fsiljelof

Single line reefing?

Recommended Posts

I’m abandoning my bult rope main and am fitting a mainsail track (harken with cb cars) as I’m getting a new mainsail.

We race double handed only (my wife and I) with a 50m2 mainsail offshore and inshore races and are considering a better option for reefing.

Sail is North 3di carbon mix ... 

What are your thoughts on reefing and specifically...

 

a) Single line reefing, is it the best option for shorthanded racing and if so what is the best set up?

 

b) Reef hooks or locks for the boom, solutions like the Karver hook or other locks similar to halyard locks. Is it a good idea and if so which one should I get? I understand it could save the sail from shafe as well as simplify reefing?

 

c) is there a way to combine and do single line reefing with hooks for the reefed clew?

 

I’d greatly appreciate any ideas that could help us tame our main in a big breeze :-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single line reefing has the very annoying and unhelpful habit of tightening the leech as you reef the luff, exactly when you want the leech as open as possible.  It is not at all easier short-handed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two lies reefing is only one more than one.   I think it works better.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, atyourcervix said:

so ease the vang. 

 Usually done with traditional slab reefing too.  Single line is not as effective as regular slab reefing.  I've done a lot of both.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, r.finn said:

Single line reefing has the very annoying and unhelpful habit of tightening the leech as you reef the luff, exactly when you want the leech as open as possible.  It is not at all easier short-handed.

i usually end up with the luff really tight and the leech/clew still a bit too loose...

the problem is there is just too much friction and if the both ends don't go to the right position at exactly the same time, it's really hard to continue taking up one end, because the other binds up

yes..,i am easing the vang..., it's just not a great setup - probably okay in enclosed waters on a daysailer where you won't use it much, but not for general use where it really has to work

i am going to try a stripped reefing line this year..,and probably low-friction rings instead of the clew/tack cringles - i think it will make a big difference

my boat is a daysailer, so i don't worry too much about the lack of a hook - it hasn't been a problem  - i think offshore you need some sort of a hook or strap at the tack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, vikram said:

https://vimeo.com/246331669

2 minute video worth a look.

shows the advantage of low friction rings - he has them at both the clew and the tack,  and a smaller diameter line - which is what i am going to change to. i am pretty sure mine will work as well as his does once i make the changes.

without them, it sometimes won't work the way his does.., because at the stage where his luff is tight.., but the clew isn't, and he continues to trim the reef line.., there is just too much friction... mine is not terrible - just not ideal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, us7070 said:

 

yes..,i am easing the vang..., it's just not a great setup - probably okay in enclosed waters on a daysailer where you won't use it much, but not for general use where it really has to work.

my boat is a daysailer, so i don't worry too much about the lack of a hook - it hasn't been a problem  - i think offshore you need some sort of a hook or strap at the tack

Agreed.  I think it's fine if you're not really going offshore and can setup your reef before heading out.  However, there's a reason you don't see single line reefing used by any professional offshore teams, and it's not because they like to make things more difficult for themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sailed offshore a fair bit on a large Swan with single line reefing.., it's always a hassle, and never looks really good

two-line reefing would be much better on a boat like that - loads are huge

and - with electric winches, the temptation is to try just a little more trim, because it's easy - not good...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, us7070 said:

shows the advantage of low friction rings - he has them at both the clew and the tack,  and a smaller diameter line - which is what i am going to change to. i am pretty sure mine will work as well as his does once i make the changes.

without them, it sometimes won't work the way his does.., because at the stage where his luff is tight.., but the clew isn't, and he continues to trim the reef line.., there is just too much friction... mine is not terrible - just not ideal.

I don’t think I’d be reefing in 8 knots of breeze and flat water, with no headsail up and the motor running!  Let’s see him do this in 30 knots, with a sea state to match!  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me and my sailing...single line reefing makes zero sense. Great idea if someone could address the fatal flaws. My luff tension is best at maybe a hundred pounds or so. The cunningham is a simple little tackle, for example. However the clew load must be many hundreds of pounds: All a winch, 2:1 tackle, and a big guy can do.

The entire premise of single line reefing is stupid.

My first reef goes in at 10 knots when singlehanded upwind with a non-overlap headsail. Full canvas is rightly for the lighter stuff. Weird, huh? 30 knots likely sees 3 reefs.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, silent bob said:

I don’t think I’d be reefing in 8 knots of breeze and flat water, with no headsail up and the motor running!  Let’s see him do this in 30 knots, with a sea state to match!  

Paul C. knows his stuff, but yeah.  fslijelof should stick to slab reefing.  If he doesn't want the extra line, use a snap shackle or hook for the luff, maybe just use two lines for the first reef since it's used most often and it sounds like they want to stay in the cockpit.  No idea what kind of boat he and his wife sail but I've set up locks on a Class 40 and it seemed like overkill for a boat that small. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, silent bob said:

I don’t think I’d be reefing in 8 knots of breeze and flat water, with no headsail up and the motor running!  Let’s see him do this in 30 knots, with a sea state to match!  

What that guy did in 8 knots is what I used to do solo in 30+ on my old 40ft Jeanneau. Piss easy.... worked for all 3 reefs.

The trick is to prepare the boat for reefing and practice it in the marina so that it will work that easy when you really need it. On a good day, I could do all three reefs without leaving the cockpit.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sail on this boat a lot because I bought it. It works exactly this way up to about thirty knots when the third reef is needed. There is so much line for the third reef that I don't set it up that way but may if I get the gumption to do the b12 the reason I bought the boat.

All the 'it can't possibly work this way' folks are incorrect. I wouldn't try this on anything over 35 feet or with a longer boom and I sail on those kind of boats too. Uncle has a Morgan 382 for example. Without slick lines and friction free fairleads it would probably be a nightmare and not worth trying. With them I keep the boat right where it should be prob reefing and unreefing 30 to 50 percent more often because of the time it takes. Single and DH racing that makes the boat flatter and faster.

Older boat and running rigging ...no.

New high aspect rig with willingness to do it right? Fast. Lotta string tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Works surprisingly good on a Garcia Exploration 52. The first two reefs are single line, the third is done with two lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2020 at 5:41 PM, r.finn said:

Paul C. knows his stuff, but yeah.  fslijelof should stick to slab reefing.  If he doesn't want the extra line, use a snap shackle or hook for the luff, maybe just use two lines for the first reef since it's used most often and it sounds like they want to stay in the cockpit.  No idea what kind of boat he and his wife sail but I've set up locks on a Class 40 and it seemed like overkill for a boat that small. 

Thanks @r.finn we're sailing a Prima 38, not a big boat but the boom is 5,5m and the main is 50m2, so there is more than enough sail to make us think twice about reefing. Also I was considering a lock solution to save the 3Di sail from shafe 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, fsiljelof said:

Thanks @r.finn we're sailing a Prima 38, not a big boat but the boom is 5,5m and the main is 50m2, so there is more than enough sail to make us think twice about reefing. Also I was considering a lock solution to save the 3Di sail from shafe 

What are your clew reef attachments?  Press rings, webbing with rings, etc...?  Others will know better but I've seen IMOCAs using clutches in the aft end of the boom for clew reefs.  Reef, engage clutch, release loaded winch.  This helps relieve boom compression and has the same effect on the sail as it would without clutches in the boom.  West Engineering Ltd makes an actual lock for the clew reef which is external.  Not cheap.  I'd talk to your sail maker, but obviously there are many above who are happy with their single line solutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO karver hooks are the best - take some setting up, but once set up - easy to set and drop - needs a soft loop on reef
 at mast my pref is a soft loop through the crinkle to Talsker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used double line reefing for 2 reef points on my cat. Only issue was using same winch for both leech and luff lines. Did require a bit of clutching/unclutching.

But I'd routinely reef downwind by just hauling down the luff reef line a few feet until it was really tight, than ease the halyard when it would get taut, and repeat. 

After the luff was in the right place, then the leech line would be tensioned properly. It was usually tightened a bit bit as the luff line was brought in so as to avoid it flogging all over the place. With reefing lines properly marked I could do it under the cockpit cover and never needed to even look at the sail in most circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2020 at 11:54 AM, The Dark Knight said:

 

The trick is to prepare the boat for reefing and practice it in the marina so that it will work that easy when you really need it. On a good day, I could do all three reefs without leaving the cockpit.

 

 

Must be a lot of string in the cockpit & a royal PITA when hoisting the main though?

I'm standard slab with tack ring onto horns at the mast & I still only rig my 3rd reef when I know it will blow. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, MiddayGun said:

Must be a lot of string in the cockpit & a royal PITA when hoisting the main though?

I'm standard slab with tack ring onto horns at the mast & I still only rig my 3rd reef when I know it will blow. 

No issues at all. The reef lines are packed away in the boom bag with the sail and cause no issue when hoisting or dropping. It does become a spaghetti bowel in the cockpit after going from 0 to 2 or 3 reef, but then I tidy up.

The Zspar SLR works well for cruising. 

 

YR1agYLPiKR9wooCe7e7ZGoo0lg0z4x3x1uZLpWj 

 

I prefer it to the Selden setup which the boat I currently sail on has. It seems over complicated and yet is no easier or better. Perhaps there is a few meters less rope in the cockpit when reefed.

SeldenSSRS.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah when I saw the Selden setup for single line reefing I thought it looked a little prone to jamming up when you needed it most, blocks having to move inside the boom etc.

I'm tempted to try single line reefing for my first reef since I carry a decent amount of sail area & get to use it a lot.
At some point I plan to taper all my reefing lines as well, reduce weight & line diameter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Selden set up is clever. Perhaps too clever. Probably works great for the first five years of Sunday sails. Thereafter a maintenance nightmare only exceeded by the dangerous situation that leads from failure of the gizmo at a critical time.

Is it only for the first reef? Looks like it. Fail. The second reef is the one I'd dream of having in the cockpit.

I reef at the mast. Most minimal simple slab system possible. In all conditions. Hundreds of times now. No big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is actually me in that video, thanks Rand for posting.  Glad some agree and some disagree..  The reason it is in light wind was for filming.  I have reefed in 30 kts and it was not a problem at all.  Would I do this on a Class 40, no. the one we sailed to Hawaii was two lines, pain in the ass setup, and longer, but yes stronger.  For coastal racing this is great, when you reef in and out all the time as I do in our shorthanded races in RI.  

The rig and boom are not Selden, they are VMG SoroMap.  And Rand now owns that boat, I have another one coming from France.

Here is a guy who knows more then most about reefing in breeze.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Kincora said:

That is actually me in that video, thanks Rand for posting.  Glad some agree and some disagree..  The reason it is in light wind was for filming.  I have reefed in 30 kts and it was not a problem at all.  Would I do this on a Class 40, no. the one we sailed to Hawaii was two lines, pain in the ass setup, and longer, but yes stronger.  For coastal racing this is great, when you reef in and out all the time as I do in our shorthanded races in RI.  

The rig and boom are not Selden, they are VMG SoroMap.  And Rand now owns that boat, I have another one coming from France.

Here is a guy who knows more then most about reefing in breeze.

 

What is your new boat?!! I am in love with what you did with the A31. Lucky Rand that got it.

BR!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the Valiant 40 I use a traditional leech line setup, and a Cunningham tackle and hook for the luff tension.

Recently I modified it by adding a third reef luff line back to the cockpit. I marked it and the main halyard for all three reefs, and use it and the halyard to rough set the first and second reef luffs from the cockpit, then go forward to tension the luff with the Cunningham tackle.

The third reef is all set from the cockpit, no need to go forward.

Works well, hits the sweet spot for a cruiser...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single line reefing is the devils work, the bits that tangle are not accessible.  Only change I have made for short handed slab reefing is adding downhaul lines to the luff, just 1:1 lead back to cockpit, instead of cow horns for the tack, so one person can reef without leaving the cockpit.

I like to organise the pit so I have the luff downhauls and halyard on one side, and the topper, kicker, and reef lines on the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Badia420,, thanks that was a great boat, and Rand is taking excellent care of her.  I went for another A31 that is coming this Spring.  Another buddy is also buying one. That will be three on the same line for our shorthanded racing in New England.  A few more and we have our own start.  But if not we still have three racing boat for boat.  All good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I singlehand my Express 37, offshore and long distance. She has 3 reefs, each with 2 lines. Each set of lines run through twin clutches, which enables me to pull both tack & clew at the same time. I can reef or shake while kneeling in the companionway and never going to the mast. In or out takes 1 minute.  Yes there is a lot of line.

Procedure is to release vang and slack main sheet, slack main halyard 18in, take up tack & clew line for each reef, leaving clutches closed, repeat 2 more times. If you let out a few more inches of main halyard, you can hand tighten the tack reef line. Tighten main halyard, the clew reef line, vang, sheet in the main and you're done. Clean up. Marking the main halyard for each reef is more than handy.

To shake a reef, release, the vang, main sheet, and the clutches for that reef and crank the main up until the luff is tight. Then adjust vang and the main sheet. You're on your way.

Its fast and easy so you'll reef, shake and sail faster.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2020 at 1:06 PM, Kincora said:

That is actually me in that video, thanks Rand for posting.  Glad some agree and some disagree..  The reason it is in light wind was for filming.  I have reefed in 30 kts and it was not a problem at all.  Would I do this on a Class 40, no. the one we sailed to Hawaii was two lines, pain in the ass setup, and longer, but yes stronger.  For coastal racing this is great, when you reef in and out all the time as I do in our shorthanded races in RI.  

The rig and boom are not Selden, they are VMG SoroMap.  And Rand now owns that boat, I have another one coming from France.

Here is a guy who knows more then most about reefing in breeze.

 

What the hell is with the dead goat carcass and garden rake on the stern pulpit?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I race a SF3600 and the system we use is just a simple tylaska on a strop for the tack of the reef and a single line on the clew. It means you have to leave the cockpit to put a reef in (you can run a trip line to release) but it’s just an idiot proof system. Our main is a little smaller than yours at around 40sqm but it’s on a bolt rope and is a 3di raw main also with a carbon blend. My procedure for a single handed reef is to ease the main halyard to a pre set mark, I then go forward and clip the reef on, come back to tension the halyard and then wind the reef in at the clew. Being a bolt rope I do then have to tidy the excess sail away, I usually use bungee loops with a hook as they’re much faster to use and you don’t end up with sail tie tails flapping. I would potentially consider a downhaul line on the luff to help pull the sail down if it’s really blowing. We use a downhaul line for the reefing jib setup 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/27/2020 at 5:17 PM, Ultraman said:

What the hell is with the dead goat carcass and garden rake on the stern pulpit?!?

I think its a hoe rather than a rake, although I don't think that makes things any clearer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, European Bloke said:

I think its a hoe rather than a rake, although I don't think that makes things any clearer.

That's how you buy meat down there, it does NOT come packaged in white Styrofoam & cling wrap - and it's freezing cold out, no need to put it in your "freezer" when nature provides one. The tool may be a snow shovel to keep the decks clear.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Joe B. I have a lot of single hand offshore time on my CS34 and have used the double line reeling a lot. The only change I made was to put a block at the luff for the first reef. This had the effect of putting more tension on the luff simply because of the additional friction at the leech. Can probably accomplish the same using a single line at the leech if you want it more open. The advantages of staying in the cockpit when things get interesting far outweigh anything for me offshore. That way I'm much more apt to hold more sail longer and change more often than if I had to be on deck every change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe B. and Chasedon,  

Great to have your experience on this thread.  Having also sailed singlehanded for a very long time, I just have a different system.  Too bad I don't live on the West Coast or I would dive into those races.  Enjoyed the Pac Cup in 2012, it is a great race, and now I have life long friends from the team.  Maybe again, but it is so hard to leave New England at that time of year.  All good with so many options.

I do have to correct one point.  My single line reefing is the same as two line reefing on leech tension.  The line has the same lead, and just goes through the forward Antal ring at the tack.  Once the luff it tight, against the locked main halyard, the leech can be tensioned as tight as you want, exactly the same way.

My system is a straight run through the boom, not through any blocks with crazy purchase that I would never use.  Just a block at end of the boom, and the Antal Rings, on clew and tack.  Then a block at partners to lead aft.  

And as for line breaking, you lash the tack, and then are dealing with the same problem a two line system would have when the line breaks.

So it is a good system for me.  I fully understand it is not for everyone, and two line is great for a lot of people.

Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy,, and doing what we can to help the people who are making the difference.  Hope we can all get back to our passion this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single line reefing seems to be a really good sunny day dock & beer sunday project

Double line reefing seems to be what people actually use in foul weather

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2020 at 12:01 PM, JL92S said:

I race a SF3600 and the system we use is just a simple tylaska on a strop for the tack of the reef and a single line on the clew. It means you have to leave the cockpit to put a reef in (you can run a trip line to release) but it’s just an idiot proof system. Our main is a little smaller than yours at around 40sqm but it’s on a bolt rope and is a 3di raw main also with a carbon blend. My procedure for a single handed reef is to ease the main halyard to a pre set mark, I then go forward and clip the reef on, come back to tension the halyard and then wind the reef in at the clew. Being a bolt rope I do then have to tidy the excess sail away, I usually use bungee loops with a hook as they’re much faster to use and you don’t end up with sail tie tails flapping. I would potentially consider a downhaul line on the luff to help pull the sail down if it’s really blowing. We use a downhaul line for the reefing jib setup 

Interesting. Would you share a pic of your arrangement ? I have a single line system in my J92s but doesn't work well (too much friction).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Furkolkjaaf said:

Interesting. Would you share a pic of your arrangement ? I have a single line system in my J92s but doesn't work well (too much friction).

I don’t actually have many photos of the system but we have a clew reefing line much like a regular system except we use a boom nappy to protect the carbon boom. In the first photo you can just see the tylaska on a strop hanging near the gooseneck and that’s what we would use. There is one each side but the weather side tylaska needs to always be connected if that makes sense?D04BCCA5-A5EE-4CF4-9794-312142346FAA.thumb.png.eeeb6f985e62df065354c20680c3120a.png52E9B4B3-57C6-40B4-9D97-88A9C678990E.thumb.jpeg.c67f9ec044a8e02905ff9f2ef51186e9.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JL92S that looks like a nice system and a great boat.  Have not sailed the 3600, but did sail the 3200 with Daniel and his wife in La Rochelle, great people.  Have you looked into the Karver Reef hooks?   My next A31 is hopefully going to ship this season from La Rochelle to US, and I plan on trying two of these at the luff for reef 2 & 3.  Will keep my current setup for the first since that is in and out so often.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2020 at 5:59 PM, Kincora said:

JL92S that looks like a nice system and a great boat.  Have not sailed the 3600, but did sail the 3200 with Daniel and his wife in La Rochelle, great people.  Have you looked into the Karver Reef hooks?   My next A31 is hopefully going to ship this season from La Rochelle to US, and I plan on trying two of these at the luff for reef 2 & 3.  Will keep my current setup for the first since that is in and out so often.

 

 

 

 

Have you checked the price on those? i did a quick search the other day and didn¡t find any conclusive.

They are a nice, and the idea looks good, though i think it is difficult to set them up as they cannot be "moved" undersail

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2020 at 4:59 PM, Kincora said:

JL92S that looks like a nice system and a great boat.  Have not sailed the 3600, but did sail the 3200 with Daniel and his wife in La Rochelle, great people.  Have you looked into the Karver Reef hooks?   My next A31 is hopefully going to ship this season from La Rochelle to US, and I plan on trying two of these at the luff for reef 2 & 3.  Will keep my current setup for the first since that is in and out so often.

 

 

 

 

I like the look of the reef hooks but on a boat such as the 3600 you only have a conventional pit area that is already full of rope and bits of string. Adding extra release lines would add complication as would coming up with a means of securing the hook in place on the boom. A nice idea would be dog bones through the boom but it’s more modification of the spar which I’m inclined to not do. As for the tack end again, more rope and bits of string...

I’d love to have a class 40 style pit area with all the rope and string in 1 place but that’s sadly not an option here. For us the Tylaskas are idiot proof!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, there is enough going on in the pit, even on my boat.  But I have a few ideas, will give it a try, and see if I can find a decent solution. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fsiljelof-I am in the process of converting my single line reefing to slab because it is more consistent.  I have had both setups.  I have a year old, 2019 SF 3600 that came with single line reefing,  and sometimes it works great but sometimes it has all the problems listed above (luff preferentially loads, chafes at the boom sometimes, etc).  Although single line reefing can work seamlessly, especially on the first reef where there is not as much line to bind, all the fairleads/blocks have to be set up perfectly and you have to be careful to take out all the slack before loading it.  I used single line for my 1st reef on my Pearson 39 for the Bermuda Ocean Race and it was great-all reefing done by one or two people in 30-45 seconds from the cockpit.  For the second and third reef I used the same system as JL92, except I used a different Wichard shackle that also released under load.  One person has to go to the mast, but still can be done in <45sec with practice, and there is no uncertainty or binding lines.  The Pearson originally had single line 2nd and 3rd reefs, but they would often bind in the boom, leaving the foot of thee sail loose-bad-so I converted to slab for 2nd and 3rd reefs and was much happier.  Even though I single and double-hand all the time on my 3600, I am converting to slab using a strop like JL92-it is just bomb-proof in my experience.  What really sold me was last week I was out short-handed sailing (I mean subsistence fishing) in 25-28 and had 2nd reef in-I cam back to find the polyester cover chafed right off the 2nd reef line where it exited the front of the boom-the Antal ring just happened to twist creating chafe-too many turns, too much uncertainty. Also-don't see any need for the Karver hooks-just more lines to get tangled.

I am going to use the Dyneema core (without the poly cover) for the 2nd reefing line where it exits the boom at the leech (light weight aloft, low friction through the sheaves) with the cover added on where it runs through the clutchs for grip.  Has anyone who has used this (it appears in several past forums) had any problems with this setup?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I converted my factory-equipped single-line reefing to slab-reefing using dyneema strops attached to shackles (see JL92) that release under load. It is easier to get the foot flat (see pictures) than the previous single line system and it is more consistent (for my setup) and therefore faster under stressful conditions.   image.png.310c05e5b05a45e3e0c1e86e77a335fd.pngimage.png.d855592a9d91fb7c33cc74fa16f9508f.png    

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have raced alot on an Elan E4 with Selden single line reefing boom and it has worked flawlessly. In my experience the cringle reefing eyes have to be in EXACTLY the correct position, know boats that had no issues, got a new main and had endless issues.

Also, I recently came up with an idea on a mates 14m fast cruiser that has worked a treat.

It basically works on the idea of moving the reefing horn on the gooseneck back to the cockpit without the need for 3 extra clutches.  Basically each luff reef line is loop to loop length of dyneema with a small mouse tail attached to one loop.  The other loop is attached to a mast padeye like the pic above and it is spliced to the correct length for the reef needed.  Each luff reef line obviously goes down through a mast base block then back to the cockpit.

In the cockpit you install a S/S horn cleat that I cut down 80% of the 'horns'.  So when you reef you simply pull the mouse tail on the luff reefing line as you drop the main, then once you reach the dyneema loop, you put it over the horn cleat and then simply tighten the halyard and leech reefing lines.

Works a treat!!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mezaire said:

I have raced alot on an Elan E4 with Selden single line reefing boom and it has worked flawlessly. In my experience the cringle reefing eyes have to be in EXACTLY the correct position, know boats that had no issues, got a new main and had endless issues.

Also, I recently came up with an idea on a mates 14m fast cruiser that has worked a treat.

It basically works on the idea of moving the reefing horn on the gooseneck back to the cockpit without the need for 3 extra clutches.  Basically each luff reef line is loop to loop length of dyneema with a small mouse tail attached to one loop.  The other loop is attached to a mast padeye like the pic above and it is spliced to the correct length for the reef needed.  Each luff reef line obviously goes down through a mast base block then back to the cockpit.

In the cockpit you install a S/S horn cleat that I cut down 80% of the 'horns'.  So when you reef you simply pull the mouse tail on the luff reefing line as you drop the main, then once you reach the dyneema loop, you put it over the horn cleat and then simply tighten the halyard and leech reefing lines.

Works a treat!!

 Nice idea, I use a third reef luff line and do roughly the same thing, it is marked for the first and second reef settings, just that I have to go to the mast base to set a Cunningham once the first and second reefs are set up. The third reef is completely set from the cockpit.

It also lets me winch the luff down if it is stuck in a blow.

A question, I designed this set this up so I didn’t have three lines jamming up at the luff when I raised the main, the leech lines are bad enough. In the interest of simplification, couldn’t you just take your luff lines from the reef cringle on the sail then back to the cockpit? It would halve the amount of line you were using, or have I missed something...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, olaf hart said:

 Nice idea, I use a third reef luff line and do roughly the same thing, it is marked for the first and second reef settings, just that I have to go to the mast base to set a Cunningham once the reefs are set up.

It also lets me winch the luff down if it is stuck in a blow.

A question, I designed this set this up so I didn’t have three lines jamming up at the luff when I raised the main, the leech lines are bad enough. In the interest of simplification, couldn’t you just take your luff lines from the reef cringle on the sail then back to the cockpit? It would halve the amount of line you were using, or have I missed something...

Yes I guess you could!!, Just have to make sure it went via the padeye to make sure it pulls fwd and down.  My client also had cringles not loops on the sail to the reefing line had to pass through and tie onto something, so if you had the above setup, no problem.

I also spliced the dyneema lines a bit short and lashed them to the padeye via a friction ring and 3mm dyneema as of course the dyneema stretched after splicing and this allowed the client to get the lengths spot on after a few sails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2020 at 11:43 PM, mpbeagle said:

I converted my factory-equipped single-line reefing to slab-reefing using dyneema strops attached to shackles (see JL92) that release under load. It is easier to get the foot flat (see pictures) than the previous single line system and it is more consistent (for my setup) and therefore faster under

Before you changed it, was your factory rig set up like the Selden single-line system, with sliding shuttle-blocks in the boom?
 

I have the Selden system and am undecided on it, difficult to get the foot flat enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add me to the JL92 and Mpbeagle brigade; 

  • A short dyneema strop with a snap shackle for the luff.
  • All three reefs have their own, when not in use they are clipped back onto themselves on the mast. 
  • Three traditional reef lines for the leach.

It has an added benefit. When you are solo, under full main and things get really hairy really quickly and I need a reef now,  I just drop the main onto the boom and drive off the headsail for the initial transition that typically does all the damage. No appreciable loss in speed and the autopilot might move another inch or so but well under control even with a big headsail. 

Even at 30+ the boat is now comfortable. I have time then to get myself sorted, then go to the mast and clip whichever luff reef on. The key is you can find it and attach it easily with the sail unflaked and messy as fuck. 

Back to the cockpit and hoist halyard till luff is tight. Take up on the leach reef line. 

To date it's worked regardless of conditions and it's been bullet proof. A RYA instructor showed me how flexible it can be for single handing, it's become my default go to ever since.   

If you have the luxury of time you don' t need a full drop of course, as JL mentioned just ease halyard till you've lined up the reef point, then go forward and clip the luff. Nothing to jam or foul and it won't come undone till you want it to.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

All three reefs have their own, when not in use they are clipped back onto themselves on the mast. 

Why one each? Why not just one at the gooseneck? Seems like expense and extra stuff banging around aloft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Why one each? Why not just one at the gooseneck? Seems like expense and extra stuff banging around aloft?

G'day El B,

There is nothing aloft mate except the normal cringles on the luff. The dyneema strops and shackles are tethered to a hardpoint on the mast. 

The reason for the three is you have too much sail on the boom to use a singular one at the gooseneck without having to adjust the length of the strop.

The strops are short enough (8" ?) not to foul anything. My third reef is extra deep to emulate a trysail, so the hardpoints have to be higher on the mast or you need an adjustable strop length. 

The position of the hardpoints are relevant to making this all sexy slick, you want them close enough to the cringle to keep the strop length short but with enough length to be able to use easily for clipping on and off. 

Cheers!

SB

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shaggybaxter said:

G'day El B,

There is nothing aloft mate except the normal cringles on the luff. The dyneema strops and shackles are tethered to a hardpoint on the mast. 

The reason for the three is you have too much sail on the boom to use a singular one at the gooseneck without having to adjust the length of the strop.

The strops are short enough (8" ?) not to foul anything. My third reef is extra deep to emulate a trysail, so the hardpoints have to be higher on the mast or you need an adjustable strop length. 

The position of the hardpoints are relevant to making this all sexy slick, you want them close enough to the cringle to keep the strop length short but with enough length to be able to use easily for clipping on and off. 

Cheers!

SB

 

 

If you do this setup, I find having a short length of some grippy line (with a small stopper knot in it) tied onto the strop is useful. To pull with the strop while you are trying to make the end off.

 

There is also something to be said for a bitch-line, depending on how hard your main is to pull down.

 

HW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/10/2020 at 9:48 AM, Salona said:

Before you changed it, was your factory rig set up like the Selden single-line system, with sliding shuttle-blocks in the boom?
 

I have the Selden system and am undecided on it, difficult to get the foot flat enough.

Before I changed it, this on was not the selden shuttle-block system on my current boat-the 3600; but I had that Selden system on my last boat-worked fine for the first reef (most of the time), but on the second and third reef, often got slack somewhere in the boom causing the foot to loosen up just when it was blowing 35 and you needed that flat foot.  For my ocen racing I converted that boat's 2nd and third reef to slab as well using the cunningham and a downhaul.  This boat is small enough to easily crawl up from the cockpit and hook up the strop.  I might use a downhaul in the ocean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mpbeagle said:

Before I changed it, this on was not the selden shuttle-block system on my current boat-the 3600; but I had that Selden system on my last boat-worked fine for the first reef (most of the time), but on the second and third reef, often got slack somewhere in the boom causing the foot to loosen up just when it was blowing 35 and you needed that flat foot.  For my ocen racing I converted that boat's 2nd and third reef to slab as well using the cunningham and a downhaul.  This boat is small enough to easily crawl up from the cockpit and hook up the strop.  I might use a downhaul in the ocean.

I like your concept. When we replace our main, I think I want to go with a very shallow 1st reef, and deeper 2nd, with a very deep 3rd. The issue we have is that we spend too much time debating whether to reef.  But if it was just a small adjustment, we’d be quicker to take that first reef and probably faster for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes-if you are well practiced with your system and therefore confident and faster, you will reef more often, and it won't be stressful.  You will probably need a longer strop for your deep third reef.  Play with it at the dock and find the right length-long enough to reach the reefing strap on the luff but short enough to be pulling down and forward as close to the boom as the gathered sail will allow with that third reef in.  Once you know the right length you can splice a dyneema line to a tylaska clip and then practice the routine a few times with your "crew".  There will be only one way to reef and "debate" about when or how to reef will be a thing of the past.:)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use single line reef for both reef 1 and 2 and love it. It sets in less than a min and shakes off faster. I have low friction rings in the main, reef 1 on the starboard side and reef 2 on port, although the next main will have them on the same side. My set up reduces friction in the system, but it changes the main if I don't set reef 2 from reef 1. With a vectran halyard, stretch is virtually non existent, so I drop the halyard to the mark and grind the reef. 2 important things for sail from, a fairlead on the gooseneck to pull the tack forward and an eye on the boom so that the reef goes slightly backwards and not only downwards at the clew. One benefit of this system is the possibility to shake off downwind even with pressure on the main and under spinnaker

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now