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Snatch Block

Glut Of Used Boats (30') For Sale

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The number of used sailboats in the 30 foot range for sale has been growing exponentially over the past year.

Plenty of old plastic from the 80's and 90's.

If they don't sell where will they go to die?

 

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Some get cut up and landfilled. Others go for a song abd occupy a space behind the barn.

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Late winter /early spring is the best time to sell your fun summer toys.

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The artificial reef program or target practice for the navy 

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Some of them sit on the hard for a couple of years wasting away and then an old retired guy thinks he might be able to do that Atlantic circle he was planning 40 years ago but life happened, buys one because they are so cheap.  Having a blast sailing it while I am getting it ready though!

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Cut the keels off and set on a "foundation" or dig a hole and "plant" in the ground up to the waterline, and voila, housing for the homeless???  We have 60k +/- homeless here in the LA area alone...

Would have to beat living in a tent on skid row right?

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

Cut the keels off and set on a "foundation" or dig a hole and "plant" in the ground up to the waterline, and voila, housing for the homeless???  We have 60k +/- homeless here in the LA area alone...

Would have to beat living in a tent on skid row right?

Been saying that for years.  A smart entrepreneur could corner the tiny house market in one move.  Just burry the fuckers, bunker style.  Hell, there is another, build bunkers out of them....  Backyard guest houses maybe.  tons of uses, someone just has to get the bug...  

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Ahh....my half-baked plan is to form a "sindicate" with 2-3 friends I raise U$$ 25-30K, buy a reasonably good 32-34 ft boat and take a sabatical in the US. 

Only problem I still work, and my free time is January-February (summer here, winter in the US). 

Can foreigners buy/insure boats in the US? Also have to check how long a tourist visa is valid. 

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14 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

 

If they don't sell where will they go to die?

 

 

rimashail.jpg

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

Been saying that for years.  A smart entrepreneur could corner the tiny house market in one move.  Just burry the fuckers, bunker style.  Hell, there is another, build bunkers out of them....  Backyard guest houses maybe.  tons of uses, someone just has to get the bug...  

who is going to pump them out?

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i'm guessing the 30' range is it was affordable at the time,  slip fees not too high, but with discretionary income slipping, it's the first dream to go...   richer (bigger boats) folks can hang on a lot longer..   waiting for the   32-35' range to sliding..

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6 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

who is going to pump them out?

Mason Jars silly..  We don need no stinkin pump out... 

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2 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

i'm guessing the 30' range is it was affordable at the time,  slip fees not too high, but with discretionary income slipping, it's the first dream to go...   richer (bigger boats) folks can hang on a lot longer..   waiting for the   32-35' range to sliding..

With you. Thinking that a nicely kept Tartan 33 will make a nice sub-10K first family cruiser in a couple of years.

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I was just talking about this with a local broker a few weeks back. It seems like in the late 80s and 90s there were a ton of production 30 footers. Now days seeing a production 30 footer is pretty rare. Seems like everyone buying new boats are going either smaller or bigger. 33-35 footers are pretty common in new boats now.

That being said...

I've had my eye on a few 30 footers from the 90s that are finally falling into the "Club Racer/Weekend Warrior" price range. I see some Farr/Mumm 30s now in the mid 20's.

It will be a shame to see the 30 footer become a thing of the past though as older boats get landfilled or cut up.

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Part of it is the common sales pitch of 35' to 40' being termed "entry level".

It affects newbies expectations.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Part of it is the common sales pitch of 35' to 40' being termed "entry level".

It affects newbies expectations.

This, plus all the advertising that depicts sailing as a "Lifestyle activity"  not an action/adventure sport...So newbies are expecting a dockside condo, with a slim young blonde in a bikini.  

Couple years ago at the Annapolis Boatshow, I went on the new Jeanneau 319.  (Tiny) wheel steering, furling main, big table in the cockpit.  Sail controls regulated to 3rd or 4th priority.  Down below was typical Ikea grade, with all hard sharp corners.  Damn thing has a light ship displacement of over 11,000 lbs.  And I can't find a single PHRF rating for one.

According to Jeanneau "this entry-level sailboat" comes with two enclosed cabins, a well-appointed galley, and a head compartment with shower....

And here I thought a Catalina 22 was an entry level boat.

 

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The labour hours for smaller boats goes UP compared to slightly larger ones in this range. Because not enough room to work and workers getting in each others way.

So better ROI if you sell 10 x 40' boats than 30 x 30' boats

Look at Marlow Hunter:

15, 18, 22 trailerable day sailers

31 (32' 4" really), 33, 37, 40, 42, 47, 50

Nothing in the 23-30' range. Just not profitable.
 

And they are not getting prettier (33' pictured)

33-header.jpg

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A lot of people don’t have 200k to blow on a new 30 footer either 

many would rather spend 40-60k on an larger older well maintained boat. 
 

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2 hours ago, jetfuel said:

A lot of people don’t have 200k to blow on a new 30 footer either 

many would rather spend 40-60k on an larger older well maintained boat. 

 

18 hours ago, Jubblies said:

I've had my eye on a few 30 footers from the 90s that are finally falling into the "Club Racer/Weekend Warrior" price range. I see some Farr/Mumm 30s now in the mid 20's.

Exactly!

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22 hours ago, plenamar said:

Ahh....my half-baked plan is to form a "sindicate" with 2-3 friends I raise U$$ 25-30K, buy a reasonably good 32-34 ft boat and take a sabatical in the US. 

Only problem I still work, and my free time is January-February (summer here, winter in the US). 

Can foreigners buy/insure boats in the US? Also have to check how long a tourist visa is valid. 

This year we didn't really have winter in Maryland, so your timeline would have got you some great sailing :D

That said, if you fly all the way here you would be advised to charter in Florida someplace ;)

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4 hours ago, jetfuel said:

A lot of people don’t have 200k to blow on a new 30 footer either 

many would rather spend 40-60k on an larger older well maintained boat. 
 

This is one of those interesting dilemmas right?  The operating and running costs of a larger boat are greater than of a smaller boat.  Slip fees, sails, lines, etc, etc.  While I've owned 5 used boats, and 1 new boat, I can say there is something to be said for buying new, and keeping it well maintained.  From years of buying used boats, I can tell you that very few people (apparently) maintain their boats as well as I did/do.  You also get your new boat just the way you want it, as opposed to accepting some compromising other PO's made.  For that privilege, you typically take a massive hit on depreciation.  All boats are a compromise...

 

Also, I think the Boat Show Price at the time was around $130k, which seemed pretty reasonable...

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a used 28-32' sailboat sells every 49 minutes so the demand is good if the value is there. The $5,000. boats that need $15,000. in work are not part of this overview. 

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On 2/25/2020 at 6:21 PM, Snatch Block said:

The number of used sailboats in the 30 foot range for sale has been growing exponentially over the past year.

Plenty of old plastic from the 80's and 90's.

If they don't sell where will they go to die?

 

You should list which areas have the boats for sail. It would be interesting to see if a certain area has the bulk for sale.

On 2/26/2020 at 6:14 AM, Crash said:

Cut the keels off and set on a "foundation" or dig a hole and "plant" in the ground up to the waterline, and voila, housing for the homeless???  We have 60k +/- homeless here in the LA area alone...

Would have to beat living in a tent on skid row right?

On 2/26/2020 at 7:33 AM, shaggy said:

Been saying that for years.  A smart entrepreneur could corner the tiny house market in one move.  Just burry the fuckers, bunker style.  Hell, there is another, build bunkers out of them....  Backyard guest houses maybe.  tons of uses, someone just has to get the bug...  

 

Yea, the Kalifornia environmental impact study would take 10+ years and besides the sanitation needed to be laid down would be monumental. And then there is the Not in my Backyard attitude.
If you want to fix the homeless issue, fix the Mental health system that Reagan dismantled in the 70s and 80's. Families are not equipped to handle many of these problems when they have to all work to pay for housing in this ridiculously run state.

 

On 2/26/2020 at 8:49 AM, plenamar said:

Ahh....my half-baked plan is to form a "sindicate" with 2-3 friends I raise U$$ 25-30K, buy a reasonably good 32-34 ft boat and take a sabatical in the US. 

Only problem I still work, and my free time is January-February (summer here, winter in the US). 

Can foreigners buy/insure boats in the US? Also have to check how long a tourist visa is valid. 

As far as I know, you should be able to buy, insure and store...............if you can pay for it, you can have it.

 

21 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

a used 28-32' sailboat sells every 49 minutes so the demand is good if the value is there. The $5,000. boats that need $15,000. in work are not part of this overview. 

I've tried to sell my boat, turnkey purchase very reasonable price. to my experience, only larger 35+ are selling quick. Which means upper middle class. We are not back to the economy of the 70's middle class yet.

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57 minutes ago, Gumbercules said:

If you want to fix the homeless issue, fix the Mental health system that Reagan dismantled in the 70s and 80's. Families are not equipped to handle many of these problems when they have to all work to pay for housing in this ridiculously run state.

AMEN BROTHER

Its not just California.  The mental health system nation wide was destroyed.  Now doctors at local mental health centers only treat specific psychosis and possibly some bi-polar cases.  Give em a prescription for a phenothiazine class drug and send them home.  Phenothiazine class drugs are noted to have serious, permanent side effects.  I have witnessed seeing five year old children on these classes of drugs for of all things, hyperactivity.  Ever see a five year old boy WHO WAS NOT HYPER?  Even today, Thorazine is used to treat hiccups?????  Upset Stomach????  This shit is CRAZY

Oh, back to the point.  phenothiazine drugs may resolve symptoms of Schizophrenia but according to many of the clients I have worked with, leaves a person feeling very uncomfortable in a physical way.  They don’t like it and don’t like to take it.  For us folks who have had a colonoscopy, think ho you feel when taking the prep.  Not the same syntoms but defiantly the same ill feeling.  

So, what few we will actually treat, we send home with a few pills that they won’t take, pat ourselves on the back at what an outstanding job we have done and when they shoot up an elementary school, killing dozens of young children and teachers....We push the blame off on something or someone else.  

So, sorry for the thread hyjack rant.  

Back to boats.  Saw em up, grind up the chunks and mix powder with asphalt and pave roads with it.  Has to be better than chip seal paving.  

But save me a good one, just in case I decide to upgrade the S2

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1 hour ago, Gumbercules said:

You should list which areas have the boats for sail. It would be interesting to see if a certain area has the bulk for sale.

 

Yea, the Kalifornia environmental impact study would take 10+ years and besides the sanitation needed to be laid down would be monumental. And then there is the Not in my Backyard attitude.
If you want to fix the homeless issue, fix the Mental health system that Reagan dismantled in the 70s and 80's. Families are not equipped to handle many of these problems when they have to all work to pay for housing in this ridiculously run state.

 

As far as I know, you should be able to buy, insure and store...............if you can pay for it, you can have it

Foreigners cannot USCG document a boat.  The owner must be a US citizen.  No big deal unless you are financing the boat and the bank requires documentation as a condition of financing.

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10 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Foreigners cannot USCG document a boat.  The owner must be a US citizen.  No big deal unless you are financing the boat and the bank requires documentation as a condition of financing.

Can you resolve that by setting up a company to purchase the boat?

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5 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Can you resolve that by setting up a company to purchase the boat?

A good question.  I’ve seen USCG documents showing that a family trust owns the boat or an LLC.  But so far as I know, all named owners must be US citizens.  A really good documentation expert should be able to easily answer the question.  My knowledge about documentation is pretty much limited to easy and obvious stuff.

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7 hours ago, jetfuel said:

A lot of people don’t have 200k to blow on a new 30 footer either

The dealers have financing options for you. ;)

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5 hours ago, efrank said:

Oh, good Lord! I can't unsee that.

It used to be worse.

image.png.e37409db9faf40713cb18af4c2f9cf45.png

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On 2/25/2020 at 9:21 PM, Snatch Block said:

The number of used sailboats in the 30 foot range for sale has been growing exponentially over the past year.

Plenty of old plastic from the 80's and 90's.

If they don't sell where will they go to die?

 

 

  I dunno...My 47 yr old 33 ft glass boat is doing just fine.

photo.thumb.JPG.3cc891ee5c80a6c8ad4a624f6b6d368c.JPG

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15 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Foreigners cannot USCG document a boat.  The owner must be a US citizen.  No big deal unless you are financing the boat and the bank requires documentation as a condition of financing.

Do you need to?  What's the benefit of USCG documentation?

Just curious- I'm UK based with no intention of owning a boat in the USA.  AFAIK, a US citizen wouldn't have any issues buying and using a boat here in the UK, as long as it wasn't being operated for profit.

Cheers,

                W.

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glut of crap yes - very very few good boats out there....dont drag ur feet when u find one there fella

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22 hours ago, Crash said:

 From years of buying used boats, I can tell you that very few people (apparently) maintain their boats as well as I did/do. 

This right here. 

Its not hard to maintain a (GRP) boat in fantastic condition for not all that much work a year, keep on top of all the jobs and its easy.

Bringing back a neglected boat is expensive, time consuming and for most people just not worth it (if they had the time anyway, weekends usually won't cut it). 

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4 hours ago, WGWarburton said:

Do you need to?  What's the benefit of USCG documentation?

Just curious- I'm UK based with no intention of owning a boat in the USA.  AFAIK, a US citizen wouldn't have any issues buying and using a boat here in the UK, as long as it wasn't being operated for profit.

Cheers,

                W.

Do you need to? No.  In the US there are 51 different laws and regulations dealing with the registration and licensing of boats.  Each state and Washington, DC do it differently.  Some states issue titles, some don’t. Some have separate administrative structures to handle boat registration, some don’t.  In any event, dealing with 51 different sets of laws gets to be a hassle.  Especially when a boat is sold into a state that has very strict licensing or other requirements

Lending institutions do not want to deal with all that, so as a condition of them giving you a loan to buy that boat, they often, not always, require USCG documentation.  Uniformity regardless of which state the boat actually resides or is used in.  

Even when a boat is documented states often require that they be registered in the state as well.  The state wants its tax money so they get you for a use tax, which by the merest of coincidences, often is the same amount as the sales tax in that state.

Non US citizens can own and operate boats in the US, they just can’t document them.

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6 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Do you need to? No.  In the US there are 51 different laws and regulations dealing with the registration and licensing of boats.  Each state and Washington, DC do it differently.  Some states issue titles, some don’t. Some have separate administrative structures to handle boat registration, some don’t.  In any event, dealing with 51 different sets of laws gets to be a hassle.  Especially when a boat is sold into a state that has very strict licensing or other requirements

Lending institutions do not want to deal with all that, so as a condition of them giving you a loan to buy that boat, they often, not always, require USCG documentation.  Uniformity regardless of which state the boat actually resides or is used in.  

Even when a boat is documented states often require that they be registered in the state as well.  The state wants its tax money so they get you for a use tax, which by the merest of coincidences, often is the same amount as the sales tax in that state.

Non US citizens can own and operate boats in the US, they just can’t document them.

The main reason mine is documented is to keep the ugly state numbers off the topsides.

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3 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

The main reason mine is documented is to keep the ugly state numbers off the topsides.

Seen that reason more than a few times.  Then there are the folks who can’t or don’t read and follow directions and put their doc numbers on the topsides.  Sheesh.

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On 2/26/2020 at 7:35 PM, Crash said:

And here I thought a Catalina 22 was an entry level boat.

 

It still is, just like an old used Corolla is an entry level car.

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2 hours ago, blurocketsmate said:

It still is, just like an old used Corolla is an entry level car.

My favourite cars! 78 SR5 hatchback, and a '99 LE with 5 speed. The latter was really the best. Original clutch at 253kmiles!

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

My favourite cars! 78 SR5 hatchback, and a '99 LE with 5 speed. The latter was really the best. Original clutch at 253kmiles!

Back when Corollas were actually interesting.....

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Corollas were actually interesting

:lol:

What would you regard as a boring transportation unit?

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Corollas were actually interesting

:lol:

What would you regard as a boring transportation unit?

Well they don't sell manual transmissions any  longer...so all boring at Toyota Snooze-fest.

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Corollas were actually interesting

:lol:

What would you regard as a boring transportation unit?

Modern Corollas.

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paid  £11k for my 1988 jeanneau sundream end of 2017, have spent about 8k+ since on upgrading it, new headlining, hull gelcoat repairs and rigging, new electronics etc

 

doubt ill ever make a profit on it if i wanted to sell her.

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On 2/27/2020 at 9:07 AM, KC375 said:

Can you resolve that by setting up a company to purchase the boat?

Why not,  this is the land of:  "Corporations are people too, my friend."

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