Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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Crikey.  Who would have thought...?

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Now this is what the America’s Cup is all about. ETNZ has had spies in their ranks. Just when business was starting to pick up on the water, the off the water shenanigans are starting! Impeccable timing! 

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2 hours ago, Lickindip said:

we have been through this ... if the hull creates lift you are effectively reducing your righting moment which means less power in your sails.

And such lift wouldn't be free, it creates drag.

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30 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I wonder who the contractor was?

Whoever it is should be castrated.

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Sh&t will hit the fan when they find out which challenger he has been working for!! 

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4 minutes ago, uflux said:

Sh&t will hit the fan when they find out which challenger he has been working for!! 

I sounds more like someone in administration/accounting, leaking information and making "impropriety" allegations over some expenditures {eg allegations about payment to ship Dalt's race car to Aussie).

"This includes claims around structural and financial matters. We are working with America’s Cup Events (ACE) Ltd, and Emirates Team New Zealand in relation to the claims made," said Iain Cossar, General Manager Tourism.

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

I sounds more like someone in administration/accounting, leaking information and making "impropriety" allegations over some expenditures {eg allegations about payment to ship Dalt's race car to Aussie).

"This includes claims around structural and financial matters. We are working with America’s Cup Events (ACE) Ltd, and Emirates Team New Zealand in relation to the claims made," said Iain Cossar, General Manager Tourism.

If the information was "Incorrect" as TNZ say then the informant or informants should be auditioned for "Dumb and Dumber". So they acted as Spies and got their information wrong. Yeah that should get them the gig. FFS

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10 minutes ago, uflux said:

Sh&t will hit the fan when they find out which challenger he has been working for!! 

They said information came back from Europe, which would suggest Ineos or LR. I'm going with LR.....

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Fuck, I come home from work, fire up the commodore 64, crank up the dial up modem, up pops this story, so I rush over here for all the in depth gossip, and nothing.

Shit, now I'm going to have to wait 15 mins for each porn photo to load instead. 

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I admit it, it was me.

Its one thing pushing some insinuations about whats going on in the shed but damned if I'll keep quiet about Iocane powder, that shit is dangerous (if you haven't built up an immunity :P)

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10 minutes ago, hoom said:

I admit it, it was me.

Its one thing pushing some insinuations about whats going on in the shed but damned if I'll keep quiet about Iocane powder, that shit is dangerous (if you haven't built up an immunity :P)

Don't tel them about the ether binges.  That shit's nasty.

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

It sounds more like someone in administration/accounting, leaking information and making "impropriety" allegations over some expenditures {eg allegations about payment to ship Dalt's race car to Aussie).

"This includes claims around structural and financial matters. We are working with America’s Cup Events (ACE) Ltd, and Emirates Team New Zealand in relation to the claims made," said Iain Cossar, General Manager Tourism.

I believe you are correct. The contractor "spy"  appears to have been working for America's Cup Events and thus had access to the ETNZ base. Not 100 per cent sure of the timeline but it appears to be a scoop from the Stuff media group. The reporter who apparently broke the story was Todd Niall, an old and reliable America's Cup hand, now with Stuff. He formerly worked for Radio New Zealand. 

I was surprised at the rather forthright ETNZ statement. Guessing that Niall went to them for confirmation and more information, and that forced the team's hand.

Richard Gladwell who is normally on top of this stuff, had nothing to add at this writing.

But the best bit of all was the NZ Herald which has been doing a crappy job of reporting on this Cup cycle and has no regular America's Cup correspondent. The Herald was caught flatfooted and "borrowed" big chunks of its coverage directly from its competitor Stuff, even including attribution.  That's a new low for NZ's "Award Winning" daily newspaper.

 

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2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

They said information came back from Europe, which would suggest Ineos or LR. I'm going with LR.....

Europe sounds like the top probability.

Tough to see it as LR. Bertelli is old school and believes in honour and Max Sirena is mates with Dalt's. Of course it could be some other individual in the team,

I'd start looking under rocks in Portsmouth. Ben has a killer no-holds-barred demeanour as does the Ineos group,

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So, apart form Dalt's race car for which we don't give a shit, what other "important" information leaked and are supposed to be "wrong", which lead to a scan of the base and safety tests ?

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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

times must be tough if kiwis are ratting out the home team though.. 

What makes you think the leaker was a Kiwi? 

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24 minutes ago, Indio said:

What makes you think the leaker was a Kiwi? 

Based on as many facts as ineos being underfunded and Ben fucking the nanny... 

it’s a joke remember. 
 

on a serious note though, whoever it is/was it’s a shit thing to do irrespective of nationality and they deserve everything they get.

 

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

Based on as many facts as ineos being underfunded and Ben fucking the nanny... 

it’s a joke remember. 
 

on a serious note though, whoever it is/was it’s a shit thing to do irrespective of nationality and they deserve everything they get.

 

Agree with you there. Whistleblowing is one thing IF the informant(s) really believed there were improprieties in the organisation structures and finances. But if they divulged ETNZ proprietory design and technical information in exchange for silver pieces to a Challenger, then they should be castrated. 

I suspect we might hear more about this, especially if the informants signed NDAs when they were engaged. There might be legal consequences to come yet.. 

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4 hours ago, uflux said:

Sh&t will hit the fan when they find out which challenger he has been working for!! 

It may not involve another syndicate at all. ACE Ltd was set up as a full subsidiary of ETNZ in full agreement with the CoR. It sounds like the informant(s) were feeding "incorrect" information on the organizational structures in the ETNZ-ACE relationship and financial reporting (I'm just guessing here from the press release) to the CoR, which makes the "source in Europe" LR. 

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This about sums it up, so far. Perhaps after MBIE has looked into the allegations they will provide more detail - or not. From

https://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/breaking-americas-cup-chaos-amidst-spying-and-allegations-of-misconduct-for-emirates-team-new-zealand

whether the information leaks are from a malicious spy looking to defame ETNZ or a whistleblower uncovering misconduct in the Defender of the Record's campaign is yet to be seen.

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Very worried he will be. 
It will take a few weeks to come out properly 

People know already about how different their second boat is . 
 

people know they want to delay event once the teams have put their boats on cargo ships to nz.

loose lips .......

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50 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

whether the information leaks are from a malicious spy looking to defame ETNZ or a whistleblower uncovering misconduct in the Defender of the Record's campaign is yet to be seen.

If a team had a spy they would try to find technical info to help their team, not to defame.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I wonder who the contractor was?

The Janitor.... it’s always the Janitor lol

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If I was running a campaign and found out that information was being shared with my opposition, I'd say it was incorrect too.

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56 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If a team had a spy they would try to find technical info to help their team, not to defame.

 

 

All we can do is speculate but from the given ‘let’s get ahead of the curve’ statement by ETNZ it sounds like it’s  financial/accounting more than any design-secrets related thing. Maybe Prada, since they are underwriting much of the event, had an auditor/accountant in there and grew suspicious about how the books were being run? Who knows... 

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Speculating again: Did the ‘6 months ago’ mentioned in the ETNZ release coincide timeline-wise with the Prada exec departures? Too lazy too look myself. 

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14 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

All we can do is speculate but from the given ‘let’s get ahead of the curve’ statement by ETNZ it sounds like it’s  financial/accounting more than any design-secrets related thing. Maybe Prada, since they are underwriting much of the event, had an auditor/accountant in there and grew suspicious about how the books were being run? Who knows... 

GD is on RNZ as I write this. Kiwis. Doesn't have any belief any challenger is involved.

Once people confronted they have claimed whistleblowing as defence - hence the language surrounding news.

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28 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

All we can do is speculate but from the given ‘let’s get ahead of the curve’ statement by ETNZ it sounds like it’s  financial/accounting more than any design-secrets related thing. Maybe Prada, since they are underwriting much of the event, had an auditor/accountant in there and grew suspicious about how the books were being run? Who knows... 

My guess is that all local contractors are kiwis.

Dalts sport car tansport sound like whistle blowing even though it's a clear distraction of what real accusations are.

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He's doing the rounds this morning, this from Newstalk ZB

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12344067

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

"We placed one of them effectively inside the main organisation literally just outside my office in with some guys - obviously all our guys we trust, but [who] knew what the game was.

"Then once when I was informed effectively out of Europe, the game was up at that stage."

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American Magic bet Team New Zealand into the water today! Defiant was lifted out of the ship and put straight into the water!

Videos:

 

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Welcome to Auckland, AM and NYYC. It's been far too long... 

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Next door. Testing the foil arms. No sign of sails. 

They have to go through the normal work up procedures......

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Just about to go and check, last saw them in the Channel, but it was so friggin' cold on the waterfront that I decided to have a coffee at home while they set themselves up.

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First down wind run foil to foil jibe. Steady as a rock 

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7 minutes ago, uflux said:

First down wind run foil to foil jibe. Steady as a rock 

Herbie

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4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

He's doing the rounds this morning, this from Newstalk ZB

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12344067

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

"We placed one of them effectively inside the main organisation literally just outside my office in with some guys - obviously all our guys we trust, but [who] knew what the game was.

"Then once when I was informed effectively out of Europe, the game was up at that stage."

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

From the same  interview:  'Dalton revealed members of the team became suspicious about December last year when actions did not feel what he described "dynamically right".'

The bit that no one has touched on is Dalt's statement that the spying involved structural and financial matters. Boat engineering structure or management structure? The latter seems more likely but who knows!

 

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6 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

From the same  interview:  'Dalton revealed members of the team became suspicious about December last year when actions did not feel what he described "dynamically right".'

The bit that no one has touched on is Dalt's statement that the spying involved structural and financial matters. Boat engineering structure or management structure? The latter seems more likely but who knows!

 

I think the implications are to do with funding and structural aspects there - GD gave the example of a lawyer working for both ACE and ETNZ and how their salaries are split vs their time working on each part...

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Big eyeroll...

Quote

"But again, you just can't foresee this sort of thing."

 

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Just about to go and check, last saw them in the Channel, but it was so friggin' cold on the waterfront that I decided to have a coffee at home while they set themselves up.

Goin soft, Bud? Ha, ha.

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49 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

From the same  interview:  'Dalton revealed members of the team became suspicious about December last year when actions did not feel what he described "dynamically right".'

The bit that no one has touched on is Dalt's statement that the spying involved structural and financial matters. Boat engineering structure or management structure? The latter seems more likely but who knows!

 

Legal entity structural separation between ACE Ltd and ETNZ. My guess would be a beancounter who feels more important than his/her role entails, and probably became disgruntled when not kept on fulltime during the Lockdown versus the more important designers and engineers who would have kept going throughout Levels 4, 3 and 2.

This is not the "spying" usually associated with AC teams trying to get info from the opposition because it is strictly prohibited in the Protocol. The local media made up the "Spying" headline as click-bait for what is essentially an internal determination of a contractor's failure to abide by their NDA and tittle-tattling to MBIE.

Nothing to see here...

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39 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Big eyeroll...

 

People roll their eyes every time you open your mouth...

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28 minutes ago, Indio said:

Legal entity structural separation between ACE Ltd and ETNZ. My guess would be a beancounter who feels more important than his/her role entails, and probably became disgruntled when not kept on fulltime during the Lockdown versus the more important designers and engineers who would have kept going throughout Levels 4, 3 and 2.

This is not the "spying" usually associated with AC teams trying to get info from the opposition because it is strictly prohibited in the Protocol. The local media made up the "Spying" headline as click-bait for what is essentially an internal determination of a contractor's failure to abide by their NDA and tittle-tattling to MBIE.

Nothing to see here...

Not sure about the lockdown part but yes I think it's a corporate structure thing and not passing foil tip designs to the enemy

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2 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Welcome back to the sparkling waters, Waitemata

DSC_0515.jpg

I'm Lovin 'It -

new sponser

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Nice job, Weta27. You've still got the magic.

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16 hours ago, kenergy said:

Fuck, I come home from work, fire up the commodore 64, crank up the dial up modem, up pops this story, so I rush over here for all the in depth gossip, and nothing.

Shit, now I'm going to have to wait 15 mins for each porn photo to load instead. 

I feel your pain . In the 80’s I was a manufacturers rep for a variety of computer lines and one was Commodore :) I still have a Vic20 and Commodore 64 in storage somewhere .  

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1 hour ago, NZL3481 said:

People roll their eyes every time you open your mouth...

Only the people who haven't worked out how to activate the "ignore" function.

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She looked very smooth and stable, no splashdowns while I was watching.

After a while they headed back down towards Bean Rock, into the teeth of the Southerly and then looked as though they were heading out to the back paddock, but stopped after a few gybes and eventually pulled the sails down and towed back in, slowly.

Two spy boats, apparently LR and INEOS.

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17 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Only the people who haven't worked out how to activate the "ignore" function.

No one ignores me. Not really. I'm right too often.

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19 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Only the people who haven't worked out how to activate the "ignore" function.

How do you know if you did ?

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

How do you know if you did ?

I take it that you haven't worked out how to ignore, when you do the question is redundant.

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Bow sprit back on.

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

No torpedo bulbs on the foils.

20200630_082246.thumb.jpg.191a465fea62bece8c957a9c07cd0457.thumb.jpg.1a06ab1c8d2600cf7a1e5c5fc109d487.jpg

I think any upgrades on B1 will be under the hood. I think the foil changes will wait till B2. I still expect to see hawk out and about testing more foil variations from time to time. But if today is anything to go by. They have got am B1 running really stable

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9 minutes ago, thetruth said:

Hmm sent them an email with no reply. If it wasn't them you would have thought they would make a press statement denying any involvement.....

look at their customers .. they have some very high profile and worth business's

send the customers a cc email asking if they suspect sensitive information has gone missing

mayoandcalder will be quietly shitting themselves atm

they stand to lose the whole business.. and any prospect of being hired by anyone else ( business and employee's )

 

marketing .. whoda thunked

 

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27 minutes ago, thetruth said:

Hmm sent them an email with no reply. If it wasn't them you would have thought they would make a press statement denying any involvement.....

"We work closely with city councils, New Zealand Government, Government of Victoria, Hong Kong Government"

Victoria government not going great at the tic and I see the Chinese are about to side fuck Hong Kong.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

look at their customers .. they have some very high profile and worth business's

send the customers a cc email asking if they suspect sensitive information has gone missing

mayoandcalder will be quietly shitting themselves atm

they stand to lose the whole business.. and any prospect of being hired by anyone else ( business and employee's )

 

marketing .. whoda thunked

 

Pretty much confirmed on TV One news saying a contractor to the event arm (ACE).......press giving more clues......

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1 minute ago, Swanno said:

"We work closely with city councils, New Zealand Government, Government of Victoria, Hong Kong Government"

Victoria government not going great at the tic and I see the Chinese are about to side fuck Hong Kong.

 

 

Anyone know Calder or Mayo? Sad to see HK getting fucked. Lots of drama to come out of there.......

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This is odd, even by AC standards. 

MBIE are the folks who pay the bills right? So it likely involves money. My wild guess is that someone has been meddling with accusations of dodgy dealings with the goal of either:

  • reducing the funding available for the AC event; or
  • reducing the funding available for ETNZ.

The Europe angle doesn't really add much clarity, as the info could have come back via LR (as COR) or Emirates (yes, despite the name the sponsorship money actually comes out of Europe).

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12 minutes ago, BSPN said:

This is odd, even by AC standards. 

MBIE are the folks who pay the bills right? So it likely involves money. My wild guess is that someone has been meddling with accusations of dodgy dealings with the goal of either:

  • reducing the funding available for the AC event; or
  • reducing the funding available for ETNZ.

The Europe angle doesn't really add much clarity, as the info could have come back via LR (as COR) or Emirates (yes, despite the name the sponsorship money actually comes out of Europe).

or someone is leaking info about the state of ACE organisation, any studies done on the cost benefits of the current viability of the event (pre/post covid)

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1 hour ago, thetruth said:

Anyone know Calder or Mayo? Sad to see HK getting fucked. Lots of drama to come out of there.......

Yes, Met them last year for something non-related, also no reply just yet.

From teams to superyacht crews, they were off the charts busy before COVID, I would tread carefully to assume a non-reply means anything else other than your email is at the bottom of a deep folder.  If they are clean, this would not be helping the event so best to hold judgement. 

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5 hours ago, maxmini said:

I feel your pain . In the 80’s I was a manufacturers rep for a variety of computer lines and one was Commodore :) I still have a Vic20 and Commodore 64 in storage somewhere .  

Beep

 

 

 

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By the same token if they were any good at what they do a statement to that effect should have been immediate and clear..............

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