PeterHuston

Covid-19 Mask Anarchy

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I’m seeing twitter posts and WSJ front page stories with increasing frequency about the fact the country is running out of surgical masks, and some hospitals are resorting to having people sew them in the hospital.

That made me think the sailing industry and community could mobilize to help reduce this problem.  Many cities have a loft floor, a few sewing machines, and people who know how to sew.

Here is what is needed to be identified:

Hospital with need

Buyer of surgical supplies for hospital

Specs of masks

Desired materials, and second best option

 

Loft location

Floor size and number of machines

Seemstresses

Keep the machines running 24/7, retired sailmaker, anyone who can sew

 

Payment of materials and time.

 

Massive manufacturing is best, but does not seem available.  Manufacturing masks locally for each hospital has multiple advantages such as time to ship, minimal steps between manufacture and delivery.  This is not a long term solution, it is triage, necessary right now.  

Forget about what should have been done, what would be the best/cheapest way to manufacture masks.  The need is immediate.  Like today.  Get masks made now, work towards larger automated manufacturing with appropriate haste.

Right now what is needed is Mask Anarchy.  Just like a popular boat was designed on SA, so to can we help solve an immediate medical supply problem.

If you know anyone in any of the relevant positions, try to connect them with another part of the equation.  Do not wait for anyone to give permission, just do it.  If you can help, or know someone who can, just post it here.  If this grows and a database would be desirable, I’m sure there’s someone here who can run that.  The first step is to identify the need and specifications via the appropriate hospital purchasing agent, as they will know the specific need and have all the required specs and via their supply chain, the necessary materials.

On a related issue, this company is helping with 3D printing for face shields. Anyone with printer time ought to read this and see if the same need for shields applies to their local hospital.  https://budmen.com

This is critical.  We have to reduce the contagion so the economy can get going again as fast as possible.  Everyone is just sitting around with nothing to do - so here’s something productive to do, communicate and lead.  This place has more than it’s share of wicked smart, very connected people.

Go.

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Hisse et Oh has beat you to it:

 

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my understanding is that 3m just released 35 million masks that otherwise couldn't be sold to hospitals due to liability laws. Based on what I get charged for sails, I don't think any combination of lofts will be able to spin up production that rivals what 3m and prestige can do, especially when prestige is turning down 100 million mask orders.

I don't think the problem has ever been manufacturing capacity, at least in the US, I think it's been the red tape to get specific masks into the hands of health care professionals.

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Norwegian sail loft is producing overalls ( boiler suits...?) in spinnaker cloth ( washable) and face protection in poly carbonate (?) for local hospitals. 7 deaths in Norway so far, all over 80 years old. https://www.tu.no/artikler/da-seilmakeren-ble-kontaktet-av-en-lege-la-de-om-produksjonen/487737?fbclid=IwAR0SCMBZMuLX8WiAGsAN-KDC4_rz2GMyGbk_ZDilSMisd2SR-c5z4_zs5Ok 

 

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Some French hospitals had to make some with bras :

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Some French hospitals had to make some with bras :

 

 

Hope the boobs were still in them:P

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Just now, ROADKILL666 said:

Hope the boobs were still in them:P

In your dreams!

And you will be dreaming that you have wet dreams too.  :rolleyes:

 

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20 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

In your dreams!

And you will be dreaming that you have wet dreams too.  :rolleyes:

 

A boy can wet dream

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What do you want them to make the mask out of, zero porosity AirX spinnaker cloth?  I wouldn’t want coveralls made out of it, either!  Most of what they have in stock is useless for Masks, or anything else in the PPE range. My sailmakers shops smallest machine is a Bernina 217, I don’t think you want his Adler 166 sewing your masks!

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we're happy to help given we can get the materials and instructions.  if anyone here is driving the bus on this please contact me & we'll roll the ball.  the state just shut us down but most of us would rather help out.

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Masks and other PPE gear can be purchased and shipped from China. We need to build up domestic PPE manufacturing capacity, but probably not today.

Anarchists - and the greater sailing community may be able to help fabricate custom equipment for hospitals. Already, 3D printing has made $10k valves available in minutes for about $1. The sailing community's experience with stainless steel might be extremely relevant.

Old sails might be useful as partitions and tents for outdoor testing or triage facilities. Old lines are likely useful for securing tents or crowd management cordons.

 

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I have been making covers for masks out of old scrubs.

The shortage is real. My wife is issued one surgical mask at the beginning of her 12hr shift and she swaps covers when she goes from procedure to procedure. Not ideal really  but the covers were easier to make than the masks with the machines i have in my basement (Singer 107W2, Singer 111W155)

There are a couple of youtube videos on it but anyone who has spent some time behind a sewing machine can zip them out pretty quickly. 

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Going rate at wholesale is $.03ea including labor and materials. We looked at it yesterday and could not work out how to make it work financially for us.

 

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18 minutes ago, jgh66 said:

trigema, the last big producer of clothing in germany now produces 100000 reusable masks per day... at 6€ in bigger quantities, 10 for 120€...... 

https://www.trigema.de/en/Protective-clothing/Reusable-mouth-and-nose-protection-white-1.html

Do you know how to recycle a condom?
 

Turn it inside out and shake the fuck out of it!

 

So, €12 each vs. $0.03 each?  And what does it cost to wash and sterilize them?

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2 hours ago, apophenia said:

Masks and other PPE gear can be purchased and shipped from China. We need to build up domestic PPE manufacturing capacity, but probably not today.

Anarchists - and the greater sailing community may be able to help fabricate custom equipment for hospitals. Already, 3D printing has made $10k valves available in minutes for about $1. The sailing community's experience with stainless steel might be extremely relevant.

Old sails might be useful as partitions and tents for outdoor testing or triage facilities. Old lines are likely useful for securing tents or crowd management cordons.

 

Sails make okay shade for a few months, before U/V turns them to rough toilet paper.  You can not make an effective tent out of the, either.  It will be leaky and drafty, not suitable for habitation or testing. A rope barrier is not going to keep people, or animals, in or out of an area!  There are people that do this kind of stuff for a living!  
 

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-makes-company-refocus-from-festivals-to-hospitals/

 

My sailmaker charges extra when people want to repurpose sails!  He compares it to recycling toilet paper.  Sure you CAN do it, but WHY?

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39 minutes ago, silent bob said:

Do you know how to recycle a condom?
 

Turn it inside out and shake the fuck out of it!

 

So, €12 each vs. $0.03 each?  And what does it cost to wash and sterilize them?

If you can get no masks at 0.03, but you need them urgently it makes sense for 6€..there are also small shops popping up locally that sell for 5€... why not? If you can deliver 10 million masks to germany within 2 days for 0.03€, great, can you? 

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Some hospitals set up their own mask making,

https://zorgnu.avrotros.nl/nieuws/item/wilhelmina-ziekenhuis-in-assen-maakt-zelf-mondkapjes/
https://www.nursing.nl/ziekenhuis-maakt-zelf-mondkapjes-hoe-veilig-is-dat/
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1296075922/knutselen-thuis-loont-ziekenhuis-assen-maakt-zelf-mondkapjes

use google translate or deepl.com

material used polypropyleen in sheet form.

This hospital gets their surgical material delivered in this material, so they recycle it.
You need a metal cutter shape, a hot welding to fuse multiple layers and a few sewers. But it is not FFP level. But can be used in non corona wings of the hospital and so save the FFP for Corona wings.

Good luck, and contact your local hospital.

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did some more research and they keep the material kind of secret as it needs more testing and because stupid people would buy it for themselves.
But it is a project with serious help from TU delft University, who are developing respirators too in the project OpenAir.

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19 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Microwave the fucking masks.

An Instant Pot or a rice cooker is an adequate desktop autoclave for renewing masks. IIRC, you can get 2-4 uses out of a mask this way.

https://instantpot.com/who-knew-that-instant-pot-can-provides-scientific-grade-sterilization-actually-we-did/

Microwaves work by pumping energy into water, so may be less effective.

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Providence Healthcare/Hospitals has asked for volunteers to sew masks. My wife works for them. Masks are 4 layers of fabric, each piece about 17"x15" before the pleats are sewn in. She has made a few so far just for our grown  kids who work in schools and a few for us. It takes a bit more time than what she thought and she does a LOT of sewing. It's her #1 hobby. If anyone wants the specs for yourself or others msg me and I'll get you the info. 

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Downside is you will look like a water cooler   - upside is you will meet new people wanting to stand around and have a chat.

ESQj-06X0AAQCeZ.thumb.jpeg.983b333d577022760ce816b7ee36539a.jpeg

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Quote

Multiplast boayard boss Mr Dubois gave spare masks to the local hospital --> even if it is not so many and won't last more than a day, let's replicate.

 

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Mark Washeim of One Sails on Long Island has engaged, started this FB thread.

Click on the blue FB icon in the upper right of his post to get to his thread.

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What are the most complex manufacturing bits for a ventilator?  Air pump, control unit and a tube/mask. 
 

Seems time to start a pop up ventilator business.  

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From Hayden Goodrick:

My company is mass manufacturing masks! We have masks available ready to ship. If anyone wants to DM me for The information on our masks and orders we can start taking orders now. Ready to ship ASAP 
hayden@triosportswear.com

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Mask wise couldn't we cut up MERV 16 or 17 air filters for effective protection? They are already pleated like in the video.  And the filtration comes with some sort of certification.

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8 hours ago, Student_Driver said:

What are the most complex manufacturing bits for a ventilator?  Air pump, control unit and a tube/mask. 
 

Seems time to start a pop up ventilator business.  

Companies that normally make CPAP devices for sleep apnoea are now converting to make basic ventilators.

Hopefully not too many components need to come from China.......

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22 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Microwave the fucking masks.

Autoclave or one of the many virus killings solutions 

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1 hour ago, Secret Experiment said:

Companies that normally make CPAP devices for sleep apnoea are now converting to make basic ventilators.

Hopefully not too many components need to come from China.......

 

9 hours ago, Student_Driver said:

What are the most complex manufacturing bits for a ventilator?  Air pump, control unit and a tube/mask. 
 

Seems time to start a pop up ventilator business.  

Well the state of the art ventilators are full of all sorts of info and date display... a simple rate of respiration control would be much easier to bring online 

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

Autoclave or one of the many virus killings solutions 

No, you have to autoclave the masks. The  inner layer depends on static electricity and needs to be dry for maximum effectiveness. Fortunately, heat kills C19. 

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Some of us have n95 masks left over from painting or sanding projects. I hate to give workers used gear, but it might be appropriate if you hear about a collection in your area.

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On 3/20/2020 at 1:14 PM, silent bob said:

What do you want them to make the mask out of, zero porosity AirX spinnaker cloth?  I wouldn’t want coveralls made out of it, either!  Most of what they have in stock is useless for Masks, or anything else in the PPE range. My sailmakers shops smallest machine is a Bernina 217, I don’t think you want his Adler 166 sewing your masks!

Correct Materials are the real issue in Manufacturing the desired product.

20 hours ago, Secret Experiment said:

Companies that normally make CPAP devices for sleep apnoea are now converting to make basic ventilators.

Hopefully not too many components need to come from China.......

US Industry will rise up to the task, I have no doubt.

The real question is......................... Is this a wake up call to the States to stop with the red tape that hampers business from starting and staying in the US. Kalifornia has chased out more manufacturing business that it has invited in. I hope Knuckle Head Newsom see's, and seizes, the opportunity to help California bring back business. Also, Congress must fix the Tax Code to keep Business in the US.

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On 3/21/2020 at 12:28 AM, ordkhntr said:

Providence Healthcare/Hospitals has asked for volunteers to sew masks. My wife works for them. Masks are 4 layers of fabric, each piece about 17"x15" before the pleats are sewn in. She has made a few so far just for our grown  kids who work in schools and a few for us. It takes a bit more time than what she thought and she does a LOT of sewing. It's her #1 hobby. If anyone wants the specs for yourself or others msg me and I'll get you the 

For those that asked, here is a copy to the link to the Providence Health System call for masks.

https://www.providence.org/lp/100m-masks

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21 hours ago, CFS Klopas said:

Some of us have n95 masks left over from painting or sanding projects. I hate to give workers used gear, but it might be appropriate if you hear about a collection in your area.

I work for Providence and they are going to be recycling masks with a company that has a four day turn around, so it may still be useful. 

 

There is a significant jump in usage of materials with this outbreak....

 

"In 2019, across our 51 hospitals and 1,000 clinics, 250,000 masks were used. In 2020, at just one of our hospitals, 250,000 masks were used in a three-month period. Moving to extended use and reuse allows us to conserve PPE and critical resources now, before they are completely gone. It also buys additional time for new PPE resources to be physically manufactured and delivered to our sites of care."

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On 3/21/2020 at 5:49 PM, CFS Klopas said:

Some of us have n95 masks left over from painting or sanding projects. I hate to give workers used gear, but it might be appropriate if you hear about a collection in your area.

I had an unused box of 10 of N95 dust masks from my last haulout. I took them to the local hospital. They were ecstatic to get them even though they are industrial grade with a exhale valve. I highly recommend  checking in your shops and lockers for any unused masks. Every bit helps.

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Big grocery store around here (Mothers) STILL has no masks for their workers.   Crazy.

There must be several thousand shoppers a day at that store.  Spoke with two workers this morning and they are burned out with stress - much of it centered around no face protection.

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6 hours ago, Great White said:

I had an unused box of 10 of N95 dust masks from my last haulout. I took them to the local hospital. They were ecstatic to get them even though they are industrial grade with a exhale valve. I highly recommend  checking in your shops and lockers for any unused masks. Every bit helps.

Red Cross here asks for them, nationwide, they collect and clean them. every last one counts. To their surprise people even had ventilators at home for private care.
And remorse full hoarders who came to their senses, one guy had 100 litres of hand-sanitizer.
I only had 3 masks, 1 pair of glasses and 9 pair gloves. They are coming to collect them.
They probably will not go to hospitals but elderly care homes or GP's. New stuff goes to hospitals.

And for home nmaking masks here one company that gives you material for 15 masks, you make them and you keep 5 for yourself if you want.
They had the right material in house as they produce filter machines.

In Dutch, but google translate works, some good info;
https://www.ecotaxfiltertechniek.nl/crowdmask/

 

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gessh....there is a shortage of N-95, unless you are a HC provider or first responder or work is required to support society.....ANYthing your wear across your face, give common sense a try, is better than nothing...it is more important that you clean everything you touch coming and going from your car into your home and then wash your hands regularly at home and clean everything you touch going to and fro in your home.... 

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On March 22, 2020 at 8:25 PM, blunderfull said:

Big grocery store around here (Mothers) STILL has no masks for their workers.   Crazy.

There must be several thousand shoppers a day at that store.  Spoke with two workers this morning and they are burned out with stress - much of it centered around no face protection.

I wonder if Minney's has any. 

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China has millions of masks available.  Now.

One airplane flight away.  Or even DHL from Hong Kong.

This is a political issue only.  Not a manufacturing one.

I have been offered masks for free for my company by private Chinese factories as a gesture of goodwill. Yes yes yes... people will pontificate on the mask quality, have at it. 

Honestly I have been reluctant to post this, since it should probably be in PA, and I don't go there.

 

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