NZK

J Class and Superyacht drone footage

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The Superyacht Challenge is starting in Antigua and there is some pretty awesome footage coming from Francesco 'Checco' Naglia of Drone Project. Hopefully we can all enjoy a few minutes of pretty spectacular J Class kite hoists whilst the rest of the world turns to shit....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The crew really need to get those hoists right and work well together. Give me elegance and team work over speed and crew ducking out of the wind anytime!

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Amazing how fast they get the kite raised - they must have some high geared winches.

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Because asymmetric sails are more efficient sail shapes than symmetrics?

Best hoist in that group was Svea. Topaz undereased their jib to start then overeased it and hooked the kite on a batten. They're lucky they didn't shred that sail. 

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1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Why asymmetrical kites with their polars?

As Jackolantern said, some boats do still carry a symmetric spinnaker for certain conditions. When the J class boats came to race in the UK some carried asymmetric kites for running in the channel. A tactical decision over boat speed decision. Can’t imagine dip pile gybing that fucker though!

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24 minutes ago, JL92S said:

As Jackolantern said, some boats do still carry a symmetric spinnaker for certain conditions. When the J class boats came to race in the UK some carried asymmetric kites for running in the channel. A tactical decision over boat speed decision. Can’t imagine dip pile gybing that fucker though!

I can't imagine anything to do with running one of those monsters.

A spinnaker pole the size of a telephone pole. :blink: Even in carbon that would be a huge thing to move around.

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Best hoist in that group was Svea. Topaz undereased their jib to start then overeased it and hooked the kite on a batten. They're lucky they didn't shred that sail. 

Topaz trying to get the clew under control before dumping it in the water I suppose.

Svea lucky not to hook the mark with the spin sheet.

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Imagine: you go sailing with $1B in investment assets, and come back to the dock with $900M in assets. Probably puts a damper on appreciating the set at the weather mark.

Dow down 2352 today, dropping over 500 in the last 9 minutes.

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really love them. not as great as int. 8mR racing, but still lovely...

those deckchutes do make a difference!

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1 hour ago, carcrash said:

Imagine: you go sailing with $1B in investment assets, and come back to the dock with $900M in assets. Probably puts a damper on appreciating the set at the weather mark.

Dow down 2352 today, dropping over 500 in the last 9 minutes.

Somehow I don't think that J-Boat owners sweat $100 mil.

It's when they get down to their last few $Billion that they start to get concerned.

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Some boats are pulling out of racing. Most of the owners are in the danger age group, most of the racing crews will be flying in from all over the world.

Rich owners are prepared to risk a new paint job on the start line, but health, possible death, is a different story.

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11 minutes ago, JL92S said:

That’s a serious impact

yup!

wonder about the crew and  if the rear end fell off...

 

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There was a T-Bone between two Swan(??) 80s (100s??) at a superyacht regatta in 2011 that left one with a 6 foot by 4 foot triangle of damage in the side of the boat. That was probably pretty close to this one and is part of the reason why Non-J Class superyachts use a pursuit starting style (with Pantaneus-sponsored laser rangefinders on each yacht) now. 

Have to imagine the insurance companies will mandate some changes to the J Class Rules in order to continue insuring these beasts after this. 

Edit: Found that Photo https://www.sail-world.com/USA/Maxi-Yacht-Rolex-Cup--Illusion-and-Kora-crash-images-by-Ingrid-Abery/-88266?source=google

Alt_IMG_27911.jpg

Alt_IMG_28821.jpg

Alt_IMG_28761.jpg

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Inexcusable.

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That is an immense crash! Hopefully noone is too injured.

 

Clearly starboard boat was in the wrong...;)

 

(can't believe I was the first to bring it up)

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That crash is intense, trying to get updates of who get hospitalised. The impact was right into the brains trust/owner cockpit on Topaz.

Hopefully nothing too serious, lot of weight and momentum involved there.

Fuck knows how this happened, seems like some pretty shocking decision making on Svea but there might be more to it - possible that gear failure is involved.

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Mob. From front page.

Screen Shot 2020-03-13 at 6.47.01 PM.png

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Yes big heavy slow fuck up. No good. 
But ça n someone explain to me, on the filming boat, why so much panic and why we all had to run downstairs? 

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I don’t excuse the port tacker, bad misjudgement, or on board communications fuck up or something (all too easy) , but it looks to me stb tacker made things worse by heading up in the last moments and shoving his counter under the incoming bow of the port tacker.

It might have just about completely missed if stb tacker had taken the opposite action, ie pulled down hard and moved his counter away from the incoming bow. 

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Just now, LionIsland said:

Yes big heavy slow fuck up. No good. 
But ça n someone explain to me, on the filming boat, why so much panic and why we all had to run downstairs? 

I'm guessing they were the cocktail sipping crew only. Maybe the call was to drop sails to offer assitance or to gybe away from the clusterfuck to give more room, get the non-essentials out of the way etc so the crew can do what's needed.

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4 minutes ago, OW1981 said:

I'm guessing they were the cocktail sipping crew only. Maybe the call was to drop sails to offer assitance or to gybe away from the clusterfuck to give more room, get the non-essentials out of the way etc so the crew can do what's needed.

Or maybe there was fear that the rig of the port tack yacht rig was going to cone down on them 

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41 minutes ago, LionIsland said:

I don’t excuse the port tacker, bad misjudgement, or on board communications fuck up or something (all too easy) , but it looks to me stb tacker made things worse by heading up in the last moments and shoving his counter under the incoming bow of the port tacker.

It might have just about completely missed if stb tacker had taken the opposite action, ie pulled down hard and moved his counter away from the incoming bow. 

Problem is it takes a minute or two before your hel input (might) have any affect. And easing your main relatively quick isn't without danger either. That is also why each boat has a safety boat

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my point is if it can head up quite abruptly in a desperate, reactionary but ‘mistaken’ attempt in trying to avoid the imminent collision in the last 5 seconds it could possibly just as easily borne away and pretty much avoided or highly reduced the impact force and the unfortunate forwardness of the impact (if not entirely missing maybe just clipping the back corner). 

Oh yeah, of course, if it was me steering,  and let’s assume the steerer/owner was of a mature age with mature age reactions, and who was no doubt depending on forward spotters, young (er) gun tacticians and advisors on the boat and possibly also on an accompanying safety boat I would have definitely had that main eased and made the right instant decision to (it was quite possibly counter intuitively) pulled away not headed up. 

It all happened pretty quickly considering the dinosaur like size and speed of these things. 

There are, of course, zillions of incredible instant reaction examples of near misses. Unfortunately, no such luck here. Still on of my faves is from many years ago in a World Rally Champioship race (on it’s own a literal endless supply of amazing escapes by highly skilled drivers with lightning quick reactions) when an airborne car jumping over a hill top was faced with the prospect of hitting, between it’s headlights, a mad spectator standing in the middle of the track on the blind side of the crest about a car length or two further on than where the car was going to land. 
The driver threw the bum of the car sideways, just avoiding hitting the spectator with the front of the car (and no doubt killing him) and so the side of the car glanced and shoved the guy off the track with little or no injury. Lucky as fuck. 
 

 

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In Lord Nelson's day you wanted to cross the T.  Not so much on a J boat.

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boats are very slow to manouvre, if you think you can throw it around like a dinghy, definetely not! also 170% jibs might have something to do with the visibility. there is not much you can do in hte last 30 seconds before the crash. Luckily crew members are retrieved and alive and recovering. boats can be fixed. 

 

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Have seen this fuck up many tmes, a basic lack of coms between helm and trimmers.

"I am going to duck, ease the sheets,........ sheets do not get eased ,   or not fast enough, meanwhile helm is down and boat accelerates with little helm control because the vessel is now overpowered  and there is a nice big airbubble  growing on the rudder- what could possibly go wrong? and these guys are pros? 

Sounds like they need to hire some old school BN's and get the job done properly

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Rubbings racing! I am not sure that applies whilst racing J-Class yachts... That is simply a fuck-up of the highest order.

I love seeing close racing in J-Class yachts and its been going well for the past few years... But seeing comrades in hospital is bad form. 

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Latest report is that cracked ribs were the worst injury - hopefully this is correct (and I'd guess it was the poor individual getting punted off the side of Topaz).

Damage to Topaz's deck looks surprisingly minimal from video but apparently the mast head twisted 90° so that could be a right-off....

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1 guy with broken ribs in hospital, 2 needing medical attention. luckily no other injuries or worse.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, NZK said:

Latest report is that cracked ribs were the worst injury - hopefully this is correct (and I'd guess it was the poor individual getting punted off the side of Topaz).

Damage to Topaz's deck looks surprisingly minimal from video but apparently the mast head twisted 90° so that could be a right-off....

I was wondering if the rig fell or not.. 

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you can see the backstay of topaz on the outside of the jib of svea before it breaks

 

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8 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I was wondering if the rig fell or not.. 

Rigs stayed up but will both be getting pulled and checked. Good few hours of NDTing to be done, bring your sun hat... 

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I just hope they do not toss about with rules of racing after this one.

Guard rails were a thing a few years ago and this a pretty major collision which could stir something up; 'to preserve the fleet' or some bullshit

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Just now, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I just hope they do not toss about with rules of racing after this one.

Wasn't there a 30 mtr? exclusion zone rule in effect - for super yacht racing, crossing tacks - to avoid exactly this?

Or maybe that doesn't apply to this crowd or I just imagined that.

Bummer to see this though ..... faaark!

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Just a racing incident, anyone who thinks you can spin the wheel of a J and it will react even with the main eased (like it was) and the headsail sheeted on (like it was) then they misunderstand. An incident like this has been a long time in the making and it will probably happen again one day, it’s just what happens when you sail 135+ foot keelboats like you’d sail an Etchells. I think the last time two J’s came together was Ranger and Velsheda around 10 years ago which was a port starboard and the 2 boats bashed mid ships and bounced off one another. 
 

My opinion on the incident (probably doesn’t need anymore I know) is that Svea May have intended to tack in front but the boat tacking at the beginning of the video meant Svea Was committed to ducking 2 boats and couldn’t get the bow down in time. It’s very easy to say the other boat should have born away to lessen the blow but then you’ll likely clash rigs which could arguably be far more dangerous for the crew on deck. 
C9D9A866-24D9-4752-8627-AD607565D02A.thumb.jpeg.dad7b827b57f6cc8e1d2ee0171a95582.jpeg
A740A570-A32D-4FF5-A98E-FF1EE92CB24C.thumb.jpeg.029fe0f696b018be85b85d141b0cb433.jpeg

AACBB92E-C3D3-41F5-8949-38E7579E2D71.thumb.jpeg.e4939fb4b95aa132d12d2713812c14c6.jpeg

DC728789-E7A5-4657-A15C-91157C0AB1EC.thumb.jpeg.66c4ba1a5452c0cfd6472f39734e82fe.jpeg

 

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Just now, Laser1 said:

Wasn't there a 30 mtr? exclusion zone rule in effect - for super yacht racing, crossing tacks - to avoid exactly this?

First I have heard of that, but possible.

Might that have been a fleet/event only rule? It would be so hard to police

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Good idea.
Call it 40m. 

That means you’re  asking them, in affect, to keep off  atleast a boat length. 
Doesn’t sound unreasonable considering what’s at stake and how big n heavy those things are. 
Sure, probably a bit hard to police but how often do these things race and if you take a picture of a give way boat obviously inside that zone then they should wake up.
 

Almost incomprehensibly lucky the lack of injuries if those reports are right. 

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12 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

First I have heard of that, but possible.

Might that have been a fleet/event only rule? It would be so hard to police

This rule is typically enforced quite strictly by each of the boats as it can be used tactically...there's usually at least one person with a distance scope keeping track

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Just got this from my brother. Prepare to gasp!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Willin' said:

Just got this from my brother. Prepare to gasp!

 

 

Unreal! So amazing to see the same video 3 times in the same thread. Pretty sure you'll be in line for some of award.

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50 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I just hope they do not toss about with rules of racing after this one.

Guard rails were a thing a few years ago and this a pretty major collision which could stir something up; 'to preserve the fleet' or some bullshit

You really think guard rails wouldhave helped in this situation? 

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1 minute ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

You really think guard rails wouldhave helped in this situation? 

They'd need to have been pretty fucking special guard rails...

In fact they may have caused more injury to the person that got flicked off the side by pinning them against the stbd guard rails until they failed. 

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29 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Unreal! So amazing to see the same video 3 times in the same thread. Pretty sure you'll be in line for some of award.

Does this mean I don't get to sit at the cool kid's table in the cafeteria any more?

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I'm not sure I follow the reason why rigs would clash, Both boats would reduce their heeling angle when bearing away. 

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5 hours ago, lostmydetailsagain said:

Problem is it takes a minute or two before your hel input (might) have any affect. And easing your main relatively quick isn't without danger either. That is also why each boat has a safety boat

You can see the port tack boat helmsman spinning the wheel like crazy - but those boats just don't turn.   A better question is where the bowman is on the port tack boat.  Those genoas are immense and not having someone to watch your blind spot seems crazy to me - I've been in a number of exactly that type of collision and in a ton of close calls where the port tack boat doesn't even know the starboard tacker is there.

 

For all we know, the inexperienced people onboard might have been told to go below immediately.  Or they could have been grabbing extra life jackets when they saw the MOB.  Or, Or, Or......

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1 hour ago, LionIsland said:

Good idea.
Call it 40m. 

That means you’re  asking them, in affect, to keep off  atleast a boat length. 
Doesn’t sound unreasonable considering what’s at stake and how big n heavy those things are. 
Sure, probably a bit hard to police but how often do these things race and if you take a picture of a give way boat obviously inside that zone then they should wake up.
 

Almost incomprehensibly lucky the lack of injuries if those reports are right. 

In superyacht racing there is a 40m rule (which is where the Pantanius sponsored range finders come in, 2 on each boat and 1 dedicated person for comms with other boats). 39meters will get you flicked from the race in the fastest hearing you will ever enjoy in the room.

1 hour ago, NZK said:

This rule is typically enforced quite strictly by each of the boats as it can be used tactically...there's usually at least one person with a distance scope keeping track

But today's 100fters are more manoeuvrable which is why you have more superyacht events that allow a certain number of boats to run fleet starts and do away with the 40m rule and staggered starts. See for instance the performance class at Palma Superyacht Cup or the maxi racer class at Maxi Worlds.

For the Js, the last 5-or so years they have raced against each other without the limitation in the pre-start and in some cases without any limitations around the course. When it comes to a crossing and you have 6-7secs per boat length but also about 60seconds before any helm input leads to a reaction (so that is 10 boat lengths). In theory you only have to react (and not anticipate) so after the other boat completed the tack you need to be at least 11 boat lengths away to deal with the situation. And now we put 4 boats on a relatively short line.. As written earlier in the thread, unfortunately it was due and the limited damage to people is a positive.

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Millionaires and their court states clashing fake vintage toys at each other. Made me laugh. Almost. I'm sorry for those who got hurt. There phone most be ringing constantly with lawyers offering their services...

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2 hours ago, NZK said:

They'd need to have been pretty fucking special guard rails...

In fact they may have caused more injury to the person that got flicked off the side by pinning them against the stbd guard rails until they failed. 

Yeah, just like auto racing - it's better to get thrown clear.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah, just like auto racing - it's better to get thrown clear.

But wtf is the guy doing... why is he running aft to try and stop the incoming missile with his head?
Its not like he had his back turned, he literally ran for the impact? 

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I am really surprised how so little damage has occurred on the deck. I guess the bow profile of the J allowed it to ride over the stern, pressing the boat down and  dissipating energy along the way. If this was a boat with a blunt bow, it would probably shorten her by a few feet. 

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1 hour ago, Omer said:

I am really surprised how so little damage has occurred on the deck. I guess the bow profile of the J allowed it to ride over the stern, pressing the boat down and  dissipating energy along the way. If this was a boat with a blunt bow, it would probably shorten her by a few feet. 

i would like to see the structure inside.... can't imagine it all stayed in one piece with 130 metric tonnes pushing down...

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13 hours ago, jackolantern said:

There was a T-Bone between two Swan(??) 80s (100s??) at a superyacht regatta in 2011 that left one with a 6 foot by 4 foot triangle of damage in the side of the boat. That was probably pretty close to this one and is part of the reason why Non-J Class superyachts use a pursuit starting style (with Pantaneus-sponsored laser rangefinders on each yacht) now. 

Have to imagine the insurance companies will mandate some changes to the J Class Rules in order to continue insuring these beasts after this. 

Edit: Found that Photo https://www.sail-world.com/USA/Maxi-Yacht-Rolex-Cup--Illusion-and-Kora-crash-images-by-Ingrid-Abery/-88266?source=google

Alt_IMG_27911.jpg

Alt_IMG_28821.jpg

Alt_IMG_28761.jpg

Swan regattas used to require min $2.0 million in liability insurance years ago

.  Probably 5x that now

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J classes in the day were built to realtively heavy scantlings (Lloyds) and the new boats have to be built in a similar fashion. These are not lightweight carbon eggshells...

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4 hours ago, JL92S said:

Just a racing incident, anyone who thinks you can spin the wheel of a J and it will react even with the main eased (like it was) and the headsail sheeted on (like it was) then they misunderstand. An incident like this has been a long time in the making and it will probably happen again one day, it’s just what happens when you sail 135+ foot keelboats like you’d sail an Etchells. I think the last time two J’s came together was Ranger and Velsheda around 10 years ago which was a port starboard and the 2 boats bashed mid ships and bounced off one another. 
 

My opinion on the incident (probably doesn’t need anymore I know) is that Svea May have intended to tack in front but the boat tacking at the beginning of the video meant Svea Was committed to ducking 2 boats and couldn’t get the bow down in time. It’s very easy to say the other boat should have born away to lessen the blow but then you’ll likely clash rigs which could arguably be far more dangerous for the crew on deck. 
C9D9A866-24D9-4752-8627-AD607565D02A.thumb.jpeg.dad7b827b57f6cc8e1d2ee0171a95582.jpeg
A740A570-A32D-4FF5-A98E-FF1EE92CB24C.thumb.jpeg.029fe0f696b018be85b85d141b0cb433.jpeg

AACBB92E-C3D3-41F5-8949-38E7579E2D71.thumb.jpeg.e4939fb4b95aa132d12d2713812c14c6.jpeg

DC728789-E7A5-4657-A15C-91157C0AB1EC.thumb.jpeg.66c4ba1a5452c0cfd6472f39734e82fe.jpeg

 

I think the filming boat ( leeward port)  was closer than it appears and the ww port boat waited too long and decided they couldnt duck them  and tried to squeeze through. Of course as people said this fate was all decided probably 2 minutes  or so before the crash and  probably all they could do was pray at that point.    

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Just to be awkward, looks to me like port was ducking and clear, when starboard put down her helm to tack, causing the collision.  16.2 against starboard.  But would like to see some different camera angles.

The guy who was  smacked by a 200 ton boat going at 10 mph: Darwin award nominee.

 

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This clip (credit Pietro Cardinetti) is in a higher resolution. It looks like the MOB is running back to help someone else get out of the way and ends up getting literally speared by 150 tons of Svea doing 10 knots or a bit more... Lucky to get away with just a few broken ribs...

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I understand that the chaps are a bit miffed that they just finished sorting things out and now she's all fucked up again. Still, that's yacht racing. Someone will pay them all to make her nice again 

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hulshape looks somehow different...

 

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definitely structural damage looking at the deck... (humps and bumps not just at the outer end of the deck):

 

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

I think the filming boat ( leeward port)  was closer than it appears and the ww port boat waited too long and decided they couldnt duck them  and tried to squeeze through. Of course as people said this fate was all decided probably 2 minutes  or so before the crash and  probably all they could do was pray at that point.    

2 minutes?

You make them sound like supertankers.

From the sailing film I've seen those boats respond pretty quickly - certainly don't appear so ponderous that they couldn't have been able to luff up before the collision.

Or am I missing something.

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Was an anchor scratched in this incident?

No?

Then why the fuss?

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

2 minutes?

You make them sound like supertankers.

From the sailing film I've seen those boats respond pretty quickly - certainly don't appear so ponderous that they couldn't have been able to luff up before the collision.

Or am I missing something.

Just an opinon. 
The decision process was 2 minutes earlier. They don't take 2 mins to turn.  By the time the video starts it was pretty much too late  
They got themselves boxed in, they should have prepared to  duck 2 minutes earlier.  HIndsight is 20/20  
There was no place to luff up. A fourth boat was to windward of them on stb .  
Eventually they couldn't duck and their only hope was to fall off and that required the leeward boat to do the same, and they weren't. They were racing.
Need to see more angles but of course they were too tightly bunched.  They need immense amount of room to manouver and don't turn quickly (enough)
and need alot more crew work than just turning the wheel. Someone isn't getting their bonus. 
 

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Just now, Black Sox said:

Was an anchor scratched in this incident?

No?

Then why the fuss?

Yeah just a couple $100k is all, but being taken out of action for a while at the start of the season will hurt more.    
Maybe he has another in a shed somewhere he can use . 

 

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35 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Just an opinon. 
The decision process was 2 minutes earlier. They don't take 2 mins to turn.  By the time the video starts it was pretty much too late  
They got themselves boxed in, they should have prepared to  duck 2 minutes earlier.  HIndsight is 20/20  
There was no place to luff up. A fourth boat was to windward of them on stb .  
Eventually they couldn't duck and their only hope was to fall off and that required the leeward boat to do the same, and they weren't. They were racing.
Need to see more angles but of course they were too tightly bunched.  They need immense amount of room to manouver and don't turn quickly (enough)
and need alot more crew work than just turning the wheel. Someone isn't getting their bonus. 
 

Why am I not surprised that you come across as completely un-knowledgable about sailing?

There was MORE than enough room for SVEA, on port,  to fall off and go behind the starboard tacker.  The helm, and possibly whomever was calling tactics, fucked up.  They either didn't see the starboard tacker, or just totally misjudged when to fall off.  Based on how quickly the helm was being put down (and you can see the boat begin to fall off fairly quickly) I'm betting they didn't realize the starboard boat was there until they saw him poke across their bow.

It's pretty simple - if you've actually raced enough to understand it.

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Quote from Ken Read at start of the regatta...

“Ken Read, President at North Sails and Svea afterguard member asserts, "Listen it is completely crazy how we are sailing these boats now. This used to be a very cautious world. But just look at these boats. They are monsters. And it ain't a cautious world now. And all but one have owner-drivers.”

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I know f/all about these boats other than being on a RC Authorized Photoboat in Newport a few years ago. They were unbelievably aggressive at the marks. One boat hit the 72'  NYYC Committee Boat and nearly took out a few guests. The bow went into and across the interior aft open salon. I saw a video that the boat owner shared with me. Crazy.

 

I have some photos from that event. Posted them here.

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56 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Why am I not surprised that you come across as completely un-knowledgable about sailing?

There was MORE than enough room for SVEA, on port,  to fall off and go behind the starboard tacker.  The helm, and possibly whomever was calling tactics, fucked up.  They either didn't see the starboard tacker, or just totally misjudged when to fall off.  Based on how quickly the helm was being put down (and you can see the boat begin to fall off fairly quickly) I'm betting they didn't realize the starboard boat was there until they saw him poke across their bow.

It's pretty simple - if you've actually raced enough to understand it.

Bullshit 
And there are not enough view angles to make any of those determinations
The tactician and helm  'fucked up'.. Well,, NO SHIT SHERLOCK!  They fucked up long before the video starts and were overlapped. 
Listen to carcrash genius. 

 

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So when racing these boats have designated "RRS safety officers" who are supposed to communicate over VHF with the other boats, so everyone knows what everyone else is doing - to avoid this kind of incident.

on the regatta website, they posted a "compliance form" that each boat was supposed to file

in that document.., they say that in the past, some of the RRS safety officers have not had enough knowledge of the RRS.., and so they are asking the boats to certify that their safety officer has experience.., and knows the RRS.

here is some of the text

Quote

  BACKGROUND:

It has become apparent in recent superyacht regattas that some designated ‘Safety Officers’ did not have the required qualifications or experience for that crew position; specifically a thorough understanding of The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS). Additionally, it was revealed that in some instances no member of the afterguard had an adequate level of experience and expertise with the RRS, leading to unexpected encounters and undesired outcomes on the racecourse.

 

http://superyachtchallengeantigua.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/SYCA-2020-RRS-Safety-Afterguard-Member-Compliance.pdf

 

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Ya gotta remember these things don't even have rudders, just trim tabs on the back edge of their only under water foil.

So for the first small turn of the helm simply increases lift, little or no direction change. Ya gotta get a fair amount of that rather slim (high aspect ratio) rudder out of the rather thick boundary layer before directional change happens. Lots of drivers think the helm works like in a car, with more-or-less linear response. That is not what happens with only a trim tab and no rudder.

On old fashioned boats like these, sail trim has more to do with direction than the helm. If the trimmers all stand up and look at what is happening at the bow, instead of easing sheets smoothly and very quickly, this happens. Few people are automatically going to focus on the ease, rather than looking at the commotion ahead. Few trimmers are used to the responsibility for steering, instead of only boat speed and height control.

So yet another failure by the port tack afterguard: got keep all the trimmers focused on their actual job (steering as well as speed and height), as well as keeping the driver with proper situational awareness.

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57 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Few trimmers are used to the responsibility for steering, instead of only boat speed and height control.

Usually the crew are all very good pro's that get flown in to race, so I doubt they were all looking around rubber necking. For years Velsheda would race with a full complement of Team NZ sailors.

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I'd like to see the red hoist from the other side , must of been very close to the mark .....

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7 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Usually the crew are all very good pro's that get flown in to race, so I doubt they were all looking around rubber necking. For years Velsheda would race with a full complement of Team NZ sailors.

Yes of course but they are taking orders to ease or trim depending on where they are going. if the guy giving directions puckers  up it’s not their fault. 

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4 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

Just to be awkward, looks to me like port was ducking and clear, when starboard put down her helm to tack, causing the collision. 

The guy who was  smacked by a 200 ton boat going at 10 mph: Darwin award nominee.

 

1) I agree to that. Almost. If the stb boat held course it still doesn’t look like port tacker was going to get pulled away all the away in time for a clear duck. But agree that the stb tacker certainly panicked and suddenly turning up ended up making the situation worse. Pulling away might have avoided impact. 
Of course the port tacker shouldn’t be crossing that close. They’re not Lasers. I’d like to think it was just a fuck up and not a smart arse move gone wrong. Big difference. 
2) I think you’ve been a bit harsh on the MOB. It looked like he tried to get out of the way and got taken out as the arse of the boat he was on moved quickly towards the incoming bow as Panick Pete on the helm decided or was told  to suddenly helm up. (And I’m not saying I might not have made the same error in the split second, well, about 4 seconds by my count).

That incoming bow really whooped him good. Could’ve been a much different outcome. Getting pinned under that bow as it ground over the deck... urgggh! 
I’ve had occassion recently to think, rules aside, if you hit someone with your bow you’re probably largely at fault,  most times. You’ve hit them, right? 

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41 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Yes of course but they are taking orders to ease or trim depending on where they are going. if the guy giving directions puckers  up it’s not their fault. 

Someone certainly misjudged or completely missed something in the lead up. Thinking someone puckered up is a reach to far in my opinion. One of these guys saved my life during a cluster fuck, not of my making, by staying calm and not getting distracted.

There is a reason they get paid the money, rubber necking is not one of them. Or I am wrong and they got the dud for this race.

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