JimBowie

Bow-Cow Fugly

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What are we traditionalist to make of all the new weird shapes and sizes of modern race boats?  INEOS AC 75? Hideous.  Now this fugly-duckling raises it's gnarly head to gender-bender the traditional shapes of IOR days gone by in new and sickly slick ways.

 

pierre_bouras__bo_6462.jpeg

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Form appears to have taken the wrong turn at the last crossroads after it fell out of sight behind function.

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C

You must have been waiting a long time to use that pic!

It’s a perfect match though. She’s ready for the sprit!!

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The bloke in a surfing pose on the foredeck I think is a clue to the inspiration for that bow.  

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On 11/28/2019 at 4:15 PM, JimBowie said:

What are we traditionalist to make of all the new weird shapes and sizes of modern race boats?  INEOS AC 75? Hideous.  Now this fugly-duckling raises it's gnarly head to gender-bender the traditional shapes of IOR days gone by in new and sickly slick ways.

 

pierre_bouras__bo_6462.jpeg

It doesn't matter since it's  aerodynamic a piercing solution.
When they win it will be revolutionary.
You want something with the style of endeauvour.
Well, I must say that when you compare the two...
1141173443_IneosteamUK.thumb.jpg.9420fa9acedb109f109983419f977794.jpg
endeavour.jpg.62632b114a3ee07f26b37353ec9557bd.jpg

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On 11/28/2019 at 7:15 AM, JimBowie said:

What are we traditionalist to make of all the new weird shapes and sizes of modern race boats?  INEOS AC 75? Hideous.  Now this fugly-duckling raises it's gnarly head to gender-bender the traditional shapes of IOR days gone by in new and sickly slick ways.

 

pierre_bouras__bo_6462.jpeg

Well, you are looking at the unfinished deck right? I like the new look of boats because I want to go really really fast. Why go slow?

I wish I had some $$ to help speed my boat.

 

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13 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

 I like the new look of boats because I want to go really really fast. Why go slow?

So people can see you stylin' of course.

You don't know about L.A. lowriders I take it?

 

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:35 AM, SloopJonB said:

So people can see you stylin' of course.

You don't know about L.A. lowriders I take it?

 

I've lived in SO Call since I was 1970. Yes, I know about low riders. WTF do low riders have to do with sailboats?

 

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2 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

I've lived in SO Call since I was 1970. Yes, I know about low riders. WTF do low riders have to do with sailboats?

I want to go really really fast. Why go slow?

So people can see you stylin' of course.

Too complicated for you?

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Love the plate on C&C's ride. You could not get away with that shit today. 

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On 12/6/2019 at 1:35 PM, SloopJonB said:

So people can see you stylin' of course.

You don't know about L.A. lowriders I take it?

 

People having a great time showing off their creations. While it's not for me, I love it!

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Some of the most interesting stuff in the past decade has been the changes in prismatic and rocker.

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On 12/8/2019 at 9:15 PM, SloopJonB said:

I want to go really really fast. Why go slow?

So people can see you stylin' of course.

Too complicated for you?

Yea, it is a bit too complicated. W we are talking sailing not beaner hopping mobiles.
No styling going slow in a sailboat.

 

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I beg to differ.

You have an extremely narrow view of sailing.

Nice streak of racism too - fitting.

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Meh, race boats are not drawn to be pretty, they are designed to be fast, form follows function, so a fast boat cannot be ugly.

The real question for me is why keep the middle of these boats?  Only one real way of getting multihull levels of righting moment?

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18 minutes ago, maxstaylock said:

Meh, race boats are not drawn to be pretty, they are designed to be fast, form follows function, so a fast boat cannot be ugly.

there it is.

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10 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

Meh, race boats are not drawn to be pretty, they are designed to be fast, form follows function, so a fast boat cannot be ugly.

Yeah they can. Sometimes form gets so far behind function that they lose all contact.

What you're saying is the same as saying all those girls "with great personalities" are also beautiful.

 

Jones Freak.jpg

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22 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah they can. Sometimes form gets so far behind function that they lose all contact.

What you're saying is the same as saying all those girls "with great personalities" are also beautiful.

 

 

no he's not.   he's saying that an ugly girl who can fuck you blind is not an ugly girl for long. I concur.

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On 12/10/2019 at 7:49 PM, SloopJonB said:

I beg to differ.

You have an extremely narrow view of sailing.

 

OOPPPPP, there it is

33641467-santa-maria-nina-and-pinta-of-c

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15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah they can. Sometimes form gets so far behind function that they lose all contact.

What you're saying is the same as saying all those girls "with great personalities" are also beautiful.

 

Jones Freak.jpg

I used to sail on a sistership to this, when we won, we thought her the prettiest girl at the dance.  I loved the look of the clipper bow, the fat ass gave more stability downwind than a half tonner has a right to expect, even the runners made the race more fun.  True, and thankfully, things have moved on, but for their time, the above lumpy funny looking thing was a real grin factory.

We moan nowadays that boats all look the same, I salute designers not ruled by convention, especially the ones who send their creations to the racetrack, to be ridiculed or applauded (and coppied) depending on success.  Every advance in race boat design has been ridiculed at first, before it blows the competition away, then we wonder why we did it any other way.

David Raison, (and Stephen Jones), we salute you.

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19 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah they can. Sometimes form gets so far behind function that they lose all contact.

What you're saying is the same as saying all those girls "with great personalities" are also beautiful.

+1.

This is beautiful:

ec6d3d28a4d115c61dd55556c74a4202.jpg

And this is not:

1288317_9607007-voi06-20110502-w001a.jpg

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On 12/6/2019 at 2:35 PM, SloopJonB said:

So people can see you stylin' of course.

You don't know about L.A. lowriders I take it?

 

America's contribution to culture

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On 11/28/2019 at 9:15 AM, JimBowie said:

What are we traditionalist to make of all the new weird shapes and sizes of modern race boats?  INEOS AC 75? Hideous.  Now this fugly-duckling raises it's gnarly head to gender-bender the traditional shapes of IOR days gone by in new and sickly slick ways.

 

pierre_bouras__bo_6462.jpeg

What you are seeing here is actually due to rule restrictions in IMOCA which limit bow volume.  If those limits were removed I'd bet this boat would look much more like a traditional scow, which I'm sure you would be much more comfortable with as a traditionalist.

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I'm as much a traditionalist as anybody (if somebody else is doing the varnishing).  But if a boat is fast, it's a good boat.  What's ugly are slow boats built in weird ways to exploit obscure handicap rules and win on time.  Dunno yet which category the OP picture fits in.  We will see.

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

America's contribution to culture

Peter Fonda said it best.

A snotty Frenchman stated that America's only contributions to culture were "Hamburgers, Harley Davidsons and Rock & Roll"

Fonda said "What else do you need?". :D

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3 minutes ago, The great unwashed said:

 if a boat is fast, it's a good boat. 

Maybe so but that's not the same thing as beautiful.

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42 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Peter Fonda said it best.

A snotty Frenchman stated that America's only contributions to culture were "Hamburgers, Harley Davidsons and Rock & Roll"

Fonda said "What else do you need?". :D

Everyone want's what they lack America has hamburgers, Harleys, Rock and Roll and I would add Hollywood

in the immortal words of the great French  Privateer Surcouf...

When a British captive officer challenged Surcouf with the words "You French fight for money while we fight for honour", Surcouf replied "Each of us fights for what he lacks most"

the question is what is America fighting for?

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7 minutes ago, KC375 said:

the question is what is America fighting for?

For the 1%

https://ca.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrXpnTU0_NdhEAAKykXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=huge+homes&type=teff_8503_FFW_CA_tid328nrm&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&param1=77115549265&param2=eyJ1YSI6Ik1vemlsbGFcLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCAxMC4wOyBXaW42NDsgeDY0OyBydjo3MS4wKSBHZWNrb1wvMjAxMDAxMDEgRmlyZWZveFwvNzEuMCIsImlwIjoiMjAwMTo1Njk6N2FkMzoxZjAwOjM0ODI6N2ZhMDo3YzdjOjU1ZjQiLCJnZW8iOiJjYSJ9&param3=eyJ2ZXJ0aWNhbCI6InByaXZhdGVTZWFyY2giLCJ5aWQiOiJ0ZWZmIiwiY3RhZyI6Ijg1MDNfZmlkMTQ5X3RpZDMyOG5ybV9scDIzLjUuZGtfd2l0MTU3NDk5MTUxNiIsImRvbWFpbiI6Ind3dy50aGVzYWZlcnNlYXJjaC5jb20iLCJxdWVyeSI6Imh1Z2UgaG9tZXMifQ%3D%3D&param4=eyJjIjo0OSwicSI6dHJ1ZX0%3D&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-1

 

https://ca.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrWpyko0_NdckoANhsXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=huge+yachts&type=teff_8503_FFW_CA_tid328nrm&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&param1=77115549265&param2=eyJ1YSI6Ik1vemlsbGFcLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCAxMC4wOyBXaW42NDsgeDY0OyBydjo3MS4wKSBHZWNrb1wvMjAxMDAxMDEgRmlyZWZveFwvNzEuMCIsImlwIjoiMjAwMTo1Njk6N2FkMzoxZjAwOjM0ODI6N2ZhMDo3YzdjOjU1ZjQiLCJnZW8iOiJjYSJ9&param3=eyJ2ZXJ0aWNhbCI6InByaXZhdGVTZWFyY2giLCJ5aWQiOiJ0ZWZmIiwiY3RhZyI6Ijg1MDNfZmlkMTQ5X3RpZDMyOG5ybV9scDIzLjUuZGtfd2l0MTU3NDk5MTUxNiIsImRvbWFpbiI6Ind3dy50aGVzYWZlcnNlYXJjaC5jb20iLCJxdWVyeSI6Imh1Z2UgeWFjaHRzIn0%3D&param4=eyJjIjo0OSwicSI6dHJ1ZX0%3D&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-1

 

https://ca.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrUiZ1k0_NdSH0ALhgXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=corporate+signage&type=teff_8503_FFW_CA_tid328nrm&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&param1=77115549265&param2=eyJ1YSI6Ik1vemlsbGFcLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCAxMC4wOyBXaW42NDsgeDY0OyBydjo3MS4wKSBHZWNrb1wvMjAxMDAxMDEgRmlyZWZveFwvNzEuMCIsImlwIjoiMjAwMTo1Njk6N2FkMzoxZjAwOjM0ODI6N2ZhMDo3YzdjOjU1ZjQiLCJnZW8iOiJjYSJ9&param3=eyJ2ZXJ0aWNhbCI6InByaXZhdGVTZWFyY2giLCJ5aWQiOiJ0ZWZmIiwiY3RhZyI6Ijg1MDNfZmlkMTQ5X3RpZDMyOG5ybV9scDIzLjUuZGtfd2l0MTU3NDk5MTUxNiIsImRvbWFpbiI6Ind3dy50aGVzYWZlcnNlYXJjaC5jb20iLCJxdWVyeSI6ImNvcnBvcmF0ZSBzaWduYWdlIn0%3D&param4=eyJjIjo0OSwicSI6dHJ1ZX0%3D&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-1

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18 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

For the 1%

...

but you already have that :rolleyes:...I thought you'd be fighting for what you lack...

but before the purists arrive, back to your regular programming

238-BAR-1.jpg

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:32 AM, MiddayGun said:

Does a racer really care as long as its fast? 
 

Exactly.  If all you are seeing is the transom, who cares what the bow looks like!

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23 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

no he's not.   he's saying that an ugly girl who can fuck you blind is not an ugly girl for long. I concur.

The most amazing Tinder hook by far.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Peter Fonda said it best.

A snotty Frenchman stated that America's only contributions to culture were "Hamburgers, Harley Davidsons and Rock & Roll"

Fonda said "What else do you need?". :D

I concur except the only thing else that is needed is Fast Sailboats and a free market.

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On 12/13/2019 at 4:08 PM, KC375 said:

America's contribution to culture

You forgot scows...

I like the fact that a century ago European yachts were narrow whereas American yachts were wide... somehow a switch happened in the 1970s...

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On 12/14/2019 at 2:21 AM, r.finn said:

What you are seeing here is actually due to rule restrictions in IMOCA which limit bow volume.  If those limits were removed I'd bet this boat would look much more like a traditional scow, which I'm sure you would be much more comfortable with as a traditionalist.

How ugly is this?

780F0386-CC24-4E55-B8E2-98EFF5ACDC7F.jpeg

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On 12/14/2019 at 2:00 AM, Svanen said:

+1.

This is beautiful:

ec6d3d28a4d115c61dd55556c74a4202.jpg

And this is not:

1288317_9607007-voi06-20110502-w001a.jpg

Blame the rule, not the boat. Ditto for IOR. Try putting that beautiful traditional bow on a minitransat yacht and see how fast it would be. It would also probably be seriously ugly in other places to compensate.

“Beautiful” square metre design yachts evolved the way they are because they were designed to a rule which has effectively a one design sail plan, a minimum displacement, minimum midship cross section area with restricted shape and  minimum waterline length, with few restrictions on overhangs, which then become the best way to “cheat” extra waterline length when heeled...... You could also say the overhangs are a waste of useful volume and add to pitching moment for the sake of aesthetics.

45A283AD-E76D-4F74-A6FF-BD42C6964687.jpeg

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On 12/1/2019 at 2:17 AM, Schakel said:

It doesn't matter since it's  aerodynamic a piercing solution.
When they win it will be revolutionary.
You want something with the style of endeauvour.
Well, I must say that when you compare the two...
1141173443_IneosteamUK.thumb.jpg.9420fa9acedb109f109983419f977794.jpg
endeavour.jpg.62632b114a3ee07f26b37353ec9557bd.jpg

The other two boats are/will be faster than the much larger Endeavour and would also become even faster scows if it were not for their own bow restriction rules.

C37908EE-5864-49A0-BC17-4336BBE0C07E.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Sidecar said:

How ugly is this?

780F0386-CC24-4E55-B8E2-98EFF5ACDC7F.jpeg

Pretty ugly.

They may be fast but scows will never win a beauty contest.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Pretty ugly.

They may be fast...

On a lake, but I would prefer the mini scow going across the Atlantic. 

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1 minute ago, Varan said:

On a lake, but I would prefer the mini scow going across the Atlantic. 

only if constrained by max overall length

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9 hours ago, KC375 said:

only if constrained by max overall length

According to people who sail them, scows are safer and easier as it is nearly impossible to bury  the bow. Also apparently they don't slam that much when heeled.

Never sailed one but would certainly jump on the opportunity. At least never sailed an offshore one, I don't know how much you can extrapolate from a fireball, probably not much!

 

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On 12/13/2019 at 1:10 PM, SloopJonB said:

For the 1%

https://ca.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrXpnTU0_NdhEAAKykXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=huge+homes&type=teff_8503_FFW_CA_tid328nrm&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&param1=77115549265&param2=eyJ1YSI6Ik1vemlsbGFcLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCAxMC4wOyBXaW42NDsgeDY0OyBydjo3MS4wKSBHZWNrb1wvMjAxMDAxMDEgRmlyZWZveFwvNzEuMCIsImlwIjoiMjAwMTo1Njk6N2FkMzoxZjAwOjM0ODI6N2ZhMDo3YzdjOjU1ZjQiLCJnZW8iOiJjYSJ9&param3=eyJ2ZXJ0aWNhbCI6InByaXZhdGVTZWFyY2giLCJ5aWQiOiJ0ZWZmIiwiY3RhZyI6Ijg1MDNfZmlkMTQ5X3RpZDMyOG5ybV9scDIzLjUuZGtfd2l0MTU3NDk5MTUxNiIsImRvbWFpbiI6Ind3dy50aGVzYWZlcnNlYXJjaC5jb20iLCJxdWVyeSI6Imh1Z2UgaG9tZXMifQ%3D%3D&param4=eyJjIjo0OSwicSI6dHJ1ZX0%3D&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-1

 

https://ca.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrWpyko0_NdckoANhsXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=huge+yachts&type=teff_8503_FFW_CA_tid328nrm&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&param1=77115549265&param2=eyJ1YSI6Ik1vemlsbGFcLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCAxMC4wOyBXaW42NDsgeDY0OyBydjo3MS4wKSBHZWNrb1wvMjAxMDAxMDEgRmlyZWZveFwvNzEuMCIsImlwIjoiMjAwMTo1Njk6N2FkMzoxZjAwOjM0ODI6N2ZhMDo3YzdjOjU1ZjQiLCJnZW8iOiJjYSJ9&param3=eyJ2ZXJ0aWNhbCI6InByaXZhdGVTZWFyY2giLCJ5aWQiOiJ0ZWZmIiwiY3RhZyI6Ijg1MDNfZmlkMTQ5X3RpZDMyOG5ybV9scDIzLjUuZGtfd2l0MTU3NDk5MTUxNiIsImRvbWFpbiI6Ind3dy50aGVzYWZlcnNlYXJjaC5jb20iLCJxdWVyeSI6Imh1Z2UgeWFjaHRzIn0%3D&param4=eyJjIjo0OSwicSI6dHJ1ZX0%3D&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-1

 

https://ca.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrUiZ1k0_NdSH0ALhgXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=corporate+signage&type=teff_8503_FFW_CA_tid328nrm&hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&param1=77115549265&param2=eyJ1YSI6Ik1vemlsbGFcLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCAxMC4wOyBXaW42NDsgeDY0OyBydjo3MS4wKSBHZWNrb1wvMjAxMDAxMDEgRmlyZWZveFwvNzEuMCIsImlwIjoiMjAwMTo1Njk6N2FkMzoxZjAwOjM0ODI6N2ZhMDo3YzdjOjU1ZjQiLCJnZW8iOiJjYSJ9&param3=eyJ2ZXJ0aWNhbCI6InByaXZhdGVTZWFyY2giLCJ5aWQiOiJ0ZWZmIiwiY3RhZyI6Ijg1MDNfZmlkMTQ5X3RpZDMyOG5ybV9scDIzLjUuZGtfd2l0MTU3NDk5MTUxNiIsImRvbWFpbiI6Ind3dy50aGVzYWZlcnNlYXJjaC5jb20iLCJxdWVyeSI6ImNvcnBvcmF0ZSBzaWduYWdlIn0%3D&param4=eyJjIjo0OSwicSI6dHJ1ZX0%3D&ei=UTF-8&fr=yhs-iba-1

 

 

TL;DR

 

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

According to people who sail them, scows are safer and easier as it is nearly impossible to bury  the bow. Also apparently they don't slam that much when heeled.

Never sailed one but would certainly jump on the opportunity. At least never sailed an offshore one, I don't know how much you can extrapolate from a fireball, probably not much!

 

Yeah but you have to filter that thru the scowbilly attitude. A lot of people who sail scows are 1- irrational and wildly emotional about the superiority of their rides, kinda like Harley riders, and 2- not experienced with anything else.

I've sailed scows. They're a lot of fun if you don't mind the negatives that come with them, like getting wet, low reserve buoyancy, and yes they can definitely bury the bow (asymmetric spinnakers help). Older scows were a PITA to steer but that was due to style and old rule restrictions. It may also be that sailors of a prior generation did not care much about being able to steer.

FB- Doug

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On 12/13/2019 at 8:00 AM, KC375 said:

Everyone want's what they lack America has hamburgers, Harleys, Rock and Roll and I would add Hollywood

in the immortal words of the great French  Privateer Surcouf...

When a British captive officer challenged Surcouf with the words "You French fight for money while we fight for honour", Surcouf replied "Each of us fights for what he lacks most"

the question is what is America fighting for?

Hamberders? Covefe? Somehow I don't sense a lack of those, 18 years ago it was oil, maybe it will be honour again.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yeah but you have to filter that thru the scowbilly attitude. A lot of people who sail scows are 1- irrational and wildly emotional about the superiority of their rides, kinda like Harley riders, and 2- not experienced with anything else.

I've sailed scows. They're a lot of fun if you don't mind the negatives that come with them, like getting wet, low reserve buoyancy, and yes they can definitely bury the bow (asymmetric spinnakers help). Older scows were a PITA to steer but that was due to style and old rule restrictions. It may also be that sailors of a prior generation did not care much about being able to steer.

FB- Doug

I was talking of reports by people who've sailed modern scows offshore.

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

.... It may also be that sailors of a prior generation did not care much about being able to steer.

FB- Doug

Yes previous generations may have worried less about steering, like any of the MG Ts (CDF) the orientation of the helm had limited effect on the direction taken

image.png

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25 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

I was talking of reports by people who've sailed modern scows offshore.

Sorry.

Certainly the scow-bow Minis don't lack reserve bouyancy!

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sorry.

Certainly the scow-bow Minis don't lack reserve bouyancy!

FB- Doug

That's alright, no harm done!

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