Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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I was a bit unsure of the design of NZ2 initially, but it is really growing on me. The aero deck layout seems like a good solution to keep drag to a minimum.

However, I'm guessing that foil shape, flight control and sail control are going to be more important in the end. 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

I don't think it is. You can see some structure within the skins down near the foot.

10,000th post Mr Rock. Congratulations!

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12 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

I was a bit unsure of the design of NZ2 initially, but it is really growing on me. The aero deck layout seems like a good solution to keep drag to a minimum.

However, I'm guessing that foil shape, flight control and sail control are going to be more important in the end. 

The Deck and hull shape are not only low drag, they're also lifting profile for a wing in ground effect Aerofoil which probably produces a significant amount of lift requiring less foil in the water - or better said less flap angle to get airborne - and stay airborne 

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1 minute ago, kiwi39 said:

The Deck and hull shape are not only low drag, they're also lifting profile for a wing in ground effect Aerofoil which probably produces a significant amount of lift requiring less foil in the water - or better said less flap angle to get airborne - and stay airborne 

Yeah, for sure. Everything effects everything else, so how all the elements work together will be key. 

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4 hours ago, barfy said:

^^

-one boat program

-launch date specified a year ago

Just two pretty hard points to silence some of the rabble

Yes, but he also said the design was completed after they had sailed and learned from NZ B1.  Which also means that they had seen all of the other B1's before the design was complete.  So design inspiration from the competitors B1's is also very possible.

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11 minutes ago, kiwi39 said:

The Deck and hull shape are not only low drag, they're also lifting profile for a wing in ground effect Aerofoil which probably produces a significant amount of lift requiring less foil in the water - or better said less flap angle to get airborne - and stay airborne 

Just as the other B2's

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12 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

10,000th post Mr Rock. Congratulations!

What can I say. I'm a dirty, rancid, slut. Post whoring is my reason to be. In fact, I'm so full of shit, when I give head it counts as anal.

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9 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Just as the other B2's

Agreed .

I think the kiwi design is the most obvious and cleanest of them in that regard.

That notwithstanding I'm sure the others have done their sums in this regard - and Its interesting that they've all come up with different shapes (although not wildly so)  to achieve the same thing.

 

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6 hours ago, uflux said:

So the wide keel is not necessarily designed to give a skipping action off the water (which it could), but it is to meet the volume requirements and act as a canoe bottom (writer says you can hear the water slapping under the hull when it is just sitting still).  The wide and flat stern gives the hull stability when gaining speed to get up on the foils.  The hull heels slightly and dips one edge into the water more like the two narrow hulls of a cat.  Thus giving less drag and greater acceleration than just a flat hull without the wide keel.  The concave bow brings air down under the hull and helps with pushing the bow up.  This is a major improvement to the B1 design.

790782181_ScreenShot2020-11-21at10_45_53PM.png.d8fb3ab23667c44c656a19a3c1331594.png

 

The keel also allows them to get closer to the water and develop end platting.

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It's early days but I am liking B2 a lot. In BDA ETNZs wing had quite different internal and external controls to everyone else, and already they seem to have quite different lower main controls, perhaps to maximise power down low. The upper controls if any are invisible for now but I'm sure they have something going on up top, as it needs powered up then depowered rapidly when up to speed. They also seem the only boat with mast bend or prebend. They have the most aero Hull. In BDA they had the best foil and flight control system, I expect similar innovations happening this time. Rudder design has attracted comment above. Finally, RG was somewhat impressed at their first foil in 5 knots while Ineos was still in displacement with a zero. Seems optimised for light conditions perhaps with an eye to calmer autumn weather, just like in BDA.....

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I really think the concave bows of both NZ and AM are major design advantages.  NZ follows it up with "air channels" under the boat and AM has similar "channels" but not as pronounce (more rounded into the shape).  UK has similar "air channels" but not concave bow to force the air down.

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Just now, The_Alchemist said:

The keel also allows them to get closer to the water and develop end platting.

You saw the way they were flying in their first sail. Very low to the water trying to seal the pressure differential. Only Ineos seem to have the shape to replicate this, but their flight control hasn't quite nailed it consistently, from the footage we've seen. The low flying from Te Rehutai, with the foil tip still breaking, looks like a pretty nice mode.

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24 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Finally, RG was somewhat impressed at their first foil in 5 knots while Ineos was still in displacement with a zero.

RG forgot to mention that, at the same time, LR was comfortably foiling with their #1 up.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Yes, but he also said the design was completed after they had sailed and learned from NZ B1.  Which also means that they had seen all of the other B1's before the design was complete.  So design inspiration from the competitors B1's is also very possible.

Absolutely. And probably true for all teams.

I was just pinning my two predictions..

One boat program,

On time delivery of b2.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

So the wide keel is not necessarily designed to give a skipping action off the water (which it could), but it is to meet the volume requirements and act as a canoe bottom (writer says you can hear the water slapping under the hull when it is just sitting still).  The wide and flat stern gives the hull stability when gaining speed to get up on the foils.  The hull heels slightly and dips one edge into the water more like the two narrow hulls of a cat.  Thus giving less drag and greater acceleration than just a flat hull without the wide keel.  The concave bow brings air down under the hull and helps with pushing the bow up.  This is a major improvement to the B1 design.

790782181_ScreenShot2020-11-21at10_45_53PM.png.d8fb3ab23667c44c656a19a3c1331594.png

 

The keel also allows them to get closer to the water and develop end platting.

Other ergonomic benefits too.

7F187733-2AB1-4F48-B1D6-C9CD094C45E5.jpeg

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Yes, but he also said the design was completed after they had sailed and learned from NZ B1.  Which also means that they had seen all of the other B1's before the design was complete.  So design inspiration from the competitors B1's is also very possible.

"design inspiration" only applies if you're designing clothes - or cobblestones!! In such an accurate science-driven discipline as AC yacht design, the notion of "design inspiration" is an insult to the highly qualified designers using physics and powerful computational tools to bring to life their creations.

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30 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Other ergonomic benefits too.

7F187733-2AB1-4F48-B1D6-C9CD094C45E5.jpeg

Precisely.......

The only “improvement” I could see for NZB2 is to make is a proper flat ski bottom. An easy modification. My VPP says that the dynamic lift on my boat’s flat bottom at 10 knots lifts the bow by 125 mm and shifts LCG aft by 836 mm on a 9.5 metre 970 kg hull, so here are some serious numbers possible on a dynamic skiing AC75 with much higher speeds.

UKB2 messed up their fuselage  underside by having that strange transition zone, which might reduce waterline beam and WSA but must detract from any tunnel hull effect?

A0DBB933-F296-408F-8B1F-D616CA4A4B80.jpeg

F2BA6998-290C-4633-85EA-F022954FC045.jpeg

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On 11/20/2020 at 3:08 PM, weta27 said:

boom1.jpg

Why yes Weta I do see the drainage flap. Why did you redact your post? My my sure looks like its just below the EXACT SAME SPOT  I have been hallucinating about eh? See that trapezoidal area above the drainage slot? My oh my how that looks like the same "reflection" on the other side :lol:

1704495029_ScreenShot2020-11-19at8_31_42PM.png.71df49b263e7abedcae912889960390c.png

 

109804541_ScreenShot2020-11-21at4_02_12PM.png.2a065725ebcb0c9ced51d5c9d6e5f733.png

I suppose this is a reflection too:lol: :lol::lol:  Someones square butthole perhaps? :o:D

Do you perhaps think my hallucination has something to do with the traveller and the drainage slot? Oooohhh spooky... :ph34r:  

Wahdya think doubters?  

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24 minutes ago, Indio said:

"design inspiration" only applies if you're designing clothes - or cobblestones!! In such an accurate science-driven discipline as AC yacht design, the notion of "design inspiration" is an insult to the highly qualified designers using physics and powerful computational tools to bring to life their creations.

It is not really copying when you see your competition design something badly then you implement it correctly yourself. :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Why yes Weta I do see the drainage flap. Why did you redact your post? My my sure looks like its just below the EXACT SAME SPOT  I have been hallucinating about eh? See that trapezoidal area above the drainage slot? My oh my how that looks like the same "reflection" on the other side :lol:

1704495029_ScreenShot2020-11-19at8_31_42PM.png.71df49b263e7abedcae912889960390c.png

 

109804541_ScreenShot2020-11-21at4_02_12PM.png.2a065725ebcb0c9ced51d5c9d6e5f733.png

I suppose this is a reflection too:lol: :lol::lol:  Someones square butthole perhaps? :o:D

Do you perhaps think my hallucination has something to do with the traveller and the drainage slot? Oooohhh spooky... :ph34r:  

Wahdya think doubters?  

I’m still looking for a patch....has anyone seen a patch??... no??...anyone?? :P

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43 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

"Is your role still the same?"

PB @3.16 "You will have to wait and see"

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5 minutes ago, uflux said:

I’m still looking for a patch....has anyone seen a patch??... no??...anyone?? :P

Patch smatch. Whatever the fuck it is. Something is there. 

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1 minute ago, zillafreak said:

Patch smatch. Whatever the fuck it is. Something is there. 

Yeah the side of a yacht

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Just now, Priscilla said:

Nobody gives a fuck plain and simple.

Once upon a time SA denizens actually did give a fuck about details. Its how we found out about shit. You can fuck off if you dont

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2 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Once upon a time SA denizens actually did give a fuck about details. Its how we found out about shit. You can fuck off if yo

yeyy there is something there

probably a drainage flap .. give it a rest

and get over it

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11 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

yeyy there is something there

probably a drainage flap .. give it a rest

and get over it

Oh I was over it as soon as I posted it the first time. A minor finding of little significance. Other douchebags disagreed and said I was seeing things. After dealing with fuckwit Trump alternative reality idiots in the US (to this day), I cant let stupidity and denial go by any more. Sorry for bothering everyone with such a minor issue, but its the principle of the thing...

Ya something is there. Doesnt matter one fuck

Now on with the cup with AM vs ETNZ...

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

I cant let stupidity and denial go by any more. Sorry for bothering everyone with such a minor issue, but its the principle of the thing...

Zilla before you blow your foo foo valve take your concerns to TNZ I am sure that the hull defect void patch that you have identified will be of great interest to the organisation that built the fastest mono hull sail boat of all time.

9BFC4497-43EF-401F-A1C9-7DFE17FB8305.thumb.jpeg.5cfa66f63702d69edcda480f044cb829.jpeg

 

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Zilla before you blow your foo foo valve take your concerns to ETNZ I am sure that the hull defect void patch that you have identified will be of great interest to the organisation that built the fastest mono hull sail boat of all time.

9BFC4497-43EF-401F-A1C9-7DFE17FB8305.thumb.jpeg.5cfa66f63702d69edcda480f044cb829.jpeg

 

Now who has been hitting the booze too much :D You do realize I'm a huge ETNZ fan ya? No mention from me about a defect. I am simply commenting on something I saw in a video and asking the (apparently drunken and/or medicated) gallery what they think of it.

 

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29 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Now who has been hitting the booze too much :D You do realize I'm a huge ETNZ fan ya? No mention from me about a defect. I am simply commenting on something I saw in a video and asking the (apparently drunken and/or medicated) gallery what they think of it.

 

Used to drink many moons ago but had to give the fire water a wide berth after repeatedly seeing hull indentations and terminal structural deformations in AC75 hulls.

Hah you would have pissed yourself being a fly on the wall at my AA meetings Hi I am Priscilla and I am a alcoholic before I delve any further into my liquor  related dependency issues can anyone in the group fill me in on what the fuck are the mysterious indentations on the port and starboard rear quarter hull sections of Te Rehutai.

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42 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Now who has been hitting the booze too much :D You do realize I'm a huge ETNZ fan ya? No mention from me about a defect. I am simply commenting on something I saw in a video and asking the (apparently drunken and/or medicated) gallery what they think of it.

 

Mate,I for one think you spotted a ripple in the continuum. The hypothesis that there is a load bearing strut for the traveller behind had a high probability of being correct.  High end 3d design packages let you roll an object back and forth and observe raytrace reflections to verify the continuity of the surface.

I believe.

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Waiting for the English version, here what Vittorio and Pietro think about the first sailing day of Te Rehutai

- it would be more "logical" and more linear if Britannia 2 and Te Rehutai switched colors, since ETNZ B2 is an extreme version of Britannia 1 and Britannia 2 and extreme version of the "bustle" concept we saw on Te Ahie. Maybe that would worried more the other challengers,  which are probably worried anyway, since the first sailing day was almost perfect for the defender. 

- Britannia 1 and Te Rehutai share some common design features, like the high side that protect the crew and the flat deck with the lowered mast in order to gain more sail area - while every other boat, Britannia 2 included, have the curved deck that have a sort of "wing" function. Te Rehutai shares with Britannia 1 also the boomless approach. The NZ boat now have a decksweeper and probably use some flexible battens to control the camber of the mainsail. There's a lot of deck space between the two "cockpits" . 

- Te Rehutai mainsail have two clew point, while Britannia 1 had one. They probably can control each clew point separately, so they can control the base and the leech of the mainsail. 

- The "box" on the mast is at the same height of the first battens, and maybe it could be a device to "press" and "flex" the lower battens indipendently and differently, in order to change the profile of the mainsail.They think that instead of a boom they use two flexible battens, and some device that flex them to control the camber of the mainsail, similarly to LR (although LR do this in the bottom part of -or under- the deck). 

- First sailing day was very good and - very important thing-  maneuvers were very good. They were in perfect wind/sea conditions, but the boat seems to lose almost nothing during tacks and gybes, so they could try something different than just bounce from bounce to bounce during the race. 

- Andrea Vigoni noticed that Te Rehutai flies with the foil arm completely open, with a significant part of the windward foil out of the water. Pietro adds that ETNZ foils are flat, unlike all other team, and that's why they are tipping out so much. The fairing on the arm probably helps them, since they seem to have total control over the boat. There were some little touchdown with the keel, but it was day 1 after all, some little imprecisions are due. 

- The stern is flat, and probably as large as the rule allows, so the person switching side have a lot of space to cover. They could use a double helmsman configuration, like Luna Rossa, where Sibello (mainsail trimmer) switch side while JS and Bruni share the helm/fligh controller role. Vittorio thinks that PB and GA could share the helm / tactics role. (Edit: BB talked about Tuke sharing the role with PB, in order to keep GA at the mainsail trimming). 

 

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^

- Boomless: Am I the only one seeing what appears to be the obvious end of a boom sticking out the back of the sail? Sure there is no sign of it printing through the skins but I'm not convinced they haven't continued with the 'disjointed' boom from B1, it didn't always show from the side either.

- Clews: Surely everyone is controlling both clews independently.

- High sides like Britannia 1: Seriously? Brit2 and Te Rehutai share a similar idea, which seems to be to wrap the mechanical guts of the boat as minimally as possible and put the extra hull volume into the 'skeel'. The side on Te Rehutai might be bluff but they must have at least meter less height than the pipeline barge did.

- Foils: Yes ETNZ are indeed plying flat foils (atm), just as their simulation video showed way back when the concept was first publicised :D

- Impressive first day: Sure was

- Helm: BB et al can speculate all they want about 2 helmspersons, but all we can say for sure is that there is zero sign of that for this team as of today......

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9 hours ago, uflux said:

It is not really copying when you see your competition design something badly then you implement it correctly yourself. :rolleyes:

It is if you never thought of it before.  You may have just developed a better understanding of the concept.  
 

It happens all of the time in product development and patents.  If fact, that is part of the purpose of a patent is to share the knowledge in exchange for exclusive rights for a period in time.  Progress comes from making iterations and improvements on prior designs and adapting ideas from other seemingly unrelated concepts.

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16 minutes ago, nav said:

...

- High sides like Britannia 1...

To protect the electronics that these boats increasing depend on. Those early on splash downs had to be rough on their electrical systems.

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9 hours ago, zillafreak said:

Why yes Weta I do see the drainage flap. Why did you redact your post? My my sure looks like its just below the EXACT SAME SPOT  I have been hallucinating about eh? See that trapezoidal area above the drainage slot? My oh my how that looks like the same "reflection" on the other side :lol:

1704495029_ScreenShot2020-11-19at8_31_42PM.png.71df49b263e7abedcae912889960390c.png

 

109804541_ScreenShot2020-11-21at4_02_12PM.png.2a065725ebcb0c9ced51d5c9d6e5f733.png

I suppose this is a reflection too:lol: :lol::lol:  Someones square butthole perhaps? :o:D

Do you perhaps think my hallucination has something to do with the traveller and the drainage slot? Oooohhh spooky... :ph34r:  

Wahdya think doubters?  

Ok, it is an access panel to clean the shit’r.  They anticipate another nose dive and want to be able to hose it down to clean it out.  They can’t afford to scrap it like they had to with the other boat.... :D

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I wouldn’t say zero signs.  How about the new mainsail not having any windows when all of the others have had.  They new crew pit is very high and not easy to climb out of (the crew holes on the AC45 were much less).  These are clues or possible signs.   And just because they swapped crew on the first sail of a new boat doesn’t guarantee that they will continue to do it after they gain more confidence with the boat.

We will find out in the next few weeks.

 

sorry, I quoted the wrong message.  This is in response to no signs of crew swapping.

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46 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is if you never thought of it before.  You may have just developed a better understanding of the concept.  
 

It happens all of the time in product development and patents.  If fact, that is part of the purpose of a patent is to share the knowledge in exchange for exclusive rights for a period in time.  Progress comes from making iterations and improvements on prior designs and adapting ideas from other seemingly unrelated concepts.

Given the compressed time line it’s amazing ineos hit on one of the key features that appeared on NZ B2

only to discard it after practical experience of it

best hope the reasons they ditched the extreme version of it don’t become an issue for team kiwi. 

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10 hours ago, zillafreak said:

Why yes Weta I do see the drainage flap. Why did you redact your post? My my sure looks like its just below the EXACT SAME SPOT  I have been hallucinating about eh? See that trapezoidal area above the drainage slot? My oh my how that looks like the same "reflection" on the other side :lol:

1704495029_ScreenShot2020-11-19at8_31_42PM.png.71df49b263e7abedcae912889960390c.png

 

109804541_ScreenShot2020-11-21at4_02_12PM.png.2a065725ebcb0c9ced51d5c9d6e5f733.png

I suppose this is a reflection too:lol: :lol::lol:  Someones square butthole perhaps? :o:D

Do you perhaps think my hallucination has something to do with the traveller and the drainage slot? Oooohhh spooky... :ph34r:  

Wahdya think doubters?  

Isn't it just a reflection of that floating bus stop RH pointed out awhile back?

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2 hours ago, nav said:

- Boomless: Am I the only one seeing what appears to be the obvious end of a boom sticking out the back of the sail? Sure there is no sign of it printing through the skins but I'm not convinced they haven't continued with the 'disjointed' boom from B1, it didn't always show from the side either.

- Clews: Surely everyone is controlling both clews independently.

I don't see that boom, just a clew adjustment. 

The double take off they are talking about it vertical displacement of the two take off points, not one for each skin. So you can change the sheeting angle dramatically. I highlighted on the other page the difference in the clew control in comparison the INEOS set up for their boomless sail. 

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11 hours ago, zillafreak said:

and asking the (apparently drunken and/or medicated) gallery what they think of it.

There IS a reflection in the video, which I also see in a bunch of my photos taken while she was sitting on the cradle at the launch party. I was also on the bridge just along from Mike, who took that video, so I was picking up the same reflections. But it changes shape in my shots and moves position just as the boat was lifted out of the cradle.

As the boat was lifted it was turned and here is the best angle to show (1) how reflective that surface is (the yellow lines are the lifting crane), and (2) that the area in question above the flap is pristine flat and unblemished.

Likewise, I have over 30 shots of the other side, and yes, some of those show reflections in that spot, but they are different shapes and they move around. Many shots show nothing, just a clean flat surface, kind of like this:

patch1.jpg

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There was a link posted somewhere recently where sailors were saying they helped apply polish to the hull. Maybe it’s just an artifact, a slight variation, due to whoever applied it in that assigned area. 

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Whether it is a reflection or something who cares.  I'm in the camp of it's a reflection.  Weta27 has seen more of these boats than anyone else on AC Anarchy and what's more has taken pictures reaching what one would call a forensic level.  So if he says "it's a reflection" I'd back him over zillafreak who is just analysing selective pictures and videos at low resolution.

Now back to more important things that do make a difference.  The innovative accumulation of innovations in hull shape, the foils and foil arm differences and the mainsail controls have delivered a package that in 6 knots of wind using a #1 can get up and foiling at 23 knots and manoeuvre at a high standard on day one.  That is impressive regardless of your country bias and I would say the Challengers without exception have wide open eyes and mouths.

To me it looks like on Day one of the new boat ETNZ are already at or beyond the level of the others who have been testing for weeks.  So much for all the negativity around delays and leaving it too late etc etc. 

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15 hours ago, minimumfuss said:

It's early days but I am liking B2 a lot. In BDA ETNZs wing had quite different internal and external controls to everyone else, and already they seem to have quite different lower main controls, perhaps to maximise power down low. The upper controls if any are invisible for now but I'm sure they have something going on up top, as it needs powered up then depowered rapidly when up to speed. They also seem the only boat with mast bend or prebend. They have the most aero Hull. In BDA they had the best foil and flight control system, I expect similar innovations happening this time. Rudder design has attracted comment above. Finally, RG was somewhat impressed at their first foil in 5 knots while Ineos was still in displacement with a zero. Seems optimised for light conditions perhaps with an eye to calmer autumn weather, just like in BDA.....

Their wing control was years ahead of anyone else in Bermuda also. It still appears that their wing control is superior to any of the challengers by a margin.

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43 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Their wing control was years ahead of anyone else in Bermuda also. It still appears that their wing control is superior to any of the challengers by a margin.

That’s where I anticipate their advantage being this time too, with GA’s input a big part of it.

Another advantage ETNZ has, is being how in March the conditions they can target for will be different from what the Challs have to target, to win into March. ‘All around’ sails and foils is not  going to win anything, you have hot-spot and then get lucky on your calls to a degree. 

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16 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

That’s where I anticipate their advantage being this time too, with GA’s input a big part of it.

Another advantage ETNZ has, is being how in March the conditions they can target for will be different from what the Challs have to target, to win into March. ‘All around’ sails and foils is not  going to win anything, you have hot-spot and then get lucky on your calls to a degree. 

The La Niña will change the usual summer conditions in Auckland so the weather could be anything in March. Perfect cyclone window

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16 minutes ago, uflux said:

The La Niña will change the usual summer conditions in Auckland so the weather could be anything in March. Perfect cyclone window

Nup.  La Nina MAY possibly bring increase cyclone events - but they are short and sharp and don't carry into March normally.  If a cyclone arrives then they won't be sailing.  If you check a recent La Nina event for Auckland weather e.g. the 2011-12 Summer you will find that the March winds weren't above average however they tended to more East when normally they are Westerly.  If there is an effect it will be during the Challenger series.

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/new-zealand/auckland/historic?month=3&year=2012

Generally the effect of a La Nina is on rain and wind direction not speed.  As the seas are warmer the more easterly component brings more rain and humidity.

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23 minutes ago, uflux said:

The La Niña will change the usual summer conditions in Auckland so the weather could be anything in March. Perfect cyclone window

Yes, read that too, agreed there will should be some moderating effect. Am just hoping there won’t be many races in bizarrely low conditions, and with fluke puffs and shifts across the course. That situation basically negates much of the design and build of these boats’ budgets. 
 

SF was about the most perfect wind machine in recent AC cycles. Bermuda was (yes, surprisingly) at the very low end of the predicted conditions but it was at least a steady breeze. 
 

I remember watching Seattle’s OneWorld race against Oracle on the Gulf in 2003 and how heartbroken I was when OneWorld got suddenly stranded, Oracle picked up a fluke off Rangitoto. It’s not the ideal way that design competitions should be won. 

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9 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

 

A bit half-assed, but that looked like Pete and Blair practicing changing sides to windward each time.

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52 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:


 

I remember watching Seattle’s OneWorld race against Oracle on the Gulf in 2003 and how heartbroken I was when OneWorld got suddenly stranded, Oracle picked up a fluke off Rangitoto. It’s not the ideal way that design competitions should be won. 

Please edit your post and delete this so it is never spoken of again....

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7 minutes ago, XPRO said:

Please edit your post and delete this so it is never spoken of again....

:D But it’s true! The larger point too 

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1 hour ago, mikenz2 said:

 

Interesting to see no grinders involved - so must be all battery-powered hydraulic systems for the foil arms?

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11 minutes ago, Indio said:

Interesting to see no grinders involved - so must be all battery-powered hydraulic systems for the foil arms?

look closer, at least one on each side grinding at different times. STB in the glasses, port with the hat

but yes the foil arm up/down is battery powered so these grinders are simulating something else

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9 minutes ago, Indio said:

Interesting to see no grinders involved - so must be all battery-powered hydraulic systems for the foil arms?

Also where PB & BT are positioned.... If I have learnt anything from these guys over the years, the side swapping act in front of everyone could be a well rehearsed joke.  

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So what are the bumps on the ETNZ mast about 3 metres up?

Camera housings looking back at the crew?

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16 minutes ago, WakaNZ said:

Also where PB & BT are positioned.... If I have learnt anything from these guys over the years, the side swapping act in front of everyone could be a well rehearsed joke.  

Could be for the AC Anarchists' benefit :P

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6 minutes ago, Boybland said:

So what are the bumps on the ETNZ mast about 3 metres up?

Camera housings looking back at the crew?

I believe so.

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8 minutes ago, kenergy said:

I believe so.

I thought this was for the TV coverage and not for the teams benefit

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Anyone see where they're headed? Hopefully the back paddock, I'll be there in about 45 minutes on the car ferry.:P

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1 minute ago, Woolfy said:

Anyone see where they're headed? Hopefully the back paddock, I'll be there in about 45 minutes on the car ferry.:P

Both teams have (BAR and ETNZ) headed around North Head and up the coast somewhere, at which point I lost sight of them.

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1 minute ago, mikenz2 said:

Both teams have (BAR and ETNZ) headed around North Head and up the coast somewhere, at which point I lost sight of them.

Awww nuts:angry:

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

:D But it’s true! The larger point too 

Stingray, it's called "sailboat racing." As in, "that's sailboat racing."

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With regard to crew positioning. From the footage we've seen, after a manoeuver, two guys cross from the leeward side. Seconds later a single guy crosses from the windward side. This looks to be consistent. I'm guessing the two who cross back to windward are Burling and Ashby - so their normal position is on the windward side - helming and trimming. Tuke is the single guy going to leeward where he's flying the boat - which makes sense also.

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Tuke is the single guy going to leeward where he's flying the boat - which makes sense also

Tuke could theoretically manage flight without moving as doesn't he just chase numbers?  But the reason for him crossing I believe is to convey wind and other outputs to Burling and Ashby.  After all that is what makes Tuke and Burling a formidable combination.  There was much play made of the last Cup where the verbal communication (what we were allowed to hear) on ETNZ was a lot less than the other boats.  In my opinion that is because they had specialist roles that require changing sides.

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Tuke could theoretically manage flight without moving as doesn't he just chase numbers? 

In theory yes, but there are 3 guys moving and that seems consistent. Tuke is giving them eyes on the leeward side for puffs etc, whilst being on the side where the foil is submerged seems logical for the flight controller - even if he's just chasing a dot. I think Tuke helms while the other two cross.

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On 11/20/2020 at 10:38 PM, Apterix said:

It looks like a beast and is remarkably well dialled in for the first day on the water.  Not feeling quite so glum about initial impressions now.  

Yep. Muffin Top looks pretty good for her first sail. 

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1 hour ago, MrBump said:

I thought this was for the TV coverage and not for the teams benefit

That's what I heard too. Mandated.

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6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Now back to more important things that do make a difference.  The innovative accumulation of innovations in hull shape, the foils and foil arm differences and the mainsail controls have delivered a package that in 6 knots of wind using a #1 can get up and foiling at 23 knots and manoeuvre at a high standard on day one.  That is impressive regardless of your country bias and I would say the Challengers without exception have wide open eyes and mouths.

To me it looks like on Day one of the new boat ETNZ are already at or beyond the level of the others who have been testing for weeks.  So much for all the negativity around delays and leaving it too late etc etc. 

That says it for me. Very encouraging first impression. Especially after RG's America's Cup Rialto: November 20 - Kiwis throw down the gauntlet  https://www.sail-world.com/news/233299/Americas-Cup-Rialto-Nov-20-Kiwis-first-sail

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19 hours ago, zillafreak said:

Patch smatch. Whatever the fuck it is. Something is there. 

Maybe just some framing or other structure behind an area with thin or no cores, probably supporting the mainsail track. Maybe even distorts more or less with heat from teh sun. Who knows, I was probably wrong about B1 having a busted hull side.

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34 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Looks like some framing there, approx in line with the mainsheet traveler.

P1200174.thumb.JPG.55676dd2e8e3c843ede37e9edbe0f736.JPG

HAHAHAHA, Oh now that's just a hoot isnt it. Why if that doesn't look exactly like the thing that isnt there eh Terrafirma ,fourourselves, Weta, etc etc etc. Smart ass doubters. 

Or maybe you cant see this either? How about if I get out the yellow lines for you.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Oh now that's just hoot isnt it. Why if that doesn't look exactly like the thing that isnt there eh Terrafirma ,fourourselves, Weta, etc etc etc. Smart ass doubters. 

Or maybe you cant see this either? How about if I get out the yellow lines for you.

Going through my photos, it's only visible in my perfectly square on photos with the sun rising behind me. It disappeared as soon as I got off angle, it's a very shallow feature.

 

P1200189 (2).JPG

P1200367 (2).JPG

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4 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Going through my photos, it's only visible in my perfectly square on photos with the sun rising behind me. It disappeared as soon as I got off angle, it's a very shallow feature.

 

P1200189 (2).JPG

P1200367 (2).JPG

It has to be for the magnets. 

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7 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Going through my photos, it's only visible in my perfectly square on photos with the sun rising behind me. It disappeared as soon as I got off angle, it's a very shallow feature.

 

P1200189 (2).JPG

P1200367 (2).JPG

Yes that would have to be the case as you just cant see it from so many angles. Awesome work mikenz!

This is the pic from my original post, that so many dickheads made fun of. How incredibly observant I am :D

1067877874_ScreenShot2020-11-19at8_31_03PM.png.03cdcdc59102d40bcef494fc448273b8.png

 

 

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