Emirates Team New Zealand.

[Indio 891]

Carolyn Tremain has ended up with cum all over her face over the MBIE fishing expedition after being sucked in by Mayo&Calder, while her underlings Griffiths and McRobbie who would have been nudging her along get away scot-free.

Mayo&Calder now have to face the reality that their counter-suit against ETNZ will be tossed, they do not qualify for whistle-blower protection, and they must find million$ to pay ETNZ. I can see a couple of bankruptcies emerging from this in the very near future.

[JALhazmat 1,170]

8 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The point is if you don't know those factors then you can't determine accurately what boat speed is required to get on the foils.  Lester said 15 during the commentary and I've seen them do it marginally lower in training.

Careful I asked for facts from someone here  or some concrete proof and it got pretty short shrift... 

[fish7yu 472]

America's Cup: Team NZ and MBIE bury the hatchet - but where?

Todd Niall20:42, Dec 22 2020

America's Cup: Team NZ and MBIE bury the hatchet - but where?

OPINION: A statement that has more reading between its lines than in them, has suddenly, inexplicably ended a major row between the two parties delivering the America’s Cup event.

Lawyers were well-primed, for a long-running “mediation” between the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) on one side, and Team New Zealand and its event arm ACE on the other.

But six months of acrimony has gone in a flash, as MBIE – attributing the words to no one –expressed its “regret”.

“We regret the manner in which this issue has played out in the public arena and the detrimental reputational impact of the process on ETNZ and ACE, its directors and the teams.”

The full statement was so carefully crafted that it stopped short of being an apology. But an apology it was, as it should have been.

Quick rewind : In 2017, largely self-funded, Team New Zealand won the America’s Cup. It won the both trophy and the ownership of its next defence, which it brought back to Auckland.

As occurred in 2000 and 2003, the team signed a detailed agreement with the government, securing the event for Auckland, with the Government contributing $40 million towards the cost of staging the cup.

The “super-ministry” MBIE with tourism, and economic development among its roles became the “partner” of Team New Zealand, and the sister company America’s Cup Event Limited (ACE).

At the start of 2020, sporting event company Mayo and Calder – a contractor to ACE, began making allegations to MBIE over what it thought were financial management issues in the event.

Rather than raising this with its partner, MBIE granted Mayo and Calder “whistleblower” status and for six months received material, and commissioned forensic accountants Beattie Varley to examine it.

It was June when MBIE revealed the picture to Team NZ, at that point insisting that Grant Dalton relinquish his role as CEO of ACE, Tina Symmans step down as chair, and that MBIE would appoint a director.

Team NZ declined. It then agreed to co-operate with the audit after previously refusing due to concerns about the safety of confidential team information.

In August, the completed audit found no wrongdoing, disproved Mayo and Calder’s allegations, but flagged that a $3 million transfer from ACE to Team NZ towards designing the AC75, was not an event cost. MBIE said it thought it should not pay the $3 million.

Still in the same month, texts released to Stuff by MBIE showed its general manager of tourism Iain Cossar, told his CEO Carolyn Tremain that the minister – Phil Twyford – was still “keen” on regime change at ACE.

All of this was playing out, Queens Counsel and lawyers on tap, as the two partners were trying to pull together a cup event, during a global Covid-19 pandemic.

It is an understatement to say that reading correspondence between the two sides there is a huge culture gap between the Wellington-based bureaucracy, and the Auckland-based Cup defender.

A change of ministerial responsibility after the September election, brought Stuart Nash to the economic development and tourism portfolios, and clearly a different perspective on how long the broken relationship should remain broken.

The full statement released on Tuesday after the first formal mediation, shows a lot of rats have been swallowed.

MBIE has clearly said sorry, but not in the name of its chief executive Carolyn Tremain, or tourism GM Iain Cossar. If there is any head-hanging, it is not going to be public.

Team New Zealand has stifled its outrage, and allowed itself to be referred to by MBIE without comment.

The statement is vague but the $3 million appears to have been agreed as correct. Neither side will say any more.

But really this is not over. Where is the hatchet buried ? Somewhere in MBIE? What happens if Team NZ successfully defends the cup and has to re-negotiate with the government?

The dispute might be over, but the trust will not be readily rebuilt, and for a further defence it must be.

A further defence won’t involve Mayo and Calder. The firm was sacked by Team NZ and let go by event partner, the Italian Challenger of Record.

Team New Zealand is now suing Mayo and Calder, and vice versa. The judgement exercised by MBIE at the start of this row remains in question.

 

[NeedAClew 1,148]

Did Mayo and Calder make the disastrous US media deal?

[Horn Rock 1,323]

[Horn Rock 1,323]

^^^^ Photos from Chris Weissenborn

[Kate short for Bob 265]

3 hours ago, fish7yu said:

But really this is not over. Where is the hatchet buried ? Somewhere in MBIE? What happens if Team NZ successfully defends the cup and has to re-negotiate with the government?

The dispute might be over, but the trust will not be readily rebuilt, and for a further defence it must be.

A further defence won’t involve Mayo and Calder. The firm was sacked by Team NZ and let go by event partner, the Italian Challenger of Record.

Team New Zealand is now suing Mayo and Calder, and vice versa. The judgement exercised by MBIE at the start of this row remains in question.

FFS can't this Muppet of a journalist let it go?  Still trying to generate smoke where there isn't any.  Perhaps the NZ Herald should issue an apology?

[jaysper 612]

2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

FFS can't this Muppet of a journalist let it go?  Still trying to generate smoke where there isn't any.  Perhaps the NZ Herald should issue an apology?

He's actually kinda right.

Many Government officials are petty little tyrants and Dalton is renowned for holding a grudge.

[Kate short for Bob 265]

Just now, jaysper said:

He's actually kinda right.

Many Government officials are petty little tyrants and Dalton is renowned for holding a grudge.

How quick do we forget all the other shyte that the writer didn't get "kinda right" but got absolutely dead set wrong.

[Mozzy Sails 651]

So, the different foils on either side? Are ETNZ the only team in the Christmas regatta running different foils? Still testing alternatives, or some racing reason?

[rh3000 1,604]

45 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

FFS can't this Muppet of a journalist let it go?  Still trying to generate smoke where there isn't any.  Perhaps the NZ Herald should issue an apology?

This isn't the Herald it's Todd Niall*, who is a pretty good journo in my book. His comments are valid IMHO.

*Or as Bruno likes to call him just after he has said his name - "Neil!"

[Kate short for Bob 265]

14 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

This isn't the Herald it's Todd Niall*, who is a pretty good journo in my book. His comments are valid IMHO.

*Or as Bruno likes to call him just after he has said his name - "Neil!"

Ok so its Stuff that he writes for.  The media outfit that recently had a feeble attempt at being woke.

The reality is it was always a nothing story and now all the journos are back peddling faster than an AC75 off its foils!

Why doesn't these journos do a thorough investigation of the piss poor management of these mega Govt Departments namely MBIE and MPI.

[rh3000 1,604]

10 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Ok so its Stuff that he writes for.  The media outfit that recently had a feeble attempt at being woke.

The reality is it was always a nothing story and now all the journos are back peddling faster than an AC75 off its foils!

Why doesn't these journos do a thorough investigation of the piss poor management of these mega Govt Departments namely MBIE and MPI.

Reading between the lines, I think that's his angle :-)

[Kate short for Bob 265]

37 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Reading between the lines, I think that's his angle :-)

I hope so.  Both Departments have over 3,000 people working for them EACH!  That's 6,000 people on an AVERAGE of $115,000 per annum.  You only need to look at the difference in cultures between them and those that produce real innovation and generate wealth for the country.  Probably 5,980 of those employees wouldn't cope in a organisation like ETNZ where there are long hours at all hours and continual pressure to excel and perform.

[Kiwing 383]

1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

So, the different foils on either side? Are ETNZ the only team in the Christmas regatta running different foils? Still testing alternatives, or some racing reason?

Starboard tack right of way?

[NZL3481 383]

18 hours ago, JJD said:

Im looking forward to Smackdaddys public apology

or one of his aliases...

[Forourselves 1,160]

The silence from TE is deafening.

[hoom 567]

19 hours ago, Barnyb said:

The dispute between MBIE and ETNZ regarding the class cost rules has been resolved with MBIE accepting that the costs have been correctly apportioned as a cost of the event.

Thats a cop-out.

My read of the statement is MBIE still (correctly) considers the class rule is not a host cost but they're essentially giving the $3mil to ETNZ to make the controversy go away for the best of the cup.

 

Its true this shouldn't have been a big open conflict but if the class development cost was a host cost it should have been explicitly stated in the host agreement (it wasn't) & this question would have been resolved behind doors during the negotiation of that agreement.

[Kate short for Bob 265]

10 minutes ago, hoom said:

My read of the statement is MBIE still (correctly) considers the class rule is not a host cost but they're essentially giving the $3mil to ETNZ to make the controversy go away for the best of the cup.

Or it could be read that MBIE's lawyers told MBIE management that they were on a hiding to nothing and better to pay up than lose.  You may well consider the class rule to not be a host cost (it is actually an Event cost) however the agreements that were signed to must clearly show legally that it isn't.

Note that ETNZ and ACE are still pursuing legal action against "other" parties.  One of which will be Mayo and Calder.

[Ncik 154]

5 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

So, the different foils on either side? Are ETNZ the only team in the Christmas regatta running different foils? Still testing alternatives, or some racing reason?

If there was only one course that was assymetric (like san fransisco), then I would argue that the boat shouldn't be symetric, but with so many courses in play and gates top and bottom it is probably just for testing. Unless they have found an advantage in the starts, maybe quicker take-off on starboard.

They would have run thousands of virtual races on all the courses with accurate weather simulations (kiwis were definitely doing this in the IACC days), so maybe they've found gains with more time spent on a certain tack, or a certain gate rounding, or a starboard take-off at the start.

[uflux 639]

3 minutes ago, Ncik said:

If there was only one course that was assymetric (like san fransisco), then I would argue that the boat shouldn't be symetric, but with so many courses in play and gates top and bottom it is probably just for testing. Unless they have found an advantage in the starts, maybe quicker take-off on starboard.

They would have run thousands of virtual races on all the courses with accurate weather simulations (kiwis were definitely doing this in the IACC days), so maybe they've found gains with more time spent on a certain tack, or a certain gate rounding, or a starboard take-off at the start.

They have one set of foils left of their allocation. So I suspect these were two design solutions still to be finalised 

[Apterix 91]

 

5 minutes ago, uflux said:

They have one set of foils left of their allocation. So I suspect these were two design solutions still to be finalised 

If the like both of their existing foils, but these foils are preferred in different wind ranges they could duplicate each and wait to see what the weather brings before deciding which pair to put on the race boat.  Or they could try a new foil and compare it to their existing foils before deciding which of the three options to duplicate.  Be interesting to see what approach they take.   

[Indio 891]

8 hours ago, hoom said:

Thats a cop-out.

My read of the statement is MBIE still (correctly) considers the class rule is not a host cost but they're essentially giving the $3mil to ETNZ to make the controversy go away for the best of the cup.

Its true this shouldn't have been a big open conflict but if the class development cost was a host cost it should have been explicitly stated in the host agreement (it wasn't) & this question would have been resolved behind doors during the negotiation of that agreement.

Give it a rest or your ulcer will implode. MBIE have been bitch-slapped by Stuart Nash for their incompetence, with Tremain having brownie points deduction noted on her record. She's heading for early retirement soon..

[DayTripper 48]

17 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Did Mayo and Calder make the disastrous US media deal?

I'd very much like to know how that one came about.

[Boybland 548]

16 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

So, the different foils on either side? Are ETNZ the only team in the Christmas regatta running different foils? Still testing alternatives, or some racing reason?

Almost certainly testing.

Although one other possibility is to create two sets of race foils (by matching one each of the Christmas regatta set with the final two).  Then waiting until the very last minute before the America's Cup proper to decide which ones to use.

I doubt it and think they will unleash a proper set of race foils in fairly short order, but the possibility is there while they still have two foils up their sleeve.

[barfy 1,113]

1 hour ago, Boybland said:

Almost certainly testing.

Although one other possibility is to create two sets of race foils (by matching one each of the Christmas regatta set with the final two).  Then waiting until the very last minute before the America's Cup proper to decide which ones to use.

I doubt it and think they will unleash a proper set of race foils in fairly short order, but the possibility is there while they still have two foils up their sleeve.

Could be subterfuge...not give any clear direction when they can still be copied. Bets on the Match foils not looking like either of these?

[JALhazmat 1,170]

31 minutes ago, barfy said:

Could be subterfuge...not give any clear direction when they can still be copied. Bets on the Match foils not looking like either of these?

I recon the heavily delta foils last seen on te Kahu  will make an appearance. 
 

[barfy 1,113]

9 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

I recon the heavily delta foils last seen on te Kahu  will make an appearance. 
 

Door 3..sounds plausible. Just need to remember the padded jerseys. 

[JALhazmat 1,170]

Re the padded jersey.. is there any link anywhere to this? Team wearing them as a deliberate Strategy 

or was it a case of them wearing pads/body protect too. During the ACWS events and it being interpreted as misdirection 

genuinely intrigued by this 

[barfy 1,113]

3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Re the padded jersey.. is there any link anywhere to this? Team wearing them as a deliberate Strategy 

or was it a case of them wearing pads/body protect too. During the ACWS events and it being interpreted as misdirection 

genuinely intrigued by this 

I think we've had a call out before to where this came from...and no link surfaced.

Im sure it came out in an interview with ??? Discussing the boys taking bike rides auck.to the coromandal..some 70k, then taking the ferry home. 

Maybe urban legend? But it does illustrate the lengths this team goes to not to be copied prematurely...after..you know, all the tears and such.

[JALhazmat 1,170]

Yeah i remember the story/urban legend but wanted to know if it was based in fact or an off the cuff remark from Ashby 

guess we will never know 

[Barnyb 395]

11 hours ago, Indio said:

Give it a rest or your ulcer will implode. MBIE have been bitch-slapped by Stuart Nash for their incompetence, with Tremain having brownie points deduction noted on her record. She's heading for early retirement soon..

"She's heading for early retirement soon."

Early? she is old and should have been put to pasture a long time ago.

 

 

 

[Sailbydate 2,575]

Merry Christmas to all you argumentative, bastards.

Hope you have a relaxing day with friends and family tomorrow. Best regards and take care out there.

[Varan 1,927]

^ peace

[minimumfuss 232]

6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Merry Christmas to all you argumentative, bastards.

Hope you have a relaxing day with friends and family tomorrow. Best regards and take care out there.

Fuck off I'm not argumentative. 

Merry Xmas to all and thanks for all the fish

[167149 134]

On 12/22/2020 at 9:18 AM, uflux said:

It appears TR and LR have one set of foils left AM and the bradford van  have used their allocation. 

FIFY

[jaysper 612]

1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Merry Christmas to all you argumentative, bastards.

Hope you have a relaxing day with friends and family tomorrow. Best regards and take care out there.

Cheers SBD, and a happy fuck you xmas to you too!

[terrafirma 1,062]

1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Merry Christmas to all you argumentative, bastards.

Hope you have a relaxing day with friends and family tomorrow. Best regards and take care out there.

Good luck with that SBD..! But other than that I would also like to wish everyone a fantastic Xmas and New Year.! May your new years resolution be to cease arguing with Sailing Anarchy.! 

[kiwi39 44]

On 12/22/2020 at 5:38 AM, The_Alchemist said:

There several times the wind got up to above 7 knots during the displacement race and they could not get up.

.... or didnt want to ... 

[MaxHugen 698]

3 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Merry Christmas to all you argumentative, bastards.

Hope you have a relaxing day with friends and family tomorrow. Best regards and take care out there.

Yeah, hope all you fellow SA fanatics have a totally enjoyable Xmas, and a safe, healthy 2021!

Meanwhile, I'll be wondering what to do on Boxing Day, with no Sydney-Hobart race to keep me entertained.

Cheers, Max

[Rhumline 42]

1 hour ago, kiwi39 said:

.... or didnt want to ... 

Couldn't, simple as that.  And that may be their undoing come March unless there's a wee bit cut off the back.

All the best for the festive season by the way.

[Rennmaus 2,316]

Stay safe, everyone, and...

[MaxHugen 698]

2 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Stay safe, everyone, and...

Hahaha... love the seagull... "Mine..mine..mine..mine..."'

Have a good one!

(I watch too many kids movies with the grandkids)

[Nutta 390]

[dullers 405]

Seeing as Christmas comes to the lovely Islands of New Zealand first, I wish all KIwis a very Happy Christmas with your loved ones and friends.

[Liquid 290]

13 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Merry Christmas to all you argumentative, bastards.

Hope you have a relaxing day with friends and family that have all been tested and quarantined for the previous 2 weeks!

Best regards and take care out there.

FIFY

[jaysper 612]

7 hours ago, Nutta said:

Good effort however bit of a butter face.

[Nutta 390]

Sorry, never got as far as admiring her face...

[dorox 145]

Fun fact: when they tack, just for a brief moment they fly at 3x wind speed straight into the wind. And so far nobody can match that. NZ vs US and ITA below. 

Although to be fair, NZ are also loosing quite a bit after such fierce tacks in lighter winds.

[D_Dog 65]

1 hour ago, dorox said:

Fun fact: when they tack, just for a brief moment they fly at 3x wind speed straight into the wind. And so far nobody can match that. NZ vs US and ITA below. 

Although to be fair, NZ are also loosing quite a bit after such fierce tacks in lighter winds.

Great Fun Fact.

When ETNZ tacks, visually it does appear that the coast directly upwind for a bit so this data seems to support this. Seems to be a different technique to Bermuda where they seemed to get through as quick as possibly. 

[fish7yu 472]

America’s Cup: Afterguard analysis – Emirates Team New Zealand

- 28th December 2020

America’s Cup: Afterguard analysis – Emirates Team New Zealand

 

 

Let's not forget Andy Maloney & Josh Junior, whom also plays key roles during maneuvers, they are top class sailors, obviously their input are invaluable on the totoal scheme of things.

[17mika 169]

3 hours ago, dorox said:

Fun fact: when they tack, just for a brief moment they fly at 3x wind speed straight into the wind. And so far nobody can match that. NZ vs US and ITA below. 

Although to be fair, NZ are also loosing quite a bit after such fierce tacks in lighter winds.

Very interesting thanks.

From whicj days are these graph from?

[Mozzy Sails 651]

3 hours ago, D_Dog said:

Great Fun Fact.

When ETNZ tacks, visually it does appear that the coast directly upwind for a bit so this data seems to support this. Seems to be a different technique to Bermuda where they seemed to get through as quick as possibly. 

Do you see that?

High peak VMG in the tack suggests they carry more speed up to head to wind. Which you would expect from a quicker turn rate as they spend less time decelerating between close hauled and head to wind. 

A coasting tack would have a lower peak VMG and a longer time between one tack and the other. I don't really see that in these graphs. 

[Indio 891]

Hear, hear Magnus..

Quiet Man

Shouty billionaires are long the preserve of the America’s Cup. For some it becomes an addiction. For most, they get spat out the back, discarded at the roadside or dumped by an unforgiving stock market. They return home bruised and battle scarred with little to show for their efforts other than a nice set of team oilskins, a polo shirt or two, a couple of unsellable carbon lumps and some over-priced tenders. The wife and kids look at them differently, mentally counting up just how much of their inheritance has just been blown and wondering how they will get by on the remainder. And now all family efforts are spent on how they will stop the old boy doing it all again in a fit of madness.

But whilst they are in the event, it’s wonderful. For a couple of months an adoring, fawning sailing media have windows into their lives of extreme luxury and glowing column inches are filled with stories of a life lived at excess. Photographers turn up to take shots on superyachts. Being the summer, they look healthy and at play. It’s all a far cry from the cool dusty air of the city boardroom. A break from driving workforces into the ground. A holiday from ruthlessness. A vacation from corporate life. It’s blissful. The best $100m they ever spent.

©Richard Hodder / Emirates Team New Zealand

Whilst that is the story for some. Others do it differently and the blueprint for doing it properly has been cast in stone. Dr Matteo de Nora sits at the very apex of the apex as Team Principal at Emirates Team New Zealand and is the quiet, supportive, guiding genius behind the team and the only person Grant Dalton defers to. Period. Dalton refers to him as his ‘mentor’ and that’s quite something. Whilst Dalton obsesses about winning, de Nora sees the challenge. It’s a potent mix at the top of the world’s best sailing team.

So what do we know of de Nora? Not a lot if truth be told. His father was Italian, his mother Swiss. He was, as Springsteen’s song says, born in the USA but is a Canadian national and now lives in the playboy’s playground of Monaco. He treats New Zealand as a second home and is more likely to be found in quiet coves off the Bay of Islands (where he has a pad) than the fleshpots of the Mediterranean. In his youth he was a petrol-head, racing and crashing powerboats so the Cup doesn’t hark back to some Swallows & Amazons romanticism of a youth spent on the riverbanks. De Nora is full octane.

©Richard Hodder / Emirates Team New Zealand

And in business he oversaw an electrochemical empire that he inherited from his father, grew it and has long since divested to the family. Smart man. And rather than do what most of us would do, he got involved quietly in the America’s Cup as a supporter of Sir Peter Blake’s efforts and naturally progressed on to Dalton’s.

Few would argue that without de Nora, Team New Zealand wouldn’t be where they are today. When the dust settled on the 2003 Cup disaster after all the major talent had upped sticks to the darkside, Team New Zealand was looking like a busted flush. Perfect for de Nora. He stepped up again and saw in Dalton a will to win and a talent that needed supporting. And support he did. Right up to the present day, through all the highs and all the crushing lows that elite sport brings. And with Team New Zealand it has been a rollercoaster ride. Not for the faint hearted. It’s a remarkable period of support from a truly remarkable individual.

Most men of wealth would see coming second in Valencia and again, crushingly, in San Francisco as the cue to exit the sport. Not de Nora. He sees the world differently. Remember it’s the challenge that appeals, not necessarily the winning. Leave the winning to Dalton and the boys. Let them take the limelight and bare their souls. Team Principals should be different. Have a different philosophy. See the bigger picture. Rise above the clamour. Cajole, support, lend an ear. It’s an incredible skill delivered only by those with vision and clarity. Let’s be honest, that’s rare in the Cup. Very rare.

©Emirates Team New Zealand

Today, with Team New Zealand sitting in the box seat, the outright favourites (despite what the Italian media, bless them, would have you think), de Nora is the quiet man with the Cup in his pocket. He’s seen it all before. He’s walked the walk and can stroll easily in the pantheon of the greatest Team Principals ever to grace the sport. The Kiwis know what they’ve got. The rest of the world is waking up to it.

With little else to achieve, I wonder what’s next?

[dullers 405]

9 minutes ago, Indio said:

Hear, hear Magnus..

Quiet Man

Shouty billionaires are long the preserve of the America’s Cup. For some it becomes an addiction. For most, they get spat out the back, discarded at the roadside or dumped by an unforgiving stock market. They return home bruised and battle scarred with little to show for their efforts other than a nice set of team oilskins, a polo shirt or two, a couple of unsellable carbon lumps and some over-priced tenders. The wife and kids look at them differently, mentally counting up just how much of their inheritance has just been blown and wondering how they will get by on the remainder. And now all family efforts are spent on how they will stop the old boy doing it all again in a fit of madness.

But whilst they are in the event, it’s wonderful. For a couple of months an adoring, fawning sailing media have windows into their lives of extreme luxury and glowing column inches are filled with stories of a life lived at excess. Photographers turn up to take shots on superyachts. Being the summer, they look healthy and at play. It’s all a far cry from the cool dusty air of the city boardroom. A break from driving workforces into the ground. A holiday from ruthlessness. A vacation from corporate life. It’s blissful. The best $100m they ever spent.

©Richard Hodder / Emirates Team New Zealand

Whilst that is the story for some. Others do it differently and the blueprint for doing it properly has been cast in stone. Dr Matteo de Nora sits at the very apex of the apex as Team Principal at Emirates Team New Zealand and is the quiet, supportive, guiding genius behind the team and the only person Grant Dalton defers to. Period. Dalton refers to him as his ‘mentor’ and that’s quite something. Whilst Dalton obsesses about winning, de Nora sees the challenge. It’s a potent mix at the top of the world’s best sailing team.

So what do we know of de Nora? Not a lot if truth be told. His father was Italian, his mother Swiss. He was, as Springsteen’s song says, born in the USA but is a Canadian national and now lives in the playboy’s playground of Monaco. He treats New Zealand as a second home and is more likely to be found in quiet coves off the Bay of Islands (where he has a pad) than the fleshpots of the Mediterranean. In his youth he was a petrol-head, racing and crashing powerboats so the Cup doesn’t hark back to some Swallows & Amazons romanticism of a youth spent on the riverbanks. De Nora is full octane.

©Richard Hodder / Emirates Team New Zealand

And in business he oversaw an electrochemical empire that he inherited from his father, grew it and has long since divested to the family. Smart man. And rather than do what most of us would do, he got involved quietly in the America’s Cup as a supporter of Sir Peter Blake’s efforts and naturally progressed on to Dalton’s.

Few would argue that without de Nora, Team New Zealand wouldn’t be where they are today. When the dust settled on the 2003 Cup disaster after all the major talent had upped sticks to the darkside, Team New Zealand was looking like a busted flush. Perfect for de Nora. He stepped up again and saw in Dalton a will to win and a talent that needed supporting. And support he did. Right up to the present day, through all the highs and all the crushing lows that elite sport brings. And with Team New Zealand it has been a rollercoaster ride. Not for the faint hearted. It’s a remarkable period of support from a truly remarkable individual.

Most men of wealth would see coming second in Valencia and again, crushingly, in San Francisco as the cue to exit the sport. Not de Nora. He sees the world differently. Remember it’s the challenge that appeals, not necessarily the winning. Leave the winning to Dalton and the boys. Let them take the limelight and bare their souls. Team Principals should be different. Have a different philosophy. See the bigger picture. Rise above the clamour. Cajole, support, lend an ear. It’s an incredible skill delivered only by those with vision and clarity. Let’s be honest, that’s rare in the Cup. Very rare.

©Emirates Team New Zealand

Today, with Team New Zealand sitting in the box seat, the outright favourites (despite what the Italian media, bless them, would have you think), de Nora is the quiet man with the Cup in his pocket. He’s seen it all before. He’s walked the walk and can stroll easily in the pantheon of the greatest Team Principals ever to grace the sport. The Kiwis know what they’ve got. The rest of the world is waking up to it.

With little else to achieve, I wonder what’s next?

Unfortunately the rest of the world follows soccer.  Myself and about 20 other people follow it from outside of NZ. I wish more people followed it as it is a great sport to watch. New Zealand will put on a good show and Auckland is a great place to hold it.  Anyway I thought the KIwis were operating on a 50 NZD budget?

[JALhazmat 1,170]

1 minute ago, dullers said:

Unfortunately the rest of the world follows soccer.  Myself and about 20 other people follow it from outside of NZ. I wish more people followed it as it is a great sport to watch. New Zealand will put on a good show and Auckland is a great place to hold it.  Anyway I thought the KIwis were operating on a 50 NZD budget?

Shoestring budget.underfunded, billionaires against the little guy. .. keep repeating it. ;-) 

turns out everyone has their own billionaire and stupid budgets, petro chemical/electro chemical?  I wonder if matteo and Jim will sit down and chat over what made their money? ( obviously the De Nora  billions are ethically sourced pure as the driven snow) because kiwis wouldn’t accept dirty money. 

[nav 576]

Defensive much - no one even mentioned TeamFruk 

[JALhazmat 1,170]

I thought you kiwis loved a bit of gentle hypocrisy?  

[nav 576]

Heads down & work hard would be my advice, there's no time for mud slinging - you have disasters on both sides of the globe that need sorting fast! 

[dullers 405]

1 hour ago, nav said:

Defensive much - no one even mentioned TeamFruk 

I have no idea what Team Brexit is spending. Nor do I really have a clue about the budget for Team Middle East.  

[dullers 405]

1 hour ago, nav said:

Heads down & work hard would be my advice, there's no time for mud slinging - you have disasters on both sides of the globe that need sorting fast! 

I will pass your advice onto the Prime Minister of GB. We will wait and see as to what the future holds for both our countries in regards to the virus. I hope you continue to avoid it.

[JALhazmat 1,170]

1 hour ago, nav said:

Heads down & work hard would be my advice, there's no time for mud slinging - you have disasters on both sides of the globe that need sorting fast! 

‘I’ have neither thank you. 
 

 

[Indio 891]

7 hours ago, nav said:

Defensive much - no one even mentioned TeamFruk 

Our resident whinging pom needs a block on the other shoulder for balance. Must come from 170+ years of failure in AC.

[jaysper 612]

8 hours ago, dullers said:

Unfortunately the rest of the world follows soccer.  Myself and about 20 other people follow it from outside of NZ. I wish more people followed it as it is a great sport to watch. New Zealand will put on a good show and Auckland is a great place to hold it.  Anyway I thought the KIwis were operating on a 50 NZD budget?

The $100 mill is a generic figure rather than for a specific team.

However I doubt ETNZ are operating on $50 Million. Definitely less than the rest as they have the home ground advantage and tend to be more frugal than other teams.

But $50 million? Yeah, nah.

Dalton has seemingly always lied about figures as part of his PR strategy such that it is.

[JALhazmat 1,170]

52 minutes ago, Indio said:

Our resident whinging pom needs a block on the other shoulder for balance. Must come from 170+ years of failure in AC.

And what pray tell does the forums notoriously  racially intolerant poster need for balance ?

[jaysper 612]

28 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

And what pray tell does the forums notoriously  racially intolerant poster need for balance ?

Please don't quote Spindio, I've had her blocked for the last 4+ years for a reason.

[dullers 405]

1 hour ago, Indio said:

Our resident whinging pom needs a block on the other shoulder for balance. Must come from 170+ years of failure in AC.

We have failed at a lot of things. I am sure we will fail at a whole lot more.  But nevertheless here we are in storm and in calm.

[Forourselves 1,160]

56 knots!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123840138/americas-cup-team-new-zealand-smash-100kmh-barrier?cid=app-iPhone

[jaysper 612]

15 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

56 knots!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123840138/americas-cup-team-new-zealand-smash-100kmh-barrier?cid=app-iPhone

Doesn't mean a whole lot really.

Artemis smoked us on the reach in Bermuda and then got run down pretty much every time.

I guess high performance on the reach is valuable in marginal conditions where you are trying to get up on your foils.

But does 56 knots on the reach in 20+ knots of breeze translate into similarly amazing performance on the reach in 7 knots of breeze?

[Rasputin22 2,658]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:09 PM, The_Alchemist said:

snap

 

[uflux 639]

20 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Doesn't mean a whole lot really.

Artemis smoked us on the reach in Bermuda and then got run down pretty much every time.

I guess high performance on the reach is valuable in marginal conditions where you are trying to get up on your foils.

But does 56 knots on the reach in 20+ knots of breeze translate into similarly amazing performance on the reach in 7 knots of breeze?

Considering their impressive VMG as well I think we can be impressed. ETNZ are aware of what the point is...

[jaysper 612]

3 minutes ago, uflux said:

Considering their impressive VMG as well I think we can be impressed. ETNZ are aware of what the point is...

Oh for sure.

My point was more that this is a fluff piece with ETNZ just doing a bit of PR.

[uflux 639]

18 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Oh for sure.

My point was more that this is a fluff piece with ETNZ just doing a bit of PR.

Yes agreed no shortage of fluff around here 

[Forourselves 1,160]

While it’s impressive, it’s absolutely right that it means nothing. Beating your opponent around the track is all that matters. 

[dullers 405]

Well if you read the article it is another one of those We have news about another news where no one claimed anything directly.... 

[jaysper 612]

11 minutes ago, dullers said:

Well if you read the article it is another one of those We have news about another news where no one claimed anything directly.... 

I went and read the Gtrans version of the article and it does appear that Verdier claimed the 56 knots. So this does not appear to be such an egregious mis reporting of the facts that we have come to know and love from NZ media.

[dullers 405]

8 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I went and read the Gtrans version of the article and it does appear that Verdier claimed the 56 knots. So this does not appear to be such an egregious mis reporting of the facts that we have come to know and love from NZ media.

Read it carefully. They do quote him for something but it is not to do with speed.  They go to say they understand etc etc but do not quote him. Paris match claimed....Stuff understands. They have set out intentionally to deceive the reader and get click bate for the Kiwis. I have also read the translation of Paris match and again he is not quoted on the speeds. They seem to pluck that from somewhere else. They dont say where...I edited this by the way as I read more.

[jaysper 612]

7 minutes ago, dullers said:

Read it carefully. They do quote him for something but it is not to do with speed.  They go to say they understand etc etc but do not quote him. Paris match claimed....Stuff understands. They have set out intentionally to deceive the reader and get click bate for the Kiwis.

Ah fairy nuff, I'm carrying a mega head cold so probably didn't take as much care reading the Translish as I should have.

Oh well, I can sleep peacefully again as all is well with the world. NZ Herald is indeed low grade loo paper.

[dullers 405]

1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Ah fairy nuff, I'm carrying a mega head cold so probably didn't take as much care reading the Translish as I should have.

Oh well, I can sleep peacefully again as all is well with the world. NZ Herald is indeed low grade loo paper.

This is most papers now. It is sad for us all that we have read it with an eye open to being deceived.. 

[mako23 436]

13 minutes ago, dullers said:

This is most papers now. It is sad for us all that we have read it with an eye open to being deceived.. 

Most papers have falling readership numbers and hence smaller incomes. Investigational journalism is now becoming a dead art, its  far too expensive. 

[jaysper 612]

9 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Most papers have falling readership numbers and hence smaller incomes. Investigational journalism is now becoming a dead art, its  far too expensive. 

Yep, they recycle the shit out of most "news" and interview their keyboards for most of the residual.

People have also become far too precious to hear competing views, so all the rags left and right create an echo chamber for their target audiences for fear of offending anyone.

[nav 576]

https://www.facebook.com/AmericasCup/videos/868278570594918/

Throwing it around....

[uflux 639]

I am expecting to see their final foils after new years

[jaysper 612]

5 minutes ago, uflux said:

I am expecting to see their final foils after new years

Given New Years is tomorrow,  that's a safe bet. ;-)

 

Given that these foils are supposedly a lot quicker to build than the  Bermuda ones, they may choose to delay these foils till end of January or later to prevent copy catting. 

[atwinda 95]

20 hours ago, jaysper said:

Given that these foils are supposedly a lot quicker to build than the  Bermuda ones, they may choose to delay these foils till end of January or later to prevent copy catting. 

Who is going to copy them? INEOS and AM are out of foils, and LRPP would have had to commit to final designs for theirs by now. Each team is well down their own design paths, and I very much doubt that copying foils would help as the whole foil, platform, and sail package would have to adjust as well.

[jaysper 612]

21 minutes ago, atwinda said:

Who is going to copy them? INEOS and AM are out of foils, and LRPP would have had to commit to final designs for theirs by now. Each team is well down their own design paths, and I very much doubt that copying foils would help as the whole foil, platform, and sail package would have to adjust as well.

Remember it's not just foils, it's the flaps too, which each team will undoubtedly have more of up their sleeves.

Plus you'd be amazed what you can do with 20% mods.