Ukraine aircraft down in Iran. 176 dead. Technical malfunction

[Shortforbob 2,005]

Oh Shit. 

Awful..watch someone try to make political mileage out of tragic accident.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/07/middleeast/plane-crash-iran-intl-hnk/index.html

[Alhadder 457]

Meli see the thread re the Iranian missile attack.

[Shortforbob 2,005]

Uh huh.

And from the first mention someone put sinister spin in it.

This thread may sink fast in the scramble to escalate a deadly situation.

This thread remains.

The Ukrainian Embassy in Tehran said it has ruled out terrorism as a cause of the crash and that preliminary information shows it was caused by an engine malfunction. Iran's semi-official news agency ISNA previously reported the crash was due to technical difficulties. Iran's Civil Aviation Authority said it had launched an investigation.

Their plane, their people ,their call.

[Alhadder 457]

Mel - what caused the engine malfunction? The plane had it's last scheduled maintenance service on Monday in Kiev. Ukraine International Airlines also said they are suspending flights to Tehran indefinitely. There were 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainian and others onboard.

I'm sorry something just doesn't smell right to me.

[Shortforbob 2,005]

15 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

Mel - what caused the engine malfunction? The plane had it's last scheduled maintenance service on Monday in Kiev. Ukraine International Airlines also said they are suspending flights to Tehran indefinitely. There were 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainian and others onboard.

I'm sorry something just doesn't smell right to me.

I'd suggest a wait and see. Too often these accidents get run away with. 

If trump gets the flicker of an idea this was aimed at fleeing Americans..it'll will be all out war.

I can't understand why anyone already thinks he'll accept Iran's recent strikes and a game leveler. He is not a sane man.

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

Quote

Iran will not give black box from crashed Ukrainian airliner to Boeing: Mehr

DUBAI (Reuters) - Iran will not give the black box of the crashed Ukrainian airliner to planemaker Boeing, the head of Tehran’s civil aviation organization was quoted as saying on Wednesday.

Ali Abedzadeh also said it was not clear which country Iran would send the box to so that its data could be analyzed, semi-official Mehr news agency reported.

A Ukraine International Airlines Boeing 737 crashed earlier on Wednesday, killing all 176 people aboard shortly after taking off from Tehran’s Imam Khomeini airport.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-black-box/iran-will-not-give-black-box-from-crashed-ukrainian-airliner-to-boeing-mehr-idUSKBN1Z71C7

 

Some are saying this plane was accidently  shot down by IRGC , look at what it was flying near.

[Alhadder 457]

And many major airlines have cancelled all flights into/out of Iran & Iraq. What do they know that we don't?

The likelihood this was a SAM that brought down this plane increases by the hour imo.

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

8 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

And many major airlines have cancelled all flights into/out of Iran & Iraq. What do they know that we don't?

The likelihood this was a SAM that brought down this plane increases by the hour imo.

Khamenei didn't tell his troops this farce of a face saving retaliation for Soleimani wasn't going to hurt any Americans.

 

[Alhadder 457]

The scattered debris shown in the video embedded in this report on a Sydney Morning Herald page sure looks like confirmation the plane broke up before impact to me.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/the-plane-is-on-fire-ukrainian-airline-crashes-near-tehran-airport-20200108-p53pu9.html

 

 

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

 

 

 

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

[Grrr... 1,420]

I wouldn't give us the black box either.  Our government is corrupt and full of liars, and Boeing has a vested interest in not telling the truth - and it's been proven that they DON'T tell the truth.  If I was Iran - hell, if I was Australia or Canada or Great Britain, I'd tell the US to fuck the hell off.

I'm embarrassed to call myself American right now.

[jzk 1,504]

It appears that this engine failure caused the plane to turn into a fireball while still in the air.

 

[Sol Rosenberg 6,018]

56 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

I wouldn't give us the black box either.  Our government is corrupt and full of liars, and Boeing has a vested interest in not telling the truth - and it's been proven that they DON'T tell the truth.  If I was Iran - hell, if I was Australia or Canada or Great Britain, I'd tell the US to fuck the hell off.

I'm embarrassed to call myself American right now.

Lets get Q-Anon on the job!

All the top American investigators and analysts are busy keeping tabs on that democRAT child sex ring operating out of the basement of a DC pizza parlor with no basement. 

[jzk 1,504]

11 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Yeah “engine failure”  it’s possible of course, jus5 low probability. There’s lots of hours on that engine family.

Are you familiar with sarcasm?

[Steam Flyer 4,739]

1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

I wouldn't give us the black box either.  Our government is corrupt and full of liars, and Boeing has a vested interest in not telling the truth - and it's been proven that they DON'T tell the truth.  If I was Iran - hell, if I was Australia or Canada or Great Britain, I'd tell the US to fuck the hell off.

I'm embarrassed to call myself American right now.

Unfortunately I agree with you. This country needs to turn the hell around, and even more unfortunately there are a LOT of people chanting "Hell Yeah!" to all the destructive fascist bullshit going on.

- DSK

[Mrleft8 2,073]

It was a Boeing 737 for christ's sake! Of course it crashed!

[Shortforbob 2,005]

7 hours ago, Grrr... said:

I wouldn't give us the black box either.  Our government is corrupt and full of liars, and Boeing has a vested interest in not telling the truth - and it's been proven that they DON'T tell the truth.  If I was Iran - hell, if I was Australia or Canada or Great Britain, I'd tell the US to fuck the hell off.

I'm embarrassed to call myself American right now.

 

6 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Lets get Q-Anon on the job!

All the top American investigators and analysts are busy keeping tabs on that democRAT child sex ring operating out of the basement of a DC pizza parlor with no basement. 

See..I'm glad I created this post.

Whatever the outcome of the investigation.

The speculation that this was shot down comes from this group/blog.

I'd like to know who they are before I jump to believing their conclusions.

https://ops.group/blog/risk-assessing-iran-ops-the-uia-737-may-have-been-shot-down/

 

Anyone know who they are and who they affiliate with?

 

[Sol Rosenberg 6,018]

8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 

See..I'm glad I created this post.

Whatever the outcome of the investigation.

The speculation that this was shot down comes from this group/blog.

I'd like to know who they are before I jump to believing their conclusions.

https://ops.group/blog/risk-assessing-iran-ops-the-uia-737-may-have-been-shot-down/

 

Anyone know who they are and who they affiliate with?

 

Not sure but this part makes me view them with a jaundiced eye: "we would recommend the starting assumption to be that this was a shootdown event, similar to MH17 – until there is clear evidence to the contrary."

If you begin with the assumption that something dastardly happened, the likelihood that you end up at that conclusion goes up just a tad. 

[Recidivist 487]

I've seen photos on another forum that clearly show the fuselage with multiple penetrations similar to the "dogbone" penetrations in MH17.  It seems very likely the plane was shot out of the sky by a surface to air missile - some conjecture that it was feared to be a US strike aircraft, but that's all it is, conjecture.

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Not sure but this part makes me view them with a jaundiced eye: "we would recommend the starting assumption to be that this was a shootdown event, similar to MH17 – until there is clear evidence to the contrary."

 

Does this part found at the crash site look like something Boeing fits to this type of plane?

My bet is the Iranians have offered Ukraine a shitload of blood money to help cover this up this crime from the Islamic regime.

 

[Ishmael 5,747]

As reported by the Guardian...

Quote

A statement initially posted on the website of the Ukrainian embassy in Iran ruled out an act of terror and said the crash had been caused by an engine malfunction. However, this was later redacted, with the embassy stating that all information would be provided by an official commission.

 

[RedTuna 15]

12 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Does this part found at the crash site look like something Boeing fits to this type of plane?

My bet is the Iranians have offered Ukraine a shitload of blood money to help cover this up this crime from the Islamic regime.

 

Have yet to see that pic in context of the crash site, and it's all over the place.  And yet tineye didn't find it when I uploaded it.

 

Best to let the hysteria die down before reaching any conclusions.

[RedTuna 15]

2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

If you begin with the assumption that something dastardly happened, the likelihood that you end up at that conclusion goes up just a tad. 

Pretty common assumption since the bad orange man was elected.

[RedTuna 15]

8 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Lets get Q-Anon on the job!

All the top American investigators and analysts are busy keeping tabs on that democRAT child sex ring operating out of the basement of a DC pizza parlor with no basement. 

Sorry.  He's busy putting kiddie porn on Nobel laureate Paul Krugman's computer.

[Ishmael 5,747]

22 minutes ago, RedTuna said:

Have yet to see that pic in context of the crash site, and it's all over the place.  And yet tineye didn't find it when I uploaded it.

 

Best to let the hysteria die down before reaching any conclusions.

I ran it through Googel image search and it returned a finding of "curb". Most of the sites it appeared on are of Russian origin.

[sadug 70]

This may seem a dumb question but wondering if anyone knows if any protocol exists for such countries (say for those who like to launch things) regarding commercial air space closure during an active launch period. Seems to me that all commercial flights should have been suspended at least for a little while after their main launch (were they expecting incoming? were they anticipating launching more? if so why would let let commercial flights buzz around during that?). I am not sure if I would want to board a plane knowing the country I was leaving just lobbed a few fire sticks a couple of hours prior. Maybe the question could be asked this way: If you owned the airline, would you let your planes take off during such a time? They knew missiles had been launched right?

 

Just curious.......

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

The plane was flying towards Iranian missile base.

I trust my sources in Iran 100%.

How does an engine failure cause a plane to drop off the radar at 7900ft? Did the pilots accidently turn transponder off?

 

 

[RedTuna 15]

Yeah, really.  ADSB went blank while still climbing. And no IFE declared, as far as I know.

Anyone know where the transponder switch is?

[Ishmael 5,747]

Right here, according to one site.

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

Try google translate from Farsi to English with this about my missile part pic.

I wonder how reliable any news source will be on reporting this.

Those in Iran know the IRGC shot this plane down.

https://twitter.com/Sanam_banooo/status/1215000422487920641

[Amati 1,342]

2 hours ago, sadug said:

This may seem a dumb question but wondering if anyone knows if any protocol exists for such countries (say for those who like to launch things) regarding commercial air space closure during an active launch period. Seems to me that all commercial flights should have been suspended at least for a little while after their main launch (were they expecting incoming? were they anticipating launching more? if so why would let let commercial flights buzz around during that?). I am not sure if I would want to board a plane knowing the country I was leaving just lobbed a few fire sticks a couple of hours prior. Maybe the question could be asked this way: If you owned the airline, would you let your planes take off during such a time? They knew missiles had been launched right?

 

Just curious.......

FWIW, my wife was doing an aircraft sale in Turkmenistan for Boeing in ‘93, flew from Istanbul to Ashkabat over Armenia, and the THY 737 was vectored by flight control around the ongoing ground battles.  The passengers, at normal cruising altitude could look out the windows and watch artillery and missile activity on the battlefields.  
 

Don’t know if Tehran flight control would offer the same guidance for funeral fireworks, or if the flight was motivated to take a few chances......

 

[Lark 1,434]

هواپیما سقوط کرده پیدا شده و افراد حاضر در محل عکس گرفته

 

Part of the missile defense system that's where today the plane crashed and people were photographed at the scene.

Assuming the tweet is genuine and available in Iran, it would appear the citizens there are speculating as MBL claims.    CNN today has confirmed his claim yesterday that Iraq was warned where to stay away from, though not the time of attack.   

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

12 minutes ago, Lark said:

هواپیما سقوط کرده پیدا شده و افراد حاضر در محل عکس گرفته

 

Part of the missile defense system that's where today the plane crashed and people were photographed at the scene.

Assuming the tweet is genuine and available in Iran, it would appear the citizens there are speculating as MBL claims.    CNN today has confirmed his claim yesterday that Iraq was warned where to stay away from, though not the time of attack.   

 

Khamenei shut down the internet in Iran late last year to stop protestors getting more organised along with stopping the outside world from becoming aware of the regimes brutal response. Internet access is very patchy in Iran at the moment.

I posted original pic here other Iranians have identified exactly what type of missile it was they have no doubt this wasn't a technical failure as meli claimed.

As for the early warning keep in mind politicians  everywhere don't always reveal exactly what they knew when spinning something for the public

[Lark 1,434]

If Iraq told the US  military, I’m guessing somebody forgot to tell Trump since it didn’t end up on his twitter as well.   Otherwise we just watched the Iraqis all disappear and figured it out for ourselves.   

Edit,   I’m glad we didn’t do this one.   

[jhc 125]

17 minutes ago, Lark said:

If Iraq told the US  military, I’m guessing somebody forgot to tell Trump since it didn’t end up on his twitter as well.   Otherwise we just watched the Iraqis all disappear and figured it out for ourselves.   

Edit,   I’m glad we didn’t do this one.   

Shhhh! don't tell Trump...

It's all good, no problem bro

[Bristol-Cruiser 989]

This is a huge story in Canada today. There were 63  Canadians onboard but this number refers to Canadian citizens. The connecting flight from Kyiv to Toronto had something like 134 no shows. I suspect the difference would be made up of Canadian residents who hold Iranian passports. The people killed seem overwhelmingly from academic and professional fields - several professors and grad students, dentists, etc. A lot of young families. It is the most deadly plane crash for Canadians since the Air India terrorist bombing in 1985.

[jhc 125]

21 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

This is a huge story in Canada today. There were 63  Canadians onboard but this number refers to Canadian citizens. The connecting flight from Kyiv to Toronto had something like 134 no shows. I suspect the difference would be made up of Canadian residents who hold Iranian passports. The people killed seem overwhelmingly from academic and professional fields - several professors and grad students, dentists, etc. A lot of young families. It is the most deadly plane crash for Canadians since the Air India terrorist bombing in 1985.

The american equivalent would be Kosovo. 3275

Sorry, IFO-21

Edited January 9, 2020 by jhc

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

Quote

Ukraine withdraws statement blaming Iran plane crash on engine failure

London: Ukraine has withdrawn its previous assurances that mechanical failure was to blame for a plane crash over Iran that killed 176 passengers and crew, with experts warning a potential "catastrophic" event may have caused the airliner to plummet to the ground.

Asked at a briefing in Kiev if the plane could have been downed by a missile, Ukraine's Prime Minister Oleksiy Honcharuk cautioned against speculation until the results of an investigation were known.

He also said Ukraine had banned flights through Iranian airspace from January 9 and prosecutors have been ordered to open criminal proceedings over the crash.

The country's President, Volodymyr Zelensky, said a team of experts had been sent to Iran to "establish the truth" about the deadly incident."Our priority is to establish the truth and those responsible for this terrible catastrophe," he said.

The plane, fully loaded with fuel for its 2300-kilometre flight, climbed to just short of 8000 feet before it lost all communication with ground control.

David Learmount told London's Telegraph that the crew's failure – or inability - to communicate with the ground had confused fellow aviation experts, "because the implication is that whatever happened was sudden and violent, forcing the crew immediately to fight for control".

"Even a catastrophic engine failure – a possibility originally mooted by the Ukrainian authorities but then withdrawn – would be highly unlikely to have such a dramatic effect on control of the aircraft," he said.

.https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/ukraine-drops-statement-blaming-iran-plane-crash-on-engine-failure-20200108-p53pyb.html

 

 

Where is meli?

I reckon Iranians who despise the Islamic regime would have emailed some pics to the Ukraine embassy

[warbird 312]

19 hours ago, albanyguy said:

Mel - what caused the engine malfunction? The plane had it's last scheduled maintenance service on Monday in Kiev. Ukraine International Airlines also said they are suspending flights to Tehran indefinitely. There were 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainian and others onboard.

I'm sorry something just doesn't smell right to me.

Gosh, maybe the whole fucking free world ahould start standing up to the terrorists?

[Alhadder 457]

9 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

 

Where is meli?

Watching unicorns...in Utopia 

[Alhadder 457]

38 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

This is a huge story in Canada today. There were 63  Canadians onboard but this number refers to Canadian citizens. The connecting flight from Kyiv to Toronto had something like 134 no shows. I suspect the difference would be made up of Canadian residents who hold Iranian passports. The people killed seem overwhelmingly from academic and professional fields - several professors and grad students, dentists, etc. A lot of young families. It is the most deadly plane crash for Canadians since the Air India terrorist bombing in 1985.

Yeah first thing I did this morning when I finally got online was look for stories in Canadian media. Found this article on The Globe & Mail.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-63-canadians-among-those-killed-after-ukrainian-airliner-crashes-in/

The video embedded of Trudeau's statement was telling in that he's pretty well shell shocked about what's happened and you can tell that he and the Transport Minister were holding back and being very cautious about any speculation re missile attack, erroneous or otherwise, which is understandable in the circumstances. I wonder if their Foreign Minister has a death stare like our Foreign Minister Julie Bishop when she stared down the Russian Foreign Minister at the UN post the MH17 downing.

[bhyde 1,320]

"Even a catastrophic engine failure – a possibility originally mooted by the Ukrainian authorities but then withdrawn – would be highly unlikely to have such a dramatic effect on control of the aircraft," he said.

You may want to make quick review of Flight 191, Chicago 1989.

Engine and engine related equipment are more than capable of rendering an aircraft uncontrollable. United 232 is another example, although they managed to hit the ground in a semi controlled fashion. There are hundreds of examples of aircraft crashing quickly and dramatically because engine explode, catch fire, rip off the wing, etc.

He's a fucking idiot.

[Rain Man 742]

99% probability of a missile attack.   One can't help but wonder if there was a surveillance asset in the air that the IRGC tried to take out but by mistake got the airliner instead.  The Iranians are probably taking time for the media frenzy to die down before they admit it, like the Saudis did with the Kashoggi murder.

This is the only explanation that supports the crew (RIP) not communicating about the emergency.  Like the crew of MH17, they were likely killed immediately by the missile detonation.  

[sadug 70]

49 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

99% probability of a missile attack.   One can't help but wonder if there was a surveillance asset in the air that the IRGC tried to take out but by mistake got the airliner instead.  The Iranians are probably taking time for the media frenzy to die down before they admit it, like the Saudis did with the Kashoggi murder.

This is the only explanation that supports the crew (RIP) not communicating about the emergency.  Like the crew of MH17, they were likely killed immediately by the missile detonation.  

Not sure if you saw my question but why where commercial flights even allowed to be taking off/landing at this time?

[Rain Man 742]

26 minutes ago, sadug said:

Not sure if you saw my question but why where commercial flights even allowed to be taking off/landing at this time?

It beggars belief that flights were allowed.  While the missiles against Iraq were launched in a different direction (West) and the aircraft was taking off to the north, and 5 hours had passed since the missiles were launched,  there was an expectation of retaliation from the USA.  Unlikely that Iran would close their airspace prior to the attack and telegraph their plans, but afterward?  All Iranian airspace should have been closed, especially after MH17.  

[Ed Lada 2,470]

13 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I'd like to know who they are before I jump to believing their conclusions.

https://ops.group/blog/risk-assessing-iran-ops-the-uia-737-may-have-been-shot-down/

 

Anyone know who they are and who they affiliate with?

All you have to do is click on the heading 'story' on their web page.

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

Post 22 for original pic The Iranians have identified what missile it is

 

Yoo hoo meli where are you?

 

 

[kent_island_sailor 3,388]

6 hours ago, bhyde said:

"Even a catastrophic engine failure – a possibility originally mooted by the Ukrainian authorities but then withdrawn – would be highly unlikely to have such a dramatic effect on control of the aircraft," he said.

You may want to make quick review of Flight 191, Chicago 1989.

Engine and engine related equipment are more than capable of rendering an aircraft uncontrollable. United 232 is another example, although they managed to hit the ground in a semi controlled fashion. There are hundreds of examples of aircraft crashing quickly and dramatically because engine explode, catch fire, rip off the wing, etc.

He's a fucking idiot.

I am a commercial pilot. An engine failure that takes out the transponder and all radios instantly is not a thing. FYI

[Shortforbob 2,005]

35 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

All you have to do is click on the heading 'story' on their web page.

conspiracy theorists? I know about as much about things aviatial ? as I do about quantum physics. actually, on reflection probably less.

https://ops.group/story/what-is-opsgroup-all-about/

[Alhadder 457]

2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

conspiracy theorists?

https://ops.group/story/what-is-opsgroup-all-about/

Whatever you reckon Meli. Take off those who rose coloured glasses 

[Ed Lada 2,470]

2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

conspiracy theorists?

https://ops.group/story/what-is-opsgroup-all-about/

Sure doesn't sound like it to me.  Did you look at some of the other stories on their site?  It appears to be a group of professional aviation ops people, to discuss their work.  The crash of a civilian airliner in Iran certainly would fall into that realm.

[Shortforbob 2,005]

Just now, Ed Lada said:

Sure doesn't sound like it to me.  Did you look at some of the other stories on their site?  It appears to be a group of professional aviation ops people, to discuss their work.  The crash of a civilian airliner in Iran certainly would fall into that realm.

 

5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 I know about as much about things aviatial ? as I do about quantum physics. actually, on reflection probably less.

https://ops.group/story/what-is-opsgroup-all-about/

I have no dog in this fight, I simply wanted it to be discussed on a separate thread rather than be buried in another.

If it was shot down? accident? deliberate? USA or Iran? so much mileage to be got before the metal is cold even 

[Ed Lada 2,470]

5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 

I have no dog in this fight, I simply wanted it to be discussed on a separate thread rather than be buried in another.

If it was shot down? accident? deliberate? USA or Iran? so much mileage to be got before the metal is cold even 

You might also note that you edited your post at some point after I answered you. 

Certainly not required but it's the polite thing to do. 

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 71]

7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 

If it was shot down? accident? deliberate? USA or Iran? 

Since it was flying directly for an Iranian missile base after Iran launched missiles into Iraq I would say shot down by IRGC who thought it was an American plane coming in to bomb them.

No ifs about it all my Iranian friends say the IRGC shot it down.

 

[Shortforbob 2,005]

1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

You might also note that you edited your post at some point after I answered you. 

Certainly not required but it's the polite thing to do. 

not after, simultaneous. 

[Shortforbob 2,005]

1 hour ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

 

No ifs about it all my Iranian friends say the IRGC shot it down.

 

That's sorted then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ed Lada 2,470]

1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

That's sorted then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MBL has high friends in low places.  They know everything.

[Shortforbob 2,005]

2 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Post 22 for original pic The Iranians have identified what missile it is

 

Yoo hoo meli where are you?

 

 

Must have shrunk in the wash.

[jzk 1,504]

8 hours ago, bhyde said:

"Even a catastrophic engine failure – a possibility originally mooted by the Ukrainian authorities but then withdrawn – would be highly unlikely to have such a dramatic effect on control of the aircraft," he said.

You may want to make quick review of Flight 191, Chicago 1989.

Engine and engine related equipment are more than capable of rendering an aircraft uncontrollable. United 232 is another example, although they managed to hit the ground in a semi controlled fashion. There are hundreds of examples of aircraft crashing quickly and dramatically because engine explode, catch fire, rip off the wing, etc.

He's a fucking idiot.

I don't see the fireball in that picture that was in the video.

[Ed Lada 2,470]

4 minutes ago, jzk said:

I don't see the fireball in that picture that was in the video.

Because in the that photo, the engine has already fallen off you fool.

[jzk 1,504]

1 minute ago, Ed Lada said:

Because in the that photo, the engine has already fallen off you fool.

Then, it is not a very representative example of what happened in Iran.  

[Ed Lada 2,470]

1 minute ago, jzk said:

Then, it is not a very representative example of what happened in Iran.  

Sometimes engines explode and fall off of off the plane.  Sometimes engines explode and stay in place and burn.  It really isn't that difficult to understand.  

Real life explosions aren't like the ones you see in the cartoons you watch incessantly.

[jzk 1,504]

5 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Sometimes engines explode and fall off of off the plane.  Sometimes engines explode and stay in place and burn.  It really isn't that difficult to understand.  

Real life explosions aren't like the ones you see in the cartoons you watch incessantly.

And sometimes Iran accidentally shoots down an airliner.

[Ed Lada 2,470]

2 minutes ago, jzk said:

And sometimes Iran accidentally shoots down an airliner.

No, sometimes the US accidentally shoots down an Iranian airliner. 

Does the name USS Vincenes ring a bell?

[Steam Flyer 4,739]

7 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

11 minutes ago, jzk said:

And sometimes Iran accidentally shoots down an airliner.

No, sometimes the US accidentally shoots down an Iranian airliner. 

Does the name USS Vincenes ring a bell?

That wasn't an accident.

We've discussed this before IIRC, given what the CO of the VINCENNES knew at the time, he was justified in shooting down that plane IMHO. I was over there about the same time, and saw a lot of the fuck-fuck games going on. I also am not impartial, I had buddies killed on the STARK.

One thing a lot of people don't know... the wife of the VINCENNES captain was carbombed a year or so after the incident.

And I call the killing of Suleimani a murder. The Trump Administration does not apparently have any evidence within the laws to justify it.

- DSK

[kent_island_sailor 3,388]

19 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Sometimes engines explode and fall off of off the plane.  Sometimes engines explode and stay in place and burn.  It really isn't that difficult to understand.  

Real life explosions aren't like the ones you see in the cartoons you watch incessantly.

I'll repeat: I am a commercial pilot with some education in accident investigation. The odds of an engine failure taking out all the comms and transponder instantly are incredibly low. I am obviously not on-scene, but this accident has every indication so far of an internal or external explosion and none of engine failure.

[jzk 1,504]

13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That wasn't an accident.

We've discussed this before IIRC, given what the CO of the VINCENNES knew at the time, he was justified in shooting down that plane IMHO. I was over there about the same time, and saw a lot of the fuck-fuck games going on. I also am not impartial, I had buddies killed on the STARK.

One thing a lot of people don't know... the wife of the VINCENNES captain was carbombed a year or so after the incident.

And I call the killing of Suleimani a murder. The Trump Administration does not apparently have any evidence within the laws to justify it.

- DSK

Oh, well that settles it.  You were over there, and you know that the US intentionally shot down an airliner full of civilians because that kind of thing does wonders for US foreign policy.  

 

[jzk 1,504]

14 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I'll repeat: I am a commercial pilot with some education in accident investigation. The odds of an engine failure taking out all the comms and transponder instantly are incredibly low. I am obviously not on-scene, but this accident has every indication so far of an internal or external explosion and none of engine failure.

What are the odds that missile parts are found in a wreckage of an airliner that crashed due to engine failure? (if those photos are verified).

There probably was engine failure very soon after the missile hit the aircraft.  

 

[kent_island_sailor 3,388]

1 minute ago, jzk said:

Oh, well that settles it.  You were over there, and you know that the US intentionally shot down an airliner full of civilians because that kind of thing does wonders for US foreign policy.  

 

What you said makes no sense given the post you were responding to. Read it again - slowly - for comprehension and try again.

[jzk 1,504]

2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

What you said makes no sense given the post you were responding to. Read it again - slowly - for comprehension and try again.

What about it?  Steam said he was there and it was no accident that the US took out an airliner full of civilians.  

[jzk 1,504]

4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

It wasn’t an accident 

Now it is pretty definitive.  We have Steam and you vouching that it wasn't an accident.  

What more would anyone need?

[Ed Lada 2,470]

I will wait for concrete evidence that the crash of the Ukrainian jet was intentional, I am not saying for certain it wasn't.  I can't see any benefit for Iran to shoot it down unless it was a case of mistaken identity and the Iranians thought it was a hostile military aircraft.  Otherwise, we are getting into conspiracy theory land.

35 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I'll repeat: I am a commercial pilot with some education in accident investigation. The odds of an engine failure taking out all the comms and transponder instantly are incredibly low. I am obviously not on-scene, but this accident has every indication so far of an internal or external explosion and none of engine failure.

As far as the lack of communications, it is a well known axiom in the piloting business, that during an emergency, the last priority in the cockpit is communication.  I'm sure you know that KIS.

The transponder, who knows.

 

26 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That wasn't an accident.

We've discussed this before IIRC, given what the CO of the VINCENNES knew at the time, he was justified in shooting down that plane IMHO. I was over there about the same time, and saw a lot of the fuck-fuck games going on. I also am not impartial, I had buddies killed on the STARK.

I'm not sure what you are saying.  Do you mean the CO of the Vincenens was justified because of the confusion as to what kind of plane it was, given Iranian war planes were in the vicinity?  I can't strongly disagree with that, but if the commander didn't intentionally shoot down a civilian plane, then I would still call it a case of mistaken identity and an accident in that respect.

 

 

[Ed Lada 2,470]

7 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

It wasn’t an accident 

Oh.   Well that certainly settles the matter.

 

[kent_island_sailor 3,388]

16 minutes ago, jzk said:

What about it?  Steam said he was there and it was no accident that the US took out an airliner full of civilians.  

"Accident" in the sense that someone put their coffee on the launch button and "accident" in the sense they didn't know it was a civilian airplane are <  > 

[jzk 1,504]

1 minute ago, Ed Lada said:

I will wait for concrete evidence that the crash of the Ukrainian jet was intentional, I am not saying for certain it wasn't.  I can't see any benefit for Iran to shoot it down unless it was a case of mistaken identity and the Iranians thought it was a hostile military aircraft.  Otherwise, we are getting into conspiracy theory land.

As far as the lack of communications, it is a well known axiom in the piloting business, that during an emergency, the last priority in the cockpit is communication.  I'm sure you know that KIS.

The transponder, who knows.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying.  Do you mean the CO of the Vincenens was justified because of the confusion as to what kind of plane it was, given Iranian war planes were in the vicinity?  I can't strongly disagree with that, but if the commander didn't intentionally shoot down a civilian plane, then I would still call it a case of mistaken identity and an accident in that respect.

 

 

I think it would be very unlikely that Iran shot down the airliner on purpose.  Obviously, the likely scenario is that someone with an itchy trigger finger mistook it for a US attack.

[kent_island_sailor 3,388]

2 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I will wait for concrete evidence that the crash of the Ukrainian jet was intentional, I am not saying for certain it wasn't.  I can't see any benefit for Iran to shoot it down unless it was a case of mistaken identity and the Iranians thought it was a hostile military aircraft.  Otherwise, we are getting into conspiracy theory land.

As far as the lack of communications, it is a well known axiom in the piloting business, that during an emergency, the last priority in the cockpit is communication.  I'm sure you know that KIS.

The transponder, who knows.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying.  Do you mean the CO of the Vincenens was justified because of the confusion as to what kind of plane it was, given Iranian war planes were in the vicinity?  I can't strongly disagree with that, but if the commander didn't intentionally shoot down a civilian plane, then I would still call it a case of mistaken identity and an accident in that respect.

 

 

I have had more than one engine failure and I always managed to get off a Mayday and set the transponder. You want all the airspace cleared and all the help you can get. The odds of this being an engine failure are IMHO very low. I am not speculating as to what actually did happen, there are a lot of possibilities. Once again, the odds someone wanted to piss off Ukraine, Boeing, and Canada are also low, so my guess for now is a colossal fuck-up by someone.

[Fakenews 1,113]

A guy on CNN formerly head investigator from  NTSB said from looking at photos of the various engine bits and footage of the plane going down that it overwhelmingly likely that the plane went down due to mechanical issues.

[Ed Lada 2,470]

1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I have had more than one engine failure and I always managed to get off a Mayday and set the transponder. You want all the airspace cleared and all the help you can get. The odds of this being an engine failure are IMHO very low. I am not speculating as to what actually did happen, there are a lot of possibilities. Once again, the odds someone wanted to piss off Ukraine, Boeing, and Canada are also low, so my guess for now is a colossal fuck-up by someone.

I am not denigrating your pilot experience but as far as I have read here, you are a private pilot.  That's a little different than flying a commercial jetliner.  If you have other experience, please excuse my ignorance and I'll eat my words. 

I would agree that if it wasn't an accident than a colossal fuck-up would be the most reasonable explanation.

[kent_island_sailor 3,388]

12 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I am not denigrating your pilot experience but as far as I have read here, you are a private pilot.  That's a little different than flying a commercial jetliner.  If you have other experience, please excuse my ignorance and I'll eat my words. 

I would agree that if it wasn't an accident than a colossal fuck-up would be the most reasonable explanation.

I am not a private pilot, I am a commercial pilot as stated. The FDR will make it all obvious if anyone ever gets to see it. Actually my license class matters little, anyone with education in accident investigation would be familiar with the profiles of engine failures vs. bombs and missiles.

[Ed Lada 2,470]

2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am not a private pilot, I am a commercial pilot as stated. The FDR will make it all obvious if anyone ever gets to see it. Actually my license class matters little, anyone with education in accident investigation would be familiar with the profiles of engine failures vs. bombs and missiles.

Sorry for my confusion.

That's why I am waiting for the experts to enlighten us, before I make a judgement.  I do believe the truth will come out, although at times I tend to be too optimistic and naive that the truth will tell.

[Sol Rosenberg 6,018]

2 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

waiting for the experts to enlighten us, 

Always a good call...at least until the experts say something against the interests of the Pride of the GOP and become the Dipe Stitee.  

But I agree. We will likely find out what happened.