Mordoc

ARC / ARC+ 2019 - Multihulls

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ARC+   Leg1: Las Palmas - Mindelo

Boat Name Design TCF Net Hours Eng Hours Finish Time UT Start Time UT
Minimole Neel 47 1.039 104,5 0,0 14.11.2019 21:15 10.11.2019 12:45
Libeccio Catana 65 1.231 118,7 0,0 15.11.2019 11:28 10.11.2019 12:45
San Neel 51 1.112 122,5 2,0 15.11.2019 15:15 10.11.2019 12:45
Pelki Lagoon 620 1.156 125,7 0,0 15.11.2019 18:25 10.11.2019 12:45
Zan Catana 50 1.076 126,1 0,0 15.11.2019 18:50 10.11.2019 12:45
Oktant Outremer 45 1.134 126,1 0,0 15.11.2019 18:53 10.11.2019 12:45
La Linea Neel 51 1.112 134,7 0,5 16.11.2019 03:24 10.11.2019 12:45
Irie Life FP Saona 47 1.041 139,2 0,1 16.11.2019 07:54 10.11.2019 12:45
Domini Catana 47 1.054 141,3 0,0 16.11.2019 10:02 10.11.2019 12:45
SeaU FP Saona 47 1.041 142,3 0,5 16.11.2019 11:02 10.11.2019 12:45
OCA Sunreef 60 1.167 145,1 6,0 16.11.2019 13:48 10.11.2019 12:45
Recipe Lagoon 560 1.076 126,6 28,0 15.11.2019 19:21 10.11.2019 12:45
Dalliance of C. Freebird 50 1.027 139,4 39,0 16.11.2019 08:08 10.11.2019 12:45
Sirena FP Helia 44 1.038 155,4 50,0 17.11.2019 00:11 10.11.2019 12:45

Never expected a Neel 47 to be that fast.  Outremer 45 plus 20% and Catana 47 plus 35%

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1. YB tracker is brilliant!
 

2. It seems that skill (or endurance, risk tolerance) is at least as important as the kind of boat you sail. 
 

3. ARC+ seems to be between Neels and Catanas. I bet the family couple sailing Catana 65 is probably more comfortable than the Neel just in front of it.
 

4. I find the main ARC more interesting. Both TS’s keeping up with the Gunboat and 5X that cost multiples of $$$ is heartening — it’s not all about $$$!

I think TS5 Hallucine has some some real sailing talent/experience on board

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No Gunboat in the ARC. That’s the APC78, stretched to 82’. Irens design, looks like a Gunboat, but aft helm. Not as quick as it should be but beautiful. 

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Good to see the APC78 perform. But to me, the big news is how the TS is punching WAY above its weight. 2nd place on the water out of all boats?!?

 

 

5014F4B9-6DD7-4B1B-ACD8-012C46D21A92.png

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Perhaps on the “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” logic, this TS 52.8 popped up: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2011/catamaran-ts-52-8-3615339/

while not a TS5 it looks very similar. Does anyone know how many were produced? Is this one different from other TS52s, which I was once told are quite a bit heavier than TS5s?

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Great to see these stats. FP is my favorite boat from an overall design perspective. Also love the Outremers - but still partial to FP.

Thanks for posting.

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It's also very cool to see what a huge difference tactics and routing can have. While we won't know what kinds of sails etc they used, comparing the routes of TS5 Hallucine and Amalia and their current (very different) positions is interesting to say the least. Amalia never went as far south as Hallucine, presumably opting for a shorter route while Hallucine went for a longer route but followed the wind. As a result Amalia has rarely seen speeds above 10 knots while Hallucine has been well into the teens most of the way across.

I'm also surprised at how "average" the speed of the production cats has been, even in a tradewind scenario like this. For sheer crossing speed it looks like you're better off spending the same money on a longer monohull. Then again, for an Atlantic crossing I guess it's possible people overload their cats with provisions, spare parts and other stuff, slowing them down significantly. Also, the people on cats may well be more comfortable and they'll certainly have more deck space to enjoy if the weather is good.

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4 hours ago, Tylo said:

For sheer crossing speed it looks like you're better off spending the same money on a longer monohull. 

Yep, most cruising cats are at hull speed, 150-180nm days. So get a 70’ mono for same $, more hull speed, more payload, never capsize, etc. 

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6 hours ago, EarthBM said:

Yep, most cruising cats are at hull speed, 150-180nm days. So get a 70’ mono for same $, more hull speed, more payload, never capsize, etc. 

Compared to the catamarans discussed, large monohulls make poor cruising boats, especially in the Caribbean. They are stuffy down below, draw a lot of water when sailing, plus require lots of crew to operate. In terms of pure ocean sailing/racing, yes, they are arguably better choices with more at-sea comfort and similar speeds.

 

 

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In terms of comfort, a cat is going to be much better under sail in most cruising conditions regardless of size...

Especially on a downwind sail in the trade winds like this where the rolling /corckscrewing would get old pretty quickly!

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Pretty sad state of affairs when a "modern" multihull is no faster than a "modern" monohull - where did we screw up?

Time to unload some of the "essentials" and get back to basics apparently.

No way in hell is a 44' mono going to hang with my twenty eight year old palatial 44' cruising cat or any 60' cruiser/racer mono stay with my 40' cruiser/racer tri.

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The problem is, most are designed as charter party boats first, that's whats been driving the market, for a very long time, then they are pushed into the cruising market.

The cats and tris that are designed to sail very well, first and foremost, will do just that.

Well, until the "new to multihulls" owner and their significant other, load them up with all the trappings of living on land. 

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Personally, I have no problem going a bit slower if it's a boat along the lines of the FPs. I'll be spending a good deal of time on our next boat and I want it to be nice and comfortable. Fast is gravy.

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Fast is Gravy and when the boat is your home it's just that - a bonus

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Its less about full on speed, and more about being very efficient in all winds. 

But I preferred to sail, and as much as possible, so my choice or priority was a cat that sailed very very well.

I had more then enough room to cruise and live-aboard.

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Hmm. Allegra had to retire, giving Hallucine (TS5) the line honors. I hope everyone is ok. The other time Allegra did the ARC they had some major issues and retired, too. 

6E82B4B1-F580-4D70-80AB-495BF1050987.png

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Right next to the finish, it looks like they either simply wanted to go to Martinique, or they gave the win to Hallucine that was skippered by Martinique’s pre-eminent sailing charter boss.

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Yes I noticed that too, I was hoping they just wanted to go to Martinique instead of St Lucia and that it wasn't an emergency.

Very cool to see Hallucine come in ahead of the VO65. Even though the VO65 was probably in "delivery mode" it still ought to be a very fast mono.

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We stopped at Barbados on the way to Bequia on our transat 'cos we were told "nobody goes back up trades" 

I wonder how well these modern downwind tacking cats would fare upwind tacking the eighty miles back to check out Barbados?

We had run mostly very deep downwind with a symmetrical chute tacked to the ama bows, no main set, all under autopilot, two handed.

That track on Allegra sure adds a lot of miles.

The beat back up to Martinique from St Lucia is a (short) ball buster so maybe that's why they reached in.

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Most of the performance gains in modern multihulls has been upwind with long daggerboards and plenty of sail. They would fare just fine.

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In 30 knots, true, a couple knots adverse current and breaking crests? OK. 

The Caribbean 600 is carefully laid out to avoid any dead beats to weather.

Long daggerboards are great upwind (my forty footer draws 10' 6") but plenty of sail is for light air performance, you can only carry what the boats righting moment permits.

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4 hours ago, boardhead said:

In 30 knots, true, a couple knots adverse current and breaking crests? OK. 

The Caribbean 600 is carefully laid out to avoid any dead beats to weather.

Long daggerboards are great upwind (my forty footer draws 10' 6") but plenty of sail is for light air performance, you can only carry what the boats righting moment permits.

Actually the beat from Saba to St Barth's can be a ball breaker!  

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6 hours ago, boardhead said:

The Caribbean 600 is carefully laid out to avoid any dead beats to weather.

There’s plenty of beating. Saba to St. Barth’s. North side of SXM. Les Saintes to SE Guadeloupe, then the real PITA, Redonda to the finish. 

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 Guy’s - OK some beating but basically a reach-er-ama with some hitches - in the warm - a fabulous course, hence the popularity - and a great place to flip a modern powered up cat!

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The Course

image.jpg

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TS5 seems to be going well, 12.5kt average over 11 days is pretty damn good. It doesn't look like a white knuckle ride either:

 

 

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Boat Name Design TCF VMG24 Delta Start Time UT Finish Time UT EngHr Total Hr Distance
Hallucine Marsaudon TS5 1,250 230,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 06.12.2019 04:49:15 0,00 280,82 2700
Elektra Marsaudon TS42 1,241 207,8 10% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 07.12.2019 11:49:00 0,00 311,82 2700
Minimole Neel 47 1,039 176,4 24% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 03.12.2019 18:00:03 0,00 292,50 2150
Libeccio Catana 65 1,231 173,6 25% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 03.12.2019 22:40:30 0,00 297,18 2150
San Neel 51 1,112 168,1 27% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 04.12.2019 08:32:35 6,00 307,04 2150
Pelki Lagoon 620 1,156 157,7 32% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 05.12.2019 04:36:47 6,00 327,11 2150
Deo Juvante Sunreef 60 1,143 157,1 32% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 16:30:20 0,00 412,51 2700
Paloma Lagoon 52 1,073 156,4 32% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 18:22:00 4,00 414,37 2700
Irie Life Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,041 155,0 33% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 05.12.2019 10:17:56 1,17 332,80 2150
2 Canoës Outremer 51 1,185 151,4 34% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 08:04:04 0,00 428,07 2700
Moana Nautitech 47 1,040 140,4 39% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 17:34:05 3,50 461,57 2700
Bijoux Fountaine Pajot Salina 48 1,035 140,1 39% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 18:39:30 2,08 462,66 2700
Living Daylights Leopard 48 1,030 139,8 39% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 19:28:55 6,50 463,48 2700
Octant Outremer 45 1,134 138,4 40% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 07.12.2019 02:14:45 0,00 372,75 2150
Seabra Lagoon 450F 0,993 138,1 40% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 01:12:48 0,00 469,21 2700
Gladan Lagoon 440 1,008 137,3 40% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 03:57:52 8,50 471,96 2700
Kilauea Nautitech Open 46 1,059 137,1 41% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 04:45:50 8,00 472,76 2700
Lamitye Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,038 136,9 41% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 05:17:22 8,00 473,29 2700
Double Vision Catana 42 0,992 133,1 42% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 19:00:00 8,00 487,00 2700
Seventeens Lagoon 450 0,993 125,7 46% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 23:34:30 0,00 515,58 2700
Sea to Sky Lagoon 42-2 0,930 123,1 47% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 16.12.2019 10:31:05 3,50 526,52 2700
              >10    
Amalia Marsaudon TS5 1,250 173,7   24.11.2019 12:00:00 10.12.2019 00:58:36 19,00 372,98 2700
Greatcircle Lagoon 52S 1,073 162,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 02:05:20 13,00 398,09 2700
Eight Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,038 153,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 01:23:01 18,60 421,38 2700
Domini Catana 47 1,054 148,5   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 00:51:42 19,25 347,36 2150
Mareas Lagoon 450 0,993 143,5   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 07:38:26 12,67 451,64 2700
SeaU Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,041 143,3   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 13:35:29 15,50 360,09 2150
Blue Tattoo Lagoon 380 S2 0,925 131,4   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 01:06:45 14,00 493,11 2700
              >20    
BioTrek Outremer 5X 1,257 195,7   24.11.2019 12:00:00 08.12.2019 07:10:00 41,40 331,17 2700
Zan Catana 50 1,076 172,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 04.12.2019 00:23:42 25,92 298,89 2150
Aurora 2 Swiss Cat 55 1,164 167,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 10.12.2019 16:05:20 25,00 388,09 2700
Zuri 3 Bali 5.4 1,046 160,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 09:01:54 23,00 405,03 2700
La Linea Neel 51 1,112 155,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 05.12.2019 09:11:18 33,00 331,69 2150
Shama Lagoon 52F 1,073 154,6   24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 23:02:17 31,00 419,04 2700
Recipe Lagoon 560 1,080 145,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 07:56:49 21,50 354,45 2150
Dalliance of Chichester Freebird 50 1,027 144,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 10:23:50 45,00 356,90 2150
Idefix Lagoon 450S 0,993 142,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 12:15:13 40,00 456,25 2700
Sirli Lagoon 52F 1,073 139,6   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 20:11:04 26,00 464,18 2700
Laura IV Nautitech 541 1,170 133,2   24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 18:28:00 35,00 486,47 2700
Hawkeye Lagoon 450 0,993 129,9   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 07:01:00 27,00 499,02 2700
Mokara Lagoon 400 S2 0,928 126,3   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 20:54:10 40,00 512,90 2700
              >50    
Hera Catana 50 1,071 149,2   24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 14:13:01 93,83 434,22 2700
BriZo Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,038 145,2   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 02:19:07 91,00 446,32 2700
Opus One Lagoon 450F 0,993 134,3   24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 14:28:55 65,00 482,48 2700
Kite Runner Lagoon 42-2 0,930 131,1   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 02:28:00 93,10 494,47 2700
Desert Eagle Leopard 46 1,039 127,9   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 14:41:29 52,00 506,69 2700
              >100    
Muttley Grainger 60 1,263 165,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 10.12.2019 20:48:46 250,00 392,81 2700
Blue Ocean Lagoon 560 1,076 146,3   24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 22:50:09 224,50 442,84 2700
View Finder Bali 4.1 0,925 136,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 05:48:07 200,00 473,80 2700
Sirena Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 1,029 134,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 07.12.2019 12:46:04 120,00 383,27 2150
Corossol Lagoon 42-2 0,930 127,9   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 14:37:27 100,00 506,62 2700

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Two TS5 in the rally. One with 280 and one with 370 hours elapsed. Makes it pretty clear, that it's not straightforward to make conclusions about a boat by looking at just one result in this kind of "race".

Paul 

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And it's a downwind sleigh ride with like 50 miles a day surface current!

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One more time I find it amazing to see that people spend a ton of money for so called "performance cats" and in the end cruising with 5.8kn (O45), 6.3kn (O51) or running the diesels for more than 40 hours (O5X) -> French marketing at its finest ...

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6 hours ago, Mordoc said:
Boat Name Design TCF VMG24 Delta Start Time UT Finish Time UT EngHr Total Hr Distance
Hallucine Marsaudon TS5 1,250 230,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 06.12.2019 04:49:15 0,00 280,82 2700
Elektra Marsaudon TS42 1,241 207,8 10% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 07.12.2019 11:49:00 0,00 311,82 2700
Minimole Neel 47 1,039 176,4 24% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 03.12.2019 18:00:03 0,00 292,50 2150
Libeccio Catana 65 1,231 173,6 25% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 03.12.2019 22:40:30 0,00 297,18 2150
San Neel 51 1,112 168,1 27% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 04.12.2019 08:32:35 6,00 307,04 2150
Pelki Lagoon 620 1,156 157,7 32% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 05.12.2019 04:36:47 6,00 327,11 2150
Deo Juvante Sunreef 60 1,143 157,1 32% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 16:30:20 0,00 412,51 2700
Paloma Lagoon 52 1,073 156,4 32% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 18:22:00 4,00 414,37 2700
Irie Life Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,041 155,0 33% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 05.12.2019 10:17:56 1,17 332,80 2150
2 Canoës Outremer 51 1,185 151,4 34% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 08:04:04 0,00 428,07 2700
Moana Nautitech 47 1,040 140,4 39% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 17:34:05 3,50 461,57 2700
Bijoux Fountaine Pajot Salina 48 1,035 140,1 39% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 18:39:30 2,08 462,66 2700
Living Daylights Leopard 48 1,030 139,8 39% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 19:28:55 6,50 463,48 2700
Octant Outremer 45 1,134 138,4 40% 21.11.2019 13:30:00 07.12.2019 02:14:45 0,00 372,75 2150
Seabra Lagoon 450F 0,993 138,1 40% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 01:12:48 0,00 469,21 2700
Gladan Lagoon 440 1,008 137,3 40% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 03:57:52 8,50 471,96 2700
Kilauea Nautitech Open 46 1,059 137,1 41% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 04:45:50 8,00 472,76 2700
Lamitye Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,038 136,9 41% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 05:17:22 8,00 473,29 2700
Double Vision Catana 42 0,992 133,1 42% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 19:00:00 8,00 487,00 2700
Seventeens Lagoon 450 0,993 125,7 46% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 23:34:30 0,00 515,58 2700
Sea to Sky Lagoon 42-2 0,930 123,1 47% 24.11.2019 12:00:00 16.12.2019 10:31:05 3,50 526,52 2700
              >10    
Amalia Marsaudon TS5 1,250 173,7   24.11.2019 12:00:00 10.12.2019 00:58:36 19,00 372,98 2700
Greatcircle Lagoon 52S 1,073 162,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 02:05:20 13,00 398,09 2700
Eight Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,038 153,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 01:23:01 18,60 421,38 2700
Domini Catana 47 1,054 148,5   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 00:51:42 19,25 347,36 2150
Mareas Lagoon 450 0,993 143,5   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 07:38:26 12,67 451,64 2700
SeaU Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,041 143,3   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 13:35:29 15,50 360,09 2150
Blue Tattoo Lagoon 380 S2 0,925 131,4   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 01:06:45 14,00 493,11 2700
              >20    
BioTrek Outremer 5X 1,257 195,7   24.11.2019 12:00:00 08.12.2019 07:10:00 41,40 331,17 2700
Zan Catana 50 1,076 172,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 04.12.2019 00:23:42 25,92 298,89 2150
Aurora 2 Swiss Cat 55 1,164 167,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 10.12.2019 16:05:20 25,00 388,09 2700
Zuri 3 Bali 5.4 1,046 160,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 09:01:54 23,00 405,03 2700
La Linea Neel 51 1,112 155,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 05.12.2019 09:11:18 33,00 331,69 2150
Shama Lagoon 52F 1,073 154,6   24.11.2019 12:00:00 11.12.2019 23:02:17 31,00 419,04 2700
Recipe Lagoon 560 1,080 145,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 07:56:49 21,50 354,45 2150
Dalliance of Chichester Freebird 50 1,027 144,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 06.12.2019 10:23:50 45,00 356,90 2150
Idefix Lagoon 450S 0,993 142,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 12:15:13 40,00 456,25 2700
Sirli Lagoon 52F 1,073 139,6   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 20:11:04 26,00 464,18 2700
Laura IV Nautitech 541 1,170 133,2   24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 18:28:00 35,00 486,47 2700
Hawkeye Lagoon 450 0,993 129,9   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 07:01:00 27,00 499,02 2700
Mokara Lagoon 400 S2 0,928 126,3   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 20:54:10 40,00 512,90 2700
              >50    
Hera Catana 50 1,071 149,2   24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 14:13:01 93,83 434,22 2700
BriZo Fountaine Pajot Saona 47 1,038 145,2   24.11.2019 12:00:00 13.12.2019 02:19:07 91,00 446,32 2700
Opus One Lagoon 450F 0,993 134,3   24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 14:28:55 65,00 482,48 2700
Kite Runner Lagoon 42-2 0,930 131,1   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 02:28:00 93,10 494,47 2700
Desert Eagle Leopard 46 1,039 127,9   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 14:41:29 52,00 506,69 2700
              >100    
Muttley Grainger 60 1,263 165,0   24.11.2019 12:00:00 10.12.2019 20:48:46 250,00 392,81 2700
Blue Ocean Lagoon 560 1,076 146,3   24.11.2019 12:00:00 12.12.2019 22:50:09 224,50 442,84 2700
View Finder Bali 4.1 0,925 136,8   24.11.2019 12:00:00 14.12.2019 05:48:07 200,00 473,80 2700
Sirena Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 1,029 134,6   21.11.2019 13:30:00 07.12.2019 12:46:04 120,00 383,27 2150
Corossol Lagoon 42-2 0,930 127,9   24.11.2019 12:00:00 15.12.2019 14:37:27 100,00 506,62 2700

 The VMG24 is a nice touch.

Why only 2700 or 2150 on the distance - I guess different start points? - Gran Canaria or Cape Verde?

Their actual track mileage wold be interesting as a guide to just how far off the Great Circle route they deviated finding the trades and getting optimum VMG. It gets old gybing and driving the surfs to make better speed when cruising.

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2 hours ago, boardhead said:

Why only 2700 or 2150 on the distance - I guess different start points? - Gran Canaria or Cape Verde?

 

Correct: ARC from Gran Canaria (2700nm) and ARC+ from Cap Verde (2150nm).

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