billy backstay

What's in your arsenal??

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About 35yrs ago, the Radiologist I'm now dating was in DC for some part of her Residency.  She rented a room in Silver Springs and enjoyed her two months there and when packing to leave looked under the bed and found a shotgun.  She reported it to the landlady who simply said you found it, it's yours.  She turned it into the police who checked to make sure it hadn't been reported stolen, and after 18mos from first finding it, she returned to DC and the cops gave it to her.  When she heard that I owned guns she offered it to me.  I've shot skeet/trap years ago, but it doesn't excite me.  She kept telling me what the gun was and I never would recall what she told me.  

Today when I dropped her off, I got to see it.  Still unexcited, I was in the process of pulling it out of the case when the word 'Beretta' was first mentioned.  My ears picked up.  The gun is a Beretta Silver Snipe 12ga O/U and is absolutely mint.  The barrels appear fine and she did let a friend use it a few times and was lucky to get it back.  I'm going to at least clean and oil the barrels.  I found some manuals on line and will print those out for reference.  She now wants to play with it, hopefully just skeet/trap and not me while sleeping.  

So who can fill me in?  Way too many gun experts here not to find someone who knows the gun.  I was impressed with the lightness and balance of the gun.  It really does look like a quality piece.  

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

I don't carry a gun concealed since I don't carry a gun. If I did carry a gun, it would be on my hip. 

If you had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, if you had some eggs.  

I have a license and will occasionally carry a .380 in a pocket holster.  No one says it has to come out of my pocket.  You want to walk around like Wyatt Earp, you don't have that choice.  

Tell your Doctor the stupid pills are working.  

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

So who can fill me in?  Way too many gun experts here not to find someone who knows the gun.  I was impressed with the lightness and balance of the gun.  It really does look like a quality piece.  

Reading the Google, it seems this is an entry grade Beretta O/U of the 1950-60s era.  Entry grade for Beretta, the gold standard of Over/Unders.  Most of the reviewers have been complimentary, describing it as a field grade hunting piece. Used, they're going for $800-1,000 on Gunbroke(r).  

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1 hour ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Reading the Google, it seems this is an entry grade Beretta O/U of the 1950-60s era.  Entry grade for Beretta, the gold standard of Over/Unders.  Most of the reviewers have been complimentary, describing it as a field grade hunting piece. Used, they're going for $800-1,000 on Gunbroke(r).  

Thanks

 

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On 10/16/2020 at 10:09 AM, Hatin' life said:

20201016_115207.thumb.jpg.fabe25f64f6a26ffdbb6f5615a509b18.jpg

Haha, that's funny!  Unfortunately, I didn't listen.  

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10 hours ago, mikewof said:

Pussy. If you were a real man, you would carry your gun on your hip, and not take your business to any place that doesn't welcome your open and notorious extraction of The Constitution of the United States of America.

I don't carry a gun concealed since I don't carry a gun. If I did carry a gun, it would be on my hip. But I don't need to carry a gun, because I get along with people and I have no need to shoot them. Obviously not everyone is in the same boat as I am ... some people hate their fellow humans and need to carry a concealed weapon in case they have some murderin' to do ...

 

Anymore, on the rare occasion I do carry - I carry OC almost exclusively.  Mainly because 9 months out of the year it's too hot to wear anything to conceal it.  A jacket or long shirt in 110F weather is pretty much a dead giveaway you're CCW anyway, and it's miserably hot to boot.  So OC is better all around in that situation.  

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5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

on the rare occasion I do carry - I carry OC almost exclusively

No doubt about it, Jeffy is shit scared of black people, he has to carry a firearm to go out on the street.

 

08d6c9-20180611-blind-gun-owner01.jpg

 

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10 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Haha, that's funny!  Unfortunately, I didn't listen.  

I'm seriously close to ordering a vudoo.  I think if I do it piece by piece I can trick my wallet into not knowing I spent $5k on a rimfire rifle....

As a side note to that, my change bucket had $514 in it.  Almost enough to pay for the can.

 

20200927_183400.thumb.jpg.c1aa47697c8e23730d638fbae372484c.jpg

 

Yeah, I got bored that other day.

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I have it on good authority that Santa is bringing me a Rossi R92 for Christmas. 20” barrel, stainless, in .357 Magnum.

Now to scrounge up some reloading supply’s for it!

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this was a request for advice from @Cal20sailor over on PA. 
 

my BLUF is to make it both fun and informative and not a lecture or formal training session.  She likely has plenty of that crap already  if it feels like work, she won’t come back.

For specifics, spend a few minutes going over some basics either at home or at the range (home has less distractions and is quieter and easier to talk in a relaxed environment).  Spend no more than 15-30 min in a quiet, relaxed, stress fee setting with no distractions  I.e TV off etc  UNDER. NO CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE LIVE ROUNDS ANYWHERE IN THE SAME ROOM!  Do a quick demo of how to handle it, how to lick the slide back, always keeping the muzzle away from her or you, how to unload it, check that it’s clear, finger discipline etc  then give the gun to her and have her try it  let her make mistakes but gently correct her  Have her hold it muzzle down at a 45 deg angle and then unload and check it’s clear, etc  

once she’s done that once or twice, then show her how the sights work, how you line them up .  It is VERY important that you pick a blank wall with nothing behind it in the other room to practice  never use a pic or a TV on the wall.  tape up a paper target on the blank so she has something to aim at  let her try a few trigger squeezes.  A few dry fires with a rim fire are ok, but I would do more than a few or you might damage the firing pin  .  Don’t belabor this - it’s just a quick intro  

once you get to the tangle, ask if she wants you to demo the loading and unloading, clearing, opening the slide, locking it back, etc  And even firing a few live rounds so she’s exposed to the sound. If she says yes, do a quick refresher.  if she says no then let her do her thing while gently making corrections if she’s pointing the muzzle anywhere other than down range, etc

Then just let her shoot  if she misses, no big deal  don’t correct every little thing  let her (safely) make mistakes  keep it fun  add little pointers along the way but then shut up and just let her shoot  Don’t try to “man-splain” everything.  Let her figure it out for herself  FUN is the #1 objective  

Good Luck  


———————/////

I do need your advice on taking a female first time shooter to the range.  She's not dumb (Radiologist) and not shy, I plan to have her shoot my Ruger SR22 (I think you said you had one), simple gun.  I plan to take it over in a night or two and keep harping on having it face downrange and how they work, that is, no magazine does not mean no bullet.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  How about tacking your response on the arsenal thread in GA.  Thanks.

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BTW Cal the SR-22 has a magazine disconnect. So if the mag is out, trigger no worky. 

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Thanks Jeff, I might hate you on PA but appreciate you.  Great advice with some nuances I hadn't thought of.  Again, appreciate your help.  

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

BTW Cal the SR-22 has a magazine disconnect. So if the mag is out, trigger no worky. 

I did know that and from what I have heard, dry firing unless you are a 3yo clicking it all day is not worth worrying about.  She knows nothing but is brilliant so it will be fun to go through the process.  Thanks again.  I may bring my Shield for when she gets confident.  

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Thanks Jeff, I might hate you on PA but appreciate you.  Great advice with some nuances I hadn't thought of.  Again, appreciate your help.  

I'm not sure why you would "hate" me or anyone else there for that matter.  To hate some anonymous person on the interwebs that you've never met suggests you take this shit WAAAAAAAAY too seriously.  

We might disagree, but imo - to cross the "hate" threshold you would pretty much have to kill my wife and fuck my dog.  Or is is the other way around?  I can never remember.  :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I'm not sure why you would "hate" me or anyone else there for that matter.  To hate some anonymous person on the interwebs that you've never met suggests you take this shit WAAAAAAAAY too seriously.  

We might disagree, but imo - to cross the "hate" threshold you would pretty much have to kill my wife and fuck my dog.  Or is is the other way around?  I can never remember.  :lol:

Well said, I have no urges on your wife or dog.  Peace.  

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37 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Well said, I have no urges on your wife or dog.  Peace.  

Do you have a picture of the dog.  

I didn't get it but maybe now, both parties after this election have to burn this bitch down.  And from the embers there will arise new candidates and they all can't be Phoenix.  I like the idea of rebooting much of our government.  

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My friend Frank Conroy, just texted me some awesome pics of some of the amazing custom engraving he has done on guns.  I can't remember the easiest way to transfer jpeg's from my phone to a message thread; any suggestions are gratefully accepted.  You will be blown away by this guys work....

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

BTW Cal the SR-22 has a magazine disconnect. So if the mag is out, trigger no worky. 

Always a good idea to refer to the Instruction Manual!

http://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/sr22Pistol.pdf

3 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

I did know that and from what I have heard, dry firing unless you are a 3yo clicking it all day is not worth worrying about.  She knows nothing but is brilliant so it will be fun to go through the process.  Thanks again.  I may bring my Shield for when she gets confident.  

Ruger indicates in the manual that dry firing is okay.  But there have been reported issues with broken firing pins.  I would believe that an occasional dry fire shouldn't be an issue, but i wouldn't continuously dry fire any gun.  

 

My lady has no problems with me having guns, but she really hasn't shown any interest in them either.  They are very well secured.  When things settle down and we can safely go to the range, I'll check with her again.  

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19 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Anymore, on the rare occasion I do carry - I carry OC almost exclusively.  Mainly because 9 months out of the year it's too hot to wear anything to conceal it.  A jacket or long shirt in 110F weather is pretty much a dead giveaway you're CCW anyway, and it's miserably hot to boot.  So OC is better all around in that situation.  

Doooooooooood, that's why God invented light, loud, oversized Hawaiian shirts.  Here in Floriduh, if they're truly Shoot-Me-First shirts, the Tango is going to have his work cut out for him; cause they're so damn popular.  

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6 hours ago, Burning Man said:

this was a request for advice from @Cal20sailor over on PA. 

I do need your advice on taking a female first time shooter to the range.  She's not dumb (Radiologist) and not shy, I plan to have her shoot my Ruger SR22 (I think you said you had one), simple gun.  I plan to take it over in a night or two and keep harping on having it face downrange and how they work, that is, no magazine does not mean no bullet.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  How about tacking your response on the arsenal thread in GA.  Thanks.

A really good way to get your lady into shooting is to pay for a day where she can be with other women taking their first shots.  Program's like Women on Target, First Shots, Girl With A Gun, etc are an excellent intro. Your gun store should know of local offerings.

You go to West Marine.  ;)

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3 hours ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Doooooooooood, that's why God invented light, loud, oversized Hawaiian shirts.  Here in Floriduh, if they're truly Shoot-Me-First shirts, the Tango is going to have his work cut out for him; cause they're so damn popular.  

Triple Extra Medium!  It sounds so much better than 3XL!

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8 hours ago, silent bob said:

Triple Extra Medium!  It sounds so much better than 3XL!

Naw, I'll own the 3XL Talls I rock.  Even though the Keto has taken 20# off my svelte frame and I can now comfortably wear 2XL Talls. All that extra material is the tits when it comes to hiding the CCW.  Plus, I've been rocking the Rummage Sale look for years.  ;)

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On 10/20/2020 at 2:09 PM, Cal20sailor said:

Do you have a picture of the dog.  

I didn't get it but maybe now, both parties after this election have to burn this bitch down.  And from the embers there will arise new candidates and they all can't be Phoenix.  I like the idea of rebooting much of our government.  

Somebody finally gets it.

And the dog is still just a puppy.  So you'll have to wait at least 9 months.  

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On 10/20/2020 at 3:50 PM, silent bob said:

My lady has no problems with me having guns, but she really hasn't shown any interest in them either.  They are very well secured.  When things settle down and we can safely go to the range, I'll check with her again.  

My lady was just the opposite.  Had zero interest in gunz.  I had invited her to come shoot several times and she felt guns were kinda "icky".  Out of boredom, she came out to the desert with me and a buddy when we were going to do some long range shooting just to get out.  I offered to let her try early on and she still said no not interested.  However, as the day wore on, she started watching and was fascinated with some of the guns and the skill needed.  Finally, she relented and said she wanted to try.  She took to it like a duck to water and she wants to go shooting all the time now.  She's shot my 6.5mm out to 1500 yds and smacked the shit out of steel on her first couple of tries.  She's really enjoying learning to shoot the G19 and G43x 9mm.  She's almost into it more than me.  :lol:

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Dry firing .22s is bad because the firing pin slams into the rim of the chamber. Not good, I don't care if Ruger gives their blessing.

Yellow wall anchors make very good snap caps to protect the firing pin when dry firing.

p_1000427333.jpg?wid=1000&hei=1000&op_sh

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12 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Dry firing .22s is bad because the firing pin slams into the rim of the chamber. Not good, I don't care if Ruger gives their blessing.

Yellow wall anchors make very good snap caps to protect the firing pin when dry firing.

p_1000427333.jpg?wid=1000&hei=1000&op_sh

I agree.  I think an occasional time is ok, but otherwise I can't see it being a good idea.  Maybe the Ruger has some design feature that keeps from hitting the barrel face.  Dunno. 

That's a great idea about the wall anchors.  Brilliant.  I assume "yellow" is a specific size?

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On 10/19/2020 at 11:14 PM, astro said:

No doubt about it, Jeffy is shit scared of black people, he has to carry a firearm to go out on the street.

 

08d6c9-20180611-blind-gun-owner01.jpg

 

Wow! Nice. Is that a Rembrandt ? 

Thanks for bringing some fine art into this thread.

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On 10/20/2020 at 2:09 PM, Cal20sailor said:

I didn't get it but maybe now, both parties after this election have to burn this bitch down.  And from the embers there will arise new candidates and they all can't be Phoenix.  I like the idea of rebooting much of our government.  

Glad someone is finally seeing the light and understanding my BTBD mantra.  

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I agree.  I think an occasional time is ok, but otherwise I can't see it being a good idea.  Maybe the Ruger has some design feature that keeps from hitting the barrel face.  Dunno. 

That's a great idea about the wall anchors.  Brilliant.  I assume "yellow" is a specific size?

The 22's that can tolerate dry firing, like the Rugers, keep the pin away from contact with the breech via some sort of pin travel stop. On the older Ruger pistols it was a pin running across the bolt and through a slot in the (flat) firing pin. The back edge of the slot in the firing pin would hit the cross pin before the nose of the firing pin could hit the breech. Unless there was some defect in the firing pin, it would probably take a million hits for the firing pin to suffer any damage from dry firing. 

Firing Pin

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2 hours ago, Dorado said:

Wow! Nice. Is that a Rembrandt ? 

Thanks for bringing some fine art into this thread.

 

9DBEBF04-15EC-4AF7-A33F-6ADEDC6AC682.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I agree.  I think an occasional time is ok, but otherwise I can't see it being a good idea.  Maybe the Ruger has some design feature that keeps from hitting the barrel face.  Dunno. 

That's a great idea about the wall anchors.  Brilliant.  I assume "yellow" is a specific size?

Yes, yellow for .22s.

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35 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Yes, yellow for .22s.

Well fuck me!  I always thought wall anchors were measured in fractional inches.  But all this time I should have been asking for them by caliber  :)

Why am I just learned shit like this?

MS

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Anyone have first hand experience with this high velocity 9mm 

fascinating concept 

63178D5D-8B51-4624-A400-6E75B238EB1D.jpeg

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23 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I assume "yellow" is a specific size?

 

#6 fastener

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Bought a can for a rifle I don't own today.  Now for the year long wait for the paperwork to work through the system.

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On 10/20/2020 at 12:17 PM, Greever said:

I have it on good authority that Santa is bringing me a Rossi R92 for Christmas. 20” barrel, stainless, in .357 Magnum.

Now to scrounge up some reloading supply’s for it!

I  have a Rossi .357 lever action, 20" octagonal barrel.  I love it.  It's a real hoot to shoot, and 38s are like BBs.

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9 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Anyone have first hand experience with this high velocity 9mm 

fascinating concept 

63178D5D-8B51-4624-A400-6E75B238EB1D.jpeg

The lightweight projectile yields very low recoil for the caliber. My wife's choice for her light purse gun. 

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I don't get this. If you want a lightweight projectile, get smaller gun like a .22. That way, you retain the high density and penetration of a lead projectile. 

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25 minutes ago, IStream said:

Care to enlighten me?

Terminal ballistics is a rabbit hole that can be contentious and I am in something of a food coma* so I'll respectfully decline.

Key words; terminal ballistics.

Good luck.

* To celebrate the changing weather we had a hearty lentil, split pea and vegetable soup with rosemary olive bread dipped in oil and balsamic vinegar.

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5 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

Bought a can for a rifle I don't own today.  Now for the year long wait for the paperwork to work through the system.

What can did you get? 

I'm looking for a muffler for my 9mm PCC.  Ye Gawds, all the parameters... And the mfgs can't even agree on a common way to measure sound reduction.  Anyway, it seems like the 50s, when a car's horsepower was measured at an ad agency's typewriter, not the testing garage.

BTW: my pusher says for an electronic Form 1 4, the wait's now down to 5-6 months.  Good luck.

I'm waiting to see which brand of asshole wins the election before I plop down my money on a sup.   

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1 minute ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Looking for a muffler for my 9mm PCC.  Ye Gawds, all the parameters... And the mfgs can't even agree on a common way to measure sound reduction.  Anyway, it seems like the 50s, when a car's horsepower was measured at an ad agency's typewriter, not the testing garage.

BTW: my pusher say for an electronic Form 1, the wait's now down to 5-6 months.  

I'm waiting to see which brand of asshole wins the election before I plop down my money.  

I e-filed two Form 1's (SBR and silencer) that were approved in 3 weeks. That was about a month ago.

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3 minutes ago, F_L said:

I e-filed two Form 1's (SBR and silencer) that were approved in 3 weeks. That was about a month ago.

Sorry, I meant to say Form 4.  My blonde. 

I knew you could build a silencer, but how do you get an SBR on a Form 1?  I'm prolly going to convert a pistol to an SBR, and beat the rush.

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10 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

I  have a Rossi .357 lever action, 20" octagonal barrel.  I love it.  It's a real hoot to shoot, and 38s are like BBs.

I am looking forward to shooting it!

Found some ammo online at velocityammo.com.

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12 hours ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

What can did you get? 

I'm looking for a muffler for my 9mm PCC.  Ye Gawds, all the parameters... And the mfgs can't even agree on a common way to measure sound reduction.  Anyway, it seems like the 50s, when a car's horsepower was measured at an ad agency's typewriter, not the testing garage.

BTW: my pusher says for an electronic Form 1 4, the wait's now down to 5-6 months.  Good luck.

I'm waiting to see which brand of asshole wins the election before I plop down my money on a sup.   

 

Dead Air, Mask HD.

The place I bought it through filed the paperwork and the prints electronically.  It's almost winter here, (currently 19ºF), so if it takes 5 months, I'll be happy.  If it takes a year I'll be sad.

Might order up the rifle this coming week.  I'm waiting for some fuckers to pay me so I can breathe again.  The rifle has a 15 week lead time I think they said.  I'd like to have it before March/April when my world starts thawing out again.

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4 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

Dead Air, Mask HD.

The place I bought it through filed the paperwork and the prints electronically.  It's almost winter here, (currently 19ºF), so if it takes 5 months, I'll be happy.  If it takes a year I'll be sad.

Might order up the rifle this coming week.  I'm waiting for some fuckers to pay me so I can breathe again.  The rifle has a 15 week lead time I think they said.  I'd like to have it before March/April when my world starts thawing out again.

 

I could not live in such a frozen wasteland, dunno how you do it?  MIssus BB has a friend she used to work with/for, from Fargo, but when they both retired, they got a winter place in mid Florida...  Our plan is to spend the 3rd week of January, February and maybe March, with our daughters in Charleston, SC, in the coming years, to break up the winter.  And it's not terribly cold here next to the CT River and Long Island Sound, compared to just 50 miles north.....

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

I could not live in such a frozen wasteland, dunno how you do it?  MIssus BB has a friend she used to work with/for, from Fargo, but when they both retired, they got a winter place in mid Florida...  Our plan is to spend the 3rd week of January, February and maybe March, with our daughters in Charleston, SC, in the coming years, to break up the winter.  And it's not terribly cold here next to the CT River and Long Island Sound, compared to just 50 miles north.....

I'm really anchored.  Family, business, friends.  I've almost moved a couple of times, but I don't know where I'd go that is really any better.  Winter can be horrible, when you get ten hours of daylight, and it isn't gotten above zero Fahrenheit for a month, it really tests your resolve.  Summers here are usually amazing.  It's so green, and so alive.  It can get stupid hot, but not for long and rarely above 100ºF.

 

Shot the October NRL event today, froze my balls off.  8th place again.

One of the other competitors is a vudoo, mpa, and vortex dealer.  It was an expensive day.

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On 10/19/2020 at 2:08 PM, sledracr said:

In debate class, we called that "reduction ad absurdum" - extrapolating a valid premise to a ridiculous extreme.

Do you have car insurance?  Spare tire?  Fire extinguisher?  Emergency flares?  Why?  is it because you have some need to go create an traffic emergency?

Or is it because you, as a semi-sentient being, recognize that sometimes "shit happens" and the intelligent thing to do is to be prepared to act as your own "first responder" in care of yourself and your loved ones?

I carry.  Not because I "have some murderin' to do", but because I recognize that sometimes "shit happens", and think of having the means for personal defense to be no different than having the means to put out a car-fire.  If the circumstances come into play, I want to have a vote in how it comes out, not just be a passive recipient of (whatever a violent person decides to do to me, having demonstrated that he/she has no interest in "getting along with me") and "hoping" it turns out OK.

Your argument fails with U.S. Department of Justice data.

The "just-in-case" gun that you carry is less likely to be used for your intended purpose than  for an unintended purpose.

What you call a "ridiculous extreme" is in fact the more common likelihood.

Fire extinguishers, car insurance, spare tires and road flares rarely kill children by accident, they rarely are used in the heat of passion or despair for an unintended purpose.

Perhaps you needed to take a statistics class along with that debate class.

If you enjoy your guns, then enjoy them, you don't need an excuse, it's your Constitutional right to keep them. So why make up nonsense?

I own two guns and neither of my guns have triggered a need to reimagine reality.

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On 10/19/2020 at 2:28 PM, silent bob said:

Some states, Florida being one, prohibit Open Carry but allow Concealed Carry with a permit.  

Yeah, shit's all fucked up ... but apparently a sufficiently large proportion of Floridians prefer to exercise their constitutional right in secrecy with permission rather than openly and notoriously without permission.

Cue Normy's "may and shall" moldy peaches.

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On 10/20/2020 at 12:03 AM, Burning Man said:

Anymore, on the rare occasion I do carry - I carry OC almost exclusively.  Mainly because 9 months out of the year it's too hot to wear anything to conceal it.  A jacket or long shirt in 110F weather is pretty much a dead giveaway you're CCW anyway, and it's miserably hot to boot.  So OC is better all around in that situation.  

OC is better in all situations. You're advertising your commitment to your Constitutional rights, you warn the soft flowers from a distance that you're armed, you don't need to dig through a "tactical purse" to find your gun, and you presumably don't need to ask anyone's permission to carry your gun.

Now, if you switch from openly carrying a handgun to openly carrying a lightweight long gun, you'll then usually have a more effective tool for most intended purposes. 

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On 10/23/2020 at 5:17 PM, Autonomous said:

The lightweight projectile yields very low recoil for the caliber. My wife's choice for her light purse gun. 

Interesting.  Does she ever have failure to feed issues?  Might be a good round to use in something like an M&P EZ

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

Now, if you switch from openly carrying a handgun to openly carrying a lightweight long gun, you'll then usually have a more effective tool for most intended purposes. 

See the source image

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Your argument fails with U.S. Department of Justice data.

Meh.  The CDC studied "defensive use of firearms" a few years back and found that firearms were used by law-abiding people to stop (rape, criminal assault, home invasion, whatever) as many as 3 million times a year.  that's not 3 million "murders", that's 3 million times a person "got a vote" in how a situation turned out.  A vote they wouldn't have had without a way of tilting the odds in their favor.

And that's the issue for me.  When my wife and I were dating, we went off on a road trip that had us going through some remote areas (pre-cellphone).  She was pretty adamantly anti-gun, but I commonly had one in the car, so I felt it was courteous to advise her of it.  She asked why I had it, did I "want to shoot someone"?  Nope.  But... if the car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and 50 Hells Angels (or whatever) ride up and decide they want to have their way with her, I want a "vote".  I have NO desire to shoot someone, but I absolutely want to be able to help them decide that we are not defenseless, and that they should move along.  No harm, no foul.

Without that firearm, my only choice is to be a spectator to whatever they decided to do to her.

Next time we went on a road trip, she asked if I had a gun in the car.  when I said yes, she nodded and said "good".

I've NEVER had the need to pull a gun in anger.  God willing, I never will have to.  But there are a number of times I've been very glad I had one with me, because a situation was unfolding where I was concerned for my life.  I truly do think of it as no different than a fire extinguisher - I hope I never need to use it, but if I DO need it, I'd rather have it with me than back at home.

So it goes.

I have plenty of background in statistics, both through classes in university and in real-life use in the professional world.  Enough to know that it is ridiculously easy to lie with statistics (and/or obfuscate results the researched doesn't like - case in point, the CDC didn't publish the study mentioned above, because it didn't conform to their "the mere presence of a gun is a public-health issue" narrative).  

I'd fall back to an easier-to-understand statistic.  There are something like 100 million law-abiding gun owners in the US.  and more every day (something like 3m first-time gun-owners since March).  If we were "the problem", you'd know it.  

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6 hours ago, sshow bob said:

Interesting.  Does she ever have failure to feed issues?  Might be a good round to use in something like an M&P EZ

Good question, you'd definitely want to determine it was compatible with your pistol.

My wife carries a revolver so it is assumed the gun will go bang each time.

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On 10/22/2020 at 10:55 AM, IStream said:

The 22's that can tolerate dry firing, like the Rugers, keep the pin away from contact with the breech via some sort of pin travel stop. On the older Ruger pistols it was a pin running across the bolt and through a slot in the (flat) firing pin. The back edge of the slot in the firing pin would hit the cross pin before the nose of the firing pin could hit the breech. Unless there was some defect in the firing pin, it would probably take a million hits for the firing pin to suffer any damage from dry firing. 

Firing Pin

Ah, good call.  Thanks

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14 hours ago, sledracr said:

Meh.  The CDC studied "defensive use of firearms" a few years back and found that firearms were used by law-abiding people to stop (rape, criminal assault, home invasion, whatever) as many as 3 million times a year.  that's not 3 million "murders", that's 3 million times a person "got a vote" in how a situation turned out.  A vote they wouldn't have had without a way of tilting the odds in their favor.

And that's the issue for me.  When my wife and I were dating, we went off on a road trip that had us going through some remote areas (pre-cellphone).  She was pretty adamantly anti-gun, but I commonly had one in the car, so I felt it was courteous to advise her of it.  She asked why I had it, did I "want to shoot someone"?  Nope.  But... if the car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and 50 Hells Angels (or whatever) ride up and decide they want to have their way with her, I want a "vote".  I have NO desire to shoot someone, but I absolutely want to be able to help them decide that we are not defenseless, and that they should move along.  No harm, no foul.

Without that firearm, my only choice is to be a spectator to whatever they decided to do to her.

Next time we went on a road trip, she asked if I had a gun in the car.  when I said yes, she nodded and said "good".

I've NEVER had the need to pull a gun in anger.  God willing, I never will have to.  But there are a number of times I've been very glad I had one with me, because a situation was unfolding where I was concerned for my life.  I truly do think of it as no different than a fire extinguisher - I hope I never need to use it, but if I DO need it, I'd rather have it with me than back at home.

So it goes.

I have plenty of background in statistics, both through classes in university and in real-life use in the professional world.  Enough to know that it is ridiculously easy to lie with statistics (and/or obfuscate results the researched doesn't like - case in point, the CDC didn't publish the study mentioned above, because it didn't conform to their "the mere presence of a gun is a public-health issue" narrative).  

I'd fall back to an easier-to-understand statistic.  There are something like 100 million law-abiding gun owners in the US.  and more every day (something like 3m first-time gun-owners since March).  If we were "the problem", you'd know it.  

This is getting into PA territory. But we had the DGU (defensive use of gun) argument back in PA about two years ago. It turns out that it's a statistic that is based in little more than wishes and fairy godmother juice. When you actually parse the Department of Justice data, the actual number of times that people have used guns against assailants or intruders who they didn't actually know, and in regular neighborhoods that aren't poverty stricken, was somewhere around a hundred.

So yeah, if you do lots of business in rough neighborhoods, or if you have family or acquaintances that might be the kind of people to jack you, then yeah, arm up. But this idea that guns are keeping the hordes at bay isn't really going to work if data and precision still mean something in the face of fear-mongering and alarmism.

If you like your guns, keep your gun. But this idea that we're somehow more moral because we have a gun in our lady-purse that we didn't use to kill someone today, just starts to take on the odor of bullshit. There is nothing about that gun that connects you to the mainline of humanity, and it's most likely that anyone who uses their gun for professional crime-making, and has been doing so while you were watching reruns of All In The Family, will outshoot you.

And the concealed carry people know that they are little more than amateur gunmen. So they keep their guns hidden.

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I love how you're all about the "data and precision"... and then throw around ad-hominems ("lady purse"?  really?) like they bolster your argument.  That's... cute.

I think the odor of bullshit is coming from you.  Especially when you talk about "professional crime-[makers]" vs the average gun owner.

Is there a bell-curve of proficiency for each?  Sure.  But most gun owners are into shooting their guns for hobby or sport, and they're far more proficient than the thug who picked up a stolen gun from somewhere.  (Most gun hobbyists are more proficient than the average *cop*.)     But, whatever.  Don't let facts get in the way, you do you.

9 hours ago, mikewof said:

But this idea that guns are keeping the hordes at bay isn't really going to work if data and precision still mean something

Except... it's real.  Here's one small example.  Early in the COVID era I went up to check on the boat early on a Sunday morning.  Route takes me through a hilly section of downtown.  I stopped at a red light, and before I really knew what was happening 6 people came out of the bushes near the intersection and took positions around my car.  One in front so I couldn't scoot through the light without hitting him... one in back so I couldn't clear the intersection the other direction, and the other four at the sides of the car looking in the windows.  And this was on a sleepy Sunday morning in a downtown area of a fairly well-run northwest city.

My mental calculus was
-- if they get out of the way when the light changes, no harm, no foul
-- if they start trying door-handles, I'm going to lean on the horn and start edging the car forward 
-- if a weapon appears, or they start breaking windows, I'm considering that an imminent threat.

In other words, I assessed the potential threat, and identified what I would allow, and what I might need to do if things went past that point. 

As it turns out, they moved back to the bushes when the light changed (presumably because they didn't see anything in the car that would be an easy grab).  But... it could have gone very differently - for ME - if they'd turned a corner toward aggression or violence.  Watch the video of Reginald Denny being pulled from his truck and beaten senseless by a mob at the beginning of the Rodney King riots.  Sometimes the hordes *do* get violent, and it can happen in a heartbeat.

I had a gun on me.  It never came out, and never needed to.  They never knew, and never needed to.  I keep my guns "hidden" because it's nobody's business what I do or don't have on me.  In many places, the mere sight of a gun is considered an "implied threat" or "incitement of violence".  I have no interest in being the center of attention in a potentially volatile situation, let alone putting myself in legal jeopardy (e.g., "brandishing" is a crime).  

Nor did I feel the need to "kill someone" that day.  I have exactly zero "desire" to *use* my gun, but I absolutely have the willingness if I believe it is the only option I have in a life-threatening situation.  And, to the point you seem to have missed in all your arm-waving, without a gun I don't have *any* options in a life-threatening situation except to go along with whatever they decide to do.  

(ObNote, as I drove away I called the PD and reported the incident.  They said they knew about the group and, as long as they didn't touch the car or impede progress after the light changed or take any aggressive actions, no crime took place.  And I agree... but those were exactly the same things I was paying attention to "in the moment").

You say "there is nothing about that gun that connects [me] to the mainline of humanity".  You're dead wrong.  The thread that connects me to the mainline of humanity is the willingness to protect myself and/or my loved ones, in the event that someone attempts to do us physical harm.  It's a prime directive.

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3 minutes ago, sledracr said:

  It's a prime directive.

The number of guns flooding our society makes us one of the most dangerous places to live. 

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2 hours ago, sledracr said:

Except... it's real.  Here's one small example.  Early in the COVID era I went up to check on the boat early on a Sunday morning.  Route takes me through a hilly section of downtown.  I stopped at a red light, and before I really knew what was happening 6 people came out of the bushes near the intersection and took positions around my car.  One in front so I couldn't scoot through the light without hitting him... one in back so I couldn't clear the intersection the other direction, and the other four at the sides of the car looking in the windows.  And this was on a sleepy Sunday morning in a downtown area of a fairly well-run northwest city.

I had a similar experience, though it was in about 1991.  I was a dumb kid driving a red convertible in a dumb place at night.  Similarly surrounded at a light.  There were a lot of car jackings at the time in that area, and we were taught in driver's ed that the normal strategy of giving up whatever a mugger wanted didn't apply to the car itself, since you'd then be stuck.  I am still amazed at how fast that situation evolved.  In the end, I didn't wait for the grab or the light.  I punched it and the guy in front off me moved quickly enough to not get hit. (80's design turbo lag probably helped him)

One thing that I took away from it, and think about in my own self-defense planning, is that there was a zero percent chance of tracking all those people, and doing anything about most of them, on a timeframe that would mean anything to my self-preservation.  Maybe the survivors bolt when the first one goes down?  I hope so. It factors into my personal choice not to worry about small capacity magazines.  I figure eight is enough because I'm not going to get the third shot off against multiple targets, anyway.  Situational awareness matters.

 

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4 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Gentlemen, PA is just a couple clicks away. Mind the screen door.

 

This is a serious, respectful dialogue about real life situations.  I don't think it's inappropriate in GA....

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14 hours ago, mikewof said:

This is getting into PA territory.

Yes, and you should have just stopped there.  

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22 hours ago, sshow bob said:

Situational awareness matters.

In the belief that this is still respectful and non-political.... I'd say two things.

One, it's worth keeping in mind that shoving someone out of the way with your car can be considered "use of deadly force".  The standard for justified use of deadly force is generally "I believed my life was in imminent danger".  If surrounded by a group of people, but not "in imminent fear of your life", hitting the gas might be every bit as much a legal risk as pulling a gun.

And, two, yeah, my every-day carry gear is 10-round magazines.  Partly because, as you say, more than that is probably not relevant.  Partly because, if I ever do have to use my tools, I don't want to be a headline ("look, this guy used high-capacity magazines!  OMG!!!!  He must have been looking for an opportunity to murder lots of people!!!")  I assume that everything I do, say and use will be (at least) a factor in the resulting trial and (at worst) used to paint me as a vigilante.  I keep my *own* risk-profile in mind whenever carrying.

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On 10/27/2020 at 11:18 AM, sledracr said:

I love how you're all about the "data and precision"... and then throw around ad-hominems ("lady purse"?  really?) like they bolster your argument.  That's... cute.

I think the odor of bullshit is coming from you.  Especially when you talk about "professional crime-[makers]" vs the average gun owner.

Is there a bell-curve of proficiency for each?  Sure.  But most gun owners are into shooting their guns for hobby or sport, and they're far more proficient than the thug who picked up a stolen gun from somewhere.  (Most gun hobbyists are more proficient than the average *cop*.)     But, whatever.  Don't let facts get in the way, you do you.

Except... it's real.  Here's one small example.  Early in the COVID era I went up to check on the boat early on a Sunday morning.  Route takes me through a hilly section of downtown.  I stopped at a red light, and before I really knew what was happening 6 people came out of the bushes near the intersection and took positions around my car.  One in front so I couldn't scoot through the light without hitting him... one in back so I couldn't clear the intersection the other direction, and the other four at the sides of the car looking in the windows.  And this was on a sleepy Sunday morning in a downtown area of a fairly well-run northwest city.

My mental calculus was
-- if they get out of the way when the light changes, no harm, no foul
-- if they start trying door-handles, I'm going to lean on the horn and start edging the car forward 
-- if a weapon appears, or they start breaking windows, I'm considering that an imminent threat.

In other words, I assessed the potential threat, and identified what I would allow, and what I might need to do if things went past that point. 

As it turns out, they moved back to the bushes when the light changed (presumably because they didn't see anything in the car that would be an easy grab).  But... it could have gone very differently - for ME - if they'd turned a corner toward aggression or violence.  Watch the video of Reginald Denny being pulled from his truck and beaten senseless by a mob at the beginning of the Rodney King riots.  Sometimes the hordes *do* get violent, and it can happen in a heartbeat.

I had a gun on me.  It never came out, and never needed to.  They never knew, and never needed to.  I keep my guns "hidden" because it's nobody's business what I do or don't have on me.  In many places, the mere sight of a gun is considered an "implied threat" or "incitement of violence".  I have no interest in being the center of attention in a potentially volatile situation, let alone putting myself in legal jeopardy (e.g., "brandishing" is a crime).  

Nor did I feel the need to "kill someone" that day.  I have exactly zero "desire" to *use* my gun, but I absolutely have the willingness if I believe it is the only option I have in a life-threatening situation.  And, to the point you seem to have missed in all your arm-waving, without a gun I don't have *any* options in a life-threatening situation except to go along with whatever they decide to do.  

(ObNote, as I drove away I called the PD and reported the incident.  They said they knew about the group and, as long as they didn't touch the car or impede progress after the light changed or take any aggressive actions, no crime took place.  And I agree... but those were exactly the same things I was paying attention to "in the moment").

You say "there is nothing about that gun that connects [me] to the mainline of humanity".  You're dead wrong.  The thread that connects me to the mainline of humanity is the willingness to protect myself and/or my loved ones, in the event that someone attempts to do us physical harm.  It's a prime directive.

I dunno, I guess a live in a different world than a lot of gun owners.  I've cruised through L.A. County, Corona, Gravesend, South Bronx, Washington Heights, though not much in Chicago ... so far nothing more than some chump who punched like a five year old girl and tried to mug me on the G-Train in Brooklyn. Even a skateboard would have been way more weapon needed for that one.

If I moved through the world with people blocking off my truck and trying to shoot me like in a Mad Max movie, I guess I might get a little Bernie Goetz. For now though, the guns in my life are more the "leave 'em in storage" type.

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9 hours ago, sledracr said:

One, it's worth keeping in mind that shoving someone out of the way with your car can be considered "use of deadly force".  The standard for justified use of deadly force is generally "I believed my life was in imminent danger".  If surrounded by a group of people, but not "in imminent fear of your life", hitting the gas might be every bit as much a legal risk as pulling a gun.

Except if surrounded by thugs on all sides of your car at night, I would definitely feel my life was in imminent danger.  However, I would probably wait until they started going for the car before punching it.  Them just standing there likely wouldn't be enough in a court of law.  

The actual greater danger in this scenario would be to be boxed in by other vehicles.  Pedestrians are easy to deal with and get away from.  Other cars on all sides, not so much.  I had to go through a counter-terrorist defensive driving course while on assignment in a particularly dodgy part of the world.  The worst scenario was someone would box you in from in front and behind at a traffic light with other cars around on both sides to block you in - whether by design or by accident.  First of all, most of the course was about recognizing and planning for these situations ahead of time so as not to get boxed in.  IOW, building situational awareness.  Maybe hang back at a light or in a row of traffic and leave yourself several car gaps in front if stopped to have room to maneuver.  But if you did find yourself boxed in and tangos were obviously there to kill or kidnap you, use the car as a battering ram to push other cars out of the way, even innocent bystanders.  No traffic laws apply in that case any longer.  Do what you have to do to get out.  And never get out of the vehicles as long as it's still possible to drive, even if it's severely damaged.  Once on foot in a hostile environment, you're mostly fucked.  

But the main thing was just to maintain a hyper vigilant amount of SA at all times.  Avoiding a situation is far better than trying to fight your way out.  

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Moving back to our regularly scheduled programing;

My workhorse everyday shotgun is a 1990's vintage 12 gauge Beretta 391 Xtrema with synthetic stock and forend.  After 20 years of use the rubber inserts in the forend, and to a lesser degree the stock, have deteriorated to a Play-Doh consistency.   I'm currently sourcing a red-neck replacement solution for the inserts, but would really like to get a replacement for the forend.

The problem is that the forend for this model has been discontinued in the US and while the Italian mother ship appears to have the part, they won't ship to the US.  When I requested Beretta US to assist me in getting a part from Italy they indicated no can do.  I've checked most of my domestic go to sources for parts, Brownells, Midwest Gun Works etc.  I've also done several searches on Numrich.

So here's the ask, any chance any of you have a suggestion on where I might find this elusive forend?

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We had a heroin dealer threatening to kill us and people shooting at our house. Not worried about that now, but at the time I was glad we had the ability to defend ourselves if needed. I think the only reason we did not have anyone go beyond shooting at the house while driving by was that they knew I was armed. That will never show up in a report as a DGU, but to my mind it was a far better outcome than actually having to use a gun. 

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33 minutes ago, pbd said:

Moving back to our regularly scheduled programing;

My workhorse everyday shotgun is a 1990's vintage 12 gauge Beretta 391 Xtrema with synthetic stock and forend.  After 20 years of use the rubber inserts in the forend, and to a lesser degree the stock, have deteriorated to a Play-Doh consistency.   I'm currently sourcing a red-neck replacement solution for the inserts, but would really like to get a replacement for the forend.

The problem is that the forend for this model has been discontinued in the US and while the Italian mother ship appears to have the part, they won't ship to the US.  When I requested Beretta US to assist me in getting a part from Italy they indicated no can do.  I've checked most of my domestic go to sources for parts, Brownells, Midwest Gun Works etc.  I've also done several searches on Numrich.

So here's the ask, any chance any of you have a suggestion on where I might find this elusive forend?

Photo please 

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57 minutes ago, pbd said:

IMG_0536.jpg

IMG_0535.jpg

 

Here's the damage, let me know if you want to know what the entire forend looks like

 

Here's an image of the forend

 

Forend.jpg

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2 hours ago, LenP said:

We had a heroin dealer threatening to kill us and people shooting at our house. Not worried about that now, but at the time I was glad we had the ability to defend ourselves if needed. I think the only reason we did not have anyone go beyond shooting at the house while driving by was that they knew I was armed. That will never show up in a report as a DGU, but to my mind it was a far better outcome than actually having to use a gun. 

In most DGUs, the victim presents the gun, and the aggressor suddenly remembers he has a pressing engagement elsewhere.  There are theories that ~70% of the DGU fall into some similar category.  They are usually not reported to the authorities. 

I have seen the effect of armed citizens have on criminals: During the Rodney King Intermurals, the rioters burned businesses right up to the start of our subdivision. When I asked our Deputy assigned to our Neighborhood Watch, he grinned and said Nobody wants to get shot.

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2 hours ago, pbd said:

 1990's vintage 12 gauge Beretta 391 Xtrema with synthetic stock and forend. 

Doesn't look like they have one, but the places I'd keep an eye on are

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/beretta/shotguns-beretta/al391

....or Coles

https://www.shop.colegun.com/search?q=beretta+391+forend

...or maybe MGW

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/beretta-391/forends.html

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1 minute ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

During the Rodney King Intermurals.... I asked our Deputy assigned to our Neighborhood Watch

You were lucky.  In my neighborhood (a nice little corner of Redondo Beach, just outside the center ring of the intermurals) the police un-assed the area and stayed out for several days.  Eventually things calmed down when the National Guard rolled in. 

It gets your attention when the mob loots and then burns down the gun store a couple of blocks over.  Or when you have to show your ID to a guy in a armored vehicle in order to get back into your neighborhood.

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58 minutes ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

In most DGUs, the victim presents the gun, and the aggressor suddenly remembers he has a pressing engagement elsewhere. Been there... There are theories that ~70% of the DGU fall into some similar category.  They are usually not reported to the authorities.   ...done that.
 

 

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2 hours ago, sledracr said:

You were lucky.  In my neighborhood (a nice little corner of Redondo Beach, just outside the center ring of the intermurals) the police un-assed the area and stayed out for several days.  Eventually things calmed down when the National Guard rolled in. 

It gets your attention when the mob loots and then burns down the gun store a couple of blocks over.  Or when you have to show your ID to a guy in a armored vehicle in order to get back into your neighborhood.

Our experiences were largely the same: Up in Norte Long Beach, we didn't see a cop for 3 days. There was only walls of smoke on three sides. We had youts "wilding" just outside our subdivision. Bastards burned down my favorite Greek Burger.

When I asked our Deputy later, he said they were on "Strategic Protection". There  was no further explanation. (Rumor has it that about half the force stayed home to protect their families - can't blame 'em.)  Except for my skeet shotgun and a half a box of target loads, I was pretty much flat on it.  Thank gawd my neighbors weren't as stupid. Found out later there was an amazing amount of iron behind those curtains. They protected when the cops couldn't or wouldn't.    

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3 hours ago, sledracr said:

You were lucky.  In my neighborhood (a nice little corner of Redondo Beach, just outside the center ring of the intermurals) the police un-assed the area and stayed out for several days.  Eventually things calmed down when the National Guard rolled in. 

It gets your attention when the mob loots and then burns down the gun store a couple of blocks over.  Or when you have to show your ID to a guy in a armored vehicle in order to get back into your neighborhood.

Who the fook drew up the boundary on Redondo Beach?  

F8442A87-BB12-4B89-9927-AF2E0CB2BC9E.jpeg

 

I finally figured out why the hoodlums burn Busses and Police Cars after their team wins a championship.  They, and their cousins, don't want to be riding in either!

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15 hours ago, Autonomous said:

In most DGUs, the victim presents the gun, and the aggressor suddenly remembers he has a pressing engagement elsewhere. Been there... There are theories that ~70% of the DGU fall into some similar category.  They are usually not reported to the authorities.   ...done that.

Glad you're okay.  Been on the wrong end of a gun, myself.  No fun. 

Cops will tell you the crooks don't fear the law, police, courts or prison.  There's always the rules restraining the cops, the public defenders, defendant-biased court rules, crusading civil rights attorneys, plea-bargins, appeals, bleeding-heart groups, police review boards, and the press to succor them. At worse, they'll face a few years in a court controlled prison with Cable, medical, meals, gyms and career instruction from hardened inmates until they're given early release and unsupervised parole.

The crooks are petrified of the old, fat, balding, sweating, scared homeowner with one slipper, holey boxer shorts and a 12 gauge. There's no appeal when the guy blows a hole through the criminal threatening his family. 

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1 hour ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Glad you're okay.  Been on the wrong end of a gun, myself.  No fun. 

Cops will tell you the crooks don't fear the law, police, courts or prison.  There's always the rules restraining the cops, the public defenders, defendant-biased court rules, crusading civil rights attorneys, plea-bargins, appeals, bleeding-heart groups, police review boards, and the press to succor them. At worse, they'll face a few years in a court controlled prison with Cable, medical, meals, gyms and career instruction from hardened inmates until they're given early release and unsupervised parole.

The crooks are petrified of the old, fat, balding, sweating, scared homeowner with one slipper, holey boxer shorts and a 12 gauge. There's no appeal when the guy blows a hole through the criminal threatening his family. 

Hey, I still have my hair!

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1 hour ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:

Glad you're okay.  Been on the wrong end of a gun, myself.  No fun. 

Cops will tell you the crooks don't fear the law, police, courts or prison.  There's always the rules restraining the cops, the public defenders, defendant-biased court rules, crusading civil rights attorneys, plea-bargins, appeals, bleeding-heart groups, police review boards, and the press to succor them. At worse, they'll face a few years in a court controlled prison with Cable, medical, meals, gyms and career instruction from hardened inmates until they're given early release and unsupervised parole.

The crooks are petrified of the old, fat, balding, sweating, scared homeowner with one slipper, holey boxer shorts and a 12 gauge. There's no appeal when the guy blows a hole through the criminal threatening his family. 

 

31 minutes ago, LenP said:

Hey, I still have my hair!

 

81F94541-A490-4E84-B07B-7A107C0704AC.jpeg

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2 hours ago, LenP said:

Hey, I still have my hair!

.... old, fat, balding, sweating, scared homeowner with one slipper, holey boxer shorts and a 12 gauge.... 

Hmm... I think I was prolly describing myself.   Except for the Gauge.    ;)

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1 hour ago, silent bob said:

 

 

81F94541-A490-4E84-B07B-7A107C0704AC.jpeg

 

For years there was a sign at the end of the driveway, of a small farm on Coast Guard Road,on Block Island.  Fairly crudely made wood marked,

 "Bad Dog, Good Shot, Better Not!"

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Shooting two handed, or shooting with two pistols, must take some serious practice to not be completely dog shit at it.

 

My action, trigger, and barrel should be in early to mid December.  The chassis and optics are in

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