Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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I think they'll launch B2 before the 19 Nov. One reason not to, would be if they've got some really radical foils - which could potentially be copied and fabricated before the Cup match. Another reason might be to see the Challenger fleets race foils, then equip their boat accordingly - from their arsenal..  Challenger hulls are obviously locked in. Sail programs most likely locked in as well, as would be control systems. LR, Ineos and the defender have all used 4 foils - so only 2 left each. Not sure about AM, as Patriots foils could be the set off Defiant, so they might be only on 2, having 4 left.

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23 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

GD and the ETNZ team can walk on water, so no boat required

Given that the UK has this vast maritime history, with much celebrated and iconic victories on the sea, not to mention more ocean miles under sail then probably any other nation on earth. That they've been so humbled in this particular contest, by such a tiny, insignificant nation, could suggest a degree of divine intervention? How else would you explain the disparity, when considering each nations maritime history?

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Given such an epic achievement in humbling a sea fairing nation such as the UK (ignoring that the USA had held it for how long?)   how do you explain getting fucked by nation with no coast line?

oh that's right wussel is a turn coat etc...^_^

 

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33 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

how do you explain getting fucked by nation with no coast line?

We all know what happened there. Still, what's your explanation for the UK's long history of failure in the Cup?

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

We all know what happened there. Still, what's your explanation for the UK's long history of failure in the Cup?

Easy, its never really been a big thing here. Look at how many times we never even got a team up at all

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

We all know what happened there. Still, what's your explanation for the UK's long history of failure in the Cup?

It's traditional. Britain has a long and illustrious history of inventing sports and then not being very good at them. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

I think they'll launch B2 before the 19 Nov. One reason not to, would be if they've got some really radical foils - which could potentially be copied and fabricated before the Cup match. Another reason might be to see the Challenger fleets race foils, then equip their boat accordingly - from their arsenal..  Challenger hulls are obviously locked in. Sail programs most likely locked in as well, as would be control systems. LR, Ineos and the defender have all used 4 foils - so only 2 left each. Not sure about AM, as Patriots foils could be the set off Defiant, so they might be only on 2, having 4 left.

Having really radical foils doesn't stop them launching and shaking down the boat with old foils

And we have no idea how many foils any team has used, because we don't know how many have been within the 20% rule (or whether the LR and GB PR foils will be sailed)

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7 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

We all know what happened there. Still, what's your explanation for the UK's long history of failure in the Cup?

I Wasn't one trying to score points chum. 
pride comes before a fall and all that. 

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36 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

We all know what happened there. Still, what's your explanation for the UK's long history of failure in the Cup?

There have been long periods were the UK haven’t challenged for the Cup. In the early days they did challenge a lot, also in that time period the rules were not entirely fair. Other periods such as WW1 and WW2  the British were fighting to save the West and keep freedoms you enjoy such as molesting sheep. Maybe they should of let’s the Japs invade NZ and AUS who would of raped your Forebears. So to be fair to the British give them some slack for not be totally involved in the America’s Cup.  It was the British and Indian Army who fought a very large Japanese Army hell bent in moving west. Maybe they should of said fuck it, we will go and sail race boats. By the way help yourself to our southern colonies. By the way that Japanese Army the Brits faced would of crushed AUS

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41 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

I Wasn't one trying to score points chum. 
pride comes before a fall and all that. 

I'm not trying to score any points, however Mr Enigma has on more than one occasion seen fit to engage in niggle towards NZ. I'm just happy to return the favour.

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29 minutes ago, mako23 said:

By the way that Japanese Army the Brits faced would of crushed AUS

Yeah, not sure where you studied history, but the Brits handed over Singapore with nary a shot fired. The Royal navy had a debacle with the Prince of Wales and Repulse giving the Japs target practice. It was the Yanks that saved out arses.

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I'm not trying to score any points, however Mr Enigma has on more than one occasion seen fit to engage in niggle towards NZ. I'm just happy to return the favour.

I think if you look back you will find you are wrong. I have never criticised team NZ, I do however find the unbounded belief in ETNZ by some of their fans on here amusing and occasionally poke a little fun at that. And even such gentle poking always seems to invoke a reaction. Whereas NZ supporters are of the belief that they can bring up criticisms of other teams and countries quite freely irrespective of how ancient or irrelevant the insults are.

Thus for example Ben is often criticised for hitting the dock years ago, but every time NZ capsize or crash it is just pushing the limits and quite deliberate

NZ fans often refer to GB as Frackers, or criticise AM as having a European sponsor, but get upset when people have referred to NZ as an Emarites team etc

There are many more. So how about cutting the hypocrisy. If you can't take a gentle joke then stop repeating the same, tired and worn insults to other teams.

 

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16 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Yeah, not sure where you studied history, but the Brits handed over Singapore with nary a shot fired. The Royal navy had a debacle with the Prince of Wales and Repulse giving the Japs target practice. It was the Yanks that saved out arses.

Eh?  I thought General Douglas McAthur was American but smoked British colonial tobacco?

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55 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I do however find the unbounded belief in ETNZ by some of their fans on here amusing and occasionally poke a little fun at that.

Poke a little fun? On multiple occasions you've labelled us hypocrites, amongst other digs. Expect a little push back on that. NZ's record of achievement is a source of pride for NZers. I make no apologies for that. 

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Poke a little fun? On multiple occasions you've labelled us hypocrites, amongst other digs. Expect a little push back on that. NZ's record of achievement is a source of pride for NZers. I make no apologies for that. 

And it should be a source of pride. But this assumption from some that a feature on the NZ boat is naturally better because it is on the NZ boat, or that th NZ team are above reproach whereas no-one else is, that is hypocrisy and thats what I poke fun at. 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

I'm not trying to score any points, however Mr Enigma has on more than one occasion seen fit to engage in niggle towards NZ. I'm just happy to return the favour.

Or if you like, I am merely returning the favour for every mention of Frackers, Ben hitting the dock, Ben being arrogant, GB1 being ugly etc.

I can assure you I would have to post a hell of lot more niggles before balance has been achieved. Which I have no intention of doing. But until such balance has been achieved, you whingeing is hypocritical.

OK?

Now lets get back to the sailing (or absence thereof in the case of both our teams at present)

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24 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I can assure you I would have to post a hell of lot more niggles before balance has been achieved.

More shit talk from an Ineos fan? Yeah okay...because you have all the bragging rights don't you? Ben's third or 4th place in Bermuda has to be the best British result in at least 50 years, so you've got a right to feel pretty cocky.......It all makes sense now......

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

More shit talk from an Ineos fan? Yeah okay...because you have all the bragging rights don't you? Ben's third or 4th place in Bermuda has to be the best British result in at least 50 years, so you've got a right to feel pretty cocky.......It all makes sense now......

Exactly my point. Where did I say I was confident? Where have I said that the NZ team were shit? Nope, never have. I have great admiration for what NZ have achieved and they are favourites for this event. The main thing that lets them down is that sort of bullshit from their fans.Just because its on the NZ boat it doesn't mean its perfect. NZ do sometimes make mistakes. So why get so bolshy just because someone says that NZ may not be perfect?

And yes, I hope that GB beats them, but if they do I won't crow about their success or assume that will win again next time as you and others (not all NZ supporters) seem determined to do. Just like I don't assume we will win the next Cricket world cup, or beat the ABs next time we play or lots of other stuff.

Nor, win or lose, will I complain about the holders using the DoG to their advantage several years later. 

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20 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

The main thing that lets them down is that sort of bullshit from their fans. Just because its on the NZ boat it doesn't mean its perfect. NZ do sometimes make mistakes. So why get so bolshy just because someone says that NZ may not be perfect?

I don't see Kiwi fans saying everything's perfect from NZ - certainly not from me - despite them being the benchmark team..... We run our critical eye on all the details of all the boats - that's what we do in here. NZ/AM have been seen the most, and have thus received most of the attention. Ben's first boat was widely ridiculed - not just from Kiwis. I think your justification for calling us hypocrites is thin, and is based more around the numbers of us in here.

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Making out that Britains naval history as a big seafaring nation  and all that bollocks somehow has relevance to a design competition funded by often foreign billionaires or  overseas syndicates and sponsors,  shacked up at the yacht club of nearest convenience is what comes across as trying to score points without understanding how irrelevant your argument is.

it’s that shit talking, when no one was talking about GB but you thought fuck it lets  have a dig, is what makes people form negative opinions about some of the kiwi fans. 
 

NZ the benchmark? No,  the current holder of a cup contested in a now defunct class

until there is actual Racing there isn’t a bench to be marked 

as for running out critical eye? Pff, this place is a lot of people taking uneducated Shite about something none of us have any experience of with a hope that “our” team wins and retrospectively lends credibility to our ramblings. And I include everyone of us in that. 

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8 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Making out that Britains naval history as a big seafaring nation

Funny you should say that, because those are the exact words Bob Fisher used when writing in Sea Horse, describing NZ's first win in 95 and bemoaning Britains lack of an entry. Words I remember, and I'm happy to quote back at yah. So if you don't like them, take it up with Bob.

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as you are here and repeating them to prove some snippy point that shock horror GB hasn't won the cup before maybe you could shed light on its relevance? 

if you are going to use it to make a point then it usually helps to know now it is relevant? so how is it?

 

as you yourself say Bob said it in reference to a lack of a GB entry in 95.  YOU stated as a pisstake as to GB not winning yet. which one is it?

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6 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Funny you should say that, because those are the exact words Bob Fisher used when writing in Sea Horse, describing NZ's first win in 95 and bemoaning Britains lack of an entry. Words I remember, and I'm happy to quote back at yah. So if you don't like them, take it up with Bob.

No offence but the only thing I would take seriously from Bob Fisher regarding sailing would be a recommendation as to where to eat or drink after a race. 

And possibly how hard the rocks are off Bembridge

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

if you are going to use it to make a point then it usually helps to know now it is relevant? so how is it?

The point is my dear boy, that for a nation with such a long and storied history in sailing, to have such a sorry history in the Cup is quite notable. Britain has under performed, you haven't managed to get your shit together, despite having the depth of resources in almost all the areas required. NZ has shown you up - repeatedly. This was the point Bob was making in 95, and that is still valid today. 

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8 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

No offence but the only thing I would take seriously from Bob Fisher regarding sailing would be a recommendation as to where to eat or drink after a race. 

Feature writer for the official magazine of the RORC. I'm sure your credentials easily surpass his, how could I be so churlish.....

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40 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I don't see Kiwi fans saying everything's perfect from NZ - certainly not from me - despite them being the benchmark team..... We run our critical eye on all the details of all the boats - that's what we do in here. NZ/AM have been seen the most, and have thus received most of the attention. Ben's first boat was widely ridiculed - not just from Kiwis. I think your justification for calling us hypocrites is thin, and is based more around the numbers of us in here.

Now come on Horn.   You know very well of all the NZ fanboys.  Enig is just pointing out the obvious that many have stated repeatedly.  All of the teams have growing pains and are learning how to sail this strange boat, good and bad times.  It just gets very annoying when the NZ fanboys brag about how advanced they are, how every hiccup was intentional, etc and then ignore it like it never happened when it is proven wrong.  

It is a great exchange of AC fans from around the world, just expect some to be more honest about it. 

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@Horn Rockaww shucks if only that was what you had originally said, its not but hey 

now tell me how successful NZ would have been with none of the overseas funding? I am betting a budget shortfall so fucking big you wouldn't have made it to the dock, never mind start line.

the reason NZ go overseas for funding is that at its heart the AC is a billionaires pissing contest that pays no heed or respect to a nations maritime history, so for that same reason the jolly old UK is a tough place to get funding, we just didn't go cap in hand and offer naming rights to the highest overseas bidder.

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13 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

The point is my dear boy, that for a nation with such a long and storied history in sailing, to have such a sorry history in the Cup is quite notable. Britain has under performed, you haven't managed to get your shit together, despite having the depth of resources in almost all the areas required. NZ has shown you up - repeatedly. This was the point Bob was making in 95, and that is still valid today. 

It is all about interest.  The US has a storied history in the automobile, but it is nothing in the world of F1 racing.

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18 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

now tell me how successful NZ would have been with none of the overseas funding?

Somewhat an expansion of the talking points, but I'm game. Without OS money we wouldn't have done what we've done - post 2000 anyway. I don't see how that diminishes NZ's AC endeavours. 

18 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

so for that same reason the jolly old UK is a tough place to get funding, we just didn't go cap in hand and offer naming rights to the highest overseas bidder.

Far be it for me to point out the obvious, but that statement kinda answers itself.

 

Edit - with to without

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6 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is all about interest.  The US has a storied history in the automobile, but it is nothing in the world of F1 racing.

True, but I believe there is interest in the UK. It does require effort to bring it all together, and kudos to Ben for building a well funded team. One that is not lacking in resources.

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20 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

The point is my dear boy, that for a nation with such a long and storied history in sailing, to have such a sorry history in the Cup is quite notable. Britain has under performed, you haven't managed to get your shit together, despite having the depth of resources in almost all the areas required. NZ has shown you up - repeatedly. This was the point Bob was making in 95, and that is still valid today. 

I don't know why you think that nation has such a long history in sailing.  When they finally arrived in the Pacific they found people of Taiwan descent, who had beaten their arrival by about 2,000 years and witnessed a large proa carrying a cargo to a destination 1,600 miles away in four days.

The Polynesians found every island in the Pacific by at least a 1,000 years ago, some 500 years before the Europeans had found one.

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6 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

I don't know why you think that nation has such a long history in sailing.  When they finally arrived in the Pacific they found people of Taiwan descent, who had beaten their arrival by about 2,000 years and witnessed a large proa carrying a cargo to a destination 1,600 miles away in four days.

The Polynesians found every island in the Pacific by at least a 1,000 years ago, some 500 years before the Europeans had found one.

You bring a new and valid perspective to the argument Terry.

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

AC37 should be in foiling Proas......Navigation by the stars only......

I'm not sure its right for the AC, but sign me up for that. Sounds a lot of fun - not a million miles from some of my past racing 2000 miles round Britain in a ULDB, a bucket doubling for loo and nav seat, no part of the boat dry and all the nav aids failing so reliant on compasses and eyeball.

Irrespective of who wins though, can we hold it somewhere warm please

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5 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Yeah, not sure where you studied history, but the Brits handed over Singapore with nary a shot fired. The Royal navy had a debacle with the Prince of Wales and Repulse giving the Japs target practice. It was the Yanks that saved out arses.

Singapore and the battle for Burma are different battles. The Burma campaign dwarfs what happens in Singapore. The Indian and British Army was over a million man strong in Burma. Secondly more Japanese died fighting the Chinese in China than fighting the Yanks. This particular campaign resulted in approx 20 million deaths. Estimate of Japanese deaths is between 0.7 and 1.7 million. Also the Japanese had to keep large number of troops in Korea facing Russian divisions. Yes America did well in WW2 agains the Japs but way over half Japanese forces were stationed and fighting in China and surrounding areas. If America fought Japan on its own, things would of been a LOT harder. To say that the USA saved AUS alone is insulting to the 20 million dead in China who fought and died fighting the BULK of the Japanese Army. Your cheap shot about Singapore is also insulting to the British and Indian armies who fought in Burma and ultimately won. 
 

also the Australian in Singapore also surrendered without “firing a shot” and 14972 went into captivity.  So your cheap shot about British Bravery also applies to the Australians. 
 

also fighting did occur in Singapore, it was the cowardly behaviour of the Australian 18 divisions who lost their sector to a lot smaller Japanese Army help caused the premature capitulation of Singapore. The lack of Australian backbone played an enormous part in the defeat in Singapore. 
 

Did you study history at all

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

And it should be a source of pride. But this assumption from some that a feature on the NZ boat is naturally better because it is on the NZ boat, or that th NZ team are above reproach whereas no-one else is, that is hypocrisy and thats what I poke fun at. 

Thats crap. At no point have we ever said that. But there is nothing REAL that says that NZ has done anything in breach of any rules, or hypocritical thus far that people with the opposite view can question themselves, without also being hypocritical.

It seems people calling Kiwi fans hypocrites is like the pot calling the kettle black.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Thats crap. At no point have we ever said that. But there is nothing REAL that says that NZ has done anything in breach of any rules, or hypocritical thus far that people with the opposite view can question themselves, without also being hypocritical.

It seems people calling Kiwi fans hypocrites is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Tell you what, find one place where I personally (i.e. not someone else)  have said that NZ has broken the rules and I will find 5 where you personally have been a biased fanbot.

Fair trade?

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On 10/9/2020 at 11:02 AM, mikenz2 said:

Some haul out photos from Wednesday:
image.png.c4021d7b77fce19bab3d6bfa1c138069.png

Hey Mike, would you have a pic of this foil from front on?  I know I've seen a good clear shot like that but I can't find it!    (playing around with some vector graphics, comparing foils)

And perhaps one at ~90 degrees from side on as well?

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20 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Thats crap. At no point have we ever said that. But there is nothing REAL that says that NZ has done anything in breach of any rules, or hypocritical thus far that people with the opposite view can question themselves, without also being hypocritical.

It seems people calling Kiwi fans hypocrites is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Wether the poster is a hypocrite or not has zero bearing on a team breaking a rule,

so gather your pots and kettles as it doesn’t make a jot of difference, if a team is guilty of cheating, it doesn’t absolve them if someone else had cheated before. 

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33 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Hey Mike, would you have a pic of this foil from front on?  I know I've seen a good clear shot like that but I can't find it!    (playing around with some vector graphics, comparing foils)

And perhaps one at ~90 degrees from side on as well?

Unfortunately I don't have the side on view, it's always on the far side when they haul out so is obscured by the port foil.
 

P1130511.JPG

P1120700.JPG

P1120713.JPG

P1120714.JPG

P1120724.JPG

P1120739.JPG

P1130484.JPG

P1130486.JPG

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

I don't know why you think that nation has such a long history in sailing.  When they finally arrived in the Pacific they found people of Taiwan descent, who had beaten their arrival by about 2,000 years and witnessed a large proa carrying a cargo to a destination 1,600 miles away in four days.

The Polynesians found every island in the Pacific by at least a 1,000 years ago, some 500 years before the Europeans had found one.

 

2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

AC37 should be in foiling Proas......Navigation by the stars only......

 

Fibre sail carbon hull and rig deck spreaders aft foils crew trenches...
72B6258F-F76C-4315-A24B-0A9BEE4DDC2D.thumb.jpeg.79cfea384287a072f4a6147a608c9004.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Unfortunately I don't have the side on view, it's always on the far side when they haul out so is obscured by the port foil.

Thanks Mike, the front on view is perfect!

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after the cunts at CVC running the show and selling to Liberty media another bunch of cunts all it is now is a load of hedge fund pricks trying to squeeze as much profit from their new toy to keep the shareholders knee deep in Stetsons and hookers.

money grabbing cunts, all of them.

 

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Tell you what, find one place where I personally (i.e. not someone else)  have said that NZ has broken the rules and I will find 5 where you personally have been a biased fanbot.

Fair trade?

I can find you 5 times where I’ve already said I’m biased. Who cares? That’s how passionate we Kiwis are about our sports teams. British football fans are biased, British rugby fans, and cricket fans are biased, Aussie cricket fans and league fans are biased, NZ rugby fans, cricket fans, sailing fans, league fans, pretty much all NZ sports fans are biased. Yet here are AC fans “Oh I’m completely impartial I’m neutral... I’m here for the tech” boring...

let’s be honest. You either want ETNZ to win, or you want another team to win. Either way, no one is neutral on here.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Wether the poster is a hypocrite or not has zero bearing on a team breaking a rule,

so gather your pots and kettles as it doesn’t make a jot of difference, if a team is guilty of cheating, it doesn’t absolve them if someone else had cheated before. 

And when you find an example of ETNZ cheating, actual factual evidence, I’ll be the first to call them out. Until then, it’s just the haters trying to find something to bitch about.

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Anyone know what TE is referring to with the Arb ruling not related to S and S on his Facebook?

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If the poms are keen to win a cup they are probably missing one key ingredient a convict from Aus . Every winning team that has taken the cup in recent history has at least one key Aussie player . 

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50 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

And when you find an example of ETNZ cheating, actual factual evidence, I’ll be the first to call them out. Until then, it’s just the haters trying to find something to bitch about.

Kindly find an example of me saying they had cheated.. 

I didn’t and hadn’t in fact no one was saying they had in the recent convo, the only mention of the C word was from you 

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55 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

let’s be honest. You either want ETNZ to win, or you are wrong Either way, no one is neutral on here.

Fixed it for you;-) 

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8 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

If the poms are keen to win a cup they are probably missing one key ingredient a convict from Aus . Every winning team that has taken the cup in recent history has at least one key Aussie player . 

Grant Simmer

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19 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Kindly find an example of me saying they had cheated.. 

I didn’t and hadn’t in fact no one was saying they had in the recent convo, the only mention of the C word was from you 

I didn’t say you did. I’m merely responding to your comment in which you said “if a team is caught cheating, it doesn’t absolve them if someone else has cheated before”. Given all the discussion regarding how “unfair” the Kiwis have allegedly been this far. Your comment is clear as to the implications.

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Drop the act, it was an entirely open statement, the poor me act is dull 

if you can’t tell the difference between people saying stuff is unfair ( yup life is..) and cheating than you are stupid enough to believe that no one has realised you are SClarke in a sock. 

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Ok, and they suck.  F1 racing is also owned by a Liberty Media which is a US company.  The Americans have very seldom been a factor in F1 racing.

USA  equity firm  also own the Williams team. They might not be a winning factor,  but US involvement in F1 is not trivial. 

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42 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Drop the act, it was an entirely open statement, the poor me act is dull 

if you can’t tell the difference between people saying stuff is unfair ( yup life is..) and cheating than you are stupid enough to believe that no one has realised you are SClarke in a sock. 

Then why even mention it? You said it, not Me. It was a statement that clearly had an intention otherwise you wouldn’t have said it. So maybe it’s time you dropped the act and also quit acting like some angry boomer every time you get called out! Either that or deal with your fucking anger issues!

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6 minutes ago, I ride bikes said:

Why?! Watching them from Noth Head is the best thing.  

Maybe the Davenport lobby got to them.

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13 minutes ago, jczsierra said:

 

7436A0EA-FD63-4C33-9E2A-528C324D5AB7.jpeg

Interesting... Wasn't it also LLPI who wanted the lower wind limits? Would those two courses be considered higher breeze compared to the others? 

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3 minutes ago, atwinda said:

Interesting... Wasn't it also LLPI who wanted the lower wind limits? Would those two courses be considered higher breeze compared to the others? 

Here's the full Arb ruling..

ACAP36 12.pdf

 

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27 minutes ago, mako23 said:

USA  equity firm  also own the Williams team. They might not be a winning factor,  but US involvement in F1 is not trivial. 

It’s laughable,  

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21 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Then why even mention it? You said it, not Me. It was a statement that clearly had an intention otherwise you wouldn’t have said it. So maybe it’s time you dropped the act and also quit acting like some angry boomer every time you get called out! Either that or deal with your fucking anger issues!

I mentioned to make the point that being a hypocrite doesn’t stop or absolve a team of cheating.

you were taking offence at something absurd and calling people a hypocrite because some one at some time said something about cheating.

“yeah but your team did too”  is a shit Defense. 
 

you then tell me I accused your team of cheating? Bit odd.. 

night night sock 

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23 minutes ago, atwinda said:

Interesting... Wasn't it also LLPI who wanted the lower wind limits? Would those two courses be considered higher breeze compared to the others? 

That tweet by ETNZ accusing LR of destroying "city public viewing" is mischievous. If anyone's to blame, it's the POrts Authority and Harbourmaster.

Graham McKenzie's dissent makes perfect sense...

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Emirates Team New Zealand Outraged Over Arb Decision

no-course.jpg

Auckland, New Zealand - 22nd  October 2020

Emirates Team New Zealand are outraged that after three years of planning a land-based stadium event, the Challenger of Record Luna Rossa has led a campaign through the Arbitration Panel which has destroyed one of the most exciting benefits of the America’s Cup event for the people of Auckland and visitors from throughout New Zealand.

The America’s Cup Arbitration Panel have issued a ruling overnight that effectively cancels the use of the inner harbour stadium race courses for all racing of the Prada Cup and America’s Cup Match.

This decision has considerable and negative repercussions to the accessibility of the event for the public of Auckland and New Zealand, the safety of the event and the reliability of the racing. All of which are elements that have been fundamental to Emirates Team New Zealand since we won the America’s Cup in 2017.

The images with Auckland City as a backdrop during racing have always been a critical part of showcasing Auckland and New Zealand to the world in an event with a significant global audience, and another reason for the original race course designs.

“Quite frankly we are outraged by this decision, it has gone against everything we have been trying to achieve over the last three years, with no consideration to the effect this has on the public of New Zealand and the city of Auckland.” Said CEO Grant Dalton.

Emirates Team New Zealand are now considering if there are any options that are available to remedy this unbelievable decision.

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fighting to control a host of expletives describing the ( more expletives ) that have done this

i hope they lose the prada cup

i have always supported them almost as much as etnz .. now they will always be last for me

wot a bunch of ...

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28 minutes ago, Indio said:

That tweet by ETNZ accusing LR of destroying "city public viewing" is mischievous. If anyone's to blame, it's the POrts Authority and Harbourmaster.

Graham McKenzie's dissent makes perfect sense...

It seems the Auckland Harbourmaster has just nominated himself for most unliked New Zealander of the year.

Let's see if the Harbourmaster's view gets changed in the next few weeks. Dalton's political reach may be further than you think...

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4 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

It seems the Auckland Harbourmaster has just nominated himself for most unliked New Zealander of the year.

Let's see if the Harbourmaster's view gets changed in the next few weeks. Dalton's political reach may be further than you think...

Probly dalts wishes that email about the safety meeting never gone published.

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12 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

fighting to control a host of expletives describing the ( more expletives ) that have done this

i hope they lose the prada cup

i have always supported them almost as much as etnz .. now they will always be last for me

wot a bunch of ...

I don't believe it's fair to blame LR for initiating the complaint which resulted in this ruling. They were only acting as the CoR would be expected to, in looking after the interests of the Challengers.

The real culprit is the Ports Authority and Harbourmaster...1414481094_PortsAuthorityletter.thumb.JPG.e1ea13919c416fa5150a98c5240caeaa.JPG

 

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5 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

seems the Auckland Harbourmaster has just nominated himself for most unliked New Zealander of the year.

Are wankers tho

...ask how the harbour speed restriction got lifted for the Davenport run only.

Ask if the harbour bridge foundations are structures that the 5 knot 200 m rule applies to...

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44 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

I mentioned to make the point that being a hypocrite doesn’t stop or absolve a team of cheating.

you were taking offence at something absurd and calling people a hypocrite because some one at some time said something about cheating.

“yeah but your team did too”  is a shit Defense. 
 

you then tell me I accused your team of cheating? Bit odd.. 

night night sock 

Why would anyone need to be stopped or absolved of cheating if, as you say, no one has cheated?

There is absolutely no need to mention the word cheating if no one has done it, other than to get some kind of reaction. 
 

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Doesn't make any sense.  Although the two courses crossed out would be the hardest to manage and sail on.

The politics of envy, bureaucracy and hunker down will kill the only truly international event to be held in NZ for the next year or more.

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The real question is this: the letter from Ports of Auckland and Harbourmaster proposed the exclusion of Courses A and B "for consideration" at the stakeholders' meeting on 20th January, 2020. Presumably, they held their meeting and presumably accepted the exclusion of Courses A & B - and it looks like they've been trying to resolve it ever since because LR lodged their Arb application only on 19th September, 2020. This is supported by ETNZ's unsuccessful attempt to have the matter in mediation..

ETNZ appears to have dropped the ball in this dispute, with a rather blasé response to the Arb...

ETNZ on 1st October 2020, in which it submitted inter alia that (i) “There is no breach of Protocol by the Defender as alleged by COR36 as a result of the Hosts not confirming the availability of the Courses B and C within Course Area I during the early rounds only of the Prada Cup”, (ii) “There is no breach of the VMA by ACE, in particular Clause 2”, (iii) “there is no competitive advantage for the Defender who in fact is at a competitive disadvantage”.

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6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Why does it make perfect sense?  

Did you even bother to read it?!:angry:

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1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:

I agree regarding these two places being given the boot. They are often very shifty and wind variances can be frustrating.

I suppose that’s the crux of the matter. But:

- do I understand that the Harbormaster’s decision was made in January, and ETNZ kept mum with the Challengers? If true, this is sneakiness worthy of Oracle

- personally, I think it’s karma - if I (and the rest of the world) cannot watch in person, I’m not crying if a good portion of Kiwis are in the same situation

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3 minutes ago, Xlot said:

I suppose that’s the crux of the matter. But:

- do I understand that the Harbormaster’s decision was made in January, and ETNZ kept mum with the Challengers? If true, this is sneakiness worthy of Oracle

- personally, I think it’s karma - if I (and the rest of the world) cannot watch in person, I’m not crying if a good portion of Kiwis are in the same situation

The suspicion implied is that LR and the other Challengers did not want to be surprised by being required to race on either of the two courses in the Match, while the Defender would have been allowed to practice on them during the Prada Cup.

LR clearly want Courses A & B - part of the relief they seek is the support of the Defender in a united approach to the appropriate authorities to change the fucking Harbourmaster's mind.

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9 minutes ago, Indio said:

Did you even bother to read it?!:angry:

Ok put it another way - how does it make any sense (justification) to drop those two courses?

Its hardly the busiest port in the world!

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39 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

fighting to control a host of expletives describing the ( more expletives ) that have done this

i hope they lose the prada cup

i have always supported them almost as much as etnz .. now they will always be last for me

wot a bunch of ...

Take it up with Mr. Dalton. He sold his soul to the Italians to win in Bermuda. He is now enjoying all the fun of a notoriously bitchy team as COR. 
 

No one to blame but themselves. 

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Ok put it another way - how does it make any sense (justification) to drop those two courses?

Its hardly the busiest port in the world!

Graham McKenzie offers a perfectly workable sensible compromise in response to LR's application.

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3 minutes ago, Indio said:

Graham McKenzie offers a perfectly workable sensible compromise in response to LR's application.

Why does there need to be any compromise?

The reality is that course selection on any particular day will be largely determined by weather conditions.

In that regard there appears to be NO protocol on the rating of each of the courses I.e. which is ranked as 1 and which is ranked as last.  Nor does there seem to be a protocol on how a course is selected.

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38 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

It seems the Auckland Harbourmaster has just nominated himself for most unliked New Zealander of the year.

Let's see if the Harbourmaster's view gets changed in the next few weeks. Dalton's political reach may be further than you think...

Someone on this thread already went to pains to explain that NZ doesn't work like that, the corruption index is world beating etc. This above all sounds very normal in the world, but it does clash with one person's description so ought to be mentioned for completeness. 

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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

Take it up with Mr. Dalton. He sold his soul to the Italians to win in Bermuda. He is now enjoying all the fun of a notoriously bitchy team as COR. 
 

No one to blame but themselves. 

You wish!! :lol:

Dalts is sitting perfectly where he needs to - and he knows exactly how to handle Bertelli. Nothing from LR is a surprise to anyone - Bertelli has already bitched about the AC75s. LR's application confirms their obligations to look out for the interests of all competitors, something for which they've been criticised on these forums as not doing enough of.

I was just about to post earlier this morning about how boringly nice this edition has been so far, when this story landed :D. IF ETNZ Te Aihe-II comes out with some radical hull protrusions, expect the Rules Committee to be inundated with applications for interpretations from the Challengers.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Why does there need to be any compromise?

The reality is that course selection on any particular day will be largely determined by weather conditions.

In that regard there appears to be NO protocol on the rating of each of the courses I.e. which is ranked as 1 and which is ranked as last.  Nor does there seem to be a protocol on how a course is selected.

Go back and re-read the Ruling. The application's core objection is that the Defender may be able to practise and train on Courses A & B when the Challengers are not. Either all allowed or none allowed. Simple.

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