B.J. Porter

My Big Mushy Boat Listing - Selling a Boat in Motion

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Been an interesting week returning back to NZ to start getting ready to go in the water to prep for our next stages of life. Over the past few weeks, we spoke with a couple of brokers about our plans and our desire to sell Evenstar and get back to land.

Having made the mental adjustment towards stopping cruising, we're ready to move on. We don't need to sail from NZ back to the U.S. for any particular reason. It's not all that appealing because it's a lot of upwind and some of it is through places we've been, and there's a lot of stopovers on the way with enforced waits for weather we don't feel like waiting out. E.g. we have no desire to reach Hawaii in November then just hang around there waiting for spring to leave.

The net of this is that our long term plan - sail the boat back to the PNW and sell her, really has the caveat that we'd rather sell her as soon as possible.

Of course, we live on the boat and aren't in a position to just leave her somewhere, at least not here where they'd want to import her.

Conversations with brokers and inspections of the boat have shown that she's what you might describe as "mechanically solid, but aesthetically challenged." Meaning I could sail her to Fiji next week in complete safety, but the brightwork looks like crap, the saloon and cockpit cushions need replacing, the teak deck needs a lot of love (and bungs), and in general she needs a lot of spit and polish done to be tidied up for showing. Deferred maintenance is much of it - we spent our money and time on batteries, sails, and systems not brightwork and polishing. Nothing structural, it's all really the effects of being at anchor 350+ days a year with people living on her. Or for some things, sitting empty and either on a mooring or on the hard for almost 12 out of the last 24 months.

It's nothing that can't be sorted, and we've already started taking massive steps to bring up the curb appeal. She's not a project boat, far from it. But we need to focus on aesthetics to get enough interest in her to sell. So be it, we're working on it. I understand you can't put a boat of this size and pedigree up for sale with any whiff of Project Boat about her.

In the meantime, I don't really want to wait six months to a year or more to start trying to sell the boat. If there's a buyer out there now, I'd love to find him or her now, or soon.

From a financial perspective, every month I own the boat costs me more out of pocket. Every thing I fix, do, or change to make her prettier costs me more. Therefore the selling price I'd take for the boat now, this week or next month, is lower than what I'd want for her with a 10% commission due in Seattle in 2021 after I've prettied everything up. If someone buys the boat before I pay to update the upholstery, well there's an allowance I'd make. If I don't have to shell out for another year of insurance, I'm more flexible. You know the drill.

The question is, can I manage a strategy like this, to hit that "sell it sooner for less" point versus the "sell it more for later?" Because it's not, ultimately about the exact selling price of the boat, it's what it costs for me to own it until I sell it. What I have to spend before I sell it to get it to sell. It's the net of all that that matters - the opportunity costs - as well as moving on to the next phase in our lives.

I'm not super interested in advertising her for sale myself, by owner, with a price tag on her. I'm concerned that I'll spoil the market down the road when I will want to have a broker sell her for more. "Wasn't that boat hanging around for $X for months" when you have her on the market for $X + $75K because you've spent a ton of money on her since then and you need to pay a broker isn't what you want to hear.

So I'm looking for a strategy to at least get the word out about the boat, that she's an option, without burning my sales bridges before I have a chance to cross them.

I've considered that I could create a listing page on my blog, with no price and lots of details, and suggest interested buyers have a look at what's similar on yachtworld and e-mail me. Make it quite clear that I'll give a percentage to a broker that comes in on an open listing, stuff like that. Maybe share that around a few "Boats for sale" groups and cruising/sailing groups and forums. I'm not sure that will do anything though.

I'd love to hear the thoughts of any of you other experienced owners, brokers, etc. to see if my desire to get the word about this boat out there now before a listing on Yachtworld and ads in the back of Sail magazine start showing up is a patently stupid idea.

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20 minutes ago, Pipe Dream said:

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2001-hallberg-rassy-hr-53/OAG-AD-18376853/?Cr=0

 

This one is apparently in Italy but advertised in Aus??

It's the same one that's on Yachtworld in Italy.

Maybe it's in Italy because Oz comes after you to import before you go up for sale. DBY is an Aussie brokerage. 

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Don't know about NZ but selling proper blue-water cruising boats on Oz appears to be very difficult, if my experience is anything to go by.  I sold mine a couple of years ago after a very long time on the market, at a very low price. It was in "bristol" condition. Eventually sold it to a European buyer. who shipped it back there.

The main reasons seem to be the reduced number of local sailors who want to go offshore cruising, i.e. small market, and a significant supply of NA cruisers who don't want to keep cruising through Asia & Indian Ocean, so try to sell their boats here, plenty of supply. Looking out over our local bay, I can see a couple of them right now .   ( I bought mine from one of them in 2002 - market more buoyant then...)

 I'd suggest doing your sums for several options, including sailing and shipping her back to the US, with a very sharp pencil. (FWIW, I reckon that HR53 advertised would be lucky to fetch half that asking price locally.)

 

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12 minutes ago, Fleetwood said:

Don't know about NZ but selling proper blue-water cruising boats on Oz appears to be very difficult, if my experience is anything to go by.  I sold mine a couple of years ago after a very long time on the market, at a very low price. It was in "bristol" condition. Eventually sold it to a European buyer. who shipped it back there.

The main reasons seem to be the reduced number of local sailors who want to go offshore cruising, i.e. small market, and a significant supply of NA cruisers who don't want to keep cruising through Asia & Indian Ocean, so try to sell their boats here, plenty of supply. Looking out over our local bay, I can see a couple of them right now .   ( I bought mine from one of them in 2002 - market more buoyant then...)

 I'd suggest doing your sums for several options, including sailing and shipping her back to the US, with a very sharp pencil. (FWIW, I reckon that HR53 advertised would be lucky to fetch half that asking price locally.)

 

I think NZ is a little better as 1) you can strike out to Fiji, etc. more easily from here and 2) they don't want you to import a boat first. But we're leaving when cyclone season ends anyway.

A sister ship sold here about a year and a half ago, and there are some good sized boats changing hands. From what I hear, there are a number of boats bought here that sit out a season, then get sailed to the tropics, brought back and stored, etc.

Any local buying the boat here though would get a nasty shock from what would have to be tacked on to import it (15% I believe). But your prices will be lower, I am told, as the market is less accessible and it takes a more attractive deal to have someone get on a plan and fly from the US to look at your boat.

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Hi,

       I've only done this from the other side, where I bought a (small) boat from an owner that was having to spend a fair bit of money just storing her, so this suggestion my be nonsense.

 Would it be workable to advertise the boat for future sale (perhaps not through a broker) so that people are aware it's on the market, for the price you would be asking at that point, with the cosmetics done and the location you are planning to finish in. Note in the ad where the boat is and that an early sale could be arranged.

 Seems to me that the vast majority of serious buyers will be sufficiently switched on to the market to realise that they could make you a low offer early on and discuss location, what needs doing etc.

 You might get the interest you want and the list price wouldn't compromise a future sale. Admittedly, if someone looking is filtering by price and/or location they may not see your boat but I'm thinking that the sort of buyer you want to find is likely to be looking harder than that...

Cheers,

              W.

 

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I’ve gone the self listing route with a mindset of “I don’t need to sell her but if the right offer comes, I’ll take it”. It’s been over year on SBL and occasionally Craigslist. I’ve shown the boat to five interested parties of which three were not truly qualified prospects and two were just kicking tires. One of them said, “I’ve seen your boat listed for quite a while.” I replied, “That’s because I have tried to only show her to people that are true prospects after answering some targeted questions.”

Now I am considering hiring a broker to get it over with!

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1 hour ago, WGWarburton said:

Hi,

       I've only done this from the other side, where I bought a (small) boat from an owner that was having to spend a fair bit of money just storing her, so this suggestion my be nonsense.

 Would it be workable to advertise the boat for future sale (perhaps not through a broker) so that people are aware it's on the market, for the price you would be asking at that point, with the cosmetics done and the location you are planning to finish in. Note in the ad where the boat is and that an early sale could be arranged.

 Seems to me that the vast majority of serious buyers will be sufficiently switched on to the market to realise that they could make you a low offer early on and discuss location, what needs doing etc.

 You might get the interest you want and the list price wouldn't compromise a future sale. Admittedly, if someone looking is filtering by price and/or location they may not see your boat but I'm thinking that the sort of buyer you want to find is likely to be looking harder than that...

Cheers,

              W.

 

I've discussed this concept with a broker of listing it, but include language to the effect that "the seller is sailing the boat back to the U.S. for additional restoration and is motivated to make a deal" or some such thing that makes it screamingly obvious the price is rising higher the closer I get to the west coast.

This idea did not get a warm reception, so I'm trying out other ideas.

So I could certainly do something like the above, but I think I want to avoid putting a fixed price anywhere which might bite me in the ass later.

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49 minutes ago, Woods Rider said:

I’ve gone the self listing route with a mindset of “I don’t need to sell her but if the right offer comes, I’ll take it”. It’s been over year on SBL and occasionally Craigslist. I’ve shown the boat to five interested parties of which three were not truly qualified prospects and two were just kicking tires. One of them said, “I’ve seen your boat listed for quite a while.” I replied, “That’s because I have tried to only show her to people that are true prospects after answering some targeted questions.”

Now I am considering hiring a broker to get it over with!

Yeah, that's part of my concern. But I do want to sell her sooner rather than later so am more motivated that that. I do not want a price sitting out there for a long time.

But realistically, no one is going to get on a plane and come to NZ, or Fiji or American Samoa or even Hawaii if they weren't pretty serious. So the ad has to get that attention.

Stupid e-mails are easy to deal with, and I'd expect an influx. But I don't think I'll have tire kickers dropping in to see her while she's not in a broker's hands.

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The market for used mono's is pretty tough right now.  We're seeing 10 year old high quality boats listed for 25 percent of their original sale price.  Everyone wants a cat, well we don't, but everyone else does.  You might come out ahead financially to list it at a much reduced price and be done with it rather then spending time and money for "hopefully" a better sale price.

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It's a fairly specialised boat, with great name and reputation, and a small but educated market. 

If you know / or can find a few decent brokers in different locations, you might be able to put it to them exactly as you have positioned it - It's for sale at $xxx in 2021 in Seattle in excellent condition. I'm not going to list with you, but am happy pay you commission and sell at a discount if it's sold prior to leaving South Pacific. It's a boat they are likely to remember, and contact you if they come across someone in the market.

Sportscar on here (who is pretty easily identifyable if he hasn't just published his name at some point) would be one that it would probably be worth talking to. He probably won't do anything to help you, unless a buyer pops up and he can do a deal. Good reputation around here, played very straight when I bought a boat through him.

I think you are going to need to be pretty flexible on price though to get a deal to happen in the way you want. Any buyer is going to find your blog, and be able to do some quick maths on how much of a discount to go looking for. Off the top of my head I'd be saying $30k a year costs for two years, plus a $50k plus delivery back to the US plus $25k costs for the pretty up. Then add a bit of cheekyness and offer $150k less than a good condition version would sell for in ideal conditions. Dunno what your starting price might be, but that's a sizeable hit I'd imaging.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

I've discussed this concept with a broker of listing it, but include language to the effect that "the seller is sailing the boat back to the U.S. for additional restoration and is motivated to make a deal" or some such thing that makes it screamingly obvious the price is rising higher the closer I get to the west coast.

This idea did not get a warm reception, so I'm trying out other ideas.

So I could certainly do something like the above, but I think I want to avoid putting a fixed price anywhere which might bite me in the ass later.

Yeah, I don't see a broker being keen on this approach, don't think it works for their business model... the question was more whether it would be worth doing privately  (eg through an ad on here, or a private listing online). 

 Maybe this type of boat would only sell through a broker? I don't know...   If you posted it for a couple of months and then dropped the listing while you relocated and renovated that would avoid the "on the market for ages" accusation? When someone asks you why the boat was listed X months ago and didn't sell you have a solid explanation (and can get into a discussion about why they didn't get in touch then as part of that!!).

Good luck, anyway. I hope things work out well for you.

Cheers,

              W.

 

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I think boats like yours will sell better in northern Europe - your's won't be VAT paid, which affects the price, but boats sell there without VAT paid status.

The large cruising yacht market there is still not fixated on multihulls to the extent that other markets are, and the boat is a boat that people there aspire to own.

If you really want to sell, and aren't excited in sailing home, look into shipping it somewhere up there - even if you own it for a while, there are ways for you to avoid having to pay VAT, and let the new owner decide what to do

you probably didn't cruise northern europe  on your trip, so maybe you would use it a bit too.

supposedly shipping rates are low now...

 

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I’d sure look at the costs of shipping vs the costs of storing, were I you...

I do know a broker who is a good egg, albeit this type boat may not be his jam

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The first offer is most often the best offer.....even if painfully low.  (says he who turned down a painfully low house offer a couple of months ago...) Holding on and hoping for better is costly and usually at some point  taking 50k or 75k less becomes pretty attractive just to move on.

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We sold our last boat in MX a sort of remote spot or at least out of the way.  We made our own website and listed it in several online sites.  We listed it for the most we hoped to get, I think this is important as a baseline because at the end of the day it's Monopoly money between buyer and seller, it will never go above that number.  Whatever your top end is, thats what you should list it for. Everything else is negotiable.  Secoundly we sourced a broker local to the boat filled him in and had it as a backup without listing via him.  We ended up finding a buyer on our own and had the broker close the deal.  Brokers want show boats but listing yourself on a open timetable let's you deal with things as you see fit.  For us when it rained it poured and things went from nothing to buyers flying down and closing in a hurry.  We had the price high enough we were comfortable knocking off shipping cost to the PNW to close the deal.  Having the broker on site was a huge deal he already had the paperwork and jumped in to make it happen as we were miles away.  I do think perfect to a long time owner is a slippery slope, you have so much time and pride you can end up putting alot of money and effort into the boat to sell it and the return can be negligible.

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What buyer is going to buy a  cosmetically market challenged HR53 delivering in 2021 in the west at a reasonable price,  with the added affects of being cruised halfway around the world in the meanwhile? Maybe a Nigerian Prince or  these guys looking to upgrade by then.  And the price of the Italian boat is a pipe dream.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think your boat is going to have a very narrow market, most likely experienced sailors or cruisers looking to upgrade.  Its entirely possible the not having to cross the Pac could be plus for someone.  We had people tell us there was no way on our approach but it worked for us, a few sister ships were out there on broker listings and ended up selling for 60% or less than we got.  We certainly didn't make any money but we also felt like we got fair value.  If we were out shopping right now we would consider a boat like Evenstar and being in NZ would  be a plus.  My wife has always wanted to do the SE asia loop.  Systems integrity rig hull etc are all the big points, brightwork and missing bungs are the least of it.  I would probably try to knock the cost of removing the teak deck though hahah. 

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I have no direct experience in this area, but I think one aspect is the 'discount' (if any) to selling the boat in NZ vs selling the boat in the US.  How does that discount compare to the cost of shipping the boat to the US?   I would think you need some estimates from shippers to nail that down.  Of course the cost by a shipper is only one part of the overall shipping cost.  

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22 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

I think your boat is going to have a very narrow market, most likely experienced sailors or cruisers looking to upgrade.  Its entirely possible the not having to cross the Pac could be plus for someone.  We had people tell us there was no way on our approach but it worked for us, a few sister ships were out there on broker listings and ended up selling for 60% or less than we got.  We certainly didn't make any money but we also felt like we got fair value.  If we were out shopping right now we would consider a boat like Evenstar and being in NZ would  be a plus.  My wife has always wanted to do the SE asia loop.  Systems integrity rig hull etc are all the big points, brightwork and missing bungs are the least of it.  I would probably try to knock the cost of removing the teak deck though hahah. 

Missing bungs could be symptomatic and are not just cosmetic.  The useful remaining life and condition of the deck is more important than the cushions.   A teak deck replacement  could approach 1/3- 1/2 the value of this boat.     

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A mechanically fastened cosmetic teak deck is a question on any boat, but easy enough to verify integrity any reasonable surveyor will go over it thoroughly. As long as it's not wet removing the teak is not something I would look at as big job as I could do it myself for minimal cost.  My point being it wouldn't be a big detractor for me.

 

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7 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

A mechanically fastened cosmetic teak deck is a question on any boat, but easy enough to verify integrity any reasonable surveyor will go over it thoroughly. As long as it's not wet removing the teak is not something I would look at as big job as I could do it myself for minimal cost.  My point being it wouldn't be a big detractor for me.

 

 Maybe you can, but maybe not the average buyer.   Probably the first thing I would avoid if I was looking for a prompt sale  is posting on a sailing forum 
anything about its state of shabbiness. 

 

 

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In this day if you have any online presence cruising it's all out there.  BJ seems pretty honest based on the content he puts out.  Also following his posts there is a definite trend of making proper repairs to the boat without cutting corners.  The macro view for a buyer doing research is a good picture IMHO.  Our dockmates in PV two summers ago had the opposite experience, the sellers of their boat gave them one story and reality but when the buyers looked on the sellers cruising blog it was a never ending list of breakdowns and issues on the boat, none of which were disclosed.

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It seems unlikely anyone shopping in this price range is going to make a serious offer on a boat like yours while it is being used and on the move, especially if it needs work. It is possible someone will see a diamond in the rough and make you an offer, but cosmetics still sell most of the time.

If getting back to the PNW is still an option then you probably already know this broker, http://swiftsureyachts.com/ They deal in your type of boat, have done long distance cruising, and treated me well when I purchased through them. It might be worth a call or email to get their take on the situation.

 

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12 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Don't know about NZ but selling proper blue-water cruising boats on Oz appears to be very difficult, if my experience is anything to go by.  I sold mine a couple of years ago after a very long time on the market, at a very low price. It was in "bristol" condition. Eventually sold it to a European buyer. who shipped it back there.

 

5 hours ago, us7070 said:

I think boats like yours will sell better in northern Europe -

idk shit - but bringing it back to the American west coast seems a risk. Is any market is as downtrodden for used sailboats as here?

The local techies may have lots of money, but it looks to me like they don't sail. gddm but I've seen some beautiful boats go for pennies on the dollar here..

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6 hours ago, Bryanjb said:

The market for used mono's is pretty tough right now.  We're seeing 10 year old high quality boats listed for 25 percent of their original sale price.  Everyone wants a cat, well we don't, but everyone else does.  You might come out ahead financially to list it at a much reduced price and be done with it rather then spending time and money for "hopefully" a better sale price.

Financially for me, this is much better. I'd rather have a far less exciting sale price now that covers the note and leaves a little scratch in my pocket than something more exciting a year and a half from now.

The question is what do we mean by "much reduced".

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11 minutes ago, floater said:

idk shit - but bringing it back to the American west coast seems a risk

i doubt the east coast would be much better...

the american sailboat market and the european market are very different

in the US, BJ's boat is a big sailboat.., and the market for them is pretty thin - they can sit for years. In europe, boats that size are much more common, and the market for them is more active.

add in the fact that in europe the HR is a well known.., even aspirational, brand, and it makes a lot of sense to get it there if you want to sell in less than a few years.

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6 hours ago, Se7en said:

Off the top of my head I'd be saying $30k a year costs for two years, plus a $50k plus delivery back to the US plus $25k costs for the pretty up. Then add a bit of cheekyness and offer $150k less than a good condition version would sell for in ideal conditions. Dunno what your starting price might be, but that's a sizeable hit I'd imaging.

Much of the pretty-up will be done in the next two months...add it seems to me you're counting twice to include $50k to sail it back to the US and $30k/year, since during those two years we'd be sailing it back to the U.S.

At $600/day for a skipper and crew that still allows 83 days to get the boat to Seattle. I don't think there's that much sailing involved, the real time delay to get there involves sitting out the storm seasons. At our speed it's about 25-35 days of sea time, with a bunch of dicking around waiting for weather.

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20 minutes ago, us7070 said:

add in the fact that in europe the HR is a well known.., even aspirational, brand, and it makes a lot of sense to get it there if you want to sell in less than a few years. 

I'm pretty sure this is not a VAT-paid boat. I think it was dropped in the water and sailed to the US when it was new, though I have no paperwork either way.

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3 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

A mechanically fastened cosmetic teak deck is a question on any boat, but easy enough to verify integrity any reasonable surveyor will go over it thoroughly. As long as it's not wet removing the teak is not something I would look at as big job as I could do it myself for minimal cost.  My point being it wouldn't be a big detractor for me.

 

It's not mechanically fastened. The screws are used to fix it in place during the build while the massively sticky stuff cures, that's all.

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23 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Financially for me, this is much better. I'd rather have a far less exciting sale price now that covers the note and leaves a little scratch in my pocket than something more exciting a year and a half from now.

The question is what do we mean by "much reduced".

Enough to sell it without leaving to much on the table.  You'll know the number better than anyone else.  But if it sells quick you'll think, damnit I'm to low, if it doesn't sell...well....

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6 hours ago, us7070 said:

I think boats like yours will sell better in northern Europe - your's won't be VAT paid, which affects the price, but boats sell there without VAT paid status.

The large cruising yacht market there is still not fixated on multihulls to the extent that other markets are, and the boat is a boat that people there aspire to own.

If you really want to sell, and aren't excited in sailing home, look into shipping it somewhere up there - even if you own it for a while, there are ways for you to avoid having to pay VAT, and let the new owner decide what to do

you probably didn't cruise northern europe  on your trip, so maybe you would use it a bit too.

supposedly shipping rates are low now...

 

Last time I got a quote to ship from Australia to Europe, the quotes were $77,000 and $110,000 respectively from the top two names in the business. That was 4-5 years ago.

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5 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

We sold our last boat in MX a sort of remote spot or at least out of the way.  We made our own website and listed it in several online sites.  We listed it for the most we hoped to get, I think this is important as a baseline because at the end of the day it's Monopoly money between buyer and seller, it will never go above that number.  Whatever your top end is, thats what you should list it for. Everything else is negotiable.  Secoundly we sourced a broker local to the boat filled him in and had it as a backup without listing via him.  We ended up finding a buyer on our own and had the broker close the deal.  Brokers want show boats but listing yourself on a open timetable let's you deal with things as you see fit.  For us when it rained it poured and things went from nothing to buyers flying down and closing in a hurry.  We had the price high enough we were comfortable knocking off shipping cost to the PNW to close the deal.  Having the broker on site was a huge deal he already had the paperwork and jumped in to make it happen as we were miles away.  I do think perfect to a long time owner is a slippery slope, you have so much time and pride you can end up putting alot of money and effort into the boat to sell it and the return can be negligible.

It may well be that putting a self-listing out there without a price is too "Mushy", hence the thread title.

Putting a number on there - the max number I'd expect to list her for in 2021 on the west coast, say, does indicate some sense of reality on my end and will weed out many people with unrealistic expectations.

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3 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

In this day if you have any online presence cruising it's all out there.  BJ seems pretty honest based on the content he puts out.  Also following his posts there is a definite trend of making proper repairs to the boat without cutting corners.  The macro view for a buyer doing research is a good picture IMHO.  Our dockmates in PV two summers ago had the opposite experience, the sellers of their boat gave them one story and reality but when the buyers looked on the sellers cruising blog it was a never ending list of breakdowns and issues on the boat, none of which were disclosed.

I worry the opposite. I've been very candid about my breakdowns and issues, and I'm concerned that will hurt me as it looks like there are a lot of problems. Hell, I've gotten no end of grief from idiots on here about my so-called "incompetence" in dealing with this stuff, when in reality I'm just sharing my experience and looking for more better ideas to fix things properly. It's to the point where I don't do it much anymore here.

But the truth is we've been pretty conservative on doing things right and put a fair amount of time and money in to making the solutions to problems permanent.

I'm not sure a casual reading of my blog and social media presence shows that.

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25 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Much of the pretty-up will be done in the next two months...add it seems to me you're counting twice to include $50k to sail it back to the US and $30k/year, since during those two years we'd be sailing it back to the U.S.

At $600/day for a skipper and crew that still allows 83 days to get the boat to Seattle. I don't think there's that much sailing involved, the real time delay to get there involves sitting out the storm seasons. At our speed it's about 25-35 days of sea time, with a bunch of dicking around waiting for weather.

Sorry it's more like 42-50 days of sailing.

These are the main legs and distances.

image.png.a06ebb271832b51f2314797000daf2df.png

But...

  1. Can't leave NZ before the end of April/early May
  2. All that easting is against prevailing winds for until Samoa or later. So your waiting for a stretch that's good. There are possible stops in between to keep the good wind legs short.
  3. You don't want to sail north to Hawaii until October when storm season ends
  4. You don't really want to leave Hawaii until May or later

So there's some ass-sitting along the way, unless you want to sail into cyclone/storm seasons and take risks that insurers don't care to underwrite.

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Regarding online presence, I read it different but who knows, don't sell to a lawyer haha.  Anyone with a BS meter can sort it out.  A quick looking at YW has that boat at low 300 to high 400 pretty decent starting point. You know some of them are trashed and some great and the asking price may not relay either.  I worked commissioning HRs in Seattle in the late 90's for a small rigging shop.The 46 has always been the irrational boat of choice I could never afford, and have followed them in listings.  As far as production boats go they seem to have good way of holding value and name recognition, like Hinkleys which I could never understand, but that's a different discussion. If you go strictly by the numbers and look at build quality and boxes checked it's a great value for someone in that market.  Just doing a comparison of similar production boats like Hylas etc show it.  

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54 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Financially for me, this is much better. I'd rather have a far less exciting sale price now that covers the note and leaves a little scratch in my pocket than something more exciting a year and a half from now.

The question is what do we mean by "much reduced".

I only have peanut-gallery knowledge from watching the market, and from talking with friends (who mainly deal in powerboats).  But there is a huge variable to be factored into this process, and that is the economy. Better to sell now at a low price than to still have it on the market in a recession. 

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3 hours ago, steele said:

It seems unlikely anyone shopping in this price range is going to make a serious offer on a boat like yours while it is being used and on the move, especially if it needs work. It is possible someone will see a diamond in the rough and make you an offer, but cosmetics still sell most of the time.

If getting back to the PNW is still an option then you probably already know this broker, http://swiftsureyachts.com/ They deal in your type of boat, have done long distance cruising, and treated me well when I purchased through them. It might be worth a call or email to get their take on the situation.

 

This is part of the challenge. Evenstar isn't a gleaming marina-queen where someone lovingly polishes her in the slip between weekend trips, she's an active cruising boat infested with live-aboard cruisers.

The market for a 23 year old HR 53 is the same people that are spending $800K to $1M on a newer 54. Yes, she's big and still not-cheap, with her sisters on the market in the mid high $300s.

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16 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

I only have peanut-gallery knowledge from watching the market, and from talking with friends (who mainly deal in powerboats).  But there is a huge variable to be factored into this process, and that is the economy. Better to sell now at a low price than to still have it on the market in a recession. 

Absolutely this is a factor.

Honestly, a better scenario for me would be someone coming in with some interest right now looking for a softer price than waiting a year and a half.

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2 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Last time I got a quote to ship from Australia to Europe, the quotes were $77,000 and $110,000 respectively

is that US $? i would have guessed US 50K.., so i am a bit surprised

my only experience is with east coast USA to europe

 

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1 minute ago, us7070 said:

is that US $? i would have guessed US 50K.., so i am a bit surprised

my only experience is with east coast USA to europe

 

How big was the boat? It was USD.

We were thinking it would be fun to be cruising Europe while Will was in school in the UK. It wasn't worth the money.

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There are ways to get back to the PNW this year which we may also do.

Via French Poly/Tahiti

image.png.fc799b0b4eafea018328cec8f191adc5.png

Via the Cook Islands

image.png.a1be88c7fe9c61fb31969913d506d9c4.png

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Basically you're going to take a financial bath one way or another. But surely you anticipated this when you set out back in the day. I would have budgeted at selling the boat for no more than 50% of what I paid for it personally, ignoring running costs. It's a boat, they are money pits.

What's more important now? Trying to minimise your cash loss on selling, or minimise the time it'll take to improve the financial position? Because you're more likely to win Lotto than accomplish both.

FKT

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First, I don't have any good suggestions on your pricing strategy other than do not start with publishing a low price that is increasing. As you already know, the general rule is the first price you name sets a ceiling not a floor, regardless of the reality of costs etc. The buyer doesn't care about your costs, just what they are getting for what price. So maybe pick a price, then offer to refund them the costs of coming to visit the boat if they buy it or put a deposit on it when it is further away?

Second, spend some time working out who you think is a realistic buyer of your boat and then target them with everything you do, including deciding what cosmetics to do or not do, and where to sell it. I'm pretty confident doing that was key to our successful sale while cruising across the S Pacific.

I'd be happy to share our story and the materials we put together if you're interested.

All the best with finding that right person who is looking for just what you are selling.

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FWIW, I'd list it now at the price you plan to list it at after all the work is done and enumerate those pending improvements in your ad. Also be up-front that your price is very negotiable for anyone who wants to jump early and save you the expense of the improvements. 

If nobody bites and the work gets done, you're no worse off but you'll have at least kept open the opportunity to find a motivated buyer who's not afraid to get into a rougher boat at a lower price.

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5 minutes ago, Mark Morwood said:

First, I don't have any good suggestions on your pricing strategy other than do not start with publishing a low price that is increasing. As you already know, the general rule is the first price you name sets a ceiling not a floor, regardless of the reality of costs etc. The buyer doesn't care about your costs, just what they are getting for what price. So maybe pick a price, then offer to refund them the costs of coming to visit the boat if they buy it or put a deposit on it when it is further away?

Second, spend some time working out who you think is a realistic buyer of your boat and then target them with everything you do, including deciding what cosmetics to do or not do, and where to sell it. I'm pretty confident doing that was key to our successful sale while cruising across the S Pacific.

I'd be happy to share our story and the materials we put together if you're interested.

All the best with finding that right person who is looking for just what you are selling.

Love to hear more, if you don't mind spending the time.

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2 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

This is part of the challenge. Evenstar isn't a gleaming marina-queen where someone lovingly polishes her in the slip between weekend trips, she's an active cruising boat infested with live-aboard cruisers.

The market for a 23 year old HR 53 is the same people that are spending $800K to $1M on a newer 54. Yes, she's big and still not-cheap, with her sisters on the market in the mid high $300s.

I don't think the market for your boat is the same people who want a new 54. I suspect it is current cruisers looking to upgrade to a bigger boat, or new cruisers who are looking to cruise now and your boat is at the top of their price range. I would not recommend trying to compete with the fit and finish on new boats. You'll spend lots of money and lose. Think about selling to someone like you - you do want it to look nice enough to be proud to show others around your "new" boat, but you equally care about the systems, the maintenance, and fundamentally the ability to support your dream of going cruising.

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8 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Basically you're going to take a financial bath one way or another. But surely you anticipated this when you set out back in the day. I would have budgeted at selling the boat for no more than 50% of what I paid for it personally, ignoring running costs. It's a boat, they are money pits.

What's more important now? Trying to minimise your cash loss on selling, or minimise the time it'll take to improve the financial position? Because you're more likely to win Lotto than accomplish both.

FKT

Probably the latter.

A sold boat improves my financial position, the sooner the better. And it lets us move on to the next stage of our lives.

You are correct, we knew going in we wouldn't get close to what we paid for the boat.The exact percentage...tough to tell, since we paid ~$200K less than any other HR53 on the market when we bought ours.

I've still got post-tax1 money in the bank, and an undetermined amount of equity in the boat. Financially, it's better to take less equity out of the boat right now and spend less of the cash, then spend more cash in the next 18 months and hope to get more for the boat in the future.

This is what I am hoping for.

 

 

1 Retirement funds are a completely unrelated question and don't factor in. Don't know how things work in Oz, but in the US you can tuck away retirement money on a before income tax basis, but you get penalized if you pull it out for most reasons before age 62. We are 53 at the moment.

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Much of the pretty-up will be done in the next two months...add it seems to me you're counting twice to include $50k to sail it back to the US and $30k/year, since during those two years we'd be sailing it back to the U.S.

At $600/day for a skipper and crew that still allows 83 days to get the boat to Seattle. I don't think there's that much sailing involved, the real time delay to get there involves sitting out the storm seasons. At our speed it's about 25-35 days of sea time, with a bunch of dicking around waiting for weather.

The $30k was my wild arsed guess at what it costs you a year in insurance, dockage, basic maintainance. ie I figure the boat costs you something like that whether it is sitting still or being used (My 37' was $15k, I just doubled it). So that's why I added that cost to the delivery cost.

$800 a day for skipper and crew + expenses, by 60 days was my guess to get it back to Seattle. Doesn't sound like an easy trip, but I guess anything in your boat is going to be fairly relaxing compared to anything I've sailed.

I didn't mean for the numbers to be authoratiative, just sounding out the thought process I'd go through if I was a buyer and knew your situation. She sounds like the perfect boat to go extended crusing on with teenage kids. Which is a pretty small market. (my family loved the 6 months we crusied for, but would not do a multi year trip)

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8 minutes ago, Mark Morwood said:

I don't think the market for your boat is the same people who want a new 54. I suspect it is current cruisers looking to upgrade to a bigger boat, or new cruisers who are looking to cruise now and your boat is at the top of their price range. I would not recommend trying to compete with the fit and finish on new boats. You'll spend lots of money and lose. Think about selling to someone like you - you do want it to look nice enough to be proud to show others around your "new" boat, but you equally care about the systems, the maintenance, and fundamentally the ability to support your dream of going cruising.

Typo...I meant to say "ISN'T".

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Just now, Se7en said:

The $30k was my wild arsed guess at what it costs you a year in insurance, dockage, basic maintainance. ie I figure the boat costs you something like that whether it is sitting still or being used (My 37' was $15k, I just doubled it). So that's why I added that cost to the delivery cost.

$800 a day for skipper and crew + expenses, by 60 days was my guess to get it back to Seattle. Doesn't sound like an easy trip, but I guess anything in your boat is going to be fairly relaxing compared to anything I've sailed.

I didn't mean for the numbers to be authoratiative, just sounding out the thought process I'd go through if I was a buyer and knew your situation. She sounds like the perfect boat to go extended crusing on with teenage kids. Which is a pretty small market. (my family loved the 6 months we crusied for, but would not do a multi year trip)

Numbers aren't too far off, though my insurance is close to $10K. Love to not pay that again.

We're re-thnking our approach and looking at a more aggressive return to the US.

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4 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Typo...I meant to say "ISN'T".

I've got to say that makes much more sense! Sorry, I should have realised.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Probably the latter.

A sold boat improves my financial position, the sooner the better. And it lets us move on to the next stage of our lives.

You are correct, we knew going in we wouldn't get close to what we paid for the boat.The exact percentage...tough to tell, since we paid ~$200K less than any other HR53 on the market when we bought ours.

I've still got post-tax1 money in the bank, and an undetermined amount of equity in the boat. Financially, it's better to take less equity out of the boat right now and spend less of the cash, then spend more cash in the next 18 months and hope to get more for the boat in the future.

This is what I am hoping for.

 

 

1 Retirement funds are a completely unrelated question and don't factor in. Don't know how things work in Oz, but in the US you can tuck away retirement money on a before income tax basis, but you get penalized if you pull it out for most reasons before age 62. We are 53 at the moment.

The age is 59 1/2 to avoid the 10 pct penalty , not 62 which is the  minimum age for SS withdrawals

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The IRS does allow annuity style withdrawals from pretax savings without penalty.  You would need to discuss those options with your accountant.

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51 minutes ago, Bryanjb said:

The IRS does allow annuity style withdrawals from pretax savings without penalty.  You would need to discuss those options with your accountant.

It does, but I'm not worried about that for a while yet. We shouldn't need to tap that money like that at all.

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

The age is 59 1/2 to avoid the 10 pct penalty , not 62 which is the  minimum age for SS withdrawals

Good to know, thanks. Only 6 years...

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10 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Financially for me, this is much better. I'd rather have a far less exciting sale price now that covers the note and leaves a little scratch in my pocket than something more exciting a year and a half from now.

The question is what do we mean by "much reduced".

I ended up getting about 40% of what I initially thought was a reasonable starting price.....

Don't know for sure but I think the buyer paid about $50K to ship it to EU, deck cargo (so mast up).

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7 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

There are ways to get back to the PNW this year which we may also do.

Via French Poly/Tahiti

image.png.fc799b0b4eafea018328cec8f191adc5.png

Via the Cook Islands

image.png.a1be88c7fe9c61fb31969913d506d9c4.png

My buddy Scott took his Tartan 37 solo from New Zealand to Friday Harbor in one fell swoop.  70 days.  Just sayin'.  He got a bit stir crazy about 40 days in.  Kept saying "we" when it was just him on board.  I would refer to the boat as a person as well I suppose.

https://www.sanjuanjournal.com/sports/scott-malone-sails-solo-from-auckland-n-z-to-friday-harbor-in-70-days/

They just bought a Sceptre 41 to do the islands again...

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Honestly cosmetics really matter as a first impression and in photos.

I helped a friend inspect a HR 352 today. The owners had it for 22 years but it was clear that maintenance had suffered in the past 2 years it had sat at a dock. If somebody takes the time to make the boat clean and tidy, the s.s. polished and teak tidied up it will matter. We also looked at a much cheaper Beneteau that the owner had fixed everything, wires were labeled, spare parts were sorted in bins and labeled etc. He is going to put in an offer on the Beneteau.

A poor boat cosmetically makes a buyer think "if he can't even get the easy stuff right, what other surprises are waiting for me?"

Ever bought a used car filled with burger king wrappers and crud everywhere in the interior? Me neither. I've bought ones where the owner has maintenance records and the car is clean enough that it makes you think they took care of it.

Used car dealers always detail a car because that first impression IS so important.

Maybe sail it to Fiji or American Samoa and hire out some of the work as part of the journey, though I'm not sure about upholstery skills or materials availability (could take a bolt of fabric with you) in either country.

If you sell now, with the boat as described, it will be at bottom end of the market for HR53's. That's not the place to be. Yeah its easier to try to sell in NZ but the pool of most likely buyers is mostly Aus + NZ. That's a far cry from the population of the US West coast even. Even if it is a big pain to get there.

Final thought - I think Hawaii to California might be an easier trip than Seattle but I'll let folks who have done it chime in. With the long motoring range you have, you could motor right through the Pacific High instead of beating north for 5 or more days.

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17 53,s show up on Yachtworld how does yours compare in condition and presentation.

NZ location will severely reduce interest as the local market for larger boats tend to fall towards albeit uglier newer lighter easier access fatties Hanse Beneteau etc that are smaller and  attract less costs to own berth and maintain as coastal cruisers.

As Zonker points to first impressions count

Are the decks at the end of their life as that one component will drive the value well south if so.
Is the engine and associated systems up to scratch including sails rig winches etc.

What condition is the topside paint job in does the bottom require a peel.

You need a independent appraisal of your boat beyond a broker and your own opinions.

It is wise to remember that sometimes the first offer no matter how out of the ballpark it is can be the best one in the long run as you get to move on and are free of the holding costs.

 

 

 

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Also: if you get an offer from a guy in Montana with several acres to trade for your boat, politely decline. He tried to trade for my boat that way.

Also the BC tugboat skipper that offered 50% now and 50% later. Suggest you would prefer 100% now.

And the Indian guy who will pay full price, just wants to know how much for shipping and he will send you a certified cheque. Tell him shipping is very costly, likely $1 million and see if that is OK with him.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

17 53,s show up on Yachtworld how does yours compare in condition and presentation.

If you look closely, there are more like 8 or 9, several of those boats are listed 2-3 times by multiple brokers...

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

And the Indian guy who will pay full price, just wants to know how much for shipping and he will send you a certified cheque. Tell him shipping is very costly, likely $1 million and see if that is OK with him.

Only if he'll give me a certified check for $1.5M and let me return the over to him.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Are the decks at the end of their life as that one component will drive the value well south if so.
Is the engine and associated systems up to scratch including sails rig winches etc.

What condition is the topside paint job in does the bottom require a peel.

Decks are...23 year old teak. I have about a metric shitload of bungs to replace...I will do this. But in most places there is at least 6-8mm of the original 12mm teak on there or more. I can tell from countersinking the bungs, one 10mm long bung sunk right in flush. But the caulk is proud of the deck, and the bungs need to be done. I bought a drill press and two meters of teak boards since I can't buy the bungs I need. I'm following Pete from Swifture's HR bung replacement guidelines, and it works well so I don't want to derail down that whole path.

The bottom I soda blasted, re barrier coated and repainted in 2010, it just got a nice fresh layer of eight gallons of Seahawk BioCop TF. It's in decent shape and smooth, no peeling. It was a straight paintover of BioCop from Oz a couple of years ago.

The genset is new in 2015, the engine I pulled and inspected at the same time an replaced the oil pan that was rusting out. Just replaced the turbocharger and intercooler and she's purring like a kitten.

The winches all work...everything works. The boat is ready to sail to Fiji next week, except her brightwork and deck looks like hell and we've got some cleaning and de-lifing. De-cluttering, really...we live on board, hard to disappear everything in the lockers. But we've gone through almost every locker with an eye to disposal while inventorying our extensive list of spares. So many fricking pumps...$thousands of dollars in spares of everything from 24V alternators to starters to pumps for A/C, watermaker, hydraulic autopilot, fridge, etc etc.

She needs a new boot stripe and cove stripe, but the base hull gelcoat is in great shape. We just did some glass repairs that were poorly done by the last owner and were showing it.

I'd say once we touch up the cosmetic issues she's well in the mid/upper range of the other boats. I'm still the only one I saw with a LiFePO4 battery bank, for better or worse she seems to have more modern instruments (though still a decade old) and is better kitted for full time cruising than many. Brand new Autopilot last Apri, the brain and displays at least.

New upholstery for the saloon and cockpit cushions will be ordered this week, 100M of new 12mm Maggi Aqua-4 chain will be here before the weekend1, and the anchor is off being re-galvanized. While I'm bunging teak my wife will be the new Queen of Brightwork.

We'll get this shit sorted.

 

 

1 We had a 12mm chain of indeterminate grade when we bought her, replaced it with 7/16" Acco HT (G43 I believe)in 2012 which rusted out in a few years. In February of 2016 we replace the rusted out Acco with Maggi Aqua-7 HT - a grade 70 chain. Supposed to be way stronger than grade 40. Well THAT shit rusted in about two years and is now untenable after four years - almost of year of which it was stored on the hard or on a mooring and not in the water. So I'm going back to a grade 40...Maggi seems to be what's available, though from what I see of the two top chain makers - Peerless/Acco and Maggi...they both suck ass. It weighs the same, it's all about the treating.

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

It is wise to remember that sometimes the first offer no matter how out of the ballpark it is can be the best one in the long run as you get to move on and are free of the holding costs.

Funny story on that. My last boat, the First 40.7, I listed in a classified here on SA before giving to a broker.

Some guy emailed me and made a stupid low offer. He wouldn't move up, I wouldn't move down. But it was about 30% below my ask, a day or three after I listed the boat for sale. So I said no, of course.

Fast forward a year and a half...and the boat finally sells. After the broker's take, I think I would have cleared exactly the same cash as that original out of the box offer. Maybe done better by a thousand or two if I'd taken it.

I suspect I may be less shy this time around.

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Interesting dry bungs ok if you have the depth. There is a tapered plug cutter you can source from Linbide or Carbatec as another option and I would glue them as well.

Wish you guys all the best with your endeavours and I suppose what adds insult to injury regarding selling locally apart from the GST and duty is the soggy Kiwi dollar.

Take care.

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30 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Funny story on that. My last boat, the First 40.7, I listed in a classified here on SA before giving to a broker.

Some guy emailed me and made a stupid low offer. He wouldn't move up, I wouldn't move down. But it was about 30% below my ask, a day or three after I listed the boat for sale. So I said no, of course.

Fast forward a year and a half...and the boat finally sells. After the broker's take, I think I would have cleared exactly the same cash as that original out of the box offer. Maybe done better by a thousand or two if I'd taken it.

I suspect I may be less shy this time around.

Many years ago now I was looking at an unfinished boat that was part of a deceased estate sale. I took a really good look at it, all the bits that went with it and went away to estimate the remaining work/money (and what IMO needed to be ripped out & done properly). I offered 50% of their asking price and considered I was being very generous. They turned me down.

2 years later they sold for the same amount I'd offered them less than a month after the boat went up for sale. I'm sure they thought I was trying to rip them off but eventually reality sank in.

Funny thing, the person who bought it still hasn't finished it. Sometimes I'm tempted to go and make an offer of half of what they paid for it, see what happens. But my GF would kill me if I bought another big project - the IH tracked loader is still waiting its turn.

Generally I value things like boats by finding the most cherry one currently for sale, looking at what it has/condition it is, then the one I'm considering and adding up the cost to get the one I'm considering to the same standard as the cherry one. If the dollars/time is excess of the cherry asking price, it's overpriced in my mind.

FKT

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30 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Interesting dry bungs ok if you have the depth. There is a tapered plug cutter you can source from Linbide or Carbatec as another option and I would glue them as well.

Wish you guys all the best with your endeavours and I suppose what adds insult to injury regarding selling locally apart from the GST and duty is the soggy Kiwi dollar.

Take care.

From the ones I've tried - only a few dozen - there's plenty of depth.

The odds of selling locally are near zero, I'm guessing. It would have to go for a lot of Kiwibucks to cover the exchange and importing the boat.

OTOH, it's not a terrible place to get some of this work done with the soft Kiwi dollar. In theory labor up in Fiji is still cheaper, but the workmanship here makes up for it, I think.

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Best bet is to connect with those who are "in love" with the make/model. I once had a guy repeatedly pester me to sell, but I wasn't ready. A couple years later the tables turned, and I struggled to find any takers. The spread between ask/sell can be pretty hefty, have you been able to dig up any sold comps? Also look at time on the market until sold. As much as it seems to make sense for a buyer to bite on a "pre-positioned" boat, I think it narrows the population of prospective buyers drastically, even here in the Caribbean. Sounds like you're ready to get off the boat - I'd #1. Put my head down and knock out all the cosmetic shit as quick as possible, while #2. Plan the marketing campaign, with competitive asking price and the note "under way to XXX." #3.  Delivery sail her (as opposed to cruise) to the US location that makes the most sense for you. #4. Gut check what's the lowest you could sell for without hating yourself. Good luck.

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22 hours ago, Veeger said:

The first offer is most often the best offer.....even if painfully low.  (says he who turned down a painfully low house offer a couple of months ago...) Holding on and hoping for better is costly and usually at some point  taking 50k or 75k less becomes pretty attractive just to move on.

This is a smart man.

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5 hours ago, sugarbird said:

Best bet is to connect with those who are "in love" with the make/model. 

Good advice.  We sold our boat in Mexico through a US broker who specialized in our boat.  Had an offer in 2 or 3 days (only fell through because the buyer had a medical emergency just before closing.)  Still, completed the final sale only a few months later.

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BJ.. .02 from a guy who has built and sold many companies over the past 45 years. In my experience you should always take your first loss. Don't compound it by trying to out think your current position. Sell your boat as-is where is. Agree if anything to contribute to getting the boat to the buyer. All the various schemes to improve your sales number are chimera. You are dealing with a very tiny potential scope of buyers. Don't throw more money at the project.

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3 hours ago, jhiller said:

BJ.. .02 from a guy who has built and sold many companies over the past 45 years. In my experience you should always take your first loss. Don't compound it by trying to out think your current position. Sell your boat as-is where is. Agree if anything to contribute to getting the boat to the buyer. All the various schemes to improve your sales number are chimera. You are dealing with a very tiny potential scope of buyers. Don't throw more money at the project.

very well said. I once turned down an initial offer (renovated house), to my regret. another: I failed to contribute getting the (classic BMW) to the buyer - lost that sale too. so, I feel like I am a shitty salesman now and lean towards hiring experts to manage the transactions for me. That said - BJ seems a sharp cookie, with a good boat - and prolly one step ahead of all of us here..

with luck he'll be boat-less day after tomorrow?

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18 hours ago, jhiller said:

BJ.. .02 from a guy who has built and sold many companies over the past 45 years. In my experience you should always take your first loss. Don't compound it by trying to out think your current position. Sell your boat as-is where is. Agree if anything to contribute to getting the boat to the buyer. All the various schemes to improve your sales number are chimera. You are dealing with a very tiny potential scope of buyers. Don't throw more money at the project.

Or the other axiom about start-ups; make your very best estimate, then twice as much, twice as long and half the return.

Same rule for selling (and building) boats.....

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19 minutes ago, Fleetwood said:

Or the other axiom about start-ups; make your very best estimate, then twice as much, twice as long and half the return.

Same rule for selling (and building) boats.....

Pretty much how I used to guesstimate software development time - work up your very best estimate, then multiply by 3. Assuming no 'blue sky' bleeding edge software tools and a half decent user requirement doc.

My boat build was a lot simpler - write off every dollar spent the moment it was spent. Expect a zero return at the end when you go to sell. After all what dollar value do you put on that good meal & bottle of wine you had the last time you went out to dinner?

FKT

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I am with jhiller , a boat is a depreciating asset, just realise your loss and get on with your life.

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19 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

I am with jhiller , a boat is a depreciating asset, just realise your loss and get on with your life.

Workin' it...

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The difference is that with start-ups its OPM, with boats its your own!

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New upholstery's done...

IMG_1654-001.thumb.jpg.193c4e2e7d2b831b2ce897e10be1182f.jpg

IMG_1655.thumb.jpg.7272a6011415db521a1139b5b250ed6b.jpg

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That boat would make a fine donation to some organization who'll teach kids how to sail.

You might even be able to insure your donation in your name.

Any dry rot? Kinetic ground tackle?

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Economist and sales consultant here.  A couple of points.  The strongest boat market in the U.S. is in Seattle, worst is Florida and much of the east coast.  Dont know about the rest of the world.  The market for large monohulls is in decline with no recovery in sight.  The same is true for the sailboat market in general.  Seems to me your best bet is to make an uncomfortable transit to Seattle.  Once there set a realistic/aggressive price and put it out there.  Study after study shows a large percentage of buyers wont even respond to ads without prices.  They consistently assume it's over priced and that the seller wants/demands the opportunity to personally justify the numbers.  But it doesnt work as intended.  Best chance to sell is when the listing is fresh.  Grab the money and dont look back.  Good luck!

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2 hours ago, boatcat65 said:

Economist and sales consultant here.  A couple of points.  The strongest boat market in the U.S. is in Seattle, worst is Florida and much of the east coast.  Dont know about the rest of the world.  The market for large monohulls is in decline with no recovery in sight.  The same is true for the sailboat market in general.  Seems to me your best bet is to make an uncomfortable transit to Seattle.  Once there set a realistic/aggressive price and put it out there.  Study after study shows a large percentage of buyers wont even respond to ads without prices.  They consistently assume it's over priced and that the seller wants/demands the opportunity to personally justify the numbers.  But it doesnt work as intended.  Best chance to sell is when the listing is fresh.  Grab the money and dont look back.  Good luck!

She should be hitting Yachtworld within a couple of days, we're listing it with a price with a broker based here in NZ, for now.

I've gotten two conflicting reports on the HR53s that have sold in the last 5-6 years, but there have been sales on the US East coast, west coast, and NZ. Though most have been in Europe because most of them are around Europe.

If it's not sold or showing interest here in two months, we'll do the slog to the the Seattle area from May - August and sell it from there.

She will be coming in at a price that is not unreasonable for a Seattle listing and priced to move her, and we've got more flexibility on price selling her quickly than down the road.

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