Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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Cameras? Or sensors of some kind?

Previously seen on first use of bulbed foil on Te Kahu

DSC_0406-crop.jpg

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55 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Yeah, duh, it was the port anhedral foil that was replaced with the new bulbed foil, sorry ...

The new foil has less pronounced anhedral and less, if any up-tip

stbd-foil-fitting.jpg

NOOOOO!!!!!, just don't use terms like that, it gives me flashbacks. 

BTW, love your work in getting these pics to us, keep it up.

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42 minutes ago, OldWoodenShip said:

Anyone have any guesses as to what's with the three-pronged alien antenna-like MHU?

Additional anemometers, sail vision, ...?

image.png.e13d1fa810388267730bfb2312653812.png

Most likely an ultrasonic wind speed and direction sensor. These have been around for over two decades now and they measure the doppeler frequency shift between each of the three arms (they have an ultrasonic transmitter/receiver at the tip of each arm). By comparing the wind speed between each pair of sensors the final wind speed and direction are computed. They have almost replaced the usual wind vane and anemometer at most weather stations, and with no moving parts they last a lot longer.

Of course, I may be wrong but that's my guess.

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5 hours ago, weta27 said:

Yeah, duh, it was the port anhedral foil that was replaced with the new bulbed foil, sorry ...

The new foil has less pronounced anhedral and less, if any up-tip

stbd-foil-fitting.jpg

Thanks Weta - looks like a b52.  And yes, looks like a new foil - perhaps a little thinner than its predecessor.  Interesting that ETNZ at this stage appears to favour less anhedral than the others.  Do you have any photos that would show whether they have also reduced the chord and/or span of the new foil? 

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18 hours ago, weta27 said:

Hard to tell, but from what we have seen, the wings on the new bulbed foil are a very shallow anhedral design, unlike the "T" foil it replaced, on which the wings appeared to be dead flat.

So presumably a whole new design?

Yeah I thought this too initially - but the shape is different - also its the opposite side of the boat from the T foil that was launched 

Doesn't mean they cant swap the foil on the end of the arm to the other side 

Could well be a new design 

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17 hours ago, Lickindip said:

my pic is its a new foil / bulb combo UNLESS they have gotten around it through the fairing rule but even then it doesn't make sense - unless they are taking the piss

I remember seeing a video on here about how other teams were trying to copy the Ausy winged keel but without changing the keel shape/weight at the same time they would never get the same advantage

the theory being you can put all the weight in the bulb and therefore have thinner foils. if you are using existing foils (thick) with the weight inside them and only adding a fairing for a bulb, the only thing you are really testing is the hydrodynamics around the junction. With the computer CFX simulations im surprised they don't know which is better (remember LR is now testing bulbless so going the opposite way.

the fact we haven't seen mini bulbs on the rudder to me says either the rudder is too small to need it or there is no hydrodynamic advantage

my pic is that the final foils will look more like the rudder inverted Y at the junction and ETNZ are playing mind games with the 75mm fairing allowance - I wonder if the foil fairings (not foil arm fairings) are counted as part of the mass change restrictions?

Maybe rudder loading is very different

14 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Hydro pressure sensors? 

There are also lines on the underside of some of their foils, which as a clue points toward cameras. Interesting we haven't seen others doing that, might be the lack of photos.

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Question on the 20% rule.

If you reuse the wings and just rotate them from T-shape to anhedral design, and do multiple designs (varying angles).  Does it count against the 6 foils allowed?

Or is it just considered 1 foil?

 

Plus, keeping the same wing shape but different angles (T to anhedral) would give them the best comparison data between the designs, as only one variable is changed.

 

Regards,

D.

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Simple.

How much of the material is no longer in it's original position? In you example ^ it would be way over 20%, so new foil.

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13 hours ago, OldWoodenShip said:

Anyone have any guesses as to what's with the three-pronged alien antenna-like MHU?

Additional anemometers, sail vision, ...?

image.png.e13d1fa810388267730bfb2312653812.png

In early July the array grew from three to four "prongs".

The forward-leaning arm holds an anemometer.

The two lateral arms hold what I think would be downward-pointing cameras monitoring both sides of the main.

The new fourth arm is aft-leaning, with what looks like it could possibly be another type of anomometer, or maybe something else again?

top-array-1.jpg

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5.5 When a component listed in Rule 5.1 is:
(a) first installed on an AC75 Class Yacht; or
(b) modified and re-installed on an AC Class Yacht,
and that yacht is afloat, the Competitor shall declare that component to the Measurement Committee
within 24 hours by emailing an updated version of the spreadsheet described in Rule 5.4.
5.6 A component must be declared and counted in the limits described in Rule 5.7 regardless of whether that
component satisfies the specific Rules controlling its parameters in this AC75 Class Rule. Any component
that serves or partly serves the purpose of a listed component shall be counted.
5.7 In Rule 5.1, the values in the column “Quantity” are the maximum numbers of each component that a
Competitor may declare.

5.10
For components listed in Rule 5.1 that have a “Change allowance” mass percentage:
(a)
(b)
5.11
When such a component is first declared according to Rule 5.5, the Competitor must declare to the
Measurement Committee:
(i) a component mass;
(ii) an IGES file of an exterior component shape; and
(iii) construction drawings showing the internal structure of the component.
At all times when that component is installed on an AC75 Class Yacht with that yacht afloat:
(i) at least 80% of the mass of the component must match the original component; and
(ii) a common portion of at least 80% of the mass of the original component must remain un-
modified and must match all declared versions of the component.

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

In early July the array grew from three to four "prongs".

The forward-leaning arm holds an anemometer.

The two lateral arms hold what I think would be downward-pointing cameras monitoring both sides of the main.

The new fourth arm is aft-leaning, with what looks like it could possibly be another type of anomometer, or maybe something else again?

top-array-1.jpg

That fourth arm looks like it also acts as a spreader for the wire/string used to help take some movement/vibration out of the camera arms. 

Is the thing on top of the fourth arm a decoy seagull?

 

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6 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Is the thing on top of the fourth arm a decoy seagull?

Version IV shown here.

images-1.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Is the thing on top of the fourth arm a decoy seagull?

Zoom in: It is a real seagull! 
 

what’s the Māori name for it? 

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8 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

That fourth arm looks like it also acts as a spreader for the wire/string used to help take some movement/vibration out of the camera arms. 

Is the thing on top of the fourth arm a decoy seagull?

 

Or a 5G mm-wave antenna (among other things)

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Zoom in: It is a real seagull! 
 

what’s the Māori name for it? 

Whaka Te Whino

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X may correct me but am pretty sure the Italian Seagulls (very fancy!) are Seaglingnotosi’s?  Perhaps that’s only the Sardegnan variety.. 

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Here's a hint Stingray: 'Wh' is pronounced as 'F" in Maori

Whaka Te Whino is pronounced as f-aka Ta F-i-kno

Possibly the name for Seagull, but also the phrase for 'I can't be certain'

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18 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Whaka Te Whino

:D

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3 hours ago, weta27 said:

In early July the array grew from three to four "prongs".

The forward-leaning arm holds an anemometer.

The two lateral arms hold what I think would be downward-pointing cameras monitoring both sides of the main.

The new fourth arm is aft-leaning, with what looks like it could possibly be another type of anomometer, or maybe something else again?

 

Weta27, nice shot but your are missing some key details.

1067882441_HeloNZ.jpg.a42a6fd32e55b26e890c11da112936ba.jpg

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Weta27, nice shot but your are missing some key details.

1067882441_HeloNZ.jpg.a42a6fd32e55b26e890c11da112936ba.jpg

That will definitely repel the seagulls. 

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7 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

Whaka Te Whino

Seriously?? The seagull would have done 4 laps by the time the commentator has struggled to say it!!

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This building records wind speed at an incredibly high level of accuracy whilst taking footage of the street below, I assume. 

F3E958D4-33DB-420C-A4F2-F6D791EA98F7.jpeg

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Certainly lots of wind to record.

From recollection there actually are cameras on at least one of those spikes.

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Sandbagging, lol? Although he does seem a bit disconcerted there at the end. :)

 

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WTF, Jeeezus cripes.

Imagine coming out of a 7 year coma right now. 

That'd be the reaction.

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10 hours ago, hoom said:

Certainly lots of wind to record.

From recollection there actually are cameras on at least one of those spikes.

Fancy changing the light bulbs?

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Dat acceleration away from a foiling kiteboarder already at speed :blink:

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30 minutes ago, hoom said:

Dat acceleration away from a foiling kiteboarder already at speed :blink:

As the man said, "Faaarrk". ;-)

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

 

Sums it up pretty well....... What the fxxk! Jesus Christ! :lol:

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Looked as though he kept pace with Defiant most of the time he was along side, but Te Aihe definitely left him for dust!

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42 minutes ago, Flippin Out said:

Assuming that's a foiling kite board.............

batman.png

That's a high speed kite too. Prolly very quick set up.

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

 

Is this the guy who "won" the coastal classic a few years back? He can't enter 'cause he's not a yacht but he smoked the fleet by hours IIRC

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7 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Is this the guy who "won" the coastal classic a few years back? He can't enter 'cause he's not a yacht but he smoked the fleet by hours IIRC

No different guy.

kite is fast but no clue on the foil and the bloke isn’t a top race guy. 
 

foiling kite set up will get fucked all day long regardless of gear or rider though

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sounds like defiants rib tried to wake wash him off the board ( dick move )

 

 

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The other dick move is sticking your kite straight in front of the ETNZ support boat as it’s accelerating because you want to see how fast the AC boat goes.  About 1.15 -124 

he starts upwind of it but then drops down towards and in front of it blocking it with the kite. Dick move. 

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Can’t imagine they were overly pleased to see him steaming straight at them earlier in the footage. Still, that acceleration at the end is something else.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

different guy.

kite is fast but no clue on the foil and the bloke isn’t a top race guy. 
 

foiling kite set up will get fucked all day long regardless of gear or rider though

Thought you weren't from nz, how do you know the locals?

What do you mean by your second comment regards a day long fucking?

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Unless things have changed that should be the side that has been running the none bulbed foil...

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35 minutes ago, barfy said:

Thought you weren't from nz, how do you know the locals?

What do you mean by your second comment regards a day long fucking?

See.  Shit. ;-)

Annotation 2020-08-21 205316.png

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3 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

See.  Shit. ;-)

Annotation 2020-08-21 205316.png

Thought I saw Lukas win the title a couple of months ago up here in boi. 

Anyway,

What's with the day long fucking? Enquiring minds and all that ....

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5 hours ago, barfy said:

Thought I saw Lukas win the title a couple of months ago up here in boi. 

Anyway,

What's with the day long fucking? Enquiring minds and all that ....

Ok

IF ol mate was really good then he would be winning world tour events against the the best in the world,  guys like Nico Parlier. Or at least getting on the podium , he would also be at the event that’s on in Poland with the top 80 men competing there. He isn’t/doesn’t.
 

He is a shit load better than me but I am not stupid enough to line up with an AC boat and then be a dick to the support boat. 

as for the day long fucking?  
top kite guys can’t peak at low to mid 40s on the bear away, downwind they sit at mid 30s

upwind mid to high 20s 

even the slowest of the four ac boats is faster on every point of sail. Plus the hydro means they can maintain it rather than the soft squishy human pushing the power through the foil and getting tired and then slowing down.

the ac boat wold thrash them around a Race course all day long. The only exception Might be if the AC boat had to race on a small short downwind slalom course that the kites sometimes race on where the manoeuvrability might win out.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

as for the day long fucking?

Ah,I get your gist now.

But, etnz seemed to happily line up and thrash him for shits and giggles instead of telling him to go ashore in L3 so all good fun.

Never said he would thrash the AC boat, was just wondering where you found the ranking.

Cheers

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

 

 

in that little vid the F50 is...

 

but Alex is the second fastest guy on water behind sail rocket with a peak of over 60 kts and a 500 average ( how records are dished out) of 57.97 kts.

maybe I missed it but no F50 has managed that yet.

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29 minutes ago, ivansh said:

Video removed?

Yep. But too late for sandbagging now. The cat (ahem) mono is out of the bag. ;-)

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Missed my point. Even the French beat a board on a given day.   Comparing them in random vids on various days fun but not good for generalization.

PS  which AC75 beat 57.97 lol?

 

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

 he would also be at the event that’s on in Poland with the top 80 men competing there.

Ha ha ha. You fucking idiot. Have you read the news recently?
 

Get back in your fucking hole. 
 

4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

He is a shit load better than me

Yes he is, in so many ways. 

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please explain why riders from the rest of the world can attend races but Kiwis that get smashed at their nationals and finish joint last cant?

you last point, congrats on selective editing,

 

not seen you this fired up for a while, its cute you are defending his honour but seriously?

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If you’d paid attention you’d note that he finished joint last because he didn’t compete. I don’t know why.

I don’t know why sailors are going to Poland to compete. I do know that the EU is recording 15,000 Covid cases a day, and on the rise.
 

Perhaps Nick respects his health and the health of others too much?

Perhaps the idea of being quarantined for two weeks on his return (and covering that cost) might have put him off the idea?

Perhaps it’s the fact that international travel options have basically dried up? 

Perhaps it‘s the age old problem that kiwis and Australians have always faced when competing against the world; everything’s a long way away, it costs a shit load to get there and you have to justify spending that money for a handful of races; something the Eurocentric sailors and administrators have always struggled to get their heads around. 
 

I don’t know if this guy’s any good and I understand that puberty is proving to be a difficult stage of life for you, but try not to be so naive.

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45 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

If you’d paid attention you’d note that he finished joint last because he didn’t compete. I don’t know why.

I don’t know why sailors are going to Poland to compete. I do know that the EU is recording 15,000 Covid cases a day, and on the rise.
 

Perhaps Nick respects his health and the health of others too much?

Perhaps the idea of being quarantined for two weeks on his return (and covering that cost) might have put him off the idea?

Perhaps it’s the fact that international travel options have basically dried up? 

Perhaps it‘s the age old problem that kiwis and Australians have always faced when competing against the world; everything’s a long way away, it costs a shit load to get there and you have to justify spending that money for a handful of races; something the Eurocentric sailors and administrators have always struggled to get their heads around. 
 

I don’t know if this guy’s any good and I understand that puberty is proving to be a difficult stage of life for you, but try not to be so naive.

Ok your right.

its everyone else’s fault, the guys a fuckin champ and no should ever be mean to a kiwi despite him being a dick to the team boat ( my only issue with him by the way) or are you trying to defend that? 
 

wether you like it or not, he isn’t a top end racer, if he was he would feature on here.. 

http://www.kitefoilworldseries.com/rankings

incase clicking the link is too hard the ranking stops at 122nd place 

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

wether you like it or not, he isn’t a top end racer, if he was he would feature on here.. 

http://www.kitefoilworldseries.com/rankings

incase clicking the link is too hard the ranking stops at 122nd place 

But what difference do you think world ranking would make to the topline speed differential whilst having a play drag racing a foiling yacht in a straight line on a saturday afternoon?

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5 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

But what difference do you think world ranking would make to the topline speed differential whilst having a play drag racing a foiling yacht in a straight line on a saturday afternoon?

Average kite guy foiling on race gear?maybe pushing 30kts max

anyone that’s good, say top 20 can stick another 10-12 on that. And maintain it for a decent while in flat water and perfect smooth wind. 

look this isn’t about the guy from the vid. It’s more that a kite foiler is an irrelevant yard stick to measure the speed of these boats.

The speed differential has been mentioned as a measure of performance in several vids and it really isn’t anything  to take stock in. That’s all I was trying to explain 

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Average kite guy foiling on race gear?maybe pushing 30kts max

anyone that’s good, say top 20 can stick another 10-12 on that. And maintain it for a decent while in flat water and perfect smooth wind. 

look this isn’t about the guy from the vid. It’s more that a kite foiler is an irrelevant yard stick to measure the speed of these boats.

The speed differential has been mentioned as a measure of performance in several vids and it really isn’t anything  to take stock in. That’s all I was trying to explain 

It wasn't fun or interesting to see a kite foiler swear in surprise at seeing a yacht to something he's clearly never seen a yacht do before? I thought it was.

I think you are taking people's discussion of the clip to suggest that such performance is exclusive to ETNZ - I certainly think any AC75 would have impressed him in that moment...

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Absolutely it would, i was only offering a counter to the idea that because of the kite he was on instantly  meant a high level of performance and that pulling away in the manner they did was extraordinary

 

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Absolutely it would, i was only offering a counter to the idea that because of the kite he was on instantly  meant a high level of performance and that pulling away in the manner they did was extraordinary

 

Right.. well I'd be happy to consider any kiteboarder being amongst the top 100 or so in the world, having "high level performance", and the pull away was pretty extraordinary to him :-)

Really not sure what your beef is here... seems like an odd hill to die on...

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Except for the fact that Jal's right.

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46 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Right.. well I'd be happy to consider any kiteboarder being amongst the top 100 or so in the world, having "high level performance", and the pull away was pretty extraordinary to him :-)

Really not sure what your beef is here... seems like an odd hill to die on...

The target sample of 100 racers isn’t as high performance as you think, mainly due to numbers of participants not being terribly high.

this place is tough sometimes, you have to accept that sometimes there are contributors that do have more specific knowledge  with which they will build their hill so to speak.  
 

people using foil kiters or windsurfers as a performance yardstick to measure an AC boat against is pointless. 
 

if I have been blunt in the way I have pointed it out then I am sorry but it doesn't change the fact.

My beef is that rather than the AM guys pulling a dick  move On the kiter ( that we didn’t get to see due to some handy editing) it’s that the kiter was dick to the ETNZ support boat. 

 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

people using foil kiters or windsurfers as a performance yardstick to measure an AC boat against is pointless. 

Anyway.

This isn't my hill but you seemed to get worked up quick like J, and I didn't even mention BA.

For performance of kites as a yardstick: word I heard was the locals figured they had angle on te aihe at first in the light. Then she had a long shed break after a month and that was over rover. Te kahu was always faster, but not much better then te aihe at first. That changed. Now te aihe has stepped.up again after her long break to be the boat to beat.

All relative, all hearsay. But perfect for here.

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12 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Meanwhile in Sardinia, a touch of updraft.

82A6759F-F087-44F7-BA48-7B6F13499E76-904x1024.jpeg

Nice air.

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Nice air.

Yeah but he's not in the top 100 so he can't be that high! :D

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6 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

The target sample of 100 racers isn’t as high performance as you think, mainly due to numbers of participants not being terribly high.

this place is tough sometimes, you have to accept that sometimes there are contributors that do have more specific knowledge  with which they will build their hill so to speak.  
 

people using foil kiters or windsurfers as a performance yardstick to measure an AC boat against is pointless. 
 

if I have been blunt in the way I have pointed it out then I am sorry but it doesn't change the fact.

My beef is that rather than the AM guys pulling a dick  move On the kiter ( that we didn’t get to see due to some handy editing) it’s that the kiter was dick to the ETNZ support boat. 

 

He probably knows them all personally. I doubt they’d be too worried. 

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

Yeah but he's not in the top 100 so he can't be that high! :D

You jest, but there are actually rankings for  that... :lol:

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

You jest, but there are actually rankings for  that... :lol:

What is TATA/Ineos Team's ranking after the last AC, do you have a list - not dock demolitions, nor scything heads off grinders, but actual results?

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Great shot - nice and big. She is looking very smooth, slick and faired for a gen1 boat. End plating for the sails, hull not so much....is that still a thing?

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Monster batten on the jib. Lots of orrible wrinkles on the deck sweeper with a strange vertical access slot..pies in there?

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Amazing that it can stay out of the water with the main looking like that.  Must be working off the top half.

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58 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

75369261_3536749743016719_15298612433917

Sorry but this must be an old photo - the Port foil is NOW with bulb.......

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Photo is from November... its just a great shot!

So WTF is the reason for spamming an 10 month old photo with no info?  Are you just trolling for up votes?

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

So WTF is the reason for spamming an 10 month old photo with no info?  Are you just trolling for up votes?

more relevant than 90% of the crap posted here usually...

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7 hours ago, nav said:

What is TATA/Ineos Team's ranking after the last AC, do you have a list - not dock demolitions, nor scything heads off grinders, but actual results?

I looked and couldn’t find that team entered in the last cup? 
 

Given that your being oh so hilarious you obviously mean Land Rover BAR, they did just as well as the ABs at the last rugby World Cup. 
 

 

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