Stingray~

INEOS Team GB

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4 hours ago, Southern Cross said:

Does Ineos have a Adrian Newey “style” to its (hull / fuselage) form ?

Why would it?

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4 hours ago, Southern Cross said:

Does Ineos have a Adrian Newey “style” to its (hull / fuselage) form ?

Not to my eyes at least...

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5 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Why would it though? he isn’t involved in any way. 
 

I thought he is?

Also yes, its ugly & boxy -> Newey style.

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Previous cup in Bermuda for a brief period.

ugly and boxy> Adrian Newey? 
Stfu. I know you are trolling but still. 

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Look the Brits have Nick, so they will be up there with the best.

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Jason Carrington interview

 

Includes recent shots on the Solent. 

 

 

110306762_2993681630750486_7983292196760427671_o.jpg

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Western Solent. Doing some pretty good tacks and gybes apparently.

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On 7/12/2020 at 11:25 AM, The_Alchemist said:

Do these airflow simulations show that "end-plating" is a non-factor?  I don't see much airflow taking place under the boat except for the very back of the stern.  The bustles on NZ and LR are gone when you get that far back under the hull. 

On the Simulation Types slide, the streamlines trailing behind the hull look like they're rolling up into a vortex.  It looks to me like the effective span extends down to the transom.  That's significantly lower than the foot of the mainsail, so I think the hull is acting as an extension of the rig.

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On 7/16/2020 at 12:01 AM, hoom said:

ugly & boxy -> Newey style.

Oi, meet me outside in the carpark ...!

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1 hour ago, Basiliscus said:

On the Simulation Types slide, the streamlines trailing behind the hull look like they're rolling up into a vortex.  It looks to me like the effective span extends down to the transom.  That's significantly lower than the foot of the mainsail, so I think the hull is acting as an extension of the rig.

B, taking this opportunity: would greatly appreciate your take on the AC75 stabilator issue, i.e. under normal circumstances is it set to downforce (as in AC45/50 F50 cats) or to uplift - as several people are saying to explain boats accidentally leaping in the air ?

Thanks in advance

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4 hours ago, weta27 said:

Great to see some current photos, thanks

Yeah but is it? Have you actually taken a second to look at this thing? 

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8 minutes ago, RMac said:

Have you actually taken a second to look at this thing? 

What am I supposed to see??

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4 hours ago, Xlot said:

B, taking this opportunity: would greatly appreciate your take on the AC75 stabilator issue, i.e. under normal circumstances is it set to downforce (as in AC45/50 F50 cats) or to uplift - as several people are saying to explain boats accidentally leaping in the air ?

Thanks in advance

I've no idea.  It would take a VPP, at least, to calculate the balance of forces & moments.

On the AC45/50, although the leeward stabilizer lifted up and the windward one lifted down, I'm not sure what the net force was on them, either.  For sure, on the AC50 the down force on the windward stabilizer was limited by the maximum differential allowed under the Rule and Protocol.  But I wasn't closely involved enough with the VPP to know if the leeward side was actually loaded more heavily or not.

Leaping into the air is something we struggled with a lot when we were first learning to fly the AC45.  The problem is when the rig is powered up, it produces a heeling moment to leeward and it also produces a bow-down pitching moment.  If you balance the pitching moment with the foils (whichever way that ends up being for the rudder foils), and then ease the sheet because the boat is heeling - as is the trimmer's normal reaction - it brings the heeling moment under control but it also unbalances the pitching moment.  The result is the boat pitches up and flies up.  It requires a whole new set of reflexive actions by both the trimmers and the helm to fly these boats.  If you just dump the main, it's "Hi, yo Silver! Away!"

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21 minutes ago, Hawke said:

What is the AoA on the door?  Any vortex generators?  

Does it endplate?

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6 hours ago, Basiliscus said:

On the Simulation Types slide, the streamlines trailing behind the hull look like they're rolling up into a vortex.  It looks to me like the effective span extends down to the transom.  That's significantly lower than the foot of the mainsail, so I think the hull is acting as an extension of the rig.

Thank you!!!

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1 hour ago, Hawke said:

What is the AoA on the door?  Any vortex generators?  

What about UptiP doors,?

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If you count the frames per second, and measure the time it takes to open and close, will it give you an accurate speed? 

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

Does it endplate?

With the ground? Be fucking useless if it didn't.

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Is it just me or does anyone else see the resemblance to a dogs face now that the new undercarriage attachment has been added ? 

IMG_0361 (002).jpg

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4 hours ago, weta27 said:

New door being fitted to the INEOS NZ base

Can they actually get their boat through this one?

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2 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Is it just me or does anyone else see the resemblance to a dogs face now that the new undercarriage attachment has been added ? 

IMG_0361 (002).jpg

You mean Falkor?

Falkor.JPG.0670c155b065c62a04e968c96bd1f145.JPG

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5 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Yes, I mentioned that months ago, but Basiliscus has more credentials for sure.

Yes indeed, I also mentioned that years ago, in a previous life when I did a Ph.D. in fluid psychology.

You really are a special kind of cunt rat, aren't you?

 

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On 7/4/2020 at 4:35 AM, phill_nz said:

seems a strange place to have a tug buttoned on already

not to mention the 2 on standby

anything wrong with the british engineering ?

 

 

QHM rules I suspect.

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https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/4x4-pub-billionaire-vanity-project-automotive-success-549331

Quote

Ineos insists its design, carried out in conjunction with Austrian company Magna Steyr, is “engineering led” and – despite the Grenadier being widely described as a “spiritual successor” to the Defender – there is no intention to make the Grenadier look like a 4×4 already in existence.

That said, Ineos last year successfully opposed an attempt by Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) to trademark the Defender design after Ratcliffe had an approach to the Indian-owned car company to buy its tooling and machinery for the Defender marque rebuffed. The Intellectual Property Office threw out the JLR application after finding the shapes of the Defender was not distinctive compared to other 4x4s.

It is understood by iweekend that JLR has appealed against this ruling at a recent High Court hearing with a judgment expected shortly. Sources at Ineos said they remained “very confident” of their position. In a statement, JLR said it had trademarked the “unique shape” of the Defender in “many key markets” and took the protection of its intellectual property “very seriously”.

 

 

Quote

A few days after the razzmatazz of the unveiling of the Grenadier’s design, Ineos Automotive quietly announced that it was reconsidering its plans to build the 4×4 at a new factory in Bridgend, south Wales, bringing up to 500 badly-needed jobs to the area.

Instead, the company says it is now in discussions about buying an existing Mercedes Benz factory in Hambach, eastern France, which has been recently repurposed by the German giant to make a 4×4 of similar dimensions to the Grenadier but which is now surplus to requirements in a shrinking post-Covid 19 car market.

 

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

You mean Falkor?

thats the one i was looking for

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The neverending biiiitch fest, ladada ladada lada daaaah!

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Tornado-Cat. Notice the lower battern angle.  Memories from T Cat early radial sails, upper battern twist, luff curve, leach control. 

110305824_3002375643214418_6320623010051615421_o.jpg

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22 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Tornado-Cat. Notice the lower battern angle.  Memories from T Cat early radial sails, upper battern twist, luff curve, leach control. 

110305824_3002375643214418_6320623010051615421_o.jpg

Right chesirecat, I had those sails too, as on the Australis that you may have sailed too.

And you may agree with me that best Tornados I have sailed were those with the old rig + gennaker (previous to the last Olympic class). They were going as high upwind while the small gib and sail allowed to sail in more extreme conditions and with higher speed.

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On 7/20/2020 at 12:20 AM, Flippin Out said:

Is it just me or does anyone else see the resemblance to a dogs face now that the new undercarriage attachment has been added ? 

 

254018637_IMG_0361(002).thumb.jpg.cb33d1873d49ccc8ce9b2e6e050ceba9.jpg.8e6b13a4f984f350b02d8cf4083c0615.jpg

As an expert graphic designer, I too see the similarities

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The tiny nostril really ties this together...

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11 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

28 knots in 7/8 knots wind, That's going some.

Oh man if this is the fast boat we're going to have to look at it for longer c'mon...

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6 hours ago, NZK said:

The tiny nostril really ties this together...

Ben Ainslie is going to show up in my yard and kick my ass now

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38 minutes ago, buckdouger said:

Are those foils getting smaller or am I imagining things?

I don't know, but the boat's not getting any prettier.

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Well according to Sir RNJ they did 42kts without trying recently, so given that’s a publicly declared figure it’s not going terribly slowly.. 

I think Rita’s slimmed down sister might be a bit of fun. 

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Culver. Good bit of  water out there

Quote Sir  RNJ 

"We only hit a maximum of 42 knots (only!) off the east coast of the Isle of Wight in choppy conditions which the craft floated above comfortably. There was more power in the bag if required, but high speeds were not the objective this day."

 

Britannia flying over The White Cliffs of Culver.jpg

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25 minutes ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Source, video or stfu? 

actually if you need to Chuck three in quick succession your race is fucked anyway isn’t it you bell. So other than satisfying som know all kiwi bell end what purpose does it practically serve?

would you like to provide evidence of the all powerful ETNZ completing the same irrelevant series?  Nope thought not. 

 

 

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42 kts was from a scuttlebutt article by SIr RNJ who had been out for a spin, it’s relevant as it’s a first hand account from being on the boat, this is the ineos thread so utterly relevant. 
 

no one disputed other boats speed, you just ride in like some picky cunt and gobbled off with no evidence about something YOU say the boat can’t do. 
 

which big cumbersome cats? The 72s? Not foiling they couldn’t. The 50s? Not that big or cumbersome? Also not in this cup so who cares? 
A foiling kite can 360 at 20plus  kts In about 10ft of space so there is always something that can do it better/faster but like your bullshit cat example not relevant. 
 

So I ask again, Proof or stfu.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hawke said:

You really are a stuckup a hole.

Says the self confessed expert in everything, and yeah I probably am. Don’t like it? Then fuck off 

still waiting for the three tack proof,  Any danger of backing up your bullshit? 

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Truck driver? WTAF? Haha! Genuinely what are you on about? 
 

come on with the proof or were you just lying? Like your extensive expertise in politics, medical ,Sailing  tactician Etc, 

don’t  be shy Lil hawke, share the the inside info that led you to lie for attention. 
 

you don’t like the thread? Don’t read it, you don’t like reading what a respected sailor had to say after actually being out on an AC 75? Don’t read it. 

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Ask Sir RNJ? 
 

what’s the significance of you lying and providing no proof to back up your bullshit three tack chat? Plenty. Proves you are spineless when challenged to back up your words. 

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It’s an ineos thread you dumb cunt so of course it’s relevant to be posted here.

there is not a single video showing three tacks in quick succession from your kiwi overlords.

do I jump on that thread and gob off about what they can’t/can do? Nope. 

yet you chime in with no fucking context or relevance with your shit.

so please just provide proof that they can’t and let’s leave it at that ok? 
or traipse off with your lies. yes it’s embarrassing when you can’t back up your allegations but hey you will get used to it. 

 

And the down voting? Haha! 

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2 hours ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Proof? 

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2 hours ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Proof?

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2 hours ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Proof?

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2 hours ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Proof?

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2 hours ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Proof?

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2 hours ago, Hawke said:

But still struggling to throw in 3 tacks in quick succession.

Proof? 
 

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I Wasn’t  the one claiming anything was I? 
 

burden of proof lies ( rather appropriate for you) with the person making the allegation. 

you missed a few posts to down vote too, get sloppy;-) 

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Yep cats are super relevant 

if I said you touch kids The burden of proof would be on me to prove it not for you to disprove it.

You see how that works? 
 

Aledge something? You need to prove it ok? 

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On 7/17/2020 at 3:08 PM, chesirecat said:

Jason Carrington interview

 

Includes recent shots on the Solent. 

 

 

Love the story / visual of the load testing at night. Hadn't really thought about this aspect of the design and build process..

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9 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

nd the down voting? Haha! 

Maybe he is the alchy...interesting wtf is the hawk sock.

 

300px-Pseudointellectual_BS_degree.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Hawke said:

if you are going to repeat post shit at least try and make it semi-literate.

Well..you are some kinda sock puppet cuz...you didn't just wake up two weeks ago and decide you were gonna be the resident expert on everything on a long running forum.

Kapish?

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18 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Fuck off.  Who's lying?  Not I.  Go look at the videos yourself.  Ineos up to 43 knots yet?  All I asked was what was your point?  Or do you get off on posting something that someone else said with no relevance to anything.

Come on little bird... 

prove that the brits can’t tack three times in quick succession.

thats what you said they CANT do. so prove it? 

as a bonus prove it and I will delete my account? I even promise not to come back as someone’s sock. 
 

 

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10 hours ago, Hemi said:

Love the story / visual of the load testing at night. Hadn't really thought about this aspect of the design and build process..

Yes, the sounds of that carbon under 100 tones just waiting for the fractures. Reminds me of being in a sub under dim red being discovered by the surface ship asdic pinging along the hull to us. The suspense.

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There has been some info published about the time required for the foil-arm cant accumulators (was it?) to recharge, meaning there’s a delay necessary between tacks. 

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is it just me or does this Britannia not look as fugly.  It might be growing me.  Don't get me wrong, it's still fugly but not as fugly.

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5 minutes ago, dent said:

is it just me or does this Britannia not look as fugly.  It might be growing me.  Don't get me wrong, it's still fugly but not as fugly.

Have you been daydrinking? She's the last girl left at the pub, mate.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

There has been some info published about the time required for the foil-arm cant accumulators (was it?) to recharge, meaning there’s a delay necessary between tacks. 

Which means that if one team gets the advantage here they can luff to force tack or ....capsize. Could be fun in the prestart.

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19 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Which means that if one team gets the advantage here they can luff to force tack or ....capsize. Could be fun in the prestart.

Agreed, boats are vulnerable for during that time period right after using the cant. What is the duration, about 12 seconds? 

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Agreed, boats are vulnerable for during that time period right after using the cant. What is the duration, about 12 seconds? 

No more vulnerable than the AC50's. They had to grind enough pressure into the accumulators between maneuvers. IIRC the grinders aren't responsible for the hyrdo on the FCS this time, so it's just a battery-powered pump that has that job now, which might make it seem more like a penalty.

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13 minutes ago, atwinda said:

No more vulnerable than the AC50's. They had to grind enough pressure into the accumulators between maneuvers. IIRC the grinders aren't responsible for the hyrdo on the FCS this time, so it's just a battery-powered pump that has that job now, which might make it seem more like a penalty.

Agreed. Although on the AC50’s the same accumulators could be used for a variety of functions.  Similar to on the AC72’s, remember the time ETNZ almost lost it when they jibed but had run too far low? 
 

On the AC75 there are, as you say, FCS-dedicated battery-powered ones, supplied. 
 

There was an early-days ETNZ video where someone developing and testing the FCS spoke about the time it took the battery to recharge the hydro, think it was around 12 seconds or so. 

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1 hour ago, dent said:

is it just me or does this Britannia not look as fugly.  It might be growing me.  Don't get me wrong, it's still fugly but not as fugly.

It’s just you. 

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44 minutes ago, atwinda said:

No more vulnerable than the AC50's.

The AC50s are cats, which means stable when still, worse being to stay like sitting ducks, AC75s will capsize as we already saw with the kiwi boat.

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Breaking news Sir William Robert Patrick Knox-Johnston CBE  has been named as back up helmsman for the Frackers:P

E21FDC19-A8D1-44EE-90DB-D6B03148C45E.jpeg.3dbfeec03faecc7fe2e835329189204f.jpeg

 

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3 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

 

@hawke, hey baby bird is this relevant enough for you? 
 

not feeling like fronting up with your proof yet? Or you forgotten which sock you are jerking off  with today? 
 

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39 minutes ago, Hawke said:

In the pre-start the boats will spend more time not flying so that could be where hull shape plays a part would it not?

Like they didn’t in Bermuda? Or San Fran? 

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39 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The AC50s are cats, which means stable when still, worse being to stay like sitting ducks, AC75s will capsize as we already saw with the kiwi boat.

I agree that statically a catamaran is more stable when sitting still. However, I14's and other similar skiffs will also just tip over at the dock like the AC75... both skiffs and similar size cats will all capsize on the water, so I don't see why you and others continuously bitch about the stability factor of the AC75s. By that logic, we should stop sailing any vessel that can flip over because they are too dangerous. Why not just take a break from all that and enjoy the damn show.

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46 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Suggest you and Spew Fist start up your own thread about knot racing and you can discuss if Ineos has reached 44 knots yet.

The rest of us will focus on where the real performance gains could be made.  Remember Bermuda!

Not sure you would know what 44kts would feel like little bird, what’s your rented daysailer do? 8kts? 12 maybe? 

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So you don’t then. Fair enough. See telling the truth is easy now just pony up with your evidence condemning Ineos  and I will be gone forever. 
 

surely that’s worth it baby bird? 

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1 hour ago, Hawke said:

In the pre-start the boats will spend more time not flying so that could be where hull shape plays a part would it not?

The losing team maybe.

 

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12 minutes ago, Hawke said:

So you are suggesting that the boats will have a set number of manoeuvres they are capable of during the two minutes pre-start and that this number will be similar for all boats?  From the limited amount of video available of Ineos - ETNZ looks like is sails closer to the water.  Logically to me that would seem an advantage. 

He said nothing about a set number of manoeuvres, you did. What’s the relevance please? 

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10 minutes ago, Hawke said:

So you are suggesting that the boats will have a set number of manoeuvres they are capable of during the two minutes pre-start and that this number will be similar for all boats?  From the limited amount of video available of Ineos - ETNZ looks like is sails closer to the water.  Logically to me that would seem an advantage. 

Logic has no place in the modern AC.

The rest of your comments are fair. 

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Massive gap.. 

but hey it’s only on video. probably all cgi, sped up and fake but it’s all there is to go on.

 

also best look at the new foils that have been in since the got back 

 

E09A0A02-65A6-4DB6-9FAE-9CF0FD039BC6.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Massive gap.. 

but hey it’s only on video. probably all cgi, sped up and fake but it’s all there is to go on.

 

also best look at the new foils that have been in since the got back 

 

E09A0A02-65A6-4DB6-9FAE-9CF0FD039BC6.jpeg

Thats off Culver is it? 

Apparently they were looking slick during maneuvers

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On 7/23/2020 at 11:44 PM, JALhazmat said:

42 kts was from a scuttlebutt article by SIr RNJ who had been out for a spin, it’s relevant as it’s a first hand account from being on the boat, this is the ineos thread so utterly relevant. 

 

Suppose  you mean Robin Knox-Johnston.  V&P commented in a video, main point how hairy the ride was. My take is the observer’s place onboard the AC75 better remain unoccupied. Bertelli won’t be happy

 

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Yup utterly cocked up on the RKJ bit.. twat :unsure: my fault

 

hey baby bird, so stoked they did 50 out the box, were they on tow? , if only your Excellent source Fancied actually putting it in print or commit it to video evidence.

call me a sceptic but  taking your word for it doesn't really cut it? 
also whats with the 44kt thing? You referenced it nearly every post now,  still it makes a change from pounding that down vote button. 

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Why for my sake? 
it’s cute you are concerned but I am slightly worried you feel that strongly About it.

it wasnt MY 42 kts, it’s the figure quoted by Sir RKJ in the video so maybe message him with your concerns? 
 

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