JimBowie

Chips Gonna Fall. What Opportunity You Seeking?

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In every crisis, there's winnahs and luzzahs.  This event will be no different.  Assuming you're sitting on a pile of ca$h (winnah) and some poor sot is saddled with a boat they can't afford (luzzah) there's gonna be bargains to be had by summa.  So.  That said.  What magic carpet ride you looking to snag for pennies on the dollah?

Melges 32.  E tu?

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Don’t just look at what you can afford to purchase. Look at what you can afford to outfit and maintain!  Have you looked into what a new suit of sails runs?  The viable Used Sails market for the Melges has dried up!  You don’t have DeVos and Kilroy rotating sails every regatta.  Then you have to look at maintenance. Remember the Ed’s boat, keelbox had to be rebuilt ($$,$$$)!  

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id love to pick up an old Iroquois catamaran, down around the Florida area, but dont have a lot of cash..... hope something pops up.

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10 hours ago, JimBowie said:

In every crisis, there's winnahs and luzzahs.  This event will be no different.  Assuming you're sitting on a pile of ca$h (winnah) and some poor sot is saddled with a boat they can't afford (luzzah) there's gonna be bargains to be had by summa.  So.  That said.  What magic carpet ride you looking to snag for pennies on the dollah?

Melges 32.  E tu?

always nice to profit on the misery of others..

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16 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

always nice to profit on the misery of others..

This is the problem with lacking a basic understanding of economics.  When prices decline and a willing seller disposes of an asset to a willing buyer, why is that profiting on the misery of others or taking advantage? How do you know the seller isn't selling at a better price now than he might get 6 months from now if prices decline further? Will you come back here and say the seller profited at the expense of the buyer?  Likely not! Let the market work and leave it alone to do its magic. We don't know the circumstances of the seller or buyer so maybe the seller feels grateful he now has cash instead of an asset costing cash in slip fees, maintenance and insurance. No one is guaranteed they can sell their boat any time they want at the highest price it has ever been worth. That is a fantasy or a socialist dream!!

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1 hour ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

always nice to profit on the misery of others..

The guy isn’t saying “sucks to be you loser.” A buyer is effectively taking a financial burden off a seller’s hands at a price that benefits the buyer. Someone loses a boat, but gets to keep their house and not ruin their credit by defaulting on slip fees. We don’t know how bad this is going to be,  better to sell and be in the black, than keep the boat because you wouldn’t drop the price a grand or two, and be in the red.

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2 hours ago, sail2win said:

 a willing seller disposes of an asset

There's the kicker - willing or desperate?

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12 hours ago, silent bob said:

Don’t just look at what you can afford to purchase. Look at what you can afford to outfit and maintain!  Have you looked into what a new suit of sails runs?  The viable Used Sails market for the Melges has dried up!  You don’t have DeVos and Kilroy rotating sails every regatta.  Then you have to look at maintenance. Remember the Ed’s boat, keelbox had to be rebuilt ($$,$$$)!  

Was this his first or second FT10?

Would you please provide details.

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2 hours ago, sail2win said:

This is the problem with lacking a basic understanding of economics.  When prices decline and a willing seller disposes of an asset to a willing buyer, why is that profiting on the misery of others or taking advantage? How do you know the seller isn't selling at a better price now than he might get 6 months from now if prices decline further? Will you come back here and say the seller profited at the expense of the buyer?  Likely not! Let the market work and leave it alone to do its magic. We don't know the circumstances of the seller or buyer so maybe the seller feels grateful he now has cash instead of an asset costing cash in slip fees, maintenance and insurance. No one is guaranteed they can sell their boat any time they want at the highest price it has ever been worth. That is a fantasy or a socialist dream!!

Actually that is a fantasy or a capitalist dream !!

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30 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

Was this his first or second FT10?

Would you please provide details.

when you say "his", i assume you mean me? it is my second one. email if you need more info.

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41 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

Was this his first or second FT10?

Would you please provide details.

His Melges 32.

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I am looking out for a Corsair F31 AC but as you can put them on trailers in the back yard  I don’t think people will rush to sell them. 
 

On a different note Leopard sent a email recently saying they have 2020 Leopard 40 on deep discount in the low 400s are boat loan rates cheap right now??

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I just had a past crew buddy recently offer me his Ranger 28. It is/was a tricked out dry sailed winner from WLIS.  Now sits in SE USA in his back yard.

He says 'you want the boat for free, it sits on a 6k trailer'.   Truth is, It is not a very comfortable boat (to my wife) but, the slip would be affordable (less than 2k/yr).

 I wish my father would be alive to push me to go get it.  I already have a boat in the driveway that does not get used enough (Newport Holiday 20).

Maybe, when this is all over, I will re-evaluate..

 

Sail Safe!

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15 hours ago, basketcase said:

id love to pick up an old Iroquois catamaran, down around the Florida area, but dont have a lot of cash..... hope something pops up.

Does it need to have a mast or rutters?

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23 minutes ago, Looper said:

Does it need to have a mast or rutters?

they would be nice, but not a deal breaker. it should, however, have a deck you can walk on.

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Strymon Blue Sky guitar pedal. I'd also take a 1930s L-5 or a Collins.

Not on par with a Melges 32, or a Corsair F31, but if you apply the correct factors (guitar money is almost the same tool money, more than grocery money but considerably less than boat money) then it scales to about the same place on the wish list.

Come to think of it, I'd take a Melges 32 is the price was right enough.

FB- Doug

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Not to be a suck-up, but... $35k for the Ed's fully prepped F10 seems like a great deal.

It amazes me how cheap these boats are, compared to other race boats in their size or speed bracket.

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There were even amazing deals during the Obama economic expansion that lasted 11 years! Even after eleven years of growth!

OK, so the last 3 were a bit worse than the preceding years. Remember when we had an intelligent President that was internationally respected? Even under the current President who has been laughed at by leaders around the globe, and even with 2019 starting with an arbitrary government shutdown due to a temper tantrum by a big fat orange baby that really fucked growth for many companies...

Luckily, the sale of my last company to Boeing closed just weeks before that tantrum! Whew, the cash was already in my bank. But still, a good 11 year run of economic growth that truly floated all boats. 

And this week, there were what, two million layoffs yesterday? 

I am sure there are today many boats in any given marina where some owner really does not want to pay even one more month of slip rent. Ask around. Marina managers are excellent people to ask, as are those who spend a lot of time in the specific marina.

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4 hours ago, Pokey uh da LBC said:

Not to be a suck-up, but... $35k for the Ed's fully prepped F10 seems like a great deal.

It amazes me how cheap these boats are, compared to other race boats in their size or speed bracket.

They’ve been selling for less than that   

This one is cherry. All new  sails. Code Zero. Rudder light use   

been trying to sell for 2 years 

listed at 29,9

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/flying-tiger-10m-3545120/

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9 hours ago, Cristoforo said:
14 hours ago, Pokey uh da LBC said:

Not to be a suck-up, but... $35k for the Ed's fully prepped F10 seems like a great deal.

It amazes me how cheap these boats are, compared to other race boats in their size or speed bracket.

They’ve been selling for less than that   

This one is cherry. All new  sails. Code Zero. Rudder light use   

been trying to sell for 2 years 

listed at 29,9

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/flying-tiger-10m-3545120/

Hard to tell without going to look at both boats. One thing I have learned over the years about boats with trailers... shoppers do not place any value on the trailer, yet trailers are very expensive and often they're not properly fitted out.

Compare like to like... there's some Melges, some Hendos, maybe a Mumm? Harder to search around on the interwebz these days

FB- Doug

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I've been saving to buy a sailboat and to pay off my debts for the last 2 years, and I've got about 25k in the bank and no debt whatsoever. If I do end up getting laid off (possible in about 6 months, given my location in Canada), do you think there'll be anything in my price range out in BC?

Probably be looking to spend about 10k and have some cash left over for repairs or, ya know, food.  I'm not even sure if we'll be allowed to move around the country at that point.

Ideally I'd love a Contessa 26 or 32, or something along those lines. Strong, seaworthy boat that focuses more on single-handed sailing than necessarily having crazy headroom or 20 bunks or anything like that. 

Love to have:

Tiller steering, some kind of dodger or bimini for rain protection in BC winters, a heater, decent suite of sails, not *too* much work needed.....

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On 3/20/2020 at 3:55 AM, sail2win said:

This is the problem with lacking a basic understanding of economics.  When prices decline and a willing seller disposes of an asset to a willing buyer, why is that profiting on the misery of others or taking advantage? How do you know the seller isn't selling at a better price now than he might get 6 months from now if prices decline further? Will you come back here and say the seller profited at the expense of the buyer?  Likely not! Let the market work and leave it alone to do its magic. We don't know the circumstances of the seller or buyer so maybe the seller feels grateful he now has cash instead of an asset costing cash in slip fees, maintenance and insurance. No one is guaranteed they can sell their boat any time they want at the highest price it has ever been worth. That is a fantasy or a socialist dream!!

There's always a way to rationalize any behavior. 

Well done.  

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11 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

They’ve been selling for less than that   

This one is cherry. All new  sails. Code Zero. Rudder light use   

been trying to sell for 2 years 

listed at 29,9

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/flying-tiger-10m-3545120/

This boat is cherry and the trailer is set up right / in new condition.  Worth a serious look if interested in the FT10 platform

 

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13 hours ago, carcrash said:

And this week, there were what, two million layoffs yesterday? 

Are you trying to blame the layoffs on Trump?

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19 minutes ago, rockb said:

Are you trying to blame the layoffs on Trump?

go party on the beach

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37 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

go party on the beach

No.  Go party in a COVID 19 isolation ward at your local hospital and be sure and lick all available surfaces.  Twice.

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1 hour ago, rockb said:

Are you trying to blame the layoffs on Trump?

He's not taking responsibility.

He said so himself.

 

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4 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

I've been saving to buy a sailboat and to pay off my debts for the last 2 years, and I've got about 25k in the bank and no debt whatsoever. If I do end up getting laid off (possible in about 6 months, given my location in Canada), do you think there'll be anything in my price range out in BC?

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that in a few months, there will be lots and lots of small sailboats being given away.  The trick is finding good ones, as a lot of them are likely to be the ones which have been sitting unused for years.  It might be cheaper to spend $10k on a boat that's been consistently loved than get a free boat that's been neglected for 5 years.  Even 6 months of neglect can be costly to remedy in some environments.  

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Sold my boat in January.  Looking for a j109 or j120. Maybe C&C 115 sprit. Been out kicking keels till the admiral grounded me from travel.

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22 minutes ago, eerie sailor said:

Sold my boat in January.  Looking for a j109 or j120. Maybe C&C 115 sprit. Been out kicking keels till the admiral grounded me from travel.

Good!  I've noticed a lot of you boomers are having trouble staying put...for example, my own parents  :).

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20 minutes ago, Looper said:

Good!  I've noticed a lot of you boomers are having trouble staying put...for example, my own parents  :).

Still got my bicycle  :) Usually good for a hundred miles a day. 

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5 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

I've been saving to buy a sailboat and to pay off my debts for the last 2 years, and I've got about 25k in the bank and no debt whatsoever. If I do end up getting laid off (possible in about 6 months, given my location in Canada), do you think there'll be anything in my price range out in BC?

Probably be looking to spend about 10k and have some cash left over for repairs or, ya know, food.  I'm not even sure if we'll be allowed to move around the country at that point.

I think you'll definitely find something for that kind of money - boats under 30' are very cheap these days (going forward, maybe even more so??). Like others have said, don't be tempted by a project (ask me how I know!). Contessas have a cult following so are a bit inflated price wise, but lots of options out there. Don't be afraid to lowball, just don't be a dick about it. If someone emails me out of the blue and says "I'll give you [half your asking price]", I'm not going to take them seriously. But if they're polite, ask questions, show an actual interest, and say "Hey, so my budget is X. I know that's a lot lower than you're asking, is it worth me coming to take a look?" then we can very likely work something out. 

With a $10k budget, here's some I'd be checking out:

Classic west coast plastic, original owner, looks well loved. I'd want some details on the engine, but hard to argue with the price.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/boa/d/west-vancouver-west-spencer-31-sail-boat/7093509995.html

 

It's a Hunter, but not the kind you're thinking. If you're into full keels, this has pedigree and would take you anywhere in safety and comfort. Albeit, somewhat slowly in light air.

https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/30ft-hunter-vogel_35088733

 

Solid C&C, recent outboard power.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/vancouver-1971-cc-mark-sailboat/7068042992.html

 

Bruce king design, outboard is cheap to maintain, less of a liability than an old diesel. 

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/boa/d/burnaby-1978-ericson-27-foot-in/7067710261.html

 

Maybe a bit small but looks really well equipped, and very manageable. Recent outboard should have you set power wise. To be honest I kind of want it.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/surrey-northeast-niagara-26-sailboat/7079005628.html

 

Looks french? Recent diesel, looks well cared for.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/bod/d/port-moody-1983-maxi-fenix-28-sloop/7088842914.html

 

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I agree on the “don’t be afraid to lowball” comment. Several boats I looked at in very good condition, Such as recent major refits, I did not make an offer. Yet the boats actually sold for, or are now advertised for, less than the low ball offer I was thinking.

You don’t know til you offer.

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Actual example: a Swan 65 in perfect condition, asking $1.25 million. My attorney for my Swiss holding company made an offer and it was accepted, deal closed: $250k

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16 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Actual example: a Swan 65 in perfect condition, asking $1.25 million. My attorney for my Swiss holding company made an offer and it was accepted, deal closed: $250k

Holy crap.  Was that the one in San Diego?  When did it close?  

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3 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Holy crap.  Was that the one in San Diego?  When did it close?  

And hence the title and purpose of this thread..Taaadaaa!

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On 3/19/2020 at 6:54 PM, Editor said:

i'm losing and do really need to sell A4. It is available and for fucking cheap!

Well, if the Swan 65 is worth $0.20 on the dollar, i'll offer you an outstanding $7,000.00 USD ca$h and haul it home myself.  HURRY! This offer expires soon...like most of us Covid19 sucking scum.

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2 hours ago, andykane said:

Maxi's are Swedish I believe.

Of the boats you listed the Spencer is by far the best buy - except for the deck colour :o

Those are about as well built as any "small" boat you are likely to find. Kind of bland but your great grandchildren will thank you. Comparable to a Cal 29 but substantially higher quality.

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1 hour ago, carcrash said:

I agree on the “don’t be afraid to lowball” comment. Several boats I looked at in very good condition, Such as recent major refits, I did not make an offer. Yet the boats actually sold for, or are now advertised for, less than the low ball offer I was thinking.

You don’t know til you offer.

All they can say is "No." Of course, being businesslike and not patronizing, helps. Always leave the door open. And actually have the money you offer.

Boats, cars, houses.... probably airplanes and horses too, but I have never bought or sold one of those... it's -always- a game of "let's make a deal." When a seller really wants to sell and has either not had any offers or has seen a couple of near-buyers walk away, they are willing to take quite a bit less than their original starry-eyed ask. Executors trying to close out an estate especially so.

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, socalrider said:

Holy crap.  Was that the one in San Diego?  When did it close?  

No. Newport, October 1986. Best part: found my perfect wife!

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Perfect wife is good, soul mate is even better.  Combine then both, nirvana.

 

Sorry Curt. 

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18 hours ago, andykane said:

I think you'll definitely find something for that kind of money - boats under 30' are very cheap these days (going forward, maybe even more so??). Like others have said, don't be tempted by a project (ask me how I know!). Contessas have a cult following so are a bit inflated price wise, but lots of options out there. Don't be afraid to lowball, just don't be a dick about it. If someone emails me out of the blue and says "I'll give you [half your asking price]", I'm not going to take them seriously. But if they're polite, ask questions, show an actual interest, and say "Hey, so my budget is X. I know that's a lot lower than you're asking, is it worth me coming to take a look?" then we can very likely work something out. 

With a $10k budget, here's some I'd be checking out:

Classic west coast plastic, original owner, looks well loved. I'd want some details on the engine, but hard to argue with the price.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/boa/d/west-vancouver-west-spencer-31-sail-boat/7093509995.html

 

It's a Hunter, but not the kind you're thinking. If you're into full keels, this has pedigree and would take you anywhere in safety and comfort. Albeit, somewhat slowly in light air.

https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/30ft-hunter-vogel_35088733

 

Solid C&C, recent outboard power.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/vancouver-1971-cc-mark-sailboat/7068042992.html

 

Bruce king design, outboard is cheap to maintain, less of a liability than an old diesel. 

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/boa/d/burnaby-1978-ericson-27-foot-in/7067710261.html

 

Maybe a bit small but looks really well equipped, and very manageable. Recent outboard should have you set power wise. To be honest I kind of want it.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/surrey-northeast-niagara-26-sailboat/7079005628.html

 

Looks french? Recent diesel, looks well cared for.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/bod/d/port-moody-1983-maxi-fenix-28-sloop/7088842914.html

 

 

15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Maxi's are Swedish I believe.

Of the boats you listed the Spencer is by far the best buy - except for the deck colour :o

Those are about as well built as any "small" boat you are likely to find. Kind of bland but your great grandchildren will thank you. Comparable to a Cal 29 but substantially higher quality.

Looks like I'm not the only person considering the options, that Spencer is sale pending already, and the Vogel is sold. 

Pretty much any of those boats look like they'd be decent options, honestly. I agree with what you said about spending a bit more on a boat that's ready to go. So many headaches saved, for sure. Thank you very much for taking the time to link those ads.

 

Hopefully the deals keep coming for a while. We're not shut down yet, and I'm going to try and keep making money as long as possible. 

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13 hours ago, Varan said:

Perfect wife is good, soul mate is even better.  Combine then both, nirvana.

 

Sorry Curt. 

body and soul huh? I forgot that..

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On 3/21/2020 at 8:40 AM, Vaeredil said:

Ideally I'd love a Contessa 26 or 32, or something along those lines.

A short video for your enjoyment:

 

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On 3/21/2020 at 6:40 AM, Vaeredil said:

I've been saving to buy a sailboat and to pay off my debts for the last 2 years, and I've got about 25k in the bank and no debt whatsoever.

 

IIRC, you were in a deep hole a couple of years back. Congratulations. That kind of turnaround is only possible with dedication and hard work (or, a major lottery win...)

 

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37 minutes ago, Svanen said:

A short video for your enjoyment:

 

That's about as good as pornography in these trying times. What a gorgeous boat. Little bit out of my price range though :P

34 minutes ago, mcmurdo said:

IIRC, you were in a deep hole a couple of years back. Congratulations. That kind of turnaround is only possible with dedication and hard work (or, a major lottery win...)

 

No lottery wins here, just hard work and being frugal. I'm flattered that you remembered me/my story from my posts back then, thank you! It means a lot that people notice. I'm hoping I can make it all work.

 

The wrench in the works now is that casual work is going to be a lot harder to come by after coronavirus if the news figures on unemployment and a coming recession(/depression?), so I'm trying to figure out something that I can reliably do to keep money flowing while I'm living on the boat and sailing. 

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Might make me a nice little bay PHRF racer for our high wind area

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The alternative we all try not to consider is that someone else may be buying our boats off our estates for pennies on the dollar.

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Yeah - the average age here must be pretty close to or over that Italian ventilator cutoff age.

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