Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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All part of the learning cycle. The Cats did it too. Can you imagine it. Race 2 of the Americas cup and a boat capsizes then rights itself and goes on to win the race? It's possible ....

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15 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

All part of the learning cycle. The Cats did it too. Can you imagine it. Race 2 of the Americas cup and a boat capsizes then rights itself and goes on to win the race? It's possible ....

Sounds a lot like the next level after an Olympic campaign in skiffs.  

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So, all this time, did they have the simulator set on "Suck"? Heh.

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't rub it in, but after the seriously-over-the-top spewing over the past several months by you Kiwis as to your superiority in all things AC, it's just too delicious.

I'll try to give you some room. I know it hurts.

Carry on. You'll get better.

 

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2 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

So, all this time, did they have the simulator set on "Suck"? Heh.

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't rub it in, but after the seriously-over-the-top spewing over the past several months by you Kiwis as to your superiority in all things AC, it's just too delicious.

I'll try to give you some room. I know it hurts.

Carry on. You'll get better.

 

Tell this guy "You'll get better" lol He'll just say smack who?? What a dick lol

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2 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

not the first to capsize a AC defender boat in practice :P

 

What is the point?  Does that make you feel better that a totally different type of foiling boat also can capsize?  Do you have any pictures of other AC mono hulls capsizing?

 

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8 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

What is the point?  Does that make you feel better that a totally different type of foiling boat also can capsize?  Do you have any pictures of other AC mono hulls capsizing?

 

 

boatcapzise_018_wideweb__430x322,3.jpg

20626829_10156153991201002_257652510965370160_o.jpg

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13 minutes ago, samsonite said:

I stand corrected. Good catch.

But the picture I posted showed that arm down?

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The capsize just tells us what everyone has said about this boat design, it can be unstable when changing modes because the RM can't be adjusted quickly enough.

Too many people (on SAAC) were taking for granted all of the specific design adjustments and crew work that is needed to minimize the stability problems.  Burling states in the video that "its what these boats are designed to do"

https://www.facebook.com/EmiratesTeamNZ/videos/592916144802595/

Also, a wing would not have been damaged during that capsize because of the gentle roll and the fact that the base of the mast is much closer to the water than in the AC50's.  

And don't fool yourself into thinking that the boat is self righting as designed.  Remember the remarks from AM about water getting on the sails and making it impossible for the boat to right itself.

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Just now, The_Alchemist said:

Slightly different situation when the keel falls off the boat, not a design feature.

well you should have stipulated that :D

my point was they are not the first to test a new boat to their limits, they righted it (yes with help from a tender) but it doesn't actually look like they tried to put both foils in the 100% down position to do it itself so we are none the wiser IF the design can do it by itself

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The ED is all over this quote  "This has Shit show written all over it.!" .  The cats capsized too. It continued sailing after the tip so how is that a Shit show?  Not sure why the negativity is there towards this form of sailing? 

Rightg above a "A near perfect shot from the mighty 18’s". Which are not at all tippy. :rolleyes:

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48 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

So, all this time, did they have the simulator set on "Suck"? Heh.

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't rub it in, but after the seriously-over-the-top spewing over the past several months by you Kiwis as to your superiority in all things AC, it's just too delicious.

I'll try to give you some room. I know it hurts.

Carry on. You'll get better.

 

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong, as usual. It doesn't hurt at all. It's all rather re-assuring. 

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“We sized the amount of ballast so the boat would be self-righting - which was one of the design criteria, and that determined the weight of ballast,” Dan B

If you are unable to self right quickly the thing is a lemon.

The breeze was light and if it was any greater and unassisted it would have floundered around laying flat until it was head to wind pressed down by a fast filling double skin main by then the opposition @ 50 knots would be home for a cuppa.

 

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That's good to hear, sbd. As I say, carry on. I wish you Kiwis all the best and will leave you all to it...until the next one...

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3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

by then the opposition @ 50 knots would be home for a cuppa.

Massive revelation that a boat that doesn't tip over would beat a boat that does. Send your CV to ETNZ immediately - they need you.

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58 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

I'll try to give you some room. I know it hurts.

Carry on. You'll get better.

trolling again

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Maybe the fact that two of their grinders are away kicking it in the Finn Gold Cup at the moment has something to do with it?

image.png.514732caaef3df1d4add52474343bc59.png

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12 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Massive revelation that a boat that doesn't tip over would beat a boat that does. Send your CV to ETNZ immediately - they need you.

Horn get out more a flattened keeler or a capsize in a centre board class does not always result in a DNF.

Some of the greatest yacht racing moments are sourced from epic feats of seamanship and recovery resulting in wins.

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4 hours ago, barfy said:

No hanging over the tramp 15 m in the air. Maybe some sailing team input into the mono ha ha.

 

AC35_17sg_012493.jpg

And what makes you thinks that a cat would have capsized in the same conditions barfidiot ? When you are not trolling you are the idiot of the village. :D

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40 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

The capsize just tells us what everyone has said about this boat design, it can be unstable when changing modes because the RM can't be adjusted quickly enough.

Too many people (on SAAC) were taking for granted all of the specific design adjustments and crew work that is needed to minimize the stability problems.  Burling states in the video that "its what these boats are designed to do"

https://www.facebook.com/EmiratesTeamNZ/videos/592916144802595/

Also, a wing would not have been damaged during that capsize because of the gentle roll and the fact that the base of the mast is much closer to the water than in the AC50's.  

And don't fool yourself into thinking that the boat is self righting as designed.  Remember the remarks from AM about water getting on the sails and making it impossible for the boat to right itself.

It doesn't even look like they attempted to self right. 

The foil was in stable sailing position instead of down like it was designed to be during self righting.

Maybe in training they decided it was more prudent to right the boat with the chase boat and carry on sailing for the day.

The below image shows the intent of the self righting mode on the AC75:

americas-cup-concept-33.jpg

Looks nothing like the set up they used to right the boat today.

yysw275971.jpg

 

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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

And what makes you thinks that a cat would have capsized in the same conditions barfidiot ? When you are not trolling you are the idiot of the village. :D

you may want to look at #506 above ... looks like a very similar situation. and before you say it different ... no shit ... SIMILAR, say it after me ...  si·muh·luh

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Looks like mini frack first crashes, but higher...

image.png.209d8bef87385b6e5ecf4041248a0d20.png

I am wondering how Flipper got so high. We saw minifrack going high too because he had his foils pretty vertical, however the AC75 looked much more stable because their foil is more horizontal. So, question to posters, do you think the foil was in a regular position, or was it more vertical than usual which could mean that they were doing a test ?

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

It doesn't even look like they attempted to self right. 

The foil was in stable sailing position instead of down like it was designed to be during self righting.

Maybe in training they decided it was more prudent to right the boat with the chase boat and carry on sailing for the day.

The below image shows the intent of the self righting mode on the AC75:

americas-cup-concept-33.jpg

Looks nothing like the set up they used to right the boat today.

yysw275971.jpg

 

Two completely different angles.

One a dream the other a reality.

Maybe thats why Prada stuck with a keel:P

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3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Two completely different angles.

One a dream the other a reality.

They're almost the exact same angle, just capsizing in the opposite direction. The set-ups as displayed in the concept reveal is totally different to the setup today. Perhaps they didn't intend to use the self right mode?

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Don’t forget the scale of this. It wasn’t a laser or starling. Or harbour cruiser. 75 foot of boat counting the sprit. 
awesome. Limit reached. Learned something move on.

etnz have a history of not doing this until race  day. 
now it’s behind them. 
 

good omen?

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Crikey Fouryourselfs sake which example is laid flat ie dead in the water.

The animation is at least 25 degrees from the other...

"they didn't intend to use the self right mode?"

Pretty standard practice to test RM before you put your gumboots on and head down the back paddock. 
Maybe the simulator was switched to augmented reality stimulator mode.

Will TNZ conduct a RM test in public after today who knows.

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13 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

It doesn't even look like they attempted to self right. 

Capsizing and subsequent righting is not without some risk in any boat. I don't think anyone can fault them for going with the safest option at this stage.

Perhaps once they have a second boat and some idea of which is more expendable they'll be willing to experiment further.

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49 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Horn get out more a flattened keeler or a capsize in a centre board class does not always result in a DNF.

This isn't a keeler or centre board boat so your analogy is flawed. I agree with mogs - they probably went with the safest option. 

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

So, all this time, did they have the simulator set on "Suck"? Heh.

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't rub it in, but after the seriously-over-the-top spewing over the past several months by you Kiwis as to your superiority in all things AC, it's just too delicious.

I'll try to give you some room. I know it hurts.

Carry on. You'll get better.

 

Pretty much everyone I've talked to about this today were more impressed with the recovery than concerned about the tip. We are a people who push shit until we know the limits, and you dont know the limits until something goes wrong.

There was a hell of a lot more concern with the pitchpole in Bermuda,  but we all know how that turned out. 

But I know you dont actually care, you're just trolling as usual.

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18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

This isn't a keeler or centre board boat so your analogy is flawed. I agree with mogs - they probably went with the safest option. 

If it cannot pick itself up and carry on on a timely manner why bother with the design effort in the beginning.

If you flop you’re fucked no different from the cat but quite along way from the song sheet TNZ was singing from.

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20 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

If it cannot pick itself up and carry on on a timely manner why bother with the design effort in the beginning.

Yeah I think your design priorities are much different to mine or ETNZ's. What do you think this is - a splash and crash derby with boats falling over every other leg and then carrying on? To be honest I find your sentiments ludicrous.

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8 hours ago, uflux said:

Ah no the mast will have a lot of flex to allow the top of that sail to open. A stiff mast will do the opposite. Think of it as the same way that windsurf sails are set up with a curve in the mast to set the down haul. You need flex to allow the top of the sail to breath. They will have a lot of rig tension. But I don’t see any evidence that they are ‘stiffer’ than anyone else

The mast has a reported failure so stiffening would rectify that. I'm familiar with some windsurfing rigs ( I well remember when camber inducers came in making it heaven going up wind in a breeze) and yes that applies, but in this case, we are talking about a system similar to the Tornado and its semi rotating section. In the AC75 D section the windward luff will be under different compression responses than the leeward so opening up a whole heap of control issues. As a mast twists it can cause the battens to twist and open or close, additionally we are talking about small bends over 26 metres and tiny changes here make a difference, even more so at 40/50 knots. Rig tension changes mast bend and it doesn't need much for significant changes. A millimeter change in luff curve makes a difference at high level. Often it's the way a mast twists is the answer to understanding leach opening. 

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7 hours ago, barfy said:

No hanging over the tramp 15 m in the air. Maybe some sailing team input into the mono ha ha.

How do you hang 15 m in the air when capsized sideways if the boat only has an 8.47 m beam?

The capsize started with a classic cavitation drop caused by flying out of the water, just like the early foiling Moths from 15 years ago. It wouldn't have mattered whether it was the flat or anhedral foil.

Maybe hitting the water hard thew someone off balance so they couldn't adjust whatever they needed to fast enough (ease the  main? headsail? both?). Looks like the rudder is stalling and throwing up lots of water as they try to round up but can't get around fast enough so it falls over.

As for why they didn't self–right, surely if you capsize the bugger you don't waste the opportunity to have a go at getting upright on your own, unless you can't. Maybe the accumulator was drained from other manoeuvres and couldn't accumulate,  but surely they're running the standard FCS software and the setting for righting mode should just be a button/toggle for port/starboard?

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24 minutes ago, RobG said:

How do you hang 15 m in the air when capsized sideways if the boat only has an 8.47 m beam?

The capsize started with a classic cavitation drop caused by flying out of the water, just like the early foiling Moths from 15 years ago. It wouldn't have mattered whether it was the flat or anhedral foil.

Maybe hitting the water hard thew someone off balance so they couldn't adjust whatever they needed to fast enough (ease the  main? headsail? both?). Looks like the rudder is stalling and throwing up lots of water as they try to round up but can't get around fast enough so it falls over.

As for why they didn't self–right, surely if you capsize the bugger you don't waste the opportunity to have a go at getting upright on your own, unless you can't. Maybe the accumulator was drained from other manoeuvres and couldn't accumulate,  but surely they're running the standard FCS software and the setting for righting mode should just be a button/toggle for port/starboard?

Maybe. Unless the goal of the day was to test specific things. If the Self righting mode was tried, and didn't work as expected, it could cause damage to other parts of the boat or control system. Better to right the boat safely and carry on testing the things they planned to test. Self righting can always be done at the dock via crane with all safety precautions implemented instead of at sea in rough conditions.

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C'mon now. This must have been a deliberate action. It's Emirates Team New Zealand. They are nothing if not a bunch of blokes who love to have a sneeky laugh at our expense. They haven't fucked up in all the dodgy weather before.

Screenshot_20191219-202023_Chrome.jpg

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I just think, as I posted before...The AC75 Concept reveal video shows how the Self Right mode was originally intended to work. The foil on the high side of the boat is clearly supposed to come down enabling the boat to right itself. Why ETNZ didn't bring that high foil down, I'm not sure anyone will know, but that foil is clearly still in the stable foiling position and never moves, even after the capsize, which tells Me they didn't try and self right the boat. That maybe due to the conditions, or the fact that it was unsafe to do so at sea, or maybe just the fact that they thought it'd be quicker and easier to just right her and carry on testing what ever it was they were testing. But I don't think we can say the Self righting function doesn't work. Not yet anyway.

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considering they have just come out of a gybe, you would have to think the FCS was pretty close to being empty and just starting to re-pressurise.

1: Can the FCS re-pressurise when on its side?

if the answer is no we have a design fuckup ...

if this is true what we saw today makes sense

that the skyward foil could use gravity to bring itself 'under the boat' (why they didn't who knows unless that's another FCS design limitation)

the undersea foil would need a heap of pressure to go from its foiling position to 'under the boat righting position'.

if no pressure and no ability to re-pressurise in that orientation ... stalemate

 

 

 

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and just relooked at the video, the windward (skyward) foil was in its up and out of the way position when capsizing

when the boat was being righted by the tender it looks to be in the foiling position

so 1 foil has moved partially (half way?) towards the under the boat docking position

not enough hydro?

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Storm in a Tea Cup. Or Storm within Anarchy. They continued sailing.! Great topic for everyone but really it's a non event. They learned something. The Kiwis talked it down but a lot of people want to talk it up. That's why the Kiwis will continue to win the cup.  Can you imagine the Italians they would have been yelling and screaming but not the Cool Kids on the Block. Push the boundaries and knowledge is power.!  :D:ph34r:

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Jebus I got sent the capsize pic at work, freaked me out :ph34r:

Pleased that they got it back up in good enough condition to keep sailing :)

I do share concern that they don't seem to have attempted to use the 'self righting' foil position & I've been surprised nobody had done an Open60 style crane inclination test before sailing.

If they've given up on the self-righting they could have simplified the arm system significantly by limiting the foil depression angle.

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looks like they they got the lift wrong on the new foil after the gybe. Raised up and dropped down. I reckon someone took a fall and couldn't get to their controls, or possibly caught in two minds as to whether to bear away below the power zones or head up above it. Seems like after they splash the helm is trying to bear off, but the rig loads up and with the heel they have the CoE well to leeward which is screwing them up to wind back in to the power zone. By the time they blow the sheets the clews of the main and jib are already being sheeting in by the water flow, and over they go. 

Pretty cool that is was quickly righted. Looks a lot safer than the cats with the high side not being quite so high. 

Beaten to a gybe by the American Magic and beaten to a tack by INEOS, finally ETNZ are first to a do spectacular manoeuvre. 

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1 hour ago, Lickindip said:

not enough hydro?

Isn’t the foil arm operated by hydraulics powered by a battery pack not humans.

“The design is essentially an electronically controlled hydraulic system which controls the 40 tonne hydraulic cylinders which lift and lower the foil arm,” explained Peter Thomas. 

“Hydraulically we have a main valve block with a manifold at the bottom of a custom-built storage cylinder which has a piston inside of it which enables us to take the oil from the main foil arm cylinders and very quickly put it in the storage cylinder. We also have a tank cylinder which is the main source of the oil and is pressurised on one side.

“Electronically we have the Beckhoff PLC and the motor controller which takes the power from a battery and converts it into a voltage that the motor can use. The motor is connected through a coupling to the hydraulic pump.

 The motor and pump on their own are not powerful enough to give us the pressure that we need so we pre-charge the system using the accumulator which enables us to move the foil arm in the rapid movement in about 3 seconds through the 50 degree arc from 70 degree submerged foiling angle to 120 degree angle at its highest point.”

After each tack the tank is emptied to refill the accumulator. The recharge takes approximately 15 seconds after which the crew will be ready to tack the AC75’s again.

AC75 Class Rule specifically allows battery power for the adjustment of all underwater appendages (except steering), completely relieving the crew from producing the power to achieve movement, but still requiring manual input from the crew to control the angle of the foils.

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A year ago we were predicting all sorts of problems with these boats and TNZ have proven most of us were wrong, but I found my post from May last year  on the 3D animation thread which seems to predict exactly what happenned  today:

Have any of you guys ever ridden a tricycle? They are diabolocally unstable. Any roll induces pitch variations.

Issue 1: These boats with three foils will be like tricycles. Even with only two in the water they will behave the same as tricycles.  Any roll will induce pitch variations and in the case of foiling, pitch variations will mean big issues with height control. Rolling to leeward will increase AoA of all foils and the boat will leap upward, (the reverse for a roll to windward).

 

And when it leaps upward and the leeward foil breaks the surface all lift vanishes and all RM is lost.

BINGO

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23 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

but the rig loads up and with the heel they have the CoE well to leeward which is screwing them up to wind back in to the power zone.

Also lost nearly all their speed in the crash  -> righting moment.

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From the video it looks like the tow boat is pulling the boat round rather than up, prehaps just needing flow over the submerged foil to bring her back to stability? That would also be the gentlest way to right her no?

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42 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

From the video it looks like the tow boat is pulling the boat round rather than up, prehaps just needing flow over the submerged foil to bring her back to stability? That would also be the gentlest way to right her no?

Yup.nothing like bringing a cat up from her most stable position..turtle. With a line over the mid beam. Looks like they put one on, then decided they just needed to tease her upwind and give a bit of flow on the foils. Im sure  The spies were taking notes, we'll see how well they do when the time comes around.

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The ED is all over this quote  "This has Shit show written all over it.!" .  The cats capsized too. It continued sailing after the tip so how is that a Shit show?  Not sure why the negativity is there towards this form of sailing? 

Negativity towards this form of sailing as a match race platform.

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8 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Nah. Looked like the rudder stalled and then she rounded up, arse over turkey.

Most likely . But can't help thinking that if a bit more of that upper leech twisted off it may have just rounded up and stayed upright .

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5 hours ago, Priscilla said:

If it cannot pick itself up and carry on on a timely manner why bother with the design effort in the beginning.

If you flop you’re fucked no different from the cat but quite along way from the song sheet TNZ was singing from.

Pretty reasonable call .

Sort of defeats the point of all that extra ballast.

Would have thought a simple open 60 style righting test makes sure everyones on the same page .

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No surprises here...when the boat crashes after flying too high, the apparent wind comes way aft and stalls the foils...so if they can't bear away fast enough, and get speed on, the boat will be literally "blown over". They practise getting "way on" and restoring foil flow....as Clint almost said..." A boat's gotta know it's limitations" ;-)

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22 minutes ago, sailman said:

Negativity towards this form of sailing as a match race platform.

Also negative towards Sail GP so what platform does he/they have positive energy pointed at? 

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1 hour ago, Phil S said:

A year ago we were predicting all sorts of problems with these boats and TNZ have proven most of us were wrong, but I found my post from May last year  on the 3D animation thread which seems to predict exactly what happenned  today:

Have any of you guys ever ridden a tricycle? They are diabolocally unstable. Any roll induces pitch variations.

Issue 1: These boats with three foils will be like tricycles. Even with only two in the water they will behave the same as tricycles.  Any roll will induce pitch variations and in the case of foiling, pitch variations will mean big issues with height control. Rolling to leeward will increase AoA of all foils and the boat will leap upward, (the reverse for a roll to windward).

 

And when it leaps upward and the leeward foil breaks the surface all lift vanishes and all RM is lost.

BINGO

In the interests of fairness, whilst you cannot but agree that it is a Tricycle; it is appropriate to mention that it is a Tricycle in the Morgan Three Wheeler sense, rather than the Robin Reliant style..... ala Trotters Independent Trading ( Del Boy & Rodney)

I know which one is inherently more stable, but otherwise your analysis is spot on.

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What ever your point of view on this form of cup boat etc, it has achieved in spiking peoples interest and got people talking about the Americas cup!

If we had stayed with the Cats of last time I don't think there would have been as much chat and intrigue as there is now! Thats got to be a good thing!

The AC cycles are longer than other sports so you need a way to keep the interest up! The competition needs to be freshened up every few cycles and thats what this has done imo rightly or wrongly.

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2 hours ago, Phil S said:

A year ago we were predicting all sorts of problems with these boats and TNZ have proven most of us were wrong, but I found my post from May last year  on the 3D animation thread which seems to predict exactly what happenned  today:

Have any of you guys ever ridden a tricycle? They are diabolocally unstable. Any roll induces pitch variations.

Issue 1: These boats with three foils will be like tricycles. Even with only two in the water they will behave the same as tricycles.  Any roll will induce pitch variations and in the case of foiling, pitch variations will mean big issues with height control. Rolling to leeward will increase AoA of all foils and the boat will leap upward, (the reverse for a roll to windward).

 

And when it leaps upward and the leeward foil breaks the surface all lift vanishes and all RM is lost.

BINGO

You mean that when a foil breaks the surface completely it’s likely to fall over?

 

holy shit that’s insightful.. I mean I thought that boats would just merrily float along on their uplifting ground effect hull? Your suggestion throws shade at this very idea. 
 

proof that geniuses walk among us.. 

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

Yup.nothing like bringing a cat up from her most stable position..turtle. With a line over the mid beam. Looks like they put one on, then decided they just needed to tease her upwind and give a bit of flow on the foils. Im sure  The spies were taking notes, we'll see how well they do when the time comes around.

Barfidiot, you speak of what you don't know as usual, the demonstration has been made with the AC45 that you can bring back a cat simply by towing it toward the wind and use the wing to self right. The french did it first during a race and were copied by the other teams later. In fact it is faster and easier than what when pulled on the side, like with the AC75.

But keep posting you uninformed comments.

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I guess capsizing and righting the boat with help is a good test on its own.....

The self righting is something I am dubious about, but that may well be the next test now they know the boat is sail able after a capsize.

Very interesting to see and pleased to see Tony Rae is on the team!

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12 hours ago, trt131 said:

If the chase boat helps the righting, then its out of the race no matter how far ahead they are.

If you capsize, it does not matter how far ahead you are, you'll finish last. Just better than DSQ.

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5 hours ago, Phil S said:

Any roll will induce pitch variations and in the case of foiling, pitch variations will mean big issues with height control. Rolling to leeward will increase AoA of all foils and the boat will leap upward, (the reverse for a roll to windward).

Thanks for the only relevant explanation (even if stated a long time ago) I can understand so far.

I agree totally with your analyse: Rolling to leeward will increase ... not only AoA but also horizontal projected area of the foil.

If in normal position the leeward foil is  @ 45° from horizontal, when the boat heel leeward the angle goes down and the vertical lift of the foil increase accordingly ultimatly fron 70% of total foil lift to 100%, so almost an 50% increase in vertical  lift.

But at the same time the vertical lift foil from the T rudder will move from 100% (when the boat is flat ) to 70% when heeled @45°, so the stern "sinks".

As both changes in lift happen at the same time: increase lift in the front and decrease at the rudder,  the boat goes nose up even more.

Cheers

Erwan 

 

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46 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

If you capsize, it does not matter how far ahead you are, you'll finish last. Just better than DSQ.

many 49er helms would disagree with you

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58 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

If you capsize, it does not matter how far ahead you are, you'll finish last. Just better than DSQ.

Pete and Blair might disagree there, a capsizes and a mob in the worlds and still taking the gold. They're obviously just working on the recovery routine for the AC75 too ;)

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11 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey Fouryourselfs sake which example is laid flat ie dead in the water.

The animation is at least 25 degrees from the other...

"they didn't intend to use the self right mode?"

Pretty standard practice to test RM before you put your gumboots on and head down the back paddock. 
Maybe the simulator was switched to augmented reality stimulator mode.

Will TNZ conduct a RM test in public after today who knows.

pretty standard to practice the to test RM "before" you put your gumboots on ie - back at dock with a crane and safety personnel and all safety precautions enabled.

Capsize tests should be done at the dock in case anything goes wrong, just as the load tests on IMOCA60's are performed at the dock for that same reason.

 

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18 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

[struggles to hold back convulsing guffaws]

Ahm...Well, it's good to see the boys working on yet more strategic moves. She does look very stable in this configuration. Very...ahm.. fast boat that...

[struggles to hold back writhing chortles]

Here you go - right as rain...

AHMED_whinces.thumb.png.605b48bd377ea711c0c9e8f1681ada13.png

(Self-righting Brought to You By, KiWhingerSpinoMaticTM)

Nothing to see here. Now, go win that race boys!

Seems a bit bow down to me, and the crew positions are a little unconventional, but that works for me.

Good on TNZ finding the limits of their boat.  You can probably be pretty assured their boat won't break when it really means it.

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Happy Friday everyone. May you have a lovely day filled with excitement and anticipation for the holiday break ahead. Please take the time to share love and generosity with all those around you over the coming week. For those sailing, fair winds and following seas.

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Barfidiot, you speak of what you don't know as usual, the demonstration has been made with the AC45 that you can bring back a cat simply by towing it toward the wind and use the wing to self right. The french did it first during a race and were copied by the other teams later. In fact it is faster and easier than what when pulled on the side, like with the AC75.

But keep posting you uninformed comments.

Listen pepe, I said turtle. You either are naturally very thick, or have esl handicap. The latter can be alleviated with some coursework, the former is with you forever.

I reckon the consensus here is the former.

So STFU and happy hole idays.

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1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:

Happy Friday everyone. May you have a lovely day filled with excitement and anticipation for the holiday break ahead. Please take the time to share love and generosity with all those that are white around you over the coming week. For those sailing, fair winds and following seas.

 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Capsize tests should be done at the dock in case anything goes wrong, just as the load tests on IMOCA60's are performed at the dock for that same reason.

Well in all the pre Christmas excitement this item has been overlooked by TNZ because it simply has not been done until yesterday.

Sitting in it’s dock whilst being rigged Te Aihe is as tippy as fuck tilting quite heavily with just crew movement both foils in down mode.

Maybe TNZ sales and marketing department will right the wrong excuse the pun and conduct that elementary test sooner rather than later but as it has been said before if you cannot push a button or two and get upright and back racing quickly all those $millions and 50000 hours of design time has just produced a 75ft tip truck.

 

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1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:

Happy Friday everyone. May you have a lovely day filled with excitement and anticipation for the holiday break ahead. Please take the time to share love and generosity with all those around you over the coming week. For those sailing, fair winds and following seas.

I was waiting for the usual sting in the tail...and it didn't happen!! Merry Christmas, Salty. See you anon.

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1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:

Happy Friday everyone. May you have a lovely day filled with excitement and anticipation for the holiday break ahead. Please take the time to share love and generosity with all those around you over the coming week. For those sailing, fair winds and following seas.

Crikey Salty someone wash your potty mouth or what.

On ya matey.

When does normal service resume.

Merry Xmas.

 

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46 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Well in all the pre Christmas excitement this item has been overlooked by TNZ because it simply has not been done until yesterday.

Sitting in it’s dock whilst being rigged Te Aihe is as tippy as fuck tilting quite heavily with just crew movement both foils in down mode.

Maybe TNZ sales and marketing department will right the wrong excuse the pun and conduct that elementary test sooner rather than later but as it has been said before if you cannot push a button or two and get upright and back racing quickly all those $millions and 50000 hours of design time has just produced a 75ft tip truck.

 

The Tractor came within a whisker of winning. Bikes and an X-Box controller won the Cup, If a tip truck is what it takes to defend it, so be it. Te Aihe translates to "The Dolphin" And we all know Dolphins are among the smartest creatures on the planet.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Listen pepe, I said turtle. You either are naturally very thick, or have esl handicap. The latter can be alleviated with some coursework, the former is with you forever.

I reckon the consensus here is the former.

So STFU and happy hole idays.

Ah, and could you care explain how can you turtle a cat in those conditions, forever.... barfidiot ?

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The Tractor came within a whisker of winning. Bikes and an X-Box controller won the Cup, If a tip truck is what it takes to defend it, so be it. Te Aihe translates to "The Dolphin" And we all know Dolphins are among the smartest creatures on the planet.

Yeah? Then Why do they keep getting caught up those those nets?

https://youtu.be/NIbrkQ5FCPo

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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/118353489/americas-cup-team-nzs-private-delight-in-crash-investigation

America's Cup: Team NZ's private delight in crash investigation

Team New Zealand have emphasised to Stuff through their initial testing that they feel the monohull is much safer than the foiling catamarans used in the last two editions of the Cup.

Team New Zealand's immediate response to the capsize has impressed international media, particularly the Italian sector when Challenger of Record Luna Rossa is in heavy training in Cagliari, joined by British syndicate Luna Rossa.

Various reports there concentrated on "the calm efficiency" of Team New Zealand's recovery job and the safety of the boat's actual design.

"Yes, it works!" began one article, which had a sense of relief around the AC75's self-righting system and the Kiwis' ability to "resume training without any particular problems".

Another Italian outlet said the incident showed a capsize could be countered "smoothly and without gravity for the crew and the boat".

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10 minutes ago, Onthelock! said:

Yeah? Then Why do they keep getting caught up those those nets?

https://youtu.be/NIbrkQ5FCPo

Because people are stupid. Its the same reason people insult a teenager because shes more intelligent than the powers that be. People are stupid. 

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Team New Zealand have emphasised to Stuff through their initial testing that they feel the monohull is much safer than the foiling catamarans used in the last two editions of the Cup.

Yup the lesser the distance the crew has to fall the safer the it is.

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup the lesser the distance the crew has to fall the safer the it is.

Perhaps more to do with the fact that it has been designed to roll over and capsize slowly with minimal damage as opposed to pitchpole, throwing the crew from one end of the boat to the other.

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41 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Perhaps more to do with the fact that it has been designed to roll over and capsize slowly with minimal damage as opposed to pitchpole, throwing the crew from one end of the boat to the other.

The only floating object that comes to mind that could achieve that is a barrel Clarcky .  

Designed perfectly for capsizing  without damage .

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1 hour ago, Onthelock! said:

Yeah? Then Why do they keep getting caught up those those nets?

same reason humans keep getting run over by cars

 

( spoiler .. they dont see them in time )

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21 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

same reason humans keep getting run over by cars

 

( spoiler .. they dont see them in time )

And guess what? In both cases, the third parties involved are human too. 

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