lydia

New WLYDO Project - Gentlemen's Powerboat Cruiser

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On 4/13/2020 at 12:41 PM, Autonomous said:

Yes!  A functional cockpit!  Bring a crabpot or pole and catch dinner. Get in or out on either side. Stretch out in your folding lounges and more.  All without crawling over furniture and having to move cushions about.

Mr. Tanton how ever did you come up with this radical design concept?

 

 

 

 

Radical Design Concept? Not really, simply a boat that I would not mind to be seen around.

Kimbottles. Thanks for the compliment. I know that you have good taste.

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3 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Radical Design Concept? Not really, simply a boat that I would not mind to be seen around.

 

 

The radical design quip was a jab at the previous boat without a practical cockpit.

Your boat is fine.

My apologies for the confusion.

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The problem with the Bolger series is that they are completely flat bottom boats.

Flat might seem easier to build, but it also means it is heavier than necessary. Flat is not just ugly, it is also heavy.

This means you get a small benefit once, while building. But you pay for that with an overweight, ugly, and evil handling vessel forever. That is a bad trade, in my opinion.

Using foam-fiberglass instead of ply means achieving compound surfaces is not hard. Similar framing for shape is required with ply or foam.

As an experienced, famous, well known, successful builder with mostly repeat customers told me: "Designers come in all the time with ugly shapes that they think will save money. The shape of the boat has essentially zero impact on the total cost. The designers just don't understand, because they don't spend time in the yard."

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On 4/11/2020 at 10:51 AM, ProaSailor said:

It's worth mentioning the Tombolo 28 by Greg Siewert that is featured on page 106 of the current issue of Wooden Boat (free!)

WoodenBoat May/June issue free download
https://www.woodenboat.com/free-digital-issue-woodenboat

There is also a 34 foot version (10' beam) but despite the erroneous URL, the 28 footer is here:
https://www.siewertdesign.com/Portfolio/page/tombolo_34.html

  • Length Overall : 28'-6"
  • Beam : 9'-0"
  • Draft : 1'-5"
  • Displacement (1/2 load) : 5,600lbs
  • Power : 115hp std. 150hp max.
  • Speed : std power-14-17 kts. (cruise) 21-24kts. (top)

stacks-image-d0cef2e.thumb.jpg.f1651cc12bb2139f1ffea4c22d87e574.jpg

stacks-image-f044aa3.thumb.jpg.172d1fa7c956b5284beb0b60b22fd4f8.jpg

ProaSailor, thanks for pointing out the erroneous URL.

That link has since been fixed; http://www.siewertdesign.com/Portfolio/Production_Boat_Designs/tombolo_28.html

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7 hours ago, carcrash said:

The problem with the Bolger series is that they are completely flat bottom boats.

Flat might seem easier to build, but it also means it is heavier than necessary. Flat is not just ugly, it is also heavy.

This means you get a small benefit once, while building. But you pay for that with an overweight, ugly, and evil handling vessel forever. That is a bad trade, in my opinion.

Using foam-fiberglass instead of ply means achieving compound surfaces is not hard. Similar framing for shape is required with ply or foam.

As an experienced, famous, well known, successful builder with mostly repeat customers told me: "Designers come in all the time with ugly shapes that they think will save money. The shape of the boat has essentially zero impact on the total cost. The designers just don't understand, because they don't spend time in the yard."

Bolger did a lot more than just flat-bottomed boats, or boats intended for amateurs. For example, he designed some schooners that could take their place beside any classics, and some Egg Harbor sportfishers that were very successful.

The flat-bottomed boats he designed were intended to be home built relatively quickly and easily by people for whom strong, curved, complex angled carpentry was completely intimidating and foreign. The ones I've actually spent some time with on the water are not evil-handling at all, either.

There are a gazillion boats out there, but they all have a combination of compromises and outright flaws. The reason to design a new boat is to try and do better than what you can get on Craigslist. But to avoid the flaws, you need to know as much as possible about what's already been done. Starting from a blank sheet of paper, with no for-knowledge.... as so many people like to proclaim they're doing... is a fool's errand IMHO

FB- Doug

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The Bolger Slicer is one of my favorite motorboats. The one in the photo was shortened from 26 to 22 feet (think I got that right) and was the first of a series of them built and used daily in BC. They are single chined and quite narrow, yet stable and have really good handling. This one's name is "longfellow" and was built in 3 weeks about 15 years age. 

DSC03363.jpeg

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In light of the current sh't, I thought I would show you this.

This is how the doctors comes to you in Norway's fjords. Boat is called Eyr Bremstein, they have four of these, I think.

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On 4/15/2020 at 3:36 PM, ProaSailor said:

Since you asked... a single 2D image is not a boat.  The roof overhang forward looks excessive and the swooped up aft edge doesn't appeal to me.

Challenge accepted.

Mind you, I'm an amateur and do this for the fun of it :)

We'll see how this goes, might take some time

mboat.jpg

Oh, and one more thing: The swoop stays ;)

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22 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Oh, and one more thing: The swoop stays ;)

Better!  What CAD are you using to get 3D?  What's the beam (waterline and overall, at the sheer)?

As I see it, the only way the swoop can shed water is if the roof is saddle-shaped, a gentle hyperboloid of some kind?

Hyperboloid.png.8583da6ff5438aa5dd4b60318ff7ece6.png

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As long as you’re shedding water you might as well collect it. A gentleman has multiple uses for water 

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She's a bit too big and serious for the design brief that started this thread, but might be of interest:  Sam Devlin's Blue Fin 48.  The concept is a 35ish foot boat stretched out to make her more economical and seaworthy.

https://devlinboat.com/blue-fin-48/

BlueFin48-featuredimg-1080x630.thumb.jpg.e61e9eccb7bcfee91a7e7b14aa92437d.jpgBlueFin48Top.thumb.jpg.9d84bd589b73447ef2115f8c1b1cfab0.jpg

 

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4 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

Better!  What CAD are you using to get 3D?  What's the beam (waterline and overall, at the sheer)?

As I see it, the only way the swoop can shed water is if the roof is saddle-shaped, a gentle hyperboloid of some kind?

Hyperboloid.png.8583da6ff5438aa5dd4b60318ff7ece6.png

Exactly, the idea is to have any water to flow to the side, not to the back at any given angle.

I use Delftship. Not very fancy, but it's ok for amateurs. I'm also more into 2D plans, but I clearly see the advantage regarding complex shapes like this roof.

 

mboat2.jpg.png

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Sam also has some really great 30ish footers that are very attractive too. Search Sam Devlin boats.

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8 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

Sam also has some really great 30ish footers that are very attractive too. Search Sam Devlin boats.

Thanks! Devlin Surf Scooter 26.

I love it.

Prize%203.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Thanks! Devlin Surf Scooter 26.

I love it.

Prize%203.jpg

And I am very happy to report Sam is a very nice guy too!

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Sam has a style that one soon learns to spot, even at a distance.

I did a collaborative effort with him about a year ago on a couple of boats. Here is the 27'er that was slated to be a solar powered water taxi that we had hoped would become popular on the lakes and shores of the Seattle area.

SS 27 FP 32.tif

SS 27 FP 32.jpg

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Here is a second derivation of the 27 into a 3 8'er as SS33.thumb.jpg.4bc6d169f3962be9daa1e3fa1f352b36.jpga cruiser with a nice comfy PNW interior. 

SS20.jpg

SS22.jpg

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Has anyone ever seen a price for the POGO LOXO 32?

 

I have been searching and cannot seem to find one listed anywhere?

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Rasp, not trying to be a PITA, but how does one get to the bow or the midship cleat on the Solar Sal 38, given minimal side decks, overhanging rooftop and the bulwark that extends further back than seems necessary?

The concept is interesting, but there are some practical access issues.

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On 4/15/2020 at 5:20 PM, Steam Flyer said:

...snip/

The dog became so fond of this little boat the he wanted to go rowing around in it even when we were docked.

FB- Doug

Oh come on!

You can't just leave that there and not follow up with pictures???

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2 minutes ago, Black Sox said:
On 4/15/2020 at 12:20 PM, Steam Flyer said:

The dog became so fond of this little boat the he wanted to go rowing around in it even when we were docked.

FB- Doug

Oh come on!

You can't just leave that there and not follow up with pictures???

Careful what you ask for... here's a series of my favorites.

post-30927-127176744791_thumb.jpg

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One of my all-time favorites... navigation in the fog, by dog

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I'm including this one to show how much he anticipated going for a dinghy ride

P1110214-c.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And one with the whole family, in the dinghy (I'm the one taking the picture, closest thing to a dinghy accident we had because I was trying to lean back far enough to get a good photo)

P1110123.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But back to the virtues of the dinghy... as you can see, it's stable enough for a 70 lb dog to jump up unexpectedly on the thwart and not capsize. Good load capacity. Easily propelled, if alone and using my "good oars" (which we didn't take cruising, they're 8 1/2 feet with relatively delicate spoon blades) I can literally make it plane. I used it to set out kedge anchors twice, with a 45 anchor on the stern seat and the rode trailing over the transom (tended and paid out by my wife), into strong wind & chop.

You may notice the full-size cleats. I don't know why dinghies have tiny cleats but trust me, big ones are much better. They also serve as carrying handles.

Faults- it is too slippery in the water. It is very stable but it tends to scoot out from underfoot when you're climbing in or out at a dock.

Note: Mrs Steam and myself don't have kids, so instead we have literally thousands of pics of us sailing/cruising/rowing/hiking with one of our series of dogs. Not so many with nieces and nephews, but some of those too. So, be careful what you ask for!

FB- Doug

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On 3/23/2020 at 1:49 PM, kimbottles said:

Another very interesting vessel! (The Pogo powerboat)

 

Very cool - but the French concept of "berths" cracks me up.

We chartered a Beneteau First 36.7 in French Polynesia years ago that was placarded for 10 passengers. With 4 of us onboard and unpacked, we nearly fell off the boat laughing.

Maybe if I had brought a Speedo (wife - "No!") we would have made room. ;-)

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For Gentlemen more on the Farmer side.  Aluminum 40'

scan0002.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Tanton Y_M said:

For Gentlemen more on the Farmer side.  Aluminum 40'

scan0002.jpg

Nice!

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That looks like a great boat. It looks dead easy to build, long enough to be efficient, and lots of volume below.

I like that the bow kind of gives the middle finger to normalcy, but wonder if there's not some way to complete the hull lines and still have the little cockpit in the nose. I think I could like it as is, but I think it might be a deal-breaker for some. Is it road legal?

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Mr Tanton, 

Thank you for sharing the pictures of your boat above.  As someone who has thought about making the 'great loop' part of my retirement plan, I am of course interested in boat that is specifically tailored to that activity.  Well done! 

Please do not take this as criticism or in any ways negative - I am simply curious.  I would be grateful if you could clarify two items with regards to your plan:

1. Is there an allowance for a dinghy?  I know I have banged on about this quite a bit on this forum, but I think (as do some others here) that extended cruising requires a dinghy that can be quickly and easily launched and retrieved.  How does that work with your design?  

2. Do I read the accommodation plan correctly that there isn't a closed, private sleeping cabin?  Again, I think that important for long-term cruising.  

Thank you for your valuable inputs to this group.  

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Bugsy.

1) Please find the deck plan.

20 Closed private cabin. This is the 10th. boat I have designed for the same client who, as you can see has very personal ideas. But I agree that a private cabin is important but hard to implement on this model.

300-pdf-dck-08 (1).jpg

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Spotted near Seal Cove/Horseshoe Cove, aw hell, you know where I mean, around the corner from Buck"s Harbor,  ME last fall. 

IMG_1005.jpg.95c6eac5feff352c5f11113999ea09cf.jpgIMG_1007.jpg.05afe976797ef1de0b204b59424d5ce0.jpgIMG_1011.jpg.5aa0291fda0c4fcebd5b5d022a174c2e.jpgIMG_1012.jpg.984cf7617016083f916cb5a9f814ebba.jpg

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4 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Bugsy.

1) Please find the deck plan.

20 Closed private cabin. This is the 10th. boat I have designed for the same client who, as you can see has very personal ideas. But I agree that a private cabin is important but hard to implement on this model.

 

My way of thinking at this point of my life is that the boat is my private cabin.

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2 hours ago, Autonomous said:

My way of thinking at this point of my life is that the boat is my private cabin.

True, but even at 60, I like to snuggle with my bride...

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On 4/13/2020 at 10:20 PM, Tanton Y_M said:

 -Search. Trailerable 28'. TYD#977.

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Sorry work intervened Mr Tanton

We might have a winner.

Plenty of shade, open plan, sharp look.

Might have to work on the weight but we will see.

some other great looking boats here but this one looks the most practical for my needs.

Special mention to Matangi.

Also the Atkin Hope is special as well.

 

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A friend's Devlin 20' Surf Scoter in the San Juans.  Skipper is 5'3", she and the boat are pretty darned cute.

IMG_5340.jpeg

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On 3/23/2020 at 5:10 PM, kimbottles said:

Looking at the interior pictures I posted of the Kernan 48, I realized I had never taken advantage of the wide angle photo feature in the iPhone 11.

And given that it is a very nice day here today I went down and tried it out.

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I was thinking Real Estate agent - 'round these parts we call them "maggots".

Beautiful boat, beautiful pics. Many happy commutes/cruises in her.

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1 hour ago, ALL@SEA said:

We were at a boat show and the gal that bought Mac was onboard one. The wife wants to look at it. I decline after explaining the boats fatal flaw but she takes the tour anyway. She comes back all enthralled, "You just have to see the interior!" I tell the wife again they sail like crap. Around we go. But it can go fast with the motor! Etc. etc.

Ugh, finally got her away from there.

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13 hours ago, rattus32 said:

I was thinking Real Estate agent - 'round these parts we call them "maggots".

Beautiful boat, beautiful pics. Many happy commutes/cruises in her.

Wide Angle makes her look very roomy.

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14 minutes ago, zenmasterfred said:

Wide Angle makes her look very roomy.

She is roomy Zen, very comfy for a couple. Nice layout. That Tim Kernan guy might be a sailboat designer, but he did a really great job on this 48 (apparently he did have some input from Michael Peters about what worked well on SARRISA.)

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On 4/27/2020 at 5:30 PM, Tanton Y_M said:

Bugsy.

1) Please find the deck plan.

20 Closed private cabin. This is the 10th. boat I have designed for the same client who, as you can see has very personal ideas. But I agree that a private cabin is important but hard to implement on this model.

300-pdf-dck-08 (1).jpg

Was she ever built? I don’t understand the “folding berth”. Does that reduce to a single so one can get to the locker aft of the berth?
 

Do the steps (ladder) in the shower collapse to give some room? I presume simply a curtain?

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On 4/26/2020 at 9:14 PM, Tanton Y_M said:

For Gentlemen more on the Farmer side.  Aluminum 40'

scan0002.jpg

Fantastic. I love this stuff from TY_M.

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Star kindler.

No shoes.

Turn of event. As I completed the drawings, I found on Yachtworld a Lobster Yacht that  I was involved with. I sent the link to the client and then, what you know?  He literally bought the boat sight unseen. Either way, I made money; and she is a good boat.

The normal access to the forward cockpit is to go on the flush deck. The removable ladder is there in case of fire, for example, preventing exit aft.

300RHpic2-JE24-10.jpg

6874492_20181015141651677_1_XLARGE(1) (1).jpg

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10 hours ago, Matagi said:

Koulmig-23-navigation-15.jpg

Koulmig 23, Francois Vivier design.  Not sure about the colour, but quite neat. It's for self-building in plywood.

http://www.vivierboats.com/produit/koulmig-23/

I am not comfortable about the way those topsides are planked, a single layer of ply strips relying on the skin for integrity...

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#257. Aluminum 48'-5"/ AlStrong method of construction.

257prview..jpg

257bowview.jpg

257ga.jpg

257quarterview.jpg

257sideview..jpg

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Posted (edited)

Made for you Innocent!

 

145-R01.jpg

145-R04A.jpg

Edited by Tanton Y_M
no reason

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11 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Made for you Innocent!

 

145-R01.jpg

145-R04A.jpg

Thanks. 
 

we have started discussion “what’s next”.  42’ sailboat is still doable by me and SWMBO but each year, it gets a touch more to handle without powered winches, a powered windlass, etc. trawlers are a good option and a good friend has a GB-42 but they are a big step. Something like Whitecap (I’ve volunteered to be adopted by Kim) would be great. You design is sleeker than the normal trawler but has most of the accomodations and features  

We’ll see where the next few years find us. 

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On 3/23/2020 at 9:44 AM, Rasputin22 said:

I think I have found the boat you are drooling over Kim. FEATHER.

image.png.0cf56eb007c220dbc3f11ad54d8d9ed1.png

p1180360.jpg?w=1200&h=

 

FEATHER

Now I don’t know much about Feather, I took the above photos while mooching about Milford Marina one afternoon. I’m pretty sure she is a lengthened Logan 33 replica, the in/outboard is another hint that she is a hybrid, so that would mean she is most likely glass & not a woody – BUT there is one feature that helps get her on ww………. now if you know Milford Marina  you’ll know that it is very tidal & the average owner built set-up for getting down & up to your boat would make the front cover of the  Health & Safety Journal. Not so with Feather, hers is a thing of beauty & its wood

IMO, Feather takes the sweepstakes under the original poster's design parameters. Just lose the I/O. I'd love to learn more about her.

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Just now, kinardly said:

IMO, Feather takes the sweepstakes under the original poster's design parameters. Just lose the I/O. I'd love to learn more about her.

Yeah the outboard is a bit of a sacrilege.

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On 5/21/2020 at 8:40 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

#257. Aluminum 48'-5"/ AlStrong method of construction.

257prview..jpg

257bowview.jpg

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I could see me in this with an unpainted aluminum hull and white superstructure, maybe when I turn 80. It would look very purposeful while still pleasing to the eye.

Sh*t! I'd have to start now to see it finished in time!

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On 5/22/2020 at 7:16 PM, Rasputin22 said:

Yeah the outboard is a bit of a sacrilege.

FIFY;)

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On 5/21/2020 at 11:40 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

#257. Aluminum 48'-5"/ AlStrong method of construction.

257prview..jpg

257bowview.jpg

257ga.jpg

257quarterview.jpg

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Very reminiscent of the wonderful C Raymond  Hunt Stingray. PJLCXuEW1JXawKu1tPGoOwvv1QyJE_QAsmhOoPc3

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Some time ago Logan was trying to penetrate the North American market. I briefly corresponded with them but ran screaming when I discovered their 33 did not have a self bailing cockpit. A shame I rejected so quickly without looking at the bigger picture. Live and learn.

My current power boat, a C-Dory 22, does not have a self bailing cockpit either. Like the Logan 33, C-Dorys have a great safety record. What you gain without a SB cockpit is a deeper, more secure cockpit with better motion. 

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Kinardly.

A little less time to build than the 47'.

eliboat.

A compliment that I did not think of!

247-R01A.jpg

247GA02.GIF

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On 5/29/2020 at 10:28 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

Kinardly.

A little less time to build than the 47'.

eliboat.

A compliment that I did not think of!

247-R01A.jpg

247GA02.GIF

247-R02A.jpg

247-R04A.jpg

Wow. Even a mast. Beautiful. All you really need.

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Wow.Thanks. Really cool. But I'll take it with just the small mast. Morning Glory blue topsides, almond house.

I think every boat should have a mast. A proper place to display flags or a steadying sail, help with the small boat, etc. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/grand-banks-eastbay-38-express-3617756/

Why hasn't anyone bought this yet? I was on it and thought it was a deal at $250,000. C. Raymond Hunt design. GB build. Great Vancouver boat.

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10 hours ago, no shoes said:

That is an absolutely beautiful boat and would make an excellent gentleman's cruiser. 

But 870 HP of engines?   That's a lot of horses that will take a lot of hay.  Does this boat achieve warp speed?  (The specs say max speed 29 kts.)

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11 hours ago, no shoes said:

Wow.Thanks. Really cool. But I'll take it with just the small mast. Morning Glory blue topsides, almond house.

I think every boat should have a mast. A proper place to display flags or a steadying sail, help with the small boat, etc. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/grand-banks-eastbay-38-express-3617756/

Why hasn't anyone bought this yet? I was on it and thought it was a deal at $250,000. C. Raymond Hunt design. GB build. Great Vancouver boat.

Just a guess, no one wants a sweet, rough water friendly quick cruiser with limited interior space. I mean, there’s no 2nd story man! What’s it sleep, 2 dwarves in a cramped forward berth, a head you can barely turn around in and no place to entertain strippers?

who care of it can cross to Bermuda on a bad day? It’s gotta scream bling man!

but seriously, I’d love a boat like that

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5 hours ago, Raz'r said:
17 hours ago, no shoes said:

Wow.Thanks. Really cool. But I'll take it with just the small mast. Morning Glory blue topsides, almond house.

I think every boat should have a mast. A proper place to display flags or a steadying sail, help with the small boat, etc. 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/grand-banks-eastbay-38-express-3617756/

Why hasn't anyone bought this yet? I was on it and thought it was a deal at $250,000. C. Raymond Hunt design. GB build. Great Vancouver boat.

Just a guess, no one wants a sweet, rough water friendly quick cruiser with limited interior space. I mean, there’s no 2nd story man! What’s it sleep, 2 dwarves in a cramped forward berth, a head you can barely turn around in and no place to entertain strippers?

who care of it can cross to Bermuda on a bad day? It’s gotta scream bling man!

but seriously, I’d love a boat like that

That's pretty much what we are looking at when sailboats are behind us.  Just prefer the hardtop version.  2 friends have GB 42 Classics (the trawler) and I have to admit the fly bridge is nice on a pretty day or in the harbor.  I'd prefer a sistership to Whitecap but she is a one off.  

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On 3/24/2020 at 8:45 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

That is a really cool boat for friends, but I have grown rather fond of sex and am not sure how it is supposed to work on that boat. Two single bunks is it???

I think it has been done.

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26 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I think it has been done.

OK - I am sure it can be done, but my wife doesn't want to get sent to the other side of the boat after. YMMV on that ;)

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26 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

OK - I am sure it can be done, but my wife doesn't want to get sent to the other side of the boat after. YMMV on that ;)

You could be a gentleman and leave her with the warm side and you move.

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2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

That's pretty much what we are looking at when sailboats are behind us.  Just prefer the hardtop version.  2 friends have GB 42 Classics (the trawler) and I have to admit the fly bridge is nice on a pretty day or in the harbor.  I'd prefer a sistership to Whitecap but she is a one off.  

jericho-exterior-photos-9.thumb.jpg.c4b6e3d295164b02b23d692dfca66dca.jpg

jericho-bunker-and-ellis.thumb.jpg.667287b44aef9e6b5e161bb57efc19ff.jpg

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Might be mighty capable, but color that ugly with a capitol "U"

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23 minutes ago, Crash said:

Might be mighty capable, but color that ugly with a capitol "U"

I'm sure it looks much better once it's underwater.

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do you leave the trailer attached in the water so you can drive the whole rig to the next haul out?

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15 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Beautiful, but does it come with a TMTF?

 

*Teak Maintenance Trust Fund. 
 

 

It was really just a demonstration of the lineage of that Eastbay 38. 

 

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I always thought this was a very nice version of a lobster boat. 

 

ACtC-3cKEZrbgB7DLGZ5lZ9ZDjc1LVoeVEhqO4nl

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3 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I always thought this was a very nice version of a lobster boat. 

 

ACtC-3cKEZrbgB7DLGZ5lZ9ZDjc1LVoeVEhqO4nl

Very Nice! What is it?

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2 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Very Nice! What is it?

Wesmac 50, I believe it has twin jet drives

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3 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

It was really just a demAnd a lovely one at that.  onstration of the lineage of that Eastbay 38. 

 

And a lovely one at that.  I can see and appreciate the functionality of a trawler and some have a rugged attractiveness.  I just need a boat that is nice to look at on the water and the "express style", if that's what you would call it, really has an appealing look.  Done well, the shape just works.  

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On 6/16/2020 at 9:14 PM, Crash said:

Might be mighty capable, but color that ugly with a capitol "U"

I don't know which is uglier, the boat or the truck. 

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On 6/17/2020 at 12:42 PM, kimbottles said:

Very Nice! What is it?

What sp543 said, a Westmac. 

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