Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

the one about the design teams saying the AC75 has major design flaws.

Well they do have a flaw.  At 20 minutes the races will be far too short.  2.2 nautical miles in 3 minutes......

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14 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Well they do have a flaw.  At 20 minutes the races will be far too short.  2.2 nautical miles in 3 minutes......

we've sent laser 4.7's on longer courses..... little barrier should be a wing mark

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13 minutes ago, 167149 said:

we've sent laser 4.7's on longer courses..... little barrier should be a wing mark

Yeah.  Down at the Yacht Club at the moment and we suggested a hen and chicken mark little barrier great barrier colville waiheke home course.  Still pick NZ to win but one hell of a course!

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day race ... Bay of islands .. and back

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On 11/17/2020 at 7:10 PM, Indio said:

At least Argentina have now busted their duck against the mighty All Blacks.

 

Will Argentina  make it 2 for 2 this weekend?

How  are the confidence levels down there for avoiding 3 losses in a row?

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8 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Nothing sticky here...

Amazing way the it picks up power and speed. Notice the way the heel to windward comes on when the leeward foil starts to generate lift. 

Looking at the ETNZ underbody compared with Ineos it seems that in addition to the end plate affect and lower wetted surface as the boat starts to lift on the bustle, the concave cathedral hull shape on ETNZ would be creating an aircushion effect almost like a hovercraft. The stepped hull of INEOS might reduce wetted surface, but does not create an air cushion. Roll on December 16th

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Will Argentina  make it 2 for 2 this weekend?

How  are the confidence levels down there for avoiding 3 losses in a row?

wont mind either way, if it's to be 3 in a row it could well be a blessing in disquise

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1 minute ago, 167149 said:

wont mind either way, if it's to be 3 in a row it could well be a blessing in disquise

You think if they do that's the end of Robertson?

Can they afford to buy out his contract?

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

 

You think if they do that's the end of Robertson?

Can they afford to buy out his contract?

think you're a tad off there, razor is waiting in the shadows still, it's the other bloke running things right now.... Ian Foster

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10 minutes ago, 167149 said:

think you're a tad off there, razor is waiting in the shadows still, it's the other bloke running things right now.... Ian Foster

You are of course correct, what I meant to say was

You think if they do that's the end of Foster?

Can they afford to buy out his contract so they can bring Robertson in?

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14 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey going to be a cracker Xmas AC Vendee Jules Verne it's all on.

Yep. And don't forget that World Famous in Australia, Sydney 2 Hobart on Boxing Day. I think it's still on....  ;-)

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yep. And don't forget that World Famous in Australia, Sydney 2 Hobart on Boxing Day. I think it's still on....  ;-)

Wee bit remiss on my behalf Sail my humble apologies but in my defence I was foiling off from reality.

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3 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Amazing way the it picks up power and speed. Notice the way the heel to windward comes on when the leeward foil starts to generate lift. 

Looking at the ETNZ underbody compared with Ineos it seems that in addition to the end plate affect and lower wetted surface as the boat starts to lift on the bustle, the concave cathedral hull shape on ETNZ would be creating an aircushion effect almost like a hovercraft. The stepped hull of INEOS might reduce wetted surface, but does not create an air cushion. Roll on December 16th

+1 my thoughts as well

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4 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Looking at the ETNZ underbody compared with Ineos it seems that in addition to the end plate affect and lower wetted surface as the boat starts to lift on the bustle, the concave cathedral hull shape on ETNZ would be creating an aircushion effect almost like a hovercraft

The whole hull is shaped to be a wing in ground effect aerofoil - with the “concave cathedral” (great description) hull shape channeling air underneath the hull.

the more lift the hull can generate, the less the foils have to - reducing drag 

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12 hours ago, Wandering Geo said:

From Weta Photo below. It is in the water at times. Has to be max sticky when it is.

boom2.jpg.d07c4c67aa32e2b486f5cf132539d779.jpg

The boat was stopped. Even then, you can see that the stern underside is not flat - see the side - it's gently curved.

Once under power, most of the stern is out of the water.

Not sticky.

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6 minutes ago, weta27 said:

The boat was stopped. Even then, you can see that the stern underside is not flat - see the side - it's gently curved.

Once under power, most of the stern is out of the water.

Not sticky.

They roll slightly windward or leeward as they transition. At that stage, the stern is as dry as a monk's manuscript.

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8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Will Argentina  make it 2 for 2 this weekend?

How  are the confidence levels down there for avoiding 3 losses in a row?

Since we got kicked out of RWC-JPN, in a way I hope we lose to the Pumas to drive another nail in Foster's coffin! But alas it won't happen - there will be some fireworks in the first 10 minutes tonight. We don't do losing very well...

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5 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

You are of course correct, what I meant to say was

You think if they do that's the end of Foster?

Can they afford to buy out his contract so they can bring Robertson in?

Foster would have performance milestones in his contract which would define whether there needs to be any "buying out". In fact, I rather fancy a three-strikes-and-fuck-off clause but we're far too nice for that. They'll just announce he's leaving to pursue other "challenges" which means the Poms will hire him next :D

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On 11/27/2020 at 10:05 AM, Forourselves said:

When the courses were announced, they were all available, hence the announcement. Only after the announcement, In January, the Port and harbourmaster wrote to the teams adding restrictions.

What clause of the agreement did the harbourmaster invoke?

What kind of shit-ass agreement to use a shipping channel for a major international sporting event lets the harbourmaster come back 2 years later & just say 'you can't use the course' like that?

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5 minutes ago, hoom said:

What clause of the agreement did the harbourmaster invoke?

What kind of shit-ass agreement to use a shipping channel for a major international sporting event lets the harbourmaster come back 2 years later & just say 'you can't use the course' like that?

NZ government, local government, and bureaucracy are a fucking clown show. And that's an insult to clowns.

There's still a reasonable chance the shipping lanes will get shut down and replaced by a cycleway before March.

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32 minutes ago, Nutta said:

NZ government, local government, and bureaucracy are a fucking clown show. And that's an insult to clowns.

There's still a reasonable chance the shipping lanes will get shut down and replaced by a cycleway before March.

yes but they HAVE to be a fucking clown show to land so much of their "teamsports" horse shit on such a small population,

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B2  looks fucking fast. it's gonna be tough for whatever challenger has to face them.

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10 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

B2 be hard to sandbag back to the others !!??

One option is to simply be so fast that they can’t compare themselves against you any time after the first half of the first beat, and spend the next two months trying to guess. All the while you stick your good foils on the boat and go faster again. 

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11 hours ago, winchfodder said:

e, the concave cathedral hull shape on ETNZ would be creating an aircushion effect almost like a hovercraft

Maybe not concave :

11.6 At any transverse cross-section through the hull lower surface:
(a) no horizontal line shall cut the cross-section more than twice; and

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11 minutes ago, barfy said:

Maybe not concave :

11.6 At any transverse cross-section through the hull lower surface:
(a) no horizontal line shall cut the cross-section more than twice; and

NO not that simple the hull can be concave and is (i think) just not in relation to a horizontal line when the hull is sitting flat!  ....  If you think on it for a moment any sort of keel will make the bottom a concave surface at some angle. what the rule prevents is any sort of cathedral (or catamaran) shape

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17 minutes ago, breezie said:

NO not that simple the hull can be concave and is (i think) just not in relation to a horizontal line when the hull is sitting flat!  ....  If you think on it for a moment any sort of keel will make the bottom a concave surface at some angle. what the rule prevents is any sort of cathedral (or catamaran) shape

Exacta-montly! :D

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17 minutes ago, Varan said:

She sure is pretty.

Still can't get my head around that muffin top foredeck. 

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8 hours ago, weta27 said:

The boat was stopped. Even then, you can see that the stern underside is not flat - see the side - it's gently curved.

Once under power, most of the stern is out of the water.

Not sticky.

Weta27 (thanks for all the photos by the way),  I ain't convinced, to much turbulent wake to be stopped. If there is ever a displacement race or period of race (ie not enough wind to foil) I think this boat will struggle .

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Link please? Interesting 

 

4 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

B2 mods 

Screenshot_20201128-130803_Facebook.jpg

Nice bit of Australian design that, you'd never guess the platform started out as a pocket cruise boat.

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^Looks like, Lord Darth Vader's helmet

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35 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Still can't get my head around that muffin top foredeck. 

B2 to me, has an American Muscle Car feel...... 

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Have anyone had actual eyes on the sailing the last couple of days?? Not the usual info sifting through. I would be good to get more of a gauge on how ETNZ is going.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Still can't get my head around that muffin top foredeck. 

Similar nose to F1 cars

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1 hour ago, fish7yu said:

B2 to me, has an American Muscle Car feel...... 

Yeah. I think I can see the DNA, fish. ;-)

2020 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye

Dodge-Hellcat.jpg

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1 hour ago, uflux said:

Have anyone had actual eyes on the sailing the last couple of days?? Not the usual info sifting through. I would be good to get more of a gauge on how ETNZ is going.

She looks bitchin' and a little less ugly than when she first splashed. :-)

Weta27 has had eyes on her. What's the form, mate?

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2 hours ago, Varan said:

She sure is pretty.

The AC75 ain't bad either!

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Weta27 has had eyes on her. What's the form, mate?

Haven't seen much sailing the last two days, except for (yesterday) LR and ETNZ flying out to training way down the back somewhere.

They are training out of range of my lens and often towing back in, or coming home early (in which case I've missed them).

Pretty low strike rate at the moment - need to up my game. :(

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11 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Haven't seen much sailing the last two days, except for (yesterday) LR and ETNZ flying out to training way down the back somewhere.

They are training out of range of my lens and often towing back in, or coming home early (in which case I've missed them).

Pretty low strike rate at the moment - need to up my game. :(

:D

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Haven't seen much sailing the last two days, except for (yesterday) LR and ETNZ flying out to training way down the back somewhere.

They are training out of range of my lens and often towing back in, or coming home early (in which case I've missed them).

Pretty low strike rate at the moment - need to up my game. :(

Need to start a GoFundMe page... for a stink boat that can do at least 50 knots.  :)

Or become best mates with someone who already has one...

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Haven't seen much sailing the last two days, except for (yesterday) LR and ETNZ flying out to training way down the back somewhere.

They are training out of range of my lens and often towing back in, or coming home early (in which case I've missed them).

Pretty low strike rate at the moment - need to up my game. :(

It wasn’t a dig mate. We all appreciate your dedication to the cause! Just itch feet for some info :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Still can't get my head around that muffin top foredeck. 

Why not ??? 

It says to the airflow "go underneath me .... go underneath me ... and if you can't, slide across my smooth, nicely curved topsides" 

so many words that it says ... none of which say muffin top ... all of which say slinky and sexy 

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5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Still can't get my head around that muffin top foredeck. 

Digs her nose in  ......  water off the duck's back!

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7 hours ago, breezie said:

NO not that simple the hull can be concave and is (i think) just not in relation to a horizontal line when the hull is sitting flat!  ....  If you think on it for a moment any sort of keel will make the bottom a concave surface at some angle. what the rule prevents is any sort of cathedral (or catamaran) shape

Yup. You Salty and Max are all onto it.  From a standing start, heel the boat to windward to halve the wetted area aft and create a tunnel effect, and they're off like the whore's drawers.  Can't wait to see this design perform in anger, getting up and going in six knots of air.

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Talked to a bro who did a bunch of math for this thing.  Sounds like they are a bit surprised and subsequently barred up about the hull and foils, but more so about their control over the main. 

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Yeah. I think I can see the DNA, fish. ;-)

2020 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye

Dodge-Hellcat.jpg

That's junk! This is more B2'ish

image.thumb.png.c190915efb0ea407ae3bdd731a9bc601.png

Chiron.webp

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5 minutes ago, I ride bikes said:

Talked to a bro who did a bunch of math for this thing.  Sounds like they are a bit surprised and subsequently barred up about the hull and foils, but more so about their control over the main. 

Barred up??

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it's all about the difference between wood and rubber for boating

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1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

Barred up??

Resisting the urge to knock one out over their collective key boards.. 

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Paywall, but anyway, Heaven help!


America's Cup whistleblowers Tom Mayo and Grant Calder say they feared for their safety after Grant Dalton branded them 'spies'

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/americas-cup-whistleblowers-tom-mayo-and-grant-calder-say-they-feared-for-their-safety-after-grant-dalton-branded-them-spies/FRLGNAOAPIXUXQERWFDEIBCEXE/

Just read the thing with "Bypass Paywalls". Phew, this is belonging to worst journalism I've ever encountered, straight out of Trump's new media handbook. No evidence, unfounded accusations disguised with question marks, and victim playing. Ouch.

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:07 AM, Priscilla said:

Nothing sticky here...

Amazing way the it picks up power and speed. Notice the way the heel to windward comes on when the leeward foil starts to generate lift. 

Interesting comment in Tip&Shaft designers interview that in order to "take off" the AC75's have to sail at 90° apparent before slowly winding up to close hauled foiling.

That will make the two minute prestarts pretty weird.

I guess if there is sufficient wind to foil you cream into the box and dance around keeping as clear of the opposition as possible then take a timed run at the line hoping you are not early, foiling all the time.

Alternatively, especially if you believe (as it looks like ETNZ can do) that you can be the fastest to get up on the foils and then wind up to close hauled,  then you can try and block the opposition to force them off the foils, then lift off and leave them in your wake.

Either way it is very likely that there will be major time differences at the windward mark. This will not be a match racing America's Cup, speed kills.

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12 hours ago, weta27 said:

DSC_2074.JPG

DSC_2083.JPG

Is the line and tackle from the mast camera (?) mounts to the foredeck a common thing when towing?  Haven't noticed the curving black line just forward of the foil in other pics, just an errant line or something else? 

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8 hours ago, kiwi39 said:

Why not ??? 

It says to the airflow "go underneath me .... go underneath me ... and if you can't, slide across my smooth, nicely curved topsides" 

so many words that it says ... none of which say muffin top ... all of which say slinky and sexy 

Would have been fun to watch the Kiwi's pile on to how ugly this thing is if any of the other teams would have made this. 

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4 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Would have been fun to watch the Kiwi's pile on to how ugly this thing is if any of the other teams would have made this. 

Would be nice if you said something worthwhile for once instead of throwing shade at Kiwi's all the time.

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Would be nice if you said something worthwhile for once instead of throwing shade at Kiwi's all the time.

That's not why I'm here, but you know I love you anyway.

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11 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Would have been fun to watch the Kiwi's pile on to how ugly this thing is if any of the other teams would have made this. 

Here in the home of the Cup we call a spade a spade and a dog a dog not sure what non Cup holders call them would you care to inform us.

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8 hours ago, Indio said:

That's junk! This is more B2'ish

image.thumb.png.c190915efb0ea407ae3bdd731a9bc601.png

Chiron.webp

Not bad for a French rocket ship. Shame about the entry level, $3 million price tag.

But just another VW to drool over. ;-)

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3 hours ago, ctutmark said:

Haven't noticed the curving black line just forward of the foil in other pics, just an errant line or something else? 

Shadow from the tow line.

Noticed also that even when towing, the foil tips were regularly breaking the surface.

foiltip.jpg

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13 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Shadow from the tow line.

Noticed also that even when towing, the foil tips were regularly breaking the surface.

foiltip.jpg

Not so sure Weta definitely a massive crack structurally she’s fucked all is lost Zilla will be along shortly to confirm.

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5 hours ago, winchfodder said:

 

I guess if there is sufficient wind to foil you cream into the box and dance around keeping as clear of the opposition as possible then take a timed run at the line hoping you are not early, foiling all the time.

Alternatively, especially if you believe (as it looks like ETNZ can do) that you can be the fastest to get up on the foils and then wind up to close hauled,  then you can try and block the opposition to force them off the foils, then lift off and leave them in your wake.

Either way it is very likely that there will be major time differences at the windward mark. This will not be a match racing America's Cup, speed kills.

The above makes sense to me but a lot of unknowns especially with the virtual keep clear shape of the boats.

One thing the last cup in particular showed is that although with the foiling and speed considerations you’d expect a conservative “timed run” approach, with the calibre of these sailors they’ll probably have a go in the pre start even with these monsters.

Anyway, question - have the teams been spotted doing pre start drills? Possibly one of the things being hidden on those trips out behind the islands? Or kept for the sim?

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3 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Would have been fun to watch the Kiwi's pile on to how ugly this thing is if any of the other teams would have made this. 

Some, maybe, but Not this kiwi.

These boats are all beautiful and interesting in their own ways. 

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6 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Amazing way the it picks up power and speed. Notice the way the heel to windward comes on when the leeward foil starts to generate lift. 

Interesting comment in Tip&Shaft designers interview that in order to "take off" the AC75's have to sail at 90° apparent before slowly winding up to close hauled foiling.

That will make the two minute prestarts pretty weird.

I guess if there is sufficient wind to foil you cream into the box and dance around keeping as clear of the opposition as possible then take a timed run at the line hoping you are not early, foiling all the time.

Alternatively, especially if you believe (as it looks like ETNZ can do) that you can be the fastest to get up on the foils and then wind up to close hauled,  then you can try and block the opposition to force them off the foils, then lift off and leave them in your wake.

Either way it is very likely that there will be major time differences at the windward mark. This will not be a match racing America's Cup, speed kills.

It’s fundamentally a boat race. Fastest wins. 
 

notwithstanding Burling discovering some match race Mojo, it’s part of how they won the last cup. 
 

yes, from a spectators perspective an arm wrestle would be awesome to watch, but the sailors will want a faster boat every day and twice on Sundays

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13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

AC75TeRehutaiDraftCadV1.thumb.png.d58ee12ec89ddae27cbe1a535bb4da40.png

Hmm maybe not...

Ac75_Ineos_RBS_Launch_Bow1_16102020.thumb.jpg.5a2830fc164da1c19fc1deeffa48f3af.jpg

I’d give my left gnad to see the CFD models of how much lift these hulls produce when they’re airborne in ground effect. 

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Shadow from the tow line.

Noticed also that even when towing, the foil tips were regularly breaking the surface.

foiltip.jpg

Shadow from the forestay would be my guess if it is a shadow

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10 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I'd say ZERO ground effect.

At 50+ AWS and a hull that big there is a touch of it for certain. 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

AC75TeRehutaiDraftCadV1.thumb.png.d58ee12ec89ddae27cbe1a535bb4da40.png

Hmm maybe not...

Ac75_Ineos_RBS_Launch_Bow1_16102020.thumb.jpg.5a2830fc164da1c19fc1deeffa48f3af.jpg

I definitely LIKE the kiwi boat more now that you can see it sailing and imagine how it's bending the air around it, but even it wins and I love the thing, it's never going to be aesthetically anything but an affront.  

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2 hours ago, weta27 said:

Shadow from the tow line.

Noticed also that even when towing, the foil tips were regularly breaking the surface.

foiltip.jpg

Minimising drag? Makes sense.

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