BravoBravo

The Enemy is China

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In every possible way!

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/02/13/meth-opioids-new-epidemic-of-addiction/4551991002/

yeah... contribute to the Peace Boat while you whistle past the greatest threat to world peace .... China is an EVIL Empire with a smile on its face 

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19 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

In every possible way!

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/02/13/meth-opioids-new-epidemic-of-addiction/4551991002/

yeah... contribute to the Peace Boat while you whistle past the greatest threat to world peace .... China is an EVIL Empire with a smile on its face 

The enemy is us. Silly drug laws and a nation of willing users.

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2 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

The enemy is us. Silly drug laws and a nation of willing users.

You are a myopic idiot !!!

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Small minds need enemies.

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Yeah, China is aggressive. And their smart moves confound and disturb the know-nothings on the rise in America. But enough about misplaced worry and fear: Check out the results of my new super simple pizza recipe.

 

572A661E-18BB-4159-9408-19C05A6F9D58.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Small minds need enemies.

Small minds do not realize they are being used and abused, not to mention China was behind the killings of 10,000 of Americans in Korea after NK invaded SK ... behind 58,000 names on The Wall   They are global players with very bad intentions and deeds

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2 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Yeah, China is aggressive. And their smart moves confound and disturb the know-nothings on the rise in America. But enough about misplaced worry and fear: Check out the results of my new super simple pizza recipe.

 

572A661E-18BB-4159-9408-19C05A6F9D58.jpeg

That looks pretty damn good. I'd eat it.

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19 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Check out the results of my new super simple pizza recipe.

How'd you make the crust? Recipe please?

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In my lifetime, it would be hard to count the number of “enemies” I’ve had represented to me. Can’t say a single one wasn’t fighting American expansion. Note, I was born post-Korea war. 

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if China’s the enemy why is your boy Shitstain rolling over and giving them win after win?

that pizza looks good, here’s a more appropriate video - Uighur nan is awesome

 

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55 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

How'd you make the crust? Recipe please?

From this WaPo article...but maybe paywalled so cut paste below. The first four steps are the dough. The other steps are if you somehow don’t know how to make a pizza:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/04/25/how-to-master-neapolitan-style-pizza-at-home-no-wood-fired-oven-needed/p

About 5 cups (590 grams) bread flour, plus more for the work surface

1/2 teaspoon (2 grams) instant yeast

About 1 2/3 cups (380 grams) cold water

2 teaspoons (12 grams) sea salt

Olive oil, for greasing

 

Step 1

Combine the flour, yeast and cold water in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with a dough-hook attachment. Mix on the lowest speed until the dough just comes together and there is no trace of dry ingredients. Remove the bowl from the mixer, cover with plastic wrap and let the dough rest at room temperature for 30 minutes.

 

Step 2

Return the bowl to the stand mixer; mix (still with the dough hook) on medium-low speed. Add the salt; mix on medium-low for 7 to 10 minutes, until the dough is smooth and elastic.

 

Step 3

Lightly flour your work surface. Turn out the dough there, shaping it into a tight ball. Use some oil to lightly grease a separate mixing bowl; transfer the dough, cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate for at least 20 hours, and up to 30 hours.

 

Step 4

Re-flour your work surface. Turn out the chilled dough there, allowing it to gently release from the bowl. Divide it into four equal portions; about 250 grams each.

 

Step 5

Lightly grease a baking sheet with oil.

 

Step 6

Work with one portion of dough at a time, pulling its corners toward the center so they meet; press lightly so they attach, but do not flatten. The dough will tighten up and take on a rounded shape. Flip over the dough so it is seam-side down. Gently cup the dough in your upturned hands. Carefully move it in circles, taking care to prevent any tears. This will help create a tight, even ball.

 

Step 7

Repeat this process with the remaining portions of dough. (At this point, the dough can be sealed in zip-top bags and frozen, for up to 3 months.) Place the dough balls on the baking sheet. Brush them lightly with oil and cover with plastic wrap. Let them rest at room temperature until the dough has nearly doubled in size, about 2 hours.

 

Step 8

At least 30 minutes before baking, position a rack 4 to 6 inches from the broiler element of the oven; preheat to 500 degrees or whatever its highest numbered temperature setting is. Have your pizza toppings assembled and ready to go.

 

Step 9

Place one dough ball on a well-floured surface, then sprinkle more flour on the dough itself. Starting in the center, work the dough into a small disk by pushing your fingers flat into the dough, leaving the edges untouched. Flip over the disk and continue until you have shaped it about 8 inches in diameter.

 

Step 10

Before you move on to stretching the dough, preheat a 12-inch cast-iron skillet on the stove top over medium heat for 3 to 5 minutes. Open the oven door for 10 seconds if you have an electric oven (this lets some heat escape to make sure the broiler will actually turn on even though the oven has reached its maximum temperature) and then turn on the broiler (to high, if you have a choice).

 

Step 11

Drape the dough over the back of your hands and knuckles, being careful not to tear it. Gently rotate the dough, stretching it little by little until it is 10 inches in diameter.

 

Step 12

Carefully transfer the dough to the hot skillet, smoothing it into place with your hands or by sliding and shaking the skillet (use a folded towel or oven mitt because it will be very hot). Add your toppings, leaving a 1/2- to 3/4-inch border around the edge. Give the dough an additional 30 seconds to 1 minute to cook; this will help ensure the bottom crust will be crisped.

 

Step 13

Use oven mitts to transfer the skillet to the oven. Broil the pizza for a total of 3 to 5 minutes, rotating front to back halfway through, until the crust looks puffed and browned. Don’t walk away. A little charring on the crust or toppings is okay, but even a few seconds too much will burn the pizza.

 

Step 14

Neapolitan-Style Pizza Dough with quick pepperoni sauce, Gruyere, potato, chives and goat cheese.

Remove the skillet from the oven, then use tongs to transfer the pizza to a wire rack to cool. After a few minutes, transfer the pizza to a cutting board. Cut it into slices, and serve right away.

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This place is getting a lot like Bob Perry's design reviews - the more talk of wine & food, the less interest there is in the subject at hand.

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38 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

This place is getting a lot like Bob Perry's design reviews - the more talk of wine & food, the less interest there is in the subject at hand.

Bob's pretty much given up on SA anyway so it doesn't matter.

Facebook FFS! OK I can understand why - he has a lot more control of the nutcase class (in theory). But still.

FKT

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Here's the reason the government is talking shit about China. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Trump's US delegation was 'dumbfounded' by hostile reception at Munich conference: report

 
Source: raw story



Published 11 hours ago on February 17, 2020



According to a report from Politico, the U.S. delegation attending the Munich Security Conference were “dumbfounded” by the hostile reception they received from world leaders which included more than a few speeches that were highly critical of the policies of Donald Trump.

The report kicks off by stating, “If the three-day event, which drew to a close on Sunday, illustrated anything, it was that the divergence between the U.S. and the dominant European powers — Germany and France (the U.K. was MIA) — is greater than ever. Those who thought last year’s tense gathering represented a low point in the relationship left Munich this year chastened.”

Read more: https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/trumps-us-delegation-was-dumbfounded-by-hostile-reception-at-munich-conference-report/

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China is simply getting delayed revenge for the way British, American and European traders enslaved half their population with opium in the 1800's, leading to two wars and enormous suffering and death for the Chinese.  Some of today's biggest trading firms and wealthy dynasties got their start selling opiates to the masses......

……..Much like today's American pharma, except they're selling it to the locals. Saves a fortune compared to shipping the shit all the way to China.

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You know, if we in Australia are going to be taken over by Chinese slow economic invasion  or become a complete vassal to Trumps new look USA. It's actually quite difficult to choose the least worse option. 

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5 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

 

at least the chinee don't refer to themselves as the party of 'Family Values'.. ya fkn' moron..

 

 

 

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"May you live in interesting times" ---- ancient Chinese curse.

My dealings with Chinese tourists over the last 5 years have left me with a few observations:  I've never seen an obese Chinese person. They don't expect anybody to pick up their bags for them. They are mostly polite and appreciative of helpful information.I much prefer dealing with them than with English backpackers, who are by and large a bunch of irritating  arseholes.

As far as choosing between domination by the Chinese dictatorship or a Trumpazoid America, it's enough to drive me to drink.  Time for another beer and basting the ribs.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Happy said:

"May you live in interesting times" ---- ancient Chinese curse.

My dealings with Chinese tourists over the last 5 years have left me with a few observations:  I've never seen an obese Chinese person. They don't expect anybody to pick up their bags for them.

Or snap their fingers to get the attention of a server-person, as I've seen an American tourist do.

Let's not start on UK backpackers, please.

FKT

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8 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Here's the reason the government is talking shit about China. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Trump's US delegation was 'dumb.....

FIFY

If they didn't expect a hostile reception, then they are stupid as shit.

Imagine going to a big international conference on ANYthing and not doing the basic homework of googling your compatriots positions. Ignorant, lazy, incompetent... Team Trump selects it's "best people" on the basis of who is willing to kiss Trump's ass.

This is not a path to success

- DSK

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12 hours ago, BravoBravo said:
12 hours ago, Fakenews said:

The enemy is us. Silly drug laws and a nation of willing users.

You are a myopic idiot !!!

That may be but Bull Gator is actually right about the silly drug laws.

He may not have the courage of his convictions to call out Bloomberg for his support of those laws, but he's right anyway.

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12 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

That may be but Bull Gator is actually right about the silly drug laws.

He may not have the courage of his convictions to call out Bloomberg for his support of those laws, but he's right anyway.

I agree about our silly drug laws...but that is an entirely different subject than China/Mexico dumping HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country....

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

I agree about our silly drug laws...but that is an entirely different subject than China/Mexico dumping HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country....

Are they doing that in Portugal?

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7 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Are they doing that in Portugal?

make yourself clear :wub:

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1 minute ago, BravoBravo said:

make yourself clear :wub:

OK, they're doing better at managing these dangerous drugs and it is about the laws. They're not a different subject. They're the reason those "dumping" drugs here are in business.

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Just now, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

OK, they're doing better at managing these dangerous drugs and it is about the laws. They're not a different subject. They're the reason those "dumping" drugs here are in business.

Simplistic conclusion ,comparing Portugal to the US in any meaningful way....first we are a HUGE marketplace with excellent distribution infrastructure and citizens with plenty of disposalable income ...now I really don't care much about other countries in this regard....I am greatly concerned with China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

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6 hours ago, Happy said:

"May you live in interesting times" ---- ancient Chinese curse.

My dealings with Chinese tourists over the last 5 years have left me with a few observations:  I've never seen an obese Chinese person. They don't expect anybody to pick up their bags for them. They are mostly polite and appreciative of helpful information.I much prefer dealing with them than with English backpackers, who are by and large a bunch of irritating  arseholes.

As far as choosing between domination by the Chinese dictatorship or a Trumpazoid America, it's enough to drive me to drink.  Time for another beer and basting the ribs.

Google “Beijing bikini”

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Simplistic conclusion ,comparing Portugal to the US in any meaningful way....first we are a HUGE marketplace with excellent distribution infrastructure and citizens with plenty of disposalable income ...now I really don't care much about other countries in this regard....I am greatly concerned with China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

What fact? 

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Simplistic conclusion ,comparing Portugal to the US in any meaningful way....first we are a HUGE marketplace with excellent distribution infrastructure and citizens with plenty of disposalable income ...now I really don't care much about other countries in this regard....I am greatly concerned with China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

What’s your problem with that?  Do you think they should be charging more? 

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40 minutes ago, Fakenews said:
46 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

...    ...  I am greatly concerned with China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

What’s your problem with that?  Do you think they should be charging more? 

:lol:

His concern is that Trump hasn't figured out how to make money off it, and thus is calling it bad. When Trump or his kids start raking in a percentage, then suddenly the easy availability of painkillers will be trumpeted to the skies as one of his accomplishments. You don't like pain, do ya?

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

What fact? 

 China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

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4 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

 China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

The fact is it's just another something shiny to deflect from the current administration.  Your news sources suck dude.  Well, actually they are very effective in controlling you.

as Eva Dent

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"The opioid crisis and record-setting death counts caused by fentanyl flooding into Canada could get worse because of a growing diplomatic dispute with China, sources have informed Global News.

Canadian law enforcement agencies have found that fentanyl and its chemical precursors are mostly produced in southern China factories and sent to North America via shipping containers, and in the mail."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4658188/fentanyl-china-canada-diplomatic-tensions/

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15 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Small minds do not realize they are being used and abused, not to mention China was behind the killings of 10,000 of Americans in Korea after NK invaded SK ... behind 58,000 names on The Wall   They are global players with very bad intentions and deeds

Maybe we should stop doing business with them.  In fact, since they are the enemy, doing business with them should be prosecutable.

Lock her up!

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Maybe we should stop doing business with them.  In fact, since they are the enemy, doing business with them should be prosecutable.

Lock her up!

What would Bravo do without cheap shit from Walmart?

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

What would Bravo do without cheap shit from Walmart?

A lot of folks would have jobs manufacturing and supporting manufacturing...then they could by more expensive US made products....repeat over and over 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

The fact is it's just another something shiny to deflect from the current administration. Your news sources suck dude.  Well, actually they are very effective in controlling you.

as Eva Dent

Well it seems you don't mind being lied to by yours ,MSM's, 3 years of ...well you know

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

 China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

No.  Let’s start instead with the fact that 100’s  of millions of Americans like to indulge in nicotine, alcohol, pot, meth, extacy, LSD, hash, meth, opioids, heroin, caffeine crack, shrooms and anything else they can get their hands on to change they way they feel.  
 

Let’s face it our problem with drugs is not China. It’s a problem with our society and rampant out of control capitalism that has everyone stressed out.  We need to legalize drugs, demilitarize and focus on things that improve the lives of all Americans like healthcare and infrastructure and social programs and eliminating grifters and amoral asSholes from office.  We need more socialism!

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1 minute ago, Fakenews said:

Mo.  Let’s start instead with the fact that 100’s  of millions of Americans like to indulge in nicotine, alcohol, pot, meth, extacy, LSD, hash, meth, opioids, heroin, caffeine crack, shrooms and anything else they can get there hands on to change they way they feel.  
 

Let’s face it our problem with drugs is not China. It’s a problem with our society and rampant out of control capitalism that has eve tone stressed out.  We need to legalize drugs, de militarize and focus on things that improve the lives of all Americans like healthcare and infrastructure and social programs and eliminating grifters and amoral as holes from office. We need more socialism!

 

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What seems to missing here is an acknowledgement of the new world order.  The US has chosen to begin the process of isolation in the world.  It has chosen to cut back on many of the responsibilities that allow it cultural and economic dominance in the world. Therefore it is losing many of it's privileges.  China and Russia are being blamed for filling political and economic power vacuua.  To characterize an economic rival as an enemy then leads to the destruction of positive connections and leads to further isolation of the US.  This leads to the same situation that China put itself into in the 1400s.

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3 hours ago, Laker said:

What seems to missing here is an acknowledgement of the new world order.  The US has chosen to begin the process of isolation in the world.  It has chosen to cut back on many of the responsibilities that allow it cultural and economic dominance in the world. Therefore it is losing many of it's privileges.  China and Russia are being blamed for filling political and economic power vacuua.  To characterize an economic rival as an enemy then leads to the destruction of positive connections and leads to further isolation of the US.  This leads to the same situation that China put itself into in the 1400s.

Trumpublicans want to "Put America First" meaning that they want to ignore the rest of the world, which they don't know much about anyway, except when they're bullying some helpless country into giving up it's oil for cheap.

The rest of the world then looks to different, more reliable, leadership both morally and economically.

Trumpublicans screech that the country taking the position they abdicated is "the enemy."

Do any of them have a lick of common sense?

- DSK

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Looks like Trump forgot to copy Bravo on the new message. China is not an enemy! He shouldn’t feel bad however, looks like most of Trump’s team were caught unaware.

 

WASHINGTON — President Trump publicly objected to efforts within his own administration to restrict the sales of American technology to China over national security concerns, insisting on Tuesday that such fears were an “excuse” and that the United States was open for business.

Mr. Trump’s comments appeared to represent a striking reversal of his administration’s aspirations to curb China’s ascent as a global leader in technology and came as cabinet officials were expected to discuss tougher restrictions on China later this month.

That meeting, set for Feb. 28, was expected to include a discussion about whether to halt sales to China of an aircraft engine produced in part by General Electric by blocking its license to export the technology. Officials were also expected to consider new rules that would further curtail the ability of Huawei, the Chinese telecom giant, to have access to American technology, including semiconductors.

But on Tuesday, Mr. Trump seemed to pre-emptively scuttle such moves. Two people familiar with the matter said that the late February meeting was on hold and that the U.S. would not block G.E.’s ability to sell jet engine parts to China.

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On 2/17/2020 at 8:00 PM, BravoBravo said:

In every possible way!

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/02/13/meth-opioids-new-epidemic-of-addiction/4551991002/

yeah... contribute to the Peace Boat while you whistle past the greatest threat to world peace .... China is an EVIL Empire with a smile on its face 

You do understand the difference between a rival and an enemy - or do you see every rival as an enemy?

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Rival is a good choice of words, but this rival plays by its own rules. While putting up a very good facade for the rest of the world to view.

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14 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

That may be but Bull Gator is actually right about the silly drug laws.

He may not have the courage of his convictions to call out Bloomberg for his support of those laws, but he's right anyway.

someone lacks courage here, and it's not the gator.  a straw man might know who is the coward.

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39 minutes ago, Keith said:

Rival is a good choice of words, but this rival plays by its own rules. While putting up a very good facade for the rest of the world to view.

And they are quick to use the race card.

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Anyone that really thinks China is a better choice than the US, even under Trump, is just an ignorant wanker.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Anyone that really thinks China is a better choice than the US, even under Trump, is just an ignorant wanker.

Imagine!

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17 minutes ago, Gissie said:

That you are one?

Ahh yes, a desire for my country to be better, means I want it to be a one-party dictatorship. Yeah, that’s it.

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16 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Ahh yes, a desire for my country to be better, means I want it to be a one-party dictatorship. Yeah, that’s it.

A couple of posters, not you, commented they would likely choose China over the US and Trump. To me this makes them ignorant wankers.

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12 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

The US has ceded its role and China has chosen to act as an enemy.

This after Donnie Dumfuck decided to wage a tariff war...... cus they're easy to win right, BTW who is paying for that trade war?

16,000 lies Donnie crows about winning but he is writing checks to the soy farmers that have no markets, and every American consumer buying ceap shit at walmart is paying more for it, while believing Donnie Dumbfuck when he tells them he's so.......... winning.

Honestly its like the whole friggin country had a bowl of stupid for breakfast.........

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The Chinese see things in the long term. The Opium Wars are not forgotten there, and strategic forward  planning can run into 20- to 50-year projects.

Western politics tends to look no further than the next election, and policies are bent by the demands of campaign donors. Also there is that rule of law thing. You may have won the election, but you can't throw all the dissidents and critics into concentration camps, or send in the Army to kill them.

The Chinese don't have that problem. What Emperor Xi wants, he gets.

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19 hours ago, BravoBravo said:
19 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

OK, they're doing better at managing these dangerous drugs and it is about the laws. They're not a different subject. They're the reason those "dumping" drugs here are in business.

Simplistic conclusion ,comparing Portugal to the US in any meaningful way....first we are a HUGE marketplace with excellent distribution infrastructure and citizens with plenty of disposalable income ...now I really don't care much about other countries in this regard....I am greatly concerned with China and Mexico dumping cheap HIGHLY addictive drugs in our country...let start with that fact 

I don't think the difference in scale implies a difference in incentives and motivations.

The incentives and motivations for black markets are the same around the world and through time as well.

Countries are not "dumping" anything. Dealers are taking an opportunity to make a buck.

I'm greatly concerned that prohibition has spawned a black market that gives them such a great opportunity. I'm also greatly concerned that people think prohibition is somehow going to start working and stop creating more powerful and dangerous drugs and drug dealers.

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:
20 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

That may be but Bull Gator is actually right about the silly drug laws.

He may not have the courage of his convictions to call out Bloomberg for his support of those laws, but he's right anyway.

someone lacks courage here, and it's not the gator.  a straw man might know who is the coward.

Vaguest messenger attack of the week. Please ask your straw man to spell out who/what he is gossiping about.

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2 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

This after Donnie Dumfuck decided to wage a tariff war...... cus they're easy to win right, BTW who is paying for that trade war?

16,000 lies Donnie crows about winning but he is writing checks to the soy farmers that have no markets, and every American consumer buying ceap shit at walmart is paying more for it, while believing Donnie Dumbfuck when he tells them he's so.......... winning.

Honestly its like the whole friggin country had a bowl of stupid for breakfast.........

Much better to just grasp your ankles and get fucked senseless like was happening and still is everywhere else.

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4 hours ago, Happy said:

The Chinese see things in the long term. The Opium Wars are not forgotten there, and strategic forward  planning can run into 20- to 50-year projects.

Western politics tends to look no further than the next election, and policies are bent by the demands of campaign donors. Also there is that rule of law thing. You may have won the election, but you can't throw all the dissidents and critics into concentration camps, or send in the Army to kill them.

The Chinese don't have that problem. What Emperor Xi wants, he gets.

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/intercepts/2015/01/27/book-review-the-hundred-year-marathon/

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The long term for China has one big problem that will determine its behaviour in the short term.  The one child policy.  It realized that continuing unfettered population growth would bury any advancement in living conditions.  However, what we have now is a population demographic that looks like a pear instead of a triangle.  Not a lot of youngsters, a lot of older people and a tapering off with age as people die.  Good at the moment, because there are a lot of people to get things done.  Looking down the line there will be less younger people supporting an ageing workforce.  More importantly the internal market will dwindle as the consumers, the young people who buy things, need housing, cars, nappies, baby food, etc. are less and less.You will now notice that China has let go of the one child policy.  This was planned as they came to a population demographic that they felt was workable.  

Lets look at the population of South Korea.  Even without a one child policy, their population went from 6 children per woman in 1960 to 0.98 children per woman presently.  This means that South Korea must export because there is really no internal market.  Housing in South Korea is becoming easier and easier to find.

Now apply that to China a few years down the line.  They have to do things like lead the development of Africa in order to survive economically in the short term in order to feed that great bulge of 40 year olds.  I think they will become more and more aggressive in the non-Western world in the next few years as the US, which was a great market for an expanding economy, and transfer their energy to more reliable markets.  The issue will come with the US.  Some in the US will say to not support those those lazy do-nothings in the rest of the world while some in the US will see the expansion of China as a security risk and look for direct intervention.  Orango has been inconsistent in his approach. It will be interesting.

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12 hours ago, Keith said:

Rival is a good choice of words, but this rival plays by its own rules. While putting up a very good facade for the rest of the world to view.

As if the United States has not played by its own rule set in the years since WWI. One thing that the US did was use its power to incorporate its rules into a variety of international institutions - the World Bank and Bretton Woods are good examples. That is how a superpower works - really no different than the British Empire, Roman Empire or the Ming Dynasty. As China's clout in the world increases it becomes more and more capable of imposing its rule set. Nothing new here. We really need to look longer term here. China is good at it, the West not so much.

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3 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

As if the United States has not played by its own rule set in the years since WWI. One thing that the US did was use its power to incorporate its rules into a variety of international institutions - the World Bank and Bretton Woods are good examples. That is how a superpower works - really no different than the British Empire, Roman Empire or the Ming Dynasty. As China's clout in the world increases it becomes more and more capable of imposing its rule set. Nothing new here. We really need to look longer term here. China is good at it, the West not so much.

The West WAS good at it, for a nice long time. But now the wealthy are squabbling over the 10% they don't own, while china looks to grow influence rather than play a zero-sum game.

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China has realized the “leaders” of the West - political, business, sports, social - are easily and cheaply bought, and have been buying them for a couple decades now. The deep aversion to conflict in those spheres so the managers can go on making $$ until they hit the exit has long served China. Great example is Huawei; Cisco had them dead to rights for theft and folded so as to sell more shit. Huawei hasn’t stopped stealing.

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12 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

China has realized the “leaders” of the West - political, business, sports, social - are easily and cheaply bought, and have been buying them for a couple decades now. The deep aversion to conflict in those spheres so the managers can go on making $$ until they hit the exit has long served China. Great example is Huawei; Cisco had them dead to rights for theft and folded so as to sell more shit. Huawei hasn’t stopped stealing.

it's hard to overstate that one. The whole 5G thing can be traced back to this. A Chinese national engineer copied the IOS (Cisco's operating system) to disk and took it back to china. The created a router and loaded IOS - and sold it.  Documentation was photocopied IOS manuals.

Huawei had no routing tech before that.

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25 minutes ago, Laker said:

The long term for China has one big problem that will determine its behaviour in the short term.  The one child policy.  It realized that continuing unfettered population growth would bury any advancement in living conditions.  However, what we have now is a population demographic that looks like a pear instead of a triangle.  Not a lot of youngsters, a lot of older people and a tapering off with age as people die.  Good at the moment, because there are a lot of people to get things done.  Looking down the line there will be less younger people supporting an ageing workforce.  More importantly the internal market will dwindle as the consumers, the young people who buy things, need housing, cars, nappies, baby food, etc. are less and less.You will now notice that China has let go of the one child policy.  This was planned as they came to a population demographic that they felt was workable.  

Lets look at the population of South Korea.  Even without a one child policy, their population went from 6 children per woman in 1960 to 0.98 children per woman presently.  This means that South Korea must export because there is really no internal market.  Housing in South Korea is becoming easier and easier to find.

Now apply that to China a few years down the line.  They have to do things like lead the development of Africa in order to survive economically in the short term in order to feed that great bulge of 40 year olds.  I think they will become more and more aggressive in the non-Western world in the next few years as the US, which was a great market for an expanding economy, and transfer their energy to more reliable markets.  The issue will come with the US.  Some in the US will say to not support those those lazy do-nothings in the rest of the world while some in the US will see the expansion of China as a security risk and look for direct intervention.  Orango has been inconsistent in his approach. It will be interesting.

I think the big problem that China has with the One Child Policy is not the one you mention. The policy was brought in to naturally accelerate a totally normal process - demographic process. It worked in the sense that China passed through the stages of demographic transition that produce high population more quickly than they might have. The obvious comparator is India. In 1979 when the OCP was introduced, China's total fertility rate was a bit higher than India. Now China is at 1.6 and India at 2.3 (note that India's fertility rate has dropped greatly due to 'normal' demographic transition. The OCP was probably kept in place about 8 to 10 years too long but nothing can be done about that now. The problem that China faces is not shortage of labour because they formerly wasted what was then cheap labour and now they use their labour more efficiently and are getting big into automation, it is that they do not, as yet, have the social safety net to support an old population. Many countries in the West, Spain and Italy are good examples, have much older populations but they do have a variety of social and health supports. In the past, old people in China were supported by their families but there lots of younger people to support relatively few older people. Now and in the future that will not be the case. Note that on the graph the small number of people in age groups ranging from 0 to 60 are not direct products of the one child policy. Rather they are what happens when demographic transition happens. The OCP meant that there are fewer people to have kids. Demographic transition meant that in the next generation this smaller number had smaller families.

 

 

770763559_ScreenShot2020-02-19at12_14_15PM.thumb.png.86ef0933c42aae3cf18cf4578c6d650a.png

You can generate population pyramids and get lots of good demographic data here. Thank you, US taxpayers.

https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/idb/informationGateway.php

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5 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think the big problem that China has with the One Child Policy is not the one you mention. The policy was brought in to naturally accelerate a totally normal process - demographic process. It worked in the sense that China passed through the stages of demographic transition that produce high population more quickly than they might have. The obvious comparator is India. In 1979 when the OCP was introduced, China's total fertility rate was a bit higher than India. Now China is at 1.6 and India at 2.3 (note that India's fertility rate has dropped greatly due to 'normal' demographic transition. The OCP was probably kept in place about 8 to 10 years too long but nothing can be done about that now. The problem that China faces is not shortage of labour because they formerly wasted what was then cheap labour and now they use their labour more efficiently and are getting big into automation, it is that they do not, as yet, have the social safety net to support an old population. Many countries in the West, Spain and Italy are good examples, have much older populations but they do have a variety of social and health supports. In the past, old people in China were supported by their families but there lots of younger people to support relatively few older people. Now and in the future that will not be the case. Note that on the graph the small number of people in age groups ranging from 0 to 60 are not direct products of the one child policy. Rather they are what happens when demographic transition happens. The OCP meant that there are fewer people to have kids. Demographic transition meant that in the next generation this smaller number had smaller families.

 

 

770763559_ScreenShot2020-02-19at12_14_15PM.thumb.png.86ef0933c42aae3cf18cf4578c6d650a.png

You can generate population pyramids and get lots of good demographic data here. Thank you, US taxpayers.

https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/idb/informationGateway.php

Thank you for this link. 

I recently introduced the "Population Dynamics" unit to my classes.  We will be discussing Demographic Transition and Age Structure Diagrams. 

This tool looks to be very useful.

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38 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

China has realized the “leaders” of the West - political, business, sports, social - are easily and cheaply bought, and have been buying them for a couple decades now. The deep aversion to conflict in those spheres so the managers can go on making $$ until they hit the exit has long served China. Great example is Huawei; Cisco had them dead to rights for theft and folded so as to sell more shit. Huawei hasn’t stopped stealing.

excellent post

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56 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

The West WAS good at it, for a nice long time. But now the wealthy are squabbling over the 10% they don't own, while china looks to grow influence rather than play a zero-sum game.

If you think about it, our last classically trained (in the mold of a Breton Woods American Empireat least) President was Bush 1, and he was kissing Reagan’s ass at least to to get in office, although once in office he started moving back to some sort of principle.  Since then, it’s been, in Bertram Gross’s language, friendly fascism, as MJ’s #70 post makes plain, it’s been presidents mostly representing a greedy and panicky investor class.  And now we’ve got the bottom of the barrel with our present ass licking President. 

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

it's hard to overstate that one. The whole 5G thing can be traced back to this. A Chinese national engineer copied the IOS (Cisco's operating system) to disk and took it back to china. The created a router and loaded IOS - and sold it.  Documentation was photocopied IOS manuals.

Huawei had no routing tech before that.

I’ve a good guess Huawei has DOD funded research results, design & data given to them - without permission- by my boss at a former employer. This was under W, and mea culpa, although it was shitty tech so Caveat Fur. I see it as a bipartisan policy of not really caring that’s lasted until recently.

unfortunately trumps approached it with a hammer destroying good and bad.

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A few more thoughts on China:

When and if the Politburo decides more young people are needed, the population will be instructed and rewarded to breed like rabbits for a decade or two.

I've never seen a Chinese person with a tattoo.They get seasick, easily and often. They respond very well to "the voice of authority".

In their culture, hierarchy is all. Don't be the one who has to give the Boss the bad news. Bosses don't communicate with the lower orders to find out what's  really going on. 

The old saying "Chinese Fire Drill" describes a scene where everyone is running around cluelessly, shouting, waving their arms and fucking things up.

They're big, but they're not deadly sharp yet.

 

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1 hour ago, Happy said:

A few more thoughts on China:

When and if the Politburo decides more young people are needed, the population will be instructed and rewarded to breed like rabbits for a decade or two.

I've never seen a Chinese person with a tattoo.They get seasick, easily and often. They respond very well to "the voice of authority".

In their culture, hierarchy is all. Don't be the one who has to give the Boss the bad news. Bosses don't communicate with the lower orders to find out what's  really going on. 

The old saying "Chinese Fire Drill" describes a scene where everyone is running around cluelessly, shouting, waving their arms and fucking things up.

They're big, but they're not deadly sharp yet.

 

ouch..that's kinda racist.

Tattoos in in many places other than china are associated with crime gangs when they are not tribal. It's a cultural thing. You'd respond well to the voice of authority if you were in China ..even as a tourist..oh yeah..you'd respond very well.

I'm not too keen on masses of people from China buying up Australia (But I guess the Aboriginals said that too) I'm not about to make general assumptions about the chineesy character of over a billion people either.:rolleyes:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Happy said:

They respond very well to "the voice of authority".

Yes : Singapore

and

No : HK

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The Tear of Allah

Quote

The Chinese Communist Party confiscated a sacred meteorite from Muslim herders. They're suing to get it back.

Communists have funny ideas about individual property rights. I'm kind of surprised there's any case at all.

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5 hours ago, Happy said:

A few more thoughts on China:

When and if the Politburo decides more young people are needed, the population will be instructed and rewarded to breed like rabbits for a decade or two.

I've never seen a Chinese person with a tattoo.They get seasick, easily and often. They respond very well to "the voice of authority".

In their culture, hierarchy is all. Don't be the one who has to give the Boss the bad news. Bosses don't communicate with the lower orders to find out what's  really going on. 

The old saying "Chinese Fire Drill" describes a scene where everyone is running around cluelessly, shouting, waving their arms and fucking things up.

They're big, but they're not deadly sharp yet.

 

Racist much? I thought that you forgot to turn on the purple font, but then I realized you meant this silliness. Just a couple of comments, since the end of the OCP the Chinese have been making patriotic noises to try to get people to have a second child. It hasn't worked. The total fertility rate in the last year of the OCP was 1.60. It is now 1.61. Pro-natalist policies have been tried in countries as diverse as Italy, Singapore, and China and none have worked.

My wife, who is Chinese, naver had any sense of sea sickness in a 35,000+ nm circumnavigation. I have talked to other long distance Chinese cruisers and none of them have SS issues either. Do you think that Chinese attitudes to hierarchy might have changed in the last half century, because they have. Bosses, the Jack Mas of the world, obviously don't have a clue about how to run a business, especially how to provide structure during a crisis so you get Chinese Fire Drills.  Give me a break, seriously.

No idea at all what your last sentence means.

The Chinese, government and business alike, really are fans of people in the West who dismiss them with ridiculous, racist stereotypes. It makes winning that much easier for them.

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8 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Racist much? I thought that you forgot to turn on the purple font, but then I realized you meant this silliness. Just a couple of comments, since the end of the OCP the Chinese have been making patriotic noises to try to get people to have a second child. It hasn't worked. The total fertility rate in the last year of the OCP was 1.60. It is now 1.61. Pro-natalist policies have been tried in countries as diverse as Italy, Singapore, and China and none have worked.

My wife, who is Chinese, naver had any sense of sea sickness in a 35,000+ nm circumnavigation. I have talked to other long distance Chinese cruisers and none of them have SS issues either. Do you think that Chinese attitudes to hierarchy might have changed in the last half century, because they have. Bosses, the Jack Mas of the world, obviously don't have a clue about how to run a business, especially how to provide structure during a crisis so you get Chinese Fire Drills.  Give me a break, seriously.

No idea at all what your last sentence means.

The Chinese, government and business alike, really are fans of people in the West who dismiss them with ridiculous, racist stereotypes. It makes winning that much easier for them.

I think he has made all these assumptions from Chinese tourists he has dealt with. Feels it gives him deep insight into their minds.

Living in China shows they are different from the canned bullshit stereotypes and like everywhere, some are nice and some are not.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

I think he has made all these assumptions from Chinese tourists he has dealt with. Feels it gives him deep insight into their minds.

Living in China shows they are different from the canned bullshit stereotypes and like everywhere, some are nice and some are not.

I think a major problem that the West has in dealing with China is an almost pathological aversion to getting to really know about their culture, people, and economy. When one works from stereotypes it is very easy to be taken advantage of. Trump is a perfect example. He is about the least curious creature imaginable and at the same time confident that he knows everything and is smarter than everyone. Xi would spend all day chuckling if he were so busy with Covid-19.

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38 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think a major problem that the West has in dealing with China is an almost pathological aversion to getting to really know about their culture, people, and economy. When one works from stereotypes it is very easy to be taken advantage of. Trump is a perfect example. He is about the least curious creature imaginable and at the same time confident that he knows everything and is smarter than everyone. Xi would spend all day chuckling if he were so busy with Covid-19.

The China culture is in Taiwan... it has been scrubbed under Mao... I know a thing or two about rubbing elbows in a Chinese culture 

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16 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Racist much? I thought that you forgot to turn on the purple font, but then I realized you meant this silliness. Just a couple of comments, since the end of the OCP the Chinese have been making patriotic noises to try to get people to have a second child. It hasn't worked. The total fertility rate in the last year of the OCP was 1.60. It is now 1.61. Pro-natalist policies have been tried in countries as diverse as Italy, Singapore, and China and none have worked.

My wife, who is Chinese, naver had any sense of sea sickness in a 35,000+ nm circumnavigation. I have talked to other long distance Chinese cruisers and none of them have SS issues either. Do you think that Chinese attitudes to hierarchy might have changed in the last half century, because they have. Bosses, the Jack Mas of the world, obviously don't have a clue about how to run a business, especially how to provide structure during a crisis so you get Chinese Fire Drills.  Give me a break, seriously.

No idea at all what your last sentence means.

The Chinese, government and business alike, really are fans of people in the West who dismiss them with ridiculous, racist stereotypes. It makes winning that much easier for them.

I am not a racist. I grew up in apartheid-era South Africa. I know what institutionalised "sanctioned-by-god" racism looks like. It is evil and stupid and destructive of the human soul.

Racist would be saying that ALL Chinese exhibit the things I commented on, based on observing a couple of thousand tourists a year. Many of them have never been on a boat before, many get seasick.

Hierarchy: My comment was informed by years of reading (always been interested in Chinese history and culture), and by personal talks with people involved with the recent re-opening of a local island resort, now under Chinese ownership and management. It was a fucking disaster, and the main cause was the hierarchy structure. The owners wanted it open by a certain date. And even though they weren't ready (and the on-site general manager wasn't aware just how unready they were) they opened, leading to hundreds of negative online reviews, most featuring the words "ripoff" and "total chaos".  The GM got sacked, and they're still trying rebuild the brand.

One of the prime reasons for Jack Ma's success is that he broke that mould. There are plenty of other Chinese businessmen like him.

Believe me, I do not underestimate the Chinese at all. Their work ethic, focus on education, sense of social responsibility, and plain smarts are all admirable. Obviously, I don't like their dictatorial government, but much like Russia, it's always been some form of dictatorship. Democracy probably wouldn't work there. God knows it's not working so well over here these days.

Equally true is that they are the world's worst drivers, in my experience. Go on, tell me I'm being racist again....

Edit: "Deadly sharp", Darwin Aboriginal slang for being totally efficient and excellent at what you do.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think a major problem that the West has in dealing with China is an almost pathological aversion to getting to really know about their culture, people, and economy. When one works from stereotypes it is very easy to be taken advantage of. Trump is a perfect example. He is about the least curious creature imaginable and at the same time confident that he knows everything and is smarter than everyone. Xi would spend all day chuckling if he were so busy with Covid-19.

a major problem we have down here is "there's so many of them".

Of course..the fact that you notice them in major tourist destinations outnumbering everyone else by something like 10 to one may have something to do with this perception. We like Chinese tourist dollars and tend to forget they don't actually live here.

The Chinese love Australia for exactly the things they overwhelm in tourist numbers "the space" "the wild Ocean"

....Just like cashed up bogans everywhere swamp "idyllic" islands...It's our turn to be culturally fucked over in return for the tourist dollar.

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