Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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From a news blog in nz

Quote

 

In April 2019, Symmans emailed Dalton about the possibility of attending a health and safety briefing run by a specialist consultancy at a meeting of the event steering group.

“This [is] a workshop to identify ACEs risks,” Symmans wrote, adding that Horton “will be attending. [You] are also invited to attend.”
Dalton replied minutes later, indicating he did not want to attend.

“I would rather staple my cock to a burning building [than] attend a Health and Safety briefing – are you kidding me, that would be the most fucking boring arse covering load of mind numbing bullocks ever invented.”

 

 

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10 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Bugger, no free-to-air for Aussies. :angry:

Are Aussies even interested in the AC? I got the impression they were over it. ;-)

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1 hour ago, PhilipNZ said:

From a news blog in nz

“I would rather staple my cock to a burning building [than] attend a Health and Safety briefing – are you kidding me, that would be the most fucking boring arse covering load of mind numbing bullocks ever invented.”

Yep, that sounds like Dalts :). And Symans would have given him strife over the size of the staples he'd need.

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That colorful Dalts response is supposed to be admirable? Why? 

My guess is that he wanted nothing to do with ‘Safety’ reasons because it may involve ACE money getting spent on safety, money he wanted to ‘save’ to direct into ETNZ instead? 
 

Do I like the fact GD has money problems? No, but it is very obviously true. 

 

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A few from this morning's dock-out.

TVNZ was covering it, appeared to be interviewing Steven Ferguson and others, plus a team-talk and team photo.

Photo 3 illustrates that even on such a high-tech piece of kit there are many and surprising uses for duct tape.

Also a great chance to get close-ups of those various attachments.

DSC_2435.jpg

DSC_2463.jpg

DSC_2493.jpg

DSC_2496.jpg

DSC_2505.jpg

DSC_2457.jpg

DSC_2454.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

That colorful Dalts response is supposed to be admirable? Why? 

My guess is that he wanted nothing to do with ‘Safety’ reasons because it may involve ACE money getting spent on safety, money he wanted to ‘save’ to direct into ETNZ instead? 
 

Do I like the fact GD has money problems? No, but it is very obviously true. 

 

As the man said, his primary focus is on a successful Defence. Everything else is unwanted distraction.

That's the kind of focus and determination I admire from a successful team leader.

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

As the man said, his primary focus is on a successful Defence. Everything else is unwanted distraction.

That's the kind of focus and determination I admire from a successful team leader.

Sure, admirable.

But that role is in financial conflict with his ACE role and so he should (or will likely be forced to) drop that charade. 
 

Again, Matteo should kick in the few $M’s at stake, or else why was he even in this thing? ETNZ has obvious money problems, it’s been made painfully clear. 

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22 minutes ago, weta27 said:

DSC_2435.jpg

DSC_2463.jpg

DSC_2493.jpg

Sorry, my phone would not allow me to eliminate photos 1 and 3, but in the second one, the helmsman is giving you the evil eye. May want to consider a duck blind. 

 

Nice work, btw.

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Stop wait something weird is going on.  i noticed something in those photos then started going back through old ones....

When did Glenn stop wearing ugly white sunglasses?  Are we sure that's even Glenn any more?  Can someone get him to order fish and chips?

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9 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Stop wait something weird is going on.  i noticed something in those photos then started going back through old ones....

When did Glenn stop wearing ugly white sunglasses?  Are we sure that's even Glenn any more?  Can someone get him to order fish and chips?

For this AC Cycle Glenn is into the hip, new Tern Shades!  

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17 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Sure, admirable.

But that role is in financial conflict with his ACE role and so he should (or will likely be forced to) drop that charade. 
 

Again, Matteo should kick in the few $M’s at stake, or else why was he even in this thing? ETNZ has obvious money problems, it’s been made painfully clear. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12370792

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

Damn, GD dresses up like that sometimes? 

Like the other things that exist only in your fantasy world - the faster OTUSAs, corrupt ACEs, bankrupt ETNZs, evil CORs, and crooked GDs.

Seriously, there is something medically wrong here mate...

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5 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

 

Seriously, there is something medically wrong here mate...

then get off the computer and go get it checked out ! i'm sure there's a cream for it.

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Before leaving, the team was addressed by I'm not sure who (he had his back to me), and Pete B. appeared to reply.

DSC_2470.jpg

DSC_2471.jpg

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Sure, admirable.

But that role is in financial conflict with his ACE role and so he should (or will likely be forced to) drop that charade. 
 

Again, Matteo should kick in the few $M’s at stake, or else why was he even in this thing? ETNZ has obvious money problems, it’s been made painfully clear. 

Funny?   - No!

Insightful?   - No!

Accurate?  - No!

Instructive? - No!

Give it a rest, mate. Your shit scattering is getting boring.

Your many positive contributions to this forum don't confer license to insult and belittle.

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30 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Funny?   - No!

Insightful?   - No!

Accurate?  - No!

Instructive? - No!

Give it a rest, mate. Your shit scattering is getting boring.

Your many positive contributions to this forum don't confer license to insult and belittle.

I think Stinger is coming down with Paranoid Schizophrenia. He’s delusional that there’s a giant conspiracy against him and AM. However there’s another illness that matches paranoid schizophrenia which is late onset syphilis.  Hard to tell if he’s one or the other. 

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Perhaps it is a good sign for ETNZ, Stingers is beginning with the excuses already!!

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43 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Give it a rest, mate.

It’s all over the news in NZ! Are we supposed to just ignore it here? 

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@weta27 if you keep up this brilliant work, I'm going to have fears for your safety. ETNZ may send out the hit squad. Be careful mate. But I suggest whacking this on whenever you're out and about with a camera.

disguise.jpg

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13 hours ago, JonRowe said:

And free online...

Ah, OK. From the comments I understand the full races will be shown online.  Cool, I'll stop grumbling now. :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

The same could be said when they introduced the cycles. Team NZ don't make mistakes or take massive risks with their designs. If this is true bring it on. Can't read the article without subscribing

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20 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

The same could be said when they introduced the cycles. Team NZ don't make mistakes or take massive risks with their designs. If this is true bring it on. Can't read the article without subscribing

Cough.... NZL82....... Cough     :ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, Chapter Four said:

Cough.... NZL82....... Cough     :ph34r:

Yep NZL 82  it was a memorable disaster.

 I think the team still apply the lessons learned from that time today, they do not wish a repeat,  they also know risk VS reward and the metric tonnes of design and input data combined with pretty cutting edge Sim help avoid most of the design pitfalls today.

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6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Are Aussies even interested in the AC? I got the impression they were over it. ;-)

I can't speak for all Aussies of course... but I certainly am. Have re-watched the entire AC35 series several times. I must admit that I went off AC a bit when foiling was first introduced, being an older fart I loved the monos... but as time went by I got hooked.

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53 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

The same could be said when they introduced the cycles. Team NZ don't make mistakes or take massive risks with their designs. If this is true bring it on. Can't read the article without subscribing

Pssst.... Firefox browser plus "Bypass Paywalls" Extension....

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6 hours ago, PhilipNZ said:

From a news blog in nz

 

Maybe Mayo & Calder were looking for the use of large staples?

 

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

The same could be said when they introduced the cycles. Team NZ don't make mistakes or take massive risks with their designs. If this is true bring it on. Can't read the article without subscribing

They've learned from the Hula days...

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36 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

Are those not pointing up? With no actual camera in the housing either?

They are lighter without actual cameras in the housings :)

 

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35 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

Are those not pointing up? With no actual camera in the housing either?

You are probably right?

But if they are pointing up and forward then they would be shooting sky most of the time; only useful when flying a #1 jib or code zero??

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18 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

It was mentioned that ETNZ sailed their boat during training using a computer, then had the crew members try to match the computer. Interesting, didn't know that. Would they be able to try that while testing on the AC75 as well?

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2 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Yep NZL 82  it was a memorable disaster.

 I think the team still apply the lessons learned from that time today, they do not wish a repeat,  they also know risk VS reward and the metric tonnes of design and input data combined with pretty cutting edge Sim help avoid most of the design pitfalls today.

NZL82 was the product of a cash strapped campaign. It’s easy just to blame the Hula, but an old mast from previous campaigns plus limited sail wardrobe equals a bad boat

also we need to give some credit to Alinghi who were well funded, sailed and designed. It’s more of them being very good and us being average. There crew was a lot better than ours as well..for reasons we all know to well

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Notice Dalton wasn't even in that video apart from a few highlights. But no interviews or anything. Shoebridge is now representing the team a lot more. One would think Dalton would have surely been a part of a video like that one, incorporating so much history and success of ETNZ of which he is a huge part. Perhaps Dalton is passing the torch/ has passed the torch so to speak, to Kevin Shoebridge. Will we see a changing of the guard at ETNZ after this campaign?

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2 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Yep NZL 82  it was a memorable disaster.

 I think the team still apply the lessons learned from that time today, they do not wish a repeat,  they also know risk VS reward and the metric tonnes of design and input data combined with pretty cutting edge Sim help avoid most of the design pitfalls today.

NZL 82 happened when the team was in crisis. Coutts & Butterworth and some others left to go to Alinghi so it ended up being NZ vs NZ, one of the NZ teams won it anyway.  

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

NZL 82 happened when the team was in crisis. Coutts & Butterworth and some others left to go to Alinghi so it ended up being NZ vs NZ, one of the NZ teams won it anyway.  

Completely agree and to know that essentially the A team was working for the Swiss probably did not help much.

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More than a few examples of anecdotal fallacy and at least one of the fallacy of incomplete evidence been going on

Lets take the most serious (and I don't say this lightly because I know he is a cultural  hero), but GD's dismissal of H&S is very sad. Its not boring that people get to go home to their families at night. GD thinks it doesn't matter because he survived, and so anyone else can if they are good enough. That is as fallacious as Trump's view that because he survived Covid anyone can if they are "strong" enough. My work takes me into industries where thousands of people live who would have died with the old "H&S is boring" view. If you think that it doesn't apply to this sport, look at the work done in F1. As head of the race organisation, he should be all over that. 

As for the rest, NZ are always good with their innovation - based on the fact that the cycles did well last time. That is just plain and simple anecdotal fallacy. And when evidence is pointed out to the contrary (NZL 82) that is excluded based on exceptional circumstances:

1) being cash strapped (which conveniently ignores the fact that no campaign ever thinks it has too much money, and definitely not this ETNZ one

2) That they have learned since (ignoring the fact that other teams may have done likewise)

Also if NZ were so good apart from that one exception, how come that last one was the only time they have won it since NZL 82 lost it?

NZ are a good team, with a good chance, but they are not invincible based on some cultural inevitability.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Notice Dalton wasn't even in that video apart from a few highlights. But no interviews or anything. Shoebridge is now representing the team a lot more. One would think Dalton would have surely been a part of a video like that one, incorporating so much history and success of ETNZ of which he is a huge part. Perhaps Dalton is passing the torch/ has passed the torch so to speak, to Kevin Shoebridge. Will we see a changing of the guard at ETNZ after this campaign?

Shoebridge was part of KZ7 in 1987 and NZL32 in 1995, so not surprising he is the lead for the video.

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1 minute ago, fish7yu said:

Shoebridge was part of KZ7 in 1987 and NZL32 in 1995, so not surprising he is the lead for the video.

Absolutely. But Dalton has been in charge since 2004. 16 years Dalton has led the team, through the good times and the bad times. 

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10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

More than a few examples of anecdotal fallacy and at least one of the fallacy of incomplete evidence been going on

Lets take the most serious (and I don't say this lightly because I know he is a cultural  hero), but GD's dismissal of H&S is very sad. Its not boring that people get to go home to their families at night. GD thinks it doesn't matter because he survived, and so anyone else can if they are good enough. That is as fallacious as Trump's view that because he survived Covid anyone can if they are "strong" enough. My work takes me into industries where thousands of people live who would have died with the old "H&S is boring" view. If you think that it doesn't apply to this sport, look at the work done in F1. As head of the race organisation, he should be all over that. 

As for the rest, NZ are always good with their innovation - based on the fact that the cycles did well last time. That is just plain and simple anecdotal fallacy. And when evidence is pointed out to the contrary (NZL 82) that is excluded based on exceptional circumstances:

1) being cash strapped (which conveniently ignores the fact that no campaign ever thinks it has too much money, and definitely not this ETNZ one

2) That they have learned since (ignoring the fact that other teams may have done likewise)

Also if NZ were so good apart from that one exception, how come that last one was the only time they have won it since NZL 82 lost it?

NZ are a good team, with a good chance, but they are not invincible based on some cultural inevitability.

 

 

GD has never dismissed H&S.

Innovation - KZ7, KZ1, NZL20, NZL32, NZL60, all ahead of their time, all innovative concepts in their own right. NZL82 was the first time ETNZ showed any vulnerability in any area. And its understandable given the circumstances around the team at that time.

No one has said they're invincible, but they are the most formidable team in the Americas Cup right now. That much is certain.

Which is in its own way, an unbelievable prospect given the amount of resource other teams have had/ or do have at their disposal.

We win because we're able to out think our opposition. Not out spend them.

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

NZL 82 happened when the team was in crisis. Coutts & Butterworth and some others left to go to Alinghi so it ended up being NZ vs NZ, one of the NZ teams won it anyway.  

The AC32 outcome was not entirely a matter of crew.
NZL 82 AND SUI 64 were quite different in design and Alinghi certainly had the better suit of sails.

1C2B09D5-2475-462B-9621-763AD00BA477.jpeg.be5a945b91b8f74cbbbb7421521529df.jpeg
301E352C-395F-4523-9C94-84D2EE6F0E91.jpeg.335f2f0f2d972f597bec20db454a2661.jpeg

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8 hours ago, weta27 said:

A few from this morning's dock-out.

TVNZ was covering it, appeared to be interviewing Steven Ferguson and others, plus a team-talk and team photo.

Photo 3 illustrates that even on such a high-tech piece of kit there are many and surprising uses for duct tape.

Also a great chance to get close-ups of those various attachments.

DSC_2435.jpg

DSC_2463.jpg

DSC_2493.jpg

DSC_2496.jpg

DSC_2505.jpg

DSC_2457.jpg

DSC_2454.jpg

Second photo demonstrates burlings situational awareness.

Third has good detail of the "mainsheet".. Only one double action ram.. Maybe the leech strops laying over pins on both sides. Is the sock on the top to hide bits or chaff protection.

The latest airflow vid shows not just the tip of the foil breaking the surface, but running cleanly above.

Interesting day.

Thanks to you wets.

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15 minutes ago, barfy said:

The latest airflow vid shows not just the tip of the foil breaking the surface, but running cleanly above.

I think they're swapping around the tips for this T foil... looks straight in this video, but up swept in some previous vids.  IIRC, NZ changed tips in the AC35, but for greater/lesser length.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

The AC32 outcome was not entirely a matter of crew.
NZL 82 AND SUI 64 were quite different in design and Alinghi certainly had the better suit of sails.

1C2B09D5-2475-462B-9621-763AD00BA477.jpeg.be5a945b91b8f74cbbbb7421521529df.jpeg
301E352C-395F-4523-9C94-84D2EE6F0E91.jpeg.335f2f0f2d972f597bec20db454a2661.jpeg

Oh there boat was better as well...simple fact of life. I was just replying to a previous post in regards to radical design. The fact that NZL 82 been beaten easily is NOT just the radical Hula 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

GD has never dismissed H&S.

Innovation - KZ7, KZ1, NZL20, NZL32, NZL60, all ahead of their time, all innovative concepts in their own right. NZL82 was the first time ETNZ showed any vulnerability in any area. And its understandable given the circumstances around the team at that time.

No one has said they're invincible, but they are the most formidable team in the Americas Cup right now. That much is certain.

Which is in its own way, an unbelievable prospect given the amount of resource other teams have had/ or do have at their disposal.

We win because we're able to out think our opposition. Not out spend them.

GD has never never dismissed H&S? How else do you interpret the quote 

"“I would rather staple my cock to a burning building [than] attend a Health and Safety briefing – are you kidding me, that would be the most fucking boring arse covering load of mind numbing bullocks ever invented.”"

And the rest of your response really just repeats the anecdotal fallacy with additional incomplete evidence fallacy.

Just because your innovation worked in the past, doesn't mean they will this time. Indeed they haven't worked sufficiently well for most of this century that you did win. And the situation is somewhat different now than in 2000. So actually all you can really point to is that your innovation was good enough to win last time around. And I'm not sure on the evidence that you have less money either. I think ETNZ is generally pretty well funded.

And remember that of the challengers this time around, LR weren't there last time and it was Ineos' first time out. 

Good on you last time. But this is a new event

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8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

It’s all over the news in NZ! Are we supposed to just ignore it here? 

Pay attention. . It  was largely a beat-up story pushed hard by the NZ Herald based irresponsibly on the Mayo and Calder now disproved allegations.  Now it''s last weeks fish wrapper.

But I've pointed this out to you before.

Move on please. Nothing to see here.

Go find another dead horse to whip the shit out of.

 

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

GD has never dismissed H&S.

Innovation - KZ7, KZ1, NZL20, NZL32, NZL60, all ahead of their time, all innovative concepts in their own right. NZL82 was the first time ETNZ showed any vulnerability in any area. And its understandable given the circumstances around the team at that time.

No one has said they're invincible, but they are the most formidable team in the Americas Cup right now. That much is certain.

Which is in its own way, an unbelievable prospect given the amount of resource other teams have had/ or do have at their disposal.

We win because we're able to out think our opposition. Not out spend them.

NZL20 was innovative but not a fast boat. I was lucky enough to talk to Doug Peterson about this boat and he was not complimentary.  The twin keel did work to some degree, but the boat was about stiff as a slice of cheese on a hot day. It was well sailed and had a good set of sails. But according to Doug who has seen the performance data for both  NZL20  and American Cubed, it would of got trounced big time in the final. 
Doug was really a great guy and not pretentious at all, and would happily talked to a bumpkin like me.  I only spoke to him once but was impressed by his openness and knowledge 

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1 minute ago, KiwiJoker said:

Pay attention. . It  was largely a beat-up story pushed hard by the NZ Herald based irresponsibly on the Mayo and Calder now disproved allegations.  Now it''s last weeks fish wrapper.

But I've pointed this out to you before.

Move on please. Nothing to see here.

Go find another dead horse to whip the shit out of.

Hey Stinger, on reflection there is a small detail we can still discuss.  That's Dalton's $3 million claim on the gummint funds for the team's work on its share of research on design work related to rule development.  It is all that remains of the M&C shambles.

Dalts was reproved for sloppy bookkeeping, which was understandable perhaps, given the project's urgency.

His claim appears credible but the accountant's refusal to pay is being mediated.

If he loses, which I doubt, at least you'll have some small and legitimate morsel to crow about.

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7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

GD has never never dismissed H&S? How else do you interpret the quote 

"“I would rather staple my cock to a burning building [than] attend a Health and Safety briefing – are you kidding me, that would be the most fucking boring arse covering load of mind numbing bullocks ever invented.”"

And the rest of your response really just repeats the anecdotal fallacy with additional incomplete evidence fallacy.

Just because your innovation worked in the past, doesn't mean they will this time. Indeed they haven't worked sufficiently well for most of this century that you did win. And the situation is somewhat different now than in 2000. So actually all you can really point to is that your innovation was good enough to win last time around. And I'm not sure on the evidence that you have less money either. I think ETNZ is generally pretty well funded.

And remember that of the challengers this time around, LR weren't there last time and it was Ineos' first time out. 

Good on you last time. But this is a new event

Ugh, I feel the same way! I have to attend H&S meetings and briefings at my job too, you think I want to go to those? Fuck NO. They're a snoozefest of bureaucratic nonsense! But I go, and I listen to what is being said, because if I don't, and something happens and I don't know what to do, it could be the difference between going home to my family or not, as it is for everyone else i work with.

All it means is he doesn't like going to meetings ya muppet! A lot of Kiwi's feel the same way! But its something we have to do. 

Team NZ's track record of innovation speaks for itself. We've either won, or changed the game, or both. 

In terms of funding, YES we are well funded (as all teams are) but relative to the other teams? Who knows, unless you are privy to all the team budgets enough to compare each one, then you are spouting crap.

Yes, it was Ineo's first time out, but by a lot of accounts (on here at least) AM is in the box seat, and its their first time out too. So who knows.

Yes, it is a new event, and we will see who comes out on top.

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No-one likes meetings, but you express that view that you clearly don't think much of H&S.

As for the funding, you were the one that asserted that NZ always innovate which offsets not having as much money. So since you now admit none of us know the budgets including you, why did you make the assertion? I said I wasn't sure on funding

 

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7 hours ago, mako23 said:

NZL20 was innovative but not a fast boat. I was lucky enough to talk to Doug Peterson about this boat and he was not complimentary.  The twin keel did work to some degree, but the boat was about stiff as a slice of cheese on a hot day. It was well sailed and had a good set of sails. But according to Doug who has seen the performance data for both  NZL20  and American Cubed, it would of got trounced big time in the final. 
Doug was really a great guy and not pretentious at all, and would happily talked to a bumpkin like me.  I only spoke to him once but was impressed by his openness and knowledge 

True and Cubed pissed all over Il Moro di Venezia which overcame NZL 20 after trailing 4-1 to win the Louis Vuitton 5-3.

Race 5 was annulled on protest.

All the bowsprit shenanigans were a unwelcome distraction but the plain truth is the fastest boat won.

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

No-one likes meetings, but you express that view that you clearly don't think much of H&S.

As for the funding, you were the one that asserted that NZ always innovate which offsets not having as much money. So since you now admit none of us know the budgets including you, why did you make the assertion? I said I wasn't sure on funding

 

There are a lot of bosses on a lot of sites that don’t like meetings. Whether it’s health n safety, managerial, project management etc. Doesn’t mean you don’t think much of what ever that meeting is about. It just means you’d rather being doing something, anything other than sitting around a table in a board room talking shit to people who wouldn’t have a clue about what the guys who put in the hard yards are doing. I can guarantee you most if not all of the sailing crew would rather be ripping around the harbour at 40 knots than sitting around in a board room in a health n safety meeting. But you do it because you want to make sure you and the guys around you get home safely at the end of the day.

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28 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Is that Te Kahu out on the dock, wrapped in plastic? Looks too small to be B2.

 

TK1.jpg

Yep, looked like Te Kahu. Sorry only had my phone to take a photo this morning.

IMG_20201008_084413_465 (2).jpg

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20 hours ago, mako23 said:

I think Stinger is coming down with Paranoid Schizophrenia. He’s delusional that there’s a giant conspiracy against him and AM. However there’s another illness that matches paranoid schizophrenia which is late onset syphilis.  Hard to tell if he’s one or the other. 

He's got a uv light up his butt for his covid infection

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15 hours ago, terrafirma said:

NZL 82 happened when the team was in crisis. Coutts & Butterworth and some others left to go to Alinghi so it ended up being NZ vs NZ, one of the NZ teams won it anyway.  

And poor Schnackenberg copped most of the blame, unfairly!!

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4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

True and Cubed pissed all over Il Moro di Venezia which overcame NZL 20 after trailing 4-1 to win the Louis Vuitton 5-3.

Race 5 was annulled on protest.

All the bowsprit shenanigans were a unwelcome distraction but the plain truth is the fastest boat won.

A lot of good lessons were learnt in that campaign. Paul Cayard really put the torch on us and we didn’t handle it well. After that we become a lot more battle hardened. Might explain why we play hard and ruthless these days.  What doesn’t kill you can make you stronger. In the days of KZ7 and Dennis Conner demanding a core sample we really got flustered and annoyed. These days we would just laughs it off as standard mind games that come with the cup. GD is sure one tough bastard and  not above playing mind games with the opposition.  The reality is you have to be tough to win, and also have a fast boat. 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

And poor Schnackenberg copped most of the blame, unfairly!!

I'm not so sure about that. It was a very design focussed team that produced a boat a young crew would sail. Schnackenberg was at the centre of the design, They had to save weight everywhere else to compensate for the weight of the Hula and the boat broke accordingly. He copped what he deserved. It was a very high risk idea for not a lot of reward.

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20 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Yep NZL 82  it was a memorable disaster.

 I think the team still apply the lessons learned from that time today, they do not wish a repeat,  they also know risk VS reward and the metric tonnes of design and input data combined with pretty cutting edge Sim help avoid most of the design pitfalls today.

82 was a fast boat, not necessarily a disaster. The issue was that TNZ pushed too hard and didn't cover off the reliability.

They then went on to win the first regatta series after they rebuilt, sailing 82 minus the hula (from memory).

Edit: I should also note that Grant Simmer talks about this in his interview with Shirley R. They went to great lengths to have the hula reduced in effectiveness through measuring.

Edited by meanermachine

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17 hours ago, Priscilla said:

The AC32 outcome was not entirely a matter of crew.
NZL 82 AND SUI 64 were quite different in design and Alinghi certainly had the better suit of sails.

1C2B09D5-2475-462B-9621-763AD00BA477.jpeg.be5a945b91b8f74cbbbb7421521529df.jpeg
301E352C-395F-4523-9C94-84D2EE6F0E91.jpeg.335f2f0f2d972f597bec20db454a2661.jpeg

Yes but your missing the point. If you think the "CREW" in this case Coutts, Butterworth & Co had nothing to do with the design you are sadly mistaken. To think the Swiss just came along and designed a faster boat than NZL82 is the stuff of dreams. Intellectual property with regards to designing the fastest boat had Coutts stamped all over it. The selection of some key designers, the spend on testing etc was all in the reasoning Ernesto spent what it took. Buying Coutts & Co won them the cup. It was NZ vs NZ which doesn't say a lot about the other teams. The Coutts legacy continued to the end of the AC34. Even the Italians figured having Butterworth in their team was better than not.

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19 hours ago, weta27 said:

But if they are pointing up and forward then they would be shooting sky most of the time

They're there to film seagulls. How else could they get accurate speed data?

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1 hour ago, meanermachine said:

82 was a fast boat, not necessarily a disaster. The issue was that TNZ pushed too hard and didn't cover off the reliability.

They then went on to win the first regatta series after they rebuilt, sailing 82 minus the hula (from memory).

Edit: I should also note that Grant Simmer talks about this in his interview with Shirley R. They went to great lengths to have the hula reduced in effectiveness through measuring.

In another one of Shirely's podcasts, Ben said that 82 was a good boat and the hula a good concept (let down by a lack of cash and a team that had lost so many key players in 2000).

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5 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

I'm not so sure about that. It was a very design focussed team that produced a boat a young crew would sail. Schnackenberg was at the centre of the design, They had to save weight everywhere else to compensate for the weight of the Hula and the boat broke accordingly. He copped what he deserved. It was a very high risk idea for not a lot of reward.

At least he stayed with the team, represented his country and gave it his best shot.

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2 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

At least he stayed with the team, represented his country and gave it his best shot.

He did...

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9 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Yep, looked like Te Kahu. Sorry only had my phone to take a photo this morning.

IMG_20201008_084413_465 (2).jpg

Hope she is not gone for good what a cracker boat.
E6FACE03-14B1-47B6-B5A5-83F234545054.jpeg.0a5cafd9cee265f9f7e189efce040ab3.jpeg

FDA8DAB8-9CBF-48FF-A60C-1000914F078B.thumb.jpeg.2bef48b15f60e9ac5f8b94905075ca34.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

In another one of Shirely's podcasts, Ben said that 82 was a good boat and the hula a good concept (let down by a lack of cash and a team that had lost so many key players in 2000).

Brad Butterworth also said the same thing "I don't think she was a bad boat, it was a concept well ahead of her time"

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On 10/7/2020 at 12:50 PM, weta27 said:

A few from this morning's dock-out.

DSC_2435.jpg

This one really shows how shockingly narrow the waterline is.

It'd be super narrow on a normal ballasted boat & this is with it floating on the flat bit above the belly.

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

 

Wonder who is helming after the manoeuvre. Reckon Blair would be busy with flight control, Glen on trimming up the new line..

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On 10/7/2020 at 7:48 AM, weta27 said:

You are probably right?

But if they are pointing up and forward then they would be shooting sky most of the time; only useful when flying a #1 jib or code zero??

Does not seem right does it.... I guess the lucky bugger who get hoisted up the rig can alter the angle etc, but what is so important about the top of the fore sail? 

We really do discuss every detail, perhaps we are wasted in our day jobs! 

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On 10/6/2020 at 11:53 PM, MaxHugen said:

It was mentioned that ETNZ sailed their boat during training using a computer, then had the crew members try to match the computer. Interesting, didn't know that. Would they be able to try that while testing on the AC75 as well?

Was it a computer system they developed or part of the package "leased" to them by LR? I recall LR working on this on their converted AC45s (one of which TNZ later sailed) and thought the computer controlled boat beat the humans for the first time shortly before they pulled the plug on the AC35 campaign. 

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1 hour ago, Nauti Buoy said:

Was it a computer system they developed or part of the package "leased" to them by LR? I recall LR working on this on their converted AC45s (one of which TNZ later sailed) and thought the computer controlled boat beat the humans for the first time shortly before they pulled the plug on the AC35 campaign. 

This boat? 

9A13E25B-99DF-4CE0-9905-8F152689E4E8.jpeg

0CD4DF9A-823C-4341-B48D-CD466517C56C.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Nauti Buoy said:

Was it a computer system they developed or part of the package "leased" to them by LR? I recall LR working on this on their converted AC45s (one of which TNZ later sailed) and thought the computer controlled boat beat the humans for the first time shortly before they pulled the plug on the AC35 campaign. 

No.

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