Hendo30

Runner Block Replacements

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Have a newly acquired Henderson 30. Going through a full refit. Wondering about the running backstay blocks. Boat came with Harken 57mm high load blocks. This style of block has rope guides on both sides that help contain the line and rotate the block into the proper position, thus making them rather large. I’ve seen other boats remove these and use anti-friction rings. Several problems come to mind With the rings:

1: Small turning radius

2: Rope memory always about the same on the ring. 

But, they are lightweight, won’t bang your head, and don’t do much damage if they happen to hit the back of your newly painted carbon fiber mast. 

Anyone have any thoughts? 

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Do you need flying blocks at all? Would double the load be too great? Or, some boats use padded runner blocks.

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A slightly larger diameter friction ring should offset the radius decrease but I would say the rings are definitely the way to go. Don’t forget the big cost saving as well.

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Buying new friction rings when you already have Harken blocks is not going to be a cost savings.   

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10 hours ago, Hendo30 said:

Have a newly acquired Henderson 30. Going through a full refit. Wondering about the running backstay blocks. Boat came with Harken 57mm high load blocks. This style of block has rope guides on both sides that help contain the line and rotate the block into the proper position, thus making them rather large. I’ve seen other boats remove these and use anti-friction rings. Several problems come to mind With the rings:

1: Small turning radius

2: Rope memory always about the same on the ring. 

But, they are lightweight, won’t bang your head, and don’t do much damage if they happen to hit the back of your newly painted carbon fiber mast. 

Anyone have any thoughts? 

A 57mm block really isn't that large, but if you want to downsize and keep a similar load rating you may want to look at the Harken 45 mm Element block.

I am not sure what load numbers the runners on a Henderson 30 would be producing, so I can only speak from my own experience with our cascading backstay on an S2 9.1. I set it up with two cascades going through low friction rings, and then the adjuster is two of the 45mm Element Double blocks. I choose them because I wanted a small high load block for adjustment, and for all the same reasons you stated above (turning radius and rope memory) i didn't want to use rings for this application. If you're worried about impact with your mast, just put some aesthetically shaped kevlar tape on the mast, for the same reason you would wrap your carbon fiber spinnaker pole with kevlar tape where it chafes against the headstay foil. Kevlar is the best laminate for impact resistance :) When the tape starts getting mashed up, pull it off, clean it up, and replace it. Meanwhile the mast finish is well protected.

Harken 57mm Single Black Magic SWL: 2500 lb BL: 5000 lb $199.15 
Harken 45mm Single Element SWL: 1543 lb BL: 3086 lb $35.99
Harken 60mm Single Element SWL: 2425 lb BL: 4850 lb $49.99

Notice a trend ($$$) comparing the Element Blocks to the Black Magic?

Do a good load analysis on the runner. Make sure that whatever block you put there is rated for that load and don't forget that you need to also look at shock loading for anything attached to the mast!

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You will lose a lot purchase power with rings vs. blocks. The other issue is the rings add a lot of drag.

Good for release, not so good for pulling on.

I find a combination of hi-load blocks and rings work best.

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The Running Backs on the Hendo are a huge Gas Pedal!  Having them the lowest friction makes them much easier and faster to adjust.  Stay with the Harken 57 blocks, and put padded covers over them!  

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11 hours ago, Jubblies said:

A 57mm block really isn't that large, but if you want to downsize and keep a similar load rating you may want to look at the Harken 45 mm Element block.

I am not sure what load numbers the runners on a Henderson 30 would be producing, so I can only speak from my own experience with our cascading backstay on an S2 9.1. I set it up with two cascades going through low friction rings, and then the adjuster is two of the 45mm Element Double blocks. I choose them because I wanted a small high load block for adjustment, and for all the same reasons you stated above (turning radius and rope memory) i didn't want to use rings for this application. If you're worried about impact with your mast, just put some aesthetically shaped kevlar tape on the mast, for the same reason you would wrap your carbon fiber spinnaker pole with kevlar tape where it chafes against the headstay foil. Kevlar is the best laminate for impact resistance :) When the tape starts getting mashed up, pull it off, clean it up, and replace it. Meanwhile the mast finish is well protected.

Harken 57mm Single Black Magic SWL: 2500 lb BL: 5000 lb $199.15 
Harken 45mm Single Element SWL: 1543 lb BL: 3086 lb $35.99
Harken 60mm Single Element SWL: 2425 lb BL: 4850 lb $49.99

Notice a trend ($$$) comparing the Element Blocks to the Black Magic?

Do a good load analysis on the runner. Make sure that whatever block you put there is rated for that load and don't forget that you need to also look at shock loading for anything attached to the mast!

Yeah, good idea with the element blocks. Those things have a large breaking strength rating since they have no ball bearings. I’ve used those on another boat and really liked the design, and the price! 

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8 hours ago, silent bob said:

The Running Backs on the Hendo are a huge Gas Pedal!  Having them the lowest friction makes them much easier and faster to adjust.  Stay with the Harken 57 blocks, and put padded covers over them!  

Thanks Silent Bob! They are the gas pedal for sure! Might just try them, maybe pad them, and see how it goes. They are great looking blocks, and do work well under load. If you think about it a 2-1/4” radius versus 7/8” is a huge difference in turning radius. 

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8 hours ago, Irrational 14 said:

You will lose a lot purchase power with rings vs. blocks. The other issue is the rings add a lot of drag.

Good for release, not so good for pulling on.

I find a combination of hi-load blocks and rings work best.

Good points. Agree. 

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13 hours ago, PaulK said:

Buying new friction rings when you already have Harken blocks is not going to be a cost savings.   

but you get extra friction for extra costs.

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They make runner socks or padded covers specifically for this application.  Why reinvent the wheel...

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On 3/3/2020 at 10:11 AM, Jubblies said:

A 57mm block really isn't that large, but if you want to downsize and keep a similar load rating you may want to look at the Harken 45 mm Element block.

I am not sure what load numbers the runners on a Henderson 30 would be producing, so I can only speak from my own experience with our cascading backstay on an S2 9.1. I set it up with two cascades going through low friction rings, and then the adjuster is two of the 45mm Element Double blocks. I choose them because I wanted a small high load block for adjustment, and for all the same reasons you stated above (turning radius and rope memory) i didn't want to use rings for this application. If you're worried about impact with your mast, just put some aesthetically shaped kevlar tape on the mast, for the same reason you would wrap your carbon fiber spinnaker pole with kevlar tape where it chafes against the headstay foil. Kevlar is the best laminate for impact resistance :) When the tape starts getting mashed up, pull it off, clean it up, and replace it. Meanwhile the mast finish is well protected.

Harken 57mm Single Black Magic SWL: 2500 lb BL: 5000 lb $199.15 
Harken 45mm Single Element SWL: 1543 lb BL: 3086 lb $35.99
Harken 60mm Single Element SWL: 2425 lb BL: 4850 lb $49.99

Notice a trend ($$$) comparing the Element Blocks to the Black Magic?

Do a good load analysis on the runner. Make sure that whatever block you put there is rated for that load and don't forget that you need to also look at shock loading for anything attached to the mast!

Could you please show a picture of your cascading backstay on the 9.1

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3 hours ago, sailingbeme said:

Could you please show a picture of your cascading backstay on the 9.1

66277219_738644873235494_4257199770985411003_n.jpg?_nc_ht=instagram.ftol2-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=bFSrpZrPPucAX-EeRoi&oh=e608ffd1d6c3b408ef92e68d961ec1ec&oe=5E90136867415653_494676501280705_8052421900478449278_n.jpg?_nc_ht=instagram.ftol2-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=0YmE5Elm5kwAX85Z1kO&oh=e4f0b5ca4cad3705cb0b8bd058a2b41f&oe=5E8EDE25



I think you can mostly see it in this picture.

  1. The primary backstay is NER 1/4" STS that terminates to a low friction ring
  2. The bridle toggles are from Colligo Marine.
  3. The bridle itself is 1/4 inch Amsteel.
  4. The bridle terminates to a ring.
  5. The port side of the bridle is spliced to the toggle.
  6. Then there are two cascades on the port side, one is spliced around the toggle  and the spliced through the toggle.
  7. The last cascade connects to a 45mm Element double
  8. the adjuster is a 45 mm single on the starboard side and two 45 mm singles on the port.
  9. The adjuster is 8mm poly double braid.
  10. You can see the adjuster crosses under the tiller. I plan on diverting that through a cheek block this spring.
  11. Both ends of the adjuster lead forward through cheek blocks up to the cam.

OHH, and don't forget to put 6-8 ft of chafe protection at the top of the primary backstay where the top batten rails across it.

Probably overkill, but no one complained all summer about not having enough purchase.

If someone smarter than me would like to calculate the total purchase on this, I would be intrigued!

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