Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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3 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Another photo (from the article above) showing extensive damage.

yysw298377.jpg

That floating glass bus stop may explain the odd reflection lines that appear to have bamboozled us.

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Crikey Clarkey you’ll be happy Amway actually has a bustle on B2.

They should have kept the matt hull finish which would have lessened the reflective confusion around here.

 

 

92F45698-9F1B-4F38-8CD1-774B132F891D.thumb.jpeg.cf04d5c0dcdb4c586d60004e65821e12.jpeg

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8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Why not? The other teams will know one way or another anyway. They don't have all the spy boats and photographers just to take pictures when everything goes well

Oh and we haven't heard from any of those spy boats or the gleefully posted pictures?

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/232499/Americas-Cup-Rialto-Te-Aihe-goes-into-storage

"The team told Sail-World that Te Aihe had been "temporarily retired". The "retirement" is not as a result of Te Aihe's capsize on October 3, while sailing in strong winds.

There were some parts that had moved across from Te Aihe to the yet to be launched race boat, expected to be launched in early November. Switching of parts from a test boat to the race boat was done previously by ETNZ in the 2013 campaign in AC72's - when the team's first boat was butchered for parts to go on the race boat. The move both saves money, but also ensures continuity and means that time is not wasted debugging new gear.

I wonder whether those relocated parts included the complete arms-lifting system. I imagine Cariboni would have designed the entire system within a frame (to take all the loads) which can be dropped straight into any AC75, with the frame mounting points/locations provided to all participants..(though not depicted in the graphic below...)

651303979_Cantingsys.JPG.3199f3e052cfe009b5bd94967264c08b.JPG

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So they’re at least entertaining the idea of a two boat program. Te Aihe is “Temporarily retired” so we could see her again, presumably modified before Cup time. The last time they could train with 2 boats in 2013, when asked early in that campaign it was an unequivocal “No”. They did have Luna Rossa I guess. But Definitely not a “No” this time.

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When the Prada Cup gets under way, only the Challengers will be racing each other. As Defender, it is only at this point, the start of the Prada Cup on January 15, that the Team New Zealand are allowed to train against another boat - one of their own.

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34 minutes ago, Indio said:

I wonder whether those relocated parts included the complete arms-lifting system. I imagine Cariboni would have designed the entire system within a frame (to take all the loads) which can be dropped straight into any AC75, with the frame mounting points/locations provided to all participants..(though not depicted in the graphic below...)

651303979_Cantingsys.JPG.3199f3e052cfe009b5bd94967264c08b.JPG

17788914b458fbf968859a00be2feff4.jpg.c712af8bb9f5ab93136260e2d97f53d6.jpg

The whole foil mechanism will swap out.

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8 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

17788914b458fbf968859a00be2feff4.jpg.c712af8bb9f5ab93136260e2d97f53d6.jpg

The whole foil mechanism will swap out.

How big a hole will need to be cut to enable the swap?

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4 minutes ago, Rushman said:

How big a hole will need to be cut to enable the swap?

none.

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23 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So they’re at least entertaining the idea of a two boat program. Te Aihe is “Temporarily retired” so we could see her again, presumably modified before Cup time. The last time they could train with 2 boats in 2013, when asked early in that campaign it was an unequivocal “No”. They did have Luna Rossa I guess. But Definitely not a “No” this time.

You would also keep your powder dry.  If over the next month with all the spying that will be going on (imagine the gas being burnt on all those RIBS!) one team has done something that has an advantage why wouldn't you try modifying your first boat?  This is where ETNZ have an advantage as they can then race against their own modified boat - no one else can.

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11 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yes from what I've seen the decks slide out like the lids on a pencil box.

Cool concept, look forward to seeing photos of that (after the match I am guessing)

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31 minutes ago, Rushman said:

How big a hole will need to be cut to enable the swap?

I would imagine things unbolt making cutting holes unnecessary.

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7 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Cool concept, look forward to seeing photos of that (after the match I am guessing)

May not be quite like a pencil case but it wouldn't make much sense to mould too much of the deck into the hull.  I'm not sure but is the deck itself considered part of the hull measurement?  I don't think it is.  The hull shape for content and modification purposes finishes at the deck perimeter.

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29 minutes ago, Rushman said:

How big a hole will need to be cut to enable the swap?

The foil arms would be inserted from the outside.

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3 minutes ago, JustinL42 said:

I would imagine things unbolt making cutting holes unnecessary.

Besides, they use a drum mount for each arm rather than the direct-connect shown on what appears to be a live-demo display at a trade fair. They can simply drop the whole rectangular frame into it's mounting and away they go..

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So they get redacted documents, and the affadavit from when they lost last time.

What a win!

It's like being given censored pics of your wifes affair, and a doctors note with dick measurements of the guy she screwed.

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3 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

So they get redacted documents, and the affadavit from when they lost last time.

What a win!

It's like being given censored pics of your wifes affair, and a doctors note with dick measurements of the guy she screwed.

That is the best simile I have read..... Thanks 

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14 minutes ago, WakaNZ said:

And as usual, the cowardly nzherald publish yet another unattributed hit piece. ETNZ should appeal Justice Palmers decision - he seems to have gone out on a limb with his reluctance to "second guess the Herald's bona fides in reporting in a fair and balanced manner on these proceedings. The Herald is clearly seeking to report on issues which appear to be of public interest and will no doubt coordinate with whoever assists in that".

It's a private dispute between 2 parties to a contract - no "public interest" consideration at all, or stuff.co.nz would have submitted an amicus supporting brief..

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13 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

So they get redacted documents, and the affadavit from when they lost last time.

What a win!

It's like being given censored pics of your wifes affair, and a doctors note with dick measurements of the guy she screwed.

The doc must be an ACAnarchist - did he use yellow lines when calculating the measurements?

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

And as usual, the cowardly nzherald publish yet another unattributed hit piece. ETNZ should appeal Justice Palmers decision - he seems to have gone out on a limb with his reluctance to "second guess the Herald's bona fides in reporting in a fair and balanced manner on these proceedings. The Herald is clearly seeking to report on issues which appear to be of public interest and will no doubt coordinate with whoever assists in that".

It's a private dispute between 2 parties to a contract - no "public interest" consideration at all, or stuff.co.nz would have submitted an amicus supporting brief..

Yeah - envy politics.  Why not trash the only remaining international sporting event NZ has left!

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Yeah - envy politics.  Why not trash the only remaining international sporting event NZ has left!

nzh are struggling to be still relevant, something they lost when Tony O'Reilly first bought them from the Hortons and brought in tabloid hacks from the NH...

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16 hours ago, darth reapius said:

I am very surprised to not see any comments about this...

Some about "unknown damage".

RIP Te Ahie. That's not mothballed, that's a complete write off.

That's complete internal structure failure.

400310273_TEAIHE-DAMAGE.thumb.jpg.90f714dd0f5b615ff929a8faf803b10b.jpg

That to me suggests that they might of hit something when they put it in the water a week or so ago...

 

 

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11 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

That to me suggests that they might of hit something when they put it in the water a week or so ago...

LR spy mini-sub?40622167_LRMini_Sub.jpg.c0387ffe116c0fa812a6c412ff8ca680.jpg

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

LR spy mini-sub?40622167_LRMini_Sub.jpg.c0387ffe116c0fa812a6c412ff8ca680.jpg

That hull features the ineos speed holes too! I smell a conspiracy!

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20 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

There's nothing to say Te Aihe isn't going back to the shed...

Hard to believe she launched over one year ago. Goodnight old girl. Rest in peace.

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BTW, I recently heard a rumour that ETNZ have something quite special up their sleeves with B2. Who knows whether it’s right or not but it might explain a late launch. 

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I am going to speculate that it is the "Boom and Head of the twin skill" that is the big change?

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55 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

BTW, I recently heard a rumour that ETNZ have something quite special up their sleeves with B2. Who knows whether it’s right or not but it might explain a late launch. 

Blue bucket, Mk2. Fuck, I hope not. ;-)

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58 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

BTW, I recently heard a rumour that ETNZ have something quite special up their sleeves with B2. Who knows whether it’s right or not but it might explain a late launch. 

Given LR's boat which to some extent makes me wonder 'why bother', I do wonder if ETNZ have got something really risky on the cards.

Even if it doesn't pan out, it seems their B1 is still pretty close to where the others B2s have arrived at.

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16 hours ago, Priscilla said:


Reflections.35F41E93-8708-44D2-B6EA-705914D1A194.thumb.jpeg.f1252328f031332e8f5ebd151f344357.jpeg

Where are those damn seagulls when we need them.

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Sorry, I hadn't been paying attention to the chaos in this thread, I'll wander past tomorrow and re-take the photo in different light to see if that gives more insight. But here's another angle I took today, which isn't going to help clarify arguments either way873601119_P1150335(2).thumb.JPG.640ed27ac82871398c4fb23e52cf44fc.JPG:

 

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23 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Sorry, I hadn't been paying attention to the chaos in this thread, I'll wander past tomorrow and re-take the photo in different light to see if that gives more insight. But here's another angle I took today, which isn't going to help clarify arguments either way873601119_P1150335(2).thumb.JPG.640ed27ac82871398c4fb23e52cf44fc.JPG:

 

If anyone thinks there’s damage to the boat in this pic they need to go to Spec savers. You’re seeing something you want to see. Something that just isn’t there.

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12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

If anyone thinks there’s damage to the boat in this pic they need to go to Spec savers. You’re seeing something you want to see. Something that just isn’t there.

What is far more likely we’re looking at a boat that has equipment removed to use on the new boat. I can’t see any damage in any form. I don’t think ETNZ is awash with cash and can afford to keep two fully equipped boats 

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4 minutes ago, mako23 said:

What is far more likely we’re looking at a boat that has equipment removed to use on the new boat. I can’t see any damage in any form. I don’t think ETNZ is awash with cash and can afford to keep two fully equipped boats 

Well only until you need it and that would be determined by where they think they are in relation to the performance of other teams.

Who's not to say B1 will be changed 12.5% and leap frog B2.  If required.  Unless B2 is substantially different which it may not be.

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9 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Who's not to say B1 will be changed 12.5% and leap frog B2.  If required.  Unless B2 is substantially different which it may not be.

Anything is possible and a change to B1 is possible. This is going to be very expensive exercise. Fitting these boats out is not cheap. Complicated internal mechanisms to lift and drop swing arm. Expensive mast etc plus a host of other controls. If your going to keep two boats running you need two good crews. The bills will really start running up. Easier to use a simulator to practice racing 

 

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19 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Some historical comparison photos from 14th September:
497906208_2020September14-2.thumb.JPG.be0055e397ed0cc2eab19bf6a36ae697.JPG

This picture shows an interesting reflection pattern above the foil arm, something is being distorted into a hard curve by the bulge around foil connection this looks very similar to the effect highlighted as "damage" and as this picture is pre nosedive, I think it shows that Te Aihe is much more likely not to have suffered significant external damage.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

What there's no damage?

That's right, conclusively.

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Agreed, it was a wild goose chase. But it seems odd that the boat has been put out to pasture already and straight after an apparently big crash which was acknowledged as causing damage.. Perhaps they'll two boat test against the liitle one.

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41 minutes ago, Ncik said:

Agreed, it was a wild goose chase. But it seems odd that the boat has been put out to pasture already and straight after an apparently big crash which was acknowledged as causing damage.. Perhaps they'll two boat test against the liitle one.

They may just be using pieces from B1 on B2, all the other teams have gone this route. 

I would imagine ETNZ want to get some testing and performance numbers in B2 first, then retrofit B1 to as close as the new configuration as possible prior to any two boat testing.  I seem to remember them doing something similar is previous events in the way back when.

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What I can’t figure out is why the boat is out on the dock. We know there was enough room in the shed for hawk and B1, and if we believe what we have been told then we know B2 is there.

Perhaps they need the room to put the components from B1 on the ground to transfer to B2? Or is hawk going to make a comeback?

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2 minutes ago, Tommy22 said:

What I can’t figure out is why the boat is out on the dock. We know there was enough room in the shed for hawk and B1, and if we believe what we have been told then we know B2 is there.

Perhaps they need the room to put the components from B1 on the ground to transfer to B2? Or is hawk going to make a comeback?

I can't speak for how much space they have in the shed, but my guess is that B2 is hanging in the shed and B1 was on the travellift. They had to get B1 off the travellift so it can be modified with new cradles for B2 (this is currently underway on the dock - old cradles are off and welding in progress). I'd guess the simplest option was to put B1 back on her shipping cradle that was used for her OE.

And no I couldn't get a view of B2's cradles yet, I was looking this afternoon :-)

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1 minute ago, mikenz2 said:

I can't speak for how much space they have in the shed, but my guess is that B2 is hanging in the shed and B1 was on the travellift. They had to get B1 off the travellift so it can be modified with new cradles for B2 (this is currently underway on the dock - old cradles are off and welding in progress). I'd guess the simplest option was to put B1 back on her shipping cradle that was used for her OE.

And no I couldn't get a view of B2's cradles yet, I was looking this afternoon :-)

That make sense, maybe a sign it’s a bit different to B1?

 

And I guess being outside in the weather for a few days shouldn’t be an issue - you would hope it’s water proof.

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Shouldn’t all of this NZ B1 talked be moved over to the “Retired AC Boats - Where Are They Now” thread?

just having fun with you guys.... I do not think B1 will touch the water again during this AC.   Of course, I made that prediction earlier, but eventually I will be right...lol

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15 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Shouldn’t all of this NZ B1 talked be moved over to the “Retired AC Boats - Where Are They Now” thread?

just having fun with you guys.... I do not think B1 will touch the water again during this AC.   Of course, I made that prediction earlier, but eventually I will be right...lol

Agreed. My guess is they would have preferred to continue sailing Te Aihe until much closer to B2’s launch and not lose maybe 2 weeks of sailing, but some combination of needing to scavenge some of TA’s parts and the accident means she stopped sailing a little earlier than had been planned. 
 

It’s hard to imagine anything happening catastrophic enough that any team would need to revert to B1 but LR did say they will keep theirs sailable, presumably for in the eventuality that B2 ever needs significant shed-time; maybe for testing new kit too. 

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20 hours ago, Indio said:

nzh are struggling to be still relevant, something they lost when Tony O'Reilly first bought them from the Hortons and brought in tabloid hacks from the NH...

The share price isn't reflective of that...And also agree with a loss in talent. I suspect they will get PJ in for a cameo appearance and use Mark Orams as the anchor. 

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9 hours ago, Tommy22 said:

What I can’t figure out is why the boat is out on the dock. We know there was enough room in the shed for hawk and B1, and if we believe what we have been told then we know B2 is there.

Perhaps they need the room to put the components from B1 on the ground to transfer to B2? Or is hawk going to make a comeback?

After seeing what AM1 did to Hawk, I doubt she'll be back. It's a shame because she was a feisty little puppy!

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25 minutes ago, WakaNZ said:

The share price isn't reflective of that...And also agree with a loss in talent. I suspect they will get PJ in for a cameo appearance and use Mark Orams as the anchor. 

There's an acute absence of credible knowledgeable commentators on our so-called media. What's happened to Dana Johanssen? She was better than nothing. Peter Lester? Orams is the only one around at the moment.

I wonder who they'll have on the live commentary team when the action starts. Freddie Carr was great value in BDA - hope they grab him when Brittania is knocked out - Shirley Robertson wasn't too hard on the ears either. Maybe they'll have Paul Cayard LOL!

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Ken Read was excellent value, along with some of the AC sailor guests who contributed, in both SF and BDA. 

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43 minutes ago, Indio said:

There's an acute absence of credible knowledgeable commentators on our so-called media. What's happened to Dana Johanssen? She was better than nothing. Peter Lester? Orams is the only one around at the moment.

I wonder who they'll have on the live commentary team when the action starts. Freddie Carr was great value in BDA - hope they grab him when Brittania is knocked out - Shirley Robertson wasn't too hard on the ears either. Maybe they'll have Paul Cayard LOL!

I see Peter Lester around the neighbourhood quite a bit - given the frequency he must be a reasonably close neighbour. No doubt he'll make an appearance for TVNZ once the coverage of the races gets underway. I'm pretty sure he was scheduled to do the world series in UK and IT - and like so many others COVID has meant he's been stuck at home, and stuck on home shores until the Christmas Cup.

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26 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

I see Peter Lester around the neighbourhood quite a bit - given the frequency he must be a reasonably close neighbour.

About a year ago I asked him some direct questions about his future AC media involvement.  He said yes he would be involved.  Didn't elaborate much.  But I also asked would it be free to air and he said yes and backed that up by quoting Dalton who said that there was no question that as long as he was involved it would be free to air.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Ken Read was excellent value, along with some of the AC sailor guests who contributed, in both SF and BDA. 

My preference is definitely for competitors as commentators, it was awesome having people who actually knew what was going on, giving technical explanations and not bothering to try and to dumb it down for none sailors. 

We don't need layline and windward explained fourteen thousand times during every race!  These are things interested people should learn themselves or perhaps be explained as filler when we are waiting for the wind to build or during other delays, nobody bothers to explain offsides or thrown ins during a soccer match.

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

There's an acute absence of credible knowledgeable commentators on our so-called media. What's happened to Dana Johanssen? She was better than nothing. Peter Lester? Orams is the only one around at the moment.

I wonder who they'll have on the live commentary team when the action starts. Freddie Carr was great value in BDA - hope they grab him when Brittania is knocked out - Shirley Robertson wasn't too hard on the ears either. Maybe they'll have Paul Cayard LOL!

I wouldn't use Dana Johanssen and knowledgeable in the same sentence.

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38 minutes ago, Boybland said:

We don't need layline and windward explained fourteen thousand times during every race! 

Perhaps not as many times as you say.  However it is important to engage the novice spectator and even the novice sailor with some basics.  Those of us that are more experienced tend to watch rather than listen.  Although in saying that there are a lot of self-proclaimed "expert" sailors that can do with the AC refresher courses on the rules of racing!

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

About a year ago I asked him some direct questions about his future AC media involvement.  He said yes he would be involved.  Didn't elaborate much.  But I also asked would it be free to air and he said yes and backed that up by quoting Dalton who said that there was no question that as long as he was involved it would be free to air.

That leaves Sky News to concentrate on telling New Zealand how a million or so voters got it wrong at the last election by re-electing the red shirts instead of the blue shirts...

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25 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Nathan would be good.

And Percy...what's he doing?

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9 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

I wouldn't use Dana Johanssen and knowledgeable in the same sentence.

I didn't. And I qualified her inclusion with "better than nothing".

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12 minutes ago, Indio said:

I didn't. And I qualified her inclusion with "better than nothing".

Sometimes nothing is better than shit...

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16 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Sometimes nothing is better than shit...

Dana does have the nose for sniffing out stuff...speaking of which, I last read a piece from her on stuff.co.nz so she's probably freelancing.

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4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

About a year ago I asked him some direct questions about his future AC media involvement.  He said yes he would be involved.  Didn't elaborate much.  But I also asked would it be free to air and he said yes and backed that up by quoting Dalton who said that there was no question that as long as he was involved it would be free to air.

Ran across Lester at a thing at the Squadron two or three months ago. He was very enthusiastic about the advanced features of the broadcast centre. Didn't get into specifics of his involvement but looks as if we'll see him on TV NZ coverage.

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4 hours ago, Boybland said:
5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Ken Read was excellent value, along with some of the AC sailor guests who contributed, in both SF and BDA. 

My preference is definitely for competitors as commentators, it was awesome having people who actually knew what was going on, giving technical explanations and not bothering to try and to dumb it down for none sailors. 

We don't need layline and windward explained fourteen thousand times during every race!  These are things interested people should learn themselves or perhaps be explained as filler when we are waiting for the wind to build or during other delays, nobody bothers to explain offsides or thrown ins during a soccer match.

When it comes to TV commentary, one plus of an AC match is that attracts the pros in the field.  Recently eliminated skippers or tacticians and past AC greats. We can look forward to some lovely insights and predictions about the race we're watching. And there are the war stories from past contests.

Ken Read has his hands full running the North empire but business will bring him here for sure. And his calm, wry style makes for great TV viewing.

What we don't see, even in person, was brought home to me back in Newport Cup days.  Sharing the rail on the media boat with Gary Jobson and a bunch of clued-up boating writers  and watching two Twelves still far apart on the weather leg, he was the only one of us to consistently call which one would cross ahead.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

19th of November.  Mark it in the diary.

Such a looong way away. 

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Where does 18th come from? I wonder why the delay- can’t copy anything now can they?

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

19th of November.  Mark it in the diary.

See you at the event...Remember, B1 was wheeled out of the shed the evening prior 

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34 minutes ago, WakaNZ said:

See you at the event...Remember, B1 was wheeled out of the shed the evening prior 

Except B1 was launched in the morning.  This is an evening event.  I know where I'll be having my morning coffee that day.

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The 19th of November. That gives them less than a month before the first event on December 17th. Assuming the boat is launched in a ready to race, or at least ready to sail state in November, 4 weeks isn’t much time to work the boat up and have her race ready. If the boat is launched in an underprepared state, and requires another week in the shed after launch then that will mean about 3 weeks before racing. An unenviable position. 

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Where does the 19th come from??

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10 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 4 weeks isn’t much time to work the boat up and have her race ready.

Looking at Amway scything up the harbour showing a cracking turn of speed today after what a few outings 4 weeks on crikey after launching TNZ will be sweet as.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

An unenviable position. 

I guess it depends how fast you think your boat is.


Over confidence perhaps?

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28 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The 19th of November. That gives them less than a month before the first event on December 17th. Assuming the boat is launched in a ready to race, or at least ready to sail state in November, 4 weeks isn’t much time to work the boat up and have her race ready. If the boat is launched in an underprepared state, and requires another week in the shed after launch then that will mean about 3 weeks before racing. An unenviable position. 

Crikey Clarkey you sound like you’re cracking up Lord GD manoeuvring TNZ into less than enviable position.

 

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