Mozzy Sails 410 #1 Posted March 12, 2020 Live coverage each day https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/227424/Live-coverage-of-the-2020-JJ-Giltinan-Championship 18's channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsluvCCMywLLQHWV164wpCQ Winning Appliances have really not lived up to expectations. Tech 2 seems the form team, by some way, the website shows Brett as skipper but I think it's been Jack most weeks? Which boat was Tech2 previously and where were they last year? Smegg not as quite there this year after a few season of being one of, if not the top aussies? Is that due to the crew change, or lack of development on the boat? ASKO had been pretty neat, was it just a sponsor swap to Shaw and Partners or a different boat. They don't seem to have been up there so much this season. Will the Kiwi's just come along and mop up again? Predictions and insights please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethrow 132 #2 Posted March 12, 2020 Bringing new sails from NZ will always be an advantage over the 3 year old rubbish older sails the Aussies have to use... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #4 Posted March 12, 2020 Tech2 is skippered by Jack Macartney who’s back this year after trying so hard to get the super Foiler series up and running. Sailed for many years on the mighty Rag and Famish. Invitation race today so an opportunity to see were everyone is at. 8-12 knot NEer today so a few long run to stretch the legs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #5 Posted March 12, 2020 the 2020 JJ Giltinan race program. An interesting read with a lot of 18footers history included https://www.18footers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Giltinan-2020-Programme.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #6 Posted March 13, 2020 Fresh to frightening for the race 1 of the JJs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desprit 59 #8 Posted March 14, 2020 Tricky day. Honda did a good job of coming from behind. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #9 Posted March 15, 2020 Link to today’s race 2 of the JJ Giltinan Worlds livestream starts at 2:00 Sydney time from the boat park presented by aeromedia https://youtu.be/pzEPsUhFios Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbow Spirit 280 #10 Posted March 15, 2020 Honda Marine already ahead with a clean slate of two wins out of two starts, and there is no other boat breathing down their neck atm. Still time for the others I guess... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil S 159 #11 Posted March 15, 2020 What a dominating performance by HONDA today. Hard to see them not taking series #3. Aside: The NZ team all competed today, so have accepted the NZ government ultimatum that all NZ arrivals after today will need to undertake 14 day self quarantine. These guys are really dedicated to their sailing. (The Aust govt have just implmented the same reqirement for arrivals in Aust.) This virus is really messing up our world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Clark 682 #12 Posted March 15, 2020 Honda seem to have the ideal mode for any regatta. “The longer the race, the better we do.” I have only had those chops several times. It was great! SHC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmicsedso 62 #13 Posted March 16, 2020 The boathandling on Honda seems to be consistently better as well. Hard to see them being beaten as they also have a fast big rig as well. The forecast is for much lighter breezes into the weekend. Some of the boathandling on the others has been almost appalling, NZedders included! There is tension between Winning Group and URM and I'm inclined to think Marcus is right. How did WG get away with the Port tack approach to the windward mark? And tack right on the mark in front of URM? This is what happens when protests are frowned upon. Irregardless with no penalty taken WG should RAF. Smegs results not shabby after 2 appalling starts. Tech2 surely can keep it upright for the rest of the regatta. They capsized TWICE in race 2! Tech2 is a completely NEW boat. Shaw and Partners is just new paint? And Finport???? It sure will be interesting to see how this plays out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #14 Posted March 16, 2020 2 race day tomorrow. 8-10 Knt SEr so the skiffs will be on their big rigs for the first time in the regatta Heres the link to the Livestream. Starts at 2:00 Sydney Time with Troy Tindall in the boat park https://youtu.be/LycF1C3b7Yc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desprit 59 #15 Posted March 16, 2020 They have cancelled the spectator ferry for the obvious reason. Will this event go the full duration? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mozzy Sails 410 #16 Posted March 16, 2020 Watching the racing it's hard to see anyone competing with Honda. But with light and fluky winds we'll see. The Aus boats have spent quite a bit of time on their big rigs this season. Honda do seem to have an extra click of boat speed. But, their general 'getting around the course' is just so much neater. It's definitely not just a better rig. The Aussies are making for great viewing though, no-one is ever more than a leg away from disaster. Leeward mark roundings in particular have been comical at times. I'm sure it's herder than it looks, but Honda sure do make it look very easy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin T 63 #17 Posted March 16, 2020 I've noticed Honda are the only boat who heels their boat to windward going up the beat. This seems to be working for them, is it really any faster? Shame there are no Brit boats this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mozzy Sails 410 #18 Posted March 16, 2020 In the 800 a bit of windward heel feels nice and balanced on the helm. Julian posted a few times saying it reduces tip losses or something. I'll leave him to explain. The downside is you have less weight through your feet, so balance gets a bit tricky. You also have to raise slightly higher on your trap to avoid getting washed away in the lulls (or be better at trimming). Most boats have a quite a bit of stability through buoyancy, so the further you heel to windward the less righting moment you have (centre of bouyancy moves out faster than the centre of gravity, so the boat will always bob back upright). That's static buoyancy so doesn't describe the lift from the hull shape passing through the water, but you might understand what I mean. I feel on a skiff the rigs are quite tall and the hulls less stable, so the weight of the rig over to windward seems to help sooner. Just a theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbulger 51 #19 Posted March 16, 2020 Any local discussion of cancellation? Second only to the NHL playoffs, this is my favorite spectator sporting event, well as of now, this is my favorite event.... love to see it keep going if they can maintain the social distancing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbow Spirit 280 #20 Posted March 16, 2020 It's not a close contact sport, well except at some mark roundings, so I can't see why you would cancel the event because of COVID19. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mozzy Sails 410 #21 Posted March 17, 2020 https://www.18footers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/regatta-pointscore-17th-March.html Hard to see that 6 point lead being lost. Two races left maximum? Honda looked very quick today, several times they just scraped out a lane, squeezing out winning group. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohammed Bin Lyin 71 #22 Posted March 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Martin T said: I've noticed Honda are the only boat who heels their boat to windward going up the beat. This seems to be working for them, is it really any faster? The hull is designed to be sailed flat when on the plane so no from that aspect. A bit of windward heel can be good when it's gusty it levels out in the gust don't have to ease as much sheet maybe a little faster as gust hits. Windward heel also stops the skipper from pinching too much which also helps speed another thing to consider. Downwind when fresh with big waves a bit of windward heel as you run up the back of the wave then come up a touch so its flat when going over the top lifts the bow up. The bow can fall into the trough with leeward heel going over big waves which gives a nice view of the boat capsizing as you swing around the headsail on trapeze so downwind windward heel in big waves helps survival. The financial reports from Double bay linked on their website show the club owns the boats and claims depreciation on them for tax. This one design nonsense was more about saving one club instead of the class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sosoomii 423 #23 Posted March 17, 2020 Got to say I’ve enjoyed watching the racing again, and the Honda guys are embarrassing the Aussies in their own back yard, which is always good But I can’t help thinking the marketing folk are missing a trick. Compared to the old days the colours, logos and names are much more muted and difficult to distinguish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Holman 73 #24 Posted March 17, 2020 On 3/16/2020 at 4:00 PM, Mozzy Sails said: In the 800 a bit of windward heel feels nice and balanced on the helm. Julian posted a few times saying it reduces tip losses or something. I'll leave him to explain. The downside is you have less weight through your feet, so balance gets a bit tricky. You also have to raise slightly higher on your trap to avoid getting washed away in the lulls (or be better at trimming). Most boats have a quite a bit of stability through buoyancy, so the further you heel to windward the less righting moment you have (centre of bouyancy moves out faster than the centre of gravity, so the boat will always bob back upright). That's static buoyancy so doesn't describe the lift from the hull shape passing through the water, but you might understand what I mean. I feel on a skiff the rigs are quite tall and the hulls less stable, so the weight of the rig over to windward seems to help sooner. Just a theory. Yep I'd say its a lot about helm balance - you lose a bit of RM from CoB, gain a bit from rig on top. Generally only works in breeze I think. Not seen this JJ but last one Honda sailed with a twistier main which meant they weren't inverting, closing slot, and were shedding power from up high etc compared to Aus boats. Certainly seemed to work, as well as the ww heel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill E Goat 268 #25 Posted March 18, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 7:37 AM, bangbang said: the 2020 JJ Giltinan race program. An interesting read with a lot of 18footers history included https://www.18footers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Giltinan-2020-Programme.pdf A lot included but a lot left out, no mention of Grand Prix Sailing that took the 18's to a massive national televised audience Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MR.CLEAN 3,811 #26 Posted March 18, 2020 write the paragraph and send it to 'em then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill E Goat 268 #27 Posted March 18, 2020 Grand Prix sailing is "series non grata" to the league. It will never be mentioned ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MR.CLEAN 3,811 #28 Posted March 18, 2020 my bad, now i remember the story. Part of a Bundy afternoon at rushcutters with 4 hours of Killo narratives RIP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frogman56 86 #29 Posted March 18, 2020 Last two races today.... So a full series, but shorter format races. Wind today less than yesterday, probably around 12 knots nne. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #30 Posted March 18, 2020 Plenty of those Clean. Except the Resch’s beer was the drop of choice. The narrative was strong in that man. What could possibly go wrong!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bangbang 31 #31 Posted March 18, 2020 Point score after 7 races with a drop Final two races today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MR.CLEAN 3,811 #32 Posted March 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, bangbang said: Plenty of those Clean. Except the Resch’s beer was the drop of choice. The narrative was strong in that man. What could possibly go wrong!! he drank the beer, I drank the bundy. and paid for it later! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desprit 59 #33 Posted March 19, 2020 Well done Honda Marine! Let’s hope they get to take the trophy back home and the Aussies have to up their game to get it back. That would be the best thing for the class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mozzy Sails 410 #34 Posted March 19, 2020 JJ on Aukland harbour? Is that possible? Clearly with Tech2 on the same equipment as Honda there isn't a big jump in tech. I think Honda just sails so much better. It does feel like the aussies are very error prone. For a fleet that races each week you'd think they'd be more race sharp. Maybe not quite the week to week continuity in the teams? Is there a limit for time on the water, or is it just the practicality of getting three crew together to sail three days a week? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbulger 51 #35 Posted March 19, 2020 On 3/17/2020 at 2:31 PM, Daniel Holman said: Yep I'd say its a lot about helm balance - you lose a bit of RM from CoB, gain a bit from rig on top. Generally only works in breeze I think. Not seen this JJ but last one Honda sailed with a twistier main which meant they weren't inverting, closing slot, and were shedding power from up high etc compared to Aus boats. Certainly seemed to work, as well as the ww heel What did the 2020 Moth Worlds and the 2020 JJ's have in common? They were both totally dominated by the boat the sailed upwind with the most windward heel. Sailing either boat with windward heel requires a higher skill level to avoid digging a wing in during a lull or a header. Honda was so dialed-in that they could achieve windward heel while playing their mainsheet much less than others. Commentators said that the Kiwis spent more time practicing vs. racing - compared to the Aussies who prefer to race. Certainly and number of the top Aussie boats seemed to implode 1 out of 3 races - making mistakes that were surprising for such excellent sailors. 18 are super hard to get around a course, maybe that makes basic speed and boat-handling training more valuable - even for world class sailors. It would be fascinating to have a panel discussion with Slingsby and the Honda guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Holman 73 #36 Posted March 19, 2020 More twist from less vang (if that is still the case this year) means you move a lot less mainsheet as well, and is more tolerant of steering as well. All assuming you've got plenty of power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
