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The F1 2020 thread

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Don't leave out the African Nations, the Antipodean Nations and the Asian Nations

Toyota Tried and Honda is present. There have been a few Asian Drivers too. Sato being the one I remember most.

Does F1 even visit Africa?

 

 

The English language sucks. too many words to fuck thing up.

Antipodean

[anˌtipəˈdēən]

ADJECTIVE

relating to Australia or New Zealand (used by inhabitants of the northern hemisphere).

"Antipodean wines"

NOUN

a person from Australia or New Zealand (used by inhabitants of the northern hemisphere).

"a brisk Antipodean, she moved with speed and efficiency" (are talking about an AC boat)

 

27 minutes ago, Liquid said:

I'm fascinated by extreme talent. It's a superpower!

Is Hamilton so good that he could jump into any teams car and beat their own times? His first title was in a McLaren... 

Merc seems to have a lock on the software to hardware ratio!

 

I'd like to see them all in equal cars. Merc has so much money and data that is it almost unfair.

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

Toyota Tried and Honda is present. There have been a few Asian Drivers too. Sato being the one I remember most.

Does F1 even visit Africa?

There used to be a F1 race in South Africa, but it ended in 1993. There is talk of adding Morocco to Formula 1 after a few successful Formula E races.

MS

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1 hour ago, Liquid said:

I'm fascinated by extreme talent. It's a superpower!

Is Hamilton so good that he could jump into any teams car and beat their own times? His first title was in a McLaren... 

Merc seems to have a lock on the software to hardware ratio!

Pretty sure Hamilton is the best driver at the moment. You don't get such dominance with a single imperfect part. The other teams employ great drivers and engineers aswell.

Hamilton has to be named with Senna and Schuhmacher as one of the best drivers in modern F1.

Verstappen also seems really good. I can see him besome the number one guy in a post Hamilton F1.

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1 hour ago, mathystuff said:

Verstappen also seems really good. I can see him besome the number one guy in a post Hamilton F1.

There is a better than even chance Max will never win a world championship.  

He won’t win this year or next (same cars in 2021).  So he’s relying on Red Bull designing the best new rules car for 2022 and Honda bridging the gap engine wise.  If those 2 things don’t happen he’s stuck hoping whoever does have the best 2022 model car drops a driver and picks him up.  All the top teams have development programs and have 2 more years to identify a talented driver before that even becomes a possibility.  As such there is a good chance they would promote from within unless like red bull they start to realise their “next wave” just don’t quite have it.

He wouldn’t be the first F1 great to never win a championship.  There are some potential greats who have never won a race because the only chances they ever got were from B and C grade teams.

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7 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

He wouldn’t be the first F1 great to never win a championship.  There are some potential greats who have never won a race because the only chances they ever got were from B and C grade teams. 

I think that's going to become more rare. All teams will employ some mathematician who knows his shit for scouting by now and will have a very good understanding of how fast each driver is.

That said it is still very possible Verstappen will never win a championship and obviously all F1 drivers are out of this world talented. I'd probably kill myself on the first lap in such a car.

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1 hour ago, mathystuff said:

Hamilton has to be named with Senna and Schuhmacher as one of the best drivers in modern F1.

Verstappen also seems really good. I can see him besome the number one guy in a post Hamilton F1.

Hamilton is a GOAT for sure!

Seems Max will be next to hold the mantle!

Ohh... the pain to be on the red team right now....

 

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16 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

I'd probably kill myself on the first lap in such a car.

Most likely! 

Although it is hard to die in an F1 seat now...

 

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19 hours ago, mathystuff said:

Pretty sure Hamilton is the best driver at the moment. You don't get such dominance with a single imperfect part. The other teams employ great drivers and engineers aswell.

Hamilton has to be named with Senna and Schuhmacher as one of the best drivers in modern F1.

Verstappen also seems really good. I can see him besome the number one guy in a post Hamilton F1.

He is not the best driver at the moment nor should he even be mentioned in the same breath as Ayrton and Michael. Ham just has muuuuccchhhh better equipment. If he was clearly the best , Rosberg wouldn't have won his championship. You know merc didn't want him to win .  The entire field could win in the mercedes. 

He slightly better than Bottas and he's just the donkey in the stable.  Hamilton has been given every break along his trip to the top. I guarantee that he would not have been given a penalty in the last race except that another driver did exactly the same thing so they had to appear even handed.

And then with a car almost 2 sec a lap faster than most of the field he could only get back to 6 ?  Imagine if schumacher or senna had a car that much faster than the entire field . Most overrated driver in F1 history and biggest whiner and general DB.  

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18 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

He is not the best driver at the moment nor should he even be mentioned in the same breath as Ayrton and Michael. Ham just has muuuuccchhhh better equipment. If he was clearly the best , Rosberg wouldn't have won his championship. You know merc didn't want him to win .  The entire field could win in the mercedes. 

He slightly better than Bottas and he's just the donkey in the stable.  Hamilton has been given every break along his trip to the top. I guarantee that he would not have been given a penalty in the last race except that another driver did exactly the same thing so they had to appear even handed.

And then with a car almost 2 sec a lap faster than most of the field he could only get back to 6 ?  Imagine if schumacher or senna had a car that much faster than the entire field . Most overrated driver in F1 history and biggest whiner and general DB.  

Don't forget about Alonso.  I think it's always clear who the really good drivers are because they can make the most out of their car when it's not fast.  Look at Alonso driving way above his car's ability in the McLaren.  I think Leclerc falls in this category too though he's a whiner.  The fact that he gets 5-8 places better than Vettel...  

Otherwise, I agree, it seems as though it's the equipment.  Even Max couldn't do much with the Red Bull after they changed the mapping rules.  I wonder how much of an effect that will have on the rest of the season.

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On 9/8/2020 at 11:45 AM, Meat Wad said:

Toyota Tried and Honda is present. There have been a few Asian Drivers too. Sato being the one I remember most.

Does F1 even visit Africa?

 

 

The English language sucks. too many words to fuck thing up.

Antipodean

[anˌtipəˈdēən]

ADJECTIVE

relating to Australia or New Zealand (used by inhabitants of the northern hemisphere).

"Antipodean wines"

NOUN

a person from Australia or New Zealand (used by inhabitants of the northern hemisphere).

"a brisk Antipodean, she moved with speed and efficiency" (are talking about an AC boat)

 

I'd like to see them all in equal cars. Merc has so much money and data that is it almost unfair.

KIWI = Keen Individual Without Intelligence !

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4 hours ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

He was so confident that he was staying...

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4 hours ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Wow,

I think everyone knew it was coming but really?  

Assuming Vettal to Auston Martin (unless something really freaky happen and they call up the Hulk which is what i'd do right now)...

The only unclaimed seats are in Alfa and Haas and to fill them you have to consider..

Incumbent drivers

Giovinazzi
Raikkonen
Magnussen
Grosjean

People who deserve/need seats

Perez
Hulkenburg

From F2 (and I believe both Alfa and Hass are somewhat obliged to carry a Ferrari Junior) 

Callum Ilott
Michael Schumacher (would make life a lot more politically correct for Ferrari if he can stay ahead of Shwartzman have had a good weekend when he had a bad one)
Robert Shwartzman (made F3 his bitch last year and was leading F2 until a bad weekend in Italy).

Perez brings his own sponsors and I believe if they take a Ferrari Junior their wage will be heavily subsidized too.  Given the driver relations over the last few years I think you'll see both Haas drivers dropped and replaced with Perez and either Ilott or Schumacher.  I'd actually pick Shwartzman but can't see a US flagged team be represented by a Mexican and a Russian driver.  With new salary and expenses caps that will make Haas a very cheap team to run/own.

Alfa is harder.  it is very politically correct for this Swiss based "Italian" team to have an Italian driver but while Giovanizzi is ahead or Raikkonen on points he is actually being out driven in most races.  Not sure what I'd do if I were them.  They've been in average cars but over 2 years neither has been able dominate their team mate.  Raikkonen is unlikely to suddenly get better and many would argue Giovanizzi has had his shot.  The question then becomes do you go the Williams path and bring in 2 "young guns" or do you keep Raikkonen (or swap him for Hulkenburg) as a solid grounding who can help work on car setup and development while Jr finds their legs.  I was going to say Alfa know they're going to be back markers again next year so I'd offer either Raikkonen (if he still want to play) or Hulkenburg a 12 month contract to act as a benchmark for a new young driver.  But as I typed it I realized fuck that, as far as anyone can tell Raikkonen just loves the F1 world.  Take on 2 Ferrari F1 juniors (and make sure ferrari know your doing them a favour and get them to heavily subsidize their wages.  Then with the left over cash create a whole new coach / mentor / reserve driver role for Raikkonen where he spend a lot more time in the seat than a reserve driver usually would in order to give feedback to both engineers and new drivers. 

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10 hours ago, surf nazi said:

He is not the best driver at the moment nor should he even be mentioned in the same breath as Ayrton and Michael. Ham just has muuuuccchhhh better equipment. If he was clearly the best , Rosberg wouldn't have won his championship. You know merc didn't want him to win .  The entire field could win in the mercedes. 

He slightly better than Bottas and he's just the donkey in the stable.  Hamilton has been given every break along his trip to the top. I guarantee that he would not have been given a penalty in the last race except that another driver did exactly the same thing so they had to appear even handed.

And then with a car almost 2 sec a lap faster than most of the field he could only get back to 6 ?  Imagine if schumacher or senna had a car that much faster than the entire field . Most overrated driver in F1 history and biggest whiner and general DB.  

Hamilton has 6 world titles... the first one in a McLaren!!!

6 world titles and the driver is just along for the ride?

Even if Mercedes is 'cheating', he's damned good making their cars go very, very fast!

 

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I'm with you Liquid....LH is a great driver...and the record books will prove it! He is also a gentleman and is always quick to praise the crew and workers in the factory. CLASS

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what a waste of money.

Not as fast as Leclerc at Ferrari
Not as fast as Ricciado at Red Bull
Only marginally faster than Raikkonen at Ferrari
Only marginally faster than Webber at Red Bull

Ricciado is slower than Verstappen so he's slower than him to.

So in equal cars we know there are at least 3 people on the track that can beat him.  We don't have reliable cross overs for others but statistically a couple must be up there.  For example Russel scored more points in the 2018 F2 than Leclerc did in 2017.


 

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2 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

what a waste of money.

Not as fast as Leclerc at Ferrari
Not as fast as Ricciado at Red Bull
Only marginally faster than Raikkonen at Ferrari
Only marginally faster than Webber at Red Bull

Ricciado is slower than Verstappen so he's slower than him to.

So in equal cars we know there are at least 3 people on the track that can beat him.  We don't have reliable cross overs for others but statistically a couple must be up there.  For example Russel scored more points in the 2018 F2 than Leclerc did in 2017.


 

Agreed definitely not fast unless he has a dominant car under him, but no not sure they are looking for just speed. I think he brings a lot of experience of being on teams that are challenging for a championship. No one there has that kind of experience yet. Checko is the big loser and it's a shame, since it was him that brought them back from the brink a couple of years ago opening the way for Stroll senior. If he does not get a seat  I wonder how long before the Mexican GP drops off the calendar again.

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31 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That’s gonna make Lance look better....

Bet it doesn’t. Hulkenburg basically matched him with 0 practice or training.      That fortnight devalued both the racing point drivers.
 

I love it when drivers move between teams.  It’s the only way we really get a feel for the true skills / rankings of the different drivers.  The rest of the time the cars make too much of a difference.  The cycle that Ricciardo and Sainz have been through oven the last and next 18 months will give us quite a unique snapshot of a large cross section of the field.

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10 hours ago, Liquid said:

Hamilton has 6 world titles... the first one in a McLaren!!!

6 world titles and the driver is just along for the ride?

Even if Mercedes is 'cheating', he's damned good making their cars go very, very fast!

 

Who did he beat by 1 point for that first championship ? Massa, who is not going down as one of the best drivers ever. And hamilton would have had 7 world titles except that he lost one championship to his teammate Rosberg who also will not be listed as one of the best F1 drivers. I never said he's just along for the ride. He is a great driver but  F1 drivers are the best in the world. But mercedes dominance is unprecedented. They are just about always close to a second or more faster than their closest rivals and I use that term loosely. The whole rest of field is close to only one second apart from top to bottom.  

For the record, I'm a tifosi but this year I'm for abh, anyone but hamilton. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Liquid said:

Hamilton has 6 world titles... the first one in a McLaren!!!

6 world titles and the driver is just along for the ride?

Even if Mercedes is 'cheating', he's damned good making their cars go very, very fast!

 

He's better than Bottas

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1 hour ago, surf nazi said:

For the record, I'm a tifosi but this year I'm for abh, anyone but hamilton. 

 

Why the HATE??  Hammo is humble, polite, well spoken, and a helluva a good driver with 6 titles, and will possibly eclipse Schumacher's records...

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11 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Why the HATE??  Hammo is humble, polite well spoken, and a helluva a good driver with 6 titles, and will possibly eclipse Schumacher's records...

While records are made to be broken, I believe that Schumacher was the best ever and I hate to see his records broken. Yes, Hamilton says all the right things while on camera but off camera not so much. His forcing of his political agenda on mercedes and F1 is the straw that broken this camels back.

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1 hour ago, surf nazi said:

Who did he beat by 1 point for that first championship ? Massa, who is not going down as one of the best drivers ever. And hamilton would have had 7 world titles except that he lost one championship to his teammate Rosberg who also will not be listed as one of the best F1 drivers. I never said he's just along for the ride. He is a great driver but  F1 drivers are the best in the world. But mercedes dominance is unprecedented. They are just about always close to a second or more faster than their closest rivals and I use that term loosely. The whole rest of field is close to only one second apart from top to bottom.  

For the record, I'm a tifosi but this year I'm for abh, anyone but hamilton. 

 

 

 

1. Mercedes dominance is not unprecedented. F1 has often been about 1 team making a step and dominating until the others catch up e.g. Williams (senna), Ferrari (schumacher), McLaren, Redbull (vetel), and now Mercedes. 

2. Remember the year before as a rookie I think LH lost the WDC by 1 point to Kimi. One embarassing off at pit entry at suzuka or perhaps Malaysia I forget and he would have been the rookie champion.

3. One could easily argue that the only reason Rosberg beat LH in the WDC were the couple of DNF's LH endured due to equipment issues that year that Rosberg didn't have. I seem to remember a lot of chit chat from the LH fan Boys that it was a German conspiracy. Either way Rosberg benefitted.

4. If you needed a drive to tame a recalcitrant car then and extract the absolute max then Alonso, Senna, Hamilton and Schumacher are all in the mix for the modern era.

Haters will always hate but you cannot argue that he has become the elder statesman of the sport and essentially a very humble human being given his situation.

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34 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

While records are made to be broken, I believe that Schumacher was the best ever and I hate to see his records broken. Yes, Hamilton says all the right things while on camera but off camera not so much. His forcing of his political agenda on mercedes and F1 is the straw that broken this camels back.

 

So you have a problem with BLM??  That explains a lot!

 

EDIT:  Just to be clear, I am NOT an LH Fanboy, but I respect the job he does, and the person he is.  I prefer drivers with personality, or uniqueness, like Richiardo, or Kimi or Max....

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30 minutes ago, vibroman said:

 

1. Mercedes dominance is not unprecedented. F1 has often been about 1 team making a step and dominating until the others catch up e.g. Williams (senna), Ferrari (schumacher), McLaren, Redbull (vetel), and now Mercedes. 

2. Remember the year before as a rookie I think LH lost the WDC by 1 point to Kimi. One embarassing off at pit entry at suzuka or perhaps Malaysia I forget and he would have been the rookie champion.

3. One could easily argue that the only reason Rosberg beat LH in the WDC were the couple of DNF's LH endured due to equipment issues that year that Rosberg didn't have. I seem to remember a lot of chit chat from the LH fan Boys that it was a German conspiracy. Either way Rosberg benefitted.

4. If you needed a drive to tame a recalcitrant car then and extract the absolute max then Alonso, Senna, Hamilton and Schumacher are all in the mix for the modern era.

Haters will always hate but you cannot argue that he has become the elder statesman of the sport and essentially a very humble human being given his situation.

While dominance by a single manufacturer and driver is pretty normal for F-1, the modern era of cost control driven restrictions on in season updates makes it harder to catch up, even if funds were available.  Merc nailed the current engine and everybody else has been able to match power/reliability within the change rules.  

That said,  you would be unwise to bet against Lewis in a head up competition using the same car.  While he has occasionally benefited from the stewards allowing him a bit too much leeway (IMHO), he is always fast and rarely makes mistakes.  Talented and controlled in a great car is a tough mix to beat.  He's earned his place at or near the top of the pecking order in F-1 history.  

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10 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

So you have a problem with BLM??  That explains a lot!

 

EDI:  Just to be clear, I am NOT an LH Fanboy, but I respect the job he does, and the person he is.  I prefer drivers with personality, or uniqueness, like Richiardo, or Kimi or Max....

Don't act like you know anything  about me because you don't. I made no comment about BLM.  I just think sport should be sport. 

I don't know LH personally so I have no opinion on what kind of person he is. I'm guessing you don't know him either but you're entitled to have respect for whomever you want on whatever basis you want. 

I did make a mistake before. I'm not for anyone but hamilton  , I'm for anyone but mercedes.         

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55 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

While records are made to be broken, I believe that Schumacher was the best ever and I hate to see his records broken. Yes, Hamilton says all the right things while on camera but off camera not so much. His forcing of his political agenda on mercedes and F1 is the straw that broken this camels back.

I always find Hamilton a touch insincere when he is on camera, like he has rehearsed his praise for the fans and the team, but I may be completely mis-reading him.  Bringing the BLM and end racism movement to F1, though, has improved my opinion of him.  We need prominent people in sports to show support for this movement and it is finally happening all over.   How can you not support the end of racism?  I know, take it to PA.

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7 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

what a waste of money.

Not as fast as Leclerc at Ferrari
Not as fast as Ricciado at Red Bull
Only marginally faster than Raikkonen at Ferrari
Only marginally faster than Webber at Red Bull

Ricciado is slower than Verstappen so he's slower than him to.

So in equal cars we know there are at least 3 people on the track that can beat him.  We don't have reliable cross overs for others but statistically a couple must be up there.  For example Russel scored more points in the 2018 F2 than Leclerc did in 2017.


 

yes, I just don't know why they would do that unless he comes at a very low price

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2 hours ago, surf nazi said:

His forcing of his political agenda on mercedes and F1 is the straw that broken this camels back.

Your avatar name is now understood....

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3 hours ago, surf nazi said:

While records are made to be broken, I believe that Schumacher was the best ever and I hate to see his records broken. Yes, Hamilton says all the right things while on camera but off camera not so much. His forcing of his political agenda on mercedes and F1 is the straw that broken this camels back.

I named Schumacher the "teutonic thug". He got no less a quality of equipment than Hamilton has gotten in fact he kind of got the same kind of Ross Brawn engineering/team building that Hamilton has enjoyed at Mercedes just earlier and with a different team. But in the end, he was a fucking thug and has little respect from other drivers and will never be mentioned in the same light as the greats in the sport regardless of his records. Likely Hamilton won't be either due to the equipment domination aspect of things today. Hamilton is helping Mercedes sell a shit load of cars and the image he is helping them with in regards to BLM will only benefit them for many years to come. Its good for the sport and sport in general imo. 

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29 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

But in the end, he was a fucking thug and has little respect from other drivers and will never be mentioned in the same light as the greats in the sport regardless of his records.

/facepalm

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2 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

I named Schumacher the "teutonic thug". He got no less a quality of equipment than Hamilton has gotten in fact he kind of got the same kind of Ross Brawn engineering/team building that Hamilton has enjoyed at Mercedes just earlier and with a different team. But in the end, he was a fucking thug and has little respect from other drivers and will never be mentioned in the same light as the greats in the sport regardless of his records. Likely Hamilton won't be either due to the equipment domination aspect of things today. Hamilton is helping Mercedes sell a shit load of cars and the image he is helping them with in regards to BLM will only benefit them for many years to come. Its good for the sport and sport in general imo. 

a.k.a. dick dastardly

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2 hours ago, b green said:

LH is also easy on the car and tires.....smooth....and then there is Hammer time

 

Too bad they lost "party mode"!  They should allow the other teams to use it to even up their chances....

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Just now, billy backstay said:

 

Too bad they lost "party mode"!  They should allow the other teams to use it to even up their chances....

I like it how it is now.  Teams have to decide in advance how much faith they have in their engines and drivers have to manage the engine with the accelerator pedal rather that the buttons on the steering wheel.  

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19 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

what a waste of money.

Not as fast as Leclerc at Ferrari
Not as fast as Ricciado at Red Bull
Only marginally faster than Raikkonen at Ferrari
Only marginally faster than Webber at Red Bull

Ricciado is slower than Verstappen so he's slower than him to.

So in equal cars we know there are at least 3 people on the track that can beat him.  We don't have reliable cross overs for others but statistically a couple must be up there.  For example Russel scored more points in the 2018 F2 than Leclerc did in 2017.


 

Good points. Only slight disagreement is that I don't think there was ever a clear run between Verstappen and Ricciardo. After six races in 2018 Ricciardo had two wins, and some retirements, and Ricciardo was the Red Bull that got 2 poles. in the infamous Baku race Ricciardo was trying to overtake Verstappen for the second time, after Red Bull pitted Verstappen first.

There is no doubt Verstappen is growing into a very good driver - maybe not having his father around this year is good for him! (My wife's observation).

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8 minutes ago, mccroc said:

Good points. Only slight disagreement is that I don't think there was ever a clear run between Verstappen and Ricciardo. After six races in 2018 Ricciardo had two wins, and some retirements, and Ricciardo was the Red Bull that got 2 poles. in the infamous Baku race Ricciardo was trying to overtake Verstappen for the second time, after Red Bull pitted Verstappen first.

There is no doubt Verstappen is growing into a very good driver - maybe not having his father around this year is good for him! (My wife's observation).

I actually agree but thought for the sake of the discussion is wasn't worth pushing the point. 

I do think Ricciardio is pretty hard on cars, after ending last year's Melbourne race by taking to the grass off the start in the first 5 seconds, I was surprised to see him do it again last weekend.  I'm assuming he at least inspects the starting straight "nature strip" pretty carefully these days

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On 9/9/2020 at 7:42 PM, Liquid said:

Hamilton has 6 world titles... the first one in a McLaren!!!

6 world titles and the driver is just along for the ride?

Even if Mercedes is 'cheating', he's damned good making their cars go very, very fast!

On 9/9/2020 at 7:50 PM, b green said:

I'm with you Liquid....LH is a great driver...and the record books will prove it! He is also a gentleman and is always quick to praise the crew and workers in the factory. CLASS

 

 

Which season was it that something happened that was questioned that allowed LH to win the WC title that would have gone to someone else?

And wasn't there a season where he won by the skin of his teeth because of some rain or another questionable incident. Maybe they were the same. It was a while back.

There is always something.

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8 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

 

Which season was it that something happened that was questioned that allowed LH to win the WC title that would have gone to someone else?

And wasn't there a season where he won by the skin of his teeth because of some rain or another questionable incident. Maybe they were the same. It was a while back.

There is always something.

He would have another one but brain farted and lost by a point to Kimi for an overly hot pit entrance if I recall correctly which is a tall ask on a Friday.

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It occurred to me while watching practice last night that if you have a “solid” driver who can be trusted to follow instructions the new engine rules offer some real possibilities.  The commentators all agreed last night that short of people running off track the only overtaking option on this track is corner 1.

So if you turn your engine up to 10.5  for the weekend but set the change light 500rpm early as a guide for “normal running”.  A driver that can be trusted not to use it unnecessarily can have an advantage in qualifying and then drive smart for a good result and have that little bit in reserve if needed to defend or attack.

Question is can any of the drivers be trusted not to get lost in the red mist?

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and when it really matters, it's LH as usual...

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7 hours ago, b green said:

pole and lock out....but what a track, bet all the cars do not finish this race

Definitely, gravel right up to the edge and minimal overtaking locations we’re going to see cars needing to be towed off the beach.

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As always I'm hoping for enough rain so it becomes a race instead of a tire nursing, fuel sipping, offtrack curb riding, blue flag passing, safety car running, fanboi and team principal whining, only the pit stop strategy counts, parade. 

The gravel traps do make for a nice wildcard at Mugello.  

Will check the results in the morning.  Zzzzzzz. 

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I got P3, but I could NOT find qualifying on Xfinity cable???

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5 hours ago, billy backstay said:

I got P3, but I could NOT find qualifying on Xfinity cable???

Don’t waste your time.  Nothing exciting happened.  Anticlimactic given only 3 drivers managed a second time in q3 due to yellow flag, although that did help Hamilton take pole and Leclerc 5th.

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Classic case of what we were discussing earlier this week.  Team Renault driver Oscar Piastri has just won the F3 championship in his first season.  Winning F3 means you’re not allowed to compete in the class next year so he is going to need his sponsors to chip in more cash to step him up to F2.  Let’s say he wins F2 next year and Ocon still isn’t beating his team mate.  If you win Formula Renault, F3 then F2 in consecutive  years you’ve clearly got skills.  Do you accept the obvious seat at Alpine in 2022 or hope someone else comes knocking?

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5 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Don’t waste your time.  Nothing exciting happened.  Anticlimactic given only 3 drivers managed a second time in q3 due to yellow flag, although that did help Hamilton take pole and Leclerc 5th.

I disagree It was one of the most interesting quali's in a while with Bottas who had topped the charts all weekend finally succumbing to Lewis's relentless improvement in Q2 and losing out by a few thousandths. In Q2, in the midfield less than a tenth separated 6 or 7 cars. For the final run in Q3 the track had changed and no one improved. There were 5 or 6  cars that were unaffected by Ocon's off but none improved. Bottas was flying though and might have had a shot. Had he been out ahead of the pack as Lewis had.

Not sure what the race will bring lots of talks about processions  but who knows. 

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Well that was "interesting". As was predicted Mugello was fairly unforgiving.

Cream will always rise to the top

 

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Hamilton just benefits from having superior equipment. He isn’t really that good. Look at how much better Bottas does with the same equipment. 
 

wait. Um...  purple font. 

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Took a couple of pages out of NASCAR methods this week.  

Hooray for Albon, hopefully he gets his stoke back. 

On to the next circus stop.  

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crazy race...

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Yea Sol and look what he did on the second to last lap....Hammer time is better than party mode....another fastest lap....he is just that much better (and Bottas knows it)

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Hamilton just benefits from having superior equipment. He isn’t really that good. Look at how much better Bottas does with the same equipment. 
 

wait. Um...  purple font. 

He’s better than bottas

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 7:22 AM, b green said:

pole and lock out....but what a track, bet all the cars do not finish this race

You had the gift of prophecy with this mate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And no stinky boot champagne for smilin Dan. 

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10 hours ago, footlong said:

He’s better than bottas

 

That’s what I’m saying. Bottas has the same equipment and he is nowhere near challenging Hamilton. 

Hamilton is better than everyone on the track and the only one close to him is Max, now that he has outgrown his youthful exuberance. He’s the best driver and has the best car. How lucky are we to get to watch that?

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That’s what I’m saying. Bottas has the same equipment and he is nowhere near challenging Hamilton. 

Hamilton is better than everyone on the track and the only one close to him is Max, now that he has outgrown his youthful exuberance. He’s the best driver and has the best car. How lucky are we to get to watch that?

The Mercedes is better than any other F1 car, and Hamilton is better than Bottas. 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

How lucky are we to get to watch that?

Not as lucky as we'd be if the Merc wasn't so much faster.  Imagine if the Renault, red bull, and merc were all similar speeds and we could watch Max, Daniel, and Lewis fight on a levelish playing field.  Fuck ferrari.

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8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Not as lucky as we'd be if the Merc wasn't so much faster.  Imagine if the Renault, red bull, and merc were all similar speeds and we could watch Max, Daniel, and Lewis fight on a levelish playing field.  Fuck ferrari.

Yep.  Amazing how Merc walked away from the field 3 times in a row, even with a bad first start from Lewis and bad 3rd start from Bottas.  

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Not as lucky as we'd be if the Merc wasn't so much faster.  Imagine if the Renault, red bull, and merc were all similar speeds and we could watch Max, Daniel, and Lewis fight on a levelish playing field.  Fuck ferrari.

That would be entertaining, but it isn't Formula One Design, it's Formula One. I read Toto's comments on that somewhere.  His take is that this is supposed to be sport, not entertainment. Sport is entertaining, but what is the primary goal, to achieve or to entertain? 

Put all those guys in identical cars and the only one that gets close to Lewis is Max, if he doesn't blow it up or wreck it. 

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10 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That would be entertaining, but it isn't Formula One Design, it's Formula One. I read Toto's comments on that somewhere.  His take is that this is supposed to be sport, not entertainment. Sport is entertaining, but what is the primary goal, to achieve or to entertain? 

Put all those guys in identical cars and the only one that gets close to Lewis is Max, if he doesn't blow it up or wreck it. 

Maybe, maybe not.  If Vettel and Schumacher taught us anything, it's that there's a union between certain cars and certain drivers that allows them to become almost unbeatable.

Not that I ever want to watch another IROC race.

I'm not decrying the development race; that's why I watch F1.  But dominance for this many years ain't good for the series.  I don't envy the FIA.

 

 

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Maybe, maybe not.  Not that I ever want to watch another IROC race.

I'm not decrying the development race; that's why I watch F1.  But dominance for this many years ain't good for the series.  I don't envy the FIA.

 

 

Why did Ferrari get spanked last year, when they had been so competitive? Has there been any explanation or is everyone still being tight lipped about it? 

Red Bull shows signs of competing, when Max finishes. I don' t know enough about it to know whether to look at Max for that or Honda, though there are three other guys using Honda power that get to the finish on the regular, right? 

IROC... nah.  Wrong car.  It needs to be something that makes old fat board members' assholes clench when they wreck. How about...Mercedes supplies 5 identical AMG GT Rs for race weekends that are followed by a weekend off, prior to the next event. After the F1 race, either the same day or the following day, the three drivers on the podium are joined by two drivers chosen at random (or fan choice), to duke it out in identical gear for a few laps, with the grid set in inverse order of the F1 finish. 

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look at the progress F1 has brought to auto manufacturing ....up to the hybrid era. This is evolution even if we can not see parity now, small thing make up a total sum. The others will catch up only to have others serge ahead, been going on forever. Meanwhile the drivers who risk their lives live forever in sports halls and memories. We are indeed lucky to see great sport.

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Maybe, maybe not.  If Vettel and Schumacher taught us anything, it's that there's a union between certain cars and certain drivers that allows them to become almost unbeatable.

Not that I ever want to watch another IROC race.

I'm not decrying the development race; that's why I watch F1.  But dominance for this many years ain't good for the series.  I don't envy the FIA.

 

 

I’ll buy into this. Drivers have car characteristics that suit them. Particularly when that differs from what their partner prefers, they can find themselves with a car that doesn’t match their driving style (Kimi).  
 

I like a car with no understeer and just a bit of oversteer at the limit. Old (901 series) 911’s and I got along fine with some camber and toe to accentuate turn in and a bit of tail wag. Lift the throttle to break the rear loose and then back on to catch it once the car rotated into the turn. It got me several Auto cross season trophies back in the day.  With a FWD car, the understeer is really a problem other than a modified mini some friends and I built in HS with racing slicks. I think you could roll that thing over before it would break loose but was certainly nimble. 

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Exactly.  Now add in the possibility that one driver has a great rapport with the designer, or one driver is there when the precursor car is designed and has a lot of input into it and the other one isn't signed until later.  These are all reasons why one driver might be faster than the other despite the other being a faster driver in another series or on another team.

That being said, and despite having had a dog born in May 1994 who I named Senna, I think Lewis is the GOAT.

 

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6 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Why did Ferrari get spanked last year, when they had been so competitive? Has there been any explanation or is everyone still being tight lipped about it? 

Because Ferrari’s F1 team is run by idiots.

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31 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That being said, and despite having had a dog born in May 1994 who I named Senna, I think Lewis is the GOAT. 

He surely is going to hold all records soon. Can't go wrong with any pick between him, Senna and Schuhmacher imo.

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9 hours ago, b green said:

look at the progress F1 has brought to auto manufacturing ....up to the hybrid era. This is evolution even if we can not see parity now, small thing make up a total sum. The others will catch up only to have others serge ahead, been going on forever. Meanwhile the drivers who risk their lives live forever in sports halls and memories. We are indeed lucky to see great sport.

Gee, there is nothing that F1 has brought to my Wheelchair Lift Van that I can think of.
If F1 really cared, they would ask the Auto Mfg's to tune their cars down so accidents were not so horrific.

F1 is about Racing and that is all I care about. If LH and all the Prima Donnas actually gave a shit about anything, we might actually see a "Sea Change".
In the mean time, they will all retire in luxury and suck on some pussy and throw it away.

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3 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

Gee, there is nothing that F1 has brought to my Wheelchair Lift Van that I can think of.

stuff on your van from F1

disc brakes

steel brakes

anti-lock brakes

modern direct fuel injection (came from aircraft, first used in a gas engine in a merc f1 car

stuff from F1 not on your car but on other peoples cars

Carbon monocoque

paddle shifters

active suspension

KERS (used across hybrids and EVs)

and more

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16 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That’s what I’m saying. Bottas has the same equipment and he is nowhere near challenging Hamilton. 

Hamilton is better than everyone on the track and the only one close to him is Max, now that he has outgrown his youthful exuberance. He’s the best driver and has the best car. How lucky are we to get to watch that?

Bottas is fine for this year and 2021 because the rules mean that no-one will be making any big breakthroughs design wise and if Hamilton has an off day, he's good enough to beat the field given the current status quo.  But Merc can't risk carrying him into 2022, with the new rules coming in 2022 there is a chance someone will either level the playing field or even come out a step ahead. 

Mercedes really need to see Williams pick up enough to let Russel consistently run in the pack.  He's shown he can qualify but can he race?  Latifi is unlikely to be ready in 18 months and Ocon is starting to look like he's B+ at best.  

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On 9/14/2020 at 8:23 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

Maybe, maybe not.  If Vettel and Schumacher taught us anything, it's that there's a union between certain cars and certain drivers that allows them to become almost unbeatable.

Not that I ever want to watch another IROC race.

I'm not decrying the development race; that's why I watch F1.  But dominance for this many years ain't good for the series.  I don't envy the FIA.

 

 

I want to watch another IROC race, but in the proper context.porsche-911-carrera--5.jpg

BMW-M1-Procar-orginal.jpg.asset.15625954

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18 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

stuff on your van from F1

disc brakes

steel brakes

anti-lock brakes

modern direct fuel injection (came from aircraft, first used in a gas engine in a merc f1 car

stuff from F1 not on your car but on other peoples cars

Carbon monocoque

paddle shifters

active suspension

KERS (used across hybrids and EVs)

and more

Disc brakes were invented in the early 1900s, and we’re first used successfully on Jaguar sports racing cars

steel brakes?

anti lock brakes are a road car design, I don’t think they have ever been legal in F1

direct fuel injection invented in the 20’s.first use in F1 in a Mercedes sports racing car..

carbon tub came from aero space.

paddle shifters ..John Barnard F1

active suspension..AP we’re developing for road cars but gave up and gave it to Patrick Head..

kers and regen..developed for road cars and we’re banned in F1 for a while..


 

 

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5 hours ago, ro! said:

anti lock brakes are a road car design, I don’t think they have ever been legal in F1

Abs was legal in f1 until the 1993 season. Starting that season they banned ABS, traction control & active suspension, because they made driving easier and safer.

 

active suspension road cars are decades old

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On 9/14/2020 at 5:59 PM, Meat Wad said:

Gee, there is nothing that F1 has brought to my Wheelchair Lift Van that I can think of.
If F1 really cared, they would ask the Auto Mfg's to tune their cars down so accidents were not so horrific.

 

On 9/14/2020 at 6:54 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

stuff on your van from F1

disc brakes

steel brakes

anti-lock brakes

modern direct fuel injection (came from aircraft, first used in a gas engine in a merc f1 car

stuff from F1 not on your car but on other peoples cars

Carbon monocoque

paddle shifters

active suspension

KERS (used across hybrids and EVs)

and more

5 hours ago, ro! said:

Disc brakes were invented in the early 1900s, and we’re first used successfully on Jaguar sports racing cars

steel brakes?

anti lock brakes are a road car design, I don’t think they have ever been legal in F1

direct fuel injection invented in the 20’s.first use in F1 in a Mercedes sports racing car..

carbon tub came from aero space.

paddle shifters ..John Barnard F1

active suspension..AP we’re developing for road cars but gave up and gave it to Patrick Head..

kers and regen..developed for road cars and we’re banned in F1 for a while..

 

 

RO! thanks for clearing it up, Saved me some time researching the stuff. Clean pretends to be really smart.  As he is an attorney, I wonder why he did not comment on my thought of tuning down cars so accidents weren't so horrific. But that would be bad for attorneys, at least in the USA.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

 

RO! thanks for clearing it up, Saved me some time researching the stuff. Clean pretends to be really smart.  As he is an attorney, I wonder why he did not comment on my thought of tuning down cars so accidents weren't so horrific. But that would be bad for attorneys, at least in the USA.

 

 

maybe they could just tune down the ambulances, the attorneys would be keen on that.

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11 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

 

RO! thanks for clearing it up, Saved me some time researching the stuff. Clean pretends to be really smart.  As he is an attorney, I wonder why he did not comment on my thought of tuning down cars so accidents weren't so horrific. But that would be bad for attorneys, at least in the USA.

 

 

ro doesn't know how to research and can't read.  example: I wrote gas direct injection, he references diesel.   not worth bothering after I see the first lie.

I don't comment when you say things about law because arguing with a child hurts my brain

 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

ro doesn't know how to research and can't read.  example: I wrote gas direct injection, he references diesel.   not worth bothering after I see the first lie.

I don't comment when you say things about law because arguing with a child hurts my brain

 

clean doing his bully boy bullshitter trump impression again..

I didn’t need to do research because it was in my head and I didn’t reference diesels...but a little research shows the first PDI(petrol direct injection system) was introduced in Germany in 1925.. Bosch produced a mechanical PDI system in the 50s which was used by Mercedes in its F1 and sports racing cars..

there is very little in F1 that wasn’t first used in Auto, Aviation or Aerospace industries..

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1 hour ago, ro! said:

 

I didn’t need to do research because it was in my head

And I'm the trumpy bullshitter. mmmhmm.  you have the very best head.  

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19 hours ago, ro! said:

Disc brakes were invented in the early 1900s, and we’re first used successfully on Jaguar sports racing cars

steel brakes?

anti lock brakes are a road car design, I don’t think they have ever been legal in F1

direct fuel injection invented in the 20’s.first use in F1 in a Mercedes sports racing car..

carbon tub came from aero space.

paddle shifters ..John Barnard F1

active suspension..AP we’re developing for road cars but gave up and gave it to Patrick Head..

kers and regen..developed for road cars and we’re banned in F1 for a while..


 

 

Shhhh!  He’s on a roll! 

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Disc brakes and anti-lock systems were developed for airplanes, initially

 

 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

And I'm the trumpy bullshitter. mmmhmm.  you have the very best head.  

It must come as a surprise to a numpty like you that someone would have PDI facts in his head...

if you have the facts use the facts,  if you have the law use the law, if you have neither..use bullshit and bluster...

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