blunted

Don't Anchor Here

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Very interesting! 

During my ocean crossings I always anchor for the night, since 8 hrs uninterrupted sleep is important to me and my crew. Yes, it may require a couple of thousand fathoms, but I use a large fishing reel with 200lbs proof nylon. On several occasions I have hooked into these stupid cables and when they come up I often wondered what the color code meant. Now I know where to look it up, and it's a kind of interesting to know what services will be fucked when I put my hydraulic cable cutter to them.

 

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Anchoring  on any of these can end up in a pretty big fine too..

30MPAsScotland_SL.jpg

MCZ map (Tranche 3 proposals)

 

Screen%2BShot%2B2014-09-16%2Bat%2B6.35.52%2BPM.png_47047001_uk_wind_farms_226map.gif

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in the early 80s, if Russians or terrorists really wanted to fuck with the US, all they had to do was blow up a couple uninhabited buildings in New Jersey where those cables from Europe came up during a work day and watch wall street panic and crash the economy.   The world cable routing is much more robust now with land terminus from Canada through New England.

Or the time in 81 or 82 when every major US corporation's backbone to the west coast went down in the middle of the morning.. Commie attack?  Nope, some farmer had accidentally taken out a major cable bundle in fly over country plowing his fields and the system was not robust enough to switch around it.  But for a couple hours some CIOs were shitting square bricks..

 

A big technology game changer in late eighties was the switch over to carbon dioxide lasers with fibre optic cable.

The more powerful laser developed by AT&T could send a signal thousands of miles.

Prior to it they had to run a power supply alongside the cable for repeaters across the Pacific.  The problem was the electrical signal drove sharks crazy and they would chew through them and there are places where burying the lines is just not feasible.  They could then lay cables direct to countries without following the chain of fire which dropped prices significantly in Pac Rim countries and made it much more reliable.

Or when the US Navy had a Seal team tapped a dedicated undersea fibre cable unnoticed outside a major Russian Naval port.  The Pentagon was getting messages the same time as Moscow for 10 years before it was uncovered via a Russian spy.

This was all years before the Internet.

 

OK, there is your educational moment of the day..

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16 hours ago, blunted said:

don't anchor on these thingys

I thought this might be of some interest...

Cables-01.thumb.jpg.8426ad7e6db9b1d73e500ee1a40e04f4.jpg

 

Look over at the North East corner of Egypt.  That is the most strategically vulnerable area of undersea cable.  What anchors off of the entrance to the Suez?  Nothing big.

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1 hour ago, Foreverslow said:

in the early 80s, if Russians or terrorists really wanted to fuck with the US, all they had to do was blow up a couple uninhabited buildings in New Jersey where those cables from Europe came up during a work day and watch wall street panic and crash the economy.   The world cable routing is much more r 

 I think if any Russians were blowing up buildings housing cables in New Jersey, they would probably be blowing up other bigger things at the same time 

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Watched this a few weeks ago. 

What a shit show it was the first few attempts 

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Between the fishing trawlers in the English channel purposefully trying to snare their nets on a submarine cable (they could claim against the cable owner) , to the US converting a sub that covertly taps into these cables, there is a whole industry dedicated to submarine cable repairs.

Littoral waters is the most common for breaks, its pretty rare for a deep sea cable down at max depth (8000m) to get broken. At one stage we had 21 cable ships roaming the oceans doing repairs. Doing a repair is fascinating, you have to grapple the cable, cut it, then with one end in the grapple motor off to the horizon for a few nm, slowly winching the cable to the surface. Buoy off that end, then backtrack, grapple the other end, motor in the other direction winching it up , buoy it off. 

Once it is bouyed off, you grab a new section of cable a few kms in length and splice it in across the gap. Test everything religiously, then drop it off the buoys back to the ocean floor.   

Doing a new cable lay is interesting, the cable ship can be headed in all sorts of bizarre directions to offset the sea currents at different depths pulling the cable in different directions . So while the cable ship can look like a drunken sailor on his way home, the cable at the sea floor comes to rest all nice and straight, pretty awesome to watch.        

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For capacity, the submarine fibre has no peer. The best US mil satellite can support a 5gbps download speed, a new cable with 4 pairs of fibre is now achieving 10Tbps. 

That's about 1.5 billion simultaneous voice calls. Try troubleshooting that bastard.   

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8 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

..to the US converting a sub that covertly taps into these cables,

apparently, there is more than one country that plays at this game.

 Image result for losharik

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Hiya Floater,

It makes a lot of sense if you have the balls, it's like opening a pit right outside a nations biggest and baddest data centres and happily reading everything that goes in and out on that cable. We had alarms on the undersea amplifiers that would kick off if the light level at the amp dropped below a certain threshold, that was a 'tell' someone was fucking with your cable underwater.

 

  

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A few years ago took a day trip on the small freighter "Frances Barkley" from Port Alberni to Bamfield, British Columbia. There was large building at the entrance that looked out of place in a small coastal town of 180 people. I asked one of the crew about the history and it was originally built for the technicians and operators for the Trans Pacific communication cable.

 

Image result for bamfield trans pacific cable building 

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On 2/12/2020 at 8:08 AM, Foreverslow said:

in the early 80s, if Russians or terrorists really wanted to fuck with the US, all they had to do was blow up a couple uninhabited buildings in New Jersey where those cables from Europe came up during a work day and watch wall street panic and crash the economy.   The world cable routing is much more robust now with land terminus from Canada through New England.

Or the time in 81 or 82 when every major US corporation's backbone to the west coast went down in the middle of the morning.. Commie attack?  Nope, some farmer had accidentally taken out a major cable bundle in fly over country plowing his fields and the system was not robust enough to switch around it.  But for a couple hours some CIOs were shitting square bricks..

 

A big technology game changer in late eighties was the switch over to carbon dioxide lasers with fibre optic cable.

The more powerful laser developed by AT&T could send a signal thousands of miles.

Prior to it they had to run a power supply alongside the cable for repeaters across the Pacific.  The problem was the electrical signal drove sharks crazy and they would chew through them and there are places where burying the lines is just not feasible.  They could then lay cables direct to countries without following the chain of fire which dropped prices significantly in Pac Rim countries and made it much more reliable.

Or when the US Navy had a Seal team tapped a dedicated undersea fibre cable unnoticed outside a major Russian Naval port.  The Pentagon was getting messages the same time as Moscow for 10 years before it was uncovered via a Russian spy.

This was all years before the Internet.

 

OK, there is your educational moment of the day..

I thought I read somewhere that the clamp thingy the Navy put on the cable is on public display somewhere over there, with neither side acknowledging where it came from.

The owner of one of the companies I used to work for was telling anchor stories one day and said he pulled up the power to Brown island in Friday Harbor Wa.  Think he had to dump the tackle, big yachte with probably some spendy ground tackle.

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On 2/12/2020 at 11:08 PM, Foreverslow said:

The more powerful laser developed by AT&T could send a signal thousands of miles.

Prior to it they had to run a power supply alongside the cable for repeaters across the Pacific. 

And to add some more tidbits cos I'm a nerd...

In the early optical undersea cables the repeaters were known as regenerators. Physically they look like cylinders spliced into the cable , spacing approx every 100kms. The fibre core only had one or two different wavelengths, like having only two tv channels on your terrestrial tv. The reason for having so few wavelengths was the limitations of that first undersea amplifier, the regenerator.  

The problem was we didn't know how to amplify a signal unless it came on a copper wire, So the regen would receive the optical inputs, convert these wavelengths into separate electrical circuits, clean up the signal, amplify it, then modulate the signal onto a pair of lasers and transmit them along the cable to the next regenerator some 100kms away. The process gets repeated ad nauseum, so in essence the first undersea cables were really lots of small point to point fibre optic cables with electrical amps in between. 

Then the game changer was born, the EDFA. An EDFA is an all optical amplifier, and rewrote the bandwidth limitations of submarine cable systems in a heartbeat. In comparing the two technologies;

  • a regen would accept normally 2 x wavelengths, had numerous critical electronic hardware components, and required parallel regen/amplifier circuits for the 2 wavelengths.
  • the repeater could accept 126 wavelengths, had no copper components, and used one amplifier to amp all 126 wavelengths. 

Open an EDFA and they are amazingly simple. All you'll see is a 10mtr reel of fibre cable, and 2 x 980 nm lasers spliced into the reel. That's it.

The hidden secret is the 10mtr piece of fibre is doped with erbium. When the 980nm lasers are switched on, (they stay on permanently) the erbium atoms in the fibre core are energised by the lasers wavelength, and absorb energy, becoming slightly unstable. 

Then along comes the customer traffic, travelling merrily down the fibre core. There are multiple wavelengths on a single fibre core (that incredibly has an OD of only 0.009 of a mm) and enter the 10mtr reel of erbium doped fibre. The wavelengths carrying the customer traffic are light signals, so made up of photons. The photons  collide with the erbium atoms, resulting in a release of energy that duplicates perfectly the incident photon, so one photon becomes two. They collide with more erbium atoms, and the two become four, and so on. By the time the signals exit the 10mtr reel, your customer wavelengths have a gain in the order of 26db which is enough to push another 50-100kms till the next repeater. And on and on it goes. 

One EDFA uses about 1amp @ 12VDC, each fibre core needs its own EDFA every 50-100kms, a typical submarine cable can have up to 8 cores. The DC power is supplied by a coaxial braid in the fibre cable and powered from the land cable stations.

The longest all-optical (no copper joins) cable in the world is 16,000kms long from start to finish. 

I could go on for days. The list of achievements that undersea cables have attained continues and is just too long to list, but suffice to say I believe they will remain as one of humanity's most evolutionary engineering feats of all time. Pretty cool stuff. 

optical-repeater.jpg.d12dac1c85700200925e0356020f2db3.jpg.  

 

 

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13 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

For capacity, the submarine fibre has no peer. The best US mil satellite can support a 5gbps download speed, a new cable with 4 pairs of fibre is now achieving 10Tbps. 

That's about 1.5 billion simultaneous voice calls. Try troubleshooting that bastard.   

I'd give it a go - there would likely be a LOT of common features as clues ;)

I used to love troubleshooting - these days you just send it to landfill and buy a new one! :angry:

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2 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

I'd give it a go - there would likely be a LOT of common features as clues ;)

I used to love troubleshooting - these days you just send it to landfill and buy a new one! :angry:

HIya Rec,

There definitely are çlues, both in the physical (cable and optics) layer and the network (SDH/Sonet) layers. And yes, the troubleshooting was fucking awesome. 

Commissioning the physical layer could be the real head fuck. The biggest drawback in long haul cable systems is the non-linear effects. You get it from having multiple wavelengths tightly packed together, high power, tiny surface areas, huge distances and photons all needing to co-exist to make the systems work. And as these effects are non-linear, it was impossible to work out, and hence mitigate, all of the impacts before the entire cable system was fully built, installed and turned on! 

There were some nervous moments :wacko:.   

The network layer was awesome for troubleshooting. One of the cool things about the SDH (or Sonet in the US) protocol used in submarine cables was it's inherent troubleshooting strengths, there were indeed evident clues that poinpoint quickly and effectively where in the route you neeed to be looking . 

An interesting note regards the longevity...we got to open some regenerators that had been sitting on the ocean floor for over 20 years. When we spun off the end caps on the cases, every single electrical component inside the housing was in pristine condition, there was not a blemish or any discoloration or environmental degradation of any sort. It fair dinkum looked like it had rolled off the assembly floor only minutes beforehand, every component was gleaming.

Pretty cool for a enclosed tube that's been sitting underwater for 20yrs at a pressure of about 400 atmospheres :wub:    

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On 2/13/2020 at 12:31 AM, apophenia said:

Neal Stephenson's classic Mother Earth Motherboard.

I came here to share that same article! It was probably one of the best pieces ever published in Wired, and relates nicely to Cryptonomicon, and the Baroque Cycle novels.

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Shaggy.........a lot of great information but when the protons started.....

 

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1 hour ago, SloopJohnB said:

Shaggy.........a lot of great information but when the protons started.....

 

Sorry Sloop, occupational hazard :)

Here's a cool one. The reason why the fibre core has to be so small (9um) is to get all the customer traffic photons to line up one behind the other and travel down the cable in single file, this lessens the degradation of the signal and dramatically improves the distance you can achieve. All good things.

So we know the OD of the glass fibre core that the signals travel through is .009 mm. To make sure the photons are trapped and are cattle-gate-queued into a single file, it's kinda logical that we should work out the OD of a photon to see if it will fit into this 'glass laneway'. 

And THAT is where light starts screwing with you. For shits and giggles, when you get a chance google 'what is the OD of a photon?'. You don't have to understand the technical nuance behind the answer, it's the weirdness of the answer itself that is the point I'm alluding to. 

Makes for a great conversation killer at a dinner party, you'll sound like a certifiable loon....     

  

 

 

 

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So how do you repair a submerged fiber optic? Land based ones have to be rerun from a terminal as no connections are underground.  Please don't ask me how I know this....

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12 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

And to add some more tidbits cos I'm a nerd...

In the early optical undersea cables the repeaters were known as regenerators. Physically they look like cylinders spliced into the cable , spacing approx every 100kms. The fibre core only had one or two different wavelengths, like having only two tv channels on your terrestrial tv. The reason for having so few wavelengths was the limitations of that first undersea amplifier, the regenerator.  

The problem was we didn't know how to amplify a signal unless it came on a copper wire, So the regen would receive the optical inputs, convert these wavelengths into separate electrical circuits, clean up the signal, amplify it, then modulate the signal onto a pair of lasers and transmit them along the cable to the next regenerator some 100kms away. The process gets repeated ad nauseum, so in essence the first undersea cables were really lots of small point to point fibre optic cables with electrical amps in between. 

Then the game changer was born, the EDFA. An EDFA is an all optical amplifier, and rewrote the bandwidth limitations of submarine cable systems in a heartbeat. In comparing the two technologies;

  • a regen would accept normally 2 x wavelengths, had numerous critical electronic hardware components, and required parallel regen/amplifier circuits for the 2 wavelengths.
  • the repeater could accept 126 wavelengths, had no copper components, and used one amplifier to amp all 126 wavelengths. 

Open an EDFA and they are amazingly simple. All you'll see is a 10mtr reel of fibre cable, and 2 x 980 nm lasers spliced into the reel. That's it.

The hidden secret is the 10mtr piece of fibre is doped with erbium. When the 980nm lasers are switched on, (they stay on permanently) the erbium atoms in the fibre core are energised by the lasers wavelength, and absorb energy, becoming slightly unstable. 

Then along comes the customer traffic, travelling merrily down the fibre core. There are multiple wavelengths on a single fibre core (that incredibly has an OD of only 0.009 of a mm) and enter the 10mtr reel of erbium doped fibre. The wavelengths carrying the customer traffic are light signals, so made up of photons. The photons  collide with the erbium atoms, resulting in a release of energy that duplicates perfectly the incident photon, so one photon becomes two. They collide with more erbium atoms, and the two become four, and so on. By the time the signals exit the 10mtr reel, your customer wavelengths have a gain in the order of 26db which is enough to push another 50-100kms till the next repeater. And on and on it goes. 

One EDFA uses about 1amp @ 12VDC, each fibre core needs its own EDFA every 50-100kms, a typical submarine cable can have up to 8 cores. The DC power is supplied by a coaxial braid in the fibre cable and powered from the land cable stations.

The longest all-optical (no copper joins) cable in the world is 16,000kms long from start to finish. 

I could go on for days. The list of achievements that undersea cables have attained continues and is just too long to list, but suffice to say I believe they will remain as one of humanity's most evolutionary engineering feats of all time. Pretty cool stuff. 

optical-repeater.jpg.d12dac1c85700200925e0356020f2db3.jpg.  

 

 

Is the EDFA invention what put all the cable laying ships suddenly out of business? Or was that something else? All I remember was some scientist-researcher-engineer realised he could put something like an order of magnitude or more down the pipe with a certain change.

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

So how do you repair a submerged fiber optic? Land based ones have to be rerun from a terminal as no connections are underground.  Please don't ask me how I know this....

Super spendy and site repair only, a guy my wife used to work withs business has had to pull a interisland one in the San Juans more than once.  Some of the southeast AK ones also can get toast and they have to send a ship up on-site to repair.   I think they end up on some ridge etc and saw through.  Kinda crazy as they end up covering a crazy amount of traffic emergency etc and when they go down It's a shit show.

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5 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Is the EDFA invention what put all the cable laying ships suddenly out of business? Or was that something else? All I remember was some scientist-researcher-engineer realised he could put something like an order of magnitude or more down the pipe with a certain change.

The economic tanking the industry took was twofold, a ripple effect from the dotcom crash and financial greed. Rewinding to 2000 when bandwidth demand was exploding, a well planned submarine cable system was going cash positive in a couple of years. This attracted the interest of the financial sector, and for the first time commercial entities that were non telecommunication carriers entered the market and became buyers and owners of submarine cable systems. Purely for the financial windfall.

One big difference between a telco and a financial entitiy, a telco knows that buying a huge new fat pipe meant they had to fill it to make any money,. The non-telco cable owners thought the world would storm their doors begging for the new bandwidth.. 

End result was the industry took a pasting for a decade, then internet video started becoming popular. Now Google and Facebook are big enough to build their own systems, new multiplexing techniques means another recent huge jump in bandwidth and the industry is vibrant again.   

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21 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Sorry Sloop, occupational hazard :)

Here's a cool one. The reason why the fibre core has to be so small (9um) is to get all the customer traffic photons to line up one behind the other and travel down the cable in single file, this lessens the degradation of the signal and dramatically improves the distance you can achieve. All good things.

So we know the OD of the glass fibre core that the signals travel through is .009 mm. To make sure the photons are trapped and are cattle-gate-queued into a single file, it's kinda logical that we should work out the OD of a photon to see if it will fit into this 'glass laneway'. 

And THAT is where light starts screwing with you. For shits and giggles, when you get a chance google 'what is the OD of a photon?'. You don't have to understand the technical nuance behind the answer, it's the weirdness of the answer itself that is the point I'm alluding to. 

Makes for a great conversation killer at a dinner party, you'll sound like a certifiable loon....     

  

 

 

 

By crikey this is well over my head........I am a Mechanical designer and love seeing things come out the end of a pipe like water, steam, milk, chemicals etcB) but you can't see electricity, photons etc out the end of a wire.:wacko:

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1 minute ago, SloopJohnB said:

By crikey this is well over my head........I am a Mechanical designer and love seeing things come out the end of a pipe like water, steam, milk, chemicals etcB) but you can't see electricity, photons etc out the end of a wire.:wacko:

You just use a different detector :).

When you see water coming out of a pipe you are using ambient photos reflected off the water and then detected by a very sophisticated lensed array photon detector, with a remarkably effective analysis system. you can 'see' electrons coming out of a wire but you need a special detector because we don't have one built in.

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9 hours ago, JohnMB said:

You just use a different detector :).

you can 'see' electrons coming out of a wire but you need a special detector because we don't have one built in.

I beg to differ.  Experience tells me that touching the end of the wire from which the electrons are flowing is a VERY EFFECTIVE detector! :o

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Just noticed that the OP's submarine cable map ( https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ ) is interactive, and when I zoomed in to my location I found 2 cables branched off over quite a distance right to my island.

I'm a kind of honoured, but wait, they are owned and sponsored by Huawei, and the Chinese bought fishing rights and run a fishing fleet from Suva. Must have been part of the deal, fair enough.

I'm just not gone anchor near those two, it's on a lee shore anyway.

 

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On fiber optic cables, do they just connect them at the ends and software works out which is which? When they do underground fiber, I see a little camper parked over an access point for a day or so before moving a bit down the road. I wonder if there's a guy in there with a soldering iron and a cigarette always on the go making hundreds/thousands of ludicrously painstaking connections or if he's just plugging it together and then making sure pornhub works on each fiber.

 

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4 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

On fiber optic cables, do they just connect them at the ends and software works out which is which? When they do underground fiber, I see a little camper parked over an access point for a day or so before moving a bit down the road. I wonder if there's a guy in there with a soldering iron and a cigarette always on the go making hundreds/thousands of ludicrously painstaking connections or if he's just plugging it together and then making sure pornhub works on each fiber.

 

At 30 minutes per fap, splicing an 8 core fiber optic cable takes 4 hours. Add in an hour for lunch plus three union-mandated 20 minute breaks and there's your day or so.

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I’m can now understand how shaggy can afford a pogo ! 

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water-buoys-shaped-like-butts-0.jpg

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I heard a radio show about the first cable laid from England to South Australia. They imported the galvanised poles from Germany because the white ants quickly destroyed any wooden poles.

Also they were quite low, off the ground and low enough so a linesman on a camel could reach! 

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10 hours ago, knobblyoldjimbo said:

I heard a radio show about the first cable laid from England to South Australia. They imported the galvanised poles from Germany because the white ants quickly destroyed any wooden poles.

Also they were quite low, off the ground and low enough so a linesman on a camel could reach! 

Marine camels are my favourite mode of ocean transport. Udderly forgotten in rhe 21st century.

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21 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Marine camels are my favourite mode of ocean transport. Udderly forgotten in rhe 21st century.

Now, now. No need to take the hump.

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On 2/15/2020 at 8:40 AM, shaggybaxter said:

when you get a chance google 'what is the OD of a photon?'.

 

The diameter of the photon is around 10-5 Angstrom, so much smaller than diameter of an atom

Marcel Popa

Gheorghe Asachi Technical University of Iasi
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On 2/15/2020 at 6:59 AM, d'ranger said:

So how do you repair a submerged fiber optic? Land based ones have to be rerun from a terminal as no connections are underground.  Please don't ask me how I know this....

custom ships go out to the break location via some TDM method, then they drag a grapple and or lower rov pull it up and start work.

They get cut all the time mostly from seismic activity

http://www.aseancableship.com/

 

to tap into one illegally you would need lots of shore based collusion so I call BS on that

 

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1 hour ago, Sailabout said:

custom ships go out to the break location via some TDM method, then they drag a grapple and or lower rov pull it up and start work.

They get cut all the time mostly from seismic activity

http://www.aseancableship.com/

 

to tap into one illegally you would need lots of shore based collusion so I call BS on that

 

It's funny, you have all this purpose built optical test hardware that is designed to locate a cable break, and yet it was much more accurate to use the DC power feed instead. 

The optical test platform of choice is a COTDR, which for those used to terrestrial cables is simply a yuppified optical TDR. The problem with using an optical test was the resolution of the where the fault lay was at best quite a few kms, not really accurate enough for a cable ship to find the fault. 

Submarine cables are always powered from both ends, called cable landing stations.  Aside from the really big systems,  one cable landing station can generate enough voltage to power the entire system, (typically 12000V at 1 amp for a transatlantic cable) so in normal operation the two ends would load share, providing roughly 50% of the power each, one powered up as + polarity, the other end as  - (neg) polarity. You would tune the two power feed systems to move the 0 volt mark away from any undersea equipment, so you never had it quite at 50/50 load sharing , but close enough.  

When a cable gets cut, the copper braid used to power the undersea equipment gets exposed to the ocean, creating an earth. The power feed equipment will register that and the voltage will automatically re-adjust to reflect the fact you now have two dc circuits, one from each end powering to this new earth a few 1000kms away at the bottom of the ocean.

So, knowing the resistance of the cable per km, and using basic Ohms law, you can work out pretty accurately the distance of the cable to the break, true?

Which aside from one wee anomaly, is exactly the case.

The anomaly is the magnetic field generated from the earths core, as these systems are a literally a copper wire stretching over 10,000+ kms the earths magnetic field effects the voltage in the cable. So when we were doing our power calculations, we would have to add in a fudge factor of 0.2v per km for an East West cable span, and 2 volts per km for a North South cable span.

You would add in this variance into your calculations, check the voltage reading on the PFE equipment at both stations one more time, take a big deep breath and then ring the cable ship to give them steering directions as to where to go. Amazingly accurate, and without adding in the magnetic field effect, hopelessly inaccurate. Considering you have to cut the cable and winch it to the surface to effect any repairs, you really really don't want to screw up and cut it in the wrong place, pretty expensive snafu :)   

Regards eavesdropping, both the US and Russia have been actively tapping offshore cables since the 1950's, I''m sure they're not unique in this regard and that's not even thinking about the sabotage aspect. If WWIII ever kicks off, guess what one of the biggest targets would be for crippling your oppo's communications capability? 

 

 

 

      

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Somehow I knew this thread would get interesting.

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On 2/12/2020 at 8:08 AM, Foreverslow said:

in the early 80s, if Russians or terrorists really wanted to fuck with the US, all they had to do was blow up a couple uninhabited buildings in New Jersey where those cables from Europe came up during a work day and watch wall street panic and crash the economy.   The world cable routing is much more robust now with land terminus from Canada through New England.

Or the time in 81 or 82 when every major US corporation's backbone to the west coast went down in the middle of the morning.. Commie attack?  Nope, some farmer had accidentally taken out a major cable bundle in fly over country plowing his fields and the system was not robust enough to switch around it.  But for a couple hours some CIOs were shitting square bricks..

 

A big technology game changer in late eighties was the switch over to carbon dioxide lasers with fibre optic cable.

The more powerful laser developed by AT&T could send a signal thousands of miles.

Prior to it they had to run a power supply alongside the cable for repeaters across the Pacific.  The problem was the electrical signal drove sharks crazy and they would chew through them and there are places where burying the lines is just not feasible.  They could then lay cables direct to countries without following the chain of fire which dropped prices significantly in Pac Rim countries and made it much more reliable.

Or when the US Navy had a Seal team tapped a dedicated undersea fibre cable unnoticed outside a major Russian Naval port.  The Pentagon was getting messages the same time as Moscow for 10 years before it was uncovered via a Russian spy.

This was all years before the Internet.

 

OK, there is your educational moment of the day..

Great read about the early submariners during the cold war and the cable spying that the US Navy was able to accomplish for the NRA and CIA

Blind Man's Bluff

https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage-ebook/dp/B0089EMLGK

Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story Of American Submarine Espionage by [Sontag, Sherry, Drew, Christopher]

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Amazing, Shaggy. Have you written about this in such accessible prose elsewhere in a format that I could share with my kids who are both interested in geopolitics and pushing our in-home data feed to the max? If not your own writing -- which I find brilliantly lucid as a technological laggard -- could you suggest a good read on this topic for 18-20 yr old boys who sail? Brilliant stuff.

 

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6 hours ago, rico said:

Amazing, Shaggy. Have you written about this in such accessible prose elsewhere in a format that I could share with my kids who are both interested in geopolitics and pushing our in-home data feed to the max? If not your own writing -- which I find brilliantly lucid as a technological laggard -- could you suggest a good read on this topic for 18-20 yr old boys who sail? Brilliant stuff.

 

100% Agree ... Im kinda interested in this stuff, and this was very readable

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On 2/20/2020 at 8:52 PM, shaggybaxter said:

 

Regards eavesdropping, both the US and Russia have been actively tapping offshore cables since the 1950's, I''m sure they're not unique in this regard and that's not even thinking about the sabotage aspect. If WWIII ever kicks off, guess what one of the biggest targets would be for crippling your oppo's communications capability? 

 

 

 

      

so if you need both ends to be in it to hide an underwater tap why dont you just walk into the landing station and hook up?

Have we ever heard of a cable ship pulling up a cable for repair and finding an illegal tap?

I still think its a good story and with no evidence?

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8 hours ago, Sailabout said:

so if you need both ends to be in it to hide an underwater tap why dont you just walk into the landing station and hook up?

Have we ever heard of a cable ship pulling up a cable for repair and finding an illegal tap?

I still think its a good story and with no evidence?

You could well be right Sailabout. 

Just recently I had a submarine cable operator marketing how it was impossible for anyone to tap one of their cables without them detecting it.

100% guaranteed. Take it to the bank. So I did :)

We got to the SLA part and it of course turned out not to be possible after all. It would have been a USP if they could, it's not that easy. The highest risk is sabotage, and the highest risk cables are the single owner/operators like Facebook or Google. They' are less likely to build a really resilient secure robust system than a cable build for say multiple telco's for a TransAt crossing.      

Not a tap per se, but we did have an incident once where a repeater was cut out of a cable. On the sea floor. About a  year later another nation state announced a huge jump in their technology capability with undersea equipment...:ph34r:    

 

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1 hour ago, shaggybaxter said:

You could well be right Sailabout. 

Just recently I had a submarine cable operator marketing how it was impossible for anyone to tap one of their cables without them detecting it.

100% guaranteed. Take it to the bank. So I did :)

We got to the SLA part and it of course turned out not to be possible after all. It would have been a USP if they could, it's not that easy. The highest risk is sabotage, and the highest risk cables are the single owner/operators like Facebook or Google. They' are less likely to build a really resilient secure robust system than a cable build for say multiple telco's for a TransAt crossing.      

Not a tap per se, but we did have an incident once where a repeater was cut out of a cable. On the sea floor. About a  year later another nation state announced a huge jump in their technology capability with undersea equipment...:ph34r:    

 

I reckon it might have been doable back in the wire days when you can put jumper leads on wires but not since its all fibre

cheers

PS how china learns everything, steal it..

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