Stingray~

INEOS Team GB

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20 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Here's another way of looking at it:  

That's a bit less than one day afloat viewing here. And it's before air fares, hotels, and the mandatory 14 days quarantine.  Assuming that is that we even let you enter the country.

On the plus side you'll see more, close up. There will be expert commentary scattered amongst the blather. And you'll have your choice of free drinks.

I get that. Though actually being out on the water is a much more immersive experience, and there's actually a cost to taking a person out on the water. And it doesn't start until late evening. And I am just not in the habit of spending this much on home entertainment content. I am considering it, though.

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2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

In that interview with Freddie Carr, when asked about putting on a new set of foils, he was really evasive, because according to my count, they've used up their allocation. As for Tony Dextor. I checked his FB page, and he's part of "Stop the steal" enough said!

Anyone who dresses their dog like this fails to demand any respect. 
 

In fact, anyone who dresses their dog at all...

084838C7-540D-449A-B302-49228190290C.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, zenmasterfred said:

I bucked 2 and Timbuk 3.  Love this group.

The way I heard it, was I bucked one, and Tim bucked two, so plus one to you.

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5 hours ago, Tbird333 said:

Anyone have any decent photos of INEOS’ main from behind showing gap between skins and chord depth of lower main?

A very pointed question Tbird, expecting changes?

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7 hours ago, dullers said:

Ok. I suspect all the boats are getting modded all the time. Maybe its true in a sort of it applies to all 4 teams.

I thought the frackers were just replacingthe main halyard?

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7 hours ago, Tbird333 said:

Anyone have any decent photos of INEOS’ main from behind showing gap between skins and chord depth of lower main?

Quite a narrow gap (click for full size)

INEOS-leech.jpg

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18 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Too flat in the foot?

Compared to what we see from ETNZ, it doesn't look like they're doing enough in the adjustable lower section. Could be what they're working on?

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6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

. As for Tony Dextor. I checked his FB page, and he's part of "Stop the steal" enough said!

Oh ya..always good to research source...classic :D

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58 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Compared to what we see from ETNZ, it doesn't look like they're doing enough in the adjustable lower section. Could be what they're working on?

Could Also be a case of not having a clue what point of sail they are on what they’re trying to do and comparing with another still photo of the kiwi boat  where we don’t know what they were doing or the point of sail they were on either 

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9 hours ago, Nutta said:

Nah, my cat reckons that ETNZ's development program is done. Stick a fork in it and call it cooked. They don't plan on any further improvements until AC37.

If your Dog had said it I would not believe it as Dogs always try to please but your cat on the other hand only pleases itself. So your cat may have a point. The only thing is who else thinks they own your cat?  My cat who is English said the INEOS simulator is as slow as our B2.  

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9 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Pos not the RLYC

What about the Fudge shop on the Town Quay?  Lots of people with Beneteaus more on the quay.

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2 hours ago, FinnFish said:

I thought the frackers were just replacingthe main halyard?

We dont know what they did, my guess is that they dont want to give Team Middle East the practice. The others have plenty of opportunity to race each other coming up. If you note they all have main halyard problems now.

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15 minutes ago, dullers said:

We dont know what they did, my guess is that they dont want to give Team Middle East the practice. The others have plenty of opportunity to race each other coming up. If you note they all have main halyard problems now.

They've run of Windex treatments that's for sure. Maybe they's resurrect and modify B1?

 

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16 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

They've run of Windex treatments that's for sure. Maybe they's resurrect and modify B1?

 

Maybe they will join B1 and B2 together or add an engine, maybe maybe etc........

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On 12/12/2020 at 1:42 AM, accnick said:

King's Head for me

Kings Head is to busy but is a great pub. Red Lion at Boldre is better for clandestine meetings.

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2 minutes ago, dullers said:

Kings Head is to busy but is a great pub. Red Lion at Boldre is better for clandestine meetings.

That’s too far out of town to drive the range back after a couple of bottles of red.. 

the chequers and the yacht haven are safer bets for that. 
monkey house works too, close enough to drive back home while hammered but not in full view of the twateratti

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30 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

That’s too far out of town to drive the range back after a couple of bottles of red.. 

the chequers and the yacht haven are safer bets for that. 
monkey house works too, close enough to drive back home while hammered but not in full view of the twateratti

Never been in The Monkey House.  Any good and would it be a good place to speak bull shit about the Americas Cup that would then be picked up by the New Zealand Herald local Lymington journo?  We could meet up, talk BS about INEOS and how slow the simulator is and then watch Four Skin and Whine fodder pick it up a couple of days later in Anarchy?

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6 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Anyone who dresses their dog like this fails to demand any respect. 
 

In fact, anyone who dresses their dog at all...

084838C7-540D-449A-B302-49228190290C.jpeg

Is lipstick ok?

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1 hour ago, dullers said:

Never been in The Monkey House.  Any good and would it be a good place to speak bull shit about the Americas Cup that would then be picked up by the New Zealand Herald local Lymington journo?  We could meet up, talk BS about INEOS and how slow the simulator is and then watch Four Skin and Whine fodder pick it up a couple of days later in Anarchy?

Doubtful, not remotely enough red trouser on show for old Magnus to be snooping around. 

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16 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Doubtful, not remotely enough red trouser on show for old Magnus to be snooping around. 

I knew my trousers would let me down one day.

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7 hours ago, terrafirma said:

He's back..!  His latest FB post..

We, (Ineos UK), are the only team in AC36 who have actually never lost the America’s Cup.

What a dork.

How does the saying go? "Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all".

 

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11 hours ago, nav said:

A very pointed question Tbird, expecting changes?

I’d like to compare with the semi recent aerials of ETNZ and LR

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9 hours ago, weta27 said:

Quite a narrow gap (click for full size)

INEOS-leech.jpg

Thanks for posting, I bet they fatten the gap as they continue developing

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2 minutes ago, Tbird333 said:

Thanks for posting, I bet they fatten the gap as they continue developing

Although honestly I think it’s more about chord thickness, not necessarily leech gap

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9 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Too flat in the foot?

Opens the midleach in conjunction with mast twist and bend - plus other stuff

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

What a dork.

How does the saying go? "Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all".

 

My 4 year old has never lost the America's Cup either and she hasn't spent $120 Million plus not doing it.

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19 hours ago, Priscilla said:

S+S have gone with no end plating for both the main and headsail instead reaching to a high cut wardrobe and perfected the sole immersed foil to windward manoeuvre all in all quite a tricky effort. 

803905453_ac-75-stars-stripes-usa-custom-model-(2).thumb.jpg.290a7121ab9b61139b0462f8bb46b355.jpg.f2f1ad5ebfee693fc7244bde1165dfff.jpg

ac-75-stars-stripes-usa-custom-model-.thumb.jpg.5b2f85322d81b08d5cb305907f9d8f8b.jpg.56115ac56a449384970bcc9264370ab1.jpg

 

 

Sure, but you’ve just got to admire the cut of Canfield’s jib. 

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3 hours ago, Tbird333 said:

Thanks for posting, I bet they fatten the gap as they continue developing

I bet they change it depending on the point of sail, wind strength, at full speed or speeding up / slowing down 

as that’s kinda the point. 

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21 hours ago, Priscilla said:

S+S have gone with no end plating for both the main and headsail instead reaching to a high cut wardrobe and perfected the sole immersed foil to windward manoeuvre all in all quite a tricky effort. 

803905453_ac-75-stars-stripes-usa-custom-model-(2).thumb.jpg.290a7121ab9b61139b0462f8bb46b355.jpg.f2f1ad5ebfee693fc7244bde1165dfff.jpg

ac-75-stars-stripes-usa-custom-model-.thumb.jpg.5b2f85322d81b08d5cb305907f9d8f8b.jpg.56115ac56a449384970bcc9264370ab1.jpg

 

 

If that's what they received in the design package, now I understand why they did not want to pay ETNZ for their service. 

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2 hours ago, Varan said:

If that's what they received in the design package, now I understand why they did not want to pay ETNZ for their service. 

The design package was the same as Te Aihe apparently.

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22 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

America's Cup: Dan Carter helps struggling Brits deal with pressure

07:59, Dec 14 2020

America's Cup: Dan Carter helps struggling Brits deal with pressure

 

10-05-19-1607885966380.jpg

Written like a 12-year-old, mind you I take my words back, even a 12-year-old could sus out what was really happening.

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18 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

I bet they change it depending on the point of sail, wind strength, at full speed or speeding up / slowing down 

as that’s kinda the point. 

Yeah clearly I was asserting that they would never change it, thanks for pointing that out

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Interesting, from https://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/articles/331_Measuring-speed-through-water-with-Nortek.html

 

Integrating a cutting-edge acoustic speed log  

The solution was to mount a tailor-made Doppler speed log from Nortek inside the bulbs of each of Britannia’s T-shaped foils, with a flooded chamber sealing the space and forming a smooth interface with the external face of the bulb. This provides very accurate speed through water measurements without affecting performance.

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I'm going to take a wild guess that one of the "top secret not copy-able F1 additions" Dexter is referring to is some sort of aero/hydro addition to the bustle, which explains why it is so squared off. I'm likely totally wrong but cant think of too many things you could just slap on a finished boat that would make a big difference and send the Kiwis crying, as he says they will.

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More likely to be foils, rudder, or some change to mainsail arrangement IMO. Assuming that he has anything more than hot air of course.

Though I'm sure there are improvements, but whether they will make kiwis cry is another matter. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Integrating a cutting-edge acoustic speed log  

Interesting tech, but it doesn't actually make you go any faster though does it?

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Interesting tech, but it doesn't actually make you go any faster though does it?

Would be a bit silly to post any tech that makes them go faster on their website wouldn't it.

 

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29 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

I'm going to take a wild guess that one of the "top secret not copy-able F1 additions" Dexter is referring to is some sort of aero/hydro addition to the bustle, which explains why it is so squared off. I'm likely totally wrong but cant think of too many things you could just slap on a finished boat that would make a big difference and send the Kiwis crying, as he says they will.

Do you think that's why they kept their boat in the water yesterday? So no one could see it?

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Just now, enigmatically2 said:

Would be a bit silly to post any tech that makes them go faster on their website wouldn't it.

Sure..... Seems they're preparing for a flood of biblical proportions they're doing so much sand bagging.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Interesting, from https://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/articles/331_Measuring-speed-through-water-with-Nortek.html

 

Integrating a cutting-edge acoustic speed log  

The solution was to mount a tailor-made Doppler speed log from Nortek inside the bulbs of each of Britannia’s T-shaped foils, with a flooded chamber sealing the space and forming a smooth interface with the external face of the bulb. This provides very accurate speed through water measurements without affecting performance.

A few interesting screen grabs from the video.Ineos.thumb.jpg.9a596b29b50cc19c84719fbbdce1de7e.jpg

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Interesting, from https://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/articles/331_Measuring-speed-through-water-with-Nortek.html

 

Integrating a cutting-edge acoustic speed log  

The solution was to mount a tailor-made Doppler speed log from Nortek inside the bulbs of each of Britannia’s T-shaped foils, with a flooded chamber sealing the space and forming a smooth interface with the external face of the bulb. This provides very accurate speed through water measurements without affecting performance.

Nothing new here, the Nortek sensor was used on Puma in the 2011/12 Volvo.  It was a great solution for boat speed and measured leeway very accurately, which is pretty critical on these boats.  It did need a lot of maintaining for an ocean race project, but for a cup campaign its a great solution.

http://www.nortekmed.com/fr/les-nouvelles/nortek-teams-with-puma 

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11 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Sure..... Seems they're preparing for a flood of biblical proportions they're doing so much sand bagging.

They do seem to be going to great lengths to not show their performance, I'd agree with that. Adds some mystery to it (I appreciate it doesn't add any mystery who know that GB is a dog and have known that NZ would be the fastest boat since before the boats were designed)

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INEOS seem to be a perfect example of confirmation bias, what they are currently doing either proves they are a dog, or a hidden rocketship, depending on what the observer wants to see. 

 

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12 minutes ago, kenergy said:

INEOS seem to be a perfect example of confirmation bias, what they are currently doing either proves they are a dog, or a hidden rocketship, depending on what the observer wants to see. 

Yep and according to some wishful thinkers we are going to see stage one retro rockets attached when they line up on Thursday.  ETNZ don't need to sandbag when all the other teams (except LR) are doing it for them.

Who is the main trimmer on INEOS?  Whoever it is doesn't seem to have had much input into the main setup and control systems.  It looks like it is designed by a plane engineer who works with two static surfaces.

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14 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

 

Who is the main trimmer on INEOS?  Whoever it is doesn't seem to have had much input into the main setup and control systems.  It looks like it is designed by a plane engineer who works with two static surfaces.

Well we know where your confirmation bias is, but what is your evidence for that one?

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Do you think that's why they kept their boat in the water yesterday? So no one could see it?

:Dthat's a very cunning plan: tow it out there foiling, then hiding it when they get there.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yep and according to some wishful thinkers we are going to see stage one retro rockets attached when they line up on Thursday.  ETNZ don't need to sandbag when all the other teams (except LR) are doing it for them.

Who is the main trimmer on INEOS?  Whoever it is doesn't seem to have had much input into the main setup and control systems.  It looks like it is designed by a plane engineer who works with two static surfaces.

But, but, but they have Formula 1 R&D input...

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17 hours ago, fish7yu said:

America's Cup: Dan Carter helps struggling Brits deal with pressure

07:59, Dec 14 2020

America's Cup: Dan Carter helps struggling Brits deal with pressure

 

10-05-19-1607885966380.jpg

Or how about a Brit centric headline. "Generous Brits help ex lonely All Black."

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On 12/13/2020 at 6:52 PM, jaysper said:

My 4 year old has never lost the America's Cup either and she hasn't spent $120 Million plus not doing it.

Yes but how many millions has she spent on it?

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2 hours ago, buckdouger said:

A few interesting screen grabs from the video.Ineos.thumb.jpg.9a596b29b50cc19c84719fbbdce1de7e.jpg

How do those yellow arrows they have added make INEOS go faster?

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14 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

 

1BC30BBB-829D-4F07-8B0A-D7DABD65E628.jpeg

Is that car not a Prada type one?

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3 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Interesting tech, but it doesn't actually make you go any faster though does it?

The point is it doesn't make them any slower I thought.

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37 minutes ago, dullers said:

Or how about a Brit centric headline. "Generous Brits help ex lonely All Black."

If he is ex lonely...that would mean he is no longer lonely.

Just thought I would point that out :rolleyes:

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Can’t put my finger on exactly why but if I had to put 5 bucks down today on the best Chall team come the PC then I’d actually choose Ineos. It’s a helluva team overall and that hull looks awesome. 

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Can’t put my finger on exactly why but if I had to put 5 bucks down today on the best Chall team come the PC then I’d actually choose Ineos. It’s a helluva team overall and that hull looks awesome. 

Whether you win or lose this bet Stingray, I reckon any team that develops a smug view that they're comfortably ahead is screwed.    

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23 minutes ago, uflux said:

If he is ex lonely...that would mean he is no longer lonely.

Just thought I would point that out :rolleyes:

He is no longer lonely. He is with the Brit team who are in disarray.  Team UK are defending to narrow if you look at that photo.

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18 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Can’t put my finger on exactly why but if I had to put 5 bucks down today on the best Chall team come the PC then I’d actually choose Ineos. It’s a helluva team overall and that hull looks awesome. 

Yes the hull is quite something. Been looking at rigs and their B1 started looking quite good re mast bend &twist v leach and their depowering ability thru gusts. It would be quite difficult to do with that rig configuration. ETNZ's B1 started showing similar characteristics towards the end of its shelf life and their B2 is now on to it especially when seeing against AM on the first practice day. . I had a gander at Ineos when they once were sailing back to base and was impressed. Some great little touches.

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She can be fast at moments when I have seen her especially downwind. I just don't see them stringing together enough of those moments. I smell a good old fashion British sporting disaster

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12 minutes ago, uflux said:

She can be fast at moments when I have seen her especially downwind. I just don't see them stringing together enough of those moments. I smell a good old fashion British sporting disaster

They have enormous resources with old-hand Simmer ‘at the helm’ and a boat that looks scarily purpose-built, they could have a big plan scheduled for not necessarily the PC round robins, but for the knockouts.. 

For sure the other Challs would have similar timelines but experience with how to max your resources  best could matter and BA and others at Ineos have stressed the point starting since a long time ago, moreso than others have made that point. 

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

They have enormous resources with old-hand Simmer ‘at the helm’ and a boat that looks scarily purpose-built, they could have a big plan scheduled for not necessarily the PC round robins, but for the knockouts.. 

For sure the other Challs would have similar timelines but experience with how to max your resources  best could matter and BA and others at Ineos have stressed the point starting since a long time ago, moreso than others have made that point. 

Occum’s razor no more complicated than that.

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11 minutes ago, uflux said:

Occum’s razor no more complicated than that.

One of the most quoted and least understood scientific maxims. Not sure that it supports your view on this case. It would be a twist make a case either way as far as I can see

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Just now, enigmatically2 said:

One of the most quoted and least understood scientific maxims. Not sure that it supports your view on this case. It would be a twist make a case either way as far as I can see

Um yes the essence of the term... The evidence is right in front of you. 

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Just now, uflux said:

Um yes the essence of the term... The evidence is right in front of you. 

But there is also evidence that at times they are fast. And also evidence that they can at times do dry turns.

So we could assume that they are sandbagging, or we could assume that they can go fast and do dry turns in some undefined conditions but not in others. Those conditions would have to be assumed because we have evidence from Weta that they were quick in light areas when they didn't have the C0 up, and evidence that they were quick in medium heavy on other occasions. And there is evidence that they can do dry turns.

So its at least one assumption that they are slow, and only one that they are sandbagging.

Lots of evidence there

 

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16 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

But there is also evidence that at times they are fast. And also evidence that they can at times do dry turns.

So we could assume that they are sandbagging, or we could assume that they can go fast and do dry turns in some undefined conditions but not in others. Those conditions would have to be assumed because we have evidence from Weta that they were quick in light areas when they didn't have the C0 up, and evidence that they were quick in medium heavy on other occasions. And there is evidence that they can do dry turns.

So its at least one assumption that they are slow, and only one that they are sandbagging.

Lots of evidence there

 

America's Cup.  Don't you just love it. Not one race in and everything in the air. 

Is BA in the process of pulling off one of the greatest subterfuges ever played, or is his boat just slow? 

I guess we might find out on Thursday,  or we might not.

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4 minutes ago, JJD said:

Skeg keel extended? Im sure that'll help.

 

Photo Credit- Richard Turner Facebook  -

image.png.9db53888b8173eb472ffb790c5c144b4.png

On second thoughts, and looking at older photos back up thread it seems to be the same. FALSE ALARM :)

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8 minutes ago, JJD said:

On second thoughts, and looking at older photos back up thread it seems to be the same. FALSE ALARM :)

Yep, looks the same, still stops short of the rudder maybe for weight-saving reasons? All good. 

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20 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

 

Is this before or after the non race with Team Middle East?

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Just now, JALhazmat said:

Poof there that Ineos  can’t tack or foil as previously suggested ..

I was wondering if this is before the INEOS non race and were the wind speeds declining of increasing through the day?

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

But there is also evidence that at times they are fast. And also evidence that they can at times do dry turns.

So we could assume that they are sandbagging, or we could assume that they can go fast and do dry turns in some undefined conditions but not in others. Those conditions would have to be assumed because we have evidence from Weta that they were quick in light areas when they didn't have the C0 up, and evidence that they were quick in medium heavy on other occasions. And there is evidence that they can do dry turns.

So its at least one assumption that they are slow, and only one that they are sandbagging.

Lots of evidence there

 

There was lots of evidence that Oracle were fast last time too. There was even more evidence that Artemis were faster than Oracle, but that didn’t win them anything. Its not about being fast. They’re all fast. It’s about being the fastest. Right now, there is NO evidence of that.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

There was lots of evidence that Oracle were fast last time too. There was even more evidence that Artemis were faster than Oracle, but it’s not about being fast. They’re all fast. It’s about being the fastest. Right now, there is NO evidence of that.

Of all the boats INEOS is the one we know least about. (Well the Kiwis know more than us, that is a given.)

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53 minutes ago, dullers said:

Of all the boats INEOS is the one we know least about. (Well the Kiwis know more than us, that is a given.)

Will the frackers need to be towed into the start box?

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13 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

Will the frackers need to be towed into the start box?

If you are one of the Kiwi people in the know will you tell me?

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