Shortforbob

Ukraine aircraft down in Iran. 176 dead. Technical malfunction

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

OK, I am now in the "That sucks, but at least I hope they didn't intentionally shoot it down knowing it was a passenger plane" camp.

They are certainly not above doing so, but I cannot imagine why they would. This is nothing but bad news for Iran and not especially good news for the USA either. Unless someone really has it in for Canada .......:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, chum said:

you're nuts lady.

So tell me why the master tweeter, the guy who cannot help himself gloating if he thinks he can score a point, no matter how distasteful or untruthful,,tell me why he was completely silent about this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

I'll bet Shitstain is loving this distraction. 

Of course he is, he created it. 

This is not a normal squirrel though, it's squirra godzilla.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

So tell me why the master tweeter, the guy who cannot help himself gloating if he thinks he can score a point, no matter how distasteful or untruthful,,tell me why he was completely silent about this.

maybe he can?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

So tell me why the master tweeter, the guy who cannot help himself gloating if he thinks he can score a point, no matter how distasteful or untruthful,,tell me why he was completely silent about this.

He wasn't.  He talked about it at some event.  He was amazingly restrained and mostly appropriate.  He did say that he knew that it wasn't an accident all along, but probably his intel folks told him that before they went public with it.  

I do think the White House doctor must have adjusted his meds.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

They are certainly not above doing so, but I cannot imagine why they would. This is nothing but bad news for Iran and not especially good news for the USA either. Unless someone really has it in for Canada .......:rolleyes:

Well during the hostage crisis the Canadian embassy did assist 6 American hostages that escaped early on, and hid them for 3 months.

Maybe they were still pissed about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

He wasn't.  He talked about it at some event.  He was amazingly restrained and mostly appropriate.  He did say that he knew that it wasn't an accident all along, but probably his intel folks told him that before they went public with it.  

I do think the White House doctor must have adjusted his meds.  

Saw the same thing.  I was wondering if they gave him a sedative.  He acted human and even presidential.  But then he started rambling on about how "the last administration..." and other claims that made him look perfect, amazing and thankgodwehavethismanatthehelm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Well during the hostage crisis the Canadian embassy did assist 6 American hostages that escaped early on, and hid them for 3 months.

Maybe they were still pissed about that.

Revenge is a dish best served cold???

Seriously, odds are this was a huge cock-up by someone. "What's this button for"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

He wasn't.  He talked about it at some event.  He was amazingly restrained and mostly appropriate.  He did say that he knew that it wasn't an accident all along, but probably his intel folks told him that before they went public with it.  

I do think the White House doctor must have adjusted his meds.  

that was later. At first reporting of the accident he said nothing but this mysterious and cryptic 

All is well? when Iran just launched missiles?

so far so good?

and will be making a statement tomorrow. 

I'd like to know if this was tweeted just before or how long after the plane went down?

All is well! Missiles launched from Iran at two military bases located in Iraq. Assessment of casualties & damages taking place now. So far, so good! We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world, by far! I will be making a statement tomorrow morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Meli here. Trump's authority to take out Soleimani most definitely contributed to the Ukrainian Airlines plane going down.  If the drone strike hadn't happened then neither would the Iranian missile attack response nor tbe plane being accidentally shot out of the sky.

I watched a minute or so of Trump's presser and i recall he was very specific on saying"no Americans or Iraqis were killed in this action". I think he said it twice. Of course he didn't mention the consequential downing of the plane and loss of 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians and other nationalities. 

He and the US Military officials involved in tbe decision most definitely has their blood on their hands. I would hope they feel terrible about that collateral damage. Same for Iranian leadership. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
 
6 hours ago, Fakenews said:

A guy on CNN formerly head investigator from  NTSB said from looking at photos of the various engine bits and footage of the plane going down that it overwhelmingly likely that the plane went down due to mechanical issues.

What the actual fuck?     As a completely outside observer that comes off as bullshit - the debris field is massive - planes that have mechanical issues tend to come down largely intact - this thing came apart in flight.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I have had more than one engine failure and I always managed to get off a Mayday and set the transponder. You want all the airspace cleared and all the help you can get. The odds of this being an engine failure are IMHO very low. I am not speculating as to what actually did happen, there are a lot of possibilities. Once again, the odds someone wanted to piss off Ukraine, Boeing, and Canada are also low, so my guess for now is a colossal fuck-up by someone.

Add in that with the 737 they have demonstrated the ability fly on one engine many times and they need do so for ETOPS capability..  Also, these engine a contained in a ballistic shroud to keep the blast contained should it happen...  Take a look at SWA Flight 1380 where the engine went "ka pooey" and they still got the plane on the ground..It would have had to have been a one hell of a catastrophic engine failure to cause to plane to break up like that..

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am not clear what you are referencing.

Sorry.  I was agreeing with you, but in a hurry to leave the house.

Anyone seen this yet?  Purportedly, the missile strike.  We'll see if confirmed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The New York Times has obtained video of the moment a Ukrainian airliner was hit minutes after takeoff from Tehran.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

 

The Iranians have riot police at crash site which is being cleared with bulldozers.

Does anyone expect the Islamic regime to be honest with this?

They claimed to have killed over 80 wounded over 200 with missile strikes on air bases even showed pics of Americans being treated in hospital. These pics are from 2007 in Iraq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

no wonder he was so bloody quiet about it.

If this was indeed shot down by Iran fearing it was another attack in this tit for tat war started by Trump. He really does have the blood of 179 people on his hands.

What a load of Crap   The desperate need to blame everything on Trump and in turn the US is getting old.  How about the Iranians shooting down our 100 million dollar drone or the contractor they killed or the tankers they blew up or the Saudi Oil field attack or the embassy attack?

If this plane was shot down I have no doubt it was a tragic accident, in that I do not believe the Iranians deliberately targeted a civilian Airliner.  Most likely a trigger happy Iranian expecting a US attack that was non existent. An expected attack based on the fact that they had just launched missiles at Americans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

 

The Iranians have riot police at crash site which is being cleared with bulldozers.

Does anyone expect the Islamic regime to be honest with this?

They claimed to have killed over 80 wounded over 200 with missile strikes on air bases even showed pics of Americans being treated in hospital. These pics are from 2007 in Iraq.

Looks like the NYTimes is monitoring #PS752 for information.  "Obtained" and "verified."  Man, they suck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"WARNING" "This is a warning to Iranian employees of Farsi-language media outlets to not participate in the psychological warfare regarding the Ukrainian plane & refrain from collaborating in Iranophobia.

Quote is translation of bottom pic

ir bullshit.jpg

irb5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Riot police on guard bulldozers clearing crash site.

 

irbull.jpg

irbull2.jpg

iriot.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Highly likely' Iran shot down Ukrainian airliner: US official

U.S. intelligence is confident Iran painted the plane with radar before firing.

It's "highly likely" the Ukrainian passenger plane that crashed Wednesday morning in Iran, killing all 176 on board, was shot down by Iran, a U.S. official told ABC News.

U.S. intelligence is confident that Iran painted the Ukrainian airliner with radar and fired two surface-to-air missiles that brought down the aircraft, a U.S. official told ABC News. The official said that an American satellite had detected the heat signature of the two missiles as they approached the airliner.

The same assessment was made by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/highly-iran-shot-ukrainian-airliner-us-official-confirms/story?id=68173173

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:
8 hours ago, jzk said:

What about it?  Steam said he was there and it was no accident that the US took out an airliner full of civilians.  

HEY DUMBFUCK... LEARN TO READ!

"Accident" in the sense that someone put their coffee on the launch button and "accident" in the sense they didn't know it was a civilian airplane are <  >  ;)

I never said I was there. I was aboard a different ship operating in that same area within a few months of when it occured.

1- there was a shooting war between Iran and Iraq going on at the time

2- Both Iranian and Iraqi military planes had a habit of trying to use US ships to practice on

3- Several times I observed myself, civilian aircraft dove towards military ships.

The ship I was did not have AAW suite as powerful as the VIncennes but it was quite a capable AAW ship. Rarely did a day go by without going hot on some aircraft, and dozens of times we ran missiles out on the rail and were ready to launch any second. I was glad to have a skipper ready to take steps to protect the ship and my tender young self. If I'd been aboard the VINCENNES I'd feel the same way. This last point is in dispute but was universally accepted at the time, that Iranian civilian airliner was diving at the ship when shot down.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now on the news- US intel says they "have confidence" that the Canadian airliner was struck by two Iranian missiles. This is from SIGINT and satellite video

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Just now on the news- US intel says they "have confidence" that the Canadian airliner was struck by two Iranian missiles. This is from SIGINT and satellite video

- DSK

It was a Ukrainian Boeing 737, not Canadian.

If it were an accidental shootdown, which is quite likely because Iran had held civilian flights and I believe this was the first to take off that morning, then that was unforeseen collateral damage that both Trump and the Ayatollah can take responsibility for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, bhyde said:

"Even a catastrophic engine failure – a possibility originally mooted by the Ukrainian authorities but then withdrawn – would be highly unlikely to have such a dramatic effect on control of the aircraft," he said.

You may want to make quick review of Flight 191, Chicago 1989.

ohare-plane-crash.jpg?w=446

Engine and engine related equipment are more than capable of rendering an aircraft uncontrollable. United 232 is another example, although they managed to hit the ground in a semi controlled fashion. There are hundreds of examples of aircraft crashing quickly and dramatically because engine explode, catch fire, rip off the wing, etc.

He's a fucking idiot.

A buddy of mine was delivering pizzas when that happened and it crashed right next to his car. I think he said it was a DC-10.

I think this was a major mistake both on the aircraft being cleared to take off and the jackwagon who hit the launch button on the missles.

Thoughts of peace to those who perished and their families.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump.  The eloquence:

Trump on Ukrainian plane crash: 'It was flying in a pretty rough neighbourhood'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am a commercial pilot. An engine failure that takes out the transponder and all radios instantly is not a thing. FYI

I'm not asserting that an engine failure can take out the transponder or comm. Only that an engine failure is more than capable of bringing an aircraft down in dramatic fashion. Other examples of planes blowing up mid flight aren't too hard to find like TWA 800. Although, missiles are pretty good at that too. I hope that is not the case. That would be a galactic fuck up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regime is lying full speed ahead now. It’s reminicent of Baghdad Bob saying there were no Americans outside.

 It’s hard to imagine mistaking a lumbering commercial jet on climbout (200 kts?) for a fighter on a combat mission at 500 to 1000+ kts. Fear and fog of war I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, chum said:

Regime is lying full speed ahead now. It’s reminicent of Baghdad Bob saying there were no Americans outside.

 

When you see the lies exposed over the face saving attack and now the lies about this plane it would make a reasonable person question whether they were complying with any nuclear deal.

Chamberlain appeased Hitler how many did he kill?

Obama appeased the Islamic regime allowing Soleimani to kill hundreds of thousands in Iran and across the middle east

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see those with TDS are trying to blame Trump for this shooting down of a civilian plane.

This was not a tit for tat exchange the US never attacked Iran Soleimani was killed in Iraq along with an Iraqi backed by the Islamic regime. What did the Iraqis do in response to killing an Iraqi in the very same attack that killed Soleimani was it zero zip zilch?

Iran has attacked Iraq with ballistic missiles the US did not respond to that attack. If Trump really wanted war he would have responded to this missile attack from Iran

Over 50 killed in a stampede along with innocent victims on this plane, how many more people should we tolerate Khamenei killing so he can "Save face" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bloomberg thumbnail on YouTube is “UK Agrees that Ukraine Jet was shot down by Iran”

other headlines are “Trudeau says...” and “Canada PM...”.    I think the internet thinks the US government has a credibility problem,   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lark said:

The Bloomberg thumbnail on YouTube is “UK Agrees that Ukraine Jet was shot down by Iran”

other headlines are “Trudeau says...” and “Canada PM...”.    I think the internet thinks the US government has a credibility problem,   

Post 124 has interview with Trudeau saying evidence shows plane shot down by Iran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

When you see the lies exposed over the face saving attack and now the lies about this plane it would make a reasonable person question whether they were complying with any nuclear deal.

Chamberlain appeased Hitler how many did he kill?

Obama appeased the Islamic regime allowing Soleimani to kill hundreds of thousands in Iran and across the middle east

England did declare war on Hitler while Chamberlain was still prime minister.  I’m waiting for Trump to use that little gem....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

trump says he has suspicions about the shoot down of the Ukrainian airliner, but.....‘I don’t want to say that’...:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

no wonder he was so bloody quiet about it.

If this was indeed shot down by Iran fearing it was another attack in this tit for tat war started by Trump. He really does have the blood of 179 people on his hands.

Iran shoots down airliner just after firing missiles at US airbases.  Trump's fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Iran shoots down airliner just after firing missiles at US airbases.  Trump's fault.

The probability is extremely high that the people on that aircraft would still be alive today if Trump had not ordered the assassination of Soleimani.  The moral here is that doing stupid things (assassinating foreign leaders) sometimes has unintended consequences.  

The public deserves to know what the evidence was against Soleimani.  Carrying out assassinations of foreign citizens invites retaliation in kind no matter how much the government may try to paint him as a bad actor.  One can imagine that travelling US citizens will once again be pretending to be Canadian.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure seems like a mistake was made, and probably right now a 22 y/o Iranian is either crying his eyes out in remorse, or being beaten by his superiors. None of that will solve the issue.

 Trump instigated an action, and retaliation occurred, and there was a mistake. Now we have to move forward to try to make sure this doesn't happen too often in the near future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Post 124 has interview with Trudeau saying evidence shows plane shot down by Iran

I’m not used to American news quoting foreign leaders on current events.    You’ve hung around here long enough no notice nobody listens to anybody else.   Between Trump publicly disbelieving the US intelligence agencies and Trump spreading lies, the news agencies seem to be branching out and looking for less controversial sources of information.   Of course Trump’s most extreme supporters around here also seem to hate Trudeau, so it won’t help much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trudeau looks better w/o the beard...... Just sayin'......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

I see those with TDS are trying to blame Trump for this shooting down of a civilian plane.

This was not a tit for tat exchange the US never attacked Iran Soleimani was killed in Iraq along with an Iraqi backed by the Islamic regime. What did the Iraqis do in response to killing an Iraqi in the very same attack that killed Soleimani was it zero zip zilch?

Iran has attacked Iraq with ballistic missiles the US did not respond to that attack. If Trump really wanted war he would have responded to this missile attack from Iran

Over 50 killed in a stampede along with innocent victims on this plane, how many more people should we tolerate Khamenei killing so he can "Save face" ?

Who's "We" homeboy?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Trudeau looks better w/o the beard...... Just sayin'......

He's trying for some gravitas. Or, he's going to go full Fidel.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

It sure seems like a mistake was made, and probably right now a 22 y/o Iranian is either crying his eyes out in remorse, or being beaten by his superiors. None of that will solve the issue.

 Trump instigated an action, and retaliation occurred, and there was a mistake. Now we have to move forward to try to make sure this doesn't happen too often in the near future.

 

The 2 22 year old Iranians who fired the missiles, unfortunately for them, are possibly already dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So 176 killed, and at

$ 213,103.45 per that means a pay out for Iran of

$ 37,506,307.20. Plus the price of the plane at say $ 30 million,  so just under 70 million. A drop in the bucket really. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

The 2 22 year old Iranians who fired the missiles, unfortunately for them, are possibly already dead.

There are 176 people that have passed. All the people responsible for their deaths are very much alive. The leaders of USA, and Iran.

Tragedy of power. 

Amazing that citizens support those people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Trump.  The eloquence:

Trump on Ukrainian plane crash: 'It was flying in a pretty rough neighbourhood'

you made that up. please say you made that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

you made that up. please say you made that up.

As real as real can be.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-on-ukrainian-plane-crash-it-was-flying-in-a-pretty-rough-neighbourhood-1.4135169

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

"NATOME - I'm  really good at names"

:lol::lol::lol: YCMTSU - and he's POTUS. Please do the world a favour and either impeach his fat orange ass or vote him out in November.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:
35 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

you made that up. please say you made that up.

As real as real can be.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-on-ukrainian-plane-crash-it-was-flying-in-a-pretty-rough-neighbourhood-1.4135169

 

Can someone suggest what they think Trump should have said that doesn't inflame tensions between the US and Khamenei who launched a missile attack just to " save face" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

 

Can someone suggest what they think Trump should have said that doesn't inflame tensions between the US and Khamenei who launched a missile attack just to " save face" ?

When you light a fire, it can burn out of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The modern AA systems have to be handled by heavily and recurring heavily trained pros. In particular the Russian systems have a terrible record if nailing civies by accident. 

  The 93 Georgia incident, the 2014 Malaysia incident in the Ukraine, and now this, are all of the same elk IMO. 

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Al Paca said:

So 176 killed, and at

$ 213,103.45 per that means a pay out for Iran of

$ 37,506,307.20. Plus the price of the plane at say $ 30 million,  so just under 70 million. A drop in the bucket really. 

That’ll cut into the 80 million bounty.......crowdsourcing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, hasher said:

When you light a fire, it can burn out of control.

Yep like killing Americans and shooting down an American drone.   Like attacking Saudi oil fields and bombing tankers.   Iran has been playing with matches for years.  Trump warned them about killing any more Americans.  They crossed that line and rather than killing a bunch of grunts he took out the number two guy, who was also on the terror list.   
When Iran launched their fireworks,  to save face he played it cool and didn’t respond.  Once again the left looked foolish with their claims that he wanted a war.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Yep like killing Americans and shooting down an American drone.   Like attacking Saudi oil fields and bombing tankers.   Iran has been playing with matches for years.  Trump warned them about killing any more Americans.  They crossed that line and rather than killing a bunch of grunts he took out the number two guy, who was also on the terror list.   
When Iran launched their fireworks,  to save face he played it cool and didn’t respond.  Once again the left looked foolish with their claims that he wanted a war.  

Joke,

When you rap a rope around the neck of a population, they might feel a need to act.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Amati said:

That’ll cut into the 80 million bounty.......crowdsourcing?

Hell, that's one season at Mar-a-Liar, not counting the membership fees,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Joker said:

Yep like killing Americans and shooting down an American drone.   Like attacking Saudi oil fields and bombing tankers.   Iran has been playing with matches for years.  Trump warned them about killing any more Americans.  They crossed that line and rather than killing a bunch of grunts he took out the number two guy, who was also on the terror list.   
When Iran launched their fireworks,  to save face he played it cool and didn’t respond.  Once again the left looked foolish with their claims that he wanted a war.  

Or Iran learned how empty his threats are-  it looks like Iran was expecting some sort of Military response to the ballistic missiles, which would explain the shoot down.  The Iranians got some sort of response all right, but not what they expected?  Especially after Trumps new year tirade, which was, in Trump’s words, a threat:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-iran-attack-twitter-ali-khamenei-embassy-baghdad-kuwait-a9266286.html%3famp

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, chum said:

maybe he can?

That is worthy of a Mutt like level of incomprehension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Joker said:

What a load of Crap   The desperate need to blame everything on Trump and in turn the US is getting old.  How about the Iranians shooting down our 100 million dollar drone or the contractor they killed or the tankers they blew up or the Saudi Oil field attack or the embassy attack?

If this plane was shot down I have no doubt it was a tragic accident, in that I do not believe the Iranians deliberately targeted a civilian Airliner.  Most likely a trigger happy Iranian expecting a US attack that was non existent. An expected attack based on the fact that they had just launched missiles at Americans.

Yeah - the shitstain had nothing to do with it.

Stop being unfair - so unfair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jzk said:

Iran shoots down airliner just after firing missiles at US airbases.  Trump's fault.

Yeah, kind of like blaming the guy who started that harmless little campfire for the whole forest going up in flames.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, bhyde said:

I'm not asserting that an engine failure can take out the transponder or comm. Only that an engine failure is more than capable of bringing an aircraft down in dramatic fashion. Other examples of planes blowing up mid flight aren't too hard to find like TWA 800. Although, missiles are pretty good at that too. I hope that is not the case. That would be a galactic fuck up.

TWA 800's center fuel tank spontaneously exploded, as 747's frequently do, causing what noted safety investigators at the CIA termed a "zoom climb" that was mistaken for a missile by numerous observers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
6 hours ago, hasher said:

Joke,

 When you rap a rope around the neck of a population, they might feel a need to act.

I don’t often agree with the jokester, but in this case he’s correct. Iran has been provoking a response now for months if not years. I think the Iranian regime shockingly just learned where the red line was. 
 

and BTW - it’s ‘wrap’, unless you were referring to that well known hip hop song about hemp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jules said:

Yeah, kind of like blaming the guy who started that harmless little campfire for the whole forest going up in flames.

Only in clownland.  Trump didn't invade Iraq.  Trump took office with troops in Iraq.  Iran has been attacking them largely via the good general.  He took out the general in defense of this country.

Anything else would have been ridiculous.  Hillary would have taken him out in a heartbeat.  That the dems are putting their Trump derangement syndrome in front of the security of US troops is obscene.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jules said:

Yeah, kind of like blaming the guy who started that harmless little campfire for the whole forest going up in flames.

But when did this campfire start?   
With the fall of the Ottoman Empire?

In the 50’s when  England orchestrated the over throw in Iran

In the 70’s with the rise of the Ayatollah and the seizing of the US embassy?

In the 80’s with Iran Iraq war?

In the 90’s with the rise of radical terrorism?

i could go on, but the point being plenty of campfires have led to flare ups  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, The Joker said:
3 hours ago, Jules said:

Yeah, kind of like blaming the guy who started that harmless little campfire for the whole forest going up in flames.

But when did this campfire start?   
With the fall of the Ottoman Empire?

In the 50’s when  England orchestrated the over throw in Iran

In the 70’s with the rise of the Ayatollah and the seizing of the US embassy?

In the 80’s with Iran Iraq war?

In the 90’s with the rise of radical terrorism?

i could go on, but the point being plenty of campfires have led to flare ups  

Oo-o it's so tingly being in the presence of a mighty expert on all this history n'shit

The 90s was when "radical terrorism" rose? WTF was Reagan talking about, having a "war on terrorism" then? For that matter, where does the word "thug" come from? The word "assassin"?

What happened to "don't trust the government"... oh that's only when it's Democrats.

fascist dumbass

- DSK

[edited to remove reference to Persia/Ottoman Empire since MJ beat me to it]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

:lol: Iran was never part of the Ottoman Empire, and the US orchestrated the coup in the 50s. Radical terrorism rose well before the 90s, but other than that :lol:

Your knowledge of history is outstanding.  That alone is the case for not defending our troops that are being killed by Iran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jzk said:

Your knowledge of history is outstanding.  That alone is the case for not defending our troops that are being killed by Iran.

Your knowledge of pretty much everything is lacking.

Now, didn't Trump promise to end the Middle East wars and bring the troops home? I know he lies a lot and his promises are worth less than a boot full of piss that you'd like to pour out but don't know how... but if he'd done what he said ("promises made, promises kept") then this would not be happening.

Also, if you actually held some principles instead of being a drooling cheerleader for whatever nonsense Trump squirts in your ear, you would not be in favor of our government committing murder.

- DSK

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Your knowledge of pretty much everything is lacking.

Now, didn't Trump promise to end the Middle East wars and bring the troops home? I know he lies a lot and his promises are worth less than a boot full of piss that you'd like to pour out but don't know how... but if he'd done what he said ("promises made, promises kept") then this would not be happening.

Also, if you actually held some principles instead of being a drooling cheerleader for whatever nonsense Trump squirts in your ear, you would not be in favor of our government committing murder.

- DSK

Don't forget he tasked his top diplomat Jarred to bring peace to the ME.  Haven't heard much from that boy lately, I wonder of his father in law took away his portfolio.

Maybe Ivanka was feeling neglected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Don't forget he tasked his top diplomat Jarred to bring peace to the ME.  Haven't heard much from that boy lately, I wonder of his father in law took away his portfolio.

Maybe Ivanka was feeling neglected.

she's a senior adviser, this is her big chance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Iran has been provoking a response now for months if not years. I think the Iranian regime shockingly just learned where the red line was. 

The shirtless tire-chucker had been provoking a response for many steps, with his fists clenched, before he shockingly learned just where Jeffie's red line was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Joker said:

But when did this campfire start?   

The campfire was staying inside the fire ring thanks to a hard won multi-national agreement. Then your hero kicked away the fire ring and replaced it with crippling sanctions. Since you are showing off your grasp of history, please comment on the effect crippling sanctions had on Germany and Japan in the leadup to WWII. Or the fantastic successes of crippling sanctions in bringing glorious results elsewhere: NK, Cuba, etc. etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obama convinced Iran to put a berm around their fire and keep it small to medium. Trump kicked the berm over, dumped 10 gallons of gas on the fire, and acts surprised the whole forest looks ready to go up. Meanwhile some tourists already got burned up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Obama convinced Iran to put a berm around their fire and keep it small to medium. Trump kicked the berm over, dumped 10 gallons of gas on the fire, and acts surprised the whole forest looks ready to go up. Meanwhile some tourists already got burned up.

The faithful have now convinced themselves that their Chosen One has "prevented WWIII" by killing a guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jzk said:

Only in clownland.  Trump didn't invade Iraq.  Trump took office with troops in Iraq.  Iran has been attacking them largely via the good general.  He took out the general in defense of this country.

Anything else would have been ridiculous.  Hillary would have taken him out in a heartbeat.  That the dems are putting their Trump derangement syndrome in front of the security of US troops is obscene.  

Not one bit of that exonerates Trump from being indirectly responsible for that plane being shot down. 

And who gives a shit about what Hillary would have done?  She's gone and good riddance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Joker said:

But when did this campfire start?   
With the fall of the Ottoman Empire?

In the 50’s when  England orchestrated the over throw in Iran

In the 70’s with the rise of the Ayatollah and the seizing of the US embassy?

In the 80’s with Iran Iraq war?

In the 90’s with the rise of radical terrorism?

i could go on, but the point being plenty of campfires have led to flare ups 

All a bunch of meaningless misdirects.  The path is easy to follow.  Trump pulls out of the Iran nuclear deal, tensions rise - Trump orders the assassination of an Iranian leader - Iran fires missiles at a U.S. base in retaliation - One missile takes down a passenger plane.

Not one reasonably sane person agreed with Trump pulling out of the nuke deal with Iran.  But he did it anyway.  The guy needs to return to that fly-by-night outfit he used to screw people out of their money all those decades and leave the rest of the world intact. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Bhut her emails!

Sent from the basement of a pizza joint that has no basement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Iran takes the high road (in ME terms, I suppose :huh:) with ballistic missiles, and then blows it Big Time shooting down the plane after the Imam tells Trump on Twitter that he (Trump) can do nothing (although that was kind of a general taunt?) and, after the airfield attack,  Trump did nothing.  
 

Trump makes a threat ( which also was kind of vague) acts on it (after the militias stop fucking with our embassy :wacko:) and then does nothing after the ballistic missiles blow up parts of the airfield up, but apparently kill no one.

Iran is lying about how many people were killed at the airfield, and why the plane went down.  It’s hard to understand what Trump is saying, but he is sending more troops (which I don’t get at all- more targets for the militias?)  and just talking a lot of contradictory bullshit smack?

So what’s changed?  Trump’s freaked?  The Imam’s embarrassed?  Adventurism is slaked?  We’re all entertained?  We’re ignoring Bolton, impeachment, and Duetsche Bank?  For what, one news cycle? The Imam is telling Iranians what they want to hear so they’ll stay in line?  I will say, Trump got the Imam into Trumpian Twitter, something I didn’t expect to see.  And one more time,  everything Trump touches gets fucked up:  Statecraft has turned into personal bickering online, interspersed with semi random violence, while Iranian Puritans get seduced by Social Media. So much winning!
 


 

 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a phone-in show on CBC Ontario this afternoon about the airliner being shot down. I found it quite remarkable that almost all of the callers put a substantial amount of the blame on Trump. I guess just another example of Donald building support among traditional allies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is an actual measured and intelligent response.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-10/mh17-disaster-lesson-for-iran-missile-attack-ukraine-flight/11858628

snip

Accidents do happen

In what is likely a carefully coordinated response, four prime ministers and a President appear to have offered Iran a "get out" clause, applying language that suggests this was probably accidental.

And, yes, accidents do happen.

MH17 was almost certainly not the intended target in 2014.

 

And the US has made mistakes too.

Back in 1988 the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 people, after misidentifying it as a fighter jet.

With the Iranians having just launched missile attacks this week on bases in Iraq housing American troops, Tehran would have been on high alert for a US response.

If a missile battery commander was suddenly presented with an unexpected radar reading just near the airport he may have had seconds to respond.

It shouldn't happen, but these decisions rely on instant analysis and response.

Was it a mistake to fly?

Of course, this would not have happened if Flight PS752 had decided not to fly from Tehran airport in the first place.

Sure, there were ongoing connections to Canada from Kiev to be met, but they were flying in extremely tense airspace.

 

There was time to change plans, but a fateful decision was made to put schedules ahead of prudence.

Some will blame Donald Trump for ratcheting up tensions unnecessarily with the assassination of Iran's top General Qassem Soleimani.

Others will sheet home blame to the Iranian regime for a long history of attacks and proxy provocations throughout the region.

None of which brings back the 176 victims or soothes the unbearable pain of families and loved ones whose lives have been irrevocably changed.

Many Australians know that horror through MH17. This loss will undoubtably trigger deeply painful emotions.

And while charges against four men have been laid over MH17, all these years later, justice has not yet been served.

Likewise, the chance of a swift, comprehensive and honest outcome for all those on Flight PS752 remains remote.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jules said:

All a bunch of meaningless misdirects.  The path is easy to follow.  Trump pulls out of the Iran nuclear deal, tensions rise - Trump orders the assassination of an Iranian leader - Iran fires missiles at a U.S. base in retaliation - One missile takes down a passenger plane.

Not one reasonably sane person agreed with Trump pulling out of the nuke deal with Iran.  But he did it anyway.  The guy needs to return to that fly-by-night outfit he used to screw people out of their money all those decades and leave the rest of the world intact. 

Yep that’s the ticket start with the Nuclear deal and jump right to Trump killed a leader.  Typical how you skip all the Iranian attacks and actions over the last three years and pin it all on Trump.  
 

Not unexpected coming from someone who  thinks it was a ballistic missile that took out the airliner.  
 

As to that leader he was a known terrorist on a mission to kill more people. Obama put him on the list.   
 

TDS on display.  
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Here is an actual measured and intelligent response.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-10/mh17-disaster-lesson-for-iran-missile-attack-ukraine-flight/11858628

snip

Accidents do happen

In what is likely a carefully coordinated response, four prime ministers and a President appear to have offered Iran a "get out" clause, applying language that suggests this was probably accidental.

And, yes, accidents do happen.

MH17 was almost certainly not the intended target in 2014.

 

And the US has made mistakes too.

Back in 1988 the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 people, after misidentifying it as a fighter jet.

With the Iranians having just launched missile attacks this week on bases in Iraq housing American troops, Tehran would have been on high alert for a US response.

If a missile battery commander was suddenly presented with an unexpected radar reading just near the airport he may have had seconds to respond.

It shouldn't happen, but these decisions rely on instant analysis and response.

Was it a mistake to fly?

Of course, this would not have happened if Flight PS752 had decided not to fly from Tehran airport in the first place.

Sure, there were ongoing connections to Canada from Kiev to be met, but they were flying in extremely tense airspace.

 

There was time to change plans, but a fateful decision was made to put schedules ahead of prudence.

Some will blame Donald Trump for ratcheting up tensions unnecessarily with the assassination of Iran's top General Qassem Soleimani.

Others will sheet home blame to the Iranian regime for a long history of attacks and proxy provocations throughout the region.

None of which brings back the 176 victims or soothes the unbearable pain of families and loved ones whose lives have been irrevocably changed.

Many Australians know that horror through MH17. This loss will undoubtably trigger deeply painful emotions.

And while charges against four men have been laid over MH17, all these years later, justice has not yet been served.

Likewise, the chance of a swift, comprehensive and honest outcome for all those on Flight PS752 remains remote.

 

In political terms.....yes. But only in the bent world of bullshit political actions. 
Though last time I checked, shooting someone accidentally normally means you spend some time in a cell, and that’s one person killed or injured. Its called negligent in the real world. 
But shooting down a plane with hundreds of passengers with a SAM is an accident!?? 
 

Basic fucking rule, if you’re not sure of the target or where the projectile will go if you miss!  Don’t fire the fucking thing! 

Fuck me!  We have a fucked up view on things. Bring on global warming as fast as possible and let the human race die off quickly, it’s time for something else to have a go.