Sign in to follow this  
Ajax

Sealing out exhaust gasses

Recommended Posts

Ok, I have my new exhaust mixing elbow from the exhaustelbow.com guy.  This thing is very thick walled, indestructium.

When threading it into my exhaust flange, it points way off at the wrong angle when it bottoms out. I need to back it out 1/2 of a turn to get it lined up with my muffler. What is a good, reliable hi-temp sealant that I can use on the threads? Or do you guys have another idea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Permatex makes one you can get online or at a autoparts place most likely.  I would probably use the muffler/exhaust sealant you can get at Napa or O'Riley.  It's a white paste that hardens.  Have used it on problematic expansion joints on generators.  It can deal with a imperfect fit and it sets up.  I would be concerned about the normal thread sealant holding if you have to back it off a bit from tight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exhaust soot should do the trick. Brass shim stock? I'm guessing until someone who actually knows replies....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SASSAFRASS said:

Permatex makes one you can get online or at a autoparts place most likely.  I would probably use the muffler/exhaust sealant you can get at Napa or O'Riley.  It's a white paste that hardens.  Have used it on problematic expansion joints on generators.  It can deal with a imperfect fit and it sets up.  I would be concerned about the normal thread sealant holding if you have to back it off a bit from tight.

This stuff?

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/automotive-rv-and-marine/auto-tools-and-maintenance/auto-body-repair/80355?store=16663&gclid=Cj0KCQjwx7zzBRCcARIsABPRscP_dIFXAqrNsJepdVRaKd2baiEj0dy9MDPsNqNEnnUeoteXTKGM1ooaAkIiEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think I used some kind of paste from NAPA. You probably already know that new exhaust piping is likely to smoke for a while, even though it's not leaking.  Manufacturing oils & such.  An unpleasant couple of days with all the hatches open and fans blazing.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that you shouldn't use the sealant but does it bottom out on a seat in the flange or does it just screw in until it runs out of thread? If the former, you could fashion a metal gasket with a thickness of about half the thread pitch that it can bottom out on instead. If the latter, you could find or fabricate a lock ring that threads onto the elbow that you'd tighten at the right orientation.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the locking ring would be better than a stopper down in the threads. In any case, I came up with a different solution for other reasons which I will elucidate-

The fellow made the fitting longer than my previous one. As a result, it also interferes with the heat exchanger beneath it. I can extend it past the HX or I can cut it shorter. I'd cut it but like I said, this thing is indestructible. I literally don't have a saw or blade tough enough on hand.

I bought a close nipple and an iron union and extended it past the HX.  The combination of the close nipple and the union allowed me to get everything vapor-tight and also in the proper orientation. I don't even have to use the Permatex if I don't want to.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should still use a sealant on the threads.  Exhaust gases will work there way into dry threads and erode it over time.

As below, high temp thread tape would be fine.

There are all sorts of different scenarios where different methods of sealing tapered pipe threads are preferred, it all depends on the material and application. No material is ideal for all applications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I think the locking ring would be better than a stopper down in the threads. In any case, I came up with a different solution for other reasons which I will elucidate-

The fellow made the fitting longer than my previous one. As a result, it also interferes with the heat exchanger beneath it. I can extend it past the HX or I can cut it shorter. I'd cut it but like I said, this thing is indestructible. I literally don't have a saw or blade tough enough on hand.

I bought a close nipple and an iron union and extended it past the HX.  The combination of the close nipple and the union allowed me to get everything vapor-tight and also in the proper orientation. I don't even have to use the Permatex if I don't want to.

 

I dunno why people love to smear goop on things, some atavistic pleasure maybe. I always use thread tape. The cheap stuff is good for at least a couple hundred PSI and a couple hundred degrees, but there are higher pressure (which you don't really need) and higher temp versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Gasoila-Density-Performance-Temperature-Stainless/dp/B008HPVX4M/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=HN9NwHqh2AOJJlMYsTKbaA&hsa_cr_id=1269045250401&ref_=sb_s_sparkle

This stuff good up to 650F which is almost certainly more than you need) is also available at auto parts stores although the counter guys will almost certainly try to sell you a can of goop instead.

Added benefit, makes it easier to take apart later.

Start wrapping it about 1/4 thread above the end, wrap in the direction of tightening, do not let any part of the tape intrude into the fluid pathway, don't wrap more than two layers thick. Not following these simple rules is one reason why so many technicians either don't trust tape or are barred from using it (I snatched it away from a few of my guys who proved resistant to following instructions).

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Steam Flyer I don't love goop.  These threads are before the water injection point. Doesn't dry diesel exhaust get much hotter than 650F degrees?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ajax said:

@Steam Flyer I don't love goop.  These threads are before the water injection point. Doesn't dry diesel exhaust get much hotter than 650F degrees?

 

Ah so, didn't realize it was before the water injection point. Diesel cylinder heads go up to 1500F, maybe higher.

Unless it's under lagging, the header and exhaust piping won't get half that hot, but it's still going to be exposed to gas at up to just below combustion temp...

Let me see if I can find something that will go hotter.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lubrication does make it much easier to tighten up those pipe fittings.  But for conscientious objectors, I suspect exhaust corrosion will weld the darned thing rock solid before long. We just hope it's welded with no leaks.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the goop is good for 2000F degrees, continuous, I think. But, I don't need to use any goop because I got the nipple, union and stainless fitting tight enough without it.

I need a short length of exhaust hose. West Marine says they'll be open in the morning, so I had them cut me a section and they'll hand it out the door when I get there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't worry too much, just make sure you double check it after it's been hot awhile for leaks and the union is still tight. CO is the silent killer, we have the battery type sensors below, mostly because of the diesel stove but also covers if there is a small engine leak.  You may curse yourself years down the road when you try to take it apart...

If you have a Temp gun shoot the exhaust manifold exit flange when running around at full load and see what you get.  I doubt it will ever be much over 600F, but one way or the other you will get a accurate temp if you decide to mess with it later.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Yeah, the goop is good for 2000F degrees, continuous, I think. But, I don't need to use any goop because I got the nipple, union and stainless fitting tight enough without it.

I need a short length of exhaust hose. West Marine says they'll be open in the morning, so I had them cut me a section and they'll hand it out the door when I get there.

Tape is better than goop, but goop is better than nothing IMHO.

I can't find a thread sealing tape that is rated for over 900F... some of them quote a mil-spec but I'm not looking that shit up right now. That's a non-PTFE tape with nickel, I seem to recall using thread sealing tape on some other hi-temp application but can't find it now.

Threads can leak, even tight ones, plus you'll want some anti-sieze in there if you ever plan to take it apart.... and if you plan not to, God will laugh and make you

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ajax said:

I bought a close nipple and an iron union and extended it past the HX.  

 

You mis-typed iron, right?!  But maybe OK, as this is before the injection point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Permatex copper is way better for an elbow - mufflers & tailpipes run a lot cooler than right up at the manifold.

image.png.0c1feaf1f3475017394c1a5685f24b68.png

This stuff lasted years sealing the circumferentially clamped (not threaded) joint between my turbo and mixing elbow.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jamhass said:

You mis-typed iron, right?!  But maybe OK, as this is before the injection point.

Nope.  The previous one lasted decades. Yes,  well before the injection point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Ajax said:

Yeah, the goop is good for 2000F degrees, continuous, I think. But, I don't need to use any goop because I got the nipple, union and stainless fitting tight enough without it.

I need a short length of exhaust hose. West Marine says they'll be open in the morning, so I had them cut me a section and they'll hand it out the door when I get there.

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered they would close. I need some bottom paint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 4ktsb said:

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered they would close. I need some bottom paint.

I read that the fumes from CSC Micron Extra kills coronavirus. ;)

I actually have a section of 1.5" hose. The damned exhaust elbow is 1.66" OD. I tried to stretch it over. I used a hair dryer to warm it up and some dishsoap. It goes on a for a bit and then stops, no doubt due to the wire reinforcement. I also heard the cloth jacket between layers start to tear, which means that the hose would probably fail sooner, so I simply have to step up a size. :angry: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ajax said:

Nope.  The previous one lasted decades. Yes,  well before the injection point. 

FWIW, these were iron after 36 years - after the injection point.

I replaced with the pictured S/S elbows.

 

Exhaust Fittings.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, thanks to everyone for their excellent advice, especially the reference to exhaustelbow.com.

Everything is bolted up, not leaking and in excellent condition. I've completed spring maintenance (impeller, oil change, general engine inspection) and we're tip-top. I have to say, these old Universal diesels are good engines. This fall, I'll treat her to an injector cleaning and new glow plugs.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2020 at 4:23 PM, Ajax said:

Ok, I have my new exhaust mixing elbow from the exhaustelbow.com guy.  This thing is very thick walled, indestructium.

When threading it into my exhaust flange, it points way off at the wrong angle when it bottoms out. I need to back it out 1/2 of a turn to get it lined up with my muffler. What is a good, reliable hi-temp sealant that I can use on the threads? Or do you guys have another idea?

Don’t know you project,  but the correct way to align a plumbing fitting is with s plumbing nut 

the various locking compound that I know of are heat sensitive 

 

007256DA-7F01-467D-8AAB-6C9C82A4DC9A.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2020 at 10:06 AM, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno why people love to smear goop on things, some atavistic pleasure maybe. I always use thread tape. The cheap stuff is good for at least a couple hundred PSI and a couple hundred degrees, but there are higher pressure (which you don't really need) and higher temp versions.

I never use thread tape, for normal temp fittings I use Loctite 567 if it's metal pipes or Loctite 5331 for plastic pipes (or plastic to metal). Thread tape requires too much guesstimation of how much to use to get things tight and fittings don't always 'clock' correctly. The goop compounds don't suffer from this.

For exhaust elbows the idea of having a threaded fitting exposed to high temp gases & soot etc makes me cringe. I never do that. A flat flange fitting with a gasket and studs/bolts is the long-term reliable way to go. At least you'll be able to get it apart again without destructive surgery. A threaded fitting - no bets. Chasing threads inside a corroded exhaust manifold isn't my idea of a good time.

We recently got some pretty high temp thread sealant for a rebuild job on Primus type kerosene burners. It was damn good stuff, can't for the life of me remember what it was now though. Took quite a bit of searching to find it - we used a IR gun on the threaded portion of the burners and were quite surprised at just how hot they got. Normal and even so-called high temp thread sealant wasn't going to be within spec.

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 3/17/2020 at 11:26 PM, Ajax said:

I read that the fumes from CSC Micron Extra kills coronavirus. ;)

I actually have a section of 1.5" hose. The damned exhaust elbow is 1.66" OD. I tried to stretch it over. I used a hair dryer to warm it up and some dishsoap. It goes on a for a bit and then stops, no doubt due to the wire reinforcement. I also heard the cloth jacket between layers start to tear, which means that the hose would probably fail sooner, so I simply have to step up a size. :angry: 

I hate that. Same happened to me fitting a hose to my Bukh engine except IIRC it was a really oddball size.

There was plenty of wall thickness in the elbow bit though so I clamped it to the baby boring mill and reduced it to a size where the standard 2" hose *would* fit.

IMG_1414.jpg

IMG_1409.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I never use thread tape, for normal temp fittings I use Loctite 567 if it's metal pipes or Loctite 5331 for plastic pipes (or plastic to metal). Thread tape requires too much guesstimation of how much to use to get things tight and fittings don't always 'clock' correctly. The goop compounds don't suffer from this.

For exhaust elbows the idea of having a threaded fitting exposed to high temp gases & soot etc makes me cringe. I never do that. A flat flange fitting with a gasket and studs/bolts is the long-term reliable way to go. At least you'll be able to get it apart again without destructive surgery. A threaded fitting - no bets. Chasing threads inside a corroded exhaust manifold isn't my idea of a good time.

We recently got some pretty high temp thread sealant for a rebuild job on Primus type kerosene burners. It was damn good stuff, can't for the life of me remember what it was now though. Took quite a bit of searching to find it - we used a IR gun on the threaded portion of the burners and were quite surprised at just how hot they got. Normal and even so-called high temp thread sealant wasn't going to be within spec.

FKT

I used thread tape on everything from fuel systems to hydraulic to compressed air to exotic gasses... 40+ years working on stuff involving piping and tubing. I just took a spin thru Grainger and still can't find the hi-temp tape I recall, although I didn't spend a lot of time.

Clocking can be an issue but it rarely came up on the stuff I fixed. If you 've got a couple of fittings to work with, a lot of times adjustment can be made to get it where you want with the right. Flanges can be the devil to get in alignment BTW

If properly applied, tape is more reliable than goop IMHO. However goop is a bit easier to not get inside sensitive systems... tape has to be properly applied. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've seen a guy who should have been rate as a plumber's apprentice wrap tape the wrong way, or leave some hanging off the end of the pipe into the system, or wrap dozens of times saying "THAT will seal the fucker," gorilla-ing shit into place with far too much torque, etc etc.

Corroded female threads are always an issue, often not good holding any pressure either

Great shop pics BTW  ;)

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I used thread tape on everything from fuel systems to hydraulic to compressed air to exotic gasses... 40+ years working on stuff involving piping and tubing. I just took a spin thru Grainger and still can't find the hi-temp tape I recall, although I didn't spend a lot of time.

Clocking can be an issue but it rarely came up on the stuff I fixed. If you 've got a couple of fittings to work with, a lot of times adjustment can be made to get it where you want with the right. Flanges can be the devil to get in alignment BTW

If properly applied, tape is more reliable than goop IMHO. However goop is a bit easier to not get inside sensitive systems... tape has to be properly applied. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've seen a guy who should have been rate as a plumber's apprentice wrap tape the wrong way, or leave some hanging off the end of the pipe into the system, or wrap dozens of times saying "THAT will seal the fucker," gorilla-ing shit into place with far too much torque, etc etc.

Corroded female threads are always an issue, often not good holding any pressure either

Great shop pics BTW  ;)

FB- Doug

Don't agree with the goop being easier to get inside fittings - bits of teflon tape in pneumatic tools is all too common. But you're ex-military, different requirement background.

I can scrape flanged fittings to a gas-tight seal without any gasket if I have to. That used to be a standard skill once.

You have to love a horizontal boring mill for oddball jobs. That elbow would have been a right shit to do in a lathe or standard milling machine. Possible but I was quite happy I didn't have to. Quite easy on the little Kearns HBM. Its bigger brother is in another corner of the shed.

If I'd had a threaded exhaust manifold I'd have welded up a Sched 80 stainless threaded adaptor to a flange and assumed the flanged adaptor was a permanent addition to the manifold. The disposable bits with water injection, hose attachment downstream. But that's me - I'll go to a lot of trouble to make something *once* if I'm reasonably assured that I won't have to do it twice any time soon. Up to 114 hours on the engine now with no dramas including a few hours punching into 30+ knots the other day - hoping this continues.......

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As with most things in life, in marine engineering the only thing I'm certain of is what I don't know is a hell of alot more the what I do know.  It seems like every layup period one of the venders has a new product or method that is a improvement on how we were doing things.  For pipe thread stuff in most applications we have gone to a combination of tape and a material specific sealant.  It generally elminates thread galling issues as well as as a difference in materials metal or plastic.  I was pretty pleased when I put our Spectra water maker in a few years ago.  They have a excellent instillation manual.  I have always had bad luck with plastic in plastic fittings.  They have a specific method of regular Teflon tape and so many wraps up so many threads and it worked great.  Would have saved me alot of headache and goop cleaning on past projects.  In general at work I try to always go SAE or BSPP if possible.

On a side note one of better or seemingly most effective thread sealants I have seen is the wierd ass flax the Norwiegans used to put everything together with, lots of head scratching the first time I pulled something apart with that in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

On a side note one of better or seemingly most effective thread sealants I have seen is the wierd ass flax the Norwiegans used to put everything together with, lots of head scratching the first time I pulled something apart with that in it.

My old man used to use a hemp/flax in red lead paste, IIRC. That seemed to last a long time too.

I still have a can of Stagg jointing paste around somewhere, it has to be *at least* 40 years old.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 

I hate that. Same happened to me fitting a hose to my Bukh engine except IIRC it was a really oddball size.

There was plenty of wall thickness in the elbow bit though so I clamped it to the baby boring mill and reduced it to a size where the standard 2" hose *would* fit.

IMG_1414.jpg

IMG_1409.jpg

It would be really easy to hate you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

My old man used to use a hemp/flax in red lead paste, IIRC. That seemed to last a long time too.

I still have a can of Stagg jointing paste around somewhere, it has to be *at least* 40 years old.

FKT

Coal tar, white lead paste, red lead paste. Kirdy used to ship the paint in unmarked boxes in the US. My boat sure loves it all, minus the coal tar.

Those were the days...wait a minute what were we talking about?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets not forget heating a pot of horsehide glue on the galley stove...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Crash said:

Lets not forget heating a pot of horsehide glue on the coal fired galley stove...

FTFY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading this thread made me think of carbonmonoxide dangers.  Was wondering how common CO alarms were.  I was considering buying a portable CO alarm to take with me on boats I charter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tharsheblows said:

Reading this thread made me think of carbonmonoxide dangers.  Was wondering how common CO alarms were.  I was considering buying a portable CO alarm to take with me on boats I charter.

CO doesn't hardly kill anybody, it's much safer than the flu

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tharsheblows said:

Reading this thread made me think of carbonmonoxide dangers.  Was wondering how common CO alarms were.  I was considering buying a portable CO alarm to take with me on boats I charter.

CO is a poisonous gas, heavier than air. We have a CO detector placed low in the salon. They're cheap, so why wouldn't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

CO doesn't hardly kill anybody, it's much safer than the flu

FB- Doug

It isn't one of the biggest risks we face certainly. Americans have a much greater risk of being shot.

Every year, at least 430 people die in the U.S. from accidental CO poisoning. Approximately 50,000 people in the U.S. visit the emergency department each year due to accidental CO poisoning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:
5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

CO doesn't hardly kill anybody, it's much safer than the flu

 

It isn't one of the biggest risks we face certainly. Americans have a much greater risk of being shot.

Every year, at least 430 people die in the U.S. from accidental CO poisoning. Approximately 50,000 people in the U.S. visit the emergency department each year due to accidental CO poisoning.

Mr. Tharsheblows is one of the people spreading false CV-19 info, I was pulling his chain.

Frankly if one has to ask about a CO monitor (I have one just outside the engine room) then one is unlikely to profit from the advice.

One of the most common sources of CO on small boats is the flower-pot-on-the-stove heater. Putting a clay flowerpot over an operating burner creates a disrupted air flow that generates a much higher proportion of CO than an open flame, or a flame under a cooking pot. CO is an insidious danger because it not just displaces oxygen in the blood, but binds to red blood cells and stays there.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Steam Flyer How comfortable would you be, operating a propane heater on a low setting with a hatch cracked for ventilation, while sleeping, with a CO detector installed?

Still a definitive "NO" or...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ajax said:

@Steam Flyer How comfortable would you be, operating a propane heater on a low setting with a hatch cracked for ventilation, while sleeping, with a CO detector installed?

Still a definitive "NO" or...?

Is it designed as a heater with a genuine UL sticker? I'd be fine with it, safety-wise. More worried about it falling over than CO.

A lot of small boat sailors have advocated "the flower pot trick" ie putting a clay flower pot upside down over a stove burner; the idea is that the pot heats up and diffuses heat plus slows the rise of hot gas from the burner and warms the cabin more effectively for the same fuel burn. Unfortunately it's also creating a combustion chamber which is very likely to generate a much higher proportion of CO versus CO2.

The problem with open propane flame IMHO is that it needs a draft from outside air (cold!) and it also generates H2O into the atmosphere which condenses on everything and makes the cabin wet & clammy.

A CO alarm doesn't totally eliminate the problem, but they're cheap insurance. I'd recommend getting one, shucks I have one! Mine has a false positive alarm about every two or three months, which is a PITA but at least I know it will wake me up!

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Steam Flyer Oh, I've definitely buying one to at least protect against engine CO while people are resting below during motoring. I just wanted to know your thoughts on the propane heater.

Mine is a Mr. Buddy 2-burner model. They are UL approved. I would only run it at anchor, not underway when it could tip over. I know about the condensation issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

It isn't one of the biggest risks we face certainly. Americans have a much greater risk of being shot.

Every year, at least 430 people die in the U.S. from accidental CO poisoning. Approximately 50,000 people in the U.S. visit the emergency department each year due to accidental CO poisoning.

This study of US sailing fatalities says CO poisoning is responsible for 1.5% of sailing fatalities (Table 7)

If that 430/yr number is correct.., that must be significantly less than 1.5% of all US accidental deaths per year.., making CO poisoning relatively more significant on sailboats than on land.

https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(15)00339-7/fulltext

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CO Experts makes an excellent little alarm which is extremely sensitive, compact and loud.  I use it at home, in the plane and on the boat.  It gives a warning before others even start to indicate a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ajax said:

@Steam Flyer Oh, I've definitely buying one to at least protect against engine CO while people are resting below during motoring. I just wanted to know your thoughts on the propane heater.

Mine is a Mr. Buddy 2-burner model. They are UL approved. I would only run it at anchor, not underway when it could tip over. I know about the condensation issue.

The manual I found online says:

This heater requires a vent area of 9 square inches (example 3” x 3” opening) minimum for adequate ventilation during operation.

https://www.mrheater.com/downloads/dl/file/id/1085/portable_buddy_heater_manual_usa_2017.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Salazar said:

The manual I found online says:

This heater requires a vent area of 9 square inches (example 3” x 3” opening) minimum for adequate ventilation during operation.

https://www.mrheater.com/downloads/dl/file/id/1085/portable_buddy_heater_manual_usa_2017.pdf

Yup. Any one of my opening ports would meet that requirement but also let me keep most of the heat in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Non-vented heaters cause a ton of condensation IMHO. We had a wood stove on the boat we had when I was a kid and that was awesome. It dried the cabin instead of adding moisture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Mr. Tharsheblows is one of the people spreading false CV-19 info, I was pulling his chain.

Frankly if one has to ask about a CO monitor (I have one just outside the engine room) then one is unlikely to profit from the advice.

One of the most common sources of CO on small boats is the flower-pot-on-the-stove heater. Putting a clay flowerpot over an operating burner creates a disrupted air flow that generates a much higher proportion of CO than an open flame, or a flame under a cooking pot. CO is an insidious danger because it not just displaces oxygen in the blood, but binds to red blood cells and stays there.

FB- Doug

Not sure where I saw it recently but a serious test of the flowerpot thing showed it to be complete bullshit. No benefit at all.

In addition to your noted CO downside there is a significant risk of the pot exploding and spraying razor sharp (ceramic) shrapnel all over the cabin.

Glazed or unglazed made no difference.

There simply isn't enough mass to matter.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, us7070 said:

This study of US sailing fatalities says CO poisoning is responsible for 1.5% of sailing fatalities (Table 7)

If that 430/yr number is correct.., that must be significantly less than 1.5% of all US accidental deaths per year.., making CO poisoning relatively more significant on sailboats than on land.

https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(15)00339-7/fulltext

 

The real danger on a boat is opening your fly.

I saw a stat years ago that some huge proportion - like 60% or 70% of boat related male drowning victims were found with their fly down.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a boat is using solid fuel or radiant diesel for heat then it should definitely have a CO monitor.  Pretty easy for them to get back drafted and smoke out the boat. Good setups mostly eliminate it but Murphy is always watching and stuff can break stick get clogged etc.  The battery ones are so cheap there really isn't a good reason to not have one.  You can also get a mooring next to some idiot who's diesel gen is running like shit and fills your boat with exhaust at night...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Mr. Tharsheblows is one of the people spreading false CV-19 info, I was pulling his chain.

Frankly if one has to ask about a CO monitor (I have one just outside the engine room) then one is unlikely to profit from the advice.

One of the most common sources of CO on small boats is the flower-pot-on-the-stove heater. Putting a clay flowerpot over an operating burner creates a disrupted air flow that generates a much higher proportion of CO than an open flame, or a flame under a cooking pot. CO is an insidious danger because it not just displaces oxygen in the blood, but binds to red blood cells and stays there.

FB- Doug

What Steam Flyer means by "spreading false CV-19 info" is posting an optimistic prediction opinion based on the current CV-19 statistics published at:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

then disclaiming that my opinion is based entirely on the statistic being true which may be a bad assumption given that some numbers come from China and Iran.

A pretty tame opinion on the whole.  But I get it, dissent is rarely welcomed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

What Steam Flyer means by "spreading false CV-19 info" is posting an optimistic prediction opinion based on the current CV-19 statistics published at:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

then disclaiming that my opinion is based entirely on the statistic being true which may be a bad assumption given that some numbers come from China and Iran.

A pretty tame opinion on the whole.  But I get it, dissent is rarely welcomed.

No, posting "optimistic prediction" is not the same as saying what you have been, bullshit about it being harmless. That's not dissent, it's destructive bullshit on the level of telling parents to give loaded guns to their toddlers.

FB- Doug

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or fucking a streetwalker bareback.

"She looks healthy".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

No, posting "optimistic prediction" is not the same as saying what you have been, bullshit about it being harmless. That's not dissent, it's destructive bullshit on the level of telling parents to give loaded guns to their toddlers.

FB- Doug

No, you are absolutely wrong about that.  Providing my opinion based on the published numbers of confirmed cases and deaths with the disclaimer that my opinion depends on the accuracy of the data is not equivalent to "spreading false information." 

And I have never said Cova-19 was "harmless."  I said it doesn't look like its on pace to kill more people than the flu typically does (which is between 12,000-60,000 according to the CDC). 

And further, it now seems more likely that my prediction will turn out to be true given that studies treating the Covid-19 with hydroxychloroquine and other antivirals have shown encouraging early results.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tharsheblows said:

....

And further, it now seems more likely that my prediction will turn out to be true given that studies treating the Covid-19 with hydroxychloroquine and other antivirals have shown encouraging early results.

 

 Oh yeah, encouraging results

Arizona man dies after ingesting chloroquine in hopes of treating coronavirus

Maybe there's a loaded gun in the drawer that Mommy will let you play with....
 
FB- Doug
 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 Oh yeah, encouraging results

Arizona man dies after ingesting chloroquine in hopes of treating coronavirus

Maybe there's a loaded gun in the drawer that Mommy will let you play with....
 
FB- Doug
 

 

 

Yes, I saw that.  He was a moron.  He attempted to treat himself without a doctor.  Chloroquine and  hydroxychloroquine and many other medicines that we take to treat various illnesses are poisons that if taken in the incorrect dosage will kill us.

However, chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been used for many years to treat malaria patients and when used properly they have known acceptable safety profiles. 

The new and encouraging news is that when they are used in conjunction with an antibiotic, those with COVID-19 have shown significant improvement.  This could reduce the already unexpected low death toll. 

Fauci, who I respect very much, originally predicted between 200,000 and 1.7 million deaths in the US alone.  We are simply not on pace for that.  Look at the graphs.  This is good news.  It shouldn't make you angry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Arizona couple took aquarium cleaner that has chloroquine in it,  in an attempt to self medicate.  They weren't even sick as I read it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ajax said:

The Arizona couple took aquarium cleaner that has chloroquine in it,  in an attempt to self medicate.  They weren't even sick as I read it. 

 

Not before, anyhow. How very Darwinian.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Darwin appears to be making hay while the sun shines these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this