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hrothgar

Elizabeth Warren's Plan to Forgive Student Loan Debt

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Show me one time I said "vote D". I have only ever said vote Trump out.

And I only "hate" the right wing extremist criminals, not legitimate conservative views.

I only regard those as being fearful of change and a drag on human progress. ;)

Ya know, you've got a point - you never explicitly said "Vote D" - just "your the problem if you vote R" .   

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Then why is your answer to anything to "Vote D, hate the right"?    Sorry - your objectivity halo is a little tarnished, making it hard to see. 

Nobody has given you an answer like that.

It's what you see when you've got your right-wing hate-spew colored glasses on.

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nobody has given you an answer like that.

It's what you see when you've got your right-wing hate-spew colored glasses on.

- DSK

I'll let you go thru the archives if you'd like - refuting this isn't worth my effort.  "right wing hate spew" - yeah, that's me alright. 

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15 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I'll let you go thru the archives if you'd like - refuting this isn't worth my effort.  "right wing hate spew" - yeah, that's me alright. 

You've already been asked to point out who/when you've been told to "Vote Team D!" but you can't seem to justify your accusations in reality

You might as well jump and go all-in being a Trumpalo. Clearly you are not willing to even make mouth noise about supporting the US Constitution and holding your elected officials responsible for their actions. All you see is, failing to support TEAM R!! must mean going full fag-Dem

And you want to urge everyone to play nice and get along.

- DSK

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22 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I'll let you go thru the archives if you'd like - refuting this isn't worth my effort.  "right wing hate spew" - yeah, that's me alright. 

You are fine with right wing hate spew from your gunnut buddys. You like rightwing hatespew from the shitposting rightwing trolls. The archive shows that.

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Clearly you are not willing to even make mouth noise about supporting the US Constitution and holding your elected officials responsible for their actions. All you see is, failing to support TEAM R!! must mean going full fag-Dem

 

Guy wants people to think 'i don't disagree with that' is the same as 'I agree with that'

it's not

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

You've already been asked to point out who/when you've been told to "Vote Team D!" but you can't seem to justify your accusations in reality

You might as well jump and go all-in being a Trumpalo. Clearly you are not willing to even make mouth noise about supporting the US Constitution and holding your elected officials responsible for their actions. All you see is, failing to support TEAM R!! must mean going full fag-Dem

And you want to urge everyone to play nice and get along.

- DSK

Of course sweetheart - my unwillingness to accept your baseless projections are evidence of my right-wing hate-spew and active support for all that you hate.  Wasn't it just this morning that you were refuting claims that you project your BS as others' positions?    

I can easily point out SEVERAL that have said "Vote D or else"  -  but, I'm not willing to expend the effort to satisfy your specious questions and accusations.  It's in the archives - prove it didn't happen.   

Again - you are perfectly demonstrating the fallacy of arguing something you're saying is explicit proof of support for the thing you're arguing against.   Wonderful example Steamers - I do appreciate it. 

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42 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Ya know, you've got a point - you never explicitly said "Vote D" - just "your the problem if you vote R" .   

You are. The Republican Party is the party of Trump. They enable him, they pay his legal bills, they buy his familys books, they give his businesses money.

You have a simple choice - dump Trump and his congressional lackeys or else.

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You are. The Republican Party is the party of Trump. They enable him, they pay his legal bills, they buy his familys books, they give his businesses money.

You have a simple choice - dump Trump and his congressional lackeys or else.

Fuck - I've gotta stop hitting "show me new replies".   

You're still intentionally avoiding the point - the desire to "dump Trump" shouldn't preclude or replace a candidate having something to offer besides "dump Trump".   Wanting that doesn't imply "I'm voting for Trump unless" - it means what I've consistently said, for years, that I want to have something to vote FOR.   Go ahead - can't wait to see how y'all try to spin that. 

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Of course sweetheart - my unwillingness to accept your baseless projections are evidence of my right-wing hate-spew and active support for all that you hate.  Wasn't it just this morning that you were refuting claims that you project your BS as others' positions?    

I can easily point out SEVERAL that have said "Vote D or else"  -  but, I'm not willing to expend the effort to satisfy your specious questions and accusations.  It's in the archives - prove it didn't happen.   

Again - you are perfectly demonstrating the fallacy of arguing something you're saying is explicit proof of support for the thing you're arguing against.   Wonderful example Steamers - I do appreciate it. 

Go ahead.

I've never said so, or anything resembling it. Nor has SJB. It was responding to us that you've made this claim

It's obvious that unless you vote AGAINST the crooked TeamR! playahs you claim to not support, they will continue to not give a fuck what you think of them. They believe they have you by the balls and can do whatever they want. As long as you play that way, they DO have you by the balls

And you blame me for pointing this out.

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Blow me Clean - you know better than that. 

As soon as you stop with the double negatives, I'll know better than that.

You've done it twice today already. "I don't disagree with that" is some bullshit.

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Go ahead.

I've never said so, or anything resembling it. Nor has SJB. It was responding to us that you've made this claim

It's obvious that unless you vote AGAINST the crooked TeamR! playahs you claim to not support, they will continue to not give a fuck what you think of them. They believe they have you by the balls and can do whatever they want. As long as you play that way, they DO have you by the balls

 And you blame me for pointing this out.

- DSK

No - I blame you for lying, projecting, being hateful, conflation and for conversational dishonesty for pretending that you don't do those things.  No problems with real opinions, no issue at all with expressing disagreement with mine.  That's how discussion is supposed to go.  Ignoring what someone says and responding instead to the lies and projections that YOU baselessly proffer as their position?  yeah - that warrants nothing but ridicule.   

As to Vote D?  I'll say two things - go thru the archives, query on Vote and Philly or Flash.  Additionally - "You're evil if you ever vote R" is easily understood to mean that if you don't vote the opposite?  You're evil.  So - Go away with your false sanctimony and offense - I'm not buying any of it. 

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

As soon as you stop with the double negatives, I'll know better than that.

You've done it twice today already. "I don't disagree with that" is some bullshit.

If you say so.   I don't recall doing anything like that, and didn't find any instances of that in the archives, but, if you've got something specific in mind, spit it out. 

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3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

And BTW, a lot of the student loan predation has been for non-uni education - skilled trades of one sort or another.

Not in the trade unions.  That is free.

As far as everything I have read, most predation has happened in the for-profit schools.  Since the Bush law, they have flourished.

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13 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I don't recall doing anything like that,

 

2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 I don't disagree with your opinion of Trump and what's gone on in his cabinet.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Fuck - I've gotta stop hitting "show me new replies".   

You're still intentionally avoiding the point - the desire to "dump Trump" shouldn't preclude or replace a candidate having something to offer besides "dump Trump".   Wanting that doesn't imply "I'm voting for Trump unless" - it means what I've consistently said, for years, that I want to have something to vote FOR.   Go ahead - can't wait to see how y'all try to spin that. 

Vote for the rule of law.

Vote for accountability.

Vote for checks and balances again.

Im sorry you and the elk can’t admit the Republican Party went off a cliff.

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3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:
2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 I don't disagree with your opinion of Trump and what's gone on in his cabinet.

 

 

I swear to goodness - I did a search on that very phrase.  To that instance?  I was good w/the opinion of Trump and the cabinet's behavior, but, not with many of the other things Sloops was saying.  Clumsy wording, but, it wasn't intended to talk outta both sides of my mouth, and if you read it, you know that. 

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39 minutes ago, Jules said:

Not in the trade unions.  That is free.

As far as everything I have read, most predation has happened in the for-profit schools.  Since the Bush law, they have flourished.

Meant to reply to your earlier comment about the lenders handing out money on campus, which could be spent on having a good time...

I have not seen that, but then I don't have kids or hang out on campus these days... that sort of loan should not be sheltered from bankruptcy in the same way that educational loans are. It's pure fraud and abuse of the system.

However, in America the land of equality before the law, some animals are unfortunately more equal than others.

The only objection I would have to hanging the moneylenders from a lamppost is to make sure we get the right ones. There are a bunch who skated out back 2008~2009 who ought to be eligible, too

- DSK

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59 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Fuck - I've gotta stop hitting "show me new replies".   

You're still intentionally avoiding the point - the desire to "dump Trump" shouldn't preclude or replace a candidate having something to offer besides "dump Trump".   Wanting that doesn't imply "I'm voting for Trump unless" - it means what I've consistently said, for years, that I want to have something to vote FOR.   Go ahead - can't wait to see how y'all try to spin that. 

Except that the only person you can ever vote FOR is a card-carrying R. Note I don't say conservative. The elk don't vote conservative, haven't since Bush the Greater.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Except that the only person you can ever vote FOR is a card-carrying R. Note I don't say conservative. The elk don't vote conservative, haven't since Bush the Greater.

You know better than THAT too, Flash.  I know that I talked in here about voting AGAINST our local R congresswoman ( Barb Comstock) in the last election, because she voted FOR the Tax cut package.   It was hard, because I've personally met and like her - she's a sharp, squared away person, but, she succumbed to part pressure and voted for something that cost all of us a lot.  

So go piss up a rope with *your* BS and projections too.   

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9 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You know better than THAT too, Flash.  I know that I talked in here about voting AGAINST our local R congresswoman ( Barb Comstock) in the last election, because she voted FOR the Tax cut package.   It was hard, because I've personally met and like her - she's a sharp, squared away person, but, she succumbed to part pressure and voted for something that cost all of us a lot.  

So go piss up a rope with *your* BS and projections too.   

That's going out on a ledge there man! Whoa!

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's what you see when you've got your right-wing hate-spew colored glasses on.

- DSK

I'll let you go thru the archives if you'd like - refuting this isn't worth my effort.  "right wing hate spew" - yeah, that's me alright. 

:lol:  Of course it is.  If you're not in total lockstep with them and agree with them on everything, the ONLY alternative is you must be a mushroom smoking, cheeto loving far right hateful extremist.  There is no middle ground for them, much less any nuance of positions.  

What I find fascinating here in PA as a microcosm of society is that our society has become almost entirely binary.  And If you're not binary, then you are the anti-christ herself because they struggle to put you in a nice convenient box for their simple minds to comprehend. 

For instance, I likely far more agree with the D's on most of the big social issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc. while I lean more to conservative values on economics.  Not the current GOP are not traditional economic conservatives, but there are some current policies I do still support.  I certainly don't let party dogma drive my view on any one position and I'm all over the map on many issues.  Yet, because I do support some current GOP and POTUS policies, I must be ALL IN with trumplethinskin on all other issues.  I suspect you @A guy in the Chesapeake are much the same.  Its confounding to the binary thinkers here to not be able to label you easily.  Yet they never stop trying.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

You've already been asked to point out who/when you've been told to "Vote Team D!" but you can't seem to justify your accusations in reality

You might as well jump and go all-in being a Trumpalo. Clearly you are not willing to even make mouth noise about supporting the US Constitution and holding your elected officials responsible for their actions. All you see is, failing to support TEAM R!! must mean going full fag-Dem

And you want to urge everyone to play nice and get along.

- DSK

See what I mean ^^.  Thanks for making my point so starkly.  

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You are. The Republican Party is the party of Trump. They enable him, they pay his legal bills, they buy his familys books, they give his businesses money.

You have a simple choice - dump Trump and his congressional lackeys or else.

Or else what???

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4 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

:lol:  Of course it is.  If you're not in total lockstep with them and agree with them on everything, the ONLY alternative is you must be a mushroom smoking, cheeto loving far right hateful extremist.  There is no middle ground for them, much less any nuance of positions.  

What I find fascinating here in PA as a microcosm of society is that our society has become almost entirely binary.  And If you're not binary, then you are the anti-christ herself because they struggle to put you in a nice convenient box for their simple minds to comprehend. 

For instance, I likely far more agree with the D's on most of the big social issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc. while I lean more to conservative values on economics.  Not the current GOP are not traditional economic conservatives, but there are some current policies I do still support.  I certainly don't let party dogma drive my view on any one position and I'm all over the map on many issues.  Yet, because I do support some current GOP and POTUS policies, I must be ALL IN with trumplethinskin on all other issues.  I suspect you @A guy in the Chesapeake are much the same.  Its confounding to the binary thinkers here to not be able to label you easily.  Yet they never stop trying.

:lol: yer so independent and free thinking :lol:

“conservative values” on economics says the clown who’s now against free trade*

*except for the stuff that makes his luxury mercenary life possible 

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1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

See what I mean ^^.  Thanks for making my point so starkly.  

So, go ahead and point out all the times I've been cheerleading for "Team D!"

You can't, because I haven't ever. OTOH I have vigorously pointed out the many evils that "TeamR!" have perpetrated, and this looks to you (and AGITC) like fag-Dem cheerleading... even I've also criticised a number of major Democratic Party leaders too.

Always with facts, of course. That's kinda my thing. Facts are uncomfortable, unpopular things.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

As soon as you stop with the double negatives, I'll know better than that.

You've done it twice today already. "I don't disagree with that" is some bullshit.

I disagree.  Saying "I don't disagree with that" =/= outright agreement.  I take it more as a neutral feeling.  I can say I don't disagree with that as in I don't dispute the underlying facts, but I can still not necessarily agree with the policy.

You do understand that nuance, right?

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16 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

That's going out on a ledge there man! Whoa!

??????  Sorry - pulling my head out of a transition for a breather while I think up some more right-wing hate-spew.   What do ya mean? 

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38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Meant to reply to your earlier comment about the lenders handing out money on campus, which could be spent on having a good time...

I have not seen that, but then I don't have kids or hang out on campus these days... 

Well, at my small Uni there were credit card companies handing out cards left and right to 18 year olds with predictable results. 

I wound up doing quite a bit of credit counseling in my classes. 

Lots of people, not just young ones, are not very good with money - and become prey for the modern loan sharks. 

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9 hours ago, Saorsa said:

I've read a lot of your posts.  That kinda went without saying.

Thanks! I appreciate the compliment.

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20 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

??????  Sorry - pulling my head out of a transition for a breather while I think up some more right-wing hate-spew.   What do ya mean? 

This one time, back in band camp, I actually voted D. It was a trip man!

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Just now, Raz'r said:

This one time, back in band camp, I actually voted D. It was a trip man!

Thanks for explaining - head's spinning a little and I wasn't sure what you meant.   It's not been just one time, but, it's indeed a rare occurrence. 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

that sort of loan should not be sheltered from bankruptcy in the same way that educational loans are.

You aren't implying there is justification for sheltering school loans for bankruptcy.  Are you?

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I swear to goodness - I did a search on that very phrase.  To that instance?  I was good w/the opinion of Trump and the cabinet's behavior, but, not with many of the other things Sloops was saying.  Clumsy wording, but, it wasn't intended to talk outta both sides of my mouth, and if you read it, you know that. 

I believe you.  If you remove the term "I don't disagree with" from your vocabulary, you won't have to worry about misleading anyone.  "Practice positive", as my old nonfiction writing prof used to say.

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59 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I disagree.  Saying "I don't disagree with that" =/= outright agreement.  I take it more as a neutral feeling.  I can say I don't disagree with that as in I don't dispute the underlying facts, but I can still not necessarily agree with the policy.

You do understand that nuance, right?

the nuance that you like to use tautology to make arguments?  Yes, I understand that.  

that you equate the use of double negatives as 'nuance' explains you quite well

 

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, at my small Uni there were credit card companies handing out cards left and right to 18 year olds with predictable results. 

I wound up doing quite a bit of credit counseling in my classes. 

Lots of people, not just young ones, are not very good with money - and become prey for the modern loan sharks. 

The student loan crisis is the same as the housing loan crisis.  Banksters see an opportunity for some easy money and off they go looking for a get rich quick scheme.  And it's a lot easier when the targets are kids, as you obviously know. 

To banksters, money is a drug.  During the housing loan crisis, they literally broke the bank getting rich, then went crying to mommy government to bail them out.  So it's not just 18 year olds who aren't very good with money. 

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From what I can tell, the resistance is along the lines of “well, yeah, it’s good for the economy, but I didn’t get it so they can’t get it either!”

sounds a bit like grumpy old men bitching.

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

For instance, I likely far more agree with the D's on most of the big social issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc. while I lean more to conservative values on economics.  Not the current GOP are not traditional economic conservatives, but there are some current policies I do still support.  I certainly don't let party dogma drive my view on any one position and I'm all over the map on many issues.  Yet, because I do support some current GOP and POTUS policies, I must be ALL IN with trumplethinskin on all other issues.  I suspect you @A guy in the Chesapeake are much the same.  Its confounding to the binary thinkers here to not be able to label you easily.  Yet they never stop trying.

Personally, I'm not even particularly 'fiscally conservative' - I just want to be fiscally honest.  What drives me nuts is 'off books' war funding and '10 years of tax revenue to pay for 6 years of benefits' and calling it cost neutral.  I get annoyed when people hand wring over 'wealth inequality' like it's some mystery.. The Fed dumped 4 TRILLION dollars into financial vehicles - guess what..the folks that were invested in said vehicles did FUCKING AWESOME.  SHOCKING.  The Asians and Russians have been hiding money (estimates are about 7 TRILLION) in real estate.. ALSO SHOCKING.  I can't believe there's gambling in this establishment!  The corresponding value of real estate (in the areas they bought up) has SKYROCKETED.

I like the space program.  I like alternative energy.  I like after school programs and anti-gang sport leagues.  I like soft power and would love to see more bribes (sorry.. financial incentives?) and less guns.  I like mental health programs and drug treatment options and diabetes screening and more parks I'm even in favor of free Nexplanon for any woman that wants it.

This thread is about forgiving student loan debt.  Great - if you want to debate 'economic stimulus' merits of forgiving a trillion dollars in debt, that's a fine argument to have.  But don't pretend that has anything to do with education.  It doesn't. Its excusing debt already incurred. 

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1 hour ago, Jules said:
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

that sort of loan should not be sheltered from bankruptcy in the same way that educational loans are.

You aren't implying there is justification for sheltering school loans for bankruptcy.  Are you?

Sure there is. It makes more money available for education, because lenders will be more forthcoming.

What, you don't want more kids to be able to go to college?

Problem... it very quickly leads to all kinds of abuse... it's more of a cliff than a slippery slope

- DSK

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sure there is. It makes more money available for education, because lenders will be more forthcoming.

What, you don't want more kids to be able to go to college?

Problem... it very quickly leads to all kinds of abuse... it's more of a cliff than a slippery slope

- DSK

Huh?  Before that law was passed countless kids received school loans.  All that law did was open the door to predatory lending.

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4 minutes ago, Jules said:
9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sure there is. It makes more money available for education, because lenders will be more forthcoming.

What, you don't want more kids to be able to go to college?

Problem... it very quickly leads to all kinds of abuse... it's more of a cliff than a slippery slope

 

Huh?  Before that law was passed countless kids received school loans.  All that law did was open the door to predatory lending.

Like I said, quickly leads to all kinds of abuse.

Credit card debt was exploding on campus way back when I went to college (New GI Bill, thank you). That's not sheltered from bankruptcy, is it?? That would -REALLY- be an abuse of the system.

There may be slight rational justification for sheltering college loans from bankruptcy, that doesn't mean I agree with it. I certainly don't like the abuses it's led to. My personal feeling is that we should hang a few credit financiers from lampposts, as an example for the others

- DSK

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11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Like I said, quickly leads to all kinds of abuse.

Credit card debt was exploding on campus way back when I went to college (New GI Bill, thank you). That's not sheltered from bankruptcy, is it?? That would -REALLY- be an abuse of the system.

There may be slight rational justification for sheltering college loans from bankruptcy, that doesn't mean I agree with it. I certainly don't like the abuses it's led to. My personal feeling is that we should hang a few credit financiers from lampposts, as an example for the others

- DSK

Credit card debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy. Student Loans are not (easily). There exist fraud provisions in the bankruptcy code to prevent abuse. There are ways this can be fixed without using a hammer.

 

Capital One CEO said some years back the ideal client for a C  is someone with a job who just came out of bankruptcy. It’s years of profitable interest.

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6 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

I sympathize with your plight - you are in the same situation as millions of other USAeans 

But we have to understand how we got into this mess . . 

It has been the GOP that has led the way nationally in lowering (by a lot) state subsidies to public unis. 

....

When the GOP wins, average people lose. 

 

Yes, there has been a political effort over many years to change schools from institutions to corporations. It is the American Way, though it was not always that way. Same with today’s hospitals. The philosophy has changed - much for the worse.

Is there some way to swing back the other way? If there is it is certainly not a plank in any recent GOP platform.

Maybe it was of the Universities own making: They churned out an army of MBAs, each a foot soldier for capitalism.

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2 hours ago, El Boracho said:

 . . .an army of MBAs, each a foot soldier for capitalism.

Well yes, to many of that elk human beans are "inputs"

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8 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

the nuance that you like to use tautology to make arguments?  Yes, I understand that.  

that you equate the use of double negatives as 'nuance' explains you quite well

 

Fuck off Alan.  I am nothing if not the epitome of positive sentence structure.  The USAF pretty much beat out of me the use of passive voice in written communication.  Active voice is the Holy grail of Military writing. 

Irregardless, saying I don't disagree with something is not a double negative.  It conveys exactly what I said above:  i.e. a non-dispute of the facts but not necessarily an endorsement of the writer's opinion or statement.  

I don't disagree with the common perception here that you're an ass.  

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17 hours ago, Raz'r said:

From what I can tell, the resistance is along the lines of “well, yeah, it’s good for the economy, but I didn’t get it so they can’t get it either!”

sounds a bit like grumpy old men bitching.

Refresh me again, how is going another $2.2T in debt to pay for this "good for the economy"?

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17 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Personally, I'm not even particularly 'fiscally conservative' - I just want to be fiscally honest.  What drives me nuts is 'off books' war funding and '10 years of tax revenue to pay for 6 years of benefits' and calling it cost neutral.  I get annoyed when people hand wring over 'wealth inequality' like it's some mystery.. The Fed dumped 4 TRILLION dollars into financial vehicles - guess what..the folks that were invested in said vehicles did FUCKING AWESOME.  SHOCKING.  The Asians and Russians have been hiding money (estimates are about 7 TRILLION) in real estate.. ALSO SHOCKING.  I can't believe there's gambling in this establishment!  The corresponding value of real estate (in the areas they bought up) has SKYROCKETED.

I like the space program.  I like alternative energy.  I like after school programs and anti-gang sport leagues.  I like soft power and would love to see more bribes (sorry.. financial incentives?) and less guns.  I like mental health programs and drug treatment options and diabetes screening and more parks I'm even in favor of free Nexplanon for any woman that wants it.

This thread is about forgiving student loan debt.  Great - if you want to debate 'economic stimulus' merits of forgiving a trillion dollars in debt, that's a fine argument to have.  But don't pretend that has anything to do with education.  It doesn't. Its excusing debt already incurred. 

I don't disagree with any of that :D

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6 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 

Irregardless

i give up

 

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7 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

i give up

 

You'll be much happier now.

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4 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:
9 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Irregardless

i give up

You can't have a conversation with a tree stump

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16 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Like I said, quickly leads to all kinds of abuse.

Credit card debt was exploding on campus way back when I went to college (New GI Bill, thank you). That's not sheltered from bankruptcy, is it?? That would -REALLY- be an abuse of the system.

There may be slight rational justification for sheltering college loans from bankruptcy, that doesn't mean I agree with it. I certainly don't like the abuses it's led to. My personal feeling is that we should hang a few credit financiers from lampposts, as an example for the others

- DSK

I liken the current student debt "crisis" to the subprime crisis.  The easy availability of subprime loans meant that a lot of people bought houses that likely never should have been allowed to because they were never going to be able to repay them.  But the availability of easy money drive housing prices through the roof and costs of ownership skyrocketed. 

The student loan scheme is pretty much the same.... lots of kids who likely were never going to graduate from college went anyway once money was easy to get.  It's a laudable goal to open doors to college for low income kids.  But if they are not prepared for college and unlikely to succeed, it's a waste of their money and will burden them for life if they fail.  The sad reality is that if they are not "saved" in preschool and early grade school - then sending them to college is not doing them any favors.  And like the housing crisis, easy loan money and more people going to college meant schools could raise the costs of tuition as they liked.  It was a seller's market.  

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12 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:
16 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Irregardless

i give up

 

Bazinga!  

Now THAT, ladies - was a troll and I caught a big, fat, bald fish with it.  :lol:

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6 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I liken the current student debt "crisis" to the subprime crisis.  The easy availability of subprime loans meant that a lot of people bought houses that likely never should have been allowed to because they were never going to be able to repay them.  But the availability of easy money drive housing prices through the roof and costs of ownership skyrocketed. 

The student loan scheme is pretty much the same.... lots of kids who likely were never going to graduate from college went anyway once money was easy to get.  It's a laudable goal to open doors to college for low income kids.  But if they are not prepared for college and unlikely to succeed, it's a waste of their money and will burden them for life if they fail.  The sad reality is that if they are not "saved" in preschool and early grade school - then sending them to college is not doing them any favors.  And like the housing crisis, easy loan money and more people going to college meant schools could raise the costs of tuition as they liked.  It was a seller's market.  

So what you are saying is you should have been able to walk away from your home you never should have been allowed to buy, but fuck the kids.

Thats real independent conservative right there.

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22 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Refresh me again, how is going another $2.2T in debt to pay for this "good for the economy"?

:lol:  Stumps are brighter than Jeffreaux

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8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I liken the current student debt "crisis" to the subprime crisis.  The easy availability of subprime loans meant that a lot of people bought houses that likely never should have been allowed to because they were never going to be able to repay them.  But the availability of easy money drive housing prices through the roof and costs of ownership skyrocketed. 

The student loan scheme is pretty much the same.... lots of kids who likely were never going to graduate from college went anyway once money was easy to get.  It's a laudable goal to open doors to college for low income kids.  But if they are not prepared for college and unlikely to succeed, it's a waste of their money and will burden them for life if they fail.  The sad reality is that if they are not "saved" in preschool and early grade school - then sending them to college is not doing them any favors.  And like the housing crisis, easy loan money and more people going to college meant schools could raise the costs of tuition as they liked.  It was a seller's market.  

And this is really a bundle of "blame-the-victim" in the same way that your righties love to fling shit all over the 2007~2008 meltdown

The sad reality is that most of these loans would not have been issued if it weren't a lock for private profit/public risk. Guaranteed profit for the lenders, increased cash flow for the schools (and notice what percentage of this went thru the hands of private for-profit universities with ties to DeVos).

Toss 'em in the deep end to sink or swim, if they can swim tie a brick to 'em. If they sink, fuck 'em they were losers anyway.

Awesome public policy... we don't want a middle class anyway

- DSK

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17 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

So what you are saying is you should have been able to walk away from your home you never should have been allowed to buy, but fuck the kids.

Thats real independent conservative right there.

You can keep repeating that lie all you want, but it will still be a lie.  

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7 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

You can keep repeating that lie all you want, but it will still be a lie.  

Are you saying it’s bad to repeat something someone else thinks is a lie over and over to bully people?

Now go makeup stuff about loans, fuckwhit.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Refresh me again, how is going another $2.2T in debt to pay for this "good for the economy"?

Don't pretend to be stupid. It's been posted over and over again how saddling people who should be in the prime years of consumption, buying houses, cars, furniture, cribs, etc has a negative hit to the economy.

 

It's only your assumption that it would have to be financed by debt. A very small wealth tax would pay for it in a year, with nary a hungry mouth created. Shit, the postive impact to the stock market would offset any little tax. See? I can do Trumpian math too!

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49 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I liken the current student debt "crisis" to the subprime crisis.  The easy availability of subprime loans meant that a lot of people bought houses that likely never should have been allowed to because they were never going to be able to repay them.  But the availability of easy money drive housing prices through the roof and costs of ownership skyrocketed. 

The student loan scheme is pretty much the same.... lots of kids who likely were never going to graduate from college went anyway once money was easy to get.  It's a laudable goal to open doors to college for low income kids.  But if they are not prepared for college and unlikely to succeed, it's a waste of their money and will burden them for life if they fail.  The sad reality is that if they are not "saved" in preschool and early grade school - then sending them to college is not doing them any favors.  And like the housing crisis, easy loan money and more people going to college meant schools could raise the costs of tuition as they liked.  It was a seller's market.  

Your understanding of college financing is about as complete as your understanding of the subtleties of the English Language.

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48 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bazinga!  

Now THAT, ladies - was a troll and I caught a big, fat, bald fish with it.  :lol:

And you're proud of it? Grow up.

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24 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

You can keep repeating that lie all you want, but it will still be a lie.  

Please point out his lie.

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10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bazinga!  

Now THAT, ladies - was a troll and I caught a big, fat, bald fish with it.  :lol:

"I meant to do that".

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9 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Don't pretend to be stupid.

It's not a pretense.

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11 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bazinga!  

Now THAT, ladies - was a troll and I caught a big, fat, bald fish with it.  :lol:

That was a troll? WTF. Getting you foot caught in the fishing gear and going overboard with the bait is not forum trolling.

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I absolutely love the idea of a guy with the grammar and spelling of an Air Force recruit trying to troll people with imaginary words.  3-D chess from jeffie.

:wub:

 

 

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Gwynne Dyer had the all time greatest description of merc's

He ran into a bar full of them in Harare in the 70's. These were the real deal, Mad Mike Hoare types left over from things like the Katanga rebellion and Biafra, not video console warriors like now.

He said "A bigger bunch of gormless space wasters would be hard to imagine". :D

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Note that none of our little Reichistas even recognize the reality of loan predation, 

much less be willing to do something about it (such as the CFPB). 

Even, apparently, when they themselves are the victims.

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8 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:Even, apparently, when they themselves are the victims.

Yes, sheep to slaughter they are. Across the board: Loans, welfare, minimum wage, health care, pollution, war.

At which rally will Trump say the quiet thing out loud: “Who are you going to vote vote for? You and your petty needs, or me?”

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21 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Note that none of our little Reichistas even recognize the reality of loan predation, 

much less be willing to do something about it (such as the CFPB). 

Even, apparently, when they themselves are the victims.

It's Warrens proposed fix in which the tax payer gets screwed that we're discussing.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

It's Warrens proposed fix in which the tax payer gets screwed that we're discussing.

As opposed to the Trumpublican "fix" in which the education system, and health care, and other stuff, is basically a rip-off system intended to funnel money from workers to the entitled 0.1%ers

- DSK

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On 2/14/2020 at 7:29 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

I absolutely love the idea of a guy with the grammar and spelling of an Air Force recruit trying to troll people with imaginary words.  3-D chess from jeffie.

:wub:

Imaginary words?  Like what?

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On 2/14/2020 at 7:43 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

I liken the current student debt "crisis" to the subprime crisis.  The easy availability of subprime loans meant that a lot of people bought houses that likely never should have been allowed to because they were never going to be able to repay them.  But the availability of easy money drive housing prices through the roof and costs of ownership skyrocketed. 

The student loan scheme is pretty much the same.... lots of kids who likely were never going to graduate from college went anyway once money was easy to get.  It's a laudable goal to open doors to college for low income kids.  But if they are not prepared for college and unlikely to succeed, it's a waste of their money and will burden them for life if they fail.  The sad reality is that if they are not "saved" in preschool and early grade school - then sending them to college is not doing them any favors.  And like the housing crisis, easy loan money and more people going to college meant schools could raise the costs of tuition as they liked.  It was a seller's market.  

In a professional setting, if you stripped out your SoCon politics and called things widgets and apples, you’d get eviscerated in a presentation for just plain bad logic.

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