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Matagi

Find a boat game: Fastnet on a budget

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How would you approach this?

I’m thinking of mounting a Fastnet ‚campaign‘ on a budget.

I’m certainly not intending on winning. BUT: 2021, with the finish in Cherbourg might be much more of a tidal game than previously. Depending on the tidal gate you get, this might favour smaller boats with lower rating much more than in the past. A good tide might catapult you to the front, a bad might, well, essentially leave you were you would have been anyway.

Anyway, the focus is fun and ticking it of the bucket list. So, the task is: find a boat that would fit the following description:

_Eligible to enter the two-handed division (stability, OSR requirements, TCC min .855), not necessarily win it.

_acceptable for family cruising afterwards (I need to sell this to my wife…)

_ in acceptable condition, no major refit necessary and should have some lifecycles left afterwards (no buy, use and burn)

_like it or not: must tick aesthetic points (my wife, remember?).

_budget: Let’s say really low. Around 15k EUR? For the fun of it. As the title says: on a budget. Let’s see, how far this takes us.

I’ll kick it of with this find:

A Guy Thompson T 31 for ca. 12k EUR

573334_1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Wam said:

15k for the boat with work needed or 15k including the work?

Well, I think, this is how you end up with the price in the end, so you decide :) Any idea is welcome. I like the half-tonner idea. I never understood, why IOR boats have such a bad reputation. I think esp. earlier designs are quite seaworthy. Not sure about the loo in the fo'c'sle, though :)

sellerbuyer.jpg

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4 hours ago, Snowden said:

This has been for sale for a while, must be the cheapest Cat2 boat out there (that qualifies on STIX in its own right rather than being grandfathered in like a half tonner):

https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/whitbread-30/590115

Very good find, thanks! And a proven participant as well. Bit over the limit, but seems worth it.

There is a couple in Hamburg who sailed a Mount Gay in the Baltics, I think these are the same?

I also came across this halftonner, 10 Grand, seems fair. No idea reg. OSR, though, sails would need replacement, I guess.

$_86.JPG

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If those are the best sails on that pictured boat budget for a full suit, what's that?

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8 hours ago, Matagi said:

Well, I think, this is how you end up with the price in the end, so you decide :) Any idea is welcome. I like the half-tonner idea. I never understood, why IOR boats have such a bad reputation. I think esp. earlier designs are quite seaworthy. Not sure about the loo in the fo'c'sle, though :)

 The term covers a huge range of designs from the 60s to the 80s. Some of the later ones were over optimised, with stripped out interiors and compromised handling, especially when overpowered, I understand. 

Some of the earlier ones were proper cruiser-racers with decent interiors and good sailing characteristics compared to a cruising boat.  They won't keep pace with a modern boat off the wind but can be a joy to sail.  One of our best days last season was a longish beat to Campbeltown... proper upwind sailing in a furniture boat, great fun. :-)

  ...and if you are not trying to win, they can be pretty cheap to buy.. though I imagine quite hard to sell! 

 There's the halfton classics cup, too, if you're in the right stretch of water.  Looks like fun, and they claim to welcome boats that haven't been hacked about, as well as those that have been expensively optimised!

 Watch out for crew needs, though.  Many were designed to be raced with the front row of a rugby team on the rail... which isn't the best starting point for leisurely short-handed cruising!!!!

 Finally, it's quite likely that truly horrible designs have long since been scrapped.  Anything still on the water after 25+ years must surely have something to offer, or a complete  fruitcake for an owner :-).

Cheers,

               W.

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This one may be suitable. Did the Ostar in 1976 in the hands of Yves Anrys. Was a windy edition.

DSC03113.JPG

Pionzeilplan.png

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42 minutes ago, maarten said:

This one may be suitable. Did the Ostar in 1976 in the hands of Yves Anrys. Was a windy edition.

cropped-dsc4836.jpg

YES!!!

Thanks for this. Last year, the Pion was actually my 'default boat', when I came up with this idea for the first time. I absolutely like them. Van de Stadt design, a precursor to the early Dehlers, very stable, and not slow. Advertised prices start at ca. 9000 EUR. Thanks, didn't know about the OSTAR , good to know

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It's going to be a long race on some of those suggestions. The MG30 will get you there while they're still clearing up the litter. With the others they'll by no evidence that the event ever happened.

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1 hour ago, European Bloke said:

It's going to be a long race on some of those suggestions. The MG30 will get you there while they're still clearing up the litter. With the others they'll by no evidence that the event ever happened.

As long as there is one person left to take my time and hand me that Rolex, that's ok by me :) 

https://newatlas.com/ukp14000-yacht-takes-handicap-win-in-rolex-fastnet-race/4423/

4423_13080565457.jpg

And it's not litter. It's 'déchets'. even garbage sounds beautiful in French ...

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The Pion handles very well. Upwind no need for a helmsman. Very well balanced.

I mostly singlehand the boat. Behaves very well but it is not a modern wide beam planing platform. For your budget though it would be a good choice. They are strongly built, sail well upwind and do not wipe out quickly under spinaker.

Look for Yves Anrys on the net and you will find the Ostar video about his participation.

Pm me if you need more info on the boat.

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I'm curious to know why @Bruno downvoted the Rodgers 30.  Seems like a good candidate except the OP's budget.  Sure, the sails are knackered.  It's a used boat, sails are going to have to be updated anyway unless it's in the 1%!

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The Rogers design - is sister to ex 'Sticky Fingers'? ;  the  OCD design is ex Maverick... sailed in  the RWYC 2H by one Mark Turner (of OC Challenges etc fame... who also sailed Sticky Fingers in the  RORC Round Britain race... way back) and Chis Briggs. 
I tried to get an Open30 ('OverProof' - Van Gorken design) to comply and failed.. due to being light weight and high performance the Stability and STIX numbers are a bummer... so you may have problems getting RORC to agree to any Open30  being Cat 2 

you could look at a multihull ??

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The other thing to be aware of is that if the boat was launched after 1987 you either need ISO A certification or a friendly naval architect to write you a letter to meet OSR Cat2. Non-RCD compliant grey market boats will probably give you a world of pain.

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What's your verdict on either a Selection 37  

600a57cb1dafe39eff6db7737e54fe5f.jpg

Or a Super Arlequin

1483971124_2.jpg

I know, they look like stealth bombers, but I kinda like them, always had a crush on Maeva (not depicted here).

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7 hours ago, Snowden said:

You pay a premium for the one design racing.  Unless you want to be eligible for that you can get more boat for less money elsewhere. 

 Makes them easier to sell, though.  Which could be a big plus. 

Cheers,

               W.

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it might stretch the budget slightly but a JOD35 or J105 would make a good “Fastnet on a budget” boat, I know a one of each for sale in the UK, an old 105 with a deal that could be had.

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2 hours ago, JL92S said:

it might stretch the budget slightly but a JOD35 or J105 would make a good “Fastnet on a budget” boat, I know a one of each for sale in the UK, an old 105 with a deal that could be had.

I like the idea, I think JOD35 are well underrated. Interesting look, too, pricewise a bit high, yes, currently asking prices start at ca. 26k EUR in France.

J/105 is certainly too high a price still, but there is a J/35 for 15k on the market??? 

557e1529-741c-40d1-98c9-2b9ad53092f2_500

What I don't get is: Re the ORC measurement the one J/35 that took part in the Fastnet has a Limit of positive stability of ca. 110 degrees? That is nowhere near what would be required under IRC. Must have had an eligble STIX in that case, right? Anyone know how those two things can diverge that much? I always rather thought of STIX as at least somewhat correlating with LPS, that's why I always looked for the easier accessible ORC certificates as a first reference. Now, I'm not so sure, what do you think?

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Hi Folks.

Speaking as the owner of the Whitbread 30 referred to by several posters, Yes she is a sister ship to the famous (an now lost) Sticky Fingers and is great fun for not so much money.

Just for the record, she hasn't been on the market for some time, she was advertised this time last year, then we decided to  keep her another year and so took her off the market. She is now for sale again. Oh, and the sails are not knackered.

Need to be careful what I say before someone shouts 'Buy an Ad' but she's a proven Fastnet boat. However, given the OP's original requirements I have to agree that a Sigma 33 is probably the best bet, there are several available within the budget and they would fulfill the 'cruising with family' requirement, which the Whitbread 30 certainly won't, unless they are very adventurous!

Be sure to check out how much the required safety equipment will cost you , too. It's not cheap (all included with....oops, nearly did it again)

Kev.

 

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On 12/16/2019 at 10:28 PM, Snowden said:

I did a Fastnet on a Sigma 33. I wouldn't do so again, the helm position kills your back on a long offshore. The owner  drew similar conclusions and bought a bigger boat.

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

I did a Fastnet on a Sigma 33. I wouldn't do so again, the helm position kills your back on a long offshore. The owner  drew similar conclusions and bought a bigger boat.

The thread starter wants to sail 2-handed... autopilot doesn't have a back to worry about ;-)

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On 12/16/2019 at 8:33 AM, Hitchhiker said:

I'm curious to know why @Bruno downvoted the Rodgers 30.  Seems like a good candidate except the OP's budget.  Sure, the sails are knackered.  It's a used boat, sails are going to have to be updated anyway unless it's in the 1%!

Just the sails, if I was doing a Fastnet on a keelboat I would prefer a really good #1, #3, & solid 4& 5, which means the standard roller furler is out. But that's just me.

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Anybody familiar with H-Star. It's a Groop design, a bit longer than the H-boat, but not as much as the 323 or the 35. Especially the cockpit and interior layout seem very fitting to me. 

boat-2018-09-08-04-59-47-6ba17f43-9600-4

27072010291.jpg

 

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