Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

OK kids. How about a little fun! Why dont you tell daddy what you see at the back of the boat on the hull by the traveller at these exact times. Blow it up full screen!

1:35 to 1:41

1:48 to 1:52

2:00

3:50 to 3:53

4:47 to 4:50

Is Daddy seeing things? Too much tequila? (or vodka or bourbon or wine, depending) Are there ghosts on the boat? A Russian projector beaming fake news in the video? "absolutely nothing"? Just asking

Curious minds want to know :)

 

I've got it worked out.  It a hologram of the America's Cup and the closest the Challengers will get to holding it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mudz said:

Think they just need to sack their wrap techies. It’s just a poor vinyl job. 

In fact, who’s to say there is any structure behind it? Could be just vinyl blowing in the wind?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStcYVxifUAUjVRPhJNmgp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Curious minds want to know :)

 

22CA6B1B-88C7-4762-B838-15CA5E19572D.jpeg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, barfy said:

I've done a fair bit of driving boats on sticks and it isn't pretty. It doesn't have feel for rate of change, and extremes of position like a wheel does. I fly a racing drone with a stick, and it's all about rate of change, but you can do a barrel roll or loop with a drone, but not a drone.

We are used to FC's with rc rate and super rates though. If you just used rc rate it gets pretty linear (Obviously I don't think they use betaflight but whatever their flight control software I'm sure it's equally if not more configurable). I agree though it would suck if your thumb slipped off the sticks. Might have to pinch lol! Glad to see another fpv pilot into sailing also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Oh no, not you back again!

Weta watch the video sequences and tell me what you think. You were probably there

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, zillafreak said:

Weta watch the video sequences and tell me what you think. You were probably there

The video you quoted is shorter than any of the time stamps you listed so that's gonna be hard to do. The whole video was 1:36 long.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2020 at 11:17 AM, Stingray~ said:

 

 

What a fucktard. Ya that's helping my argument ...  This one

 

1:35 to 1:41

1:48 to 1:52

2:00

3:50 to 3:53

4:47 to 4:50

  • Like 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, gungabow said:

Note top rudder bearing area

The 2 stabilizer arms coming off the sides are fixed on other boats

You can see its connected directly to the top rudder bearing and the scope of movement can be seen by the gap fwd and aft

Keep an eye on this gap if you want to know rudder angles (upwind vs downwind etc)

The other boats cant do this as they have too much curvature in the hull at this point

 

Oh, but don't draw too many conclusions because folk will say it's just the wind moving the rudder shaft to and fro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, uflux said:

BB is a bullshit artist. Just hot air out of his arse. ETNZ will do what they do. BB doesn’t have a clue what to expect.

Don't contradict spewbot in his newfound love of butterballs..he's found someone to get behind in his "fun" pursuit of denigrating the team that smashed his oracle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JustinL42 said:

We are used to FC's with rc rate and super rates though. If you just used rc rate it gets pretty linear (Obviously I don't think they use betaflight but whatever their flight control software I'm sure it's equally if not more configurable). I agree though it would suck if your thumb slipped off the sticks. Might have to pinch lol! Glad to see another fpv pilot into sailing also.

I think the big difference is quick feedback of where you are with a wheel. You give the wheel a quick 90 degree..you tweak back and forth to get the rate of turn you want. Then you spin your hands  back to neutral. With the stick there isn't the same feedback. 

Or maybe there is? Let go of the stick and rate of turn snaps back to neutral. Many more possibilities for applying curves to responses.

Hmmm

Edit: of course you would have to learn to pinch:)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, barfy said:

I think the big difference is quick feedback of where you are with a wheel. You give the wheel a quick 90 degree..you tweak back and forth to get the rate of turn you want. Then you spin your hands  back to neutral. With the stick there isn't the same feedback. 

Or maybe there is? Let go of the stick and rate of turn snaps back to neutral. Many more possibilities for applying curves to responses.

Hmmm

Edit: of course you would have to learn to pinch:)

I have an old Marblehead Rc boat that I got in New Zealand when I was 13. Uses an old futaba with two sticks. I keep wanting to put a camera on it and sail it fpv. I think I'd have to have a head tracker so I could look at sail trim and look around a bit. I agree though it definitely wouldn't have the tactile feel of a wheel but then again I don't know what the wheel of one of these things would feel like anyway. It's a bit far from the cruising boat I grew up steering!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gungabow said:

Note top rudder bearing area

The 2 stabilizer arms coming off the sides are fixed on other boats

You can see its connected directly to the top rudder bearing and the scope of movement can be seen by the gap fwd and aft

Keep an eye on this gap if you want to know rudder angles (upwind vs downwind etc)

The other boats cant do this as they have too much curvature in the hull at this point

 

What a load of bullshit. The other boats can and do change their rudder angles. This is about as basic as it gets. Nobody would be as stupid to build a serious foiler of any kind without being able to adjust that rudder angle, unless it was banned in whatever class rules apply (which it was for the AC72's). This has been known for at least 10 years. You might as well not bother building a boat if you don't have it, because it is such a major component. Although it was some time ago, one of the Ineos pictures even showed the labelling of the rudder rake control.

As for the ETNZ solution, the slots on the rudder gantry aren't as aero as the way the other teams have done it, but it looks like the bearings would be easier to service.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, nroose said:

How come you are preventing us from adding to a playlist?

Fucked if I know. What does that even mean? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice shot by weta showing leech control sheet ram, outhaul on a hinge to the sheet..and maybe two horizontal bars for the traveller control?

Looks different from yesterday..wtf

20201121_190308.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey reminds me of the death stare I receive when asking for boat bucks.

Lord GD is mortal after all.

4D7FDC14-C52F-4A25-97B4-8209BB2DD1DD.thumb.jpeg.9bb0f34a14ee42bcd05134b65573a1f7.jpeg

 

 

 

Zipping up the purse

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

More like you’ve had enough now bugger off.

Maybe worthy of a caption contest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Thanks, missed that so far. 
 

similar, at https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2020/11/america-s-cup-team-new-zealand-opt-for-two-helmsman-with-new-boat.html

Kiwi sailing legend Brad Butterworth predicts Team New Zealand will opt for two helmsmen, when they defend the America's Cup in March 2021.

Team New Zealand's second boat is radically different from their first and came as a bit of a shock to onlookers, but Butterworth thinks the biggest shock is yet to come.

"The new boat looks like they might have two helmsmen, where they'll have dedicated helmsmen on side to side, which is something Luna Rossa are doing at the moment," he says. 

 

It’s pretty clear when you watch the video from the first day, two people go one way then one goes the other after every tack and gybe.

Brad is stuck in this is what we’re doing so it must be right mode.

does everyone remember when Artemis were going to have all their crew on a central pod on the AC72 because it would take to long to run from one side to the other....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, barfy said:

Maybe worthy of a caption contest

"And then ClarkE took the Dubai/Akld flight on Emirates commenting favourably on the "extra service".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/5/2019 at 4:21 PM, Kiwing said:

Silly Cindy seems to have quite a few admirers elsewhere.  And they would gladly trade her for their's.

If they knew Cindy, like we know Cindy ...

virtue signalling PR princess ... who leads the sheep as they truly deserve 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say what you like, she's the most popular PM we've had for a long time, and when you look around the world at the jobs other "world leaders" have done on Covid, thank your lucky stars she's ours.

  • Like 16
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kenergy said:

Fucked if I know. What does that even mean? 

Oh. YT thinks you are posting this video for kids, so they disabled it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Say what you like, she's the most popular PM we've had for a long time, and when you look around the world at the jobs other "world leaders" have done on Covid, thank your lucky stars she's ours.

Here's me thinking it was the Team of 5 million.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, nroose said:

Oh. YT thinks you are posting this video for kids, so they disabled it.

Ok 

I have fixed it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, weta27 said:

I won’t waste everybody’s time with 20 photos to prove it but there is NOTHING on the side of the boat there

He won't stop until everyone tell's him the hull has a deformity..!  Grant Dalton is holding a press conference Monday morning to address the issue. Talk about the bit between his teeth.! Zilla Zilla it's whatever you want it to be...! :D

0ceca91e5e878fee0536e3328179444b.png

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Say what you like, she's the most popular PM we've had for a long time, and when you look around the world at the jobs other "world leaders" have done on Covid, thank your lucky stars she's ours.

She's a breath of fresh air.! I'd have her over anyone at the moment.! 

  • Like 2
  • Downvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

She's a breath of fresh air.! I'd have her over anyone at the moment.! 

Supporting Jacinda was pretty much a no brainer as the opposition would have sold their own spawn to gain access to the treasury benches thereby enabling them to redistribute what public wealth remains into their already bulging pockets.
CFA573FD-DC26-44FD-8587-02E906D2A4C8.jpeg.d9d5bc4533b99cb25ae3d9f110589079.jpeg

3224F884-87B1-4FED-8E3F-210582E3B4E7.jpeg.76dff65874f41c059d277951f9ea2f9d.jpeg



 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SimonN said:

What a load of bullshit. The other boats can and do change their rudder angles. This is about as basic as it gets. Nobody would be as stupid to build a serious foiler of any kind without being able to adjust that rudder angle, unless it was banned in whatever class rules apply (which it was for the AC72's). This has been known for at least 10 years. You might as well not bother building a boat if you don't have it, because it is such a major component. Although it was some time ago, one of the Ineos pictures even showed the labelling of the rudder rake control.

As for the ETNZ solution, the slots on the rudder gantry aren't as aero as the way the other teams have done it, but it looks like the bearings would be easier to service.

Oh Dear

Lets try this again for the slow guys.

The struts on all the other boats are fastened to the vertical aero foil spout

Inside these are runners for the top rudder bearing to run along.

ETNZ have done away with a lot of the weight of that fitting because the side loads are now born directly by the struts

That means the bottom of the struts rotate. 

That rotation line is from the bottom of the strut, through the bottom rudder bearing and on to the bottom of the other strut

Meaning this system can only be done on a boat that has a flat stern (AKA ETNZ B2)

 

Now for the rest of the class

I wonder if Lick could do a calc to let us know if the rudder is full length

If we know this we could maybe find out the range of movement within that gap

Warning : the ETNZ boys will see this and put a cover over it soon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kiwi39 said:

If they knew Cindy, like we know Cindy ...

virtue signalling PR princess ... who leads the sheep as they truly deserve 

of all the things to discuss, you choose to wring out your vinegar? the sheep 'deserved' a covid freee nation eh hawk..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

of all the things to discuss, you choose to wring out your vinegar? the sheep 'deserved' a covid freee nation eh hawk..

Absolutely I do. 
 

She’s the very embodiment of all that’s wrong with the broken system of democracy that sees a deeply dysfunctional and inefficient public service, self serving political parties and politicians of all leanings, serving the public of New Zealand increasingly poorly. 

The really sad thing ? Most don’t see it. Most are too busy convincing themselves that their party would do it much better than that other mob. 
 

but hey ... keep convincing yourself she’s marvellous if it makes you  happy. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, gungabow said:

Oh Dear

Lets try this again for the slow guys.

The struts on all the other boats are fastened to the vertical aero foil spout

Inside these are runners for the top rudder bearing to run along.

ETNZ have done away with a lot of the weight of that fitting because the side loads are now born directly by the struts

That means the bottom of the struts rotate. 

That rotation line is from the bottom of the strut, through the bottom rudder bearing and on to the bottom of the other strut

Meaning this system can only be done on a boat that has a flat stern (AKA ETNZ B2)

 

Now for the rest of the class

I wonder if Lick could do a calc to let us know if the rudder is full length

If we know this we could maybe find out the range of movement within that gap

Warning : the ETNZ boys will see this and put a cover over it soon

So it’s not at all possible that the other teams have put a fixed shroud over the moving parts then? 
 

and you think the team will read you post realise you rumbled them and then cover it..... right :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, kiwi39 said:

Absolutely I do. 
 

She’s the very embodiment of all that’s wrong with the broken system of democracy that sees a deeply dysfunctional and inefficient public service, self serving political parties and politicians of all leanings, serving the public of New Zealand increasingly poorly. 

The really sad thing ? Most don’t see it. Most are too busy convincing themselves that their party would do it much better than that other mob. 
 

but hey ... keep convincing yourself she’s marvellous if it makes you  happy. 

She’s an absolute amateur, leading an inept bunch of clowns in cabinet to drive NZ to the bottom of the barrel.  Simply the most lame PM ever in NZ, just all teeth and hugs , no clues 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, kiwi39 said:

Absolutely I do. 
 

She’s the very embodiment of all that’s wrong with the broken system of democracy that sees a deeply dysfunctional and inefficient public service, self serving political parties and politicians of all leanings, serving the public of New Zealand increasingly poorly. 

The really sad thing ? Most don’t see it. Most are too busy convincing themselves that their party would do it much better than that other mob. 
 

but hey ... keep convincing yourself she’s marvellous if it makes you  happy. 

Pinot must have kicked in, because you can't even spot the hyprocrisy within your own handful of confused lines.

Sock also cost you some points... 

Jog on...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Barnyb said:

"And then ClarkE took the Dubai/Akld flight on Emirates commenting favourably on the "extra service".

He then went home to order lawn mowing services from some guy called Karel Sroubek.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Pinot must have kicked in, because you can't even spot the hyprocrisy within two lines.

Sock also cost you some points... 

Jog on...

Is baby bird hawke back? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the front page The EDTypical Anti AC Bullshit from the ED, so does ETNZ need to go and find colored people for the sake of it? 

We’re likely to see nearly the same thing with the other three (or is it two?) America’s Cup teams, but for christ’s sake, it is not possible to have less people of color on this massive team. And that is because there are none. And would you like to attempt to count how many women there are? No need, we did it for you: The answer is one. As in token. Or maybe there are more, but were told not to worry their pretty little heads over a silly photo op…

Really, this is the message you wish to send? If you aren’t white and don’t have a penis, then fuck off? There was no one of equal talent otherwise? It is total bullshit, insulting to millions (well it would be millions if anybody really gave a fuck about the AC, which they don’t), is a poor look, and sends exactly the wrong message.

Looks pretty racist and misogynist to us. Apparently they didn’t get the message about diversity.

 

The ED didn't look hard enough "I stopped counting after the 3rd Asian person"

team-white-knights1-scaled.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2020 at 11:56 AM, nav said:

Seems to me it's kinda what most sensible people look like who face 60+kn winds while outside getting wet, skiers, motorcyclists etc, no?

Rules....have you read them? Fairings may not transmit loads etc?

We skiers don’t get wet. Motorcyclists maybe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

No windows main or headsail.67127001-4358-4700-A30E-0F427A0DECB1.thumb.jpeg.77523a408981e568fdb157ec50b8f2b6.jpeg

 

 

Enough said..! No windows..? They know something we don't..? LOL  If they have 2 helmsman do they need windows?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Supporting Jacinda was pretty much a no brainer as the opposition would have sold their own spawn to gain access to the treasury benches thereby enabling them to redistribute what public wealth remains into their already bulging pockets.
CFA573FD-DC26-44FD-8587-02E906D2A4C8.jpeg.d9d5bc4533b99cb25ae3d9f110589079.jpeg

She really does look like a Rottweiler with a necklace...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, uflux said:

BB is a bullshit artist. Just hot air out of his arse. ETNZ will do what they do. BB doesn’t have a clue what to expect.

I'm sure BB would appreciate the irony of people on this forum criticising him for talking bollocks from a position of ignorance :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TeRethuai.jpg.102fcd3f7c16eb9323322e267bd6d4b4.jpg

Definitely the largest amount of clean deck space around the sails. Biggest distance for the crew to cross as well - not that I think that will be an issue. From this point of view she looks a lot different to the other boats.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

TeRethuai.jpg.102fcd3f7c16eb9323322e267bd6d4b4.jpg

Definitely the largest amount of clean deck space around the sails. Biggest distance for the crew to cross as well - not that I think that will be an issue. From this point of view she looks a lot different to the other boats.

Looks like INEOS boat 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

TeRethuai.jpg.102fcd3f7c16eb9323322e267bd6d4b4.jpg

Definitely the largest amount of clean deck space around the sails. Biggest distance for the crew to cross as well - not that I think that will be an issue. From this point of view she looks a lot different to the other boats.

Looks like an AC50 from that angle, only with wider foils and one rudder.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JonRowe said:

Looks like an AC50 from that angle, only with wider foils and one rudder.

It does look like a cat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Chris UK said:

Looks like INEOS boat 1.

Kind of, but lots of differences as well. The Ineos crew trenches are much wider, and thus the central clean area is quite a bit smaller. No inner wall for the trenches obviously either. The stern area is quite different as well.

523230125_Webinar_INEOSTEAMUK_LeveragingtheDigitalTwintoinnovatebetterandfaster_tcm27-79503.thumb.jpg.bf84f8bbd19ad2f5807423d4de154d23.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Thanks, missed that so far. 
 

similar, at https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2020/11/america-s-cup-team-new-zealand-opt-for-two-helmsman-with-new-boat.html

Kiwi sailing legend Brad Butterworth predicts Team New Zealand will opt for two helmsmen, when they defend the America's Cup in March 2021.

Team New Zealand's second boat is radically different from their first and came as a bit of a shock to onlookers, but Butterworth thinks the biggest shock is yet to come.

"The new boat looks like they might have two helmsmen, where they'll have dedicated helmsmen on side to side, which is something Luna Rossa are doing at the moment," he says. 

 

Make sense to have two helmsman.  The current fire drill just is not a good idea.  

Having guys cross before each turn lets the other team know what you are doing.  

Can you image them faking a turn?  Two guys run across, wait, and then run back across, .....  then run back across (oh wait, double fake...)

That boat is not designed to have sailors crossing sides.  The aero drag of having three men standing up on the deck has got to be much worse than the gain they get from enclosing the crew area.   They are just doing this now to learn how to sail the new boat (same reason they used the old foils).  Once they feel comfortable with the new boat and systems they will train in the second helmsman and not move crew from side to side.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, olboss said:

Guess they only need a rear view mirror..

Golf clap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

TeRethuai.jpg.102fcd3f7c16eb9323322e267bd6d4b4.jpg

Definitely the largest amount of clean deck space around the sails. Biggest distance for the crew to cross as well - not that I think that will be an issue. From this point of view she looks a lot different to the other boats.

Man you could use that stern as a straight edge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Kind of, but lots of differences as well. The Ineos crew trenches are much wider, and thus the central clean area is quite a bit smaller. No inner wall for the trenches obviously either. The stern area is quite different as well.

523230125_Webinar_INEOSTEAMUK_LeveragingtheDigitalTwintoinnovatebetterandfaster_tcm27-79503.thumb.jpg.bf84f8bbd19ad2f5807423d4de154d23.jpg

This shows the difference in windage too, both from the crew and all the kit inside the trench, but also the height of the deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

So it’s not at all possible that the other teams have put a fixed shroud over the moving parts then? 
 

and you think the team will read you post realise you rumbled them and then cover it..... right :lol:

His point is that unless the outer strut fixings and the top bearing are geometrically aligned, the rudder needs to rotate in a different way resulting in a heavier system.  Because the struts are fixed directly to the top of the rudder, and move with it as it changes angle, there's no need for additional strengthening, tracks etc.  It's a very efficient structural system

ETNZ are able to utilise this approach because their stern is flat, the outer ends of the strut are lower and they are able to geometrically align the three points.

If you put aside the personal attacks, constant misinterpretation of sarcasm, and unchecked misogyny, it's observations like this that make this place great.  Thanks @gungabow

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, olboss said:

Guess they only need a rear view mirror..

Unnecessary windage the four aft facing grinders will give Pistol Pete all the info he needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Seriously though could it be a reflection off the foil arm?

Still on about this 'reflection'?

Isn't it just print through from the structure attached to the inboard side?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

It’s pretty clear when you watch the video from the first day, two people go one way then one goes the other after every tack and gybe.

Brad is stuck in this is what we’re doing so it must be right mode.

does everyone remember when Artemis were going to have all their crew on a central pod on the AC72 because it would take to long to run from one side to the other....

Prada have a DOG they are doing everything to tip the odds in there favour and it's not really working out for them.
How embarrising you fund the event make the trophy for it and come dead last....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Make sense to have two helmsman.  The current fire drill just is not a good idea.  

Having guys cross before each turn lets the other team know what you are doing.  

Can you image them faking a turn?  Two guys run across, wait, and then run back across, .....  then run back across (oh wait, double fake...)

That boat is not designed to have sailors crossing sides.  The aero drag of having three men standing up on the deck has got to be much worse than the gain they get from enclosing the crew area.   They are just doing this now to learn how to sail the new boat (same reason they used the old foils).  Once they feel comfortable with the new boat and systems they will train in the second helmsman and not move crew from side to side.

Isn't that what they said in the last AC and ETNZ proved them wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm sure BB would appreciate the irony of people on this forum criticising him for talking bollocks from a position of ignorance :)

I like it when someone proves their own point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, zillafreak said:

OK kids. How about a little fun! Why dont you tell daddy what you see at the back of the boat on the hull by the traveller at these exact times. Blow it up full screen!

1:35 to 1:41

1:48 to 1:52

2:00

3:50 to 3:53

4:47 to 4:50

Is Daddy seeing things? Too much tequila? (or vodka or bourbon or wine, depending) Are there ghosts on the boat? A Russian projector beaming fake news in the video? "absolutely nothing"? Just asking

Curious minds want to know :)

 

71cyAJfBxoL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Enough said..! No windows..? They know something we don't..? LOL  If they have 2 helmsman do they need windows?

Didn’t another team launch without windows?  Perhaps they’re best positioned after some sailing?

But you may well be right.  Pete said in an interview with Live Sail Die(?) that we’d have to wait until the Xmas cup to get a true glimpse of how they intended to sail her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Didn’t another team launch without windows?  Perhaps they’re best positioned after some sailing?

But you may well be right.  Pete said in an interview with Live Sail Die(?) that we’d have to wait until the Xmas cup to get a true glimpse of how they intended to sail her.

Makes you wonder if they don’t have a camera system à la Hugo Boss .... or a screen that shows a graphic of where the other boat is .... or both 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Make sense to have two helmsman.  The current fire drill just is not a good idea.  

Having guys cross before each turn lets the other team know what you are doing.  

Can you image them faking a turn?  Two guys run across, wait, and then run back across, .....  then run back across (oh wait, double fake...)

That boat is not designed to have sailors crossing sides.  The aero drag of having three men standing up on the deck has got to be much worse than the gain they get from enclosing the crew area.   They are just doing this now to learn how to sail the new boat (same reason they used the old foils).  Once they feel comfortable with the new boat and systems they will train in the second helmsman and not move crew from side to side.

Don't they swap side after the manoeuvre? Isn't the first 'tell' the windward foil drop. The AC50s had the post manoeuvre helmsman cross first, but that was when they had no one too leeward. On the AC75s there's already someone on the other side. So no need to send anyone ahead of the turn. 

I do think having those few second it takes to cross, hand over controls then get back in the rhythm isn't ideal though. Plus, the guy grabbing the stick presumably isn't doing whatever they were previously doing. 

Is the view from the windward side that much better that it pays to have two helmsmen though? I would have thought having the tactician, flight controller, main trimmer all pretty near would help too. Just so they're seeing and hearing the same things. In which case how may of those swap sides too? Or is the communication system good enough that they can be anywhere? After all, you can't duplicate all these rolls on both side surely? Someone needs to be grinding?!

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Make sense to have two helmsman.  The current fire drill just is not a good idea.  

Having guys cross before each turn lets the other team know what you are doing.  

Can you image them faking a turn?  Two guys run across, wait, and then run back across, .....  then run back across (oh wait, double fake...)

That boat is not designed to have sailors crossing sides.  The aero drag of having three men standing up on the deck has got to be much worse than the gain they get from enclosing the crew area.   They are just doing this now to learn how to sail the new boat (same reason they used the old foils).  Once they feel comfortable with the new boat and systems they will train in the second helmsman and not move crew from side to side.

First thing I thought of when seeing those cockpits. Would be a major hassle climbing in and out. Looks like a tight space. Seems odd to have two helmsmen (I'm sorry Editor I mean Helmspeople -_-) but would guess ETNZ have it well thought out (?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

That boat is not designed to have sailors crossing sides.  The aero drag of having three men standing up on the deck has got to be much worse than the gain they get from enclosing the crew area.   They are just doing this now to learn how to sail the new boat (same reason they used the old foils).  Once they feel comfortable with the new boat and systems they will train in the second helmsman and not move crew from side to side.

And this boat WAS designed to have sailors crossing sides?

170625_AC35_GMR_7632-3-1-1024x682.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Don't they swap side after the manoeuvre? Isn't the first 'tell' the windward foil drop. The AC50s had the post manoeuvre helmsman cross first, but that was when they had no one too leeward. On the AC75s there's already someone on the other side. So no need to send anyone ahead of the turn. 

I do think having those few second it takes to cross, hand over controls then get back in the rhythm isn't ideal though. Plus, the guy grabbing the stick presumably isn't doing whatever they were previously doing. 

Is the view from the windward side that much better that it pays to have two helmsmen though? I would have thought having the tactician, flight controller, main trimmer all pretty near would help too. Just so they're seeing and hearing the same things. In which case how may of those swap sides too? Or is the communication system good enough that they can be anywhere? After all, you can't duplicate all these rolls on both side surely? Someone needs to be grinding?!

 

 

 

Ineos yesterday didn’t look to have anyone swapping sides, ok I didn’t see every second of their day, however, several videos didn’t reveal anything different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it’s safe to say you need both a skipper and main trimmer on the windward side.  Seeing the breeze will be important.  Having a skipper to leeward would be useful too, often.

@The_Alchemist, you talk about training up a skipper.  If you’re going to avoid crossing entirely then you’d need to train a main trimmer too. In looking at this video, at the tack at around 2:30, it struck me that the name on the back of the person who moves to leeward is too long to be “TUKE”.  He’s a bit long and gangly for Blair too.  Perhaps Josh Junior, another accomplished skipper (albeit in a non-apparent wind type boat)? They’re also not very good at it.  I understand they had a full sized mock up for their AC50.  You’d think they’d have the same for the AC75 and that they’d be pretty smooth already.

Then I remembered the padded jackets from 2017.  Given all the kit these guys are wearing (helmets, earmuffs, glasses etc) it’s pretty hard to distinguish between.  These guys may well have been disguising the fact that they’ve been training up two (or more) skippers and main trimmers for the past year.  This would enable them to avoid swapping sides and giving the team greater resilience (in the event of injury, retirement or defection to another team after this round).  Having said that, to do it without the other teams noticing may have been very difficult.

Brad Butterworth said on Thursday that LR are using two skippers.  It makes sense that other teams will have been looking at the same idea.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Brad Butterworth said on Thursday that LR are using two skippers.

Would you believe everything Butterworth was saying?

Also if you assume that the Helmsman is not at the rear of the crew pod but further forward perhaps the middle then you could have a situation where it is only two people interchanging not three.  Now which two positions would need to change?  The disadvantage of not switching sides is that you reduce the specialisation in other crew roles.  Do you have two helmsmen, two flight controllers and two wing controllers?  Six out of the 11?

You will also have command issues - can you see Ben Ainslie at the peak of battle handing over control to another helmsman just because they are on a different tack?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Don't they swap side after the manoeuvre? Isn't the first 'tell' the windward foil drop. The AC50s had the post manoeuvre helmsman cross first, but that was when they had no one too leeward. On the AC75s there's already someone on the other side. So no need to send anyone ahead of the turn. 

I do think having those few second it takes to cross, hand over controls then get back in the rhythm isn't ideal though. Plus, the guy grabbing the stick presumably isn't doing whatever they were previously doing. 

Is the view from the windward side that much better that it pays to have two helmsmen though? I would have thought having the tactician, flight controller, main trimmer all pretty near would help too. Just so they're seeing and hearing the same things. In which case how may of those swap sides too? Or is the communication system good enough that they can be anywhere? After all, you can't duplicate all these rolls on both side surely? Someone needs to be grinding?!

 

 

 

You are right, right after the turn two swap over and than another goes back over.  my bad..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't there supposed to be 11 crew?

It is really hard to see more than five at any one time.  So those grinders are sure as hell damn low in the boat.

Also those that are switching sides are in the middle of the pod and don't move until after the tack.  So crew movements don't signal anything.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

His point is that unless the outer strut fixings and the top bearing are geometrically aligned, the rudder needs to rotate in a different way resulting in a heavier system.  Because the struts are fixed directly to the top of the rudder, and move with it as it changes angle, there's no need for additional strengthening, tracks etc.  It's a very efficient structural system

ETNZ are able to utilise this approach because their stern is flat, the outer ends of the strut are lower and they are able to geometrically align the three points.

If you put aside the personal attacks, constant misinterpretation of sarcasm, and unchecked misogyny, it's observations like this that make this place great.  Thanks @gungabow

Thank You sir

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Would you believe everything Butterworth was saying?

Also if you assume that the Helmsman is not at the rear of the crew pod but further forward perhaps the middle then you could have a situation where it is only two people interchanging not three.  Now which two positions would need to change?  The disadvantage of not switching sides is that you reduce the specialisation in other crew roles.  Do you have two helmsmen, two flight controllers and two wing controllers?  Six out of the 11?

You will also have command issues - can you see Ben Ainslie at the peak of battle handing over control to another helmsman just because they are on a different tack?

 

The helm is in the middle of the pod, if we believe what we’re seeing in the ETNZ video above.  Your note about reduced specialisation is right, hence my point above about having to train others up.

If any of the four skippers has the ability to get over himself and his own ego, Pete would be my pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

If any of the four skippers has the ability to get over himself and his own ego, Pete would be my pick.

In the last cup Burling was just the helmsman - Ashby was Skipper.

As for having two helmsman - why dilute the effectiveness of the best in the world when it isn't necessary?  We are seeing in the video's that crew are switching sides easily and effectively.

As for Butterworth - good luck with a bunch of Italians have two helmsmen!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

In the last cup Burling was just the helmsman - Ashby was Skipper.

Cool.  Semantics, I love this game!

18 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

As for having two helmsman - why dilute the effectiveness of the best in the world when it isn't necessary?  We are seeing in the video's that crew are switching sides easily and effectively.

I don’t know.  We might find out I guess.

18 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

As for Butterworth - good luck with a bunch of Italians have two helmsmen!

It was the Australian I was thinking about actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I think it’s safe to say you need both a skipper and main trimmer on the windward side.  Seeing the breeze will be important.  Having a skipper to leeward would be useful too, often.

@The_Alchemist, you talk about training up a skipper.  If you’re going to avoid crossing entirely then you’d need to train a main trimmer too. In looking at this video, at the tack at around 2:30, it struck me that the name on the back of the person who moves to leeward is too long to be “TUKE”.  He’s a bit long and gangly for Blair too.  Perhaps Josh Junior, another accomplished skipper (albeit in a non-apparent wind type boat)? They’re also not very good at it.  I understand they had a full sized mock up for their AC50.  You’d think they’d have the same for the AC75 and that they’d be pretty smooth already.

Then I remembered the padded jackets from 2017.  Given all the kit these guys are wearing (helmets, earmuffs, glasses etc) it’s pretty hard to distinguish between.  These guys may well have been disguising the fact that they’ve been training up two (or more) skippers and main trimmers for the past year.  This would enable them to avoid swapping sides and giving the team greater resilience (in the event of injury, retirement or defection to another team after this round).  Having said that, to do it without the other teams noticing may have been very difficult.

Brad Butterworth said on Thursday that LR are using two skippers.  It makes sense that other teams will have been looking at the same idea.

 

Very slick :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Isn't there supposed to be 11 crew?

It is really hard to see more than five at any one time.  So those grinders are sure as hell damn low in the boat.

Also those that are switching sides are in the middle of the pod and don't move until after the tack.  So crew movements don't signal anything.

I like how they cross over and then disappear into the pods. The guy who crosses back disappears into the pod out of sight altogether. I wonder if the Challengers have to option of modifying their pods to drop their grinders lower out of the wind...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Indio said:

I like how they cross over and then disappear into the pods. The guy who crosses back disappears into the pod out of sight altogether. I wonder if the Challengers have to option of modifying their pods to drop their grinders lower out of the wind...

Yes I concur.  They really worked on this in the last cup.  LOL in reference to the stupid click bait article about the composition of the NZ team the work was/is done by a young female!!

I think the other boats have the option of adding higher pods BUT their deck is not as clean as ETNZ's.  In my opinion once again ETNZ has found a solution that optimises control systems and reduces windage.  The clean deck and the optimised pods seem to have been designed as a whole package.

Every time I count the crew I can't find 11 - barely get past 5 at best count.....are they not sailing yet with a full crew?

Also the pods make it harder for the spies to work out what they are actually doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites