Absolutely positively ILCA

[Bill5 1,595]

6 hours ago, sosoomii said:

That’s hilarious - European and Australian Lasers being used to promote North American ILCAs 

My guess is they are European and Australia sailors, sailing Australian-made boats while participating in a charter event in North America.

Bad photo pick, but nevertheless there are 200 PSA boats now in North America. Likely the message they are looking to deliver. 

[tillerman 1,254]

1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

My guess is they are European and Australia sailors, sailing Australian-made boats while participating in a charter event in North America.

Bad photo pick, but nevertheless there are 200 PSA boats now in North America. Likely the message they are looking to deliver. 

I did a Google search to find events at which those five sail numbers were listed in the results,  and the only one Google could find was the 2020 Australian Laser Nationals at Sandringham YC in January of last year. http://sailingresults.net/sa/results/overall.aspx?ID=80313.1 

Not ILCAs.
Not in North America.
Not sold since September last year.

Totally misleading photo to show with this claim.

 

[Bill5 1,595]

Well it hasn’t misled you. But the fact remains they have sold a couple hundred boats in NA. But good sleuthing!

[Bill5 1,595]

Perhaps it is an ad with some deep subliminal messaging:

- demonstrating the international presence of the boat

- cleverly showing it is replacing the old Laser

Those sneaky bastards.

[Gyve 1]

On 10/29/2020 at 2:11 PM, tillerman said:

Why is PSA using a photo of Lasers to brag about sales of ILCAs?

...is it last September? Otherwise this seems like BS, how many dealers do they have in NA? 5? And they are all buying 2 full containers? 3 of those dealers in the north going into their slow season...

[Bill5 1,595]

Lots of event boats

[torrid 366]

That 200 boats is pent up demand for new boats going back several years.

[VWAP 967]

http://www.laserinternational.org/blog/2020/12/04/australian-speed-rivalry/

 

Australian Speed Rivalry

Who has set the world record for fastest boat speed in a Laser? Without formal class records to compare against, two Australian contenders have surfaced this week.

[VWAP 967]

An interview with Charlie Buckingham on his Laser campaign for the Tokyo 2021 Olympics

by David Schmidt 15 Dec 08:00 PSTDecember 15, 2020

https://www.sail-world.com/news/233321/Charlie-Buckingham-on-his-Tokyo-2021-preparations?source=twitter&fbclid=IwAR3k0vYr5nHwU3ApqvBPcVtMnew8ZUJeMlssLRcPVwJEl-TpfxyPnNOqd1Y

[tillerman 1,254]

[RobbieB 1,174]

On 12/22/2020 at 7:54 AM, tillerman said:

Hi Steve.

[tillerman 1,254]

On 12/22/2020 at 7:54 AM, tillerman said:

Every boatbuilder needs a Steve,

[JulianB 414]

absoutly, 

[Wess 2,429]

Its not going to be a Steve anymore.  It will be a Zhang now.

[RobbieB 1,174]

48 minutes ago, Wess said:

Its not going to be a Steve anymore.  It will be a Zhang now.

Maybe for ZIM

[Bruce Hudson 366]

6 hours ago, Wess said:

Its not going to be a Steve anymore.  It will be a Zhang now.

I would say that the above is a great attempt to gaslight this conversation in a specific direction, however, while an attempt, it isn't that great.

Steve works for PSA in Australia. 

Has been for years.

Steve won't be replaced by 'Zhang'. Steve will be working for PSA for the foreseeable future - he shows no sign of leaving or changing his name.

There are two new ILCA builders currently in the pipeline, Zou Inter Marine in China, and Element Six Composites in Thailand - which along with PSJ will mean there will be three builders in Asia in the near future.

There are no North American builders in the pipeline, so there will continue to be imported boats.

(If the intention of Wess was to continue promoting himself as a person intolerant of Chinese/Asians, then job well done! No reflection of what is actually happening - three builders in Asia? Absolutely positive!)

[Bill5 1,595]

It could be Zhang in any of the manufacturing facilities. Or Pedro, Jakob, Mario, Elizabeth, Vlad, Aazil, Sven, Mimi ... 

[tillerman 1,254]

9 hours ago, Bill5 said:

It could be Zhang in any of the manufacturing facilities. Or Pedro, Jakob, Mario, Elizabeth, Vlad, Aazil, Sven, Mimi ... 

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Every ILCA builder needs a Steve. You can't make quality ILCAs without a Steve. The need for a Steve is so important it is mandated in the class's sacred text - The Holy Construction Manual.

The good news is that there are 1,302,4655 people named Steven in the USA, and 902,598 people named Stephen. All of them are usually called Steve. That makes 2,205,063 Steves. Steves are everywhere. Statistically everybody in the country must know at leas 6.5 Steves. My best friend at high school was a Steve, and my room-mate in college was a Steve. I have a cousin called Steve. When I lived in New Jersey there were 3 Steves at where I worked and a Steve at my sailing club. Four of my Facebook friends are Steves. My great great great grandfather was a Steve. My neighbor is a Steve. My son's neighbor is a Steve. Steves are everywhere.

There is absolutely no excuse why anyone who wanted to build ILCAs in the US couldn't find a Steve to work in their factory. What is wrong with you people?

[Xeon 118]

I have to say going forward it could be a problem finding a Steve in the uk. I know loads of Steve’s but none of them are under 40 

[tillerman 1,254]

1 hour ago, Xeon said:

I have to say going forward it could be a problem finding a Steve in the uk. I know loads of Steve’s but none of them are under 40 

You are correct. Steven is the 200th most popular name for baby boys in the USA now.

But the good news is that the Steve you need in your ILCA boat building business is over 40. It takes 20 years of experience building Lasers to become a fully qualified Steve.

[Wess 2,429]

Well damn that is bad news for folks who buy a new ILCA from Zhang!  But at least ILCA gets their money either way. 

[Bill5 1,595]

39 minutes ago, Wess said:

 But at least ILCA gets their money either way. 

[Bruce Hudson 366]

28 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

I can post without fear of Wess responding.  

Unless someone quotes me (please don't).

[tillerman 1,254]

Rhode Island based Zim Sailing are anticipating the arrival of their first ILCAs "shortly." 

 

 

[RobbieB 1,174]

2 hours ago, tillerman said:

Rhode Island based Zim Sailing are anticipating the arrival of their first ILCAs "shortly." 

 

 

The ACC's at CYC-NC in May are gonna be great!  Assuming COVID doesn't wipe it out it's gonna be awesome to see class builder/dealer support at the events again!

[RobbieB 1,174]

We opened our FB season this past Sunday with 11 boats out.  To many this might not seem like much, but when I started this 4 years ago I was the only boat to show on the first Sunday.  It was freezing and blowing 20 but I went out anyway hoping word would get out that there was a new nutbag laser sailor in town.... This past Sunday we had champagne conditions.  56, sunny, steady breeze 8-10.  

[Wess 2,429]

3 hours ago, tillerman said:

Rhode Island based Zim Sailing are anticipating the arrival of their first ILCAs "shortly." 

 

 

They distributing somebody else's boats or building ILCAs in China?  Shortly, LOL.  Better than soon I suspect.

[tillerman 1,254]

1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

We opened our FB season this past Sunday with 11 boats out.  To many this might not seem like much, but when I started this 4 years ago I was the only boat to show on the first Sunday.  It was freezing and blowing 20 but I went out anyway hoping word would get out that there was a new nutbag laser sailor in town.... This past Sunday we had champagne conditions.  56, sunny, steady breeze 8-10.  

Never underestimate the willingness of people to follow a nutbag!

PS. Well done!

[MR.CLEAN 3,838]

18 minutes ago, Wess said:

They distributing somebody else's boats or building ILCAs in China?  Shortly, LOL.  Better than soon I suspect.

Back from Parler I see

[Wess 2,429]

No, Gab and Mewe.  Parler is dark don't ya know.  But glad you found your way back from CNN and into reality.  More importantly have you been sailing?

[VWAP 967]

2021 Laser Midwinters East

https://theclubspot.com/regatta/KjsfPXFPUr?fbclid=IwAR0wEYCgxjQfxdIOxsGLvqPl6EfyXd-CMrvChsTvcByVszMtMqvX-pfsfZ8

[Wess 2,429]

Hey Clean I forgot to ask. Are you still against the vaccine and spouting conspiracy theories about its approval under a Trump administration? Cause you know these nice folks would like to have their Mid Winter regatta in the great state of FL in the middle of the pandemic exploding yet again and vaccines might be a good thing you think...

[RobbieB 1,174]

18 hours ago, Wess said:

They distributing somebody else's boats or building ILCAs in China?  Shortly, LOL.  Better than soon I suspect.

Both. As I understand it.  I'll know for sure in March when we see what builder brand of NEW boats start showing up.

[M@AYC 83]

Is this regatta in Palm Beach still happening in February?

[torrid 366]

Great grandmasters only, those old enough to get the vaccine.

[Looper 83]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:36 AM, RobbieB said:

Both. As I understand it.  I'll know for sure in March when we see what builder brand of NEW boats start showing up.

https://pbsail.org/regatta/szuMHTcNg5

https://www.regattanetwork.com/event/21473

[Gouvernail 2,855]

22 hours ago, torrid said:

Great grandmasters only, those old enough to get the vaccine.

I am old enough but the dumbasses running the Texas Distribution system just cut off supplies to the health care company I use. 
they are Austin’s largest medical group and so far have given more shots in this area than the combined next three entities... 

WTF... How can these people in charge be so damned  incompetent???

[VWAP 967]

 

[VWAP 967]

On 1/12/2021 at 12:56 PM, VWAP said:

2021 Laser Midwinters East

https://theclubspot.com/regatta/KjsfPXFPUr?fbclid=IwAR0wEYCgxjQfxdIOxsGLvqPl6EfyXd-CMrvChsTvcByVszMtMqvX-pfsfZ8

169 boats so far

[Bruce Hudson 366]

2 hours ago, VWAP said:

169 boats so far

That is surprising, given we are in the midst of a nearly global pandemic. 

How does that compare with previous years? 

[RobbieB 1,174]

16 hours ago, Bruce Hudson said:

That is surprising, given we are in the midst of a nearly global pandemic. 

How does that compare with previous years? 

From what I'm seeing in the SE US ILCA regattas fill up fast.  The ACC's capped out with hours of registration opening.  I think it capped around 98 total boats and they are looking for ways to let more in as there's plenty on the wait list.

Our local district events are pulling 40-50 boats.  3 years ago we were lucky to see a total of 20 all fleets combined.  

With COVID the Jr double handed boats have taken a huge hit so kids are swarming to ILCA's. Some adults are doing the same.  I used to always have about 3 good used boats I knew about for interested folks, but we haven't had anything pop up for sale in our area in months.    

[VWAP 967]

2 hours ago, RobbieB said:

From what I'm seeing in the SE US ILCA regattas fill up fast.  The ACC's capped out with hours of registration opening.  I think it capped around 98 total boats and they are looking for ways to let more in as there's plenty on the wait list.

Our local district events are pulling 40-50 boats.  3 years ago we were lucky to see a total of 20 all fleets combined.  

With COVID the Jr double handed boats have taken a huge hit so kids are swarming to ILCA's. Some adults are doing the same.  I used to always have about 3 good used boats I knew about for interested folks, but we haven't had anything pop up for sale in our area in months.    

WHATTTTTT? Are you sailing there are also grass roots sailors flocking to the class?, buying  new, used  boats and equipment??????????

[Looper 83]

S. Florida master's circuit starts in a week and a half.  I'm excited to attend.

[chuso007 596]

3 hours ago, RobbieB said:

With COVID the Jr double handed boats have taken a huge hit so kids are swarming to ILCA's. Some adults are doing the same.

Same thing's happening here..

[Looper 83]

52 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Same thing's happening here..

 

2 hours ago, VWAP said:

WHATTTTTT? Are you sailing there are also grass roots sailors flocking to the class?, buying  new, used  boats and equipment??????????

Chicago had a huge uptick in Laser sailors as well and boats are scarce.  15YO hulls are fetching over $5k.

[Wess 2,429]

32 minutes ago, Looper said:

 

Chicago had a huge uptick in Laser sailors as well and boats are scarce.  15YO hulls are fetching over $5k.

So Robbie, if above is true, then yes for sure there is a market for generic (not plaqued) Lasers or ILCAs.  I don't care if its LPE or whomever building them.  With the price of ILCA's skyrocketing and the added costs of all the needed upgrades, the time is right for generic boats and generic sails.  Get back to the roots... accessibility!  It doesn't mater what the class elite wants.  What matters what the club fleets allow, and saving folks money so more can get in the game.

 

[RobbieB 1,174]

20 hours ago, Wess said:

So Robbie, if above is true, then yes for sure there is a market for generic (not plaqued) Lasers or ILCAs.  I don't care if its LPE or whomever building them.  With the price of ILCA's skyrocketing and the added costs of all the needed upgrades, the time is right for generic boats and generic sails.  Get back to the roots... accessibility!  It doesn't mater what the class elite wants.  What matters what the club fleets allow, and saving folks money so more can get in the game.

 

Outside of new/unplaqued LPE hulls I think you'll find "club level" or "grass roots" sailing in lasers is doing just that currently and due to the inability of LPE to supply class legal parts over the years it's not anything new.

Given the recent lawsuit final results I would be hard pressed to hand a check to LP directly or to a dealer for a new hull unless it was sitting right in front of me complete and ready for me to take away.

[WGWarburton 691]

12 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Outside of new/unplaqued LPE hulls I think you'll find "club level" or "grass roots" sailing in lasers is doing just that currently and due to the inability of LPE to supply class legal parts over the years it's not anything new.

Given the recent lawsuit final results I would be hard pressed to hand a check to LP directly or to a dealer for a new hull unless it was sitting right in front of me complete and ready for me to take away.

Final?

 5th February statement concludes: "It is our understanding that the licensee/defendants disagree with the recent Court ruling and will likely appeal its decision."

 They are also exhibiting at the (online) RYA dinghy show at the end of the month, so presumably have not thrown in the towel quite yet.

Cheers,

               W.

[Wess 2,429]

14 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

Final?

 5th February statement concludes: "It is our understanding that the licensee/defendants disagree with the recent Court ruling and will likely appeal its decision."

 They are also exhibiting at the (online) RYA dinghy show at the end of the month, so presumably have not thrown in the towel quite yet.

Cheers,

               W.

There you go with that inconvenient truth stuff yet again...

[tillerman 1,254]

45 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

Final?

 5th February statement concludes: "It is our understanding that the licensee/defendants disagree with the recent Court ruling and will likely appeal its decision."

 They are also exhibiting at the (online) RYA dinghy show at the end of the month, so presumably have not thrown in the towel quite yet.

Cheers,

               W.

February 2021 Statement from LaserPerformance

Statement by LaserPerformance 

The Court’s recent ruling reduced the jury’s award by more than half from $4,337157.49 to $2,056,736.33 with regard to an alleged trademark violation by defendant/licensee QMI.  Previously the Court had ruled that Mr. Kirby had no right or standing to sue the defendants QMI and LPE for royalties. As a result, this case only involved the use of his name on Laser sailboat plaques.  QMI argued and still contends that it had the authority to use the Kirby name and trademark on boats it sold pursuant to the Builders Agreement, which was never terminated, and in accordance with the  Laser construction manual approved by Mr. Kirby and ISAF. Therefore, there has been no trademark violation.    Both QMI and the other licensee/defendant LPE also argued and still contend that Mr. Kirby was not harmed or damaged by including his name on the required plaques placed on the Laser boats. They also argued that Mr. Kirby never asked to have his name removed from the Laser sailboat plaques nor did ISAF or ILCA. It is our understanding that the licensee/defendants disagree with the recent Court ruling and will likely appeal its decision. 
 

 

[RobbieB 1,174]

39 minutes ago, Wess said:

There you go with that inconvenient truth stuff yet again...

I guess nothing is ever "Final" in the courts until someone runs out of money to pay the lawyers to keep appealing.  Only the lawyers get rich right?  Anyway, I fall back on a previous statement.  "Who are you most comfortable hitching your wagon up to?"  If it's LP then go for it.  It's your money.  

[Bill5 1,595]

Did anybody actually expect the defendants  would say “Yup. You got us. We are guilty and will carve Bruce a check today. We apologize for any inconvenience caused”. ? If you think LPE’s response is a surprise, let me know what kind of rum you are drinking.It must be 150 proof.

[WCB 402]

14 hours ago, RobbieB said:

Outside of new/unplaqued LPE hulls I think you'll find "club level" or "grass roots" sailing in lasers is doing just that currently and due to the inability of LPE to supply class legal parts over the years it's not anything new.

Given the recent lawsuit final results I would be hard pressed to hand a check to LP directly or to a dealer for a new hull unless it was sitting right in front of me complete and ready for me to take away.

Agreed on that statement.  Only buy an LPE Laser if you don't intend to race it in ILCA events and if it's physically in front of you and able to go home with you.  We inquired about other LPE boats to buy for our program and were told to walk away from that boat and look at other options.  Issues were delivery, missing parts...etc.

[RobbieB 1,174]

9 hours ago, WCB said:

Agreed on that statement.  Only buy an LPE Laser if you don't intend to race it in ILCA events and if it's physically in front of you and able to go home with you.  We inquired about other LPE boats to buy for our program and were told to walk away from that boat and look at other options.  Issues were delivery, missing parts...etc.

Hmmm.  Pesky facts... Wess???