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Doomsday Clock moves closest to midnight in its 73-year history

 

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FROM:  The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists

TO: Leaders and citizens of the world
Re: Closer than ever: It is 100 seconds to midnight
Date: January 23, 2020

Humanity continues to face two simultaneous existential dangers—nuclear war and climate change—that are compounded by a threat multiplier, cyber-enabled information warfare, that undercuts society’s ability to respond. The international security situation is dire, not just because these threats exist, but because world leaders have allowed the international political infrastructure for managing them to erode.

In the nuclear realm, national leaders have ended or undermined several major arms control treaties and negotiations during the last year, creating an environment conducive to a renewed nuclear arms race, to the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and to lowered barriers to nuclear war. Political conflicts regarding nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea remain unresolved and are, if anything, worsening. US-Russia cooperation on arms control and disarmament is all but nonexistent.

Yes, our fearless leader really fucked this up.

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A stopped clock is usually right once a day.

This one, curiously, has never been right.

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

FROM:  The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists

TO: Leaders and citizens of the world
Re: Closer than ever: It is 100 seconds to midnight
Date: January 23, 2020

Humanity continues to face two simultaneous existential dangers—nuclear war and climate change—that are compounded by a threat multiplier, cyber-enabled information warfare, that undercuts society’s ability to respond. The international security situation is dire, not just because these threats exist, but because world leaders have allowed the international political infrastructure for managing them to erode.

In the nuclear realm, national leaders have ended or undermined several major arms control treaties and negotiations during the last year, creating an environment conducive to a renewed nuclear arms race, to the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and to lowered barriers to nuclear war. Political conflicts regarding nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea remain unresolved and are, if anything, worsening. US-Russia cooperation on arms control and disarmament is all but nonexistent.

Yes, our fearless leader really fucked this up.

Are you somehow under the foolish impression that the nuclear issues with NK and Iran were actually solved or came into existence in January 2016?

 

 

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The board behind the clock contains thirteen Nobel laureates as well as other scientists of renown.   Will you offer your credentials, to offset the wisdom you have shown here?    This is one clock that is not meant to be correct.    It’s meant to run backward if our leaders cease to behave so backwardly.    Interestingly, the brain trust behind the clock cites climate change as much as our decision to force Iran to protect itself from Republican aggression with nukes.

I’m sure Trump is proud to be ahead of Reagan.     

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9 minutes ago, Lark said:

The board behind the clock contains thirteen Nobel laureates as well as other scientists of renown.   Will you offer your credentials, to offset the wisdom you have shown here?    This is one clock that is not meant to be correct.    It’s meant to run backward if our leaders cease to behave so backwardly.    Interestingly, the brain trust behind the clock cites climate change as much as our decision to force Iran to protect itself from Republican aggression with nukes.

I’m sure Trump is proud to be ahead of Reagan.     

It's a way to sell fear and the hope of salvation.

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Do you remember the Y2K crises that didn’t happen?    Did you realize it wasn’t a ploy for headlines?   The headlines jump started industry and government into replacing computers and writing patches.   The story was a victim of its own success.   Catastrophe avoided, those that didn’t write the patches dismissed the warning as hype.   Encyclopedia Britannica notes the upgrades to infrastructure benefited the world economy for several years.   This is the best kind of crises.   A lot of my generation had no confidence your generation wouldn’t blow up the world before we succeeded in discovering what girls had to offer, as the Maiden song demonstrates.   Fortunately you chose slow bake instead of nuclear freeze.    

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21 minutes ago, Lark said:

Do you remember the Y2K crises that didn’t happen?    Did you realize it wasn’t a ploy for headlines?   The headlines jump started industry and government into replacing computers and writing patches.   The story was a victim of its own success.   Catastrophe avoided, those that didn’t write the patches dismissed the warning as hype.   Encyclopedia Britannica notes the upgrades to infrastructure benefited the world economy for several years.   This is the best kind of crises.   A lot of my generation had no confidence your generation wouldn’t blow up the world before we succeeded in discovering what girls had to offer, as the Maiden song demonstrates.   Fortunately you chose slow bake instead of nuclear freeze.    

Let me explain something that seems beyond your comprehension.  The Doomsday Clock was created by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.

These are the same people who brought you the various forms of nuclear weapons and those nuclear power plants now considered so environmentally dreadful.

Why do you place such faith in their judgement?

The clock is a political ploy to instill fear and the hope of salvation.  Coincidentally, the Nobel prizes are funded by the invention of dynamite.

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27 minutes ago, Lark said:

Do you remember the Y2K crises that didn’t happen?    Did you realize it wasn’t a ploy for headlines?   The headlines jump started industry and government into replacing computers and writing patches.   The story was a victim of its own success.   Catastrophe avoided, those that didn’t write the patches dismissed the warning as hype.   Encyclopedia Britannica notes the upgrades to infrastructure benefited the world economy for several years.   This is the best kind of crises.   A lot of my generation had no confidence your generation wouldn’t blow up the world before we succeeded in discovering what girls had to offer, as the Maiden song demonstrates.   Fortunately you chose slow bake instead of nuclear freeze.    

The solution was well underway before it became an over-hyped crisis.  It was basically a logistical problem to those, like myself, who were working it.

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10 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Let me explain something that seems beyond your comprehension.  The Doomsday Clock was created by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.

These are the same people who brought you the various forms of nuclear weapons and those nuclear power plants now considered so environmentally dreadful.

Why do you place such faith in their judgement?

The clock is a political ploy to instill fear and the hope of salvation.  Coincidentally, the Nobel prizes are funded by the invention of dynamite.

Let's see... the Doomsday Clock was created a group of really smart people. How do we know they are really really smart? They discovered and created a new and extremely powerful class of devices on principles unknown previously.

How do you know they're wrong? Fox News and their elk tell you, led by a guy who's really really smart, way smarter than the concerned scientists. How do we know he's so smart? He says so! And he never lies!!

- DSK

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Not just nukes and climate change...

Continued corruption of the information ecosphere on which democracy and public decision making depend has heightened the nuclear and climate threats. In the last year, many governments used cyber-enabled disinformation campaigns to sow distrust in institutions and among nations, undermining domestic and international efforts to foster peace and protect the planet.

This situation—two major threats to human civilization, amplified by sophisticated, technology-propelled propaganda—would be serious enough if leaders around the world were focused on managing the danger and reducing the risk of catastrophe. Instead, over the last two years, we have seen influential leaders denigrate and discard the most effective methods for addressing complex threats—international agreements with strong verification regimes—in favor of their own narrow interests and domestic political gain. By undermining cooperative, science- and law-based approaches to managing the most urgent threats to humanity, these leaders have helped to create a situation that will, if unaddressed, lead to catastrophe, sooner rather than later.

The leaders.  It's always the fucking leaders screwing it up for the rest of us.  And for those able to choose their leaders, we do a pretty piss-poor job.

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

It's a way to sell fear and the hope of salvation.

But that is the entire basis of Trump's schtick - make the gullible afraid of as many things as possible and then convince them that he is the only who can save them from all of the threats he has created in his mighty mind. It is easy to understand what he is doing. It is much harder to figure out why it works with so many people.

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Are you somehow under the foolish impression that the nuclear issues with NK and Iran were actually solved or came into existence in January 2016?

You appear to know very little about nuclear weapons issues. In fact there was a working agreement to de-nuke NK in the 1990's, but the GOPPERS blew it up. 

Then there was the Iran deal, that both US intell agencies and all the co-signers (Germany, China, Russia, etc.) said was working. The GOPPERS blew it up. 

And then the Drumph goes and transfers nuke technology to the Saudi without bothering to inform Congress. Are you OK with that? 

Please do not subject us to another round of your Reich-wing blather. 

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What Saorsa forgot to tell you is that frequently the people who built the nuclear weapons systems are the same people who are the 

most frightened by what they have wrought - from Robt. McNamara to Oppenheimer to former Sec Def Wm Perry . . . 

Actually, the reaction of many of them can fairly be described as "scared shitless". 

Here is an on-line course from Stanford U., organized by Perry.  I scored a 98 on the quizzes. 

https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/course-v1:MSandE+NuclearBrink+SelfPaced/about

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

But that is the entire basis of Trump's schtick - make the gullible afraid of as many things as possible and then convince them that he is the only who can save them from all of the threats he has created in his mighty mind. It is easy to understand what he is doing. It is much harder to figure out why it works with so many people.

That's the essence of every political schtick.

 

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36 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

What Saorsa forgot to tell you is that frequently the people who built the nuclear weapons systems are the same people who are the 

most frightened by what they have wrought - from Robt. McNamara to Oppenheimer to former Sec Def Wm Perry . . . 

Actually, the reaction of many of them can fairly be described as "scared shitless". 

Here is an on-line course from Stanford U., organized by Perry.  I scored a 98 on the quizzes. 

https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/course-v1:MSandE+NuclearBrink+SelfPaced/about

Yeah, and some of those geniuses also felt that it was bad for the US to be the only country with nuclear weapons and shared their 'genius' with the Soviet Union.

The doomsday clock is a political tool.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Let's see... the Doomsday Clock was created a group of really smart people. How do we know they are really really smart? They discovered and created a new and extremely powerful class of devices on principles unknown previously.

How do you know they're wrong? Fox News and their elk tell you, led by a guy who's really really smart, way smarter than the concerned scientists. How do we know he's so smart? He says so! And he never lies!!

- DSK

Bullshit.

The Nazi's were working on the same device and the Japanese actually had two programs competing for the same resources.

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Let's see... the Doomsday Clock was created a group of really smart people. How do we know they are really really smart? They discovered and created a new and extremely powerful class of devices on principles unknown previously.

How do you know they're wrong? Fox News and their elk tell you, led by a guy who's really really smart, way smarter than the concerned scientists. How do we know he's so smart? He says so! And he never lies!!

- DSK

How do we know that they were wrong? 

2 minutes went by and nothing happened.  

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10 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Yeah, and 

deflection alert - first deal with your lies, and then we can talk about engaging. 

Why does it make sense to elevate and honor the nuclear warriors, and denigrate those who developed differing perspectives ? 

All Saora is doing here is attacking the messenger which allows him to avoid the issue of nuclear risks, and costs. 

Why is Teller more credible than McNamara? Saors won't tell you, but he just knows that that former is a hero, and the latter a villain. 

 

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35 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

deflection alert - first deal with your lies, and then we can talk about engaging. 

Why does it make sense to elevate and honor the nuclear warriors, and denigrate those who developed differing perspectives ? 

All Saora is doing here is attacking the messenger which allows him to avoid the issue of nuclear risks, and costs. 

Why is Teller more credible than McNamara? Saors won't tell you, but he just knows that that former is a hero, and the latter a villain. 

 

Being smart does not make you right or able to predict the future.

Both Teller and McNamara were really smart people.

In fact, there are really smart people on both sides of every political argument.  The true fact is both sides are lying to gain power over others.

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8 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

  The true fact is both sides are lying to gain power over others.

You have just described your world view. That is certainly what you do. 

And people like you, liars that is, generally believe that others are lying too. 

But how do you know that? You don't. 

See above where you lied (or were grossly in error) about Iran and NK. You made no correction or apology, 

Based on your own comments, we have to conclude that you were lying, and will continue to do so. 

Far outside your ken, there is an entire world of ethical people who are sometimes wrong, but do 

not deliberately lie. I try to be among that number. 

You, obviously, do not. 

 

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

How do we know that they were wrong? 

2 minutes went by and nothing happened.  

:lol:   :lol:   :lol:

Thanks for a good laugh. That was half clever. If you can keep a sense of humor, you can pretend the other kids are laughing -with- you

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

That's the essence of every political schtick.

 

I think we have made a major discovery here. This is not the essence of every political schtick at all. Real leaders do not lead by promoting fear. There are higher human values that a country can be built around. It is sad that you cannot see that.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

:lol:   :lol:   :lol:

Thanks for a good laugh. That was half clever. If you can keep a sense of humor, you can pretend the other kids are laughing -with- you

- DSK

Yes, we are laughing at you.  And future civilizations will laugh at your mystical beliefs that the end was near.  

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16 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think we have made a major discovery here. This is not the essence of every political schtick at all. Real leaders do not lead by promoting fear. There are higher human values that a country can be built around. It is sad that you cannot see that.

Of course it is.

Folks are afraid of climate change.

Folks are afraid that if they don't have a college education that they can't make a living. 

Folks are afraid that they can't pay back the money they borrowed to get a useless degree.

Folks are afraid that they can't pay for their healthcare.

Folks fear uncontrolled immigration.

Politicians can also invoke envy.  Yeah, you have a house and a car and a job but other people have more.  You have to hate and fear those bastards so you can take their stuff.

In your terms, who was our last real leader?

 

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48 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Of course it is.

Folks are afraid of climate change.

Folks are afraid that if they don't have a college education that they can't make a living. 

Folks are afraid that they can't pay back the money they borrowed to get a useless degree.

Folks are afraid that they can't pay for their healthcare.

Folks fear uncontrolled immigration.

Politicians can also invoke envy.  Yeah, you have a house and a car and a job but other people have more.  You have to hate and fear those bastards so you can take their stuff.

In your terms, who was our last real leader?

 

Perhaps FDR who made the trenchant comment, 'We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.' One reason the US is the most messed up country in the advanced world is that the population has been duped by a leader who has played on and built fear for his own purposes. If you look at all the countries that rank highly on the happiest rankings they have populations that don't live in fear.

Top 10 happiest countries by one respected measure

23px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.png Finland 7.769 1.340 1.587 0.986 0.596 0.153 0.393
2 20px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Denmark 7.600 1.383 1.573 0.996 0.592 0.252 0.410
3 21px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png Norway 7.554 1.488 1.582 1.028 0.603 0.271 0.341
4 21px-Flag_of_Iceland.svg.png Iceland 7.494 1.380 1.624 1.026 0.591 0.354 0.118
5 23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png Netherlands 7.488 1.396 1.522 0.999 0.557 0.322 0.298
6 16px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png  Switzerland 7.480 1.452 1.526 1.052 0.572 0.263 0.343
7 23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png Sweden 7.343 1.387 1.487 1.009 0.574 0.267 0.373
8 23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png New Zealand 7.307 1.303 1.557 1.026 0.585 0.330 0.380
9 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg.pn Canada 7.278 1.365 1.505 1.039 0.584 0.285 0.308
10 23px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png Austria

United States is #19 slipping in between Belgium and Czechia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Of course it is.

Folks are afraid of climate change.

Folks are afraid that if they don't have a college education that they can't make a living. 

Folks are afraid that they can't pay back the money they borrowed to get a useless degree.

Folks are afraid that they can't pay for their healthcare.

Folks fear uncontrolled immigration.

Politicians can also invoke envy.  Yeah, you have a house and a car and a job but other people have more.  You have to hate and fear those bastards so you can take their stuff.

In your terms, who was our last real leader?

 

Did Obama make you afraid?

- DSK

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On 1/25/2020 at 8:47 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Let's see... the Doomsday Clock was created a group of really smart people. How do we know they are really really smart? They discovered and created a new and extremely powerful class of devices on principles unknown previously.

How do you know they're wrong? Fox News and their elk tell you, led by a guy who's really really smart, way smarter than the concerned scientists. How do we know he's so smart? He says so! And he never lies!!

- DSK

Do not demean Trumps smarts! Particularly on the nukclear...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-sentence/

 

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27 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Perhaps FDR who made the trenchant comment, 'We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.' One reason the US is the most messed up country in the advanced world is that the population has been duped by a leader who has played on and built fear for his own purposes. If you look at all the countries that rank highly on the happiest rankings they have populations that don't live in fear.

Top 10 happiest countries by one respected measure

23px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.png Finland 7.769 1.340 1.587 0.986 0.596 0.153 0.393
2 20px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Denmark 7.600 1.383 1.573 0.996 0.592 0.252 0.410
3 21px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png Norway 7.554 1.488 1.582 1.028 0.603 0.271 0.341
4 21px-Flag_of_Iceland.svg.png Iceland 7.494 1.380 1.624 1.026 0.591 0.354 0.118
5 23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png Netherlands 7.488 1.396 1.522 0.999 0.557 0.322 0.298
6 16px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png  Switzerland 7.480 1.452 1.526 1.052 0.572 0.263 0.343
7 23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png Sweden 7.343 1.387 1.487 1.009 0.574 0.267 0.373
8 23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png New Zealand 7.307 1.303 1.557 1.026 0.585 0.330 0.380
9 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg.pn Canada 7.278 1.365 1.505 1.039 0.584 0.285 0.308
10 23px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png Austria

United States is #19 slipping in between Belgium and Czechia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

Common denominators in that list

1) Socialized medicine

2) Strict gun and assault weapon control

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Of course it is.

Folks are afraid of climate change.

Folks are afraid that if they don't have a college education that they can't make a living. 

Folks are afraid that they can't pay back the money they borrowed to get a useless degree.

Folks are afraid that they can't pay for their healthcare.

Folks fear uncontrolled immigration.

Politicians can also invoke envy.  Yeah, you have a house and a car and a job but other people have more.  You have to hate and fear those bastards so you can take their stuff.

In your terms, who was our last real leader?

 

I’ve never served in the military so I guess I don’t get that whole leadership thing.  I can make my own decisions and won’t be led by anyone let alone a politician. However I do expect to be able to respect a POTUS and the last one I respected was Obama.

Trumptards on the other hand love to be led by the nose and so for them Trump is a fantastic leader.

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2 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

I’ve never served in the military so I guess I don’t get that whole leadership thing.  I can make my own decisions and won’t be led by anyone let alone a politician. However I do expect to be able to respect a POTUS and the last one I respected was Obama.

Trumptards on the other hand love to be led by the nose and so for them Trump is a fantastic leader.

Who here wants and needs a "leader?"

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44 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Perhaps FDR who made the trenchant comment, 'We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.' One reason the US is the most messed up country in the advanced world is that the population has been duped by a leader who has played on and built fear for his own purposes. If you look at all the countries that rank highly on the happiest rankings they have populations that don't live in fear.

Top 10 happiest countries by one respected measure

23px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.png Finland 7.769 1.340 1.587 0.986 0.596 0.153 0.393
2 20px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.png Denmark 7.600 1.383 1.573 0.996 0.592 0.252 0.410
3 21px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png Norway 7.554 1.488 1.582 1.028 0.603 0.271 0.341
4 21px-Flag_of_Iceland.svg.png Iceland 7.494 1.380 1.624 1.026 0.591 0.354 0.118
5 23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png Netherlands 7.488 1.396 1.522 0.999 0.557 0.322 0.298
6 16px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png  Switzerland 7.480 1.452 1.526 1.052 0.572 0.263 0.343
7 23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png Sweden 7.343 1.387 1.487 1.009 0.574 0.267 0.373
8 23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png New Zealand 7.307 1.303 1.557 1.026 0.585 0.330 0.380
9 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg.pn Canada 7.278 1.365 1.505 1.039 0.584 0.285 0.308
10 23px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png Austria

United States is #19 slipping in between Belgium and Czechia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

It seems that the US has slipped from 13 in 2016 to 19 in 2019.

I would imagine that it is due to Trump being President.  

It is true that there were people unhappy about Obama being president.  But, the people that are unhappy about Trump being president are ten times as unhappy as the others were with Obama.  Those that hare happy about Trump being president are only 2 - 3 times as happy as those that were happy with Obama.

So basically, it is very difficult to compete with those with Trump derangement syndrome.  I am surprised that we held on to 19.  

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12 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Common denominators in that list

1) Socialized medicine

2) Strict gun and assault weapon control

I think that is a bit simplistic. I think what contributes to the success of these countries is a general agreement of what is important and a willingness to work toward positive goals rather than focus on negative things. Trump says he wants to make America great again (or keep it great, I don't see how it is in better shape than in 2016) but everything he talks about is to build on people's fears - immigrants, people/countries who are a different colour/faith, uppity women, gays you name it. The Dem candidate has to appeal to people's better natures. I don't see an FDR but when it is one-on-one with Trump it will be easier to see the difference.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

It seems that the US has slipped from 13 in 2016 to 19 in 2019.

I would imagine that it is due to Trump being President.  

It is true that there were people unhappy about Obama being president.  But, the people that are unhappy about Trump being president are ten times as unhappy as the others were with Obama.  Those that hare happy about Trump being president are only 2 - 3 times as happy as those that were happy with Obama.

So basically, it is very difficult to compete with those with Trump derangement syndrome.  I am surprised that we held on to 19.  

Would I be correct in understanding that your university course on applied logic did not go well? I would suggest you look at the factors in the report that are used to calculate the happiness score.

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9 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think that is a bit simplistic. I think what contributes to the success of these countries is a general agreement of what is important and a willingness to work toward positive goals rather than focus on negative things. Trump says he wants to make America great again (or keep it great, I don't see how it is in better shape than in 2016) but everything he talks about is to build on people's fears - immigrants, people/countries who are a different colour/faith, uppity women, gays you name it. The Dem candidate has to appeal to people's better natures. I don't see an FDR but when it is one-on-one with Trump it will be easier to see the difference.

I noticed that the US ranked 59th or so in "freedom to make life choices," behind places like Botswana, Columbia and China.

How did they compare "freedom to make life choices?"  They just asked whether one was satisfied or dissatisfied with their "freedom to make life choices" and added up the binary answers.  Sounds really scientific.  You must have gone to a really great university.  

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I can tell you with 100% confidence that no matter the results of a possibly flawed survey the people in the Philippines, of all places, are far happier than US residents. I go back and forth frequently. No comparison. They are not meeting many goals, though, that is for sure. But is that happiness? I would measure happiness as the opposite of sad, grumpy, angry, hateful. Ya know, the opposite of Trump-like.

For starters, they have no illusions about being 'Great'. Whatever that is. And the concept of 'Again' gets no traction either in a society living in the moment.

So it is not hard to imagine 58 other countries with happier people than the USA.

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:
1 hour ago, jzk said:

...   ...

Would I be correct in understanding that your university course on applied logic did not go well?   ...

:lol:     :lol:    :lol:

quality entertainment

- DSK

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

I noticed that the US ranked 59th or so in "freedom to make life choices," behind places like Botswana, Columbia and China.

How did they compare "freedom to make life choices?"  They just asked whether one was satisfied or dissatisfied with their "freedom to make life choices" and added up the binary answers.  Sounds really scientific.  You must have gone to a really great university.  

Actually two of them, how did you know?

Another measure of happiness decline, this one from Gallup

5-1.thumb.png.201ffaf0407213cf344f4294c6391e64.png

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The pro future crowd should start up a public shaming campaign like is used for Johns arrested hiring sex (a sexist label I must decry in the interest of gender equality) and women wearing furs when I was a kid.     Hackers need to start mining stupid quotes like JZK loves to provide, identifying the posters and shame them in their communities, in front of their grandkids and preserve their idiocy for future mockery.   Abusing one trafficked woman for sex is bad.   Screwing a planet is surely worse, at least in the eyes of those who will be alive in 2070. 

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3 minutes ago, Lark said:

The pro future crowd should start up a public shaming campaign like is used for Johns arrested hiring sex (a sexist label I must decry in the interest of gender equality) and women wearing furs when I was a kid.     Hackers need to start mining stupid quotes like JZK loves to provide, identifying the posters and shame them in their communities, in front of their grandkids and preserve their idiocy for future mockery.   Abusing one trafficked woman for sex is bad.   Screwing a planet is surely worse, at least in the eyes of those who will be alive in 2070. 

I toy with the idea that some of the rightie-retardo posters here are actually radical leftists, possibly Trotskyites, who are being carefully coached in how to best appear as cartoonish right-wing figures. That they are deliberately posting stupid amoral rantings in an effort to discredit The Right.

But something just tells me, that is not really the case.

- DSK

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The doco I posted on another thread about a Cuban sugar cane cutter . .

gets at the idea that money and happiness are not necessarily related. 

(By the way, that whole Wocomo cook series is outstanding. AJ sez "check it out!")

 

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18 minutes ago, Lark said:

The pro future crowd should start up a public shaming campaign like is used for Johns arrested hiring sex (a sexist label I must decry in the interest of gender equality) and women wearing furs when I was a kid.     Hackers need to start mining stupid quotes like JZK loves to provide, identifying the posters and shame them in their communities, in front of their grandkids and preserve their idiocy for future mockery.   Abusing one trafficked woman for sex is bad.   Screwing a planet is surely worse, at least in the eyes of those who will be alive in 2070. 

Screwing a planet?  It is getting greener.  

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth

 

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1 minute ago, Lark said:

Yep, my grass has stayed green and muddy almost all winter here in Ohio.   

You live in a green, fertile part of the world with abundant fresh water.  Sounds like a crisis.  All your state needs now is, perhaps, some education.

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2 hours ago, El Boracho said:

I can tell you with 100% confidence that no matter the results of a possibly flawed survey the people in the Philippines, of all places, are far happier than US residents. I go back and forth frequently. No comparison. They are not meeting many goals, though, that is for sure. But is that happiness? I would measure happiness as the opposite of sad, grumpy, angry, hateful. Ya know, the opposite of Trump-like.

For starters, they have no illusions about being 'Great'. Whatever that is. And the concept of 'Again' gets no traction either in a society living in the moment.

So it is not hard to imagine 58 other countries with happier people than the USA.

Curious what’s their take on the extrajudicial killing of drug dealers?  Also aren’t there a bunch of terrorist gangs running aroundd the countryside.  That would not make me very happy...

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1 minute ago, Fakenews said:

Curious what’s their take on the extrajudicial killing of drug dealers?  Also aren’t there a bunch of terrorist gangs running around the countryside.  That would not make me very happy...

They wonder what your take is on the regular killing of school children. Seriously. That does not play well overseas.

The killing of schoolchildren in America is headline news far more than B-movie gangster-police action. Kinda a stark contrast, no? Nor have I ever seen or heard of terrorist gangs running around the countryside other than the complex religious and class warfare underway in parts of Mindanao.

That America is doing absolutely nothing about the murder of school children is most astonishing to the filipino. Especially in light of America's keen interest in the internal affairs of the Philippines.

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3 hours ago, El Boracho said:

That America is doing absolutely nothing about the murder of school children is most astonishing to the filipino.

and others .

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29 minutes ago, Mid said:
4 hours ago, El Boracho said:

That America is doing absolutely nothing about the murder of school children is most astonishing to the filipino.

and others .

Including a lot of Americans

- DSK

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34 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

fkn' shameless c-nt... 

it'sa an obvious load of crap , Oz is desert in the middle , pic shows green :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Mid said:

it'sa an obvious load of crap , Oz is desert in the middle , pic shows green :rolleyes:

jerkZ is human trash.

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On 1/25/2020 at 2:47 PM, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think we have made a major discovery here. This is not the essence of every political schtick at all. Real leaders do not lead by promoting fear. There are higher human values that a country can be built around. It is sad that you cannot see that.

Has anyone alive in the US seen that?

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21 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:
On 1/25/2020 at 3:47 PM, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think we have made a major discovery here. This is not the essence of every political schtick at all. Real leaders do not lead by promoting fear. There are higher human values that a country can be built around. It is sad that you cannot see that.

Has anyone alive in the US seen that?

Yes.

There are many leaders who do not promote fear.

- DSK

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23 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

Has anyone alive in the US seen that?

 

Barack_Obama_Hope_poster.jpg

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes.

There are many leaders who do not promote fear.

- DSK

Like who?

 

The Drunk,

It certainly wasn't Obama, he rode the Bush train on fear mongering all the way to the stop.

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2 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

Like who?

 

The Drunk,

It certainly wasn't Obama, he rode the Bush train on fear mongering all the way to the stop.

Really?

What wars did Obama start, based on fear, again?

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Really?

What wars did Obama start, based on fear, again?

- DSK

Continuing military actions isn't the same thing to you?

What was the reason for continuing to burn resources and dollars?

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12 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:
4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

What wars did Obama start, based on fear, again?

- DSK

Continuing military actions isn't the same thing to you?

What was the reason for continuing to burn resources and dollars?

Seriously, continuing a war is the same as starting one?

As for the reason, if you grant that the whole Iraq War was for the profit of Cheney's inner circle (with a bone tossed to the usual suspects on Wall St), then Obama should have called a screeching halt the minute after he took the Oath of Office the first time. However 1- the right-wingers would have cussed and dissed him even more than they already did, and 2- it would have been a rather precarious operation.

FWIW I'd have preferred Obama to ramp down the US military effort more than he did. Including droning their asses.

But it's difficult to justify saying that he started anything, or his continuing was the same as starting them. So, to repeat the question, did Obama make you afraid?

- DSK

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On 1/26/2020 at 9:22 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Did Obama make you afraid?

- DSK

No

13 hours ago, El Boracho said:

 

Barack_Obama_Hope_poster.jpg

Obama was a manipulator not a leader.  A leader would have actually developed a route to single payer without admitting on film that the ACA was intended to be a mess that could only be saved by single payer.  A leader would convince people instead of needing to go to the supreme court to convince the people that forcing them to buy a commercial product was a tax.  Of course, it has now been shown that it is easy to dump that.

A leader would have gotten the DREAM act through congress to change the existing US immigration law instead of needing to set up a DACA program to circumvent US them.

A leader would have been able to convince the people of his vision and not lost the house after two years and the presidency when his terms expired.

Hope is a wish.  There is an old homily.  Wish in one hand and shit in the other.  See which one fills up first.

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4 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

No

Obama was a manipulator not a leader.  A leader would have actually developed a route to single payer without admitting on film that the ACA was intended to be a mess that could only be saved by single payer.  A leader would convince people instead of needing to go to the supreme court to convince the people that forcing them to buy a commercial product was a tax.  Of course, it has now been shown that it is easy to dump that.

A leader would have gotten the DREAM act through congress to change the existing US immigration law instead of needing to set up a DACA program to circumvent US them.

A leader would have been able to convince the people of his vision and not lost the house after two years and the presidency when his terms expired.

Hope is a wish.  There is an old homily.  Wish in one hand and shit in the other.  See which one fills up first.

He was pragmatic. Obama did what was minimally possible. Yes, somewhat regrettable. But your methods, like any mention of Single Payer, would have had an early demise.

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5 minutes ago, El Boracho said:
12 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

... A leader would have been able to convince the people of his vision and not lost the house after two years and the presidency when his terms expired.

Hope is a wish.  There is an old homily.  Wish in one hand and shit in the other.  See which one fills up first.

He was pragmatic. Obama did what was minimally possible. Yes, somewhat regrettable. But your methods, like any mention of Single Payer, would have had an early demise.

Don't forget "Saorsa" is one of the foxy crowd who hate-hate-HATEs Obama and all his works real or imagined.

I'd like to know how Saorsa would suggest that Obama, as a leader, could convince the Trumpublicans-to-be sign on to a national subsidized health care plan that the insurance companies spent hundreds of millions... possibly a couple billion... lobbying and advertising against. The Trumpublicans-to-be who said "Yeah we'll back you on Syria (snicker)" so they could then jerk the rug out from under him and call him a pussy for his "line in the sand" comments, the Trumpublicans-to-be who shitcanned their own Speaker Of The House because he was too friendly with the Kenyan Muslim.

Yeah, that'll work

- DSK

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46 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

He was pragmatic. Obama did what was minimally possible. Yes, somewhat regrettable. But your methods, like any mention of Single Payer, would have had an early demise.

Doing what is minimally possible does not require or indicate leadership.  That's the fucking point.

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39 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Don't forget "Saorsa" is one of the foxy crowd who hate-hate-HATEs Obama and all his works real or imagined.

I'd like to know how Saorsa would suggest that Obama, as a leader, could convince the Trumpublicans-to-be sign on to a national subsidized health care plan that the insurance companies spent hundreds of millions... possibly a couple billion... lobbying and advertising against. The Trumpublicans-to-be who said "Yeah we'll back you on Syria (snicker)" so they could then jerk the rug out from under him and call him a pussy for his "line in the sand" comments, the Trumpublicans-to-be who shitcanned their own Speaker Of The House because he was too friendly with the Kenyan Muslim.

Yeah, that'll work

- DSK

Actually, rolling over for the Russians in Syria ws the worst example of Obama and his foreign policy.  Kerry's "That'll never happen" speech was the high point for Putin.

Closely followed by letting them take the Crimea.

HIllary_Clinton_Russia_Reset_Button_Imag

Seen any real benefits like that from Trump?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Doing what is minimally possible does not require or indicate leadership.  That's the fucking point.

Doing the impossible is leadership? I suppose my words can be parsed different ways depending on the meaning given to possible. “It is literally possible that today’s Senate will do the right thing....however unlikely.”

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20 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Doing what is minimally possible does not require or indicate leadership.  That's the fucking point.

When he started out, he had to save the economy from the actions of the previous administration, while managing the catastrophe of Iraq & Afghanistan also started by the previous administration.  That leaves little time or energy  for doing positive policies.

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Joe Stiglitz' new book is pretty tough on Obama for going easy on the banksters. 

Obama was a corporate dem., but still squeaky-clean honest, and a world better than what we have now. 

And Saorsista is still lying. 

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On 1/26/2020 at 9:36 AM, Fakenews said:

Common denominators in that list

1) Socialized medicine

2) Strict gun and assault weapon control

Add to that the U.S. is one of the most, if not the most, targeted countries for cyber attacks.  A lot of that is the American people being bombarded with divisive propaganda.  And too many of us buy it.  

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Actually, rolling over for the Russians in Syria ws the worst example of Obama and his foreign policy.  Kerry's "That'll never happen" speech was the high point for Putin.

Closely followed by letting them take the Crimea.

HIllary_Clinton_Russia_Reset_Button_Imag

Seen any real benefits like that from Trump?

 

 

Obama did not "roll over for the Russians" in Syria, you're mistaking him for Trump.

Obama stated his policy clearly, that he would not commit US military to ground combat, even in an "advisory role," without the support of Congress. The Republican Congress assured him of it's support. He then made his statements about red lines etc etc; Congress suddenly forgot it's promise of support and Obama kept his word about not commiting forces.

What should he have done? IMHO not trusted the Trumpublicans-to-be, who even then were lying snakes in the grass. But he wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.

And of course, you conveniently remember the party line not the truth.

Trump pulled out of Syria suddenly, on a threat from Turkey, and Russian troops occupied our base the next day.

- DSK

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Ahhh yes, the infamous red line...... didn't it get rubbed out and moved or simply forgotten, for convenience ?

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5 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

When he started out, he had to save the economy from the actions of the previous administration, while managing the catastrophe of Iraq & Afghanistan also started by the previous administration.  That leaves little time or energy  for doing positive policies.

Don't get me wrong, Bush couldn't have fucked the economy any better had he used his wrinkled Texas cock, but the housing bullshit that triggered everything was a Clinton sign off.

I love that you folks think red and blue are different teams.  You're happy to bend over and let whatever team you root for fuck you, but you cry in the shower with blood running out your ass when it's the other team.

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1 hour ago, Hatin' life said:

Don't get me wrong, Bush couldn't have fucked the economy any better had he used his wrinkled Texas cock, but the housing bullshit that triggered everything was a Clinton sign off.

I love that you folks think red and blue are different teams.  You're happy to bend over and let whatever team you root for fuck you, but you cry in the shower with blood running out your ass when it's the other team.

That ain't so. Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Gramm then became a UBS Vice Chairman. GLB removed the line between commercial banks and investment banks. It allowed commercial banks to become broadly more risky but it didn't enable anything specifically in the housing sector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm–Leach–Bliley_Act

The housing bullshit was all W---and no ACORN---with W's ownership society nonsense which backed zero down loans.

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040809-9.html

These are different things.

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Equal housing act.  Forced banks to loan money to people that had no business doing so.

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1 minute ago, Hatin' life said:

Equal housing act.  Forced banks to loan money to people that had no business doing so.

Bullshit.

Republican driven changes in bank laws allowed banks to sell mortgages, so that banks originating mortgages didn't care if the people could afford it. Any old way to scrape up a dollar.

Of course, you love the Team R! narrative of blaming those darn poor people, trying to buy houses.... the gall!! Take a look and see how many bank CEOs missed any meals in the crisis, then think about who should get your sympathy (if any)

- DSK

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If you say so.

 

Haha, you know fuck all about me steam flyer, and what I support.  Thanks for trying though.

Poor people should buy what they can afford.  Why doesn't that make sense?  Why do you want to enslave them with debt?

 

Why do you think the mortgages were packaged up and sold off?  The banks knew they were garbage.  Why would they make garbage mortgages?

 

Of course the banks came out on top.  Bush and Obama gave them all your money and called it a bailout instead of letting them fail like they should have.

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8 hours ago, Olsonist said:

There is no Equal Housing Act. Facts matter. There was something called Community Reinvestment Act but it didn't force banks to do anything. It dates to 1977. It was changed in 1989, 1991 and 1992. Clinton tweaked regulations in 1995.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act#Regulatory_changes_1995

There you go, I had the name wrong.  That's what loosened up the lending laws when it was tweaked by the Clinton administration.

 

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2 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

If you say so.

 

Haha, you know fuck all about me steam flyer, and what I support.  Thanks for trying though.

Poor people should buy what they can afford.  Why doesn't that make sense?  Why do you want to enslave them with debt?

 

Why do you think the mortgages were packaged up and sold off?  The banks knew they were garbage.  Why would they make garbage mortgages?

 

Of course the banks came out on top.  Bush and Obama gave them all your money and called it a bailout instead of letting them fail like they should have.

Why is it poor peoples fault, rather than the people who wrote fraudulent mortgages and sold them to the banks? 

Why would they make garbage mortgages? Because Bush/Cheney's SEC stopped doing some kinds of audits, and the odds were high that they could sell them to another "bank." And I use the word "bank" in quotation marks because they weren't really banks. They were on-paper financial businesses that only originated and sold, or bought and sold, mortgages. In many cases the business itself was bought and sold.

Why? Because they were making money.

And it's the poor peoples'fault (sez certain folk), many of whom are working two jobs, most of whom tried hard to keep their homes when it would have made more financial sense to walk away, many of whom had a bad mortgage written on a home they'd owned for years.

Oh and we need LESS REGULATION!! That's right, accord to right-wing fuck-heads, this whole thing would never have happened if only the darn intrusive gubbermint would keep it's nose out of the banks' business!

This is right-wing fuck-head thinking: it can't possibly be the fault of good white business men, it must be the fault of those poor people... and the gubbermint of course.

If you agree with right-wing fuck-head logic, it's not my fault.

FWIW I agree with you about the bail out. They should have gotten a kick in the nuts along with no money.

- DSK

 

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5 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

There you go, I had the name wrong.  That's what loosened up the lending laws when it was tweaked by the Clinton administration.

Negative. Clinton changed the CRA to reduce/eliminate redlining. In Lloyd Bentsen's words,

The only thing that ought to matter on a loan application is whether or not you can pay it back, not where you live.

The big jump in foreclosures came under W after his Let's Give Federally Guaranteed Mortgages To People Without Income program. The Kenyan then got stuck with the problem.

image.png.f1e854a34e3210831093cefe09d34bd8.png

(Hard to find a chart showing the 90s since the 2000s were so bad.)

https://voxeu.org/article/mortgage-delinquency-and-foreclosure-uk

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By the way, the Kenyan didn't roll back Clinton's anti-redlining reforms.

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On 1/24/2020 at 11:12 AM, Mid said:

Doomsday Clock moves closest to midnight in its 73-year history

 

No politics here. Reminds me of the voodoo math behind climate deadlines. 

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6 hours ago, Pun Slinger said:

No politics here. Reminds me of the voodoo math behind climate deadlines. 

You remind me of the yoo hoo math behind the killing of Bin Laden.

 

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The clock is past its use by date. For years, more than half a century in fact, it has sat there telling us we are fucked. Moving a gnats foreskin backwards and forwards, but always in the you are fucked area. Which makes sense, the clue is in the name after all.

The problem is we humans don't do long term stuff very well. After a bit we just go, 'yeah whatever, we're all going to die' and go sailing, or jerking off, etc. So who cares about the 'doomsday' clock any more - no one that has a life. Just more chicken little bullshit. Much like Greta but with a big hand and a little hand.

 

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Bernie 2020