Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

By your dysfunctional logic, Ineos is obscenely overfunded.

There doesn't seem to a lot of bang for buck going on. The shed looks nice though...

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes of course it’s hard but why let as big a factor as ‘luck’ into the game? There’s no such thing as an all-conditions winner, every boat has its sweet spot. And if they have kit for various sweet spots then why not let them choose the kit as late as they want to, come race day? 
 

What we saw these past few days is a perfect demonstration of that. Some teams went out with what turned out to be the wrong sails and foils, and so they simply bailed. Boring! 

Why limit it to foils? How about boats too?

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4 hours ago, dullers said:

So when they run from one side of the boat to the other they take their IPADS with them?

Would it not be wonderful if someone far in the future could invent a a thingy that the IPAD could sit in and more or less do the same thing as Team Middle East is doing. It would have to hold it in position somehow. Perhaps research could start now so our grand children could benefit form a thingy that holds the screen in place. 

It appears that Team Middle East have solved this major issue that blights all screens and maybe in the next 20 years release this invention to the rest of the world? It is shocking that such a device exists here and now! What next, some sort of holder for cups appearing on a Kiwi boat at the next AC?(Tea cups before you get carried away)

I used to have a device on my last boat with a screen in it that could be read in bright light. It was on my cot pit bulkhead  near the wheel (Thank God that has been invented) and could be read with out squinting in all sorts of day light. I thought this was common knowledge in the West?

I sold Jimmy Spithill his bottle holders.  He went with my recommendation of sidepull cages for his particular application, clear performance advantage which he didn't know about.

Am I a traitor? 

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I wonder who will front from ETNZ at 10 in the morning when the skippers front the media. I'm picking Glen Ashby is still the skipper - he's been fronting most interviews.

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6 hours ago, Indio said:

By your dysfunctional logic, Ineos is obscenely overfunded.

You honestly think GD was scratching around under the sofa for spare change? 
 

He blew 3mil to a scammer and didn’t fucking blink, don’t tell me they are the paupers of this show. Lol 

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45 minutes ago, Indio said:

I wonder who will front from ETNZ at 10 in the morning when the skippers front the media. I'm picking Glen Ashby is still the skipper - he's been fronting most interviews.

Send the Aussie out to explain the loss to AM.. so quick to throw him under the bus.. terrible.   ;-) 

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1 hour ago, I ride bikes said:

I sold Jimmy Spithill his bottle holders.  He went with my recommendation of sidepull cages for his particular application, clear performance advantage which he didn't know about.

Am I a traitor? 

Damn straight! Burn the witch! Burn the witch! LOL!

What was he like? I am guessing away from the cameras where he throws an act on he would be a pretty decent sort.

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1 hour ago, I ride bikes said:

I sold Jimmy Spithill his bottle holders.  He went with my recommendation of sidepull cages for his particular application, clear performance advantage which he didn't know about.

Am I a traitor? 

Nah you done good selling him the one with the PFD.

71ADDQaArpL._SL1348_.thumb.jpg.d17b65294bee960a65d4321c34e3bf01.jpg

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36 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Send the Aussie out to explain the loss to AM.. so quick to throw him under the bus.. terrible.   ;-) 

Just send Pete out and he can use his famous line "Good to finally see a bit of fight out of these boys"

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Just send Pete out and he can use his famous line "Good to finally see a bit of fight out of these boys"

After he did a swear the other day he isn’t allowed out in front of the cameras, he is back in the shed for a software update and behavioural therapy 

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2 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

After he did a swear the other day he isn’t allowed out in front of the cameras, he is back in the shed for a software update and behavioural therapy 

Truth be told, more like a feed of Fish n Chips and a couple of Steiny's.

 

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9 minutes ago, kenergy said:

As usual Weta, your photos are amazing. Thanks for sharing them. 

Agreed - Thanks Weta. 

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

I wonder who will front from ETNZ at 10 in the morning when the skippers front the media. I'm picking Glen Ashby is still the skipper - he's been fronting most interviews.

He's not - according to some of the Team output so far anyway......

Some crew positions and race officials have to turn up at events, others come at the request of COR

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NmE0MzU1NTI2MDI5NjIyYg

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12 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Gotta love that sea colour.

14616BF9-0F7E-4770-A250-8B1EBAAF83D3.jpeg.ad063cd800d86d5925980aa22a55c78f.jpeg6744EC10-7008-4433-8C12-D2A2A3D175A4.thumb.jpeg.ccb6766a6ac6ececbb4199ef0f91fd3e.jpeg

Was out fishing this morning at about 21 metres, off Ocean Beach, Mangawhai Heads. I swear I thought I could see the bottom, the water was that clear.

(9 snapper and 3 gurnard)

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Send the Aussie out to explain the loss to AM.. so quick to throw him under the bus.. terrible.   ;-) 

The only team throwing team members under the buses will be Ineos when they finish last in the Xmas Cup and Prada CSS.

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Weta - these are awesome photos. Careful though, you're getting close to 'doing a Giles' and maybe revealing more than they want...!

Noticed some things in the Leech Box photo;

1. This looks like battens in each skin attached to the diagonal clew battens which seem to part of a the more structural/solid clew plate behind that seam in the mainsail. Would love to see what else is going on under there....

2. Is this the line that extends from the mast base 'spanner'? If so it seems odd that they both terminate at this single point on the ram - this can't induce much individual camber into each of the skins independently and also would seem to put a lot of shear on the ram. I'm certain I'm missing something here as I reckon ETNZ trusted this to someone with more qualifications than I..... unless it's just there to hold the clew up onto centreline and stop it falling to leeward?

3. This lower foot batten looks pretty 'prototype' and I reckon we'll see a much more refined system either for Xmas regatta or the Cup.

4. As above - a lot of chafe on these lines over the edge of the traveller recess, seems like a work in progress with a cleaner solution in the pipeline.

As a whole this mainsail system is insane - whether or not other teams have as much complexity is all speculation but getting shots like these makes all the other sniping and bullshit worthwhile! I reckon when they do make the next round of changes there'll be at least an extra Velcro-on cover to keep it out of view of prying lenses...

LeechBox1.jpg

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7 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Dummers it's 2am in the UK mate... Or are you keeping Florida time perchance...

Now this is A true story. Dummers talks Shit about UK pubs to establish credibility, spews more posts than spewbot in his first week of life, and calls etnz team middle east. They did need a name, but this was his last nickname. FO smack daddy

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Damn straight! Burn the witch! Burn the witch! LOL!

What was he like? I am guessing away from the cameras where he throws an act on he would be a pretty decent sort.

He was decent.  Came back a couple of days later and was real happy with the recommendation.  Struck me as very performance driven, had a bit of a chuckle.  

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21 minutes ago, NZK said:

Noticed some things in the Leech Box photo;

Turns up at the AC with a single line :lol:

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4 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

I sold Jimmy Spithill his bottle holders.  He went with my recommendation of sidepull cages for his particular application, clear performance advantage which he didn't know about.

Am I a traitor? 

Bottle holders? I never thought of that application. Will be a huge market out there if someone could invent that as well.

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56 minutes ago, NZK said:

Weta - these are awesome photos. Careful though, you're getting close to 'doing a Giles' and maybe revealing more than they want...!

Noticed some things in the Leech Box photo;

1. This looks like battens in each skin attached to the diagonal clew battens which seem to part of a the more structural/solid clew plate behind that seam in the mainsail. Would love to see what else is going on under there....

2. Is this the line that extends from the mast base 'spanner'? If so it seems odd that they both terminate at this single point on the ram - this can't induce much individual camber into each of the skins independently and also would seem to put a lot of shear on the ram. I'm certain I'm missing something here as I reckon ETNZ trusted this to someone with more qualifications than I..... unless it's just there to hold the clew up onto centreline and stop it falling to leeward?

3. This lower foot batten looks pretty 'prototype' and I reckon we'll see a much more refined system either for Xmas regatta or the Cup.

4. As above - a lot of chafe on these lines over the edge of the traveller recess, seems like a work in progress with a cleaner solution in the pipeline.

As a whole this mainsail system is insane - whether or not other teams have as much complexity is all speculation but getting shots like these makes all the other sniping and bullshit worthwhile! I reckon when they do make the next round of changes there'll be at least an extra Velcro-on cover to keep it out of view of prying lenses...

LeechBox1.jpg

And then there's this bit of lovely machining

 

20201215_231936.jpg

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4 hours ago, Indio said:

I wonder who will front from ETNZ at 10 in the morning when the skippers front the media. I'm picking Glen Ashby is still the skipper - he's been fronting most interviews.

Will he be able to front the media after AM made them look like a dog?  Or is that INEOS?

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6 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

There doesn't seem to a lot of bang for buck going on. The shed looks nice though...

How do you know how much they have spent?  Not only do you know everything about the boats but now your an accountant?

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Now this is A true story. Dummers talks Shit about UK pubs to establish credibility, spews more posts than spewbot in his first week of life, and calls etnz team middle east. They did need a name, but this was his last nickname. FO smack daddy

Good to see your reactions.

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6 hours ago, weta27 said:

And from the last photo, for the macramé afficionados: 

LeechBox.jpg

Excellent - both photo and caption :) 

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6 hours ago, NZK said:

Weta - these are awesome photos. Careful though, you're getting close to 'doing a Giles' and maybe revealing more than they want...!

Noticed some things in the Leech Box photo;

1. This looks like battens in each skin attached to the diagonal clew battens which seem to part of a the more structural/solid clew plate behind that seam in the mainsail. Would love to see what else is going on under there....

2. Is this the line that extends from the mast base 'spanner'? If so it seems odd that they both terminate at this single point on the ram - this can't induce much individual camber into each of the skins independently and also would seem to put a lot of shear on the ram. I'm certain I'm missing something here as I reckon ETNZ trusted this to someone with more qualifications than I..... unless it's just there to hold the clew up onto centreline and stop it falling to leeward?

3. This lower foot batten looks pretty 'prototype' and I reckon we'll see a much more refined system either for Xmas regatta or the Cup.

4. As above - a lot of chafe on these lines over the edge of the traveller recess, seems like a work in progress with a cleaner solution in the pipeline.

As a whole this mainsail system is insane - whether or not other teams have as much complexity is all speculation but getting shots like these makes all the other sniping and bullshit worthwhile! I reckon when they do make the next round of changes there'll be at least an extra Velcro-on cover to keep it out of view of prying lenses...

LeechBox1.jpg

Fascinating stuff, great pic!  Wouldn't worry about shear at point 2 in the pic,  the assembly toggles across the pin there.  Guessing the mainsheet ram top terminates at the batten/boommember. The rams at 1 look to ride on that as well for more foot tension? The web at 3 is just there to tension the deckskimmer part of the sail, with  the round stock battens there to keep the shape. 

When I took a stab at how this would work in the LR thread awhile back it was with rams below deck toggling the mainsheet rams back and forth, not with the above deck pullers to bend the battens. Going to take this up with HR that they didn't try my version but I guess when in doubt you go with ETNZs experience. I guess. 

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Now this is A true story. Dummers talks Shit about UK pubs to establish credibility, spews more posts than spewbot in his first week of life, and calls etnz team middle east. They did need a name, but this was his last nickname. FO smack daddy

It's slightly annoying that the spammer hasn't discovered MultiQuote yet. Scrolling past several posts devoid of meaning that are only there to up the post count is tedious. Otherwise, just ignore it.

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2 hours ago, Xlot said:

Excellent - both photo and caption :) 

 

7 hours ago, NZK said:

Weta - these are awesome photos. Careful though, you're getting close to 'doing a Giles' and maybe revealing more than they want...!

Noticed some things in the Leech Box photo;

1. This looks like battens in each skin attached to the diagonal clew battens which seem to part of a the more structural/solid clew plate behind that seam in the mainsail. Would love to see what else is going on under there....

2. Is this the line that extends from the mast base 'spanner'? If so it seems odd that they both terminate at this single point on the ram - this can't induce much individual camber into each of the skins independently and also would seem to put a lot of shear on the ram. I'm certain I'm missing something here as I reckon ETNZ trusted this to someone with more qualifications than I..... unless it's just there to hold the clew up onto centreline and stop it falling to leeward?

3. This lower foot batten looks pretty 'prototype' and I reckon we'll see a much more refined system either for Xmas regatta or the Cup.

4. As above - a lot of chafe on these lines over the edge of the traveller recess, seems like a work in progress with a cleaner solution in the pipeline.

As a whole this mainsail system is insane - whether or not other teams have as much complexity is all speculation but getting shots like these makes all the other sniping and bullshit worthwhile! I reckon when they do make the next round of changes there'll be at least an extra Velcro-on cover to keep it out of view of prying lenses...

LeechBox1.jpg

Awesome pic thank you. I have been looking at the setup and wondering if they were effectively using a "floating" mainsail clew with the piston floating as well. I was wondering if they did that to individually camber the skins...

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1 minute ago, The_Alchemist said:

Sounds like AM Patriot decided to not sandbag as much today....  See 

 

 

Meh, they all have a tonne of sand on board.

Even the racing starting tomorrow will mean sweet fuck all.

Will be fun to watch, but will mean nothing except.

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6 hours ago, dullers said:

Will he be able to front the media after AM made them look like a dog?  Or is that INEOS?

Bahaha ETNZ was definitely sand bagging! Let them in a couple of times and let them keep it close until they got the shift from God. If thats what they're relying on  its gonna be a very long series for them

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36 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Bahaha ETNZ was definitely sand bagging! Let them in a couple of times and let them keep it close until they got the shift from God. If thats what they're relying on  its gonna be a very long series for them

We are learning more and more about team Mid East on here. When they go bad they were sand bagging. We know from a couple of the posters on here that the other teams are just crap and should go home.  The other teams are still working on adjustments to their sand bags.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Meh, they all have a tonne of sand on board.

RG nailed it for once: it’s like the start of a bicycle pursuit race

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17 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Is that a new thing? 

The sparkling Waitemata home of the Cup is a ever changing palette of colour variations the Bermudian hue is most probably best explained by someone more knowledgeable and without having to reach for the Google.

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40 minutes ago, Xlot said:

RG nailed it for once: it’s like the start of a bicycle pursuit race

Nice analogy!

There is a million and one ways to sandbag whilst appearing to be working flat out.

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10 hours ago, dullers said:

How do you know how much they have spent?  Not only do you know everything about the boats but now your an accountant?

It could be worse - like pretending to be someone you're not.

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6 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

It could be worse - like pretending to be someone you're not.

Who am I trying to be?

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1 hour ago, dullers said:

Who am I trying to be?

some sock of someone who has been here before

someone desperate to be on the ignore list

either way ...  ya gocha wish

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3 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

some sock of someone who has been here before

someone desperate to be on the ignore list

either way ...  ya gocha wish

Your the third Kiwi to put me on that list. Thanks.  I get on with most Kiwis just not a few of the experts  on here.

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13 hours ago, NZK said:

...

LeechBox1.jpg

Zoom in 800x and you will see this stuff is from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. The real shit is well hidden. Smart those kiwis are. 

So, Merry Christmas...

 

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2 hours ago, dullers said:

Your the third Kiwi to put me on that list. Thanks.  I get on with most Kiwis just not a few of the experts  on here.

History suggests your ability to over-rate yourself is incredibly high. I wouldn't hold your breath...

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3 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

History suggests your ability to over-rate yourself is incredibly high. I wouldn't hold your breath...

Who am I and what is my history?  Very strange. 

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1 minute ago, NZL3481 said:

You said it...

My apologies.

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It starts. This is where all the abuse, thinking, speculation, @clapping and bullshit stops for a time and we all see reality take shape. 

Congratulations Weta, look forward to seeing some of your snaps. 

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9 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

History suggests your ability to over-rate yourself is incredibly high. I wouldn't hold your breath...

He has no idea of the number of folk who just see unfortunate quotes. 

Don't quote the troll.

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3 hours ago, kenergy said:

I just want to see some fucking racing.

You'll have to wait until the challenger series next year. What week see tomorrow will simply be a comparison of which boat can conceal the most sand.

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On 12/15/2020 at 11:13 PM, dullers said:

Bottle holders? I never thought of that application. Will be a huge market out there if someone could invent that as well.

Ergonomics helps 

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12 hours ago, weta27 said:

Looking forward to tomorrow!

DSC_3599.JPG

Something to consider- while I was looking at the photos in the LR thread, it occurred to me, that ETNZ didn't have windows in their main or jibs- and that's probably because they have those fancy screens in the trenches. It's also likely they can't (or don't want to) add the window to their main due to whatever their shaping system consists of, making the screens the easy alternative. Once you have made the jump in complexity (camera vs hole in the main) why not apply the same logic to the jib, remove the window and add a camera so the driver can easily see to leeward and ahead of the jib.

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23 minutes ago, atwinda said:

 Once you have made the jump in complexity (camera vs hole in the main) why not apply the same logic to the jib, remove the window and add a camera so the driver can easily see to leeward and ahead of the jib.

Interesting point. Though I have been involved in a few domains where cameras have been unpopular/unworkable/unsafe because cameras just aren't the same. Some of it is for good reasons, some for bad. Be interesting to know how NZ find them for decision making if they get into a close call

 

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11 hours ago, kenergy said:

I just want to see some fucking racing.

An interesting sport. So, in order to win "fucking racing" what has to happen?

Is it that, you need a hot bird that you haven't banged before and you've saved up the baby batter for a week or so while being at the beach staring at birds in skimpy bikinis and getting worked up beyond fairness.

You then line up or, are filmed by a trusted committee of assessors against other peers of the sport and the first to blow their Bolt wins? Or is it, the opposite of this and the bloke who lasts the longest without wearing the skin off their pork sword wins?

Either way, this thoughtform has given me wood and I'm off to see the cook to give old blue-nose a feed of guts. 

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rumor has it that the heads down looking at screens approach is great until you fail to spot the massive wind shift that cost you the race as it didn't show up on the  6" screen you were busy watching.

hey wtf would I know ;)

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

rumor has it that the heads down looking at screens approach is great until you fail to spot the massive wind shift that cost you the race as it didn't show up on the  6" screen you were busy watching.

hey wtf would I know ;)

More than my dog but less than my cat.

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Those cats are fecking sailing gurus. Mine is a AC75 savant.

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17 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

More than my dog but less than my cat.

guess they missed the shift for a reason then.. 

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1 hour ago, atwinda said:

Something to consider- while I was looking at the photos in the LR thread, it occurred to me, that ETNZ didn't have windows in their main or jibs- and that's probably because they have those fancy screens in the trenches. It's also likely they can't (or don't want to) add the window to their main due to whatever their shaping system consists of, making the screens the easy alternative. Once you have made the jump in complexity (camera vs hole in the main) why not apply the same logic to the jib, remove the window and add a camera so the driver can easily see to leeward and ahead of the jib.

I don’t think we’ve seen the full picture yet (if you’ll excuse the pun). They’ve talked about waiting until the Xmas Cup before we see how they’ll sail the boat. Maybe we’ll find out more today. 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

rumor has it that the heads down looking at screens approach is great until you fail to spot the massive wind shift that cost you the race as it didn't show up on the  6" screen you were busy watching.

hey wtf would I know ;)

Shifts are not so important when you're 2-3 knots faster than your opposition. Boatspeed fixes everything, or in the case of Ineos, creates everything in their world of pain.

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Interesting point. Though I have been involved in a few domains where cameras have been unpopular/unworkable/unsafe because cameras just aren't the same. Some of it is for good reasons, some for bad. Be interesting to know how NZ find them for decision making if they get into a close call

 

lake of depth perception on a flat screen from one camera.  I can see where steering from a screen my help you line up your course with some points on the screen, but keeping your head down looking at a 10-12" screen is nothing like scanning the water in front of you looking for shifts and distances to travel.  There is not way the reduction in drag is worth the lose of perception of what is happening around you on the water.

This may be a major flaw in the NZ design, I guess they could have Pete stand on a stool so he can see what is in front of him.

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3 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Shifts are not so important when you're 2-3 knots faster than your opposition. Boatspeed fixes everything, or in the case of Ineos, creates everything in their world of pain.

Really?  You really believe that NZ is 2-3 knots faster than everyone else?

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2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Really?  You really believe that NZ is 2-3 knots faster than everyone else?

Don't question the Kiwi posters on here....

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13 minutes ago, dullers said:

Don't question the Kiwi posters on here....

Don't lump me in with the trolls on here :).  There are dickheads from every country posting on here as well as some some seriously cool people.  The title of the forum does give a teensy clue as to some of the behaviours but you don't have to rise to the bait and give them more ammo.  Having said that, if you met the trolls in person; you'd most likely enjoy a laugh over a beer with them.  The internet bears no relationship to reality :D

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Anyway, who is going to be out there on the water watching? North Head might be worth the trip down the cul-de-sac as well!

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1 minute ago, toad said:

Anyway, who is going to be out there on the water watching? North Head might be worth the trip down the cul-de-sac as well!

Take I bike if you can, theres not a lot of parking available,  they've marked off most of the streets. 

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8 minutes ago, GeeJay said:

Don't lump me in with the trolls on here :).  There are dickheads from every country posting on here as well as some some seriously cool people.  The title of the forum does give a teensy clue as to some of the behaviours but you don't have to rise to the bait and give them more ammo.  Having said that, if you met the trolls in person; you'd most likely enjoy a laugh over a beer with them.  The internet bears no relationship to reality :D

My humble apologies.

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I'm taking the yott for a spin, there 13 good hp ready to blast my way to the front of the pack

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Does anyone know who the commentators will be on the americas cup youtube channel? - different to whats on TVNZ?

Last cup it was a couple of americans on sky go and I did not really enjoy them :) 

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Interesting point. Though I have been involved in a few domains where cameras have been unpopular/unworkable/unsafe because cameras just aren't the same. Some of it is for good reasons, some for bad. Be interesting to know how NZ find them for decision making if they get into a close call

 

Not sure about shipboard, but my first experience of a rear view camera in my VW was a bit unnerving.

Now. who looks behind anymore? Once embraced, there's no pulling back from technology.

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Not sure about shipboard, but my first experience of a rear view camera in my VW was a bit unnerving.

Now. who looks behind anymore? Once embraced, there's no pulling back from technology.

My nephew