964racer

Looking for boat suggestions

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Hello--

New member here.  Getting back into sailing again. Looking for a boat (used) I can single-hand raise and cruise in Bay Area and SoCal. Something maybe 32-35' range. Interior has to be more complete than a sail locker as I want to cruise channel islands reasonably comfortably -  plus interested in  single-hand ocean racing - who knows  - maybe eventual transpac.   Price range - 50K

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can look for ?  I sailed a Capri 30 a long time ago but it seemed too light/fragile (but it was a nice boat to sail)..

 

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18158__2020-03-18_4813_18158202003183015 30-FT OLSON 911SE, 1988

In the Latitude 38 classifieds.  Not my boat - saw the ad today.

These are excellent boats for what you want to do.

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Maybe  not easy if you are looking for comfort and ocean races or SHTP both.  I do not know about J boat but sounds very solid.

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1 hour ago, cpt_757 said:

Maybe  not easy if you are looking for comfort and ocean races or SHTP both.  I do not know about J boat but sounds very solid.

Some of the race boat interiors look pretty spartan (day sailing only).  I would like a boat that at least as a usable head/sink shower, stove, sea bunk, I'm finding it hard to find boats that aren't too thrashed (yet sellers/brokers seem to still want a lot of money for them.).

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46 minutes ago, 964racer said:

Some of the race boat interiors look pretty spartan (day sailing only).  I would like a boat that at least as a usable head/sink shower, stove, sea bunk, I'm finding it hard to find boats that aren't too thrashed (yet sellers/brokers seem to still want a lot of money for them.).

Wait a few months during which nothing gets sold because of the pandemic; it will be a buyer's market.

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12 hours ago, BobJ said:
18158__2020-03-18_4813_18158202003183015 30-FT OLSON 911SE, 1988

In the Latitude 38 classifieds.  Not my boat - saw the ad today.

These are excellent boats for what you want to do.

That was the first boat that came to my mind.

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Thank You..Looking into the Olson...

Also What about the J/30 ?  they are a -lot- less expensive than the J/32 and supposed to be fun to sail.    Anyone know if they have gone to Hawaii ?

There is also the express 34 - any opinions ?

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J/30 has good headroom and a decent rating.  However the outboard rudder gives it a heavy helm - tiring in heavier conditions and tough for an autopilot.  Also they're getting old now and the interiors may not be what you want.  J/32s are great - if you don't mind a wheel in a 32'er.  Amazing interiors for their size.  Mast is way forward which limits headsail options.

Express 34 - old now and very few nice ones around.  Masthead symmetric kite which might be a handful shorthhanded.  So-so rating.

I'd look at the J/32 if you can find one.  Well worth the higher cost IMO.

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I'll keep my eye out or J/32's.  There are a few on the market in the US that somewhat near my price range (maybe a bit higher), but none for sale in California, but I notice in Latitude a lot of boats recently came on the market. I'm not sure if that is a stock market phenomena or the usual flux as I have not been in the market for along time.

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I love the J-32 and if fits 90% of your brief, but they are hamstrung when racing off the wind, due to there small J dimension, and small fractional hoist.  Equals pretty small chute for a boat it's size, and has a hard time sailing to its rating off the wind.  Any production Maxi-MORC boat would be good.  Olsen 911, Santana 3030 PC or RC (not GP), S2 9.1.  Maybe a Frers 33?  But they are almost all East Coast Boats.  An Ericson 34-2 is an option, can easily sail to its rating, but most are purely cruisers, so some coin would be needed to equip it for racing.  Bene First 310 would also work ( I have one in SOCAL), but US version set up as cruiser as well...Maybe an older J/105 if you can live with less than standing headroom?  Olsen 34 or Express 34 would qualify...Later model J-30s 84+ with cruiser interior and cockpit would fit.   Ranger 33 would leave alot of room in the budget for new sails, etc...C&C 99 just outside of the top of your budget, but in today's world, who knows?

If your willing to go back to the IOR era, C&C 33 and 34 are also options that leave alot of budget for gear and sails.  Or an Ericson 33...(the Ron Holland IOR 3/4 ton design)...Or even an earlier CCA style boat like an older CAL 36?  They were the precursor to the famous CAL 40s....

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Crash,  There is an Ericson 33RH on the market I believe in this area.  I'd like to go look at it as soon as we are able.  I looked at a few Ericson 32-3's. They are nice boats but hard to find one that doesn't need a lot of work. I looked at an Ericson 38 that was aroudnd 59K but it was not in good shape. Lots of work needed to get it in sailing condition.  I really like the Olsen 34, not many around though....I sailed a C&C 35 for several years in the 90's ( a club boat from Channel Islands Marina) . I am not sure if it is similar to the C&C33/34.  I sailed it to Santa Cruz overnight quite a number of times (to Coches Prietos) and my recollection of it was that is was a nice boat.

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964,

The C&C 33 was a production version of the 1974 semi-custom C&C 3/4 tonner.  Used the same hull and appendages with different deck and interior. In 1977, it was replaced by the C&C 34.  Slightly bigger and heavier, with updated foils, and more cruisey, with mid boom/cabintop sheeting.  The 34 was "kinda" replaced with the C&C 35 Mk III in 82.  (Earlier 35 mk II ended production in like 74/75.  35 mk III still shows some IOR influence,  still has a mid-boom sheeting.  Then in 84, they came out with the 33 mk II.  The 33 Mk II went back to end boom sheeting, and even managed to squeeze in a double quarterberth - though not in an aft cabin...

Can you send me a link to the Ericson 33RH?  Not interested in buying, just have always liked them...they remain on my "short" list where I ever to be in the market...

Crash

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Do NOT buy a Santana 3030 and think to take it to Hawaii.  My 3030 oilcanned seriously in big winds and seas, and structural problems caused me to turn back and lose my 2004 Singlehanded TransPac.  Also scared me shitless...200 miles out and I'm down below watching the leeward hull panels pop in and out a good 6 inches every time we shouldered into a wave.

 

I'd buy a 1960's Santana, you bet. Tuna 22?  GREAT BOAT.  Santana 27, you bet. You just have to accept it for what it is.    A 1980's Schock built boat?  Not this dude. Maybe in So Cal, maybe where the winds are generally lighter, but up here? Even after I got back and repaired it, so that the hull panel didn't flex, I went down below during the trip from Monterey to Santa Cruz and everything BUT what I'd fixed was flexing. No.  Just No.

Olson 911S, yes. Santana 3030 no FFF way.

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Alan, 

I forgot about that aspect of the 30/30, :blink: and was just trying to list maxi-MORC boats that are available.  Thanks for the reminder on that aspect of the 30/30.  I only raced mine in the Chesapeake, so it wasn't an issue for me, but I concur and wouldn't likely take one offshore either....

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A Sunfast 3200, good to sail solo or with crew, enough furniture etc to cruise, fastish and not too big

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OP said 50k price range.  Any of the 3200s drop into that range yet?

 

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49 minutes ago, Crash said:

OP said 50k price range.  Any of the 3200s drop into that range yet?

 

I've seen a few online in 60 ranger, but in this economy, you never know. there were lots of boats posted last few weeks.  the money that was in my savings now worth a lot less too :-)

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I'm looking at youtube videos of a crew sailing a J/33.  I'm just wondering about single-handing.  When you tack, I guess you would sit near the front of the cockpit with a tiller extension and handle your jib winches from there ?  it looks like jib winches are pretty far forward and you have the traveler in the middle of the cockpit...

 

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There is a singlehanded J33 down here in the PSSA fleet, does just fine. I used to see a J33 out of Redondo cruising up at Santa Cruz Island. But yes, definitely more racer/cruiser than cruiser/racer.

Here is another thread on the j/33, there may be others: 

 

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2 hours ago, 964racer said:

I've seen a few online in 60 ranger, but in this economy, you never know. there were lots of boats posted last few weeks.  the money that was in my savings now worth a lot less too :-)

Unfortunately, everything is relative...

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1 hour ago, 964racer said:

I'm looking at youtube videos of a crew sailing a J/33.  I'm just wondering about single-handing.  When you tack, I guess you would sit near the front of the cockpit with a tiller extension and handle your jib winches from there ?  it looks like jib winches are pretty far forward and you have the traveler in the middle of the cockpit...

 

I love J Boats (owned a J-24 and a J/109) and raced on a J-33 for a number of years.  Great boat, and fits most of your requirements.  As stock, not set up for shorthanded sailing, and I would think you'd want a pretty good autopilot to race one shorthanded.  Outside of that, and the fact that many J boats of that era like weight on the rail, I think it would well worth looking at...

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On 3/21/2020 at 7:50 PM, 964racer said:

I'm looking at youtube videos of a crew sailing a J/33.  I'm just wondering about single-handing.  When you tack, I guess you would sit near the front of the cockpit with a tiller extension and handle your jib winches from there ?  it looks like jib winches are pretty far forward and you have the traveler in the middle of the cockpit...

 

My boat is same way as J/33.  I use tiller extension and sit in front of the traveller.  There is an interesting set up a genoa sheet, using a block and bring a sheet to windward side winch, so you usually be close to primary genoa winch. 

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56 minutes ago, cpt_757 said:

My boat is same way as J/33.  I use tiller extension and sit in front of the traveller.  There is an interesting set up a genoa sheet, using a block and bring a sheet to windward side winch, so you usually be close to primary genoa winch. 

Thanks, I'm still learning these things as most of the boats I have sailed are cruising boats with the traveler or main sheet blocks on the cabin or (in the case of the hunter) over the cockpit .  I used to sail a Capri 22 a lot in the early 90's which had a tiller and I believe the traveler most have been in the cockpit or near the transom but I forgot (was a long time ago !)

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On 3/19/2020 at 8:50 PM, 964racer said:

Thank You..Looking into the Olson...

Also What about the J/30 ?  they are a -lot- less expensive than the J/32 and supposed to be fun to sail.    Anyone know if they have gone to Hawaii ?

There is also the express 34 - any opinions ?

Did a Pac cup on a J-30 triple handed in 2010.

The boat above is about the only J-30 prepped to go including an updated rudder. Pretty sure it is not for sale, although it is in San Francisco.  However, there is a nicely sorted Archambault 27 listed in the SA classifieds that I reckon checks most of the boxes, is reasonably priced and is in the bay area.  I went aboard after the 2016 Pac Cup. Not bad at all.

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/2013-archambault-a27/

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45 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Did a Pac cup on a J-30 triple handed in 2010.

The boat above is about the only J-30 prepped to go including an updated rudder. Pretty sure it is not for sale, although it is in San Francisco.  However, there is a nicely sorted Archambault 27 listed in the SA classifieds that I reckon checks most of the boxes, is reasonably priced and is in the bay area.  I went aboard after the 2016 Pac Cup. Not bad at all.

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/2013-archambault-a27/

Agree, that A27 could be a really good choice..

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Thanks.  Looked at the A27.  I may need a little more creature comforts as the boat will serve dual purpose for cruising around the islands at some point with my wife.  I'm looking at the Olson 911 tomorrow .  Hope to be able to see a J33 (and maybe J32 if in price range) at some point if I can find one in california.

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Is now the time to have the conversation that says almost all racer/cruisers from the 1980s with balsa cored decks will have (or will have had) wet decks?  I don't mean this to put you off in anyway, but most J/30s, J-29s S2 9.1s. Olson 30s, Olson 911s, Pearson Flyers, etc, etc, from the 80s will have some moisture (from not too bad, to a lot) in the core of the deck.  Most likely by the chainplates, and on the cabin top, and along genoa tracks, and spin turning blocks, etc.  Most of that hardware was just bolted thru the deck, and has never been rebedded for its entire life.  I spent a year recoring the deck of my 1984 S2 9.1(I knew it was wet when I bought it)  It wasn't all that hard, and was totally worth it.  But just wanted you to be aware.

That said, wet balsa retains something like 95% of its shear strength, so as long as its not rotted/there is no delamination, you don't even really need to fix it (at least not right away).  Get a good survey, and decide if recoring is within the range of options you want to take on...

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

Is now the time to have the conversation that says almost all racer/cruisers from the 1980s with balsa cored decks will have (or will have had) wet decks?  I don't mean this to put you off in anyway, but most J/30s, J-29s S2 9.1s. Olson 30s, Olson 911s, Pearson Flyers, etc, etc, from the 80s will have some moisture (from not too bad, to a lot) in the core of the deck.  Most likely by the chainplates, and on the cabin top, and along genoa tracks, and spin turning blocks, etc.  Most of that hardware was just bolted thru the deck, and has never been rebedded for its entire life.  I spent a year recoring the deck of my 1984 S2 9.1(I knew it was wet when I bought it)  It wasn't all that hard, and was totally worth it.  But just wanted you to be aware.

That said, wet balsa retains something like 95% of its shear strength, so as long as its not rotted/there is no delamination, you don't even really need to fix it (at least not right away).  Get a good survey, and decide if recoring is within the range of options you want to take on...

Yes, thanks for mentioning that. I would worry if the deck was wet near something like a chainplate  that would cause a de-masting of the boat in the middle of the pacific  :-).  I'm looking at a late Olson 911 tomorrow (from the docs), but I'll ask the owner and I'm assuming a surveyor with a moisture detector could find it if I continue to be interested.

I worry about hull moisture.  One of my friends had a beautiful Crealock 37 which he bought new from Pacific seacraft.  I think early 80's.  As you probably know PS is/was a highly regarded builder.  It was an expensive boat.  By, early 90's, it was full of blisters. He had to have all the blisters removed and the hull re-coated. At that time, I remember them spending around 10K to fix that and saw the boat in the yard for months.  In this case, I don't think it was a core/composite process, I think it was just the type of resin or glass that was used (I forgot the explanation).

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9 hours ago, 964racer said:

Yes, thanks for mentioning that. I would worry if the deck was wet near something like a chainplate  that would cause a de-masting of the boat in the middle of the pacific  :-).  I'm looking at a late Olson 911 tomorrow (from the docs), but I'll ask the owner and I'm assuming a surveyor with a moisture detector could find it if I continue to be interested.

I worry about hull moisture.  One of my friends had a beautiful Crealock 37 which he bought new from Pacific seacraft.  I think early 80's.  As you probably know PS is/was a highly regarded builder.  It was an expensive boat.  By, early 90's, it was full of blisters. He had to have all the blisters removed and the hull re-coated. At that time, I remember them spending around 10K to fix that and saw the boat in the yard for months.  In this case, I don't think it was a core/composite process, I think it was just the type of resin or glass that was used (I forgot the explanation).

Where is the boat located, mid-west? Need moisture test?

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9 hours ago, 964racer said:

Yes, thanks for mentioning that. I would worry if the deck was wet near something like a chainplate  that would cause a de-masting of the boat in the middle of the pacific  :-).  I'm looking at a late Olson 911 tomorrow (from the docs), but I'll ask the owner and I'm assuming a surveyor with a moisture detector could find it if I continue to be interested.

I worry about hull moisture.  One of my friends had a beautiful Crealock 37 which he bought new from Pacific seacraft.  I think early 80's.  As you probably know PS is/was a highly regarded builder.  It was an expensive boat.  By, early 90's, it was full of blisters. He had to have all the blisters removed and the hull re-coated. At that time, I remember them spending around 10K to fix that and saw the boat in the yard for months.  In this case, I don't think it was a core/composite process, I think it was just the type of resin or glass that was used (I forgot the explanation).

The later Olson 911s built by Ericson had a solid hull, so that would eliminate the concern of hull core moisture.  Still have a cored deck, but less to worry about anyway...

Bottom blisters are typically caused by water penetrating layers of outer hull laminate...see attached links for more info:

https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/Gelcoat-Blisters-Diagnosis-Repair-and-Prevention.pdf

https://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/blister-repair.asp

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There is a sweet J/33 in Seattle for sale and even with shipping to get it to CA way under your price point. Lots of new sails on it too.  

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I had a J/33 before my J/92.  It was indeed a sweet boat that sailed well to its rating, even singlehanded.  I scared the crap out of myself a few times coming back under the Gate with its masthead kite, so when I decided to stick with singlehanding I sold it and bought the J/92, which I owned for 16 years.

Is the J/33 in Seattle the late Jim Tallet's "Zapped"?  He did the Singlehanded TransPac on it in 2002 and 2004.

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2 hours ago, BobJ said:

I had a J/33 before my J/92.  It was indeed a sweet boat that sailed well to its rating, even singlehanded.  I scared the crap out of myself a few times coming back under the Gate with its masthead kite, so when I decided to stick with singlehanding I sold it and bought the J/92, which I owned for 16 years.

Is the J/33 in Seattle the late Jim Tallet's "Zapped"?  He did the Singlehanded TransPac on it in 2002 and 2004.

I will ask. I was in touch with the broker and the total trucking cost was around 10k including yard charges on both ends so I lost interest . I’ll checkout the specs on the J/92. I’m learning.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, 964racer said:

 I was in touch with the broker and the total trucking cost was around 10k including yard charges on both ends so I lost interest

Doesn't appear that you are a serious buyer who would contact a number of boat transport outfits for quotes.

You are just another tire kicker.

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1 hour ago, marcus brutus said:

Doesn't appear that you are a serious buyer who would contact a number of boat transport outfits for quotes.

You are just another tire kicker.

Why can't you be a serious buyer, and take several months to research and decide which boat is the best fit for you?  America has this crazy notion that if you are not buying today, right now, immediately, then you are not serious.  I've boat 6 boats so far.  Its always been a months long process.  I've bought something like 17 cars in my life, and again, those have all been months long processes.  Every salesman/broker who dismissed me as not serious, lost a sale in the end.

964 is being smart.  He's been out of sailing for some time, and is coming back to it.  And learning and researching....and going to look at the first boat today, if I'm not mistaken.  Time is on his side, why does he need to be any more "serious" at this stage?

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9 hours ago, 964racer said:

I will ask. I was in touch with the broker and the total trucking cost was around 10k including yard charges on both ends so I lost interest . I’ll checkout the specs on the J/92. I’m learning.

 

 

 

10k to get the right boat, with the right gear shipped, may be a better use of your money, than buying a less right boat, and having to either spend more money and time getting it right, or after a year or two, realizing you bought the wrong boat, and selling/buying over again.

Not saying that particular boat was the right one, just commenting that you shouldn't cross off a boat purely due to cost of transport...

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14 hours ago, BobJ said:

I had a J/33 before my J/92.  It was indeed a sweet boat that sailed well to its rating, even singlehanded.  I scared the crap out of myself a few times coming back under the Gate with its masthead kite, so when I decided to stick with singlehanding I sold it and bought the J/92, which I owned for 16 years.

Is the J/33 in Seattle the late Jim Tallet's "Zapped"?  He did the Singlehanded TransPac on it in 2002 and 2004.

I didn't think that the J-33 would be a good candidate for singlehanded sailing given the large rig, large headsails and need for crew weight to provide righting moment.  Shows what I know!!

I have been giving short handed sailing some serious thought over the past 6  months or so.  More seriously now that my youngest is three years away from being off the payroll (hopefully) and the program I'm currently with should allow me some time to ramp up my own program.

My priorities so far are speed, ease of handling, speed, under 30ft, speed, basic amenities, speed, trailer-ability, speed, lightweight and more speed.

Candidates are the more modern/contemporary hull shapes, so something along the lines of Seascape 27, Archambault 27, Andrews 28. J-92 (s) and J-88 could be candidates too.

MORC boats don't cut it for me.  Too heavy and too loaded up.

J-32 is one of my all time favourite J-boats.  I've surveyed three and they are nice sailing boats with great interiors that check a lot of boxes for........cruising.  I'm not interested in shorthanded racing at hull speed.

Of course we all have different priorities.  Surely someone who races a 964 has little need for creature comforts.  Gotta think the spouse of a 964 racer knows what to expect!!:ph34r:

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Diffrn't strokes...horses for courses and all that, but IMHO  the  80's MORC type boats make good singlehanders, generally. They behave pretty well in most all conditions.  They're not as fast off the wind as a ULDB, but they're a hell of a lot more comfortable when it blows.  But that's just me.

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2 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

 

Of course we all have different priorities.  Surely someone who races a 964 has little need for creature comforts.  Gotta think the spouse of a 964 racer knows what to expect!!:ph34r:

:-)  I  should have thought twice about using the 964racer id on this forum.  I actually do have a 911 Carrera 2 (type 964) and I have owned it for about 20 years  (it's in mint condition). I have a few minor track modifications to bring the suspension down to "RS" specs  but I don't race it (or drive very fast).  the 964racer is just a moniker I randomly came up with years ago.  I'm kind of a "poser" in that regard :-)

I don't know.. I think sailing in high wind on a planning hull would be something I am interested in.  I did a lot of windsurfing in the 80;s and 90's, but since my sailing consists of only experience on club cruising boats, I have never had the experience.  Now I live in the bay area.  Maybe I need to go out and try it.

 

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6 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

I didn't think that the J-33 would be a good candidate for singlehanded sailing given the large rig, large headsails and need for crew weight to provide righting moment.  Shows what I know!!

That was back when we got 6 sec/mile from PHRF for <125% LP headsails, so it rated 90 up here.  With a smooth reefing setup and #3 jib it was competitive in the SSS fleet on SF Bay.  I raced it mostly non-spinnaker for those two seasons.  I really liked that boat.

On Zapped, Tallet installed a sprit and tried asymmetric kites.  He said they didn't work that well but that was before the A2s got more refined.

Looking at the photos, I don't think the J/33 in Seattle is Jim's old boat.  It's too clean and stock.

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14 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

I didn't think that the J-33 would be a good candidate for singlehanded sailing given the large rig, large headsails and need for crew weight to provide righting moment.  Shows what I know!!

I have been giving short handed sailing some serious thought over the past 6  months or so.  More seriously now that my youngest is three years away from being off the payroll (hopefully) and the program I'm currently with should allow me some time to ramp up my own program.

My priorities so far are speed, ease of handling, speed, under 30ft, speed, basic amenities, speed, trailer-ability, speed, lightweight and more speed.

Candidates are the more modern/contemporary hull shapes, so something along the lines of Seascape 27, Archambault 27, Andrews 28. J-92 (s) and J-88 could be candidates too.

MORC boats don't cut it for me.  Too heavy and too loaded up.

J-32 is one of my all time favourite J-boats.  I've surveyed three and they are nice sailing boats with great interiors that check a lot of boxes for........cruising.  I'm not interested in shorthanded racing at hull speed.

Of course we all have different priorities.  Surely someone who races a 964 has little need for creature comforts.  Gotta think the spouse of a 964 racer knows what to expect!!:ph34r:

I might recommend the swan 45 for short handed sailing;) It has also proven to be successful with the PSSA!  Sadly it usually travels at "hull speeds" and is probably difficult to trailer.  Good news is the spouse of a 964 owner would be quite comfortable. 

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trucking cost was around 10k including yard charges on both ends so I lost interest .

That sounds like a GREAT deal....   seriously.   Remove mast and boom, store properly, truck across the country, reassembly on the other end.   $10k is more than fair.

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I think sailing in high wind on a planning hull would be something I am interested in.

Well none of the boats mentioned are fast off the wind and certainly none of them plane except the Antrim 27 and my boat ;).     Some might surf/surge.

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4 hours ago, solosailor said:

Well none of the boats mentioned are fast off the wind and certainly none of them plane except the Antrim 27 and my boat ;).     Some might surf/surge.

And Antrim 27 does not meet the criteria for a boat in the 32-35' range.

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On 3/27/2020 at 7:19 AM, marcus brutus said:

Doesn't appear that you are a serious buyer who would contact a number of boat transport outfits for quotes.

You are just another tire kicker.

No I wouldn't ..I  live in California. There is an ample supply of boats here.

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On 3/27/2020 at 9:12 AM, Crash said:

Why can't you be a serious buyer, and take several months to research and decide which boat is the best fit for you?  America has this crazy notion that if you are not buying today, right now, immediately, then you are not serious.  I've boat 6 boats so far.  Its always been a months long process.  I've bought something like 17 cars in my life, and again, those have all been months long processes.  Every salesman/broker who dismissed me as not serious, lost a sale in the end.

964 is being smart.  He's been out of sailing for some time, and is coming back to it.  And learning and researching....and going to look at the first boat today, if I'm not mistaken.  Time is on his side, why does he need to be any more "serious" at this stage?

I appreciate the comment Crash.  I actually have been sailing for a long time and I currently belong to a club and share a boat with other members.  For me, doing the research and learning about the boats is part of the fun in the process (and perhaps part of my nature). I've had a lot of good luck with it (that includes houses and cars)  The title of this thread is "Looking for Boat Suggestions".  That alone should indicate that I am looking/researching.   It's also not a bad time to do that given the circumstances we are in...

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Learning a lot myself, I like this kind of thread.

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6 hours ago, 964racer said:
On 3/27/2020 at 9:19 AM, marcus brutus said:

Doesn't appear that you are a serious buyer who would contact a number of boat transport outfits for quotes.

You are just another tire kicker.

 

6 hours ago, 964racer said:

No I wouldn't ..I  live in California. There is an ample supply of boats here.

 

Not only "an ample supply of boats" but also an ample supply of know-all idiots.

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3 hours ago, Slick470 said:

Did you end up looking at the Olson 911?  

Yes, I was able to look at it last week (social distancing rules applied :-).  I really liked the  Olson 911 and talking to owner further about it.  That was the first time I had seen one.

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1 hour ago, 964racer said:

Yes, I was able to look at it last week (social distancing rules applied :-).  I really liked the  Olson 911 and talking to owner further about it.  That was the first time I had seen one.

If you have any questions about the boats in general, let me know. We've had ours for about 10 years now. Mostly have used it as a shorthanded day sailor and family cruiser. I was gearing up to do low key Wednesday nights with it this year, but that's obviously on hold for the time being. We've also recently started up a FB group to try and pull some of the owners together. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Olson911S   

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To each his/her own.  J-Boats....the predictable choice of most American sailors- as though Rod Johnstone is the greatest naval architect of all time.  (He's not.)

if you can find a used Antrim design- nice!  Otherwise....go Euro.  European designers design boats with the objective of serious sailing, not based on marketing analytics. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/type-sail/?makeModel=archambault&page=3

These may be out of your price range but never forget: "You get what you pay for."

It costs between $20-$25K to ship a sailboat from Europe to the Bay Area.  Get a boat loan- money's pretty cheap right now.

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3 hours ago, Rude Dog said:

 

It costs between $20-$25K to ship a sailboat from Europe to the Bay Area.  Get a boat loan- money's pretty cheap right now.

Someone mentioned an A27 is for sale in this area.  I should investigate but as I recall it was balanced much more towards racing  for my original requirements. (the J-32 is actually a pretty balanced cruiser-racer in terms of interior features).  You're right about interest rates being cheap !  Honestly, as a first time buyer, the thought of transporting/trucking a boat turns me off a bit. with additional cost and hassle. It's probably not for me. If I was more experienced in a certain class/category and searched and found the perfect example of a boat I was familiar with I might consider it.

 

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Right you are.  The "perfect examples" you mention simply don't exist in the U.S.- at least- that was my conclusion in 2009, when I discovered- by accident- the Archambault line of boats.  New Zealand is another rich mother lode of insanely cool, unique boats, but it's a lot more difficult to engineer purchase and shipping a used boat from Down Under than it is from Europe.

The A-27 is a sport boat, through and through.  The A31, a "little brother" to the A35, could be your perfect boat- however, at the moment only one is available on Yachtworld.com.  As always, there's an excellent selection of A35s.  Archambault boats were all designed by Joubert/Nivelt- an outstanding naval architectural firm that was/is heads and tails more advanced and sophisticated than self-taught Rod Johnstone. 

Shipping and transportation?  If you work with an experienced professional yacht broker, a super-experienced boat finance person, and make sure they put you on to a reliable trucking firm specializing in boat transport, importing a used boat from Europe is 100% do-able.  Fortunately in the Bay Area, there is an AMAZING boat finance expert; in Nova Scotia, there is an wonderful yacht brokerage (Ocean Yachts) to work with, and if you have the patience and stamina- believe me- it's worth the effort.  

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Why the J Boat hate mail?  You can claim the wonders of Archambault all day long without knocking J Boats, because at the end of day thousands and thousands of people love their J Boats and love to sail the shit out of them.  Remind me which brand went 1-2, 4 overall last year in Transpac?  We have races up here with 100+ boats and 30% of the boats are J Boats.  Think they are all upset or disappointed about their choice of boat?  If J Boat owners like their boats and love to sail them, what's the problem?  Why do you even care?  

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I sailed a j105 for 8 years and then moved to a Pogo 30 and there is no comparison, the Pogo is so much more fun and I sail in the pnw.

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3 hours ago, Roleur said:

Why the J Boat hate mail?  You can claim the wonders of Archambault all day long without knocking J Boats, because at the end of day thousands and thousands of people love their J Boats and love to sail the shit out of them.  Remind me which brand went 1-2, 4 overall last year in Transpac?  We have races up here with 100+ boats and 30% of the boats are J Boats.  Think they are all upset or disappointed about their choice of boat?  If J Boat owners like their boats and love to sail them, what's the problem?  Why do you even care?  

I do not think that anyone cares but objective observers may agree with the following: 

“There’s a sucker born every minute.”

and

“No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”

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Everybody hates that their favorite boat only sold 20 or 30 hulls, while J sells a couple hundred of theirs.  Some of it is marketing, absolutely.  But, geez, then learn to fucking market your boat!

I think J/Boats succeeds where others fail, by specifically not trying to build the fastest or most technologically advanced boats.  Their boats perform relatively well, and the average club racer can get 95% out of the boat.  J/Boats are well researched, and well marketed, and very well targeted.  

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It is easy to have a love/relationship with JBoats. J24s, biggest fleet here, fun group, little boxes of pain. Ever buy a new J boat and the first thing you do is fair the center seam and keel? I always liked the J boats I owned, or did they own me? Sure put a lot of my energy into them in ways other than sailing, but the sailing was good. Pretty bulletproof boats in a lot of ways.

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22 hours ago, shaggyq said:

I sailed a j105 for 8 years and then moved to a Pogo 30 and there is no comparison, the Pogo is so much more fun and I sail in the pnw.

If I won the lottery and didn't put a price range in my initial post, I would be looking at one of those.  That seems like the modern day version of the boat I'm looking for :-)

 

 

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I think the best option for the type of sailing you want to perform is the Dehler 34 (the old one). It is a boat easy to handle, with a good cockpit for shorthanded crew and very manageable sails. In the cockpit, it has a deep sail locker on port (I am not sure but I think there are two models, one with this sail locker I am talking about, and another one with a much smaller locker but with two aft cabins instead of only the starboard one). All the winches are very near to the hands so it is easy to manoeuver. It sails very well in all kinds of conditions, from low winds upwinds to very heavy winds downwinds. Also is very easy to fit a good sprayhood to be dry and warm inside the cockpit in the toughest conditions. It has an open aft, so it is very easy to have a bath in the sea, but not too big like in modern boats where the kids are in danger of falling to the water.

Going to the interior, it is a lovely wood and cosy interior. Depending on what layer do you choose, it has two or one aft cabin. At the bow, there is a good double bed with the bath and some space to put all the clothes. I only know the one aft cabin layer, soy I only can talk about this layer interior. The aft cabin has just ahead the chart table with all the electronic controls. The aft cabin is a comfortable double with a lot of space for cloth storing. At the opposite side of the boat are the galley and the fridge, again, pretty comfortable. In the middle of the boat, there is a table which can fold to leave space to go forward and with a lot of space. In each side of the table, there are seats, where can be having dinner easily six people. Those seats can be converted in beds.

Precioso velero Dehler en Hoorn | NautalDehler34 barcos en venta - boats.comDehler 34 de 1987 a la venta en Botentekoop.nl.Dehler 34 en Alicante por 30.000€ Barcos de ocasión - Top BarcosDehler 34 | Mar Abierto

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19 hours ago, 964racer said:

If I won the lottery and didn't put a price range in my initial post, I would be looking at one of those.  That seems like the modern day version of the boat I'm looking for :-)

 

 

What a great video of happier days and a reminder of what we need to look forward to.  Thanks for posting.

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HI All,  any suggestions on late 90's - early 2000's boats that meet my criteria ? (even if I have to go higher in price)  I'm looking for a performance cruiser that can be single-handed with good stand-up interior .  I'm still a little crossed between a 30 and going a little larger like a 32-34' size boat - mainly for when I sail with my (Extended) family.

So far, here are the boats I am interested in from the research (and advice from this group !)

80;'s

- Olson 911  (looked at one in person, but can't get a survey and I think owner may have sold it already !)

- Olson 34  (none on the market on west coast right now)

- Ericson 33RH   - interesting boat but have not seen one for sale 

90's

- J/32 (look like they fit the bill - but none on the market right now)

- C&C 99  - looks interesting...(has mixed reviews)  one for sale in San Diego but I think it's sold. 

Others ?

 

 

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Remember you are looking at buying a sailboat and it can be sailed north to SF or south to SF.  Like paying yourself the shipping fee and getting to know your boat at the same time.  Don't try this at home unless you have been out there though.

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16 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Remember you are looking at buying a sailboat and it can be sailed north to SF or south to SF.  Like paying yourself the shipping fee and getting to know your boat at the same time.  Don't try this at home unless you have been out there though.

It would be a fun trip !  I have a few choices. Ideally, I would find the boat in SF bay area and I would like to keep it here and sail in this area for a while.  (I live in San Jose). When I say "a while", it could be for years.  I do have a 2nd place in Ventura county area and used to sale out of Channel Islands marina quite a bit;  I believe slips are available there, so that is also a 2nd choice.   any marina from San Diego to Santa Barbara is a pretty reasonable trip with stops under the right conditions to get to Channel Islands - there are good places to stop all along the way..  The LA-SF connection I think is a different story.  I think under the right conditions for point conception, bringing the boat DOWN from the bay area won't be too bad.  (I might consider hiring a captain to go with me).  Have not thought about the other direction though....defintely would require some research (and maybe a long tack halfway to hawaii :-)..

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On 3/18/2020 at 9:02 PM, 964racer said:

Hello--

New member here.  Getting back into sailing again. Looking for a boat (used) I can single-hand raise and cruise in Bay Area and SoCal. Something maybe 32-35' range. Interior has to be more complete than a sail locker as I want to cruise channel islands reasonably comfortably -  plus interested in  single-hand ocean racing - who knows  - maybe eventual transpac.   Price range - 50K

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can look for ?  I sailed a Capri 30 a long time ago but it seemed too light/fragile (but it was a nice boat to sail)..

 

I've seen a lot of options posted, but note that no one has mentioned any of the C&C boats out there. They would likely fit the description above, and there are a lot of options as far as years and sizes, and most performed decently to their ratings and provide nice accommodations, so may be worth looking into?

 

Edit, just saw the post a couple back with the C&C 32. These are good boats if you do your research and there is a wealth of resources out there on them.

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12 minutes ago, Goatish said:

I've seen a lot of options posted, but note that no one has mentioned any of the C&C boats out there. They would likely fit the description above, and there are a lot of options as far as years and sizes, and most performed decently to their ratings and provide nice accommodations, so may be worth looking into?

 

Edit, just saw the post a couple back with the C&C 32. These are good boats if you do your research and there is a wealth of resources out there on them.

Yes, good point.  In  90's, I belonged to Offshore Islands Sailing club in Channel Islands Marina and my favorite boat to take to the islands was the C&C 35 they had.  I honestly didn't know what version of the boat it was.  It was fairly "used" but I am thinking maybe it was an early 80's model.  Someone on the thread did mention a C&C 99 (maybe it was crash ?).  That looks like a very interesting boat, although it might be at the high end of my price range.  I was reading about the epoxy-based composite system they used for the hull. I am not sure if that is a plus or not if you have to repair it. it comes with a carbon rig, which I sure is much stiffer/responsive than aluminum but I do worry a bit about lifespan/cost to replace.  I used to use carbon masts for windsurfing (and now road bike frames/wheels) and replaced them on a regular basis $$$ due to cracking and other issues  :-). -

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32 minutes ago, 964racer said:

Yes, good point.  In  90's, I belonged to Offshore Islands Sailing club in Channel Islands Marina and my favorite boat to take to the islands was the C&C 35 they had.  I honestly didn't know what version of the boat it was.  It was fairly "used" but I am thinking maybe it was an early 80's model.  Someone on the thread did mention a C&C 99 (maybe it was crash ?).  That looks like a very interesting boat, although it might be at the high end of my price range.  I was reading about the epoxy-based composite system they used for the hull. I am not sure if that is a plus or not if you have to repair it. it comes with a carbon rig, which I sure is much stiffer/responsive than aluminum but I do worry a bit about lifespan/cost to replace.  I used to use carbon masts for windsurfing (and now road bike frames/wheels) and replaced them on a regular basis $$$ due to cracking and other issues  :-). -

Yes, I saw the 99 posted, but figured that would be out of your price range as I haven't ever seen one for that cost. I have a C&C 110, so the bigger brother to the 99, great boats, but they do not perform to their ratings all that well as they were delivered heavier than designed. The pre 1998 designed C&C models (prior to the Tartan Designed boats) is what I would recommend looking for. The still built some of the older designs past 98 (this is why the switched to the metric length designations) which would be a good find, but regardless, all in all they are solid and well performing boats that have a long history and thus a huge marketplace to choose from.

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5 hours ago, Goatish said:

The pre 1998 designed C&C models (prior to the Tartan Designed boats) is what I would recommend looking for. The still built some of the older designs past 98 (this is why the switched to the metric length designations) which would be a good find, but regardless, all in all they are solid and well performing boats that have a long history and thus a huge marketplace to choose from.

Can you suggestion which models from that period in the 32-37' range ?

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On 3/28/2020 at 5:14 AM, Crash said:

10k to get the right boat, with the right gear shipped, may be a better use of your money, than buying a less right boat, and having to either spend more money and time getting it right, or after a year or two, realizing you bought the wrong boat, and selling/buying over again.

Not saying that particular boat was the right one, just commenting that you shouldn't cross off a boat purely due to cost of transport...

Agree fully, that 10k would get soaked up so fast into the wrong boat. The cheapest boat is the the best one you can find, even if you have to borrow some extra it will work out far better to pay a premium now for a boat that ticks all the boxes

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J105 saw five boats (their own class!) in the last SSS race before the plague happened. I intend to enter all the SSS races (double-handed) this year. J105 had north of 12 boats for three bridge fiasco. Generally we see 3-4 J/105 at each SSS race. J/105 also tends to hold their value very well if that matters to you.

The J105 has 5 gallons running water, a head with a door, stove, sleeps 4. It gets the job done. I can't stand up in it except to put my pants on and take a piss but we've done some weekending on it including a couple of trips down to Monterey. Generally one 105 does transpac/pac cup each year. That is our plan as well, hopefully 2021? My wife chose the 105 over some more racey boats. She can stand up in it though.

Otherwise if you are planning on single/double-handing in the bay area, Express 27 should be on your short list. Express 27 is the largest OD single/doublehanding keelboat class beside the Moore 24, and both of those can go on a trailer using a crane after Delta Ditch.

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I considered the J/105 when I sold my J/92, mostly for this reason.  Being able to race both shorthanded and one-design seemed appealing.

One concern, based on personal observation in recent SSS races, is that skippers who are used to racing one-design need to dial it back a bit.  Even without full crew, some of them are so focused on beating their class-mates that they ignore the singlehanders who can't respond as fast.  The most recent result is a prominent singlehander and former SSS Commodore with his Olson 29 on the rocks in front of the StFYC.  And yes, that was exactly the cause.

But your post was about boat selection and I think for double-handed racing on SF Bay, the J/105 is a great choice in that size range.

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56 minutes ago, BobJ said:

 

But your post was about boat selection and I think for double-handed racing on SF Bay, the J/105 is a great choice in that size range.

I looked at the J/105 a little more closely and I don't think it meets my needs in terms of  the creature comforts as a multi-task cruising/racing boat.  At this stage, my thoughts are that I would like to try some single-handed racing, but I have zero experience.  (only some limited crew racing and a racing course I took a long time ago on a capri 30 and soling series boats).    Investing in a boat that is balanced more towards racing and missing the mark on cruising interior will probably not make me popular with the family :-)...  I'm also pretty tall. (6'2"), so being able to stand up would be nice.  I think maybe you originally recommended the Olson 911 and I looked at that boat.  I was really a nice balance, but I didn't make a fast offer on it (without a survey) and it sold quickly.

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The J/105 didn't make it for me for one of the same reasons - I was ready for a boat with standing headroom.

Also, it's a much better double-handed boat than singlehanded, since most of them have wheels.  But there are lots of them around here, good used sails can be had and there are nearly enough participating in SSS to give them a one-design division.  Thus my response to Hadlock.

Once we're freed up, you are welcome to join me for a sail.  If you haven't bought a boat yet, it may influence your decision.

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There is another ways to go. A fast classic wooden yacht has panache that other boats just don't have. Your PHRF would give you an advantage over fast plastic boats.

An example - Kate II currently available, a Seaborn design checks a lot of boxes one would want. Swiftsure winner and would be competitive in a both strains of transpac fever.   Elegant as hell and nearly as fast. 15k for the boat. 10k for refresh. 15k for new sails. a boat you would enjoy for a lifetime. (I hold no interest). 

00d0d_dYrd16JpQMG_600x450.jpg

00s0s_khdlNdgxrKj_600x450.jpg

00w0w_kfD6X6YVH16_600x450.jpg

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8 hours ago, BobJ said:

 

Once we're freed up, you are welcome to join me for a sail.  If you haven't bought a boat yet, it may influence your decision.

thanks for the invite ! have not purchased yet. lets get in touch once covid thiing is sorted out.  

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6 hours ago, Black Jack said:

There is another ways to go. A fast classic wooden yacht has panache that other boats just don't have. Your PHRF would give you an advantage over fast plastic boats.

I can't argue that the classic wooden yachts are beautiful.   Not in my price range but you should check out "Rowena" which is for sale.  (1963 Rhodes Cutter).. I was interested in the builder/history of the boat and it was owned by a family in the Bay area (it's now in Newport beach ) I think.

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On 4/17/2020 at 5:09 PM, 964racer said:

Can you suggestion which models from that period in the 32-37' range ?

Something like this might be worth looking at: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/c-c-34-3667994/

If you read the description you will see that the photos are not all that current, notes about traveler being moved into the cockpit and they relocated a lot of winches back into the cockpit area.

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Half serious -  I would love to race this boat short handed. Last time I saw her,  she needed my help. I have put out inquires.  kicking ass with a 125 year old fast and comfortable vessel would be too cool.

91982323_10219497106271116_5690676313937936384_o.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-04-20 at 11.40.56 AM.png

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Black Jack, that is a manly looking mainsheet, lots of space on the prod for the asym!

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