.

I think they should go to Vancouver myself.

FKT

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1 hour ago, 2airishuman said:

I was under the impression that normal people generally can't get resident visas there.

That's correct, and Australia is even worse. We make NZ look like soft touches.

FKT

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That's correct, and Australia is even worse. We make NZ look like soft touches.

FKT

especially if you arive by boat

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2 minutes ago, KC375 said:

especially if you arive by boat

Without a visa or giving minimum 72 hours prior notice of intent to enter to a port of entry.

If you follow those rules we merely charge you a shit-ton of money and have Border Farce and Quarantine go over your boat with a fine tooth comb. But we don't actually lock you up.

Well, unless you're from the USA, carry guns on board and don't declare them. But look on the bright side - Singapore might hang you for that so it's all relative.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Without a visa or giving minimum 72 hours prior notice of intent to enter to a port of entry.

If you follow those rules we merely charge you a shit-ton of money and have Border Farce and Quarantine go over your boat with a fine tooth comb. But we don't actually lock you up.

Well, unless you're from the USA, carry guns on board and don't declare them. But look on the bright side - Singapore might hang you for that so it's all relative.

FKT

and there is no gum on the street in singapore so everthing balances out

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1 minute ago, KC375 said:

and there is no gum on the street in singapore so everthing balances out

No graffiti either. Singapore has a hell of a lot going for it, provided you don't mind living in a corporate fascist State. One would need to keep in mind one of the other Chinese curses - 'may you come to the attention of those in authority'.

FKT

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19 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Shut up. New Zealand is a nice place. It won't be improved by a bunch of people from rich Northern Hemisphere countries moving there.

I think they should go to Vancouver myself.

FKT

You got no skin in either game. :P

Careful or I'll wax lyrical about Tazzie.

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

You got no skin in either game. :P

Careful or I'll wax lyrical about Tazzie.

Then I'll post pictures of a typical day here. Coming home last week into the teeth of a 25 knot gusting 30+ westerly. The sharks. The crocodiles. The dugongs along LB/s foreshore. Dingos that eat babies on Fraser Island. Tiger snakes and death adders.

NZ is a bit too close to home. I'd prefer that the wannabe refugees stayed in the Northern Hemisphere, thanks.

FKT

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25 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

No graffiti either. Singapore has a hell of a lot going for it, provided you don't mind living in a corporate fascist State. One would need to keep in mind one of the other Chinese curses - 'may you come to the attention of those in authority'.

FKT

Singapore's progress since WWII is remarkable but I don't think I could live there. I have a personality defect that would make me chew gum and paint graffiti - even though I do neither ordinarily. I just don't respond well to overbearing authority. But I can admire its results

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

Yes, you have to bring the job with you if you move to Maine, or not need one. 

That isn’t true a-tall

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

 I'll make one more plug for VT - Lake Champlain has some decent fresh water sailing - over 100 miles long. Lots of pretty countryside on the NY and VT sides - slip up to the Canadian end for legal pot. Good (eastern) skiing at Whiteface, Jay, Smugglers Notch, Mt Mansfield, Killington....Lots of cute and cheap New England towns / farms...train access to the big apple.

When you want deeper waters - the Champlain canal to the Hudson river 25 miles and then about 200 miles down the Hudson you get to the W79th street boat basin in Manhattan...from there the world is your oyster..

What’s the bridge clearance between Champlain and NYC harbor?

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29 minutes ago, Santana20AE said:

What’s the bridge clearance between Champlain and NYC harbor?

You'd want the mast down from south end of Lake Champlain until you get to Albany - I think the lowest at standard basin level is 17 ft overhead clearance.

After Albany (s bound) clearance goes up - 135 feet or better

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7 hours ago, Elegua said:

Shhh! Mid-coast Maine is still relatively affordable, though prices in some of the nicer towns inland have increased significantly. 

My take on Maine is that there are 3 kinds of Maine: coastal Maine, which is the one most people know, the post-industrial historical Maine like L-A, Augusta, Waterville, Skowhegan and then you have potato farmers, and a billion pine-trees and black flies. Some towns like Gardener, while a bit far inn, have become quite cute. 

You pay the same or less for a first class yard in Maine than you pay for a self-employed hack in Rhode Island. At least that was my experience in East Greenwich. 

If you can stand the Winter - it's a great place.  

That’s a poor generalization for northern Maine

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3 hours ago, mgs said:

That’s a poor generalization for northern Maine

So what’s a better one? I used to drive up north a lot. It was always a bit of strategery to find 93 octane fuel, so I couldn’t roam at will. 

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29 minutes ago, Elegua said:

So what’s a better one? I used to drive up north a lot. It was always a bit of strategery to find 93 octane fuel, so I couldn’t roam at will. 

Must have been back when gasoline cars were still cool.

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24 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

Must have been back when gasoline cars were still cool.

Take it to PA, please.

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1 hour ago, 2airishuman said:

Must have been back when gasoline cars were still cool.

I have a dinosaur car: Subaru Sti with a modest tune and some bolt-ons. But, it knock like fcuk and pull back the gross timing multiplier (IAM) if I feed it anything but 93.

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2 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Must have been back when gasoline cars were still cool.

They still are.

To anyone who actually likes cars.

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15 hours ago, chester said:

:D

If you want hot Quebécois girls then go to either Québec or Montréal. Actually, anywhere in Québec province is wonderful. Check out the Gaspé peninsula, it is very, very beautiful!

I lived in Montréal and the Quebécois women are wonderful!!
 

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14 hours ago, mgs said:

That isn’t true a-tall

I don't mean that in a bad way and I should have said, "bring your own job/skills and some entrepreneurial spirit. At least here along my coast, there are very, very few jobs that supply and income that will support the cost of living in this area. 

 

I've seen many people come and go here in the last couple decades. Some moved here with equity that gave them a foot up in the housing market. Once settled, they got around to making a living and that proved difficult for most that thought they'd find similar pay scales to where they came from. What follows is a sort of reset that some survive and it seems like as many, go out the exit door. 

 

Around here, locals refer to the above as, "The Camden Initiation". It's not all bad, one thing about the 'initiation' is, you leave a lot of $$$ behind in the form of goods and jobs and employment for skilled people like me. :) 

 

In the end, the quality of life we live here is worth what ever it takes. I have two millennials off working and living in Boston and NYC. Each started their work life with salary's about double the median Maine income. They'll be back I have no doubt but they'll have their own business plan. 

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1 hour ago, QBF said:

If you want hot Quebécois girls then go to either Québec or Montréal. Actually, anywhere in Québec province is wonderful. Check out the Gaspé peninsula, it is very, very beautiful!

I lived in Montréal and the Quebécois women are wonderful!!
 

and flirts! damn they are flirty.

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1 hour ago, QBF said:

If you want hot Quebécois girls then go to either Québec or Montréal. Actually, anywhere in Québec province is wonderful. Check out the Gaspé peninsula, it is very, very beautiful!

I lived in Montréal and the Quebécois women are wonderful!!
 

did you go to Mcgill?

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

I don't mean that in a bad way and I should have said, "bring your own job/skills and some entrepreneurial spirit. At least here along my coast, there are very, very few jobs that supply and income that will support the cost of living in this area. 

 

I've seen many people come and go here in the last couple decades. Some moved here with equity that gave them a foot up in the housing market. Once settled, they got around to making a living and that proved difficult for most that thought they'd find similar pay scales to where they came from. What follows is a sort of reset that some survive and it seems like as many, go out the exit door. 

 

Around here, locals refer to the above as, "The Camden Initiation". It's not all bad, one thing about the 'initiation' is, you leave a lot of $$$ behind in the form of goods and jobs and employment for skilled people like me. :) 

 

In the end, the quality of life we live here is worth what ever it takes. I have two millennials off working and living in Boston and NYC. Each started their work life with salary's about double the median Maine income. They'll be back I have no doubt but they'll have their own business plan. 

Hancock County has an interesting unemployment rate chart:

fredgraph.thumb.png.1bd293b14f0db5821ff7d74ed747447c.png

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I'm currently thinking of Duluth (or Green Bay, or somewhere else on the Great Lakes) and Bangor.  Bangor is warmer.

So, you're the guy! I'd heard there was someone that actually wanted to move to Bangor, but thought it was probably apocryphal.

 

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4 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Hancock County has an interesting employment rate chart:

fredgraph.thumb.png.1bd293b14f0db5821ff7d74ed747447c.png

Those valleys would be the potato harvest, right?

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3 hours ago, QBF said:

If you want hot Quebécois girls then go to either Québec or Montréal. Actually, anywhere in Québec province is wonderful...
 

Well that would include Lake Champlain whose northern end is in the Province of Quebec...{Please note that is Province of Quebec, not Quebec Province unless you are trying to emphasis your limited acclimatization to Canadian eccentricities}

But I've over hyped Lake Champlain - if you want sea access, interesting culture, affordability and skiing try just east of Quebec city.

For $100k US you can get this house

9200139_25707175_lg.jpg

With this view (and ~500 clear sailing miles to France (St Pierre et Miquelon), cruise the Canadian Maritimes, even go slumming in Maine) 

9200139_25707180_lg.jpg

You are 4 miles from the ski lifts at Mont St Anne

mont-sainte-anne-resort.jpg

and half an hour from Quebec City

quebec-306x249.png?mh=0&w=306&mw=0&h=249

quebec-city-guide-9.jpg?w=1500&ssl=1

And because Winter in Quebec lasts for 500 days a year you can enjoy the winter carnival where you can combine winter recreation and boating

GettyImages-541212476-5a3d2d9f9e94270037

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I think you may be on the wrong islands there, KC! Perhaps you meant Ile d'Orleans? St. Pierre and Miquelon are French owned and off the south coast of Newfy land. They ain't near anything.

 

ETA... ah, I clicked the link, it's SAINTE-ANNE-DE-BEAUPRÉ, QUEBEC. Really nice area that!

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No, 500 NM to St.P & M sounds about right. Of course, I think that may take you past the sea buoy that saw a 100' wave not long ago....

Edit: Probably going to be at least 600 NM to St. P, maybe more. 

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47 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

No, 500 NM to St.P & M sounds about right. Of course, I think that may take you past the sea buoy that saw a 100' wave not long ago....

Edit: Probably going to be at least 600 NM to St. P, maybe more. 

Everyone please disregard my obvious lack of reading comprehension. I'm off now to repeat third grade.

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