Stars and Stripes Team USA is gone

[accnick 211]

37 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Anybody remember these?

 

Ken_Done_Americas_Cup_Watercolor_19x28.webp

I don't remember that particular watercolor, but I do remember there being at least five US challengers in 1987. It was crowded in that little yacht harbor in Fremantle. The Kiwi debut was pretty impressive. Ironically, those two Kiwi boats are still stars on the modern 12mR circuit, while many of the others are rotting away. There is something to be said for a fiberglass 12mR built to Lloyds.

[Priscilla 2,093]

170 12m built

More than 100 still exist.

https://12mrclass.com/12mr-database/

http://www.12mr.de/Twelves/

[Priscilla 2,093]

At least they got the keel kind of right.

[Priscilla 2,093]

[rh3000 1,483]

52 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

 

"Someday we'll both be infamous for feline-themed remarks"

[WetHog 492]

This thread should be turned into a tribute to the real Stars and Stripes.  All the boats were cool looking.  Even the one that sunk off California looked cool with all but the mast underwater.  

WetHog  

[Priscilla 2,093]

[Priscilla 2,093]

[Priscilla 2,093]

[toad 610]

11 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Bedtime for Bonzo?

[Priscilla 2,093]

Crikey this is not good news.

The Pentagon wants to slash funding to Stars and Stripes.

[Salty Seacock 319]

@Priscilla Where else have we seen this photo. I recall seeing it a long time ago but, have forgotten where.

[minimumfuss 105]

On 2/6/2020 at 8:46 PM, Priscilla said:

Sorted leeward foil is now in the correct position .

Sail trim in need of attention but Dennis points out that all in all for a new build she is proving to be like wicked fast.

Found this in mint condition signed by DC himself for 8 bucks last week, fresh from 1988. 

[Priscilla 2,093]

Bit of cross country Cup action.

[JJD 69]

Hypothetical Q. 

If both Cagliari and Portsmouth ACWS Events were cancelled, say due to Corona Virus, S+S would have until the Auckland event to launch and get up to speed??

[Monkey 1,206]

3 hours ago, JJD said:

Hypothetical Q. 

If both Cagliari and Portsmouth ACWS Events were cancelled, say due to Corona Virus, S+S would have until the Auckland event to launch and get up to speed??

Oh great. Now the Kiwi conspiracy nuts are going to think they’ve resorted to biological warfare to win the cup!  

[RMac 295]

1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Oh great. Now the Kiwi conspiracy nuts are going to think they’ve resorted to biological warfare to win the cup!  

"It's fucking obvious!  Follow the spread of C Novel 19 and correlate it to the bulk carrier Ponidae who is rumored to be carrying crucial ETNZ laptops, and to make matters worse, they used the same version of morse code that Oracle did on their foil lifting arms when they started cheating in the finals!"

[Priscilla 2,093]

[NeedAClew 1,065]

Maybe the S+S Team (if there is one), having gone nowhere, can get AM B1 shipped to Auckland and challenge in that, while the AM, LR, Ineos teams are all stuck in quarantine in Europe somewhere. 

[Swimsailor 1,244]

I've had these since '87.  Some of my favorite memories as a kid are watching ESPN in the middle of the night with my dad.  Hanging on my office wall now...

[NeedAClew 1,065]

So now they are the "quiet team" progressing with fundraising and a lot of a boat built. 

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/04/14/americas-cup-the-quiet-fifth-team/

Shit, COVID19 is being good to them, what a sick thing that thought occurs to me.  But if everything is delayed a year or more, they might make it to Auckland?!? 

[accnick 211]

1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

So now they are the "quiet team" progressing with fundraising and a lot of a boat built. 

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/04/14/americas-cup-the-quiet-fifth-team/

Shit, COVID19 is being good to them, what a sick thing that thought occurs to me.  But if everything is delayed a year or more, they might make it to Auckland?!? 

All they need to do is raise a whole bunch of money....

[Priscilla 2,093]

The quiet fifth team

Should of been headed the Quiet Americans the never ending sequel to Graham Greene’s case study of American exceptionalism with Canfield channeling Pyle.

[accnick 211]

1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

The quiet fifth team

Should of been headed the Quiet Americans the never ending sequel to Graham Greene’s case study of American exceptionalism with Canfield channeling Pyle.

Now there's an obtuse reference that will go over most heads, no matter where you're from. Maybe AM is the better example of the theme. It certainly drove the defense of the Cup for 130+ years. But who at AM is Alden Pyle? Even that name reeks of New England mustiness, not California sunshine. The closest I can think of is anyone named DeVos. Or Prince.

[Priscilla 2,093]

1 hour ago, accnick said:

Now there's an obtuse reference that will go over most heads, no matter where you're from. Maybe AM is the better example of the theme. It certainly drove the defense of the Cup for 130+ years. But who at AM is Alden Pyle? Even that name reeks of New England mustiness, not California sunshine. The closest I can think of is anyone named DeVos. Or Prince.

Hah maybe I should have stopped at The Quiet Americans.

Canfeild spouting the message or party line without reading the writing on the wall.

Still wonders never cease as it worked for Lazarus.

[jackolantern 442]

At what point does their fundraising become fraudulent if they know they will functionally not have the ability to compete or even participate?

[Peacefrog 25]

I was just doing a drive by in the Classifieds on here and came upon this little gem  

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/ac75-for-sale/

[basketcase 367]

On 4/15/2020 at 2:33 PM, jackolantern said:

At what point does their fundraising become fraudulent if they know they will functionally not have the ability to compete or even participate?

im not sure, were you here for the sa effort a few years back?

[smackdaddy 295]

1 hour ago, basketcase said:

im not sure, were you here for the sa effort a few years back?

Heh. Nice.

Was there even any accounting of that money?

[Stingray~ 1,237]

4 hours ago, Peacefrog said:

I was just doing a drive by in the Classifieds on here and came upon this little gem  

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/ac75-for-sale/

That is for real, right?

Sure looks like it, the hull if not necessarily the sale.

[Stingray~ 1,237]

2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Heh. Nice.

Was there even any accounting of that money?

Scott refunded contributions from anyone who asked for it. 

[smackdaddy 295]

15 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Scott refunded contributions from anyone who asked for it. 

That's good to know. How close did we get to the $100M?

[Rennmaus 2,070]

"We"? 

[Stingray~ 1,237]

15 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

"We"? 

How much did we raise, do you remember? A few thou at least? 
 

Sure was a lot of fun!

 

 

[Rennmaus 2,070]

4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

How much did we raise, do you remember? A few thou at least? 
 

Sure was a lot of fun!

 

 

Can't remember, if I ever knew. But the entry fee was paid in time. And then came BMW/Oracle... Yes, it was fun and forged friendships for life.

[Stingray~ 1,237]

4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Can't remember, if I ever knew. But the entry fee was paid in time. And then came BMW/Oracle... Yes, it was fun and forged friendships for life.

MAGUAH IS COMING!!!

   

[Stingray~ 1,237]

I’m hearing (the tweeting into my inner ear, from my imaginary birdie) that the reason S+S cut the boat in half was for a clever cause:

Easy & Fast transport by air to the S+S pad in Auckland! 

[Stingray~ 1,237]

That, or so they could just get it outside that shop more easily? 

[ttc546 36]

25 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

MAGUAH IS COMING!!!

   

Whatever happened to Maguah? He was gonna sue everybody in sight - and then some? 

[smackdaddy 295]

1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

"We"? 

Sure. I was here rolling my eyes, making fun of it...and accurately predicting the outcome....like I always do.

[Stingray~ 1,237]

8 minutes ago, ttc546 said:

Whatever happened to Maguah? He was gonna sue everybody in sight - and then some? 

I’m sure he’s moved on to suing NASA and other bigger things by now!

Met the guy once, at Long Beach Yacht Club, what a trip  

[Stingray~ 1,237]

48 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, it was fun and forged friendships for life.

Bingo!

Good times included that night in Valencia during AC33 at a restaurant with a crowded table of Anarchists, and Ben  A at the table behind us  

[Rennmaus 2,070]

^^^ So it is no "we" for you, as I thought.

[smackdaddy 295]

7 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

^^^ So it is no "we" for you, as I thought.

I sure as hell wasn't going to throw money into that ridiculous cauldron. And we saw how it turned out.

Anyway, I don't pay for "friends". Heh.

Relax a little Ren. You're wound way too tight.

[Stingray~ 1,237]

3 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Relax a little Ren. You're wound way too tight.

Ren rocks! 

[Rennmaus 2,070]

^^ Maybe you should get help, because you seem to have experience and know that friends can be bought. I did not know that, so I almost start to feel sorry for you, although in a very relaxed way. It's a bit delusional of you to think you can wind me up, but please try again. A bit of amusement is welcome during these lock-down times.

^ Thanks @Stingray~, my non-bought friend .

[Lickindip 485]

1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

I’m hearing (the tweeting into my inner ear, from my imaginary birdie) that the reason S+S cut the boat in half was for a clever cause:

Easy & Fast transport by air to the S+S pad in Auckland! 

hull or plug for mold?

[Stingray~ 1,237]

14 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

hull or plug for mold?

Great question, who can tell?

[accnick 211]

13 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

hull or plug for mold?

I'd say plug. Structurally,  you would be unlikely to build a hull in two longitudinal pieces like that. If you had cut it in half to move outside for a dumpster, you wouldn't bother to shrink wrap it.

[Lickindip 485]

2 minutes ago, accnick said:

I'd say plug. Structurally,  you would be unlikely to build a hull in two longitudinal pieces like that. If you had cut it in half to move outside for a dumpster, you wouldn't bother to shrink wrap it.

unless you have a short autoclave ... cost cutting and all

interesting lines, looks a little bit of a half way between ETNZ B1 and the 12m

[SCARECROW 547]

25 minutes ago, accnick said:

I'd say plug. Structurally,  you would be unlikely to build a hull in two longitudinal pieces like that. If you had cut it in half to move outside for a dumpster, you wouldn't bother to shrink wrap it.

Yep plug.  Looks a lot like ETNZ boat 1.5

[Stingray~ 1,237]

Male, right?

[Priscilla 2,093]

1 hour ago, Lickindip said:

hull or plug for mold?

You wouldn’t want a stitch and glue hull join close to anywhere near the foil arm.

[Priscilla 2,093]

B1 & B2

Maybe a radical breakthrough nesting  AC 75.

[accnick 211]

50 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Male, right?

That's what a plug is. Machine it in foam, glass over it, re-machine, and build a mold from it. SOP for modern one-off composite boats of this type.

[smackdaddy 295]

Shrinkwrap IS way cheaper than carbon fiber.

[Salty Seacock 319]

But mabey....

 

[accnick 211]

3 hours ago, Lickindip said:

unless you have a short autoclave ... cost cutting and all

interesting lines, looks a little bit of a half way between ETNZ B1 and the 12m

Rule 7.2

You can't autoclave a hull. Vacuum only.

[smackdaddy 295]

4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

A bit of amusement is welcome during these lock-down times.

Exactly! Glad you see the humor.

[RobG 673]

5 hours ago, Priscilla said:

You wouldn’t want a stitch and glue hull join close to anywhere near the foil arm.

Consider the whole arm + actuator + accumulator + mast support section as as single component about 2 to 3m long, then plug the hull bow and stern sections onto it. I expect a 1m overlap for each end is sufficient to join it together. How long was the new bow section that WOXI plugged on a couple of years ago?

A bit of very rough cut/paste. Bow and stern sections have been rescaled exactly the same amount. Conspiracy theory?

 

[Crux 15]

Of course you note that the hull is upside down! I'm sure if inverted one of them, that they would look very similar if not identical in shape as far as can be seen under the wrap.

[Flippin Out 109]

9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I’m hearing (the tweeting into my inner ear, from my imaginary birdie) that the reason S+S cut the boat in half was for a clever cause:

Easy & Fast transport by air to the S+S pad in Auckland! 

Having trouble trying to work this one out. Was it the front or the back that fell off ??

[Lickindip 485]

oooo to add the rumours, why would they piss about with the shrink wrap for the male plug

This their actual hull on transport pellets, it will come to NZ as soon as possible (flown) and Larry's builders will finish it off for free

this way the hull has been laid in the competitors country so section 9 of the protocol is sorted

 

[phill_nz 638]

if you can get it cheap it would be well worth the effort laying it up as a conventional race boat

[hoom 514]

2 hours ago, Crux said:

Of course you note that the hull is upside down!

Indeed, @robg please redo with the S&S hull the other way up.

 

Definitely bears a significant similarity to TNZ B1, I think it does look to be bellied.

[Priscilla 2,093]

3 hours ago, RobG said:

Consider the whole arm + actuator + accumulator + mast support section as as single component about 2 to 3m long, then plug the hull bow and stern sections onto it. I expect a 1m overlap for each end is sufficient to join it together. How long was the new bow section that WOXI plugged on a couple of years ago?

A bit of very rough cut/paste. Bow and stern sections have been rescaled exactly the same amount. Conspiracy theory?

 

Chances are pretty high if you build your AC75 hull in bits and glue them together it will look like this pretty quickly.

 

[RobG 673]

3 hours ago, hoom said:

Indeed, @robg please redo with the S&S hull the other way up.

[accnick 211]

4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Chances are pretty high if you build your AC75 hull in bits and glue them together it will look like this pretty quickly.

 

That failure was remarkably similar to what happened to AUS 35 in 1995. The thing that kept YA from meeting the same fate was that the boom wedged into the aft part of the cockpit sole, and Jerry Kirby  (and maybe a couple of others) lashed the boom down with the mainsheet, effectively preventing the boat from completely folding up and breaking into two pieces..

Despite the catastrophic damage, Eric Goetz and his crew  rebuilt the boat in record time and got them back on the water, but this was, literally speaking, the straw that broke the camel's back.

Jerry Kirby is the father of Rome Kirby, USA SailGP skipper. Jerry sailed in at least six America's Cups, and was one of the greatest bowmen of all time.

[Stingray~ 1,237]

2 hours ago, RobG said:

Making sense now, nice.

This all leaves open the possibility that the hull itself is inside the shop. 

[jackolantern 442]

Are we sure that the photo of the mold was not taken at the ETNZ build facility in NZ? 

In other words, is there anything in the photo that makes it seem like it was taken in America? 

[Skipstone 175]

1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Are we sure that the photo of the mold was not taken at the ETNZ build facility in NZ? 

In other words, is there anything in the photo that makes it seem like it was taken in America? 

Well, the forklift doesn't seem to be lhd... 

[smackdaddy 295]

3 minutes ago, Skipstone said:

Well, the forklift doesn't seem to be lhd... 

It's also obvious that the parking lot striping is for left-side-drive cars.

[jackolantern 442]

On 5/2/2020 at 4:16 PM, Stingray~ said:

I’m hearing (the tweeting into my inner ear, from my imaginary birdie) that the reason S+S cut the boat in half was for a clever cause:

Easy & Fast transport by air to the S+S pad in Auckland! 

Stingray, did you save the original of that photo as a jpeg? If so you could PM me for my email and I can see if there’s EXIF GPS data embedded in the file. 

[Stingray~ 1,237]

3 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Stingray, did you save the original of that photo as a jpeg? If so you could PM me for my email and I can see if there’s EXIF GPS data embedded in the file. 

That was just a screen-shot. For the ‘original’ with EXIF (if it exists) try at the SA link posted above, it’s what I snapped.

[Stingray~ 1,237]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:36 AM, Peacefrog said:

I was just doing a drive by in the Classifieds on here and came upon this little gem  

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/ac75-for-sale/

Here

[samsonite 18]

1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Are we sure that the photo of the mold was not taken at the ETNZ build facility in NZ? 

In other words, is there anything in the photo that makes it seem like it was taken in America? 

It looks like it’s from Holland, MI:

[samsonite 18]

From Composite Builders’ website:

[jackolantern 442]

2 minutes ago, samsonite said:

It looks like it’s from Holland, MI:

Holy crap.

Okay, so why is it in two pieces? ETNZ cuts the mold for B1 in half and ships it to the USA in plastic wrap so that Stars N Stripes can put it back together and pop a boat out of it? Or is that a full boat partially built in two halves and shipped to the US more cheaply where it would be "constructed" 

I am leaning towards it being partially built in NZ and then shipped here for final assembly. "A world class carbon deck" is much more than I was aware that S&S was building when construction stopped in mid-summer '19.

What is also not lost on me is that Holland MI is the hometown of the DeVos clan, who have sunk millions into Team American Magic. I bet that the comment about "the city won’t allow it to rot in the parking lot" could potentially be traced to the DeVos clan exerci$ing some influence in the city. Trying to get "whatever that is" destroyed or moved away so that even the slightest opportunity for S&S to finish a boat which could serve as a competitor to AM or testing partner of TNZ would be minimized. 

[samsonite 18]

Why two pieces? It could be as simple as CNC mill size:

For unique projects, like the Americas Cup yacht, the broad size of the racing vessel needs a high precision large-scale CNC to mill the plug. This is a specialized machine with only a few in the country. Five minutes away from Composite Builders’ location is Christiansen Fiberglass Tooling, outfitted for oversized milling with a 60 ft. length by 20 ft. wide, and 10 ft. high CNC mill. They finished the racing yacht’s expansive plug with aerospace tolerance and precision standards. Once the plug was ready to transport to Composite Builder’s facility it required only one truck making two short trips. This transport eliminated expensive LTL and the risk of shipping delays and travel wear.

Source: https://www.compositebuilders.com/why-specialized-jobs-like-the-americas-cup-boat-build-come-to-holland-mi/

[mad 3,701]

5 minutes ago, samsonite said:

Why two pieces? It could be as simple as CNC mill size:

For unique projects, like the Americas Cup yacht, the broad size of the racing vessel needs a high precision large-scale CNC to mill the plug. This is a specialized machine with only a few in the country. Five minutes away from Composite Builders’ location is Christiansen Fiberglass Tooling, outfitted for oversized milling with a 60 ft. length by 20 ft. wide, and 10 ft. high CNC mill. They finished the racing yacht’s expansive plug with aerospace tolerance and precision standards. Once the plug was ready to transport to Composite Builder’s facility it required only one truck making two short trips. This transport eliminated expensive LTL and the risk of shipping delays and travel wear.

Source: https://www.compositebuilders.com/why-specialized-jobs-like-the-americas-cup-boat-build-come-to-holland-mi/

This. 
 

Mill it 2 or more parts and just assemble it, fill the join line and start building. 

[smackdaddy 295]

So with all the above - why is this still thought to be a S&S thing?

[Stingray~ 1,237]

7 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

So with all the above - why is this still thought to be a S&S thing?

From the link:

When the Stars and Stripes (S&S) America’s Cup Racing Team’s project manager came to tour Composite Builder’s facility, he was inspired to see the extra support available in Holland township.

[samsonite 18]

27 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

So with all the above - why is this still thought to be a S&S thing?

Are you suggesting the mega-wealthy backers of Another aMerican campaign might be pulling strings here?

This is all speculative but $1MM (or 0.5% of your team budget) to get at the defender’s design package to plug into your own simulator seems like money well spent!

[smackdaddy 295]

Actually, I still think this is all more driven by the Emiratis than AM. The former have far more incentive to get even a half-assed "team/boat" to the line, even if they are bobbing around in a shrink-wrapped hull with a hobie-cat mast. After all, it was NZ's beloved Richard Clownwell who furtively "guaranteed" that S&S would be at the line come race day. I've not yet heard the same from Betsy.

Alternatively, AM would simply be diverting critical resources to prop up something that provides very little return for them.

So, though taking a peak at the plug/design package (as you say) - of a boat, by the way, that has proven disastrous in reality - might have some limited value, I just don't see how any of this is really about S&S - unless the Emiratis are funding them under the table.

[Lickindip 485]

ill just leave this here for more speculation

[Skipstone 175]

3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

From the link:

When the Stars and Stripes (S&S) America’s Cup Racing Team’s project manager came to tour Composite Builder’s facility, he was inspired to see the extra support available in Holland township.

And...this is pretty black and white...

https://www.hollandsentinel.com/news/20190130/holland-company-building-americas-cup-sailboat-in-new-location

Now, Composite Builders is working on one of its largest projects yet — a 75-foot sailboat for Stars & Stripes Team USA, an America’s Cup syndicate operated by Dennis Conner.

“We are really excited to be entered into the America’s Cup with our core values of being an authentic, inclusive and all-American team,” said Tod Reynolds, COO of Stars & Stripes. “And we think there’s no more tangible way to do that than building our boat right here in the middle of the country, right in the heart of America in Holland, Michigan.”

So far, Reynolds has been impressed.

“We’ve been blown away by the amount of expertise locally,” he said. “When you first think about building boats, you don’t necessarily gravitate toward Michigan. But the composite industry, as well as some of the boat-building tradition and heritage here, is pretty strong.”

[smackdaddy 295]

Well, it was "black and white" over a year ago.

[NeedAClew 1,065]

^Oh, look, in some parallel universe LE and his older kids find a vaccine in their Sensei lab on Lanai, he funds S+S and they win Prada at least...

In this one, we fight over cannisters of Clorox wipes and with airlines over refunds.

Wash your hands, don't touch your face.