Emirates Team New Zealand.

[uflux 580]

wow!

https://www.livesaildie.com/emirates-team-new-zealand-looking-sleek-and-slick/?fbclid=IwAR26lrcJiRbALGXEStPu-n4YQWkuJbgHuvKAVO6fRDXo8kInZ-8vOWAeTTM

[JALhazmat 961]

Picture editor proving a point nicely... 

[Horn Rock 1,209]

^^^ The foot of the Ineos main doesn't look quite as well sorted as Te Rehutai.

[kenergy 480]

4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Picture editor proving a point nicely... 

Yep

[Ex-yachtie 1,484]

4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Just when I thought it was safe to come back to this thread I see ZillaFreak is still going on about nothing.!  Someone please shoot him FFS..! DV him do whatever it takes until he get's it.! 

 

Question for the group:

Is the moment when you feel like you need to correct the spelling in a meme, which has been posted as a complaint about the quality of posts in a forum, the moment when you should just realise you care too much and give in?

[Apterix 85]

23 minutes ago, uflux said:

wow!

https://www.livesaildie.com/emirates-team-new-zealand-looking-sleek-and-slick/?fbclid=IwAR26lrcJiRbALGXEStPu-n4YQWkuJbgHuvKAVO6fRDXo8kInZ-8vOWAeTTM

The wrinkles in the main and jib cant be helping performance.  I'm kind of surprised they're so prominent, but imagine they'll sort them out at some stage if they are a significant issue.    

[kenergy 480]

Just now, Ex-yachtie said:

Question for the group:

Is the moment when you feel like you need to correct the spelling in a meme, which has been posted as a complaint about the quality of posts in a forum, the moment when you should just realise you care too much and give in?

Nope  dont give in, otherwise there the winner and your the looser.

[Ex-yachtie 1,484]

1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Any observations today Weta? It looked very light. Marginal foiling conditions all day and there was another team out there to compare against. 

[Ex-yachtie 1,484]

2 minutes ago, kenergy said:

Nope  dont give in, otherwise there the winner and your the looser.

Thanks. I take great comfort from your post. 

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Just now, Ex-yachtie said:

Thanks. I take great comfort from your post.

Go on correct the sentence.......I know you want to.........

[JALhazmat 961]

18 minutes ago, kenergy said:

Yep

That they captioned all the pictures the same... such attention to detail

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Just now, JALhazmat said:

That they captioned all the pictures the same... such attention to detail

Ken hasn't cottoned on to your sarcasm.....I agree though, the blurb doesn't mean much........Pics say a bit though.

[rh3000 1,502]

Did this get posted already?

The Mange Olsson Foundation has today announced Peter Burling the 2020 winner of its prestigious Magnus Olsson Prize. Awarded annually to an individual who has made an indelible contribution to the world of sailing, previous recipients include Torben Grael, Sir Ben Ainslie, Stan Honey, Santiago Lange, Grant Dalton and Carolijn Brouwer.

https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/487_PETER-BURLING-RECIPIENT-OF-THE-MAGNUS-OLSSON-PRIZE-2020.html

[Indio 796]

26 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Did this get posted already?

The Mange Olsson Foundation has today announced Peter Burling the 2020 winner of its prestigious Magnus Olsson Prize. Awarded annually to an individual who has made an indelible contribution to the world of sailing, previous recipients include Torben Grael, Sir Ben Ainslie, Stan Honey, Santiago Lange, Grant Dalton and Carolijn Brouwer.

https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/487_PETER-BURLING-RECIPIENT-OF-THE-MAGNUS-OLSSON-PRIZE-2020.html

What his Torben Grael doing these days?

[Xlot 709]

44 minutes ago, Indio said:

What his Torben Grael doing these days?

Helming on Bertelli’s vintage yacht(s), among other things

 

 

[Indio 796]

4 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Helming on Bertelli’s vintage yacht(s), among other things

 

 

Thanks. Does he have an official/unofficial role in LR-PPP's AC36 campaign, I wonder? He does have a long history with LR.

[Horn Rock 1,209]

14 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Helming on Bertelli’s vintage yacht(s)

Steering that boat looks like more fun than trimming the main......

[terrafirma 977]

2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Question for the group:

Is the moment when you feel like you need to correct the spelling in a meme, which has been posted as a complaint about the quality of posts in a forum, the moment when you should just realie you care too much and give in?

If you have that much time on your hands please do..! You will sleep better.... 

[Terry Hollis 309]

Emirates Team New Zealand looking sleek and slick

View Larger Image

INEOS Team UK, sailing nearby, was noticeably sticky in the light air and during the session, INEOS was at times flying a Code 0, while ETNZ had only their jib up.

“Te Aihe”, ETNZ’s first and more conservative boat, sailed noticeably bow down, however by comparison “Te Retuhai” seemed to fly in a more level attitude, at times heeled slightly to windward with their bustle just kissing the water, a demonstration of precision flight control we will likely see more of.

Curiously, ETNZ was able to pull off the odd dry gybe while we did not witness INEOS complete one manoeuvre. We saw ETNZ under just main and jib pop up onto the foils a couple of times while INEOS had to be towed up each time.

https://www.livesaildie.com/emirates-team-new-zealand-looking-sleek-and-slick/

[JALhazmat 961]

mmm creases.. deliberate obvs

[Horn Rock 1,209]

This clew box thing looks like it has a lot of solid structure to it. Quite different to anything we've seen from the other teams.

[Sidecar 788]

Looking at NZB2’s T foil and it’s clean single full width flap/aileron makes you wonder if that is a better set up than the gull wing approach, which might have theoretical advantages, but you lose flap area and create a lot of turbulence at each sectional flap/aileron tip?

[MaxHugen 462]

I've been looking at the sails, and thinking about CEs, considering twist and all that stuff...

Then I looked at the bend of the mast - how do they achieve that, without an inner forestay, and the backstay and forestay anchored at basically the same point on the mast ???

[kenergy 480]

7 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Ken hasn't cottoned on to your sarcasm.....I agree though, the blurb doesn't mean much........Pics say a bit though.

I had, my old man was a sports journalist,  I mourn the loss of the craft daily. 

[Forourselves 1,025]

So, its fair to say that those who were saying ETNZ had issues, and 5 weeks off the water would put the Kiwi's well behind the other teams were completely wrong - again.

The same argument that came up last time before the AC50 was launched came up again this time after Te Aihe was retired (temporarily).

ETNZ appears to be as polished as the other teams (at least) despite those teams having a good twenty days sailing in their boat 2.

Just because the doors are closed for an extended period of time, does not mean the team isn't making huge strides.

[Hemi 115]

48 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I've been looking at the sails, and thinking about CEs, considering twist and all that stuff...

Then I looked at the bend of the mast - how do they achieve that, without an inner forestay, and the backstay and forestay anchored at basically the same point on the mast ???

Lots of downhaul?

[MaxHugen 462]

2 minutes ago, Hemi said:

"Lots of downhaul?"... Maybe, but I'm not sure about that, with such a lot of tension on the leech as a result, how would they get the necessary twist into the sail?

[Ex-yachtie 1,484]

4 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

https://www.livesaildie.com/emirates-team-new-zealand-looking-sleek-and-slick/

Josh Junior, looking very much like he might be driving.

Edit: Although he's on the leeward side.

[uflux 580]

How is that boat doing that in that little amount of breeze!!!

https://youtu.be/n4HHslXLd8g

[Priscilla 2,108]

10 minutes ago, uflux said:

How is that boat doing that in that little amount of breeze!!!

https://youtu.be/n4HHslXLd8g

There’s three other syndicates pondering the same conundrum 

[Apterix 85]

 

18 minutes ago, uflux said:

How is that boat doing that in that little amount of breeze!!!

https://youtu.be/n4HHslXLd8g

That is very impressive.  Looks like the kiwis may have focused hard on light air performance yet again. And, with no code zero!

[uflux 580]

1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

"Lots of downhaul?"... Maybe, but I'm not sure about that, with such a lot of tension on the leech as a result, how would they get the necessary twist into the sail?

Look at a windsurf sail the leech loosens with downhaul rather than tightens. The big boys are finally catching up 

 

[uflux 580]

3 minutes ago, Apterix said:

 

That is very impressive.  Looks like the kiwis may have focused hard on light air performance yet again. And, with no code zero!

Their new rig setup is next level the power that rig must be generating!

[MaxHugen 462]

2 minutes ago, uflux said:

Look at a windsurf sail the leech loosens with downhaul rather than tightens. The big boys are finally catching up 

Ah, OK I got it wrong. 

But would the downhaul actually be able to bend the very sustantial mast on the AC75s?

[Sailbydate 2,422]

So, what do you'll think the new horse blinkers on the foil arms are adding?

[uflux 580]

Just now, MaxHugen said:

Ah, OK I got it wrong. 

But would the downhaul actually be able to bend the very sustantial mast on the AC75s?

I guess they have figured it out! Hey special designing it so that their batten can system doesn’t jam with the mast rotation. But that opens a whole new world of low down power and very slippery at the head of the sail as the air flow bends. That could easily be a cup winning setup. Windsurfing discovered The aerodynamic efficiency of it 30 years ago

[atwinda 87]

3 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Ah, OK I got it wrong. 

But would the downhaul actually be able to bend the very sustantial mast on the AC75s?

Loads of runner = bends the mast and also straightens the headstay. Not to say that the Cunningham isn't helping the bend, but it's likely not the primary control to induce it. 

[weta27 4,009]

10 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Any observations today Weta? It looked very light. Marginal foiling conditions all day and there was another team out there to compare against. 

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times, but I still think their handling is a little behind LR and AM.

Te Rehutai was still busy testing I would say, lots of straight lines, at one point spending a long spell sailing in displacement mode. Dan Bernasconi was in a chase boat alongside  taking photos of something at water level as they towed out so I guess there are lots of design details to check and validate.

They were foiling easily but not appearing to push the boat too much. My impression is that this boat sits lower and flatter than Te Aihe and she seems very stable in flight.

The two boats stayed away from each other while I was watching, except for the very end, when both were heading home.

My highlight was getting to say hello to the legend Gilles Martin-Raget, who fetched up beside me with his camera. Seemed like a very nice guy.

[Ex-yachtie 1,484]

31 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

So, what do you'll think the new horse blinkers on the foil arms are adding?

It’s to stop them getting distracted by the other horses. 

[MaxHugen 462]

28 minutes ago, atwinda said:

Loads of runner = bends the mast and also straightens the headstay. Not to say that the Cunningham isn't helping the bend, but it's likely not the primary control to induce it. 

Must be.  Have to put massive loads on those runners, as that is one heck of a mast - 650mm x 400mm... at least lower down, it does taper towards the top.

[atwinda 87]

1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

Must be.  Have to put massive loads on those runners, as that is one heck of a mast - 650mm x 400mm... at least lower down, it does taper towards the top.

I think you are likely underestimating the load they can apply to the runners, and overestimating the stiffness of the rig. 

keep in mind, it may not be bending for and aft because of the rotation.

Also keep in mind that all boats (large and small) bend their rigs to depower the main sail- it essentially "pulls the cloth forward" flattening out the shape... 

[weta27 4,009]

A look at the "clew box" - maybe not as solid as it looks.

[Tommy22 24]

She’s back out on the webcam, might see her in a bit more wind today if it comes up like it’s meant to

[Ex-yachtie 1,484]

1 minute ago, weta27 said:

A look at the "clew box" - maybe not as solid as it looks.

Josh Junior holding the helm again here after a tack.

[weta27 4,009]

6 minutes ago, Tommy22 said:

She’s back out on the webcam

Interesting that they already have her prep time from dropping in the water to dock-out down to about an hour, about 1/2 an hour less than for Te Aihe I think?

But then they seem to take longer to get the main down at the end of the day, with the new "clew box" requiring lots of attention before they can drop.

[Horn Rock 1,209]

3 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Josh Junior holding the helm again here after a tack.

Yeah looking at the latest vid from Airflow, Josh Junior is on the Port side - steers while Ashby/Burling cross. Ashby goes to the very front of the front pod, and he's looking backward up at the main. Josh Junior turns around to grind after Burling is in. Then Tuke goes across to the leeward side. Josh doesn't cross afaik, so I think Andy Maloney is doing the same thing on the starboard side.

[weta27 4,009]

 

[weta27 4,009]

Pretty sure now that there is no boom. Great to watch it all working in that video

[Lickindip 496]

^ fuckme if that's the size of their light wind foils ... the other teams have a lot of catching up to do

[Horn Rock 1,209]

7 minutes ago, weta27 said:

the new "clew box" requiring lots of attention before they can drop.

There looks to be so much going on, as in all those lines from the bottom of the clew box back to the traveller. Must take a bit of dismantling. She's always clean on the tow back, so it looks like they're keeping hidden their clew box trickery.

[Lickindip 496]

are we seeing this on LR or other teams?

[chesirecat 440]

1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

Ah, OK I got it wrong. 

But would the downhaul actually be able to bend the very sustantial mast on the AC75s?

The Tornado has a semi rotating mast and uses extensive downhaul to control twist and bend. 470's and the ilk use rig tension and downhaul/outhaul for mast bend.

[Lat35sowth 60]

Music's a bit 007ish.

[Priscilla 2,108]

Main sheets or links to mast base rotation control.

 

[Horn Rock 1,209]

5 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Pretty sure now that there is no boom. Great to watch it all working in that video

Nice view of the traveller movement - starts right out then bought in etc. You can see Burling watching it - I think he's controlling it - the traveller that is.....

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Another thing from that traveller footage is that they're using the entire width of the spillway - which is wider than all the other boats - meaning they've got greater sheeting angles. Not a big deal once up and flying, but might figure in the prestart.

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Okay I'm on a roll with that clip. Watch the main sheet as it first sheets on - there's this metal piece that clunks down (1:11) - maybe leech tension?

Gotta say that whole setup is a very slick bit of tech, and seems to be a leap in sophistication from what we can see on the others - LR notwithstanding as we can't tell much about their setup. 

[Priscilla 2,108]

43 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Pretty sure now that there is no boom. Great to watch it all working in that video

No not dents in the topsides  but crease lines in the green band beat that Zilla.

[Horn Rock 1,209]

There's a controllable diagonal batten running up from the clew box. Actually I think there's more than one. In the clip you can see subtle camber adjustments as well.

[Kate short for Bob 241]

49 minutes ago, weta27 said:

 

Fuck that looks good!

Looks like the helmsman and trimmers are in positions 3 and 6 (counting from the stern) of each pod.  Mainsail trimmer in position 6.  Possibly the flight trimmer and helmsman swap positions during tacks?

[RMac 297]

I think the line running fwd is the reverse outhaul (don't call it an inhaul) which changes the angle of the mainsheet, essentially when it's trimmed on it chokes the lead fwd, which means the mainsheet is giving more tension into the leech than the foot. If you ease it off, the foot gets tighter.

Gotta say I like their setup better than my idea from the LR boomless discussion. That is simple and slick. 

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Another pic of the diagonals.

[weta27 4,009]

Aren't those creases Horny? Watch the video, they come and go.

[Horn Rock 1,209]

1 minute ago, weta27 said:

Aren't those creases Horny? Watch the video, they come and go.

They could be creases, but they seem to come up in the same places - are well defined, and seem to coincide with little camber changes.

[rh3000 1,502]

1 hour ago, weta27 said:

 

Fuck me... the music certainly adds to it, but it feels like this is slow-mo footage at the start... except its not, seeing the boat gather speed, adjust foil to rotate hull as it brings on more righting moment, and then just starts climbing out of the water is pretty amazing...

Starting to really love the thinking behind B2

[meanermachine 153]

Watching that latest airflow video I am a convert to B2. It looks like an absolute weapon.

Still too early to draw any real conclusions but so far it looks pretty promising!

The new shape makes sense when you see it in that kind of light wind

[NZL3481 372]

2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Yeah looking at the latest vid from Airflow, Josh Junior is on the Port side - steers while Ashby/Burling cross. Ashby goes to the very front of the front pod, and he's looking backward up at the main. Josh Junior turns around to grind after Burling is in. Then Tuke goes across to the leeward side. Josh doesn't cross afaik, so I think Andy Maloney is doing the same thing on the starboard side.

They're both more than capable of driving...

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Thought I'd post this here since we're looking at the clew setups. Certainly a very clean setup from LR. Not nearly as much "stuff" like ETNZ's. Main looks very nice.

[rh3000 1,502]

2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Yeah looking at the latest vid from Airflow, Josh Junior is on the Port side - steers while Ashby/Burling cross. Ashby goes to the very front of the front pod, and he's looking backward up at the main. Josh Junior turns around to grind after Burling is in. Then Tuke goes across to the leeward side. Josh doesn't cross afaik, so I think Andy Maloney is doing the same thing on the starboard side.

I recall a comment on here the other day suggesting that you aren't legally allowed to cross infront of the mast, but I've just re-read the class rules, and it appears you certainly can.

Basically you need to stay within the back 9m (~mast point) of the boat unless crossing, handling sails or trying to fish Outteridge, where you have a 2m window, but if you go more than 11m forward you then need a tether.

Therefor I think any crosses for ETNZ will happen on front of the mast.

 

 

[Afrayedknot 32]

21 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Thought I'd post this here since we're looking at the clew setups. Certainly a very clean setup from LR. Not nearly as much "stuff" like ETNZ's. Main looks very nice.

Can someone point to me where the magnets are? No main sheet visible so it must be magnets...

[Kate short for Bob 241]

17 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

I recall a comment on here the other day suggesting that you aren't legally allowed to cross infront of the mast, but I've just re-read the class rules, and it appears you certainly can.

Basically you need to stay within the back 9m (~mast point) of the boat unless crossing, handling sails or trying to fish Outteridge, where you have a 2m window, but if you go more than 11m forward you then need a tether.

Therefor I think any crosses for ETNZ will happen on front of the mast.

 

 

Hence those that move being more forward in the crew positions than they were in Bermuda (not that I'm apparently allowed to compare to Bermuda).  From my observation they are in positions 3 and 6 with 6 being closest to the mast.  Which from a COG perspective would limit the impacts of shifting weight.

[Mozzy Sails 460]

1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Another pic of the diagonals.

Aren't these diagonals in  a completely different place to the last set of battens you saw?

Pretty sure they are creases! 

[Horn Rock 1,209]

5 minutes ago, Afrayedknot said:

Can someone point to me where the magnets are? No main sheet visible so it must be magnets...

The magnets are in your anus.....or is that maggots?

[Horn Rock 1,209]

Just now, Mozzy Sails said:

Pretty sure they are creases! 

I'm not sure......there looks to be some structure in there....maybe...possibly.......I'm hopeful.........

[Mozzy Sails 460]

okay. Could be. The previous set of structures were running more along the foot, rather than diagonal, i thought. But I could have been looking at different lines on the sails. 

Those lines to the mast look like the 'spanner' systems. Or linked to it.

INEOS are rotating the mast with the boom. I think Luna Rosa were using that big plate on the mast foot we saw on the old mast. God know what they are doing now. 

[Mozzy Sails 460]

3 hours ago, weta27 said:

A look at the "clew box" - maybe not as solid as it looks.

 

Not wanting to start another 'there be lines on the hull' debate. But looks like the where the main tracks go in to the pod the cover above doesn't quite sit flush. Do you think these could pop up to allow a greater range of traveller? Holding leach and foot tension out to wider sheeting angles.

Something INEOS seemed to struggle with on their boomless set up. Once you get to the end of that track, it becomes very hard to ease the sheeting angle without dumping loads of depth in to the main at the same time. 

[Kate short for Bob 241]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123487135/americas-cup-team-new-zealands-clever-new-systems-emerge?cid=app-android

Helmsman Peter Burling, wing controller Glenn Ashy and flight controller Blair Tuke are still changing sides while the grinders remain static.

But their moves now see them darting around in front of the mast rather than across the stern of the boat as they were doing on their first generation boat Te Aihe.

Burling has also shifted his steering position further forward, now situated between two grinding stations.

This will allow him a more smooth ride away from the G-forces hitting the back of the boat during the high speed turns.

It also gives him easier access to the mast zone for his transitions to the windward side of the boat during these turns.

[Kiwing 290]

Could they spread the mast sides somehow, to allow the curve to be more possible?

Or have they weakened the mast to allow it and stand the risk of the mast breaking?

[terrafirma 977]

So what wind strength was there when they took off.? 

[terrafirma 977]

5 hours ago, weta27 said:

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times, but I still think their handling is a little behind LR and AM.

Te Rehutai was still busy testing I would say, lots of straight lines, at one point spending a long spell sailing in displacement mode. Dan Bernasconi was in a chase boat alongside  taking photos of something at water level as they towed out so I guess there are lots of design details to check and validate.

They were foiling easily but not appearing to push the boat too much. My impression is that this boat sits lower and flatter than Te Aihe and she seems very stable in flight.

The two boats stayed away from each other while I was watching, except for the very end, when both were heading home.

My highlight was getting to say hello to the legend Gilles Martin-Raget, who fetched up beside me with his camera. Seemed like a very nice guy.

Good stuff Weta..! Did you slip Gilles a usb zip drive to share some photos with you? 

 

[Kate short for Bob 241]

8 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

So what wind strength was there when they took off.? 

At the bottom of the range - around 6 knots or less.  Thats probably why the other teams are now shitting themselves.

[MrBump 57]

10 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

So what wind strength was there when they took off.? 

the gilles video? Ive seen elsewhere reports that they could foil in 5-7 knots (reported speeds in excess of 30 kts). Looks pretty consistent with the footage 

[Stingray~ 1,262]

6 hours ago, weta27 said:

My highlight was getting to say hello to the legend Gilles Martin-Raget, who fetched up beside me with his camera. Seemed like a very nice guy.

You guys are in for some competition, GMR must have some amazing kit and (obviously) talent. Who is he working for, Prada? 

[KiwiJoker 317]

6 hours ago, weta27 said:

 

My highlight was getting to say hello to the legend Gilles Martin-Raget, who fetched up beside me with his camera. Seemed like a very nice guy. 

Glad you could hook up. "Nice guy" is understating it. Cool, calm and very competent.  A great eye and a tiger for work.

[zillafreak 77]

5 hours ago, Priscilla said:

No not dents in the topsides  but crease lines in the green band beat that Zilla.

Dont know what creases you mean, all I see is a reflection 

[terrafirma 977]

Nice video of B2 sailing in light conditions. She looks good has a little splash down but other than that looks the goods.! 

 

[terrafirma 977]

25 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

At the bottom of the range - around 6 knots or less.  Thats probably why the other teams are now shitting themselves.

Wow..! 

[Kate short for Bob 241]

1 minute ago, terrafirma said:

Wow..! 

Yeah and on day one of the new setup!