Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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10 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Wrong, Artemis broke when they engaged a bow in the water and then sadly killed Andrew Simpson, the other pitchpoled with the ww bow.

The Aftermath...

3fb79e97ee44999651aeacb1ab04e7b81a-10-am

oracle-racing-AC72-capsize-11.jpg

yysw246149.jpg

sg108453.jpg

yandy253477.jpg

AC75, at worst...

DSC_1734.JPG.1c77e1c20e048ea15c8dd64e84b

You tell me which is more fragile or dangerous.

 

 

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There was a lot of broken bit on the ETNZ cat in Bermuda

Busted Cat

Top of wing in many pieces, and the front fairings are pretty much gone, 100 pieces - maybe, certainly a lot.

And by all reports would not have been competitive the next day, ETNZ got lucky that the following day was blown out, giving them an extra day to fix it.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The Aftermath...

3fb79e97ee44999651aeacb1ab04e7b81a-10-am

oracle-racing-AC72-capsize-11.jpg

yysw246149.jpg

sg108453.jpg

yandy253477.jpg

AC75, at worst...

DSC_1734.JPG.1c77e1c20e048ea15c8dd64e84b

You tell me which is more fragile or dangerous.

 

 

They didn’t tip they engaged the bow in the water ! 

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Hahaha that must be the greatest (or stupidest) definition of a multihull capsize I've ever heard from @Tornado-Cat! lol Cats don't capsize, they engage the bow in the water! lol

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Hahaha that must be the greatest (or stupidest) definition of a multihull capsize I've ever heard from @Tornado-Cat! lol Cats don't capsize, they engage the bow in the water! lol

Common theme with multihull sailors credit where credits due.  The cats were great but these things are awesome too

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11 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The Aftermath...

3fb79e97ee44999651aeacb1ab04e7b81a-10-am

oracle-racing-AC72-capsize-11.jpg

yysw246149.jpg

sg108453.jpg

yandy253477.jpg

AC75, at worst...

DSC_1734.JPG.1c77e1c20e048ea15c8dd64e84b

You tell me which is more fragile or dangerous.

 

 

Full engagement ffs.. Rotflmho

As I previously mentioned, best way to engage trash can is

 

605-09.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

There is history in the Cup. Who could forget:

 

download.jpg

No New Zealander...

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2 minutes ago, Nutta said:

No New Zealander...

Yes there was... Alan Smith from Kerikeri was the last to jump off the bow 

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9 minutes ago, Bushman said:

Yes there was... Alan Smith from Kerikeri was the last to jump off the bow 

 

download2.jpg

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21 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

There is history in the Cup. Who could forget:

 

download.jpg

I've watched that clip many times over the years.

It was amazing how it looked like a toy flag or piece of cloth rapidly getting sucked into the vacuum cleaner.

I loved how the Ozzie boys turned up to the following race with life jackets on. Showed a lot of character to take such a devastating event with such humour.

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20 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I've watched that clip many times over the years.

It was amazing how it looked like a toy flag or piece of cloth rapidly getting sucked into the vacuum cleaner.

I loved how the Ozzie boys turned up to the following race with life jackets on. Showed a lot of character to take such a devastating event with such humour.

Billy Bunters favourite AC memory 4.40.

 

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8 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Billy Bunters favourite AC memory 4.40.

 

Yeah, I know I'm not the first one here to call him a cock sucker for that.

Showing his true class through and through.

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Ouch.

Whole lot of hurt all around.

Worst of all: being a UK AC Challenger supporter :ph34r: Oof

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5 minutes ago, Wandering Geo said:

Man that was painful to watch.

Just so you Kiwis can share (the pain that is) :-)

 

AC broken mast.jpg

AC blue bucket.jpg

Yep.

Painful as fuck.

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15 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

The rudder extends down ~1.8m from the WMP.   But at -2° hull AoA (pitch), that is drastically reduced to about 0.5m! Nice low drag, enough rudder force... until that gets reduced even a bit further. Then they can lose rudder control &/or lift from the stabilator. Doesn't take much,

Yep, the helicopter shot clearly shows the ventilation start & progression

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29 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

That’s racing.

No, that's design failure. We lost too much IP and talent to the swiss cunt and went out on a stupid limb.

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9 minutes ago, hoom said:

Yep, the helicopter shot clearly shows the ventilation start & progression

I don't think a deeper rudder would have saved them. The problem is that once you lose speed, that tiny rudder wing cannot generate enough down-force even if it's deep in the water. To make things worse, the apparent wind also moves back at the same time and it just lifts the transom out of the water without any counteracting force (besides weight).

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1 hour ago, Wandering Geo said:

Man that was painful to watch.

Just so you Kiwis can share (the pain that is) :-)

 

AC broken mast.jpg

AC blue bucket.jpg

Fair is fair. Bastard. 8)

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Yes but that vid also shows how goddamn tiny the T is.

OkjcwCF.png

Certainly they were in big trouble with the loss of speed but a less tiny T might have allowed them to hold on.

 

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^Interesting shot that. Best example I've seen of how Te Rehutai carries her max. beam a loooong way aft, before she's pinched in slightly.

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1 hour ago, Wandering Geo said:

Man that was painful to watch.

Just so you Kiwis can share (the pain that is) :-)

 

AC broken mast.jpg

AC blue bucket.jpg

Argh! My eyes, they burn!

Yeah, that was an all time low point for NZ in the cup all courtesy of Wussell, Billy, et al.

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14 minutes ago, hoom said:

Yes but that vid also shows how goddamn tiny the T is.

OkjcwCF.png

Certainly they were in big trouble with the loss of speed but a less tiny T might have allowed them to hold on.

 

That's the trade-off you make between safe and fast.

Sure you can have massive stabs,  but you'll need a calendar to time yourself around the course.

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9 hours ago, Indio said:

Does our friend Magnus ever sleep??

Owning it

One of the marks of the very greatest sports teams is their ability to own mistakes. And Team New Zealand have just shown why they are such a class outfit. Huge credit to them on the water and immediately dockside for publishing this video below. There is nothing better than straight to camera, “yeah we stacked it, we own it. We move on.” And then they give Team Ineos full credit for starting so well and competing so hard and acknowledging them as one of the teams to beat now in this America’s Cup. Class all round. That’s the Kiwi spirit so perfectly on display.

You see this with the Mercedes Formula 1 Team – they make rare mistakes on tyre selection or tactics over a race weekend and immediately they are straight to camera, fessing up, explaining it clearly and intelligently and you just go “wow”. I have the same feeling after watching the Team New Zealand video. As a viewer you are drawn towards them and you see it from their perspective. They get on top of the narrative and tell you the facts and their thinking straight. 

I really admire this and I’ve said as much from the outset that the teams in the America’s Cup should be far more on the front-foot with their communications. Don’t get sucked under and into the cesspool of back-scratching politics by the woeful America’s Cup media management with their ridiculous stance on accreditation to favoured wonks – just go direct to the public with content. Tell them the story. It’s the public that matter.

You see the press conferences at this AC and literally face-plant. They are poorly managed, lifeless, un-coordinated dire affairs and should be ditched. Replace them with an insistence on multi-media issuance. The teams would love it – who actually likes seeing the muppet show of four knackered blokes who really don’t want to be there and are only doing it due to the event’s protocol? After this Cup is over, Team New Zealand need to instigate the mother of all clear-outs in that media centre. The media has changed. Forever.

glenn_ashby_01-1024x1024-1.jpg?w=820 Copyright: Richard Hodder / Emirates Team New Zealand

Far better to do what ETNZ have done here – look just how much more engaged Pete Burling comes across. Gone is the “what the hell are you asking me that for” look. He’s on it. Straight to camera. And Glenn Ashby is just brilliant – far and away different to when the lights are on in a stuffy media centre facing a bunch of clueless journos who, in the main, don’t know their starboard gybe from a lamb chop.

All credit to Team New Zealand – come rain or shine they are one classy outfit. And it starts from the very top. You cast a stone at Grant Dalton and he’s straight on to you – remember when Ben called out the Foil Cant System – and win or lose, they are honest, straight up, no nonsense and just get the job done.

You can see why they are so damn hard to beat.

twitter-header-image.png?w=750

God damn Kiwis love huffing their own farts don't they? Is this just like they owned up to the last capsize they had with boat 1?

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Gotta admit though, when she wasn't filling up with water, breaking masts, booms and headfoil tacks, she was actually a sexy looking boat. 

DSC_1832.jpg

 

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Good to see ETNZ back out there and performing well.  Also great to see the Brits making a good comeback.  It looks like it will be close....

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21 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Gotta admit though, when she wasn't filling up with water, breaking masts, booms and headfoil tacks, she was actually a sexy looking boat. 

DSC_1832.jpg

 

Well, that's alright then? 

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41 minutes ago, crashtack said:

God damn Kiwis love huffing their own farts don't they? Is this just like they owned up to the last capsize they had with boat 1?

You do realise that the article was not written by a kiwi, but by a Brit :rolleyes:

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50 minutes ago, crashtack said:

God damn Kiwis love huffing their own farts don't they? Is this just like they owned up to the last capsize they had with boat 1?

They can keep flipping over and winning as much as they want :lol:

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55 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Gotta admit though, when she wasn't filling up with water, breaking masts, booms and headfoil tacks, she was actually a sexy looking boat. 

DSC_1832.jpg

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Clarkey she was a dog.

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26 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

@ufluxnah we disowned him 

Well just cos you disowned him doesn't mean we have to take him.

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Just now, jaysper said:

Well just cos you disowned him doesn't mean we have to take him.

Surely all the shit we don’t want just ends up in Australia? 

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3 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Like good yachties ? 

Aussies have made a habit of showing up other countries at there own game . 

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3 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Aussies have made a habit of showing up other countries at there own game . 

No scuffing out the batting marks though please

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12 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Aussies have made a habit of showing up other countries at there own game . 

Showing up England? Seeing that just about every sport on the planet was invented by them including this race?

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1 minute ago, dullers said:

Showing up England? Seeing that just about every sport on the planet was invented by them including this race?

Convicts managed to win the cup and the poms still can’t 

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Some of us were trying to work out if Team Brexit or Team Middle East would cross first. Is that Brexit dead ahead in these freeze frames? (By direction not by position in race) I thought Brexit was to port of Middle East so is it AM?

Screenshot (1782).png

Screenshot (1780).png

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2 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Convicts managed to win the cup and the poms still can’t 

Closest a Pom has got was standing behind jimmy on the oracle Ac  72 

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28 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Surely all the shit we don’t want just ends up in Australia? 

Same here, how do you think we got rid of Russell Crowe.

Although I have heard rumours that Oz dump a lot of their shit on you lot now.

Rolf Harris anyone? ;)

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Just now, jaysper said:

Same here, how do you think we got rid of Russell Crowe.

Although I have heard rumours that Oz dump a lot of their shit on you lot now.

Rolf Harris anyone? ;)

Sending convicts back now yes 

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4 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Convicts managed to win the cup and the poms still can’t 

You said beating other countries at their own game. You made a general statement and now want to pretend you were being specific. You could argue that for NZ as well. Hard for us English to beat anyone at their own game as the Brits invented most sports.

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9 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Convicts managed to win the cup and the poms still can’t 

Its why we have to keep inventing sports, we keep being beaten, so stiff upper lip in hand we invent a new one to try again :lol::lol::lol:

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Just now, dullers said:

You said beating other countries at their own game. You made a general statement and now want to pretend you were being specific. You could argue that for NZ as well. Hard for us English to beat anyone at their own game as the Brits invented most sports.

For sure kiwis have too . 
sailing , cycling ,cricket ,swimming ,rugby a few 

 

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I think the poms are ahead in sailing, cycling, cricket, swimming and rugby if you go by the last world cup

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8 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Whatever happened to pitch polling... lol...

The polls were rigged, don't you know? 

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52 minutes ago, dullers said:

Some of us were trying to work out if Team Brexit or Team Middle East would cross first. Is that Brexit dead ahead in these freeze frames? (By direction not by position in race) I thought Brexit was to port of Middle East so is it AM?

Screenshot (1782).png

Screenshot (1780).png

Looks to be heading to the left of screen, Ineos should be heading to the right 

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24 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Looks to be heading to the left of screen, Ineos should be heading to the right 

In one of the videos, INEOS is floating around near to TR (capsized), so I can only assume they came back to assist.

But these grabs appear to be as TR is tipping, so it probably is AM. Not 100% on that though...

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57 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

In one of the videos, INEOS is floating around near to TR (capsized), so I can only assume they came back to assist.

But these grabs appear to be as TR is tipping, so it probably is AM. Not 100% on that though...

It can only be one of the other boats I think

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They were both coming off boundary so a large distance apart, most of the shot of the capsize were from behind looking down the track away from Ineos hence the time to appear in frame. 
 

shot from side on they would have been in frame the entire time 

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9 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Irrelevant. You said Cats would not capsize in that. You were wrong, they have they did, and they will continue to.

 

err, I said "2) We don't know if a cat would have capsized in that conditions".

As for you trying to prove you point by comparing the AC75 with the old B1 AC72s is telling. :)

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, dullers said:

Some of us were trying to work out if Team Brexit or Team Middle East would cross first. Is that Brexit dead ahead in these freeze frames? (By direction not by position in race) I thought Brexit was to port of Middle East so is it AM?

Screenshot (1782).png

Screenshot (1780).png

You can see the white sails.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

You can see the white sails.

So AM.

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10 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

No Australians on One Australia 

The original point was that no Australian would forget it.

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15 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Well, funny indeed.

1) Pete did not say that at the last AC and it did not happen otherwise they would have lost the cup

2) We don't know if a cat would have capsized in that conditions. Wind condition were very reasonable, RG speaks of 18 to 23 kts, looking at the water I would say 18-19 TWS.

3) Very reasonable speed too, they capsized downwind at an speed estimated by RG of 35 kts downwind, well, when TNZ capsized in Bermudas the Brits were at up to 40 kts in the gust.

But best is that TNZ, after telling that they had to chose a mono because of the "terrible sea conditions of Hauraki Gulf", capsized 3 times on a very flat and nice sea, speaks volume about the bullshit at the time, not to speak of the "11 teams".

And now, for you Forourselves, do you think Te Xerox lost against the original ? :)

 

Sigh.

1) Here's a reminder. I'd say there were more than "100 bits".

2) There was 21knots when ETNZ capsized in 2017, and flat water, so I think it's safe to say that a cat would have capsized in those conditions.  I'll take RG's estimate of wind, from the location, over your guesstimate, looking at Youtube clips any day.

3) ETNZ were doing 30knts when they capsized (15knts five seconds beforehand), so what's your point?

4) What Grant Dalton said was that a monohull would be better suited to survive the conditions in the Hauraki Gulf.  He was right.

 

Screenshot 2021-01-13 061142.jpg

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

err, I said "2) We don't know if a cat would have capsized in that conditions".

As for you trying to prove you point by comparing the AC75 with the old B1 AC72s is telling. :)

 

 

 

And I told you they would, they have, and they will continue to. That’s the reason I gave you a variety of photo’s. Because it doesn’t matter what year it is, Cats are, were and always will be more fragile than monohulls.

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12 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Its why we have to keep inventing sports, we keep being beaten, so stiff upper lip in hand we invent a new one to try again :lol::lol::lol:

100% agree. Problem was never that we got crap or that others got good. Only problem was we stopped inventing sports. Underwater bicycle polo anyone?.....

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28 minutes ago, Chris UK said:

100% agree. Problem was never that we got crap or that others got good. Only problem was we stopped inventing sports. Underwater bicycle polo anyone?.....

Usually When a Pom is good at a sport they knight them so people don’t forget they actually participated 

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13 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

No scuffing out the batting marks though please

Bit like scrambling the course boundary line telemetry. Good if you can get away with it.

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6 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

 

1) Here's a reminder. I'd say there were more than "100 bits".

2) There was 21knots when ETNZ capsized in 2017, and flat water, so I think it's safe to say that a cat would have capsized in those conditions.  I'll take RG's estimate of wind, from the location, over your guesstimate, looking at Youtube clips any day.

3) ETNZ were doing 30knts when they capsized (15knts five seconds beforehand), so what's your point?

4) What Grant Dalton said was that a monohull would be better suited to survive the conditions in the Hauraki Gulf.  He was right.

 

1) TNZ cat did not disintegrate in 100 bits. You are playing with words but even if you want to count the bolts the boat was able to sail later.

2) My guesstimate of 19 kts was within RG guestimate, but whatever, it could be 21 kts

3) Grant said they could not chose a 50 ft cat because it was too dangerous. Fact is that all AC75 races we saw up to now have been sailed under what AC50 and F50s have been sailing in. Not to speak of Portsmouth. So up to now he was wrong, let's wait and see for the rest.

4) The Brits were above 40 kts when TNZ capsized, which means above the 35 kts reported by RG in what you believe were the same wind conditions. The AC75s are supposed to be be faster upwind and in strong conditions, again, let's wait and see.

Capture.PNG

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2 hours ago, bajankiwi said:

In that side-on photo of GA, his shirt says "Challenger". Aren't they the defenders?

Photo is from Bermuda; TNZ helmets are opposite color scheme this time (pink at back, black and front) with a fern rather than the pink star design.

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2 hours ago, bajankiwi said:

In that side-on photo of GA, his shirt says "Challenger". Aren't they the defenders?

that just shows they're being efficient with their spending.  Left over clothing from the last cup.  I don't know about you but most of my T'shirts are more than 4 years old anyway.

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15 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

1) TNZ cat did not disintegrate in 100 bits. You are playing with words but even if you want to count the bolts the boat was able to sail later.

2) My guesstimate of 19 kts was within RG guestimate, but whatever, it could be 21 kts

3) Grant said they could not chose a 50 ft cat because it was too dangerous. Fact is that all AC75 races we saw up to now have been sailed under what AC50 and F50s have been sailing in. Not to speak of Portsmouth. So up to now he was wrong, let's wait and see for the rest.

4) The Brits were above 40 kts when TNZ capsized, which means above the 35 kts reported by RG in what you believe were the same wind conditions. The AC75s are supposed to be be faster upwind and in strong conditions, again, let's wait and see.

Capture.PNG

Here he goes again.    Just engaged the bow right ? 

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When looking at the ACWS stern cameras to get an idea of the helmet colors I came across this gem (go to 31:47 if the vid doesn't start there)

Someone (Glenn?) 'Ahhh!'

Pete; "You all good?"

Glenn(?) "Smashed my funny bone you bastard"

Pete; "(slight laugh) you all good?"

 

  (

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3 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Here he goes again.    Just engaged the bow right ? 

Show us the resulting damage of that.  
the 75 raced the next day 

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1 minute ago, Zeusproject said:

Don’t bother.   Heard all the dribble before 

Responding to yourself...forgot to change accounts between sockpuppets there? 

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14 hours ago, dullers said:

You said beating other countries at their own game. You made a general statement and now want to pretend you were being specific. You could argue that for NZ as well. Hard for us English to beat anyone at their own game as the Brits invented most sports.

Jesus. Next you'll say you invented soccer.

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7 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Jesus. Next you'll say you invented soccer.

I think kicking thigs around goes back a long time before the UK. I think we may have civilised it and reduced the deaths per game. Still been a few though if you take the odd stadium disaster.

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Just looked at the Viaduct webcam.  ETNZ have hauled out their support boats.   TR will be spending the next few days in the shed methinks?1933001779_ETNZBaseshot130121.png.thumb.jpg.45a2cc24038d37f4787dc8cc82e7d659.jpg

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2 hours ago, Chris UK said:

100% agree. Problem was never that we got crap or that others got good. Only problem was we stopped inventing sports. Underwater bicycle polo anyone?.....

Let's be honest, you've invented some rippers:

Test Cricket - The only game that goes for 5 days without a guarantee of a result and stop play for a cup of tea.

Rowing - The only sport where you only look where you've been.

Golf - Invented in Scotland but thanks to the compulsory acquisition/invasion of said country a few hundred years ago, it can go under the banner of 'UK'.

Lawn Bowls - What you play after you can no longer get around a golf course.

Curling - Refer to golf above.

Soccer/football - Invented by others, bastardised by the English, but have yet to win as many World Cups as they have World Wars.

Let's not forget how many of the sports the UK has invented that their citizens aren't actually that good at? Rugby being an example

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

 

Capture.PNG

I note that ETNZ are doing 12.2knts in this image. 

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9 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I note that ETNZ are doing 12.2knts in this image. 

The arse end where the GPS antenna is might still be at that point :-)

Doesn't say in what direction.

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Shame we don't have Russels LiveLine graphics to help us understand whats happening :lol:

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