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sailerjim

Help! Henderson 30 vs FT-10

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Hello guys I need help with this.

So I have been looking to purchase a sport boat and seemed to have it narrowed down to the Henderson 30 and the FT-10.  Things I like about the Henderson is that it seems to be a pure sport boat built solidly (or so I have been told).  The only thing that I am not sure about is the ability to overnight on the boat. I realize neither will provide luxury but the FT-10 seems to have a little more room down below perhaps making it slightly more comfortable for overnights. That being said I really do not want to sacrifice much performance wise which makes me think I should just suck it up and take the Henderson but I am looking for input. I would definitely like to take the boat on some extended trips with some ocean sailing. I understand that the Henderson takes a crew to manage her in heavier conditions?? Also any general comments on either of these boats would be much appreciated. I would also consider the Farr 30 but there just does not seem to be any around me whatsoever. Currently the Henderson is definitely in the lead. The main use for the boat would racing and some overnight trips biggest priority would be speed. I'd also be open to any other suggestions of boats that have the same or better performance in that relative price range.    

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Funny.  You're from NS and you claim there's no Farr 30s around?  Halifax has the largest fleet in the world, from what I've heard for a local Farr 30 owner.  That said, the Farr is a bridge too far for most of us mortals and from what I've ready, the Tiger is your best choice. Just so happens @Editor has a mythical unicorn one for sale today!

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I'm helping a buddy work on his new to him Farr 30 and it has me wanting an FT 7.5.  As much as the Farr 30 is cool, it requires six to race it (I'm helping him to convert it to a bowsprit boat) and the accommodations are bare.  I really like the idea of a retractable keel and something more family friendly.  By the way, have you looked at the GP26?  There's one or two for sale on the US East Coast.  

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I've had the opportunity to sail on both. here are my thoughts:

The FT10 is a much better boat if you're planning on sailing shorthanded or cruising. You can make the FT10 comfortable for a long weekend.   Compared to the Hendo the FT10 has a simpler rig, with non-overlapping headsails and a single backstay (as opposed to runners).  You also gain get some maintenance benefits from having a ten year newer boat. The non-overlapping jibs last longer, and you only need two of them (Light, Heavy).   The boat's narrow beam and deep keel make it less sensitive to crew weight than the Henderson. Most FT10s race with a crew of 6-7.

With that said, the Henderson is generally considered to have better build quality and is slightly faster in most conditions. My PHRF board rates the Henderson 30 3sec/mi faster than the Henderson 30. The Henderson 30's Genoa gives it a big edge upwind in <8kt, and the articulating sprit is great for running deeper angles when you aren't quite planing. The boat is tender and needs 8 crew hiking hard to do well when it's breezy.

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2 minutes ago, timz3818 said:

I've had the opportunity to sail on both. here are my thoughts:

The FT10 is a much better boat if you're planning on sailing shorthanded or cruising. You can make the FT10 comfortable for a long weekend.   Compared to the Hendo the FT10 has a simpler rig, with non-overlapping headsails and a single backstay (as opposed to runners).  You also gain get some maintenance benefits from having a ten year newer boat. The non-overlapping jibs last longer, and you only need two of them (Light, Heavy).   The boat's narrow beam and deep keel make it less sensitive to crew weight than the Henderson. Most FT10s race with a crew of 6-7.

With that said, the Henderson is generally considered to have better build quality and is slightly faster in most conditions. My PHRF board rates the Henderson 30 3sec/mi faster than the Henderson 30. The Henderson 30's Genoa gives it a big edge upwind in <8kt, and the articulating sprit is great for running deeper angles when you aren't quite planing. The boat is tender and needs 8 crew hiking hard to do well when it's breezy.

Agree with everything, but you forgot to add that following.

Since Hendo spar is bendy and the shrouds through the swept back spreaders are led to inboard chainplates, PITA running backstays are required to keep the mast tuned.

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I've sailed over 20k miles on a Henderson, probably over 5k miles on the Tiger. Like them both. TIMZ pretty much tells you what you need to know. My only additions are that I like the cockpit better on the Hendo. Not sure how much maintenance benefits you get on the newer Tiger. Hendo build was pretty good. Hendo is a bit easier to trailer and rig if that is in your plans.  Tiger does have more room down below. Hendo has a better forepeak for flopping in. Both boats have hard (fiberglass) cushions. 

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Just out of curiosity, what would have the edge in a round the buoys race for crossing the line first a Henderson 30 or Farr 30?

 

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1 hour ago, sailerjim said:

Just out of curiosity, what would have the edge in a round the buoys race for crossing the line first a Henderson 30 or Farr 30?

 

Upwind the boats are very close in sub 8kts. The Farr is a little heavier to as the breeze moves up a well sailed Farr in the past has been a little quicker. To get the Farr to do that though is a lot of work as they are very technical and physical boats. Off the wind in a WL race the Farr will be hard to beat with a Hendo as it is still a symmetrical kite and can do the same BS at a much deeper angle.

I have sailed both and they are great boats but hands down the hendo build quality is much better. I will say that if you plan to race against mostly symmetrical kite boats and would be new to an A sail boat that I would think you would be doing better with the Farr quicker in a symmetrical config.

I have raced a against a few FT10s and we seem to always be ahead of them over the line and on corrected too with our Hendo

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48 minutes ago, gossmanl said:

Upwind the boats are very close in sub 8kts. The Farr is a little heavier to as the breeze moves up a well sailed Farr in the past has been a little quicker. To get the Farr to do that though is a lot of work as they are very technical and physical boats. Off the wind in a WL race the Farr will be hard to beat with a Hendo as it is still a symmetrical kite and can do the same BS at a much deeper angle.

I have sailed both and they are great boats but hands down the hendo build quality is much better. I will say that if you plan to race against mostly symmetrical kite boats and would be new to an A sail boat that I would think you would be doing better with the Farr quicker in a symmetrical config.

I have raced a against a few FT10s and we seem to always be ahead of them over the line and on corrected too with our Hendo

Did you say you have/race a hendo? Do you dry sail it? I would be keeping it in water and wondering if that would pose any issues? 

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1 minute ago, sailerjim said:

Did you say you have/race a hendo? Do you dry sail it? I would be keeping it in water and wondering if that would pose any issues? 

I do and it live the entire season in the water on Lake Erie. We have not had any issue with it being in the water. We put on a vivid bottom when we got the boat and it has held up great. Our club does have a single point crane large enough to pull the boat so it does get cleaned at least once a month. These boats do single point very well with a bridal strap to the keel stringer and some guide lines on deck.

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2 hours ago, gossmanl said:

I have raced a against a few FT10s and we seem to always be ahead of them over the line and on corrected too with our Hendo

Pictures; or it didn't happen unless you were racing against Lake Erie underachievers.

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42 minutes ago, sailerjim said:

Did you say you have/race a hendo? Do you dry sail it? I would be keeping it in water and wondering if that would pose any issues? 

Sailor Jim,

Hendos are vinylester boats, They can be wet sailed. No big issues. Also foam cored. Another plus. Used to own a Hendo. Weighed 4050 # the day I bought it. Weighed about the same 20 years later. Boat was wet 6 months a year.

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My buddy took the inboard diesel out of his Farr 30 to shave some weight. We're building a custom outboard bracket and he bought a 6hp Tohatsu. Apparently that weight savings makes quite a difference.  

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Just now, WCB said:

My buddy took the inboard diesel out of his Farr 30 to shave some weight. We're building a custom outboard bracket and he bought a 6hp Tohatsu. Apparently that weight savings makes quite a difference.  

I always thought it was interesting that the Farr's have the inboard diesel. I wondered if someone had ever taken it out to swap to a more light outbored. I would imagine there would be a big difference like you said.

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You will like the outboard in the well on the Hendo and FT. Pushes the boats well and stays in the water in rough seas. Most guys put a 9.9 in them which works well. I put a 15 hp two cycle. Works even better.

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4 hours ago, sailerjim said:

I always thought it was interesting that the Farr's have the inboard diesel. I wondered if someone had ever taken it out to swap to a more light outbored. I would imagine there would be a big difference like you said.

He got the idea from one or two others that had done the job before. One Farr 30 from England that I know of. A little muscle to move the outboard below to where the diesel was and he saves about 500# I believe it was.  

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18 hours ago, WCB said:

My buddy took the inboard diesel out of his Farr 30 to shave some weight. We're building a custom outboard bracket and he bought a 6hp Tohatsu. Apparently that weight savings makes quite a difference.  

the only thing you lose is the ability to motor in slop, and longer deliveries can be a pain in the ass, and unless your outboard supports it you lose an alternator to recharge batteries. an owner made that change to a Columbia 30-2, removing the 1gm10 for a 6hp outboard with a special bracket so he could get it on when it was sloppy out or in the dark with minimum fuss.

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12 hours ago, WCB said:

He got the idea from one or two others that had done the job before. One Farr 30 from England that I know of. A little muscle to move the outboard below to where the diesel was and he saves about 500# I believe it was.  

230 lbs for the 1gm10,
66 lbs for the SD20,
84 lbs for 12 gal of diesel
=380 lbs
- 60 lbs for a 6hp long shaft
=~320 lb weight savings.

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Back in 2011 I was making the same decision: FT 10 or Henderson 30. I ended up not finding an agreeable price on the Hendo and bought the FT 10. In hindsight I am not sure I would have been ready to own and sail the Henderson competitively at that time. It is a pretty athletic and complicated boat to sail (no one has mentioned the rudder bearings). The FT 10 is simpler to sail and own and only slightly slower than the Henderson. However, if you have a skilled, athletic crew the Henderson would certainly be more rewarding and provide endless options for tweaking and optimizing. 

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57 minutes ago, ryley said:

230 lbs for the 1gm10,
66 lbs for the SD20,
84 lbs for 12 gal of diesel
=380 lbs
- 60 lbs for a 6hp long shaft
=~320 lb weight savings.

Still a good weight savings.  It did seem like it was lighter than the 500lb he was told as he pulled the motor out himself with a come-along tied to the ceiling beams.  Sketchy. 

When it's sloppy...put up a sail.

He's using solar and shore power for the batteries.

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For short sprints in and out of the harbor, an outboard would be fine.

Personally, outboards have always been the weak link of any program I've been a part of.

Plain and simple, outboards can be hard to start. They don't store well. They leak fluids all over the place and worst of all, they are back breaking to move and mount especially when the boat is in choppy seas. We've impaled at least 3 cockpit floors doing this on other boats. If the outboard was in a well ala Henderson or Melges 32, it's much better however there still is the issue of unreliability.

We LOVE the inboard 1gm10 diesel on our boat. These little Yanmars were originally made for water pumps on the rice fields of Japan. There would run 24/7 and get buried in mud while still doing their job the whole time.

With the point to point regattas we do, semi long deliveries back home are part of the game. I would not have anything else other than my trusty little diesel and saildrive.

If the engine on the Farr 30 is toast and in need of replacement, I get it. Replace w/outboard to save money and weight.

If the engine is fine, I'd say it's a big compromise on an otherwise great boat with higher pedigree then the FT and Hendo.  

 

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40 minutes ago, WCB said:

Still a good weight savings.  It did seem like it was lighter than the 500lb he was told as he pulled the motor out himself with a come-along tied to the ceiling beams.  Sketchy. 

When it's sloppy...put up a sail.

He's using solar and shore power for the batteries.

I'm not saying it's not a good weight savings, and I can see it for some people being a good option. I'm sure he got the boat rated with the new weight too. For me, saving three hundred pounds to give up the convenience of that diesel isn't worth it. There are plenty of times in Mass Bay when it's sloppy and dead so putting up a sail wouldn't make a difference. And for me, there's something comforting about knowing that a little extra thrust is just a push-button away :) Your mileage may vary, and I'm not knocking it.

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4 hours ago, ryley said:

230 lbs for the 1gm10,
66 lbs for the SD20,
84 lbs for 12 gal of diesel
=380 lbs
- 60 lbs for a 6hp long shaft
=~320 lb weight savings.

Please add the weight of gasoline required to equal the run distance of 12 g of diesel to your computations

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Longy, that's a good question. 12 gallons in the Lumbo gets me pretty far. less than .4 gal/hour at 3000 rpm gives me ~ 7 knots. that's 30 hours of motoring (more actually) and a nominal range of 210 nm.

According to boat-fuel-economy.com, most 6 hp burn a bit more than 0.5 gal @5500rpm, but I have no idea how fast a 6 can push my boat or a Farr 30 which weighs about 1000 lbs less than mine. Needless to say that even on an even speed level, you have to carry nearly .25 gal/hour more than I do with the diesel but gas weighs less per gallon...

But again, for the racer who is only going a couple of miles to a race course and isn't travelling very far, the outboard solution isn't a bad one. I wouldn't want to do the DownEast Challenge or the Block Island race with just an outboard, or for that matter deliver the boat from boston to mystic like I plan to in June for off soundings, but it's the choices we make, right?

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230 lbs for the 1gm10,
66 lbs for the SD20,
84 lbs for 12 gal of diesel
=380 lbs
- 60 lbs for a 6hp long shaft
=~320 lb weight savings.

Does that include the mount?   What about a 45lbs+ starting battery, wiring, controls, etc.

Longshafts 4-strokes are 53-59lbs plus tank.  

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I would just like to see a comparison that actually includes ALL the parts in the weights tables, and compare similar performance. IE, don't tell me throwing out the diesel for a Torquedo makes for an even comparison.

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I think whatever boat you buy, Hendo, FT or Mumm you'll be happy. All three hit the fun meter pretty hard if your coming from a more traditional type of boat. Let us know what you get and why.

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Hands down the Farr30 is the most rewarding, and fun boat I have ever sailed. The difference from most other boats is the huge power and feel and the response when you do good and the pain when the trim is off. It is a small slave ship as it requires hard work to go fast. The boat is also simple with no runners and none overlapping jib
 

All boats here would make you happy... I'm really happy with our Farr30. 

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I have owned a Farr 30 and a Henderson 30 and my favorite boat of all time is the Farr 30.   It is a great boat. Outboard is peace of mind and a lot easier on your back moving an outboard from transom to down below. It was always a challenge doing it will heeled over. Runners are a pain on the Hendo. It gives a crew member another job, but one of the most important.  The Farr is much easier to drive then the hendo. The rudder shape is much better. You could easily man handle the rudder to get the boat to go where you wanted it too. The hendo no way and I had a M32 rudder on it. The Farr 30 you can sail short handed in light air. Have done it with 3 people and won races.

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All three boats are great; IMHO, the Henod requires every single of the 7 or 8 crew members to know exactly what they are doing. The Mumm is is very similar. I think the FT is more forgiving from a skill set required from the crew stand point.

Probably the Hendo is the easiest when it comes down to logistics

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I own a Farr 30 here in Nova Scotia, there are 5 Farr 30's in NS, 3 in PEI, 1 in NB and QC. We race about 4 one designs a year. Halifax, Charlottetown, and Chester.

I know of one FT-10 in Halifax, NS, and there are no Hendersons in Atlantic Canada that I know of. 

If you don't have any interest in one design then I think both options are great. 

Pro Con, in my opinion, is the following:

Henderson 30 has an overlapping jib so that a huge negative for me with quick sail degradation over non-overlapping jibs. The motor setup and casket rudder look like huge pluses.

Flying Tiger has a limited sail inventory I believe jib, main, and one kite. This keeps the costs down and is great for PHRF. Dragging the motor out and mounting it on the stern is a huge negative for me. 

Farr 30 requires more sails with 3 jibs and 2-3 kites. I like the inboard diesel and overall the boat is great for one design and PHRF racing.   

All boats will want 7 people to go fast. 

You can send me a DM if you want more info on the local scene. 

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Can't comment 're Hendo as we do not have any in Australia.  

Have spent last 12 years racing is Tiger in a mixed PHF fleet in Sydney's Super30's. 

Fleet varies year to year bot normally 3 or 4 Tigers and 2or 3 F30's plus an assortment of Melges32's various outright sports boats plus various J boats who would like to be Sports yachts but can't match it down wind.

Would you believe that the consistently  fastest is a 20 year-old pimped Hick30 by Robert Hick from Melbourne Australia. 

Various boats have tried to take on this fleet over the years but came up short.  A couple of Mc32's ie modern wedge shaped 3o foooters spent a couple of seasons trying to revolutionise the Super30 scene without any success. 

So really nothing at all has happened in the 30 foolish area for 20 years. Still seems like narrow beamed roundish hulls have got it their way in Round the cans and inner harbour passage racing. 

Which brings me to F30 versus FT10.

If you want pretty there is nothing prettier than the F30 in full flight on Sydner Harbour.

If you want comfort for overnight stays the Tiger wins hands down.

If you want performance there is nothing in it. If the course favours long square runs the F30 in's with their symmetrical kites are hard to match although the tigers now carrying 125 sq metre Runners are coming back into their own.

If the course favours nice angles the F30's can not match the Tiger's AP Assos.

A few F30's have tried adding bow spirits and running As so kites but so far none have proved successful.  I suspect their rig is to far forward to make use of the Asso.

So if it comes down to a F30 or Tiger go for the tiger you will save money and have a better all round boat.As for crew size any serious Super30 will need 7 or more crew. Having said that we did have a successful short handed 2 up series kites and all in the Tiger a few years ago.

 

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I have a Fareast28R that has some room for accommodation and a head below. If weekending, you can make a lightweight, folding subfloor installation and some air mattresses to make it comfy. The boat is fast upwind as well as off with a rating of about 58-60 depending on where it sails-fresh water vs salt. Rig is not overpowered and the main is reef able so it can be sailed short handed Offshore and it is very stable. 
 

It’s a great choice for the buck new and mine is going to go up for sale soon at a good price for the buyer, more than either of your present choices, however. Mine is a 2015. The Hendo I saw East Coast is a 1997 and $30,000 and all the FT10’s about the same.

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7 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

I have a Fareast28R that has some room for accommodation and a head below. If weekending, you can make a lightweight, folding subfloor installation and some air mattresses to make it comfy. The boat is fast upwind as well as off with a rating of about 58-60 depending on where it sails-fresh water vs salt. Rig is not overpowered and the main is reef able so it can be sailed short handed Offshore and it is very stable. 
 

It’s a great choice for the buck new and mine is going to go up for sale soon at a good price for the buyer, more than either of your present choices, however. Mine is a 2015. The Hendo I saw East Coast is a 1997 and $30,000 and all the FT10’s about the same.

O please buy an ad.  While I think FE28 is sexy outside, its pure painbox moving around inside.  Nothing ergonomic at all.

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O I’ll be sure to buy one here when I do Get ready to sell it. I’ve advertised here and it’s a great platform
 

Of course without a sole and internal bulkhead framing it’s not a Catalina 42 but I could Camp/sleep in there with a few crew and on the deck with a boom tent.

Hope OP gets something he enjoys.

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Anyone know where I can find a Henderson 30 Trailer?  Going to use it for the yard to launch from the club crane.  

Appreciate any leads.

Cheers!

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You might try looking for a used Melges 32 trailer.  They are very similar in set up and might be able to convert to the hendo especially if it is just for yard usage.

 

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We bought a Hendo about a year ago. Extremely fast downwind. 18+ knots downwind on the 2020 Hook race on Lake Michigan. Absolute speed demon. Love the articulating sprit. Runners are a pain but make a big difference in main trim and headstay tension upwind. The boat needs lots of crew to be competitive upwind, however. Solid build. We are very happy with ours so far! 

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IT seemed like the Hendo also had less pinched aft quarters than the Farr 30. Wider stern. 

601F1B21-E4CB-4D5F-9A0A-C53206898726.jpeg

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