Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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1 hour ago, RobG said:

As for LR representing their own interests before anyone else's, so what?

Agree 100%. They now realise that being CoR is likely an impediment to a successful challenge.

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1 hour ago, RobG said:

The discussion was about the partisan statement on the official AC36 web site, which should stay neutral and should not cast aspersions on a particular team, like this: DEFENDER AND CHALLENGER OF RECORD REQUEST MEDIATION OF THE MATCH CONDITIONS. That is a far better statement. If ENTZ want to stir things up, there are plenty of other forums for them to do so. I'd link to the original statement but can't be bothered to try and find it.

As for LR representing their own interests before anyone else's, so what? As has been discussed to death, they aren't required to consider or seek agreement on anything with other challengers in negotiations over things to be agreed between COR and defender in the protocol (such as sailing conditions).

 

 

Actually, the "statement" that's got your knickers in a twist is on ETNZ's web site where they can publish whatever they want - not on the AC36 site.

You are correct that LR are simply following what more recent CoRs have done: looked after their own interests, as ETNZ know only too well as they were frozen out of all decisions by CoRs. But I'd expected LR to be a bit more inclusive of the other 2 Challengers

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

So you're saying ETNZ has a surrogate secretly training somewhere? Would love to see a pic.

ETNZ did say they were building a mule some time back - no big secret.

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3 minutes ago, Indio said:

ETNZ did say they were building a mule some time back - no big secret.

Yeah I recall hearing that, but has anyone seen it? Where are they operating it? RH hints at a cove somewhere. Damn NZ coastline is filled with coves and bays. Doubt it would be a lake because of the different buoyancy.

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9 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Yeah I recall hearing that, but has anyone seen it? Where are they operating it? RH hints at a cove somewhere. Damn NZ coastline is filled with coves and bays. Doubt it would be a lake because of the different buoyancy.

To be 100% transparent there some things I know, and there are some things I do not - in this case I have zero knowledge of any existence of the mule beyond what ETNZ have discussed publicly and the run of the mill rumours that we all have heard.

There's an argument to be had that the shore and boat building team would be so busy on moding and modding B1 that anything else would have been a distraction. There's another argument that they would have had plenty of time to knock out a smaller boat and cart it to any number of places out of site for some testing, all whilst everyone fixated on Flipper.

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On 1/8/2020 at 12:27 PM, phill_nz said:

i have done pretty much every type of ras ( replenishment at sea ) currently in use by every nato navy and some rare ones that are no longer used or just very rarely used 

that includes vertrep with out own chopper ( hmnzs canterbury ) and with choppers from other navies and ships on ships that didnt carry one ( hmnzs otago and hmnzs taranaki )

You might have vertrepped the Queen for all I care. I do concede I misunderstood exactly what you were suggesting :o

But that still doesn't make pre-emptively rush-deploying Canterbury with massive chopper logistical effort to get it properly supplied/crewed while underway, during xmas break, at a time when the Aus Govt wasn't even interested in properly utilising their own bigger, closer, better funded ships & there was no indication that large numbers of people would need evacuation from beaches a sensible suggestion.

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On 1/14/2020 at 1:34 PM, justsomeone said:

17.5 The bowsprit shall not be bonded to the hull and must be removable for easy replacement.

My reading of the rules is they have to be in place during racing. You can take it off during training. 

I've been assuming there will be a rule amendment making the bowsprit optional.

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3 hours ago, hoom said:

there was no indication that large numbers of people would need evacuation from beaches a sensible suggestion.

yes there was

thats why i was so pissed they took so long .. to do nothing

 

and its no biggie at all to supply the necessities

i said most of what she needed would already be onboard

personnel and food was the only things of note

food she would have some to a lot ( an unknown .. but it would be extremely rare that there wasnt enough for a week at least .. not including fresh milk )

personnel would mostly be recalled easily or already onboard or able to be picked up in aussie when they arrived .. so maybe half a dozen of the senior hard to replace crew at most and even then we have used half crewed ships with little difference to efficiency ( at worst there are plenty on the shore base and other ships that can be crash draughted ( we once crash draughted from memory 5 for a 6 month far east patrol .. they were given less than an hours notice before we sailed .. no biggie .. unusual but not a rare thing  )

its a ship that was brought for emergencies if silly sindy and her part time thinkers are not capable of forward planning .. then its obviously to much for her and she should resign as pm

 

 

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1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

its a ship that was brought for emergencies if silly sindy and her part time thinkers are not capable of forward planning .. then its obviously to much for her and she should resign as pm

How come you're not having a smack at Ron Mark?

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5 hours ago, rh3000 said:

To be 100% transparent there some things I know, and there are some things I do not - in this case I have zero knowledge of any existence of the mule beyond what ETNZ have discussed publicly and the run of the mill rumours that we all have heard.

There's an argument to be had that the shore and boat building team would be so busy on moding and modding B1 that anything else would have been a distraction. There's another argument that they would have had plenty of time to knock out a smaller boat and cart it to any number of places out of site for some testing, all whilst everyone fixated on Flipper.

I guess they will have all the time they need while race boat 1 is on the cargo to Italy->Race->UK->Race ecc...

We also have to remember that when they tested the foiling for AC72 on the lake, nobody was aware of that...
Thinking out load... nobody stated that their mule is actually  build in NZ and sailed in NZ... with an unlimited budget, I would have gone to an unknown place and set up a miniature second base for the Kiwi-mule operations.

 

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8 hours ago, DayTripper said:

How come you're not having a smack at Ron Mark?

i did

pm, defence, and civil defence all got a mention

silly sindy picked them as her team

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55 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

i did

pm, defence, and civil defence all got a mention

silly sindy picked them as her team

Ok. Finish up now. Take it to an editorial somewhere where it counts.

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8 hours ago, ITA602 said:

We also have to remember that when they tested the foiling for AC72 on the lake, nobody was aware of that...
Thinking out load... nobody stated that their mule is actually  build in NZ and sailed in NZ... with an unlimited budget, I would have gone to an unknown place and set up a miniature second base for the Kiwi-mule operations.

Always remember the padded jerseys. What we see is certainly not the real story; it's a cool story, but only that.

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55 minutes ago, barfy said:

Ok. Finish up now. Take it to an editorial somewhere where it counts. 

im happy to

im only correcting or answering accusations directed at me

ie

im not the one rehashing dead stuff

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What a load of horse shit. The boat building yard in Rosedale has been quite busy with plenty of staff turning up over the last few months. Several team members have been spreading the rumour that a mini boat is coming. This, being over several months however and we have yet to see it. 

Believe nothing until you see the pictures. 

 

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8. ELIGIBILITY OF YACHTS.
Only the yachts complying with the AC75 Class Rule are eligible to compete in the Preliminary
Regattas, the CSS and the Match. However, COR/D may introduce alternative arrangements
for one or more of the ACWS events depending upon the number of Competitors and the
then number of AC 75 yachts available to compete at the time of the event.

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16 hours ago, Indio said:

Actually, the "statement" that's got your knickers in a twist is on ETNZ's web site where they can publish whatever they want - not on the AC36 site.

Actually, you're correct on that. Please accept my apology.

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14 hours ago, phill_nz said:

yes there was

thats why i was so pissed they took so long .. to do nothing

 

and its no biggie at all to supply the necessities

i said most of what she needed would already be onboard

personnel and food was the only things of note

food she would have some to a lot ( an unknown .. but it would be extremely rare that there wasnt enough for a week at least .. not including fresh milk )

personnel would mostly be recalled easily or already onboard or able to be picked up in aussie when they arrived .. so maybe half a dozen of the senior hard to replace crew at most and even then we have used half crewed ships with little difference to efficiency ( at worst there are plenty on the shore base and other ships that can be crash draughted ( we once crash draughted from memory 5 for a 6 month far east patrol .. they were given less than an hours notice before we sailed .. no biggie .. unusual but not a rare thing  )

its a ship that was brought for emergencies if silly sindy and her part time thinkers are not capable of forward planning .. then its obviously to much for her and she should resign as pm

Jesus wept!  Like Barfy said, give it a rest. Puleeeze!

It was an Oz problem.  And Oz pols and bureaucrats eventually stopped sucking their thumbs and it solved it. Capice?

Yeah, we could have/may have/might have offered help, including HMNZS Choules. Perhaps we did. You don't bloody-well know. Neither do we.

None of this is justification to sling shit at our duly elected prime minister.

Got a beef with the gummint?  Take it to Political Anancy.

Otherwise .....  Stow it.

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And people were whinging about the subject matter in the NYYC thread? '

Puleeeze! I don't even know who any of these people are!!!

Do you Kiwis sail anymore or has this just become "Hunt For Red October" land?

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37 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Jesus wept!  Like Barfy said, give it a rest. Puleeeze! 

 

4 hours ago, phill_nz said:

im happy to

im only correcting or answering accusations directed at me

ie

im not the one rehashing dead stuff

you dont read well

but obviously feel the need to also carry on with stuff few are interested in

and what i think of silly sindy is from its actions ( or lack of )  .. political leaders are by no means sacred ground here

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8 hours ago, barfy said:

Always remember the padded jerseys.

I've seen that mentioned but never seen the story to which it refers. Got a link?

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4 hours ago, DayTripper said:

I've seen that mentioned but never seen the story to which it refers. Got a link?

Not offhand sorry. It was as I recall, an interview with GA? Also mentioned was team rides to the Coromandel, 70km? I remember mentioned, and the ferry home.

Please someone with a better memory correct me as a quick search yielded nought.

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On 1/18/2020 at 4:17 PM, smackdaddy said:

Do you Kiwis sail anymore or has this just become "Hunt For Red October" land

Most of the K1W1's in these threads are current or former sailors, sailing coaches or crew. We're clearly passionate about sailing as a competitive sport, a form of relaxation and adventure or as a way to get to remote places and have a BBQ and a beer. 

We learn to sail at a young age here as small yacht clubs are in almost every town that has access to water. As a sport it's cheap to get into as club owned boats are very affordable to use. The OK dinghy class has brought about an older group of people learning to sail. 

Sailing is social here. It's not an elitist sport although, at the highest echelon, like everywhere else it needs sponsorship money to compete.

Yes we sail. And anyone who looks up at cloth knows New Zealand competes well and supports sailing from the Optimist to the Americas Cup. 

What do you do for sailing @smackdaddy apart from raising stupid arguments in here for attention? 

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On 1/18/2020 at 7:52 PM, DayTripper said:

Always remember the padded jerseys

And to blow on the pies. 

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59 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

Sailing is social here. It's not an elitist sport

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Salty I don't know what parallel universe you are occupying but can you see Smack from where you are perched.

 

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"The view from the driver's seat. "

- ETNZ Facebook page.

Looks like the flaps on the foil are partially raised, so you can see the gaps at either end. 

82451739_10158051559863185_1697441968109387776_o.jpg

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makes sense, in that position the foil would be creating a small amount of righting moment from the airflow. (or neutralise any -ve righting moment)

also when they drop the arm, the wing will pull itself down into the water effectively assisting gravity and hydraulics to get it into position faster/easier

also once down and in this flap position they have more lift while pivoting around during tack/gybe

would suspect other teams will be doing similar

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5 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Salty I don't know what parallel universe you are occupying but can you see Smack from where you are perched.

 

Last time I looked, which was some time ago, he used the Devonport YC burgee as his profile picture. THAT’s the parallel universe he occupies. 

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8 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Salty I don't know what parallel universe you are occupying but can you see Smack from where you are perched.

 

No. Smack is far below me and working for wages per hour to pay taxes like a good little tic-toc troglodyte. 

Prissy, I dont know what uptight sailing club you attend when your not under a custodial sentence but, most are welcoming and social.

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Going by the webcam, it looks like a lot of packing going on at their base?

Yeah. I'd be surprised if we'll see much of Te Aihe after this weekend. 

Get your macro lens cleaned up weta.

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3 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Yeah. I'd be surprised if we'll see much of Te Aihe after this weekend. 

Get your macro lens cleaned up weta.

Moving to Cagliari already? Great, time to book the Sardinia ferry :)

 

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21 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Certainly look fast in this video but at times a little unsteady in the manoeuvres..

 

Agreed, comfortably more than 40 knots just after the bear away at around 1:50 https://youtu.be/3_azNjV7axA?t=117 one hull length a second is almost exactly 40 knots I believe and she is probably 10% up on that (using the mark one eyeball and .25 times speed on youtube is hardly accurate, but hey).

 

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30 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

When does the small boat make an appearance?

Pretty shortly after the big one is on a ship is what I've been told. Pete and Blair are concentrating on the 49ers for a couple of weeks, so maybe after that?

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Glad it's finally out so we can talk about it now...

Stealthy in action and in shape

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20 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Looks like a full sized surrogate. Can't wait to see some better pics.

Whatever it is, it can't be a "surrogate" as defined in the protocol since:

11.1 c) No Competitor shall acquire, sail or test any Surrogate Yacht as defined in this Protocol and the AC75 Class Rule

Where Surrogate Yacht is defined as:

…any monohull yacht exceeding 12m LOA which is capable of producing meaningful design or performance information for use either directly or indirectly in the design, construction or sailing of an AC75 yacht…

 

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Wow just happened to be at the viaduct. The photos don’t do it justice. Very cool !!

44EDFCB7-189B-4014-9A50-44B676C5A11A.jpeg

FD63A2CE-753E-44EB-B7BF-21FB0CCA01C1.jpeg

491EFDC9-6C02-4502-A04B-8FA2AEECC350.jpeg

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ohh no

we are japanese now ... a toyota towed it out

 

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Te Kahu. The cloak.

Interesting no?

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Chines, chines and more chines. Closest to LR's shape, by the look. Can't wait to see this little rocket ship lit up.

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Chines, chines and more chines. Closest to LR's shape, by the look. Can't wait to see this little rocket ship lit up.

Yeah in the flesh it looks like it is part yacht part origami. Very angular

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35 minutes ago, RobG said:

any monohull yacht exceeding 12m LOA

It's a "half" sized "surrogate" as allowed under the rule. Happy now?

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If you made a full sized surrogate you just made your boat 2!

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Mini Frack is a joke (kinda reflects Ben's management style). The Mule is pretty cool. Mini Moon is also cool, but a bit small. Te Kahu is definitely the bees knees of the surrogates.

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John Spencer would be very proud, how to build the cheapest hull, to carry what looks like full size foils with no restriction on modes, not an AC yacht.

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just a few questions

 

how many crew ..

is it mostly generator and  battery powered

who gets it when they have finished with it

 

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4 minutes ago, justsomeone said:

John Spencer would be very proud, how to built the cheapest hull, to carry what looks like full size foils with no restriction on modes, not an AC yacht.

Should be a ripper Wednesday night boat...

 

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ohh yeehh

 

stay away from the black one

 

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Lack of Rocker is interesting. But as the cross sections are so V'ed then nothing really to it. But cross sections do suggest that scow flatties are not in favour for hull release or touchdowns.

The persistence with Bulbless foils is telling. Though the planform of the horizontals looks more Delta on the Flat side when compared to Big Bruvva'.

Get to work @weta27 need your best work and cleanest lens please!

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With only the LOA restricted, this could potentially be faster than the full size 75's, although that is not really the object of the exercise.

The list of things to test will be endless, but since they are only allowed 3 pair of foils on the big boats I guess that's were the emphasis will be.

 

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The foils and foil arms do look to be close to, if not full sized. If they are full sized I wonder if she carries ballast to bring her up to the weight of an AC75? Have the Kiwis sneakily stolen a march on the others in being able to test as many full sized foil designs as they like on this boat, which don't count towards the restrictions placed on the AC75?

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14 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Hmmm, someone else I know makes this same error.

Fixed. Sorry no mislead intended. John designed for easy building in plywood, no compound curves.

 

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They're not going to give away their hull shape secrets/thoughts on a surrogate. Te Kahu looks to be a foil test bed - and a clever one.

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The best shot of the foils (so far) is the cover photo from the Video above.

They seem to be persisting with the continuous upper surface hingeless design of full size but have dropped the upward winglets of the full size. But cramming the ballast into a bulbless design will now be verified in anger against say Bulbed variants. Agree with @Horn Rock that the foils look much larger than required - will need to see how this plays out.

Think we will see a whole quiver of foils being tested - these first ones would be to verify the simulator preditions and change in scale that the team will need to adapt to.

Being so much smaller and less inertia as a total package, will yield a very different behaving beast as Ineos would testify to.

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

The foils and foil arms do look to be close to, if not full sized. If they are full sized I wonder if she carries ballast to bring her up to the weight of an AC75? Have the Kiwis sneakily stolen a march on the others in being able to test as many full sized foil designs as they like on this boat, which don't count towards the restrictions placed on the AC75?

Very similar philosophy to Te Kahu's distant relative being the AC45t - who in reincarnated form is the media boat.

A few loopholes in the protocol were just opened up today.

Well played.

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Having drawn up the new foil arms, ETNZ probably made these arms themselves - not Persico. They make the canting device, so all the ingredients are there to achieve a surrogate with full sized foils. 

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The launch photos are very interesting.

They've basically designed the hull at a 75ft scale then rounded it off early. It's got a flat under-nose section *strokes beard thoughtfully*

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is the bow section a ski style ?

bit more drive in the bow getting up and a break to going further down in a splash

 

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I think they planned this from the get go. Watched as the other teams released their surrogates with scaled foils..... Obviously had to wait while the cant system was made and the arm design was perfected. Has dove tailed nicely with Te Aihe's time out to ship to Italy. Cunning buggers.

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8 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Having drawn up the new foil arms, ETNZ probably made these arms themselves - not Persico. They make the canting device, so all the ingredients are there to achieve a surrogate with full sized foils. 

Possibly might just be using their second pair, which they would have to cover accident and equip the second boat.
Kiwi's have a history of being cheap.

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Having drawn up the new foil arms, ETNZ probably made these arms themselves - not Persico. They make the canting device, so all the ingredients are there to achieve a surrogate with full sized foils. 

Yeah I wonder if they can and have used the stock FCS from the AC75... one downside of pre-AC75 mules was having to develop custom systems, whereas waiting until now lets you save time by leveraging existing AC75 tech as well to carry out r&d with real AC75 gear and geometry.

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1 minute ago, justsomeone said:

Possibly might just be using their second pair,

Have these been delivered from Persico?

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53 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

It's a "half" sized "surrogate" as allowed under the rule. Happy now?

Given that the term has a specific meaning defined in the protocol, it's not helpful to apply the term to something that doesn't fit the definition.

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was there a set made for starts and runs going spare ?

 

 

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