Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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9 minutes ago, atwinda said:

I think something along these lines is likely. FCS has to accept input from the individual team's controls- whether that's as simple as "Up" or "Down", I don't know, but given the complexity of these boats that seems unlikely.

Agreed. It could also be that the Ineos system is relying on API’s in a way that is different to how other teams are doing it, making their usage case unique. 

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26 minutes ago, atwinda said:

I think something along these lines is likely. FCS has to accept input from the individual team's controls- whether that's as simple as "Up" or "Down", I don't know, but given the complexity of these boats that seems unlikely.

INEOS being one of two teams to launch a smaller scale trail boat- they must have had to develop their own version of the FCS for that. I wonder if they made some macro-level control design decisions based on how their internal small scale FCS worked, and they are having some issues apply lessons learned there to the OD FCS...

It could be something as simple as a timing mismatch (for example) in the ECC sending a signal to a ratchet-type lock holding the arm in place (rather than relying on a hydraulic lock, which leaks) to release the arm, causing the lock-up and  the motor keeps pumping 'til the batteries overheated and shut down.

The lithium batteries that "closed down completely" are German-made Torqeedo 48V/5000Wh units - Torqeedo didn't come down in the last shower!!

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1 hour ago, atwinda said:

 

 

The "TWICE" was more about the FCS issues dating back to B1, and the implication was that it's unlikely they received bad FCS both times.

They have been crying wolf for a long time. If there is an actual issue, then the other teams have figured something out.

No argument here. I thought you were referring to the two controllers they cooked yesterday. I think the FCS is a little dodgy, which makes sense for a first gen system. It seems like Ineos ignored the problem, thinking a fix was coming. The other 3 teams figured out how to deal with it. 

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Ask any olympic sailer how identical one design gear is and come back to us.. 

Tell me about it!

We had 10 masts of the same batch once and they all tested different. Tip of the iceberg - welcome to one design.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Agreed. It could also be that the Ineos system is relying on API’s in a way that is different to how other teams are doing it, making their usage case unique. 

Whatever it is AM said they have three full-time people working on it so it's no minor issue.

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7 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Whatever it is AM said they have three full-time people working on it so it's no minor issue.

The way I interpreted what was said was that it was a full time job optimizing the foil systems and getting it to work - but I didn’t get any hint that it was a collective problem to resolve but more like “it’s part of the class challenge”

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

The way I interpreted what was said was that it was a full time job optimizing the foil systems and getting it to work - but I didn’t get any hint that it was a collective problem to resolve but more like “it’s part of the class challenge”

You took that wrong.  Also, right after the first race on day 2, when LR was asked about what happen to AM (when they almost capsized) he automatically mentioned the problems with the can't system that they all have been having.

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Did anyone else notice ETNZ upper leach off the wind moving almost continuously? Not super fast but maybe every 2 or 3 seconds. 

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

You took that wrong.  Also, right after the first race on day 2, when LR was asked about what happen to AM (when they almost capsized) he automatically mentioned the problems with the can't system that they all have been having.

They also said it worked fine after that. So they would need to check. 

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1 hour ago, amc said:

Did anyone else notice ETNZ upper leach off the wind moving almost continuously? Not super fast but maybe every 2 or 3 seconds. 

Yeah I caught that too. The Hummingbird returns

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All these mainsail control components don't appear to be nearly as advanced on the challengers right?? Looked like a primary (center) and dual secondary hydraulic rams although I'm no expert.

Attached one pic of Ben's "outhaul" setup. Looks basic comparitively. 

Screenshot_20201218-025227.png

Screenshot_20201218-025141.png

Screenshot_20201218-025129.png

Screenshot_20201218-030327.png

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^^^^ It was interesting to watch them disassemble the clew thingys during the interview. Just after these pics a couple of long pins or rods came out. Tis a complex setup. TR's traveller makes a huge groaning sound when moved, also other strange sounds during manoeuvers. In contrast LR traveller is silent whilst moving.

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

^^^^ It was interesting to watch them disassemble the clew thingys during the interview. Just after these pics a couple of long pins or rods came out. Tis a complex setup. TR's traveller makes a huge groaning sound when moved, also other strange sounds during manoeuvers. In contrast LR traveller is silent whilst moving.

What's the sound of magnets anyway?

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8 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

What's the sound of magnets anyway?

Pull a couple of neodymiums from an old hard drive. Take said magnets to your groin region and place either side of testicles. Now tell me about the sound you make. 

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6 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Pull a couple of neodymiums from an old hard drive. Take said magnets to your groin region and place either side of testicles. Now tell me about the sound you make. 

Oh....yes, YES. Mmmmm....yeah. Fuck.

Whoops. Wrong channel. ;-)

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If thay ar not grandstanding,  Ineos need to mayk theer allegayshunz to Arbitrayshun, not to meedya.

Hint: doo not doo a Joolyarnie.

Cum armd with evidents.

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On 12/17/2020 at 5:35 PM, Miffy said:

Shrug because it isn't a consumer product and I take Ben Ainsley's complaints with a grain of salt. The other teams demurred when given the opportunity to join his complaint. And if there's anything consistent re AC campaigns - is shit stirrers always shit stir & Ben Ainsley has trouble with team building/integration work.

Well your post did not age well.....My Brit boat is still slow so you can have a go.

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On 12/17/2020 at 6:55 PM, rh3000 said:

Ineos struggling to pump oil? The irony...

Maybe they're still fracking the FCS with chemicals and are waiting for the oil to come out? 

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58 minutes ago, dullers said:

Well your post did not age well.....My Brit boat is still slow so you can have a go.

? I don’t get your meaning. Other boats including Ineos are going around the race track fine. We had a good race between the Americans and the Italians. 

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Maurice Chevalier has done another of his excellent set of drawings/plans, this one of Te Rehutai  :
image.png.9b8c6a2ae7b8f1141aa9cb41bc83a009.png

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21 hours ago, snaerk said:

If thay ar not grandstanding,  Ineos need to mayk theer allegayshunz to Arbitrayshun, not to meedya.

Hint: doo not doo a Joolyarnie.

Cum armd with evidents.

You couldn't script the times Ben says...fuuck. And he isn't that good an actor.

I've mulled the "act" over but doesn't seem right

 

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27 minutes ago, barfy said:

You couldn't script the times Ben says...fuuck. And he isn't that good an actor.

When shit happens Deano says "this is so annoying, we have to sort this out."

Professional.

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1 minute ago, astro said:

When shit happens Deano says "this is so annoying, we have to sort this out."

Professional.

Dawling, bring me a cuppa,I have to think this one over before the  chauffeur arrives

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11 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Maurice Chevalier has done another of his excellent set of drawings/plans, this one of Te Rehutai  :
image.png.9b8c6a2ae7b8f1141aa9cb41bc83a009.png

Just a shame port foil has been drawn as fully down instead of the actual sailing configuration. 

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still trying to figure out the answer to the question: 

Had one boat carried code one in the last race and stayed foiling, could they have completed the whole course in less time than that race took?

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On 12/17/2020 at 9:05 PM, FinnFish said:

Why is the problem team specific? Did INEOS design and install their own system/software and now that it's not functioning Ben wants all the teams to help them sort it out?

But how the fuck do you spend three years to get to this point? 

After yesterdays gong show Ben has lost any psychological advantage he had with his petulant child, sculling 'it's not fair' attitude in the presser, pretty clear he's under pressure and fragile. They have about 3-weeks to get competitive, take out Xmas/New Year downtime and it's probably closer to 2-weeks. They're simply gone, now who will stand up and take the bullet(s).

Calm down. It is only a race or game....

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1 hour ago, breezie said:

still trying to figure out the answer to the question: 

Had one boat carried code one in the last race and stayed foiling, could they have completed the whole course in less time than that race took?

According to Jimmy, doubtful. Up on the foils quicker, but too much drag and likely slower around the track than with a J1.

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11 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:
1 hour ago, breezie said:

still trying to figure out the answer to the question: 

Had one boat carried code one in the last race and stayed foiling, could they have completed the whole course in less time than that race took?

According to Jimmy, doubtful. Up on the foils quicker, but too much drag and likely slower around the track than with a J1.

CZ’s are a lot slower tacking/gibing (getting it around the forestay) as well, which means greater speed loss each time.

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

According to Jimmy, doubtful. Up on the foils quicker, but too much drag and likely slower around the track than with a J1.

but thats not the point  (or the question I am posing)  "faster around the track" is great   BUT does it make up for the time spent not going around the track!

I really think Jimmy's answer was off the cuff NOT the result of any considered analysis.

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32 minutes ago, breezie said:

but thats not the point  (or the question I am posing)  "faster around the track" is great   BUT does it make up for the time spent not going around the track!

I really think Jimmy's answer was off the cuff NOT the result of any considered analysis.

Faster around the track would mean lower time to get from the start to the finish. It's great to never fall off the foils, or to be able to get back up on the foils, and then you might be able to make some gains at that part of the race, but if you are slower overall than the other boat, you are not going to win the whole race.

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The Russian's hacked INEOS, wait, maybe it was the Chinese?

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16 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Maurice Chevalier has done another of his excellent set of drawings/plans, this one of Te Rehutai  :
 

 

Regret having to reprimand you, but it’s François Chevalier (Maurice was a famous chansonnier). And it’s Luna Rossa, BTW - rosa’s pink :) 

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On 12/18/2020 at 2:57 AM, usa318 said:

All these mainsail control components don't appear to be nearly as advanced on the challengers right?? Looked like a primary (center) and dual secondary hydraulic rams although I'm no expert.

Attached one pic of Ben's "outhaul" setup. Looks basic comparitively. 

Screenshot_20201218-025227.png

Screenshot_20201218-025141.png

Screenshot_20201218-025129.png

 

 

Center pictures show a track hung on the internal foot with the mainsheet attached to it like a boomless 1990s beach cat (PIC 1) , so not super innovative in the end, but different, yes. Thanks for posting these, another part of the puzzle. 

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3 hours ago, k-f-u said:

Dinghy sailors... :rolleyes:

20201219_223837.thumb.png.b0e26082b7f876d357b9acfbfaab5655.png20201219_223859.thumb.png.61d2f3921a9d6810082d53ac52925820.png20201219_223915.thumb.png.1f09fbd520ba05bce111e04bf0bb0cea.png

Boys still used to school uniforms. ;-)

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anyone still trying to argue that the boat with a code zero would not have won that last race?

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3 hours ago, XPRO said:

 

Center pictures show a track hung on the internal foot with the mainsheet attached to it like a boomless 1990s beach cat (PIC 1) , so not super innovative in the end, but different, yes. Thanks for posting these, another part of the puzzle. 

That’s the visible part. I doubt we will ever find out what’s between the two membranes. 

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On 12/19/2020 at 8:59 PM, breezie said:

anyone still trying to argue that the boat with a code zero would not have won that last race?

Terry Hutchison said the Code Zero is basically worthless and that it would not have helped.  He said you can get up in lighter wind better with the code zero, but it has so much drag that you will never win.  He said you have to learn to up with get up with the large jib.

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38 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Terry Hutchison said the Code Zero is basically worthless and that it would not have helped.  He said you can get up in lighter wind better with the code zero, but it has so much drag that you will never win.  He said you have to learn to up with get up with the large jib.

With all due respect to Terry's superior sailing ability, IMO teams may now re-assess the use of bowsprit tacked jibs. Especially if both competitors are using them (at the bottom of the wind range) all I can see is advantage, despite the known drag. 

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Just a thought I'm sure ETNZ used there first and shittest set of foils and gear from B1 for the regatta to see how that shaped up. 

Pretty well. 

 

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11 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:

Just a thought I'm sure ETNZ used there first and shittest set of foils and gear from B1 for the regatta to see how that shaped up. 

Pretty well. 

 

I don't think so. At the end of B1's reign, they had already implemented the "BFB" foil, and had been testing it against what looked like very similar foil wings, but with a torpedo bulb.

So far, they seem to be continuing with testing those 2 foils.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Terry Hutchison said the Code Zero is basically worthless and that it would not have helped.  He said you can get up in lighter wind better with the code zero, but it has so much drag that you will never win.  He said you have to learn to up with get up with the large jib.

This is something that blew me away, I thought this was already pretty commonly known? I was blown away when I first saw the boats with prods.

If they didn't help with the cats, why would they help with a boat which sail faster and closer to the wind? It would therefor only be more draggy, help less with pointing, maybe help downwind, but then you would need to keep it furled all race... and either take that drag uphill, or the penalty of taking it down, and then it would be a fucking nightmare to gybe around the forestay.

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53 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I don't think so. At the end of B1's reign, they had already implemented the "BFB" foil, and had been testing it against what looked like very similar foil wings, but with a torpedo bulb.

So far, they seem to be continuing with testing those 2 foils.

They’re on foils 3 and 4 at present. 

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55 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

snap

Ha, ha. Yeah, OK. And what if polarity is the same. ie: its repulsive? ;-)

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6 minutes ago, Rangi said:

They’re on foils 3 and 4 at present. 

 

He pai tena!  So they have a complete set up their sleeves still.  Despite their foils having a smaller area than any other team, I haven't noticed them struggling to get on the foils any more than others.

Tried to estimate the boat speed they need to foil, but it wasn't easy or accurate. Best guess for NZ was ~20 knots, my calcs seem to indicate 19.5 but that means little.

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1 hour ago, NZL4EVER said:

Just a thought I'm sure ETNZ used there first and shittest set of foils and gear from B1 for the regatta to see how that shaped up. 

Pretty well. 

 

I thought they used their hybrid set. These weren't the foils that Te Aihe was launched with, IIRC.

We also saw them testing foils with torpedoes didn't we? So, on that basis, ETNZ have used up their allocation also - or have I got that wrong?

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5 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

 

He pai tena!  So they have a complete set up their sleeves still.  Despite their foils having a smaller area than any other team, I haven't noticed them struggling to get on the foils any more than others.

Tried to estimate the boat speed they need to foil, but it wasn't easy or accurate. Best guess for NZ was ~20 knots, my calcs seem to indicate 19.5 but that means little.

I think I heard 15 knots SOG mentioned in the commentary - Peter Lester, I think.

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18 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

I think I heard 15 knots SOG mentioned in the commentary - Peter Lester, I think.

NO mentioned takeoff boat speed is about 18 knots.

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41 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Tried to estimate the boat speed they need to foil, but it wasn't easy or accurate. Best guess for NZ was ~20 knots, my calcs seem to indicate 19.5 but that means little

They can do it lower than that.

15 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

NO mentioned takeoff boat speed is about 18 knots.

Lester said 15 knots boat speed yesterday.  However there have been training videos of them doing it lower than that.  6 knots wind speed is enough.  The problem yesterday was that the wind speed had dropped to below that when they fell off their foils.  Around 4 knots.  Hence Tuke suggesting the gybe instead of tack so they could stay up.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

ETNZ have used up their allocation also - or have I got that wrong?

Te Aihe initially used one flat, shallow curve-swept, the other a shallow anhedral.

Then after the torpedo bulb was introduced on Te Kahu, they fitted the current pair to Te Aihe, ie., one flat with small bulb and one flat with blended bulb/wing.

So I think only 4 so far?

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

They can do it lower than that.

Lester said 15 knots boat speed yesterday.  However there have been training videos of them doing it lower than that.  6 knots wind speed is enough.  The problem yesterday was that the wind speed had dropped to below that when they fell off their foils.  Around 4 knots.  Hence Tuke suggesting the gybe instead of tack so they could stay up.

You may like to revisit Race 12 between Prada & TR.

I went through the Virtual Eye replay.

Prada falls of the foils on leg 2 (at ~8:42), Prada got back on their foils started accelerating at ~12:50, with speeds at around 18~19 knots (wind strength ~10 knots).

Rounding gate 2, after TR perform a tack, they also fell off the foil and stuck on about 18~19 knots for over 30 seconds (16:50~17:25) before taking off again (wind strength ~8 knots).

 

VE.png

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10 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Tried to estimate the boat speed they need to foil, but it wasn't easy or accurate. Best guess for NZ was ~20 knots, my calcs seem to indicate 19.5 but that means little.

You can actually go back and look at what speed and wind speed the boats need to foil for these light air races...

NEVER MIND  I see that Fish7yu is doing that.

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9 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

They can do it lower than that.

Lester said 15 knots boat speed yesterday.  However there have been training videos of them doing it lower than that.  6 knots wind speed is enough.  The problem yesterday was that the wind speed had dropped to below that when they fell off their foils.  Around 4 knots.  Hence Tuke suggesting the gybe instead of tack so they could stay up.

There several times the wind got up to above 7 knots during the displacement race and they could not get up.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

There several times the wind got up to above 7 knots during the displacement race and they could not get up.

7knts at the committee boat isn't of much use to the two boats around the top mark.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

There several times the wind got up to above 7 knots during the displacement race and they could not get up.

Not in the wind hole the boats were in and certainly not consistently or with any weight.  The wind was dying not increasing.

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10 hours ago, fish7yu said:

Prada falls of the foils on leg 2 (at ~8:42), Prada got back on their foils started accelerating at ~12:50, with speeds at around 18~19 knots (wind strength ~10 knots).

 Rounding gate 2, after TR perform a tack, they also fell off the foil and stuck on about 18~19 knots for over 30 seconds (16:50~17:25) before taking off again (wind strength ~8 knots).

Boat modes?  Which sails - jib and main?  Which foils?

Where was the wind being measured from?  The boats themselves or the committee boat?

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12 hours ago, weta27 said:

Te Aihe initially used one flat, shallow curve-swept, the other a shallow anhedral.

Then after the torpedo bulb was introduced on Te Kahu, they fitted the current pair to Te Aihe, ie., one flat with small bulb and one flat with blended bulb/wing.

So I think only 4 so far?

It appears TR and LR have one set of foils left AM and the tractor have used their allocation. 

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6 minutes ago, uflux said:

It appears TR and LR have one set of foils left AM and the tractor have used their allocation. 

What are the chances that they will all agree to permit more mods than currently allowed?

AM=Yes

LR= Nah

Brexitannia=Yes PLEASE!!

ETNZ= Yeah-Nah..

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47 minutes ago, uflux said:

It appears TR and LR have one set of foils left AM and the tractor have used their allocation. 

Has AM definitely used all 3 sets?

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Boat modes?  Which sails - jib and main?  Which foils?

Where was the wind being measured from?  The boats themselves or the committee boat?

looking forward to your analysis after you dissect all details.

I just relive Race 12 conditions, both teams were taking off at around 18∼19 knots boat speed.

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3 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

looking forward to your analysis after you dissect all details.

I just relive Race 12 conditions, both teams were taking off at around 18∼19 knots boat speed.

So you don't know?

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

7knts at the committee boat isn't of much use to the two boats around the top mark.

The wind speed that was on the telecast is from each boat, just like their speed, direction, omg, etc...  It was in a graphic just below the videos from each boat.

You can go back and re-watch the exciting action and note the changes in the true wind speed on each boat as they sped along.

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15 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So you don't know?

 

3 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Boat modes?  Which sails - jib and main?  Which foils?

Where was the wind being measured from?  The boats themselves or the committee boat?

You can easily go back and watch the race videos and collect the data yourself if you are genuine in your interest. 

It was painfully obvious in the one race that UK though they could get back up on their foils at just over 17 knots of boat speed.  They kept turning to pop up but it just wasn't working... that is why they kept going so far off of the course.  If you truly interested (and not just being a shithead), you can go back and see the wind and boat speeds of all of the boats as they fell of the foils and tried to get back up.

No where in the videos could we ever see the wind speed from the committee boat, did you even watch the races?

Oh, and if you noticed, none of the boats changed sails (jib or main), foils, etc during the races...

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23 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

The wind speed that was on the telecast is from each boat, just like their speed, direction, omg, etc...  It was in a graphic just below the videos from each boat.

You can go back and re-watch the exciting action and note the changes in the true wind speed on each boat as they sped along.

No need to rewatch anything, I've collected all the data here: https://ac36.herokuapp.com/stats_app

They dropped off foils at around 4kn of TWS EDIT: 4m/s, not knots!

image.png.a35b7f4f37dfb9679f157cb922f858be.png

The boat speed at the time:

image.png.e58dc235f5bad71bbc484bcf8491f01e.png

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4 minutes ago, dorox said:

 

No need to rewatch anything, I've collected all the data here: https://ac36.herokuapp.com/stats_app

They dropped off foils at around 4kn of TWS

 

The boat speed at the time:

 

Is the TWS in knots or m/s? 

Edit: I'm pretty sure it's m/s. Just looked at the first days races, when I remember they showed the windspeed being ~15 kts, and your graphs show 7 - 8. 

1 kt = ~0.5 m/s, so it would make sense.

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4 minutes ago, erdb said:

Is the TWS in knots or m/s?

Well spotted! It is in m/s. I gotta add units to the y axis, but too lazy right now.

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4 minutes ago, dorox said:

Well spotted! It is in m/s. I gotta add units to the y axis, but too lazy right now.

Yeah I understand. I'm just as lazy to read the Bokey documentation :). How does it work? How do you upload your python code? 

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2 minutes ago, erdb said:

Yeah I understand. I'm just as lazy to read the Bokey documentation :). How does it work? How do you upload your python code? 

There is much more to that: gotta write the code to read files, process the data, configure the plot. Then this has to be uploaded on the web hosting (heroku.com in my case) and hope it works and doesn't exceed 512MB of RAM, which is also difficult because each race has up to 100MB of data in total.

Here is how a part of the code looks like: (I can add you to my GitHub if you have an account there)

 

image.png

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2 minutes ago, dorox said:

There is much more to that: gotta write the code to read files, process the data, configure the plot. Then this has to be uploaded on the web hosting (heroku.com in my case) and hope it works and doesn't exceed 512MB of RAM, which is also difficult because each race has up to 100MB of data in total.

Here is how a part of the code looks like: (I can add you to my GitHub if you have an account there)

 

image.png

Yeah, I have an idea about loading and processing the data I was just curious about how you made it accessible. I don't really need it now, but thanks.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So you don't know?

Sounded like that you know, please enlighten us.

Again, the boats were taking off at 18∼19 knots boat speed in race 12, it was shown on VirtualEye advance dashboard, that much I know, I haven't seen any data elsewhere in conflict with the VE data so far.

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Responding to the Kate/Bob troll is a waste of time and effort and posts, here and in any other of the hundreds of other threads polluted by them. 

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18 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

Again, the boats were taking off in 18∼19 knots in race 12, it was shown on VirtualEye advance dashboard, that much I know, I haven't seen any data elsewhere in conflict with the VE data so far.

Taking off at 18 - 19 knots of boat speed, Fish - just for clarity.

Screen Shot 2020-12-22 at 12.02.23 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-12-22 at 12.07.00 PM.png

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Taking off at 18 - 19 knots of boat speed, Fish - just for clarity.

Screen Shot 2020-12-22 at 12.02.23 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-12-22 at 12.07.00 PM.png

Roger.

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23 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

Sounded like that you know, please enlighten us.

Again, the boats were taking off in 18∼19 knots in race 12, it was shown on VirtualEye advance dashboard, that much I know, I haven't seen any data elsewhere in conflict with the VE data so far.

The point is if you don't know those factors then you can't determine accurately what boat speed is required to get on the foils.  Lester said 15 during the commentary and I've seen them do it marginally lower in training.

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The point is if you don't know those factors then you can't determine accurately what boat speed is required to get on the foils.  Lester said 15 during the commentary and I've seen them do it marginally lower in training.

The point is that they did not take off on 15 knots of boat speed in race 12, during the race NO was accurate in saying the take off speed is around 18 knots.

Not saying that these boats can not get on foils at 15 knots boat speed, but it did not happened in race 12.

Would love to see more supporting data.

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The dispute between MBIE and ETNZ regarding the class cost rules has been resolved with MBIE accepting that the costs have been correctly apportioned as a cost of the event.

Well done ETNZ whilst MBIE have demonstrated again that Wellington bureaucrats are incompetent!

 

unnamed (1).png

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2 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

The dispute between MBIE and ETNZ regarding the class cost rules has been resolved with MBIE accepting that the costs have been correctly apportioned as a cost of the event.

Well done ETNZ whilst MBIE have demonstrated again that Wellington bureaucrats are incompetent!

 

unnamed (1).png

Im looking forward to Smackdaddys public apology :D

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3 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

The dispute between MBIE and ETNZ regarding the class cost rules has been resolved with MBIE accepting that the costs have been correctly apportioned as a cost of the event.

Well done ETNZ whilst MBIE have demonstrated again that Wellington bureaucrats are incompetent!

 

unnamed (1).png

Stinger will be pissed.

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