The Joker

US ranked #1 to best deal with a disease outbreak

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6 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Of course. Trump wants alot of things. Nobody has proposed a permanent payroll tax holiday. Do you read newspapers? 

He has and Kudlow said it was a great idea.  He’s Trump’s economic advisor. He’s all about advancing Trump’s agenda.  Do you watch Coronavirus briefings?
Do you even wash your hands?
 

Troubling....

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Just now, Fakenews said:

He has and Kudlow said it was a great idea.  He’s Trump’s economic advisor.  Do you watch Coronavirus briefings?
Do you even wash your hands?
 

Troubling....

Jesus no wonder our youth is so fucked up 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Did you just say that mike wofsey is engaged in “actual scientific discussion?” 
 

if so that’s the best thing I’ve read today!

 

posting from runway on msp-sea flight. With mask. 

For God’s sake why? ;)  Most people walking around are asymptomatic!  They’re only testing people who are showing symptoms!  ;););););)  Are you young? :lol:  

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-research-woman-with-no-symptoms-infects-five-people

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18 minutes ago, Amati said:

For God’s sake why? ;)  Most people walking around are asymptomatic!  They’re only testing people who are showing symptoms!  ;););););)  Are you young? :lol:  

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-research-woman-with-no-symptoms-infects-five-people

He's not young, he's a lawyer. And like many others here, he doesn't consider the asymptomatic as being infected, thus the asymptomatic don't calculate into the mortality.

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Back to the OP for a moment.

Another 3 cases in Victoria all from Australians coming in from different flights and locations in the USA.

If this is not spreading undetected in the US community, how can three (at least) people from another country be catching this from the 700 or so identified out of a population of 340 million?

Very worrying.

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14 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Like many others here, the asymptomatic literally don't count as having the disease, thus the asymptomatic don't even calculate into the mortality.

It's like saying "the cure for a certain flu is 20% effective, therefore the mortality rate of that flu is 20%."

To many here, that statement would make perfect sense, and wouldn't be a factual error.

So this goes back to pulmonologists holding the official keys to calling certain types of lung disease?  
 

Anyway, kind of an exquisite Art History-senses-honed-to a-fine-edge-to-notice- everything sort of read your surroundings.   The world of a 16th century time traveler.  
 

‘the sensory world of Italian Renaissance art’ by Quiviger, a mesmerizing read
 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005A3RITS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

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18 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Back to the OP for a moment.

Another 3 cases in Victoria all from Australians coming in from different flights and locations in the USA.

If this is not spreading undetected in the US community, how can three (at least) people from another country be catching this from the 700 or so identified out of a population of 340 million?

Very worrying.

They are medical refugees, seeking succor in your benevolent society’s legendary safety net .   Plan a is sufficient ethanol in my lung tissue to deactivate the virus, requiring a very high blood alcohol level.    It’s about time for another beer run.    If plan a fails I’m considering all options.   

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54 minutes ago, Amati said:

So this goes back to pulmonologists holding the official keys to calling certain types of lung disease?  
 

Anyway, kind of an exquisite Art History-senses-honed-to a-fine-edge-to-notice- everything sort of read your surroundings.   The world of a 16th century time traveler.  
 

‘the sensory world of Italian Renaissance art’ by Quiviger, a mesmerizing read
 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005A3RITS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Obviously, I disagree with any political or commercial agenda that removes treatment and diagnosis of  black lung. I also disagree with the idea that black lung is a cancer. How often is there metastases?

You pointed out how silly it is to try to protect oneself from infection where most of those infected are asymptomatic.

But as shown in this thread, many don't consider the vast majority of those who are asymptomatic as infected, thus the artificially high mortality rate.

 

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43 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

What the fuck are you wumao?

I'm discussing basic statistics, I'll let you know when the subject comes back 'round to politics so you can add your opinion.

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53 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Back to the OP for a moment.

Another 3 cases in Victoria all from Australians coming in from different flights and locations in the USA.

If this is not spreading undetected in the US community, how can three (at least) people from another country be catching this from the 700 or so identified out of a population of 340 million?

Very worrying.

It's only worrying to you because you are apparently mathematically illiterate.

I don't mean that as an insult, it's just the the reality that lots of people are mathematically illiterate. It's common, https://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/01/books/the-odds-are-you-re-innumerate.html

But you aren't illiterate, so you should consider studying the history tuberculosis sp you can correct yourself from the inspired bit of nonsense you wrote earlier.

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Then please explain the mathamatical probability of 4 Australians contracting CV19 from a pool of 340 million (-700) Americans.

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It's somewhat reassuring that some of the individual States are taking this seriously. Maybe the Trump/Pence comedy duo are surplus to requirements

New York state officials are sending National Guard troops to a special “containment area” centered in a suburban community that has a large cluster of confirmed coronavirus cases.

In response to the rapidly intensifying outbreak, the troops will be dispatched to New Rochelle, where schools are closing for two weeks because of the virus, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/national-guard-troops-being-sent-to-coronavirus-containment-area-in-nyc-suburb.html

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40 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Obviously, I disagree with any political nonsense that removes treatment and diagnosis of  black lung. I also disagree with the idea that black lung is a cancer. How often is there metastases?

You pointed out how silly it is to try to protect oneself from infection where most of those infected are asymptomatic.

But as shown in this thread, many don't consider the vast majority of those who are asymptomatic as infected, thus the artificially high mortality rate.

 

‘Asymptomatic’ is dependent on observation and a definition- just because most don’t agree they see symptoms doesn’t mean they aren’t there- a woman who was considered an asymptomatic Caronavirus ‘Typhoid Mary’ was subsequently shown to have had muscular pain, which does show itself by gait and quality of movement.  So not asymptomatic?  But pain can have many mothers, no?  (How to measure pain objectively?) To some extent medicine is Art, although like Art, imagination can get carried away.  (Or can it?). When does the subjective become objective?  Being able to intuitively avoid the infected becomes more important the less testing is available, but I can see where that is a guess, or at least based on experience, but still, avoidance is one of the few arrows in the quiver right now.  And if there were enough testing to know if you have had caronavirus, assuming you gain resistance that way, then there might be less paranoia, although the thing will probably be busy mutating.  And for those older that 70, it’s going to get lonely avoiding everybody.  How many Japanese die alone?
 

https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Charles-L-Harness-ebook/dp/B014Q0W4HG

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Back to the OP for a moment.

Another 3 cases in Victoria all from Australians coming in from different flights and locations in the USA.

If this is not spreading undetected in the US community, how can three (at least) people from another country be catching this from the 700 or so identified out of a population of 340 million?

Very worrying.

It’s everywhere here on the west coast. We’re all gonna die! Someday.

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

 So yes, you've made a clear factual error.

Don't  let that get in the way of a national panic......

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

It’s everywhere here on the west coast. We’re all gonna die! Someday.

And for this one, the more likely you are going to die, more likely you are going to die. That’s pitiless, no? 

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7 minutes ago, Amati said:

And for this one, the more likely you are going to die, more likely you are going to die. That’s pitiless, no? 

I’m very likely to die. Certainly likely in fact. Most positively.

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On 3/2/2020 at 4:33 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Thank good ness for one bit of good news

??

I saw the budget, dumbass. Isn't that what you elected him to do, slash Big Gubbermint and "wasteful spending" especially all that big-brain science-y stuff that makes you right-wing pinheads uncomfortable?

- DSK

I forgot that Galileo was funded by the Italian state and Newton the brits. Ohhh, because only governments have an interest in research.

I think the argument has to do with government being an organization which lacks any incentive to do well for other (such as making money for an exchange of value), is incredibly inefficient and often unjust and inequitable. For instance, look at electric vehicle and solar tax credits. Middle class Americans are to subsidize those fortunate enough to invest in these products? How about leaving an incentive to develop these technologies to be market competitive?

Of course pro-market arguments oftentimes disregard elements such as national security but that isn't the point being made by many pro government individuals.

I think once you understand that no one in government is accountable for losses and no one has an incentive to make things productive, you see the flaws of government with regards to organizational structure. Sure you can say politicians have an incentive (do well for the people and get re-elected) but in our two party system, we are often just voting against another person rather than for one.

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On 3/2/2020 at 4:33 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Thank good ness for one bit of good news

??

I saw the budget, dumbass. Isn't that what you elected him to do, slash Big Gubbermint and "wasteful spending" especially all that big-brain science-y stuff that makes you right-wing pinheads uncomfortable?

- DSK

I forgot that Galileo was funded by the Italian state and Newton the brits. Ohhh, because only governments have an interest in research.

I think the argument has to do with government being an organization which lacks any incentive to do well for other (such as making money for an exchange of value), is incredibly inefficient and often unjust and inequitable. For instance, look at electric vehicle and solar tax credits. Middle class Americans are to subsidize those fortunate enough to invest in these products? How about leaving an incentive to develop these technologies to be market competitive?

Pro-market arguments often disregard elements such as national security but that isn't the point being made by many pro government individuals.

I think once you understand that no one in government is accountable for losses and no one has an incentive to make things productive, you see the flaws of government with regards to organizational structure. Sure you can say politicians have an incentive (do well for the people and get re-elected) but in our two party system, we are often just voting against another a person rather than for one.

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24 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

It’s everywhere here on the west coast. We’re all gonna die! Someday.

Captain Tripps worked out in the end.  For some anyway....

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16 minutes ago, FishFood said:

I forgot that Galileo was funded by the Italian state and Newton the brits. Ohhh, because only governments have an interest in research.

I think the argument has to do with government being an organization which lacks any incentive to do well for other (such as making money for an exchange of value), is incredibly inefficient and often unjust and inequitable. For instance, look at electric vehicle and solar tax credits. Middle class Americans are to subsidize those fortunate enough to afford them.

Another argument: Everyone enjoys cleaner air?  On the backs of folks shelling out major bucks that tax credits barely scratch?
 

Honestly, I don’t expect that to change your views.  But we moved to a place with cleaner air, away from an inland valley choked with a brown haze when there wasn’t enough breeze.  I suspect voting with our feet is the only way to honestly deal with your mindset.

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5 minutes ago, Amati said:

Another argument: Everyone enjoys cleaner air?  On the backs of folks shelling out major bucks that tax credits barely scratch?
 

Honestly, I don’t expect that to change your views.  But we moved to a place with cleaner air, away from an inland valley choked with a brown haze when there wasn’t enough breeze.  I suspect voting with our feet is the only way to honestly deal with your mindset.

Did you even read what I said? Did I ever say that wasn't an issue? It's about the approach to solving it.

Tax credits that gave away free electric golf carts, and heavily discounted electric and solar products hardly scratched the price? I suspect you have no idea that tax credit had a value up to $7500? Yeah ok, just "a scratch" on your Tesla purchase. Oh wait, a Tesla charges itself with coal? Yeah, you guys are sure helping by redirecting your emissions!

(Please tell me again how the government gave scraps to those saving the world on their own backs.) 

Do you not get that the incentive to do that still exists and no one is arguing against clean air? My mindset that is government isn't the avenue toward achieving that and he proposals put forward appear to be economically devastating for little gain and even ecological loss. 

The proposals put up by politicians aren't going to solve the problem. Wind and solar are not ecologically friendly, economically infeasible, and nothing but sweet talk.

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26 minutes ago, FishFood said:

I think once you understand that no one in government is accountable for losses and no one has an incentive to make things productive, you see the flaws of government with regards to organizational structure. 

My nomination for the most stupid comment of the decade . . . such as it is. 

It is gummint, and only gummint, that makes your life, such as it is, worth living. 

How do you think we got railroads? Airlines?  

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27774747-how-the-post-office-created-america

Jeebus, I'm so tired of ignorant-assed libertarians

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4 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Ok, I'm no longer responding directly to Wofsey. His ego is involved; he thinks he knows best.

 

 

A few months ago I listened to an interview with Dunning of the Dunning-Krueger effect.  I realized that I had been committing a Dunning-Krueger on the Dunning-Krueger because I thought it was morons that mostly did it.  

But Dunning was really kind of sad and said that the biggest misunderstanding about their work is that it's about stupid people (I'm paraphrasing, of course). He said it's mostly smart people that are at risk for the D-K effect.   

He said that it's more about ARROGANCE than it is intelligence or education.

Mikey is smart, and even though he didn't know that a virus destroys cells, he's clearly SO SMART that he must be right and will confidently lecture us on epidemiology. 

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

My nomination for the most stupid comment of the decade . . . such as it is. 

It is gummint, and only gummint, that makes your life, such as it is, worth living. 

How do you think we got railroads? Airlines?  

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27774747-how-the-post-office-created-america

Jeebus, I'm so tired of ignorant-assed libertarians

Face-palm. Um enterprising Americans you twat. Vanderbilt? Heard of the guy? Oh those damn Wrights and their government grants, I forgot! Did I ever say government was useless and isn't able to create an environment conducive of productivity? 

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12 minutes ago, FishFood said:

Did you even read what I said? Did I ever say that wasn't an issue? It's about the approach to solving it.

Tax credits that gave away free electric golf carts, and heavily discounted electric and solar products hardly scratched the price? I suspect you have no idea that tax credit had a value up to $7500? Yeah ok, just "a scratch" on your Tesla purchase. Oh wait, a Tesla charges itself with coal? Yeah, you guys are sure helping by redirecting your emissions!

(Please tell me again how the government gave scraps to those saving the world on their own backs.) 

Do you not get that the incentive to do that still exists and no one is arguing against clean air? My mindset that is government isn't the avenue toward achieving that and he proposals put forward appear to be economically devastating for little gain and even ecological loss. 

The proposals put up by politicians aren't going to solve the problem. Wind and solar are not ecologically friendly, economically infeasible, and nothing but sweet talk.

You could move to the Redoubt.  You’d like it there!  Of course, most of your electricity would renewables, (Except for Montana, kind of) but I’m sure you could ignore that.  

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Just now, Amati said:

You could move to the Redoubt.  You’d like it there!  

Oh really, do they have individuals with brains who actually care to accurately address the content of a post? That would be so cool!

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12 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

My nomination for the most stupid comment of the decade . . . such as it is. 

It is gummint, and only gummint, that makes your life, such as it is, worth living. 

How do you think we got railroads? Airlines?  

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27774747-how-the-post-office-created-america

Jeebus, I'm so tired of ignorant-assed libertarians

He’s young, only had Econ 101, most Libertarians,  except of course Cantankerous Tom, grow out of it. 

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11 minutes ago, FishFood said:

! Did I ever say government was useless and isn't able to create an environment conducive of productivity? 

Yes, that is pretty much what you said - you pompous ignoramus. 

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11 minutes ago, FishFood said:

Oh really, do they have individuals with brains who actually care to accurately address the content of a post? That would be so cool!

Like I said above, moving away from you is the best way to honor your beliefs.  The Redoubt is filled with folks with brains who would precisely address your post.  The area is becoming a colony of right wing Californians, loving life, living their dreams.  
 

https://sandpointreader.com/american-redoubt-series-redoubt/

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

He’s young, only had Econ 101, most Libertarians,  except of course Cantankerous Tom, grow out of it. 

I'm gonna try to have him banned for life from visiting all those fantastic Cali state and national parks. 

He does not deserve them. One of my favorites. 

image.jpeg.fd98854b42361010c642d002b7bdb8dd.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Amati said:

I particularly liked ^_^ Kudlow when he said something to effect that he wasn’t talking about Medicare, yet.....  sometimes Kudlow rises above the shitshow level of Alexander Haig.  ;)

this just reminds me of all the mofo assholes who have fucked this wonderful place up

There is no one to trust.

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Could people please stop quoting FF. 

If you must interact.

It's not like he'll miss any post made in his direction, he's trawling trolling every thread in PA.

 

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1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

this just reminds me of all the mofo assholes who have fucked this wonderful place up

There is no one to trust.

You can trust so many of the Trump inner circle to fuck this wonderful place up.  

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Keep on fapping away you mindless dummies. I'll be here when you want to address what I said, till then, keep acting like children. It suits y'all well :)

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12 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

It seems FF wants to be a 666

He's not good enough for a 66 in any direction. Mildly amusing during the intro, but the main feature is predictable and boring. No tits, either. 

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6 hours ago, mikewof said:

spit take ...

There are no words. Please read a book Meli.

That would be a first.

FKT

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56 minutes ago, FishFood said:

 

If we don't want to address what you said, will you fuck off ...Promise?

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Yes, that is pretty much what you said - you pompous ignoramus. 

Uhh, nope. Try again! It's really foolish to call someone ignorant when you conflate such simple things. 

I said no one, as in no individual within the organization, has an incentive to make things productive (within the organization; I have to include footnotes for your brain to actually understand what I'm saying, lol). That makes for flaws with regard to organizational structure. There are flawed incentive structures within a government (think pay grades, etc.), no one has any responsibility for results, etc. In a private company, someone stands to lose a dollar or make one. And therefore an incentive is created as well as a disincentive, neither exist in the public sector. Greed is neither good nor bad. It's the fucking reality of every human though and you're likely in a position where you feel comfortable thinking otherwise (you're a comfy human who is disillusioned by your lack of real primal circumstance). 

This is separate than saying government can't provide an environment that allows for it's citizens to create a prosperous and productive private sector. They can do this by helping to provide national security, infrastructure, preserving property rights, and more. There is a reason government control of industry tends to fail.

Compare that with you believed I said.

You people are unbelievable lol. 

1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

Joker has capitalizations issues. 

… interesting … 

StRaW mAn

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Hey @AJ Oliver, can you tell me who Galilieo, Newton, the Wrights and Edison were funded by? Or are you going to ignore that. 

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2 hours ago, Amati said:

‘Asymptomatic’ is dependent on observation and a definition- just because most don’t agree they see symptoms doesn’t mean they aren’t there- a woman who was considered an asymptomatic Caronavirus ‘Typhoid Mary’ was subsequently shown to have had muscular pain, which does show itself by gait and quality of movement.  So not asymptomatic?  But pain can have many mothers, no?  (How to measure pain objectively?) To some extent medicine is Art, although like Art, imagination can get carried away.  (Or can it?). When does the subjective become objective?  Being able to intuitively avoid the infected becomes more important the less testing is available, but I can see where that is a guess, or at least based on experience, but still, avoidance is one of the few arrows in the quiver right now.  And if there were enough testing to know if you have had caronavirus, assuming you gain resistance that way, then there might be less paranoia, although the thing will probably be busy mutating.  And for those older that 70, it’s going to get lonely avoiding everybody.  How many Japanese die alone?
 

https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Charles-L-Harness-ebook/dp/B014Q0W4HG

For the purpose of the morality mortality rate, asymptotic would mean anyone who doesn't feel sufficiently miserable to seek medical help. Because those people aren't typically diagnosed with the virus.

How many is that? Without a study, we can only guess. But the virus seems to be virulent from the Chinese results, so based on the confirmed cases, like SARS, I'm going to guess that it's around 90% sufficiently asymptomatic that it isn't diagnosed.

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2 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

A few months ago I listened to an interview with Dunning of the Dunning-Krueger effect.  I realized that I had been committing a Dunning-Krueger on the Dunning-Krueger because I thought it was morons that mostly did it.  

But Dunning was really kind of sad and said that the biggest misunderstanding about their work is that it's about stupid people (I'm paraphrasing, of course). He said it's mostly smart people that are at risk for the D-K effect.   

He said that it's more about ARROGANCE than it is intelligence or education.

Mikey is smart, and even though he didn't know that a virus destroys cells, he's clearly SO SMART that he must be right and will confidently lecture us on epidemiology. 

Once again, any typical virus is destroying so few cells that the host doesn't even know they are infected.

You can keep looking for ways to justify your take on this, but it's not even really about medicine, it's about statistics.

And the statistics suggest that we're looking at an infection that isn't particularly dangerous. We're at 30 total deaths in the USA from a virus that has been clearly established in China to be highly infectious and virulent.

If you don't like my lecture, you should thus endeavor to use your brain and not be such a dumb-ass.

Some people respect you here, and when they read your dumb-assedness, it makes them a little bit more of a dumb-ass too, because they don't have sufficient knowledge on certain subjects to differentiate reality from dumb-assedness.

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On 3/9/2020 at 2:40 PM, Fakenews said:

Apparently better than Bama and we sucked less vs LSU than did  UGA and Clemson. It’s the only program to go to back to back New Years Six bowls in the first two years of a new head coach.   You don’t know this because of all the things you don’t know college football is near the top (along with physics).

SAD!

 

 

We?  What role do you play in the program?

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

We?  What role do you play in the program?

12th man

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WORLD NEWS 03/11/2020 12:05AM EDT

Doctor In Italy's Coronavirus Epicenter Tells Chilling Details In Plea For Action

“So be patient, you can’t go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate," Dr. Daniele Macchini wrote.

Dr. Daniele Macchini, a doctor treating COVID-19 patients in a hospital located in the epicenter of Italy’s coronavirus outbreak, has detailed the distressing conditions he’s witnessing and his deep concern about the spread of the virus.

In a now-viral Facebook post, Macchini sought to convey the situation in Bergamo, a city near Milan in northern Italy. He likened the outbreak to a “war” and a “tsunami that has overwhelmed us.” The 16 million people in the northern region of the country were the first to be locked down on Sunday before a nationwide lockdown on the country’s 60 million residents was enforced Tuesday in an effort to slow the spread. 

Dr. Silvia Stringhini, an epidemiologist and researcher at Geneva University’s Institute of Global Health, translated Macchini’s post from Italian to English in a Twitter thread, saying that she wanted to “fight this sense of security outside of the epicenters, as if nothing was going to happen ‘here.’”

“The media in Europe are reassuring, politicians are reassuring, while there’s little to be reassured of,” the epidemiologist wrote.

“After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible,” Macchini’s translated post begins.

“I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder,” the post continues.

Macchini recounted the past week, as the emptied-out hospital wards were met with an onslaught of COVID-19 patients. “The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night,” he said, via the translation.

There were more than 9,500 COVID-19 cases confirmed and 631 dead from the virus in Italy on Tuesday, according to the country’s Department of Civil Protection agency website.

Macchini also described the struggle for health care providers, including the exhaustion and emotional pain suffered by doctors and nurses as they lost lives.

“There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them,” he said.

He concluded by asking that people consider the impact of their actions on others. While 80% of those infected will not need hospital care and many may feel well enough to go about their normal lives, spreading the virus may lead to a severe or fatal case in older individuals or those with preexisting medical conditions.

“So be patient, you can’t go to the theatre, museums or the gym,” Macchini wrote. “Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.”

Calling on readers to spread the word and do their part in securing the safety of more vulnerable people, Macchini finished his post by criticizing what he described as a “war on panic” ― apparently alluding to advice from authorities and politicians understating the severity of the outbreak ― by pondering if it meant people were not taking the situation seriously enough.

“Is panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?” he wrote.

Authorities in the U.S. and abroad advise anyone who is infected or has been in contact with an infected individual to self-quarantine for 14 days.

Many schools and universities have closed, and numerous events, including international music festivals, major sporting events, political rallies and large public gatherings in general have been canceled or even banned over coronavirus concerns.

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1 minute ago, phillysailor said:

WORLD NEWS 03/11/2020 12:05AM EDT

Doctor In Italy's Coronavirus Epicenter Tells Chilling Details In Plea For Action

“So be patient, you can’t go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate," Dr. Daniele Macchini wrote.

Dr. Daniele Macchini, a doctor treating COVID-19 patients in a hospital located in the epicenter of Italy’s coronavirus outbreak, has detailed the distressing conditions he’s witnessing and his deep concern about the spread of the virus.

In a now-viral Facebook post, Macchini sought to convey the situation in Bergamo, a city near Milan in northern Italy. He likened the outbreak to a “war” and a “tsunami that has overwhelmed us.” The 16 million people in the northern region of the country were the first to be locked down on Sunday before a nationwide lockdown on the country’s 60 million residents was enforced Tuesday in an effort to slow the spread. 

Dr. Silvia Stringhini, an epidemiologist and researcher at Geneva University’s Institute of Global Health, translated Macchini’s post from Italian to English in a Twitter thread, saying that she wanted to “fight this sense of security outside of the epicenters, as if nothing was going to happen ‘here.’”

“The media in Europe are reassuring, politicians are reassuring, while there’s little to be reassured of,” the epidemiologist wrote.

“After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible,” Macchini’s translated post begins.

“I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder,” the post continues.

Macchini recounted the past week, as the emptied-out hospital wards were met with an onslaught of COVID-19 patients. “The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night,” he said, via the translation.

There were more than 9,500 COVID-19 cases confirmed and 631 dead from the virus in Italy on Tuesday, according to the country’s Department of Civil Protection agency website.

Macchini also described the struggle for health care providers, including the exhaustion and emotional pain suffered by doctors and nurses as they lost lives.

“There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them,” he said.

He concluded by asking that people consider the impact of their actions on others. While 80% of those infected will not need hospital care and many may feel well enough to go about their normal lives, spreading the virus may lead to a severe or fatal case in older individuals or those with preexisting medical conditions.

“So be patient, you can’t go to the theatre, museums or the gym,” Macchini wrote. “Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.”

Calling on readers to spread the word and do their part in securing the safety of more vulnerable people, Macchini finished his post by criticizing what he described as a “war on panic” ― apparently alluding to advice from authorities and politicians understating the severity of the outbreak ― by pondering if it meant people were not taking the situation seriously enough.

“Is panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?” he wrote.

Authorities in the U.S. and abroad advise anyone who is infected or has been in contact with an infected individual to self-quarantine for 14 days.

Many schools and universities have closed, and numerous events, including international music festivals, major sporting events, political rallies and large public gatherings in general have been canceled or even banned over coronavirus concerns.

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Not sure why you feel the need to share that.  We have heard from one of our own how the Italian government's response was "idiotic".

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

Fanboy.

Yup.  That’s what every CFB fan who didn’t play the game is. 

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2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

We?  What role do you play in the program?

Bull Gator was one of the architects of their national championship runs in both football and basketball. He advised and guided both the coaching staff and the players.

I think it's fair to say that without Bull Gator, University of Florida could not have managed so much success.

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26 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Bull Gator was one of the architects of their national championship runs in both football and basketball. He advised and guided both the coaching staff and the players.

I think it's fair to say that without Bull Gator, University of Florida could not have managed so much success.

I find such an obsession to be creepy.

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2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

We?  What role do you play in the program?

Might be one of those Tonto and Lone Ranger things

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11 hours ago, FishFood said:

I forgot that Galileo was funded by the Italian state and Newton the brits. Ohhh, because only governments have an interest in research.

 

Galileo was funded by the Medici's who were the financial and political powers of Florence.

Isaac Newton had a nice job at Cambridge University.

Cam Newton has sponsorships from Gatorade, Beats and a couple of others.

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Does anyone know how many Republicans have self-quarantined?  And how many of those followed Trump's advice?

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28 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Galileo was funded by the Medici's who were the financial and political powers of Florence.

Isaac Newton had a nice job e at Cambridge University.

Cam Newton has sponsorships from Gatorade, Beats and a couple of others.

Bet Wayne Newton is still big in Vegas with his cousin, Fig.

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3 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Bet Wayne Newton is still big in Vegas with his cousin, Fig.

Fig is just a corporate stooge for Nabisco.

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Galileo was funded by the Medici's who were the financial and political powers of Florence.

Isaac Newton had a nice job at Cambridge University.

Cam Newton has sponsorships from Gatorade, Beats and a couple of others.

That's not possible, only government makes progress happen. Just ask @AJ Oliver!

 

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52 minutes ago, FishFood said:

That's not possible, only government makes progress happen. Just ask @AJ Oliver!

Damn, I figured you might be smart enough to go play outside. But no. 

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3 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I find such an obsession to be creepy.

He's doing a good job as Fakenews in my opinion, he's no longer the shrill, angry guy that he so many of us were back then. He had the skill of annoyance down to a fine art form back in the days.

I feel that he's more Fakenews than Bull Gator. He's no more creepy than a lot of us, myself included.

 

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17 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Honestly?   

No.  I think we're in the age of fear.  We're still taking our shoes off at airports, for God sakes.  Fearful people are people that can be lead and controlled.  We don't have much in the way of frontier anymore.  This is it.  So we come up with new things to keep ourselves occupied. 

Shit, you're right. I never really made that connection, but we're letting fear do the same thing to us that it did after 9/11. Instead of being afraid of box-cutters, now it's a virus. And just as we let the terrorists win because of fear, now we're letting a little microbe win because of fear.

Colleges are being shut down. Businesses are folding, we're pulling back into our cocoons because we're so afraid of something we don't understand.

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Just now, phillysailor said:

DD-COMP-CORONAVIRUS-GRAPH.jpg?_gl=1*1rh8

 

The question rapidly becomes: when do we go on lockdown? Before, or after it’s too late?

That graph should reassure you that there is little danger, but it doesn't.

Why doesn't it? Because you are apparently mathematically-illiterate too. Don't be ashamed, mathematical illiteracy is rampant.

How would you describe the shape of that graph? Parametric? Logarithmic? Linear? Exponential? Asymptotic?

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This is not helpful. Every fucking move by this administration is political. The little people don’t need to know.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive-idUSKBN20Y2LM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials. 

The officials said that dozens of classified discussions about such topics as the scope of infections, quarantines and travel restrictions have been held since mid-January in a high-security meeting room at the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), a key player in the fight against the coronavirus.

Staffers without security clearances, including government experts, were excluded from the interagency meetings, which included video conference calls, the sources said. 

“We had some very critical people who did not have security clearances who could not go,” one official said. “These should not be classified meetings. It was unnecessary.” 

The sources said the National Security Council (NSC), which advises the president on security issues, ordered the classification.”This came directly from the White House,” one official said.

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2 minutes ago, Sean said:

This is not helpful. Every fucking move by this administration is political. The little people don’t need to know.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive-idUSKBN20Y2LM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials. 

The officials said that dozens of classified discussions about such topics as the scope of infections, quarantines and travel restrictions have been held since mid-January in a high-security meeting room at the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), a key player in the fight against the coronavirus.

Staffers without security clearances, including government experts, were excluded from the interagency meetings, which included video conference calls, the sources said. 

“We had some very critical people who did not have security clearances who could not go,” one official said. “These should not be classified meetings. It was unnecessary.” 

The sources said the National Security Council (NSC), which advises the president on security issues, ordered the classification.”This came directly from the White House,” one official said.

I believe the guy who started a thread about how it would be important for the government to inform the public about something like this will support this new position.

Only because of the party the President represents.

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10 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

DD-COMP-CORONAVIRUS-GRAPH.jpg?_gl=1*1rh8

 

The question rapidly becomes: when do we go on lockdown? Before, or after it’s too late?

With this admin, you know the answer.

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7 minutes ago, Sean said:

This is not helpful. Every fucking move by this administration is political. The little people don’t need to know.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive-idUSKBN20Y2LM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials. 

The officials said that dozens of classified discussions about such topics as the scope of infections, quarantines and travel restrictions have been held since mid-January in a high-security meeting room at the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), a key player in the fight against the coronavirus.

Staffers without security clearances, including government experts, were excluded from the interagency meetings, which included video conference calls, the sources said. 

“We had some very critical people who did not have security clearances who could not go,” one official said. “These should not be classified meetings. It was unnecessary.” 

The sources said the National Security Council (NSC), which advises the president on security issues, ordered the classification.”This came directly from the White House,” one official said.

No news, no worries!

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Just now, Pun Slinger said:

Necessary when these meeting include lefty political hacks that only care about leaking fake news. 

The # 1 problem so far has been too many voices. 

 

You're wrong about this - the messaging problem has been that the message content has been provided by almost everyone EXCEPT the people who are the real authorities, and has been wrongly flavored not to inform and protect the populace, but, to aggrandize and elevate the President. 

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2 minutes ago, Pun Slinger said:

Necessary when these meeting include lefty political hacks that only care about leaking fake news. 

The # 1 problem so far has been too many voices. 

 

Yes, we know you like being ignorant.

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You're wrong about this - the messaging problem has been that the message content has been provided by almost everyone EXCEPT the people who are the real authorities, and has been wrongly flavored not to inform and protect the populace, but, to aggrandize and elevate the President. 

 

Who are the real authorities in this topic?

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2 minutes ago, Pun Slinger said:

I think that was my point. Are you saying the the media, democrat politicians and such are angels in this mess? 

Did I say that?  No.   That doesn't excuse the FACT that the President and his administration have the responsibility to manage this situation, and that it appears that instead of seeing to the health and well-being of the public, that they're more interested in how the messaging makes the administration look.    I don't want to say anything more about it, because that's a distraction from where are focus SHOULD be - containing and managing the viral outbreak. 

The President shouldn't be doing anything more than to introduce the chairpersons that were pre-designated to coordinate the response to such an event, and then after their brief, explaining what's being done to implement their plans IAW the situational priorities.  Anything more or less is an inappropriate distraction. 

 

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5 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

Who are the real authorities in this topic?

CDC, WHO, logistics coordinators - the people who know why things need to be done and how to make those things happen.   

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12 minutes ago, Pun Slinger said:

Yeah your are right . we need dozens of politically motivated hacks clearing it all up for the public. 

Nope, it would be nice if the Feds were to say something, however.

"No news, no worries!"  likely HappyJack quote.

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9 minutes ago, Pun Slinger said:

You are right and they have struggled to catch up to this crisis. Unless you are arguing a Biden, or Sanders or Waren or Obama would have aced the same test then maybe like me you can see the missteps in context and also acknowledge that some decisions were bold and good. 

Some on the forum, for years, have been arguing that the country was unprepared. That argument received a lot of ridicule. Maybe the Sol sycophants on here ought to admit they were wrong and own up to their contribution to an attitude it won't happen here. 

We agree on the last part - and I also agree with those who are lambasting the administration for disbanding the group that was established to manage that preparedness. 

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12 minutes ago, Pun Slinger said:

Would not matter what I or Happy Jack say your response will be uncreative, invariant and stupidly partisan. 

What in my statement was Partisan?

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23 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

CDC, WHO, logistics coordinators - the people who know why things need to be done and how to make those things happen.   

 

22 minutes ago, Pun Slinger said:

How about this?An appointed spokesperson who each morning collects the written questions of reporters and in the afternoon return the written responses from the relevant agencies. 

Or maybe you prefer, in a crisis, the traditional NEWS media method of trying to push the government persons into an off the cuff gaff that can lead the sound bite media that evening?

I like both of these ideas.

But I have a question for both of you ... what happens when none of these individual groups has sufficient data to create a useful picture of what's happening, and the law prevents them from sharing data with each other?

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I like both of these ideas.

But I have a question for both of you ... what happens when none of these individual groups has sufficient data to create a useful picture of what's happening, and the law prevents them from sharing data with each other?

To the 1st?  You document your assumptions, and make projections based upon those assumptions, updating those projections as more solid data comes in, establishing action thresholds/criteria that are programmed to adjust as well.   

To the 2nd?  I'd have to ask what laws are in place that would prevent such information sharing?  The only thing that comes to mind is HIPAA - and I don't think that that prevents anything except possible the activity/association tracking necessary to identify individuals for testing.  My focus on HIPAA was updating Medicaid software to be compliant w/HIPAA reporting/privacy requirements, so I don't know enough to understand whether or not there are any "public good" exceptions. 

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36 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Did I say that?  No.   That doesn't excuse the FACT that the President and his administration have the responsibility to manage this situation, and that it appears that instead of seeing to the health and well-being of the public, that they're more interested in how the messaging makes the administration look.    I don't want to say anything more about it, because that's a distraction from where are focus SHOULD be - containing and managing the viral outbreak. 

The President shouldn't be doing anything more than to introduce the chairpersons that were pre-designated to coordinate the response to such an event, and then after their brief, explaining what's being done to implement their plans IAW the situational priorities.  Anything more or less is an inappropriate distraction. 

 

He shit canned those people in 2018...  They have been playing catchup since Jan....  

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

To the 2nd?  I'd have to ask what laws are in place that would prevent such information sharing?  The only thing that comes to mind is HIPAA - and I don't think that that prevents anything except possible the activity/association tracking necessary to identify individuals for testing.  My focus on HIPAA was updating Medicaid software to be compliant w/HIPAA reporting/privacy requirements, so I don't know enough to understand whether or not there are any "public good" exceptions. 

Was thinking the same thing...  To whom does the CDC Report?  Not supposed to be political right?? 

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1 minute ago, Pun Slinger said:

Only they did not do that. That occured because previously approved funding ran out. It had nothing as far as I can find to do with Trump. After all Congress writes the budget NOT Trump. 

According to Snopes

 in 2018, news reports circulated about an 80% reduction in the CDC’s program that worked in various countries to fight epidemics. That was the result of the anticipated depletion of previously allotted funding. 

Also the reports that Trump fired the CDC team responsible for managing epidemic response is factually false. He did terminate a couple White house appointees from the previous administration. Maybe you want to wonder if the deep state tactics of the left had anything to do with his mistrust of such hold overs.  As for the CDC He has not fired anyone or cut any funding although he had proposed funding and mission changes that would specifically refocus from chronic disease to infectious deseases and public health issues.  Also from Snopes.

As The Washington Post explains, those funding cuts target the CDC’s chronic disease activities:The budget request would trim funding for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention by almost 16 percent. HHS officials said they want the CDC to focus on its core mission of preventing and controlling infectious diseases and on other emerging public health issues, such as opioid abuse.

Why was the funding not renewed?   What was the impact of that funding shortfall?  What administration oversaw that funding activity?  I don't intend to quibble about the meaning of "IS" - the outcome was that the CDC team that was supposed to be in front of this wasn't there TO be in front of it, and Trump himself said that it was his intent, that he could "hire back the people we need when we need them, why would I pay to keep them around when we don't"?  ( paraphrasing - but, you'll remember the context, I'm sure). 

 

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