Salty Seacock

Emirates Team New Zealand.

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8 minutes ago, Varan said:

If they added a prop or two, maybe they wouldn't need so many. :ph34r:

They're looking for anti-cavitation props.

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Quad 450’s, sailing sure is good for the environment! Maybe they all ride electric scooters to work to offset the carbon foot print! AM better not win since Joe Biden is stopping all fossil fuel use. 

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12 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Our collective apologies for this particular piece of shit.

Fuck you and your entire world. 

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

^ Maybe that AP notice preceded the new availability of B&C? 

Yes. ETNZ filed their application ACP36/14 cited by The_Alchemist for mediation on the 31st of October before the PoA announced they will "facilitate the use of the inner harbour races courses (B and C) for all racing for the 36th America’s Cup event." on 4th November.

Which now means the Arbitration Panel decision paragraph a) comes into play:

a) If any part of the course area of the CSS and the Match (e.g. Courses B and/or C) are not accessible with no restriction at any time in accordance with Art. 3.4 of the Protocol, then that part of the course area will be used neither for the CSS nor for the Match.

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Mayo&Calder keep popping up in these Arbitration Panel considerations :(. ACAP36/09 was a dispute mediation initiated by LR/CoR against ETNZ over an outstanding NZ$875k (+GST) for "CoR36 Venue Consideration"(?). ETNZ countered that a second application involved the (same) "payment from CoR to Mayo & Calder Limited and in turn ACE"...

Details of Mayo&Calder's incompetence and dodgy dealings are slowly but inexorably filtering out...

image.png.d4f56b444f7ff70fa4fd584b354b371a.png

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On 11/3/2020 at 9:51 PM, zenmasterfred said:

Fuck'in Red Necks!  Watched to see if they got ground up.

and no outboard motor safety circuit breaker for the wrist ( around 30 US$ ) Just crazy

 

 

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14 hours ago, Jono said:

These motors must be the first in NZ. Nice. Hope Salthouses have built the transoms strong enough.

No, there are definitely more. 

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15 hours ago, Varan said:

If they added a prop or two, maybe they wouldn't need so many. :ph34r:

No they are actually miniaturised Hamilton hydro jets.  Props are old technology in this Cup.  Bit like spinnakers. 

I fully expect the analysts on here to start producing technical drawings showing the cant, AOA's, cavitation break points etc of these jets.  

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23 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No they are actually miniaturised Hamilton hydro jets.  Props are old technology in this Cup.  Bit like spinnakers. 

I fully expect the analysts on here to start producing technical drawings showing the cant, AOA's, cavitation break points etc of these jets.  

Got to have something to do and speculate on??  to try to stop the shit fights!

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14 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Got to have something to do and speculate on??  to try to stop the shit fights!

Yeah I hear you.  Looking forward to all the arguments being settled on the water!

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9 hours ago, Puntone said:

and no outboard motor safety circuit breaker for the wrist ( around 30 US$ ) Just crazy

 

 

All power boats in the US come with that safety lanyard that you need to connect to your wrist.  They were just too lazy to use it and almost got bit by the circle of death.

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17 hours ago, Varan said:

If they added a prop or two, maybe they wouldn't need so many. :ph34r:

Just wandered past, still no props :D

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For those stalking ETNZ on the webcam and wondering what the long thin thing was on the crane, my best guess is it's a strongback/lifting beam for load testing without the mast fitted?
 

1364574530_P1160293(2).thumb.JPG.bbeb081f3db348a0ff85fe31fa16dd55.JPG

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5 hours ago, GeertM said:

They should do a chase boat race between the teams as a pre race event. 

The Ineos Velocity chase boats have pretty good pedigree - 70+knots!!

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21 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Just wandered past, still no props :D

They're in cloaking mode - ribs aren't subject to the CR :P

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29 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

For those stalking ETNZ on the webcam and wondering what the long thin thing was on the crane, my best guess is it's a strongback/lifting beam for load testing without the mast fitted?
 

1364574530_P1160293(2).thumb.JPG.bbeb081f3db348a0ff85fe31fa16dd55.JPG

Anyone got a list of links to ETNZ stalking webcams ?? 

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1 minute ago, kiwi39 said:

Anyone got a list of links to ETNZ stalking webcams ?? 

Team NZ, Ineos, NYYC:
https://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/16/auckland_viaduct_harbour_webcam

Ineos, NYYC (top left):
https://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/209/auckland_city_webcam

All teams on their way in/out:
https://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/61/auckland_queens_wharf_webcam

All teams in the inner gulf: 
https://oceanswims.nz/webcam (my webcam)

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2 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Just wandered past, still no props :D

The props will tell us how fast they’re planning to go. We usually recommend surface piercing props with those engines if 60+ knots is a regular thing. 
 

Edit: looking at those pictures again, looks like that’s what they’re setting up for. That thing is going to MOVE!

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4 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Lovely!  Thanks, I think mikenz2. There go a few more hours every day tracking performances!

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6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yeah I hear you.  Looking forward to all the arguments being settled on the water!

Naive much?

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Game over. ! Surface piercing props and big V8's it has to do 60 knots to match B2 when it bears away..! :D 

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6 hours ago, Monkey said:

The props will tell us how fast they’re planning to go. We usually recommend surface piercing props with those engines if 60+ knots is a regular thing. 
 

Edit: looking at those pictures again, looks like that’s what they’re setting up for. That thing is going to MOVE!

So ... no idea about this stuff -- tell me why 60+ knots requires surface piercing props ? 

 

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7 hours ago, kiwi39 said:

So ... no idea about this stuff -- tell me why 60+ knots requires surface piercing props ? 

 

Ironically, it sort of takes us back to the foil argument that’s been beaten to death already. It causes the prop to ventilate instead of cavitate at high speed, so less loss of thrust. It also allows a larger prop with a deeper pitch, so more thrust at the high end. Then there’s also less of the gearcase getting dragged through the water, so lower drag. There’s a lot more sciencey witchcraft going on, but those are the basics. Oh, and they look cool!

Edit:  And it’s not required, it just works better if speed is the goal. 

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Next step is a hovering boat I Hope.
With the foiling T foil replaced by sheer a sword and a hovering boat,
Can be done.
hovercraft.PNG.e0dd12f4f26d421abd92de2243ff5602.PNG

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34 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Flattest bottom is the winner in this cup is my best educated guess.


 

Amway and The poms had that now they don’t.    So probably no 

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1 minute ago, Zeusproject said:

Amway and The poms had that now the don’t.    So probably no 

Here they are:  the bottoms,
1543916812_americanMagicflatbottom.thumb.PNG.ad4d91e0ab3c48b124b29e24338646f1.PNG
968589943_PradaLunaRossa.thumb.PNG.41f6eec14726e27b517beaa3e85c7a34.PNG
And even worse flattest bottom
SWYMINMVGVC65JSUPWACC5DM34.jpg.36eb0e4ee4a1c27081f058f7d539697e.jpg
 But there are more design features that are decisive.
Powerfull rig, aereodynamics, foils, strong EV Engineering, Hope you are right.
 

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15 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Here they are:  the bottoms,
1543916812_americanMagicflatbottom.thumb.PNG.ad4d91e0ab3c48b124b29e24338646f1.PNG
968589943_PradaLunaRossa.thumb.PNG.41f6eec14726e27b517beaa3e85c7a34.PNG
And even worse flattest bottom
SWYMINMVGVC65JSUPWACC5DM34.jpg.36eb0e4ee4a1c27081f058f7d539697e.jpg
 But there are more design features that are decisive.
Powerfull rig, aereodynamics, foils, strong EV Engineering, Hope you are right.
 

Getting to foils first and stable fast manoeuvres will win the cup 

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3 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Getting to foils first and stable fast manoeuvres will win the cup 

Together with the above features, We 'll see.
In the past cup, who was more one design, the match was more about skillfull sailors.
Perhaps the cup is moving too fast towards new design.
But I like it as well.

I found the last cup beautifull design.
Thanks to Larry.
1670193781_1280px-AC45_World_Series_-_Team_New_Zealand_Team_Japan.thumb.jpg.ba589b457f971018d343cc6f16c7d2e7.jpg

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34 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Together with the above features, We 'll see.
In the past cup, who was more one design, the match was more about skillfull sailors.
Perhaps the cup is moving too fast towards new design.
But I like it as well.

I found the last cup beautifull design.
Thanks to Larry.
1670193781_1280px-AC45_World_Series_-_Team_New_Zealand_Team_Japan.thumb.jpg.ba589b457f971018d343cc6f16c7d2e7.jpg

 No real scope for development though.  Hydro and foils about it.    The rest was one design 

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51 minutes ago, Tropical Madness said:

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a great argument.

 

carry on Schakeldoof

That idiot is wrong about virtually everything he ever posts on here, so I almost wonder if it’s intentional trolling. 

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31 minutes ago, nav said:

Your own reference says AC50, must be trolling:lol:

Pardon me they were lengthened.

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Trump is gone. All we need now is for the Kiwi's to defend the cup and all will be right with the world. 

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4 hours ago, Schakel said:

Pardon me they were lengthened.

Actually, the boats were shortened. My argument stands!

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On 11/7/2020 at 1:21 AM, Monkey said:

Ironically, it sort of takes us back to the foil argument that’s been beaten to death already. It causes the prop to ventilate instead of cavitate at high speed, so less loss of thrust. It also allows a larger prop with a deeper pitch, so more thrust at the high end. Then there’s also less of the gearcase getting dragged through the water, so lower drag. There’s a lot more sciencey witchcraft going on, but those are the basics. Oh, and they look cool!

Edit:  And it’s not required, it just works better if speed is the goal. 

So pretty much the lesser of two weevils. Interesting. 
 

thanks !!

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16 minutes ago, kiwi39 said:

So pretty much the lesser of two weevils. Interesting. 
 

thanks !!

Thank you, Patrick O'Brian. ;-)

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On 11/5/2020 at 4:05 PM, GeertM said:

They should do a chase boat race between the teams as a pre race event. 

That happened during AC31, I think Victory Challenge’s Victimizer won it...

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45 minutes ago, Colomba said:

That happened during AC31, I think Victory Challenge’s Victimizer won it...

That’s awesome. Really needs to happen again!  

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is so cute how you guys keep yourself entertained when you have no boat to watch...  LOL

Shit mate you are relying 100% on kiwis' mad AC obsession to deliver multiple daily sets of footage of other teams... Don't rag on us now! :-)

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8 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Shit mate you are relying 100% on kiwis' mad AC obsession to deliver multiple daily sets of footage of other teams... Don't rag on us now! :-)

Just a part of my sarcastic sense of humor poking fun at you guys waiting for the next creation to be launched. 

I would be anxious as hell seeing the days count by...  

just wondering what kind of swirly stickers they can stick on so it doesn’t look too much like Patriot.... ( oops, there I go again, sorry).

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13 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is so cute how you guys keep yourself entertained when you have no boat to watch...  LOL

Yeah its great that we get to watch all of the Challengers now before ETNZ sends them home.

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Why are ETNZ waiting so long to launch B2?

  1. so competitors dont have time to copy innovations revealed
  2. they are so confident that they dont need to practice
  3. something has gone wrong and they are busy fixing it
  4. building dramatic suspense
  5. waiting for the weather to warm up
  6. modding B2 based on what they have seen from the competitors boats

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46 minutes ago, luminary said:

Why are ETNZ waiting so long to launch B2?

  1. so competitors dont have time to copy innovations revealed
  2. they are so confident that they dont need to practice
  3. something has gone wrong and they are busy fixing it
  4. building dramatic suspense
  5. waiting for the weather to warm up
  6. modding B2 based on what they have seen from the competitors boats

Because they set a date and are sticking too it

they have more time to get B2 going than anyone else 

everyone else is too busy getting their boats sorted to worry about something they don’t have time to change 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Because they set a date and are sticking too it

they have more time to get B2 going than anyone else 

everyone else is too busy getting their boats sorted to worry about something they don’t have time to change 

I agree.  They are on schedule and sticking to their plan.  

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37 minutes ago, Schakel said:

ETNZ against Artemis was close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUkKhEndYto

Too bad they are not competing anymore,
The swedish match sticks. I liked them.

If ETNZ had lost I am sure Artemis could have beaten Oracle

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1 hour ago, uflux said:

If ETNZ had lost I am sure Artemis could have beaten Oracle

If ETNZ had lost all the other boats were pretty much interchangeable and could have got up on their day.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Because they set a date and are sticking too it

they have more time to get B2 going than anyone else 

everyone else is too busy getting their boats sorted to worry about something they don’t have time to change 

I have to disagree. There simply isn’t time to copy hulls at this point. Something broke on Flipper. 

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11 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

If ETNZ had lost all the other boats were pretty much interchangeable and could have got up on their day.

I think Artemis and TNZ were ahead of the others.

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9 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I have to disagree. There simply isn’t time to copy hulls at this point. Something broke on Flipper. 

Their twin skin can be copied and even though most others don't seem to value this I see it as the wining difference. 

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10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I have to disagree. There simply isn’t time to copy hulls at this point. Something broke on Flipper. 

whats breaking B1 got to do with launching B2?

if anything chuck a bit more carbon on B2 and get it out in a hurry

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1 minute ago, Lickindip said:

whats breaking B1 got to do with launching B2?

if anything chuck a bit more carbon on B2 and get it out in a hurry

B1 has nothing to do with B2. I think B2 will launch on its planned schedule. I think Flipper got sent to the garbage can earlier than expected. 

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26 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I have to disagree. There simply isn’t time to copy hulls at this point. Something broke on Flipper. 

What if it did?  So they pushed the boat to the limit and found a weakness.  The hull seemed to be OK.  It didn't sink or break in half or have any obvious structural failure.  None of the pictures posted on here indicated anything.  Aside from Covid-19 restriction delays (which have been overcome) B2 is on schedule.

 

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The broken b1 rumour is bull shit. No evidence of any damage. Fake news ETNZ is right on schedule 

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1 hour ago, uflux said:

The broken b1 rumour is bull shit. No evidence of any damage. Fake news ETNZ is right on schedule 

Well they did admit to a broken steering wheel pedestal... so that’s not no damage is it? 

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

Their twin skin can be copied and even though most others don't seem to value this I see it as the wining difference. 

But you can use the sails etc from B1 (anything that you want to hide) and just start getting use to sailing the new hull.

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1 hour ago, uflux said:

The broken b1 rumour is bull shit. No evidence of any damage. Fake news ETNZ is right on schedule 

Please don't start normalizing Trumpism excuses by using them in normal conversations. 

There is no doubt that they broke the steering column on B1.  No one knows the total extent of the damage, but obviously NZ didn't think that it is was worth the effort to do what was needed to continue sailing B1.  They have always hinted that they would be launching B2 later than some of the other teams, but I seriously doubt that they had intended to be off the water this long.  Remember that they will able to sailing B2 in the Xmas races, so you know that the sailors are desperate to get back on the water.

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18 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please don't start normalizing Trumpism excuses by using them in normal conversations. 

There is no doubt that they broke the steering column on B1.  No one knows the total extent of the damage, but obviously NZ didn't think that it is was worth the effort to do what was needed to continue sailing B1.  They have always hinted that they would be launching B2 later than some of the other teams, but I seriously doubt that they had intended to be off the water this long.  Remember that they will able to sailing B2 in the Xmas races, so you know that the sailors are desperate to get back on the water.

Show me any evidence dude. Otherwise bull shit

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Being to lazy to look for what was said so there fore  it’s bullshit... not a great look.

why would I lie about it? It was said it’s true, go look for it 

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14 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Being to lazy to look for what was said so there fore  it’s bullshit... not a great look.

why would I lie about it? It was said it’s true, go look for it 

I am yet to see anything other than Chinese whispers...zero evidence. So I will go with Occam’s razor 

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strange ...  occam would say

time on water is valuable therefor you do as much as possible

if you are not doing it there is a reason

you cannot do it is the simplest reason

why

because of damage to personnel or equipment

we know they sustained damage to some equipment

therefor that would be the simplest answer

 

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please don't start normalizing Trumpism excuses by using them in normal conversations. 

There is no doubt that they broke the steering column on B1.  No one knows the total extent of the damage, but obviously NZ didn't think that it is was worth the effort to do what was needed to continue sailing B1.  They have always hinted that they would be launching B2 later than some of the other teams, but I seriously doubt that they had intended to be off the water this long.  Remember that they will able to sailing B2 in the Xmas races, so you know that the sailors are desperate to get back on the water.

Do we know they are actually off the water? In AC34 they had a training ground on Lake Arapuni. Haven’t seen Te Kahu in a while... just saying

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19 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

strange ...  occam would say

time on water is valuable therefor you do as much as possible

if you are not doing it there is a reason

you cannot do it is the simplest reason

why

because of damage to personnel or equipment

we know they sustained damage to some equipment

therefor that would be the simplest answer

 

Occam's razor singles out the explanation with the fewest assumptions, not the most...

There's nothing wrong with some fun speculation, but people on here sure like to present theories as truth. Might as well cite some sources while you're at it:

image.png

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15 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Do we know they are actually off the water? In AC34 they had a training ground on Lake Arapuni. Haven’t seen Te Kahu in a while... just saying

Well I saw Burling and Tuke in a Ponsonby restaurant at 7pm Friday with I assume two other team members.  they did not look like they had traveled far. They looked very relaxed.

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6 minutes ago, Dutyfreenz said:

Well I saw Burling and Tuke in a Ponsonby restaurant at 7pm Friday with I assume two other team members.  they did not look like they had traveled far. They looked very relaxed.

Oh I thought according to some posters on here that some of the crew were injured when they crashed and trashed the steering pedestal and other stuff!

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Ok have fun 

Show me the money...show me the money :rolleyes:

9CD4BC9D-B244-4B50-80BE-36C1973AED85.jpeg

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54 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Oh I thought according to some posters on here that some of the crew were injured when they crashed and trashed the steering pedestal and other stuff!

Someone even thought they snapped the boat in half after his imagination ran away with him when he saw a couple of photos of a reflection.

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Or instead they looked at the repair time and overlaid it on the time required to transfer some of the internals from B1 to B2 and realized there was no point focusing effort on a boat that won't sail again. People seem to be ignoring the fact there is a couple of rather significant components missing from B1 sitting on the hard ...

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54 minutes ago, NSP said:

 People seem to be ignoring the fact there is a couple of rather significant components missing from B1 sitting on the hard ...

So to save the guessing game .. which bits ? 

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4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

But you can use the sails etc from B1 (anything that you want to hide) and just start getting use to sailing the new hull.

Not if there is a major difference in the control and operation of the new rig, which a lot of people think is little better than a single sail.
But I am suggesting there will be one hell of a difference, a surprise to everyone? Totally new.

I guess we must wait and see.  I hope we can see the difference it might only be in performance?

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25 minutes ago, kiwi39 said:

So to save the guessing game .. which bits ? 

Foil arms

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8 hours ago, luminary said:

Why are ETNZ waiting so long to launch B2?

  1. so competitors dont have time to copy innovations revealed
  2. they are so confident that they dont need to practice
  3. something has gone wrong and they are busy fixing it
  4. building dramatic suspense
  5. waiting for the weather to warm up
  6. modding B2 based on what they have seen from the competitors boats

My vote is for #1, but #6 is a real possibility.

 

I also think that B1 is in plain sight to dispel myths about #7 - B1 modification

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15 minutes ago, CaptKeen said:

Foil arms

Foil arms are supplied, bog standard stock.

Unless this was weak attempt at humour.

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4 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Foil arms are supplied, bog standard stock.

Unless this was weak attempt at humour.

I realise that.. they have been removed from B1 to be used on B2. B1 is sans foil arms sitting on the dock..

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6 hours ago, uflux said:

Show me any evidence dude. Otherwise bull shit

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-team-new-zealand-capsize-in-strong-winds/63G26ISYALQOWFWXNJUEZD6PIQ/

Emirates Team New Zealand capsized their AC75 Te Aihe when sailing in strong winds yesterday morning, damaging their steering pedestal.

.....

 

Team NZ CEO Grant Dalton told Sail-World that they wanted to test what was possible in terms of top-end speed and to find out if there were any edges in extreme conditions for the AC75, ahead of the launch of their second AC75 and race boat.

The AC75 suffered damage to a steering pedestal in the incident - and returned to shore. Otherwise, Te Aihe would have continued training - as happened in their first capsize pre-Christmas when they trained for a further three hours after the incident.

....

"The days are really counting down fast now, and every hour we can get on the water just helps us learn more and more," Team NZ's Glenn Ashby told Sailingscuttlebutt.

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3 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Not if there is a major difference in the control and operation of the new rig, which a lot of people think is little better than a single sail.
But I am suggesting there will be one hell of a difference, a surprise to everyone? Totally new.

I guess we must wait and see.  I hope we can see the difference it might only be in performance?

In a podcast, may have been in a Shirley Robertson one, a designer mentioned that the twin skin sails weren't far behind the solid wings in performance terms.

Guarantee that many racing yacht designers will be watching this development closely, although the will be some issues to overcome, such as reefing in ocean racing yachts etc. No doubt solutions will be found.

Will it be long before I watch a foiling yacht with this type of mainsail racing in the Sydney-Hobart race? The self-righting rules may delay that though...

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@MaxHugen Thank you for all your good work keeping us from throwing shit/mud.  Your interesting analysis ups the general IQ here. It's a bit late for me.  I hope Glen does a doco on AC35 wing abilities (I am sure we will all be amazed!?) and he starts a sail loft making twin skins with no rule limitations with the developments they have done.  A truly reefable twin skin main for a lot of big boats might eventuate? 

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Calm down peeps. B2 will be launched in about a week as scheduled. I know we're in an ETNZ vacuum right now but please take a breath and wait. Good things take time.

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